SO...we should compare NGE to CU instead, is that it? Compare the "game that now exists that we don't want" to the "game that was changed in such a way as to make it worse and, by your words, make subscribers leave"? Okay, fine.
Compare it to "Pong"...when it comes to results, NGE FAILS.
Yes, it's not fair to compare NGE to SWG in its heyday...a heyday you just said was before CU. In other words, every time they mess with the gam...excuse me, "enhance" the game, they make more of the subscriber base leave.
Yes, SWG was losing subs in pre-CU. Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell me it would be at the subscriber level it is today if they hadn't driven subscribers off with not one but two ill-conceived "enhancements"?
Its more of the chicken and the egg than anything really:
Community abandons SWG, which is part of the reason we got the CU (folks leaving because the game was sucking and broken), major reason for the NGE (to open up to a new audience).
However, why did the community abandon SWG? Because development for it sucked - it wasn't quality and it was slow, compared to other games, even of SOE's.*
But you do have a point and I can exemplify with a guild that is slowly dieing....a new guild member leaves because he says the guild isn't active enough. But so do 4 other people. If all 5 of those just got together and played together, there would be a community...because they're leaving because of inactivity, they're a self-fulfilling prophecy.
However, it is only a point...and applies a lot better to a small example than to a huge MMO. Nothing is ever one-sided...there are always causes, so never forget 'em.
*Just to add in an example....the community waited a year for the CU to be developed (not only did it morph 3 times, but the CU as we knew it was re-designed once or twice), it was scrapped in approximately 8 months...
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Well if people are mistreated repeatedly and misled, and get tired of the abuse, and decide to leave a bad situation, why try to make them feel guilty for it?
Maybe SOE does only care about the bottom line, but is this all they should care about?
Even if changes needed to be made to make the SWG project more viable, does that justify misleading the player community with the Trials of Obi-Wan marketting? Does it justify deleting the 2 year accomplishments of hundreds of thousands of people, and dismantling the mehcanisms that kept their communities together?
No, I don't think I'm going to buy into your "blame the victim" mentality. It compliments SOE's abusive behaviour nicely, but it's not for me.
Bottom line for me is I can not play the game I enjoyed for two years anymore because SOE switched it with another. I can not play the profession(s) that I enjoyed because they do not exist anymore. That is not my fault nor will I feel guilty about it. I have done my part as part of the cimmunity. Identifed bugs, gave feedback on changes, and hung in there with the bugs. I even helped beta test expansions to improve the game not have it destroyed.
I have logged in a couple times off and on since NGE and the server I played on is a ghost town. So I am sure SOE did the finicially smart thing with NGE, worked out well for them. Those of us who have left are still doing something for SWG. We are providing feedback on what we liked, what we do not like and what we as "The community" want in a MMORPH. SOE is too hard headed, naieve or whatever to listen then they deserve the flop of a game they now have. They should have learned an important lesson from SWG but from what I have seen and read Vanguard is not doing too terrible well at this point.
Originally posted by LakeDaemon SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them.
I'm not trolling. Hear me out.
First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you.
SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting. I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Perfect rant for a non-vet. Live through the pain first before you talk, watch as years of work crumble in front of you as your game slowly deletes itself. Also if their vision was so damn great why has 3/4 of the playerbase vanished? Ya great business model. I blame YOU for bringing it up!!!
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
What's even funnier is he's blaming "the cabalists".
There IS NO cabal. It's a work of fiction that $OE supposingly believes. Those, like me, who call themselves members of the cabal are just making fun of their sheer lunacy.
Wasn't it you that put a "Free porn for SOE employees" sign and set an ambush in the Bronx the other day?
I could swear it was you...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Bottom line for me is I can not play the game I enjoyed for two years anymore because SOE switched it with another. I can not play the profession(s) that I enjoyed because they do not exist anymore. That is not my fault nor will I feel guilty about it. I have done my part as part of the cimmunity. Identifed bugs, gave feedback on changes, and hung in there with the bugs. I even helped beta test expansions to improve the game not have it destroyed. I have logged in a couple times off and on since NGE and the server I played on is a ghost town. So I am sure SOE did the finicially smart thing with NGE, worked out well for them. Those of us who have left are still doing something for SWG. We are providing feedback on what we liked, what we do not like and what we as "The community" want in a MMORPH. SOE is too hard headed, naieve or whatever to listen then they deserve the flop of a game they now have. They should have learned an important lesson from SWG but from what I have seen and read Vanguard is not doing too terrible well at this point.
I beg to differ, SWG was doing well when they released the CU and then the NGE several months later. For what? More cash? I'd actually resub if they made a profit on the deal and the game was better, but I think we all know thats not true.
I'd also like to point out that "Yea I can't wait for SWG to fail" that way some other publisher can publish SWG 2 and it'll be the best MMO on the market! hopefully a WoW killer. That is why I want SWG to fail.
What's even funnier is he's blaming "the cabalists".
There IS NO cabal. It's a work of fiction that $OE supposingly believes. Those, like me, who call themselves members of the cabal are just making fun of their sheer lunacy.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Pre-CU FTW
Death to Smedley
Pre-CU FTW
Hate all things SOE
Wookies have Feelings Too (Some hairy guy at the first meeting asked for that)
Destroy SOE Reputation
Death to Microsoft the Unix Penguin Rulz. (Damn Unix penguin showed up at the first meeting and got that past into the manifesto)
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
Warning! Ignorant and obscene comment below! Sorry, two words... FUCK YOU! Originally posted by LakeDaemon
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Dude...Is that all you got? "Two words, Fuck you"? Yeah thats original, you sure showed that guy. Ding! You are now a level 60 dumb-ass!
Thanks for the complex rebuttal pal, I feel very enlightened right now. This man went through the trouble to write all that, and you just waltz in and win the day with a fuck you? And the funny thing is, I don't even agree with the guy either, but man people like you give ex SWG players a bad name. Next time try to reply with, you know, words and sentences and stuff.
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. Yes, you are, but for what purpose? Trying to convince yourself? First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. You see, we did leave, we did take our money elsewhere. As you yourself say, it is our right to do so. It is also our right to dislike the way our gaming world and environments have been completely revamped multiples of times in ways that have had negative effects on our own gaming experiences. Simply put, we did not create the problematic situation, Smedley and Torres did that. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal.
You are correct. The trouble is that when you purchase a product or service, you expect that product or service to remain at some constant. If that product or service changes, you want the change to provide more product or more service. This has never been the case with Star Wars Galaxies. The product became increasingly retarded with each game revamp. Every major evolution cut away more and more of the stratagy and user interaction.
The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this.
What? Star Wars Galaxies was doing just fine. It was bringing in loads of money, had many players, and was very stabil, even with the bugs.
The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
The game is easier, but so is Pac-Man and Asteroids. We had a world environment. We had a game with more stratagy and diversity of interaction then any game before or since. The game was a technical game for gaming adults and for kids who were, well, smart.
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
It is your argument that it is our fault? Again, you seem to be trying to convince yourself of something. You make no sense at all in this statement. Most of us left because the game became a shadow of what it once was. You already know this I am sure, but I would guess that being all alone in SWG these days has even die-hard SOE addicts like yourself disgruntled. Don't take it out on us. Run back to the SOE forums where you will find more who are still hoping Smedley will pass the K-Y before the next stab.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you.
No, most of us admit that we left SOE and SWG. You seem to agree that we have the right to leave, but you also overlook that we complain about what was done to the game we loved. I have never seen where anyone was upset that "SOE left them" or anything of the sort.
We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
You are incorrect. I won't go back because the game I purchased and fell in love with was destroyed. Sure the scenery is there, but the game mechanics are gone. It was the game that brought us together. We created communities within a game environment we loved. When the game went to crap, we left. I don't understand what you want to blaim me for. Leaving? I would still be there if I enjoyed playing the game. I don't, so I am not there.
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
Oh I get it, you think that I am not playing to try to force SOE to change it all back? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I simply refuse to pay for a game that I don't enjoy playing. If you want to, then continue to pay to play that game you seem to be upset over. That is what this is all about isn't it? You are angry with the game and now you want to blaim us so that you don't have to point the finger at those who destroyed what we used to play.
I've said this before and Ill say it again.
My eyes are bleeding.
It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community.
That would only be true if you were a dancer, musician, or image designer... the rest of us enjoyed the level of immersive game play that the old game mechanics allowed and fostered.
The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
Do you think that none of us have tried it in the hopes that we could play and enjoy it again? Your a very narrow person. The old mechanics allowed many more different play styles to exist. PvPers, PvErs, Role Players, Crafters, Entertainers, etc etc etc... we all could find our own little slice of the environment and we all enjoyed how we played the game. That is no longer possible now. If you can enjoy it as it is now, then good for you. For the rest of us, we were robbed of that.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
How old are you? You really believe this crap or are you on the verge of quitting yourself and looking for people to point the finger at?
"SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-
"When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete
First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you.
SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
ROFLMAO, come on now Smed, how much longer are you going to try to blame the players for your own incompetence???
Fewer bugs???
More stable???
Its more financially viable now with 1/10 the players of Pre-NGE???
Where's the "LA made me do it" that usually comes with these posts???
LMAO what a classic SOE Fantasy Land write up, chock full of lies and propaganda where up is down and left is right.
Not sure which is sadder, the fact that you believe this garbage or that you're trying to get others to buy into this nonsense.
WE left because it's not the same, And many of US did try to save what WE wanted in OUR world. That is why there was a test center, for us to test, and try the new stuff comming. Then there was the forums for US to say what WE would on the game. Now none of us were ever ban'd, or had posts deleted, or threads locked for saying anything anti new-oh-shiney! commming in the next pub!
WE played our game inspite of the bugs.
WE waited how long for our Smuggler re-vamp? ( Ranger re-vamp? )
WE stood in medical ( is there any reason to do that now? ) while players who CHOSE to do non-combat medical practice, healed our wounds.
WE stood and socialized in cantinas as Ent's cured the Blackness of Battle Fatuige.
WE had a world to be in, that wasn't like any other, and it was ours with it's flaws, and it's problems, all the while paying our monthly fee.
Now I have a question for YOU!
Would YOU, wanting to see a movie, buy a ticket. Get your popcorn, and drink. Sit down talking with your friend, and the row in front of you about how great this movie is gonna be? Would you sit there excited as the light go dark, and nudge your friend as the credits roll? You'e enjoying it, but the sound is buggy, and crackles, and then partway into the movie it stops... WTF? lights come up, and the Theatre says "Were sorry, there's a fix comming soon" So you get a voucher, and come back the next day.
Next day you arrive, buy more popcorn, and a drink. Take your seat. Lights go dark, and the movie starts. Still excited you now realize the movie is different. the same buggy sound is there, but there are new flashy effects! ohhh ahh! big explosion! Ant the movie cuts out...
"We'll have it fixed soon" the theatre says.
Now your back, yep more popcorn to buy, nother drink. Dim the lights, and WTF? it's a cheezy-foreign love story, with subtitles....
How long would YOU keep going back? how long until YOU went to a different theatre?
WE didn't abandon anything. WE were baned when we protested. WE begged for no avail when they took our pets, and WE cried out when they replaced our beloved little buggy world, with something else.
If you paid for an action movie DVD, and got something else, inside. Would YOU keep watching it based on the cover?
WARNING- The above post contains something know as an example. An example uses something not of the original topiic to convey the idea of what is being explained. Smart peole may have already picked up on this. If you fail to understand the topic of the 'Example'. Please write your congressman, and have him attempt to adjust the no child left behind policy.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
Brilliant reasoning, I'm sure that was their intensions
But when do such massive game play changes, you will lose players. Bet they never anticipated they would lose this many, and get THAT much heat in the process. So much negativity, isn't going to attract new customers, which is fine by me
The soon they close the dungpile, we can get a new Starwars MMO. In the mean time, it's EVE and soon SWGemu
Of course, if SOE makes the new one. I'm not playing..
First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you.
SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
absolutly wrong they where the ones that abandoned my ch/rifleman so I left. why should I play a game as a proff I don't want? if they woulda just added new content and bug fixes to pre-cu i bet most of us would still be playing.
As for the rest of this thread its sad. Blame the customers for not embracing your product. Sounds like SOE's business practices. The customer is always dumb and have no idea what they really want.
Aikes, I think you put up a good, logical rebuttal. However, the OP has already made up his mind.
I'd just like to add one thing. Did you ever notice that people don't knock the SWG game? They always knock SOE.
There's a reason...
SOE is a vampire. They acquire the rights to a game that a company has poured their sweat and blood into, and they bastardize it to conform with their commercial scheme. If they can create a way to draw more revenue they will do it, regardless of the effects on the gameplay.
I've seen this happen with at least 4 games that I can think of off the top of my head. That's why I left; I don't plan on giving them any more of my money, ever
I respectfully disagree with the OP. The reason is simple. SOE knew, or they are monumentally stupid which I don't believe they are, that they were going to run off most of their existing players with the NGE. They made the calculated decision, they were finicially better off if they could replace us, with more of the casual non-star wars fan, type players. They abandoned us intentionally. That half of their plan worked, they just never got the new subcribers.
Maybe that's a good short term decision if it works. Fortunately it didn't. But in the long run, its a horrible decision, because from now on, you can never trust any acheivement in a SOE game, because they as a company are ok with undoing your achievement, if they believe it will give them an increase in subscribers. If SOE can't be trusted to protect your in game acheivments, why acheive anything? If you are going to acheive anything, what is the point of playing a MMO.
You know.. suprisingly enough, the captain of the Titanic blames the passengers for leaving the ship and giving the cruise line all that bad press.
Not to mention the horrible movie.
And that song.. don't get me started on that.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Rofl... I like lemmings you guys are great to watch fall off cliffs.
In most respects, telling you te get to the back of line is just not worth it.
The community should have used common sense and listend to us when we warned them that the NGE would fail and ruin the game... but nooooooooooooooooooo.....
It would take the producers actually saying "DO NOT MAKE OUR MISTAKES" several fireings, mass exodous and tons of bad reviews, press, complaints and just plain common sense to see we were right and this should have never happend.
The frame work HAS NOT BEEN FIXED, in fact it is not even the same frame let alone if it works... you say adapt??? I call that being forced to accept... big difference.
When you go from a thinking SIM world to a ARCADE style hurry and go go go game... you are going to have a problem. (SEE: the NGE and understand that).
If you think that accepting sub-par programming with leadership that is for shit and changing so much due to failure then so be it, you go jump on that "Titanic" as I quote the producer... BUT do not think that some of us here don't use common sense and have the quality or sense to see and or know when somthing is not going well.
SOE fucked us, Smedely has said it, the producers said it... the hundreds of thousands of people that left prove it.
Do not come here and say "We did not give them a chance" or that we have hurt thier community, because they brought this one on all themselves. We are just here now stating the obvious, as the SERVER MERGERS are being discussed you keep on thinking that is proof of some sort of success of the NGE, because most of us know better.. (You do not shut down servers because your doing well chap)..
More or less this was predicted, said, warned against.... the term "They made thier bed , now they have to "lie" in it fits well" -- (Yes the word lie is one purpose)...
Good day..
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
The OP is right, SWG is a business and it's about financial gain. SOE decided to try to cash in on a movie tie in and the dumb simplicity of WoW type online gaming to cash in big. They failed to realize that people were actually playing SWG at the time and enjoyed the world the way it was.
They gave up on current subscribers to try to appeal to a perceived new wave of subscribers that simply didn't exist. They paid the price in doing so and killed a game many of us loved. SWG was nice while it lasted, but as the OP said, it's all about money and not about making a beautiful world, which is what SWG started out as.
Comments
SO...we should compare NGE to CU instead, is that it? Compare the "game that now exists that we don't want" to the "game that was changed in such a way as to make it worse and, by your words, make subscribers leave"? Okay, fine.
Compare it to "Pong"...when it comes to results, NGE FAILS.
Yes, it's not fair to compare NGE to SWG in its heyday...a heyday you just said was before CU. In other words, every time they mess with the gam...excuse me, "enhance" the game, they make more of the subscriber base leave.
Yes, SWG was losing subs in pre-CU. Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell me it would be at the subscriber level it is today if they hadn't driven subscribers off with not one but two ill-conceived "enhancements"?
Please. Pull the other one, it has bells on.
Community abandons SWG, which is part of the reason we got the CU (folks leaving because the game was sucking and broken), major reason for the NGE (to open up to a new audience).
However, why did the community abandon SWG? Because development for it sucked - it wasn't quality and it was slow, compared to other games, even of SOE's.*
But you do have a point and I can exemplify with a guild that is slowly dieing....a new guild member leaves because he says the guild isn't active enough. But so do 4 other people. If all 5 of those just got together and played together, there would be a community...because they're leaving because of inactivity, they're a self-fulfilling prophecy.
However, it is only a point...and applies a lot better to a small example than to a huge MMO. Nothing is ever one-sided...there are always causes, so never forget 'em.
*Just to add in an example....the community waited a year for the CU to be developed (not only did it morph 3 times, but the CU as we knew it was re-designed once or twice), it was scrapped in approximately 8 months...
Well if people are mistreated repeatedly and misled, and get tired of the abuse, and decide to leave a bad situation, why try to make them feel guilty for it?
Maybe SOE does only care about the bottom line, but is this all they should care about?
Even if changes needed to be made to make the SWG project more viable, does that justify misleading the player community with the Trials of Obi-Wan marketting? Does it justify deleting the 2 year accomplishments of hundreds of thousands of people, and dismantling the mehcanisms that kept their communities together?
No, I don't think I'm going to buy into your "blame the victim" mentality. It compliments SOE's abusive behaviour nicely, but it's not for me.
Arc
Bottom line for me is I can not play the game I enjoyed for two years anymore because SOE switched it with another. I can not play the profession(s) that I enjoyed because they do not exist anymore. That is not my fault nor will I feel guilty about it. I have done my part as part of the cimmunity. Identifed bugs, gave feedback on changes, and hung in there with the bugs. I even helped beta test expansions to improve the game not have it destroyed.
I have logged in a couple times off and on since NGE and the server I played on is a ghost town. So I am sure SOE did the finicially smart thing with NGE, worked out well for them. Those of us who have left are still doing something for SWG. We are providing feedback on what we liked, what we do not like and what we as "The community" want in a MMORPH. SOE is too hard headed, naieve or whatever to listen then they deserve the flop of a game they now have. They should have learned an important lesson from SWG but from what I have seen and read Vanguard is not doing too terrible well at this point.
Perfect rant for a non-vet. Live through the pain first before you talk, watch as years of work crumble in front of you as your game slowly deletes itself. Also if their vision was so damn great why has 3/4 of the playerbase vanished? Ya great business model. I blame YOU for bringing it up!!!
Wasn't it you that put a "Free porn for SOE employees" sign and set an ambush in the Bronx the other day?
I could swear it was you...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well said
ArcAngel
I'd also like to point out that "Yea I can't wait for SWG to fail" that way some other publisher can publish SWG 2 and it'll be the best MMO on the market! hopefully a WoW killer. That is why I want SWG to fail.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Or something like that.
OMG I want one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ethics
Sorry, two words...
FUCK YOU!
Classic SWG > CUNGE
I DID ABANDON SOE! I WAS A FOOL, TAKE ME BACK!
THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES!
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
Dude...Is that all you got? "Two words, Fuck you"? Yeah thats original, you sure showed that guy. Ding! You are now a level 60 dumb-ass!
Thanks for the complex rebuttal pal, I feel very enlightened right now. This man went through the trouble to write all that, and you just waltz in and win the day with a fuck you? And the funny thing is, I don't even agree with the guy either, but man people like you give ex SWG players a bad name. Next time try to reply with, you know, words and sentences and stuff.
"SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-
"When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete
ROFLMAO, come on now Smed, how much longer are you going to try to blame the players for your own incompetence???
Fewer bugs???
More stable???
Its more financially viable now with 1/10 the players of Pre-NGE???
Where's the "LA made me do it" that usually comes with these posts???
LMAO what a classic SOE Fantasy Land write up, chock full of lies and propaganda where up is down and left is right.
Not sure which is sadder, the fact that you believe this garbage or that you're trying to get others to buy into this nonsense.
LOLOLOLOLOL "It's the players fault" LOLOLOLOLOL
WE left because it's not the same, And many of US did try to save what WE wanted in OUR world. That is why there was a test center, for us to test, and try the new stuff comming. Then there was the forums for US to say what WE would on the game. Now none of us were ever ban'd, or had posts deleted, or threads locked for saying anything anti new-oh-shiney! commming in the next pub!
WE played our game inspite of the bugs.
WE waited how long for our Smuggler re-vamp? ( Ranger re-vamp? )
WE stood in medical ( is there any reason to do that now? ) while players who CHOSE to do non-combat medical practice, healed our wounds.
WE stood and socialized in cantinas as Ent's cured the Blackness of Battle Fatuige.
WE had a world to be in, that wasn't like any other, and it was ours with it's flaws, and it's problems, all the while paying our monthly fee.
Now I have a question for YOU!
Would YOU, wanting to see a movie, buy a ticket. Get your popcorn, and drink. Sit down talking with your friend, and the row in front of you about how great this movie is gonna be? Would you sit there excited as the light go dark, and nudge your friend as the credits roll? You'e enjoying it, but the sound is buggy, and crackles, and then partway into the movie it stops... WTF? lights come up, and the Theatre says "Were sorry, there's a fix comming soon" So you get a voucher, and come back the next day.
Next day you arrive, buy more popcorn, and a drink. Take your seat. Lights go dark, and the movie starts. Still excited you now realize the movie is different. the same buggy sound is there, but there are new flashy effects! ohhh ahh! big explosion! Ant the movie cuts out...
"We'll have it fixed soon" the theatre says.
Now your back, yep more popcorn to buy, nother drink. Dim the lights, and WTF? it's a cheezy-foreign love story, with subtitles....
How long would YOU keep going back? how long until YOU went to a different theatre?
WE didn't abandon anything. WE were baned when we protested. WE begged for no avail when they took our pets, and WE cried out when they replaced our beloved little buggy world, with something else.
If you paid for an action movie DVD, and got something else, inside. Would YOU keep watching it based on the cover?
WARNING- The above post contains something know as an example. An example uses something not of the original topiic to convey the idea of what is being explained. Smart peole may have already picked up on this. If you fail to understand the topic of the 'Example'. Please write your congressman, and have him attempt to adjust the no child left behind policy.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
But when do such massive game play changes, you will lose players.
Bet they never anticipated they would lose this many, and get THAT much
heat in the process. So much negativity, isn't going to attract new customers, which is fine by me
The soon they close the dungpile, we can get a new Starwars MMO.
In the mean time, it's EVE and soon SWGemu
Of course, if SOE makes the new one. I'm not playing..
Joeyboots...
You could give the Dane Cook Super Finger FTW.
As for the rest of this thread its sad. Blame the customers for not embracing your product. Sounds like SOE's business practices. The customer is always dumb and have no idea what they really want.
LMAO! To quote a great man...."Heeeere's your sign."
I'd just like to add one thing. Did you ever notice that people don't knock the SWG game? They always knock SOE.
There's a reason...
SOE is a vampire. They acquire the rights to a game that a company has poured their sweat and blood into, and they bastardize it to conform with their commercial scheme. If they can create a way to draw more revenue they will do it, regardless of the effects on the gameplay.
I've seen this happen with at least 4 games that I can think of off the top of my head. That's why I left; I don't plan on giving them any more of my money, ever
I respectfully disagree with the OP. The reason is simple. SOE knew, or they are monumentally stupid which I don't believe they are, that they were going to run off most of their existing players with the NGE. They made the calculated decision, they were finicially better off if they could replace us, with more of the casual non-star wars fan, type players. They abandoned us intentionally. That half of their plan worked, they just never got the new subcribers.
Maybe that's a good short term decision if it works. Fortunately it didn't. But in the long run, its a horrible decision, because from now on, you can never trust any acheivement in a SOE game, because they as a company are ok with undoing your achievement, if they believe it will give them an increase in subscribers. If SOE can't be trusted to protect your in game acheivments, why acheive anything? If you are going to acheive anything, what is the point of playing a MMO.
Not to mention the horrible movie.
And that song.. don't get me started on that.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Rofl... I like lemmings you guys are great to watch fall off cliffs.
In most respects, telling you te get to the back of line is just not worth it.
The community should have used common sense and listend to us when we warned them that the NGE would fail and ruin the game... but nooooooooooooooooooo.....
It would take the producers actually saying "DO NOT MAKE OUR MISTAKES" several fireings, mass exodous and tons of bad reviews, press, complaints and just plain common sense to see we were right and this should have never happend.
The frame work HAS NOT BEEN FIXED, in fact it is not even the same frame let alone if it works... you say adapt??? I call that being forced to accept... big difference.
When you go from a thinking SIM world to a ARCADE style hurry and go go go game... you are going to have a problem. (SEE: the NGE and understand that).
If you think that accepting sub-par programming with leadership that is for shit and changing so much due to failure then so be it, you go jump on that "Titanic" as I quote the producer... BUT do not think that some of us here don't use common sense and have the quality or sense to see and or know when somthing is not going well.
SOE fucked us, Smedely has said it, the producers said it... the hundreds of thousands of people that left prove it.
Do not come here and say "We did not give them a chance" or that we have hurt thier community, because they brought this one on all themselves. We are just here now stating the obvious, as the SERVER MERGERS are being discussed you keep on thinking that is proof of some sort of success of the NGE, because most of us know better.. (You do not shut down servers because your doing well chap)..
More or less this was predicted, said, warned against.... the term "They made thier bed , now they have to "lie" in it fits well" -- (Yes the word lie is one purpose)...
Good day..
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I'm sure this was said before, but whatever.
The OP is right, SWG is a business and it's about financial gain. SOE decided to try to cash in on a movie tie in and the dumb simplicity of WoW type online gaming to cash in big. They failed to realize that people were actually playing SWG at the time and enjoyed the world the way it was.
They gave up on current subscribers to try to appeal to a perceived new wave of subscribers that simply didn't exist. They paid the price in doing so and killed a game many of us loved. SWG was nice while it lasted, but as the OP said, it's all about money and not about making a beautiful world, which is what SWG started out as.