Gee Filthred, thanks for the personal attack. I guess that would be why I found his screenshot to be the same quality as my LOTRO screenshot. They were both using MAX settings, and they both look incredibly poor next to the image of VG.
Think you are missing another part of the topic, performance . But yet you will go on and on about Hi Res , without acknowledging that the LotRO images Mars used are of the Low RES texture pack. And it is not an attack , it is your lack of understanding the difference that i'm trying to clear up.
Actually, both games perform quite well on my machine. I can get 60fps the majority of the time in VG. See, both images were using the LOW RES client at Max settings, and they both look like crap. { Mod Edit }
That's odd, a moderator is gonna edit my post and not tell me why. I don't even remember what I put in there, but I know for sure it didn't break any rules. Perhaps the moderators are playing favourites? Feel free to PM me with why my post was edited.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Sorry but I'd have to agree in that jackdogs images are just quite bland. The whole LOTRO has a (as someone else put it) flaccid and "previous generation" feel to it.
I mean half of the screenshots people put up look like they came from DDO or AC2.
Jackdog says his machine takes bad screenshots, but more lilely that's cause he's a fanboy and the game itself just doesn't take good screenshots. I've only ever seen a handful of screenshots for LOTRO that looked anything half way worth of decent, and they could easily have been taken by the developers. People pass them around like they're the holy grail when the rest of the screenshots of the game (which far outnumber the decent looking ones) look like DDO had a mutant flipper baby.
I'm sorry but that's just what you get when the devs make a bonehead decision to use an old engine from a game that flopped.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This thread proves one thing, graphic preference are subjective. I recall the same arguements when eq2 and wow came out.
As for performance, well I dont think there is a question there, LOTRO performs alot better, it has Anti Aliasing and all the features you would think a game to be released in 2007 has. Vanguard of course has been plagued by bad performance since beta 3, no anti aliasing 2 months after release.
This thread proves one thing, graphic preference are subjective. I recall the same arguements when eq2 and wow came out. As for performance, well I dont think there is a question there, LOTRO performs alot better, it has Anti Aliasing and all the features you would think a game to be released in 2007 has. Vanguard of course has been plagued by bad performance since beta 3, no anti aliasing 2 months after release. -Allegria
Very well said. Inspite I prefer Vanguards graphics, which is just a matter of taste. I have to admit some things are better in LOTRO, I just do not understand why Anti Aliasing still isnt implemented in Vanguard. Also water is much better in LOTRO. However, I do not like how some things look, character faces, trees, textures, I do agree that LOTRO runs better on slower machines. This is important for many players.
This thread proves one thing, graphic preference are subjective. I recall the same arguements when eq2 and wow came out. As for performance, well I dont think there is a question there, LOTRO performs alot better, it has Anti Aliasing and all the features you would think a game to be released in 2007 has. Vanguard of course has been plagued by bad performance since beta 3, no anti aliasing 2 months after release. -Allegria
Very well said. Inspite I prefer Vanguards graphics, which is just a matter of taste. I have to admit some things are better in LOTRO, I just do not understand why Anti Aliasing still isnt implemented in Vanguard. Also water is much better in LOTRO. However, I do not like how some things look, character faces, trees, textures, I do agree that LOTRO runs better on slower machines. This is important for many players.
Agreed. I personally loathe WoW's cartoony colorful children's book appeal, but love the fact that it's smooth. In LOTRO, the landscape and especially the water are beatuiful characters could be better, but they are not that bad either.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Sorry but I'd have to agree in that jackdogs images are just quite bland. The whole LOTRO has a (as someone else put it) flaccid and "previous generation" feel to it. I mean half of the screenshots people put up look like they came from DDO or AC2. Jackdog says his machine takes bad screenshots, but more lilely that's cause he's a fanboy and the game itself just doesn't take good screenshots. I've only ever seen a handful of screenshots for LOTRO that looked anything half way worth of decent, and they could easily have been taken by the developers. People pass them around like they're the holy grail when the rest of the screenshots of the game (which far outnumber the decent looking ones) look like DDO had a mutant flipper baby. I'm sorry but that's just what you get when the devs make a bonehead decision to use an old engine from a game that flopped.
That is great you have your opinion , Until you can show us a video of you playing at ultra high setting in Vanguard , both you posts are flames and trolls.
I think you are right. I play both Games. I enjoy Lotro for it's clever ideas and it's amazing perfomance. I enjoy vanguard for it's complexity of skills, crafting and long term goals.
But Vanguard fails dramatically in perfomance vs Lotro (and any other mmo actually). The only way i can play Vanguard is to lower the graphics settings so much that it looks like the games i used to play many years ago. Shaders low, anisotropic off, HDR off, everything off.
It seems to me that Vanguard's problem is not only grafix since it refuses to take full advantage of the cpu. Even the grafix card in vanguard seems to work without bothering to render everything fast. I don't know how they did that.
It is impossible to have just 70-80 fps in the character selection screen (press ctrl+p and F10 to hide the interface) and then expect to enjoy the game in the world. it gives 15-20 fps in Tursh village which is actually a few houses around.
But "games are not only graphics" many people say. Ok then let's turn off our monitors and play them. I did not ask for the quality of oblivion but at least i expected something better than the rough polygons i see. PVE (forget about PVP) is almost impossible even with the lowest settings. Just try to agro 4-5 npcs and you will see what i mean.
Vanguard has many promising features. It would be an ideal game for many people if it had just a few frames more. I cant believe that Sigil makes patches to alter the balance of skills and nothing for perfomance. All the tweaks i tried were a waste of time since they work only by looking always down or up or making the game look like meridian 59.
"Brad McQuaid, designer of the game, addressed the issue prior to release in the Official Vanguard forums, writing the following:
"We all agree performance is #1 -- we expect to see about a 10% improvement by launch for low-mid level machines. There's only so much we can do in the time we have. "
Correction: " Ultra High - High level machines". Vanguard has potential which of course does not justify it's ridiculous perfomance. Lotro has a good base of features to evolve. But it is just a base. If the designers of lotro fail to comply with the common virtual worlds' rules which are long term, then it will be just another few months shelter for many of us.
I think you are right. I play both Games. I enjoy Lotro for it's clever ideas and it's amazing perfomance. I enjoy vanguard for it's complexity of skills, crafting and long term goals. But Vanguard fails dramatically in perfomance vs Lotro (and any other mmo actually). The only way i can play Vanguard is to lower the graphics settings so much that it looks like the games i used to play many years ago. Shaders low, anisotropic off, HDR off, everything off. It seems to me that Vanguard's problem is not only grafix since it refuses to take full advantage of the cpu. Even the grafix card in vanguard seems to work without bothering to render everything fast. I don't know how they did that. It is impossible to have just 70-80 fps in the character selection screen (press ctrl+p and F10 to hide the interface) and then expect to enjoy the game in the world. it gives 15-20 fps in Tursh village which is actually a few houses around. But "games are not only graphics" many people say. Ok then let's turn off our monitors and play them. I did not ask for the quality of oblivion but at least i expected something better than the rough polygons i see. PVE (forget about PVP) is almost impossible even with the lowest settings. Just try to agro 4-5 npcs and you will see what i mean. Vanguard has many promising features. It would be an ideal game for many people if it had just a few frames more. I cant believe that Sigil makes patches to alter the balance of skills and nothing for perfomance. All the tweaks i tried were a waste of time since they work only by looking always down or up or making the game look like meridian 59. "Brad McQuaid, designer of the game, addressed the issue prior to release in the Official Vanguard forums, writing the following: "We all agree performance is #1 -- we expect to see about a 10% improvement by launch for low-mid level machines. There's only so much we can do in the time we have. " Correction: " Ultra High - High level machines". Vanguard has potential which of course does not justify it's ridiculous perfomance. Lotro has a good base of features to evolve. But it is just a base. If the designers of lotro fail to comply with the common virtual worlds' rules which are long term, then it will be just another few months shelter for many of us.
But that's starting to steer the direction on the thread. It's goal was to compare the Performance and Graphical integrity of both games. I (the OP) won't disagree that Vanguard has a lot of potential with their ideas and scope of the game. LOTRO takes a more focused approach to their game without taking all of the risks. But in regards to what you say regarding graphics/performance, you are right. LOTRO is so much more fun because it's performance and down-to-earth approach to graphics that work wonderfully. If Vanguard can give me the performance my machine deserves (Core 2 Due E6600, 7800GTX, 2 Gigs Corsairs XMS2 DDR2 800) along with a totally revamped exterior lighting system (seriously the biggest detractio from the graphics, I think the entirety of the game would look SOOOOO much better if they made it so that the game has depth with deep colors and shadows - not the overbright setting that has everything looking like it's reflecting and being affected by light in the exact same way creating just a simple washed out plastic appearance), then I may go back to it, because I am very interested in the ideas the game has- but again the ideas are not what's at hand here.
I think you are right. I play both Games. I enjoy Lotro for it's clever ideas and it's amazing perfomance. I enjoy vanguard for it's complexity of skills, crafting and long term goals. But Vanguard fails dramatically in perfomance vs Lotro (and any other mmo actually). The only way i can play Vanguard is to lower the graphics settings so much that it looks like the games i used to play many years ago. Shaders low, anisotropic off, HDR off, everything off. It seems to me that Vanguard's problem is not only grafix since it refuses to take full advantage of the cpu. Even the grafix card in vanguard seems to work without bothering to render everything fast. I don't know how they did that. It is impossible to have just 70-80 fps in the character selection screen (press ctrl+p and F10 to hide the interface) and then expect to enjoy the game in the world. it gives 15-20 fps in Tursh village which is actually a few houses around. But "games are not only graphics" many people say. Ok then let's turn off our monitors and play them. I did not ask for the quality of oblivion but at least i expected something better than the rough polygons i see. PVE (forget about PVP) is almost impossible even with the lowest settings. Just try to agro 4-5 npcs and you will see what i mean. Vanguard has many promising features. It would be an ideal game for many people if it had just a few frames more. I cant believe that Sigil makes patches to alter the balance of skills and nothing for perfomance. All the tweaks i tried were a waste of time since they work only by looking always down or up or making the game look like meridian 59. "Brad McQuaid, designer of the game, addressed the issue prior to release in the Official Vanguard forums, writing the following: "We all agree performance is #1 -- we expect to see about a 10% improvement by launch for low-mid level machines. There's only so much we can do in the time we have. " Correction: " Ultra High - High level machines". Vanguard has potential which of course does not justify it's ridiculous perfomance. Lotro has a good base of features to evolve. But it is just a base. If the designers of lotro fail to comply with the common virtual worlds' rules which are long term, then it will be just another few months shelter for many of us.
But that's starting to steer the direction on the thread. It's goal was to compare the Performance and Graphical integrity of both games. I (the OP) won't disagree that Vanguard has a lot of potential with their ideas and scope of the game. LOTRO takes a more focused approach to their game without taking all of the risks. But in regards to what you say regarding graphics/performance, you are right. LOTRO is so much more fun because it's performance and down-to-earth approach to graphics that work wonderfully. If Vanguard can give me the performance my machine deserves (Core 2 Due E6600, 7800GTX, 2 Gigs Corsairs XMS2 DDR2 800) along with a totally revamped exterior lighting system (seriously the biggest detractio from the graphics, I think the entirety of the game would look SOOOOO much better if they made it so that the game has depth with deep colors and shadows - not the overbright setting that has everything looking like it's reflecting and being affected by light in the exact same way creating just a simple washed out plastic appearance), then I may go back to it, because I am very interested in the ideas the game has- but again the ideas are not what's at hand here.
You know something gannon, i think u hit it spot on. While playing vanguard i always thought wow the game looks so much better at night. In the day things seemed washed out and faded or something. In fact many in my guild would often complain that their characters look so much better at night but during the day its like UGHH.... Its the lighting system !
Very good points now i can make some sense of what i felt while playing vanguard.
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
This is about the mmost absorb post so far, and yes I reported has flaming. To gicve you my computer specs
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
That is just plain not true. Both my friend and I for instance are enjoying LOTRO better then VG. So is our whole guild.
I run an AMD 64 X2 4200+ with 2 7600 GT 256MB eVGA graphics cards SLI, 2 gigs of ddr2 800 ram. I can run both LOTRO online at max settings and I can run VG at max settings (still get around 30FPS on max) and LOTRO just looks better. My friend has a similar system to me but he is running an AMD 64 X2 5000+ and gets teh same results. VG is so choppy and the water looks like ass. There was one screen shot here on MMORPG that showed the beach area on VG and you couldn't tell the beach from the water because of the artists overuse of bumpmapping and no AA. LOTRO has a much better artistic style. It is more fun to play as well.
Overall the game will definitely do a extremely better then Vanguard has done!
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
This is about the mmost absorb post so far, and yes I reported has flaming. To gicve you my computer specs
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him! Lastera is nothing but a Turbine hating troll. Every post I have seen of his about LOTRO or even Asheron's Call has been reported. Or at least it always says that when I try to report him for trolling. He never provides anything contructive to a thread and instead always throws out rediculous comments that more often than not are lies.
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river. I was able to play the LOTR on my other crappy computer on the highest setting, which is 5 year outdated. You know you don't get good performance unless you are missing quite few features to reduce lag. Trolling is saying things that indirectly insult people to get them upset. { Mod Edit }
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
Again, is the block function bugged..? I swear I had your inane blabber blocked from my screen.
Please, go away.
It may be a site issue. I know that even if I go in and check the box to auto-log in, it will work for a little while and then stop working. So I have to go back in and check the box again (it is unchecked at that point). It could be that or it could be after a person is banned, when they come back it resets their being blocked by anyone. Not sure but that's all I could come up with. Are you using IE 7?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
Again, is the block function bugged..? I swear I had your inane blabber blocked from my screen.
Please, go away.
It may be a site issue. I know that even if I go in and check the box to auto-log in, it will work for a little while and then stop working. So I have to go back in and check the box again (it is unchecked at that point). It could be that or it could be after a person is banned, when they come back it resets their being blocked by anyone. Not sure but that's all I could come up with. Are you using IE 7?
Yeah, IE7.
Oh well, I'll just have to be quicker on the read and look at the name before I start into the text.
Sorry but I'd have to agree in that jackdogs images are just quite bland. The whole LOTRO has a (as someone else put it) flaccid and "previous generation" feel to it. I mean half of the screenshots people put up look like they came from DDO or AC2. Jackdog says his machine takes bad screenshots, but more lilely that's cause he's a fanboy and the game itself just doesn't take good screenshots. I've only ever seen a handful of screenshots for LOTRO that looked anything half way worth of decent, and they could easily have been taken by the developers. People pass them around like they're the holy grail when the rest of the screenshots of the game (which far outnumber the decent looking ones) look like DDO had a mutant flipper baby. I'm sorry but that's just what you get when the devs make a bonehead decision to use an old engine from a game that flopped.
That is great you have your opinion , Until you can show us a video of you playing at ultra high setting in Vanguard , both you posts are flames and trolls.
{ Mod Edit }
What I will do is post an image I took from beta, on max settings. 1920x1280 format, everything at max. Anyone (even the haters) will tell you that VG's performance has only improved since beta as well. (And for the record, a few people tout AA as being a problem for VG. While it's true that AA isn't in the game yet, when you're playing the game you won't notice cause it still looks beautiful. Just goes to show you that AA, which will be added in to VG eventually, doesn't make that big of a difference if the rest of the engine falls flat like the DDO engine being used for LOTRO. This is part of the reason why VG with no AA can still look way better than LOTRO with AA.)
Apologies to anyone who doesn't need to see this, but Filthred did ask for proof. Here's me getting 60FPS in beta. (I don't usually run around with my fps meter on, but decided to see what I was getting during the Griffon Event when people were having problems with lag/chugging due to the massive amount of players in one area on griffons.)
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
*shrugs* to each their own, but it's a moot argument. You're attempting to compare Vanguard vs a game that literally is 10x less texture intensive. LOTRO is on par, if not a little above WoW (which Vanguard models/textures are 16x the size of according to the devs).
So yea... no joke you're getting better performance in LOTRO. That's like saying a Ferrari performs better than a Pinto.
*shrugs* to each their own, but it's a moot argument. You're attempting to compare Vanguard vs a game that literally is 10x less texture intensive. LOTRO is on par, if not a little above WoW (which Vanguard models/textures are 16x the size of according to the devs). So yea... no joke you're getting better performance in LOTRO. That's like saying a Ferrari performs better than a Pinto.
I'd have to agree. To a large point, graphics are a subjective medium. Personally I liked the WoW graphics which many other people didn't.
The DDO engine, which appears to be used in LOTRO, is quite far off from the Vanguard (Unreal) engine in complexity. As Phyluxia pointed out, the textures alone are far smaller and I imagine the models are far more simplified. Thus it's no surprise that people will have an easier time with performance in LOTRO than VG.
I don't know if I would use Ferrari and Pinto as an analogy. Perhaps I would say it's like complaining that a Jet Engine uses more fuel than a lawnmower engine. They're just at two different levels of technology.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well... I hope Brad turns VG around and it thrives. I really, honestly do. I will play it if it ever happens. I own it, I preordered it and as the days passed and I played more and more, i got more and more pissed off. Releasing a game early is one thing, this was a disgrace though in my opinion.
For now, having played both games at their highest settings (LotRO with the pre-order DvD install and high res textures), I think LotRO did a spectacular job with the engine and graphics. The fact that they did it with less poly's and therefore needing less power to run smoothly is just a bonus, either way the world looks so much better than VG's that it's not even funny. Of course, you are right, this is my opinion and graphical quality is very subjective. So, I will stick with the better looking game for me, because it's also polished to a point that other devs should seriously look at with a learning eye. To those that don't... shame on them.
Hey Blurr was that shot of the griffin taken from Microsoft Flight simulator? Those texture are horrible. Thanks for the Vanguard screens though, I had almost forgotten how bad that games graphics are. Still no anti alias in the game either judging from those jaggies.
Also Blurr have the Elves practicing their archery in that high elf starter area got any bow strings or arrows yet? Lat time I saw them on release day the bows did not bend or have any arrows. Poor elves, Brad can't even give them bowstrings or arrows. Maybe he will put some in at the same time he figures out that most modern games have anti alias.
Guess I'll take zones and lower poly-counts, hands down. I thought this screen shot of Vanguard sums up my impression of it awfully well. This is the trade-off for being so high-res, and zone-free?
"Cacophony of daily life," huh? Guess I lack imagination.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Hey Blurr was that shot of the griffin taken from Microsoft Flight simulator? Those texture are horrible. Thanks for the Vanguard screens though, I had almost forgotten how bad that games graphics are. Still no anti alias in the game either judging from those jaggies. Also Blurr have the Elves practicing their archery in that high elf starter area got any bow strings or arrows yet? Lat time I saw them on release day the bows did not bend or have any arrows. Poor elves, Brad can't even give them bowstrings or arrows. Maybe he will put some in at the same time he figures out that most modern games have anti alias.
Hey man, I don't mind the fact that you're a full on Vanguard troll, I really don't. You keep things interesting and are usually kind of funny and smart. But would you at least be a decent guy? I cannot believe you are still on about the friggin bows in the starter area not having strings. Seriously that's pathetic. And I know you're a complete fan of LotRO, but can you honestly say that Vanguards graphics are bad? They are anything but bad, please have a tiny shred of objectivity.
Vanguard's performance leaves something to be desired, but the graphics do not.
Guess I'll take zones and lower poly-counts, hands down. I thought this screen shot of Vanguard sums up my impression of it awfully well. This is the trade-off for being so high-res, and zone-free? "Cacophony of daily life," huh? Guess I lack imagination.
Dude, give us all a break. FIrst of all, that screen is obviously taken at lowest setting, and secondly, could you have found a crappier place and time to take a screenshot? If that screenshot is your impression of Vanguard, then with the amount of time you spent playing it judging by your xfire signature, you would have to be mentally challenged.
Here is a much better impression of Vanguards world. They aren't the clearest as they are just jpgs from the ssbin, but they show something besides some alley in khal.
Dude, give us all a break. FIrst of all, that screen is obviously taken at lowest setting, and secondly, could you have found a crappier place and time to take a screenshot? If that screenshot is your impression of Vanguard, then with the amount of time you spent playing it judging by your xfire signature, you would have to mentally challenged.
It's taken at the default settings. "Balanced," but there's also some JPG compression there. I reset to default because I had problems crashing, and thought it might help. And the shot was just taken as I entered Ahgram, and read the text message about it.
As for why I've played it so much, well, it's not all bad, there are some things I do like about it, of course, and honestly, I'm very bored. And sure, maybe a little mentally challened, too
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Hey Blurr was that shot of the griffin taken from Microsoft Flight simulator? Those texture are horrible. Thanks for the Vanguard screens though, I had almost forgotten how bad that games graphics are. Still no anti alias in the game either judging from those jaggies. Also Blurr have the Elves practicing their archery in that high elf starter area got any bow strings or arrows yet? Lat time I saw them on release day the bows did not bend or have any arrows. Poor elves, Brad can't even give them bowstrings or arrows. Maybe he will put some in at the same time he figures out that most modern games have anti alias.
Hey man, I don't mind the fact that you're a full on Vanguard troll, I really don't. You keep things interesting and are usually kind of funny and smart. But would you at least be a decent guy? I cannot believe you are still on about the friggin bows in the starter area not having strings. Seriously that's pathetic. And I know you're a complete fan of LotRO, but can you honestly say that Vanguards graphics are bad? They are anything but bad, please have a tiny shred of objectivity.
Vanguard's performance leaves something to be desired, but the graphics do not.
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
The definition of graphics means the textures, the animations,the art style and the performance. Not just saying oooohhh look at the draw distance. A few nice landscapes do not a good graphics make, Vanguard has a nice draw distance and some of the areas look very good however the overall package sucks..
edit by the way that horse in that screenshot has to be the ugliest thing I have ever seen, I would not post that one to show off Vanguards graphics if I were you. The feet are absolutely deformed and I am not sure if that is it's tail or if it is taking a dump while running. Another hint go to your drivers and force Anti Alias on, I know Sigil still has to figure out how to get that into the graphics menu but those jaggies are straight out of EQ1. Also how about doing a few with FRAPS or the ingame FPS meter enabled if you want to have any credibility.
Comments
Actually, both games perform quite well on my machine. I can get 60fps the majority of the time in VG. See, both images were using the LOW RES client at Max settings, and they both look like crap. { Mod Edit }
That's odd, a moderator is gonna edit my post and not tell me why. I don't even remember what I put in there, but I know for sure it didn't break any rules. Perhaps the moderators are playing favourites? Feel free to PM me with why my post was edited.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Sorry but I'd have to agree in that jackdogs images are just quite bland. The whole LOTRO has a (as someone else put it) flaccid and "previous generation" feel to it.
I mean half of the screenshots people put up look like they came from DDO or AC2.
Jackdog says his machine takes bad screenshots, but more lilely that's cause he's a fanboy and the game itself just doesn't take good screenshots. I've only ever seen a handful of screenshots for LOTRO that looked anything half way worth of decent, and they could easily have been taken by the developers. People pass them around like they're the holy grail when the rest of the screenshots of the game (which far outnumber the decent looking ones) look like DDO had a mutant flipper baby.
I'm sorry but that's just what you get when the devs make a bonehead decision to use an old engine from a game that flopped.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This thread proves one thing, graphic preference are subjective. I recall the same arguements when eq2 and wow came out.
As for performance, well I dont think there is a question there, LOTRO performs alot better, it has Anti Aliasing and all the features you would think a game to be released in 2007 has. Vanguard of course has been plagued by bad performance since beta 3, no anti aliasing 2 months after release.
-Allegria
Agreed. I personally loathe WoW's cartoony colorful children's book appeal, but love the fact that it's smooth. In LOTRO, the landscape and especially the water are beatuiful
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I like pie !
I think you are right. I play both Games. I enjoy Lotro for it's clever ideas and it's amazing perfomance. I enjoy vanguard for it's complexity of skills, crafting and long term goals.
But Vanguard fails dramatically in perfomance vs Lotro (and any other mmo actually). The only way i can play Vanguard is to lower the graphics settings so much that it looks like the games i used to play many years ago. Shaders low, anisotropic off, HDR off, everything off.
It seems to me that Vanguard's problem is not only grafix since it refuses to take full advantage of the cpu. Even the grafix card in vanguard seems to work without bothering to render everything fast. I don't know how they did that.
It is impossible to have just 70-80 fps in the character selection screen (press ctrl+p and F10 to hide the interface) and then expect to enjoy the game in the world. it gives 15-20 fps in Tursh village which is actually a few houses around.
But "games are not only graphics" many people say. Ok then let's turn off our monitors and play them. I did not ask for the quality of oblivion but at least i expected something better than the rough polygons i see. PVE (forget about PVP) is almost impossible even with the lowest settings. Just try to agro 4-5 npcs and you will see what i mean.
Vanguard has many promising features. It would be an ideal game for many people if it had just a few frames more. I cant believe that Sigil makes patches to alter the balance of skills and nothing for perfomance. All the tweaks i tried were a waste of time since they work only by looking always down or up or making the game look like meridian 59.
"Brad McQuaid, designer of the game, addressed the issue prior to release in the Official Vanguard forums, writing the following:
Correction: " Ultra High - High level machines". Vanguard has potential which of course does not justify it's ridiculous perfomance. Lotro has a good base of features to evolve. But it is just a base. If the designers of lotro fail to comply with the common virtual worlds' rules which are long term, then it will be just another few months shelter for many of us.
But that's starting to steer the direction on the thread. It's goal was to compare the Performance and Graphical integrity of both games. I (the OP) won't disagree that Vanguard has a lot of potential with their ideas and scope of the game. LOTRO takes a more focused approach to their game without taking all of the risks. But in regards to what you say regarding graphics/performance, you are right. LOTRO is so much more fun because it's performance and down-to-earth approach to graphics that work wonderfully. If Vanguard can give me the performance my machine deserves (Core 2 Due E6600, 7800GTX, 2 Gigs Corsairs XMS2 DDR2 800) along with a totally revamped exterior lighting system (seriously the biggest detractio from the graphics, I think the entirety of the game would look SOOOOO much better if they made it so that the game has depth with deep colors and shadows - not the overbright setting that has everything looking like it's reflecting and being affected by light in the exact same way creating just a simple washed out plastic appearance), then I may go back to it, because I am very interested in the ideas the game has- but again the ideas are not what's at hand here.
But that's starting to steer the direction on the thread. It's goal was to compare the Performance and Graphical integrity of both games. I (the OP) won't disagree that Vanguard has a lot of potential with their ideas and scope of the game. LOTRO takes a more focused approach to their game without taking all of the risks. But in regards to what you say regarding graphics/performance, you are right. LOTRO is so much more fun because it's performance and down-to-earth approach to graphics that work wonderfully. If Vanguard can give me the performance my machine deserves (Core 2 Due E6600, 7800GTX, 2 Gigs Corsairs XMS2 DDR2 800) along with a totally revamped exterior lighting system (seriously the biggest detractio from the graphics, I think the entirety of the game would look SOOOOO much better if they made it so that the game has depth with deep colors and shadows - not the overbright setting that has everything looking like it's reflecting and being affected by light in the exact same way creating just a simple washed out plastic appearance), then I may go back to it, because I am very interested in the ideas the game has- but again the ideas are not what's at hand here.
You know something gannon, i think u hit it spot on. While playing vanguard i always thought wow the game looks so much better at night. In the day things seemed washed out and faded or something. In fact many in my guild would often complain that their characters look so much better at night but during the day its like UGHH.... Its the lighting system !
Very good points now i can make some sense of what i felt while playing vanguard.
-Allegria
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
{ Mod Edit }
I like pie !
That is just plain not true. Both my friend and I for instance are enjoying LOTRO better then VG. So is our whole guild.
I run an AMD 64 X2 4200+ with 2 7600 GT 256MB eVGA graphics cards SLI, 2 gigs of ddr2 800 ram. I can run both LOTRO online at max settings and I can run VG at max settings (still get around 30FPS on max) and LOTRO just looks better. My friend has a similar system to me but he is running an AMD 64 X2 5000+ and gets teh same results. VG is so choppy and the water looks like ass. There was one screen shot here on MMORPG that showed the beach area on VG and you couldn't tell the beach from the water because of the artists overuse of bumpmapping and no AA. LOTRO has a much better artistic style. It is more fun to play as well.
Overall the game will definitely do a extremely better then Vanguard has done!
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him!
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river.
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
Again, is the block function bugged..? I swear I had your inane blabber blocked from my screen.
Please, go away.
It may be a site issue. I know that even if I go in and check the box to auto-log in, it will work for a little while and then stop working. So I have to go back in and check the box again (it is unchecked at that point). It could be that or it could be after a person is banned, when they come back it resets their being blocked by anyone. Not sure but that's all I could come up with. Are you using IE 7?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Again, is the block function bugged..? I swear I had your inane blabber blocked from my screen.
Please, go away.
It may be a site issue. I know that even if I go in and check the box to auto-log in, it will work for a little while and then stop working. So I have to go back in and check the box again (it is unchecked at that point). It could be that or it could be after a person is banned, when they come back it resets their being blocked by anyone. Not sure but that's all I could come up with. Are you using IE 7?
Yeah, IE7.
Oh well, I'll just have to be quicker on the read and look at the name before I start into the text.
{ Mod Edit }
What I will do is post an image I took from beta, on max settings. 1920x1280 format, everything at max. Anyone (even the haters) will tell you that VG's performance has only improved since beta as well. (And for the record, a few people tout AA as being a problem for VG. While it's true that AA isn't in the game yet, when you're playing the game you won't notice cause it still looks beautiful. Just goes to show you that AA, which will be added in to VG eventually, doesn't make that big of a difference if the rest of the engine falls flat like the DDO engine being used for LOTRO. This is part of the reason why VG with no AA can still look way better than LOTRO with AA.)
Apologies to anyone who doesn't need to see this, but Filthred did ask for proof. Here's me getting 60FPS in beta. (I don't usually run around with my fps meter on, but decided to see what I was getting during the Griffon Event when people were having problems with lag/chugging due to the massive amount of players in one area on griffons.)
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
*shrugs* to each their own, but it's a moot argument. You're attempting to compare Vanguard vs a game that literally is 10x less texture intensive. LOTRO is on par, if not a little above WoW (which Vanguard models/textures are 16x the size of according to the devs).
So yea... no joke you're getting better performance in LOTRO. That's like saying a Ferrari performs better than a Pinto.
I'd have to agree. To a large point, graphics are a subjective medium. Personally I liked the WoW graphics which many other people didn't.
The DDO engine, which appears to be used in LOTRO, is quite far off from the Vanguard (Unreal) engine in complexity. As Phyluxia pointed out, the textures alone are far smaller and I imagine the models are far more simplified. Thus it's no surprise that people will have an easier time with performance in LOTRO than VG.
I don't know if I would use Ferrari and Pinto as an analogy. Perhaps I would say it's like complaining that a Jet Engine uses more fuel than a lawnmower engine. They're just at two different levels of technology.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well... I hope Brad turns VG around and it thrives. I really, honestly do. I will play it if it ever happens. I own it, I preordered it and as the days passed and I played more and more, i got more and more pissed off. Releasing a game early is one thing, this was a disgrace though in my opinion.
For now, having played both games at their highest settings (LotRO with the pre-order DvD install and high res textures), I think LotRO did a spectacular job with the engine and graphics. The fact that they did it with less poly's and therefore needing less power to run smoothly is just a bonus, either way the world looks so much better than VG's that it's not even funny. Of course, you are right, this is my opinion and graphical quality is very subjective. So, I will stick with the better looking game for me, because it's also polished to a point that other devs should seriously look at with a learning eye. To those that don't... shame on them.
Hey Blurr was that shot of the griffin taken from Microsoft Flight simulator? Those texture are horrible. Thanks for the Vanguard screens though, I had almost forgotten how bad that games graphics are. Still no anti alias in the game either judging from those jaggies.
Also Blurr have the Elves practicing their archery in that high elf starter area got any bow strings or arrows yet? Lat time I saw them on release day the bows did not bend or have any arrows. Poor elves, Brad can't even give them bowstrings or arrows. Maybe he will put some in at the same time he figures out that most modern games have anti alias.
I miss DAoC
Guess I'll take zones and lower poly-counts, hands down. I thought this screen shot of Vanguard sums up my impression of it awfully well. This is the trade-off for being so high-res, and zone-free?
"Cacophony of daily life," huh? Guess I lack imagination.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Hey man, I don't mind the fact that you're a full on Vanguard troll, I really don't. You keep things interesting and are usually kind of funny and smart. But would you at least be a decent guy? I cannot believe you are still on about the friggin bows in the starter area not having strings. Seriously that's pathetic. And I know you're a complete fan of LotRO, but can you honestly say that Vanguards graphics are bad? They are anything but bad, please have a tiny shred of objectivity.
Vanguard's performance leaves something to be desired, but the graphics do not.
Dude, give us all a break. FIrst of all, that screen is obviously taken at lowest setting, and secondly, could you have found a crappier place and time to take a screenshot? If that screenshot is your impression of Vanguard, then with the amount of time you spent playing it judging by your xfire signature, you would have to be mentally challenged.
Here is a much better impression of Vanguards world. They aren't the clearest as they are just jpgs from the ssbin, but they show something besides some alley in khal.
It's taken at the default settings. "Balanced," but there's also some JPG compression there. I reset to default because I had problems crashing, and thought it might help. And the shot was just taken as I entered Ahgram, and read the text message about it.
As for why I've played it so much, well, it's not all bad, there are some things I do like about it, of course, and honestly, I'm very bored. And sure, maybe a little mentally challened, too
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Hey man, I don't mind the fact that you're a full on Vanguard troll, I really don't. You keep things interesting and are usually kind of funny and smart. But would you at least be a decent guy? I cannot believe you are still on about the friggin bows in the starter area not having strings. Seriously that's pathetic. And I know you're a complete fan of LotRO, but can you honestly say that Vanguards graphics are bad? They are anything but bad, please have a tiny shred of objectivity.
Vanguard's performance leaves something to be desired, but the graphics do not.
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
The definition of graphics means the textures, the animations,the art style and the performance. Not just saying oooohhh look at the draw distance. A few nice landscapes do not a good graphics make, Vanguard has a nice draw distance and some of the areas look very good however the overall package sucks..
edit by the way that horse in that screenshot has to be the ugliest thing I have ever seen, I would not post that one to show off Vanguards graphics if I were you. The feet are absolutely deformed and I am not sure if that is it's tail or if it is taking a dump while running. Another hint go to your drivers and force Anti Alias on, I know Sigil still has to figure out how to get that into the graphics menu but those jaggies are straight out of EQ1. Also how about doing a few with FRAPS or the ingame FPS meter enabled if you want to have any credibility.
I miss DAoC