I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?
Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing?
Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?
Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing?
Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel.
Although we are going off-topic I do not agree with diplomacy being a senseless grind. The nice thing about diplomacy are the buffs for the towns and you get to know a lot of lore. But for some, e.g. Xalrythx, this isnt a priority I see.
Although we are going off-topic I do not agree with diplomacy being a senseless grind. The nice thing about diplomacy are the buffs for the towns and you get to know a lot of lore. But for some, e.g. Xalrythx, this isnt a priority I see.
Yeah, time to steer it back on topic, no use in getting into gameplay other than how performance and bugs have prevented what could have been great experiences, at least for me in Vanguard.
LOTRO didn't set out to create the most technically geared MMO, and in that have achieved more than Vanguard has by miles. They focused on creating a game that looks great and runs smoothly on current machines. They don't alienate players who don't have 5000 dollar machines to play the game at adequate graphics with decent perfomance. In doing this they could focus their attention on important things- beautiful lighting, lively details, vibrant textures (with far better application than Vanguard), etc, etc. Also, because they did not strive to create the largest landscape, every inch of LOTRO is crafted at such a high detail, even in Beta this game has great attention to detail in their texture placement, world objects, etc. And all of this has allowed the game great performance on mid-range PCs while still allowing players to set their settings higher. This is quality over quantity and dominating.
Vangaurd fails in that its strive to be the most technically geared MMO to date it has succumbed to the inability to fully realize the graphics. Because of this, you get an overbright world where the exterior lighting is HORRIBLE. The textures appear washed out and you get little sense of depth because there are almost no shadows to be seen. All objects seem to be affected by light the same way - and even appear to have multiple lights in the exterior that shine on faces that are facing opposites- doesn't work. On top of this, because they decided to make the world so huge, detailings were lost, many spaces can feel empty and lifeless - whose creation is only to expand the size of the world and not provide any quality experience. Another downfall in detailing due to the huge world is lack of care towards texture application. Most textures were applied seemingly rushed, it's hard to understand what I mean with this, but there is little to no creativity in textures and a rushed application to the base mesh. Also , even today I walked through the halls of Khal and saw flickering textures in rooms- seemingly conflicting textures. And the problem with all of this is a game that performs horrible on even state of the art computers when attempting to increase their settings. The game simply can't handle itself because they tried too much and failed in many many creating a negative chain reaction. This is quantity over quality and failing.
Sorry but I'd have to agree in that jackdogs images are just quite bland. The whole LOTRO has a (as someone else put it) flaccid and "previous generation" feel to it. I mean half of the screenshots people put up look like they came from DDO or AC2. Jackdog says his machine takes bad screenshots, but more lilely that's cause he's a fanboy and the game itself just doesn't take good screenshots. I've only ever seen a handful of screenshots for LOTRO that looked anything half way worth of decent, and they could easily have been taken by the developers. People pass them around like they're the holy grail when the rest of the screenshots of the game (which far outnumber the decent looking ones) look like DDO had a mutant flipper baby. I'm sorry but that's just what you get when the devs make a bonehead decision to use an old engine from a game that flopped.
That is great you have your opinion , Until you can show us a video of you playing at ultra high setting in Vanguard , both you posts are flames and trolls.
{ Mod Edit }
What I will do is post an image I took from beta, on max settings. 1920x1280 format, everything at max. Anyone (even the haters) will tell you that VG's performance has only improved since beta as well. (And for the record, a few people tout AA as being a problem for VG. While it's true that AA isn't in the game yet, when you're playing the game you won't notice cause it still looks beautiful. Just goes to show you that AA, which will be added in to VG eventually, doesn't make that big of a difference if the rest of the engine falls flat like the DDO engine being used for LOTRO. This is part of the reason why VG with no AA can still look way better than LOTRO with AA.)
Apologies to anyone who doesn't need to see this, but Filthred did ask for proof. Here's me getting 60FPS in beta. (I don't usually run around with my fps meter on, but decided to see what I was getting during the Griffon Event when people were having problems with lag/chugging due to the massive amount of players in one area on griffons.)
*Shivers* huh.... I'm so sorry - it is probably my own fault, my eyes must be over-sensitise or something, but I just cannot play anything without FSAA anymore this alone stopped my from playing Gothic3 as well (even though own it).
Even if the crappy performance and a the ugly colours in VG were fixed, I could still not play it with those disguting jagged edges.
Again, it could be my own fault... (not blind enough?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Well, after playing both LOTRO and Vaguard I have decided that despite the added bells and whistles of Vanguard, LOTRO has far superior graphics and performance, creating a much much MUCH more enjoyable experience. Vanguard, which has been out for about a month and a Half suffers dramatically from performance issues (like horrid framerates) even on the top-tier systems. In most games it's alright to try to decrease settings to for better performance, except in Vanguards case- this results in a game that looks just plain horrible. While I do admit that in some places the graphics of Vanguard are incfredible, but overall, pretty terrible when accounting for the extremely high system reqs along with such horrible performance. On top of that, the art direction is uninspired, and all in all is only alright. LOTRO takes a different approach to graphics, reminding me much of WoW. Though the game doesn't try to be the best (like Vanguard, which didn't work out considering what I said above) what it does present is excellent. The poly count is lower, but overall, the competent (basically excelling) performance of the engine more than makes up for this. It even makes the increased technology of Vanguard seem utterly pointless. Like WoW, this game does so much more with so much less than a game like Vanguard. LOTRO looks just plain great and when I can't get more than 10 FPS on my good system even on medium settings in Vanguard, I can crank the settings all the way up and still get excellent performance. I love the reflections in the water, and everything together just makes for a beautiful package. Another great detail is the distant trees, the blur creates a great effect, seriously, this catches my eyes all the time. It's funny, Vanguard has been out for a month and a half and LOTRO is still a month and a half away from launch and is dramatically more stable and this is the main reason why I love LOTRO more than Vanguard. The steep system requirements with less payoff than LOTRO makes Vanguards graphics and performance rediculous. So what do you all think?
When did you last play Vanguard?
Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max.
I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated.
The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy.
In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
See, the poster above me's sig is what bugs me about Vanguard graphics.
Why on earth is everything so plastic and shiny? Look at the dwarves beard, even his hair is solid and shiny! Hair doesnt shine!!! Its like having a load of plastic toys running around, which if you were making a game based on Toy Story, would be a winner, but for a game that boasts its realism in its graphics, is just plain wrong!!
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
See, the poster above me's sig is what bugs me about Vanguard graphics. Why on earth is everything so plastic and shiny? Look at the dwarves beard, even his hair is solid and shiny! Hair doesnt shine!!! Its like having a load of plastic toys running around, which if you were making a game based on Toy Story, would be a winner, but for a game that boasts its realism in its graphics, is just plain wrong!!
Yes, this was my problem with EQ2 as well (which, btw is a quite nice game, I liked it apart from GFX).
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
When did you last play Vanguard? Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max. I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated. The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy. In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
{ Mod Edit }
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
When did you last play Vanguard? Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max. I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated. The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy. In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
I don't mean to go off-topic but your the second VG fanboi to try and steer it the other way with nothing but false claims.
I don't see the connection. OP did not state when he last played VG and where his information is drawn from. I claimed that I have NOT played Lotr and indicated my information is based on what i've read around various forums.
The difference is...HIS information is incorrect. ....MY information is not as it is too consistant accross too many forum threads.
You can feel free to correct me where I am wrong....that is the point of these boards. No need to get hostile about it though..take a chill pill there matey. You responded as if I offended your lover or something.
When did you last play Vanguard? Today- actually Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max. Good for you. You are of the very very small minority who has this luck. I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated. The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy. I love how you say I exaggerate and then spew out that garbage underneath it. Game isn't as small as you may think. It's not the waste of space Vanguard is, but it is adequate and well crafted in every inch. See my last post. Turbine has stated they plan on updating it frequently (I believe this too based on the changes made to the world in Beta alone. This is fine by me- I'd rather have a smaller world with quality/polished content that a large empty bug-ridden one any day. And the updates wil only provide more quality. How will Vanguard expand it's world? Probably only by filling in the empty space that's already there- and there is quite a bit. In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
Why on earth would I lie? Seriously, why would any of us lie. I had no part in the creation of either game, so what the hell would be the point in lying. I am stating my beliefs, gathered through hands-on experience with both, regarding the graphical and performance related difference between LOTRO and Vanguard. I wanted Vanguard to succeed, but it's problems (bugs/performance/graphics)- even acknowledged by the devs- are what drove me away. Up until the stress test, I wouldn't give a Turbine game the time of day. But seeing the state it was in during it and continuing to see it in Beta only shows that Turbine is on the ball providing a great looking game WITH excellent bug-free performance.
When did you last play Vanguard? Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max. I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated. The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy. In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
I don't mean to go off-topic but your the second VG fanboi to try and steer it the other way with nothing but false claims.
I don't see the connection. OP did not state when he last played VG and where his information is drawn from. I claimed that I have NOT played Lotr and indicated my information is based on what i've read around various forums.
The difference is...HIS information is incorrect. ....MY information is not as it is too consistant accross too many forum threads.
You can feel free to correct me where I am wrong....that is the point of these boards. No need to get hostile about it though..take a chill pill there matey. You responded as if I offended your lover or something.
Here's an idea, try LotR, then talk as much as you want about it. I found that guys post to be quite truthful, his experiance is like alot of the other people that have tryed and been dissapointed with VSoH. VSoH performance may have improved, but it is nowhere near the level of good, LotR is in beta and has improved performance.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Well Blurr, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It's not like I am making a blind statement, I've played both. In MY OPINION LotRO beats out VG's graphics when both are on their highest settings. In YOU'R OPINION VG's beats out LotRO's... I see nothing wrong with either outlook since I will ultimately play what I like and you will play what you like... But I do know this. Buying the game and cancelling in order to get into the OPEN beta is insane. It's OPEN for crying out loud. People will get in without buying the game... I mean yeah, there's limited accounts, but most folks will get in. All buying the game early does (as far as beta in concerned) is allow you to carry over your charcaters into retail, and for that to be important to someone, they probably intend to play the game after release, don't you think? So I don't think you are correct on your assumption here, but just like you... I am guessing. It;s all we can do until the game launches and we see what happens.
I'm perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree. I can certainly understand why some people would play LOTRO over VG. I also know that I'm one of a small percentage of people who has a machine that can really play VG with the settings it was meant to be played with. Thus I see all the beauty and amazing graphics that aren't quite so apparent to people with older machines. Personally I think LOTRO looks like a rehashed piece of garbage, but that's not to say other people won't like it. Infact I would go so far as to say that turbine did the best with what they had.
The problem is it simply doesn't make sense to compare the two equally in graphics. VG's engine is incredibly powerful and complex, being able to draw kilometers of terrain and have things actually running around at that distance, drakes flying way over head, etc. As such though, it needs a more powerful system. LOTRO's engine is far more simplistic, with focus on perfomance. The world is tiny, there are apparently very few spell effects. The textures are much smaller, the models are much simpler, and the graphics are limited by trying to achieve a certain level of performance across the board. Since I'm above the threshhold of the level of machine that VG was aiming for, they are both entirely different worlds for me compared to the one that you might see. Since I don't need to worry about performance, I expect a much higher level of quality with the general graphics. That's where LOTRO falls far short for me, and many others.
That's one of the reasons I usually stay away from posts like "X vs. Y" because in general, they tend to be nothing more than a bash-fest as if both games can't exist without killing eachother. The market is clearly big enought to support both games in addition to all the ones that are out there. And let's not kid ourselves, it's not like either game will likely be as popular as WoW.
Regarding people ordering the game just for the preorder benefits, there was another thing I forgot to add:
Special Membership Pricing: You will qualify for special membership pricing that allows you to choose the pricing plan to best suit your needs:
- $9.99 Monthly Subscription Fee ~OR~ $199 Lifetime Membership Fee, a one-time payment which eliminates the monthly subscription fees
People can order the game, get the preorder code, and then get their money back if they cancel. By doing this they can also lock in their 'founder' status, and then only have to pay the 9.99 fee, or no fees at all. Certainly a good reason to do whatever you need in order to get the preorder code. I wouldn't be surprised if the account sellers weren't doing this too, I'm sure you could get more money for a founder account than a regular account.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well, I listed my machines specs. I ran VG on it's highest settings and saw what you see. I simply did not think it was anything special and in some areas I thought it was pretty bad. On day one, I ran completely smooth on the highest settings. By day 30 I couldn't even run this game on the lowest settings smoothly.
I have been playing mmorpgs since M59 and UO launched and have played every major mmorpg to date (except WWII) and I just didn't see this "complex" engine that you speak of in VG. I saw a half baked game that tried hard to have little bounderies and for that I applaud Brad, I like people who set their dreams high, and like I said earlier, I really hope that someday he reaches those dreams.
You can try to convince people all you want, anyone who jumps into the open beta will see for themselves.
I was a big fan of Brad. I LOVED EQ1 and I HATED WoW. And yet, here I am playing a far more polished game in LotRO. This isn't the way I wanted it to be, I jumped on VG the moment it went on sale as a pre-order, sucker that I am.
Also, you still need a retail key at release. Cancelling a pre-order will not get you the special pricing and won;t get anyone who buys it special pricing without another key from a launch box. It's just not happening the way you think it is, but go on thinking you are right... it's all good.
It doesn't sound like you have played LotRO recently. You asked a bunch of questions (mocking JD) earlier and the answer to most of them was "yes, LotRO has that". You would have known that stuff had you been playing it lately. So you are not comparing apples to apples unless you are running the DvD preorder textures, and therefore your comparison is flawed. Not that your angle isn;t so one sided that you'd even see the difference, but I HAVE played both on their highest settings, and LotRO is the clear winner imo and that has nothing to do with our machines.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.I'm not talking about the players, but the graphics and activities going on by the environment. In otherwords, High-performance Graphics + Active environment = Laggy server. Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing? Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel. You've still missed the point I was trying to make. As matter of fact, there's picture of a dwarf from VG in this topic you should look at and then compare it to the dwarves of LotR. VG dwarves and character seem to have what you would call more "layers." They are more "whole" so to speak where as the dwarves of LotR are missing those same layers. I also notice you can't swim, the fighting swings are missing animations, instance houses and dungeons, etc. There's a lot missing that I've seen a lot of other MMORPGs handle well. Which is why I said at what price is LotR paying for good design and performance?
I'm going to have to go with Vanguard on this one. Having played both games at max settings, I have to say that lotro doesn't even hold a candle to VG. On one hand you have a highly detailed world modeled after, and using art from, the styles of great artists like Keith Parkinson (who practically invented the look of Fantasy, R.I.P.) and BROM. While on the other hand you have a rehash of the DDO client with it's weak and lifeless modeling, flaccid graphics, and limited ability to use newer technology. All you have to do is look at the elf starting area in lotro. I know it's cool seeing Elrond skate around without moving his feet, but when you actulaly get into the game world it looks like ass, or atleast it did when I played it on max settings a couple weeks ago. Now I know the fanboys like jackdog will claim that I don't have the hi-res client, or that the beautiful stuff is all out in the world past the newbie areas. My argument to that would be that if they arent giving me the hi-res client then they don't want me to see all this beautiful stuff that is suposedly there. So instead I am unimpressed by the "piss poor" client they gave me. Also if all the beautiful stuff is out in the world far away from the noob areas, how do they expect me to get hooked on the game? Again the first thing they're showing me is a bunch of poor graphics. If they want me to get hooked on the game, they should be showing me the beautiful stuff right at the start.
If you're running the game at max settings, why not use the hires client? Not sure how you can compare graphics when you're not actually using the proper client. You do realize that LOTRO is still in beta? VG launched almost two months ago.
LOTRO has some of the most impressive graphics around. I've seen Vanguard in action.. and to be honest.. how can you even comment on LOTRO when VG can't even run well enough to show the "ground breaking 3rd generation" graphics?
LOTRO has a perfect balance... incredible graphics and incredible performance. I'd sacrfice poly count for performance any day. "Piss poor" client? I think you're referring to the wrong game.
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Mithrandolir, I think you're just not seeing it simply because of your position.
With a name like yours and attempts to insult anyone who speaks against LOTRO, I think it's fair to say that you're quite the "hardcore fan" of LOTRO, or perhaps "Fanboy" as some would say. The problem with that, much like Jackdog has, is that in that state anything that Turbine does is viewed as gold, while anyone who says otherwise gets called a troll. I mean it's easy to see the graphics points I bring up that simply get ignored because you don't want to admit that the game might not actually be as great as you say.
I'm gonna guess that you haven't played VG recently (shocker), to see all the performance improvements that have come through. I've continually run VG smoothly since beta, and it's only improved.
I don't really need to convince people about LOTRO simply because, outside of this forum, the general public doesn't seem to be that impressed with it. As far as the EBGames "best seller" list (where LOTRO sits next to Pokemon Diamond, oddly enough), someone should tell them to start charging to get that list, because if you and Jackdog are right, then it's the golden goose which predicts hard facts about the gaming industry and sets in stone the future of a game. Personally I'm a little more open minded about where I get my information on "best sellers" from. Specifically, I prefer to listen to what people in the general community say, which is less than excited about the game.
Have I played LOTRO recently? Well I played it about 3 weeks ago and then I uninstalled it after 2 seperate attempts to get into the game. Honestly, the graphics were so bland and poor, I thought I'd installed one of those cookie-cutter asian imports that pop up every now and then. It wasn't until I saw Elrond scating around and one-shotting a troll that I realized I really was in LOTRO. Did I try the high-res texture client? Nope, simply because they won't give it to me until I fork over some cash. That's not really how things should be done if you want to entice people into the game. In addition, I haven't found the high-res screenshots I've seen to be that impressive either. I didn't see any of the 'polish' you talk about in LOTRO, I didn't see any of the 'attention to detail'. What I saw was, imo, a poorly made attempt to slap LOTR onto an existing engine in order for a quick buck. A point that's reinforced by the "$200 for a lifetime membership" deal. Someone suggested to me that it's so Turbine can get the money before anyone realizes how tiny and limited the game is. Obviously I haven't seen how small the LOTRO game world really is, but I certainly hear about it alot, which makes me wonder.
I can see why you would like LOTRO over anything else though. I imagine all a game would have to do to win that battle would be to have "LOTR" stamped on the side. I mean it's quite evident you're definately a hardcore LOTR fan, as such you'd clearly like a LOTR game better than any other. Please continue to enjoy the game though, you've found something that you like, and that's great. I mean, that's what we're supposed to be doing, having fun right? You really don't need to get so worked up about either game. Have fun and relax.
I simply couldn't have any fun playing a game where the graphics made me feel like it was a get-rich-quick scam to slap LOTR content onto DDO to exploit the IP, getting people to fork over $200 before they realized the game is so limited.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
This is about the mmost absorb post so far, and yes I reported has flaming. To gicve you my computer specs
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him! Lastera is nothing but a Turbine hating troll. Every post I have seen of his about LOTRO or even Asheron's Call has been reported. Or at least it always says that when I try to report him for trolling. He never provides anything contructive to a thread and instead always throws out rediculous comments that more often than not are lies.
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river. I was able to play the LOTR on my other crappy computer on the highest setting, which is 5 year outdated. You know you don't get good performance unless you are missing quite few features to reduce lag. Trolling is saying things that indirectly insult people to get them upset. { Mod Edit }
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
Aren't you also the person who tried to start the rumor about a month ago that duel wielding was broken in the game, yet could not prove it?
Really.. you should gear your posts more towards a game that you actually like rather than spreading untrue rumors about a game that you obviously have issues with.
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Mithrandolir, I think you're just not seeing it simply because of your position. With a name like yours and attempts to insult anyone who speaks against LOTRO, I think it's fair to say that you're quite the "hardcore fan" of LOTRO, or perhaps "Fanboy" as some would say. The problem with that, much like Jackdog has, is that in that state anything that Turbine does is viewed as gold, while anyone who says otherwise gets called a troll. I mean it's easy to see the graphics points I bring up that simply get ignored because you don't want to admit that the game might not actually be as great as you say. I'm gonna guess that you haven't played VG recently (shocker), to see all the performance improvements that have come through. I've continually run VG smoothly since beta, and it's only improved. I don't really need to convince people about LOTRO simply because, outside of this forum, the general public doesn't seem to be that impressed with it. As far as the EBGames "best seller" list (where LOTRO sits next to Pokemon Diamond, oddly enough), someone should tell them to start charging to get that list, because if you and Jackdog are right, then it's the golden goose which predicts hard facts about the gaming industry and sets in stone the future of a game. Personally I'm a little more open minded about where I get my information on "best sellers" from. Specifically, I prefer to listen to what people in the general community say, which is less than excited about the game. Have I played LOTRO recently? Well I played it about 3 weeks ago and then I uninstalled it after 2 seperate attempts to get into the game. Honestly, the graphics were so bland and poor, I thought I'd installed one of those cookie-cutter asian imports that pop up every now and then. It wasn't until I saw Elrond scating around and one-shotting a troll that I realized I really was in LOTRO. Did I try the high-res texture client? Nope, simply because they won't give it to me until I fork over some cash. That's not really how things should be done if you want to entice people into the game. In addition, I haven't found the high-res screenshots I've seen to be that impressive either. I didn't see any of the 'polish' you talk about in LOTRO, I didn't see any of the 'attention to detail'. What I saw was, imo, a poorly made attempt to slap LOTR onto an existing engine in order for a quick buck. A point that's reinforced by the "$200 for a lifetime membership" deal. Someone suggested to me that it's so Turbine can get the money before anyone realizes how tiny and limited the game is. Obviously I haven't seen how small the LOTRO game world really is, but I certainly hear about it alot, which makes me wonder. I can see why you would like LOTRO over anything else though. I imagine all a game would have to do to win that battle would be to have "LOTR" stamped on the side. I mean it's quite evident you're definately a hardcore LOTR fan, as such you'd clearly like a LOTR game better than any other. Please continue to enjoy the game though, you've found something that you like, and that's great. I mean, that's what we're supposed to be doing, having fun right? You really don't need to get so worked up about either game. Have fun and relax. I simply couldn't have any fun playing a game where the graphics made me feel like it was a get-rich-quick scam to slap LOTR content onto DDO to exploit the IP, getting people to fork over $200 before they realized the game is so limited.
Ok so we ignore the "best seller" hype as you say because it can't be trusted. What about all of hte forums where it is widely talked about and is hyped as a most anticipated game? Here on MMORPG it is tied for 2nd place for most anticipated. Over on 1up.com it rated as Hot. So where are these large amounts of people in the community that are less then excited by the game? I know it is not the people currenlty beta testing the game. As a recent poll on the beta forums shows 44% are buying the game with the lifetime subscription and 43 % are buying the game with the 9.99 monthly fee. So 87% of the people polled so far are buying the game with only 4% saying they weren't. The remaining 9 % hadn't made up their mind yet. So that seems like a pretty positive excitement about the game. Then if we do include the fact that it has been selling well for the last 3-4 months it seems to me like there is a lot of excitement about the game.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
You've still missed the point I was trying to make. As matter of fact, there's picture of a dwarf from VG in this topic you should look at and then compare it to the dwarves of LotR. VG dwarves and character seem to have what you would call more "layers." They are more "whole" so to speak where as the dwarves of LotR are missing those same layers. I also notice you can't swim, the fighting swings are missing animations, instance houses and dungeons, etc. There's a lot missing that I've seen a lot of other MMORPGs handle well. Which is why I said at what price is LotR paying for good design and performance?
I'd rather have less "layers", than be playing a game that sacrifices performance for more polygons.
Not sure which game you're talking about with the missing animations. Have yet to see any of that in LOTRO. As for instanced houses and dungeons.... whatever it takes to keep performance up along with high graphics settings, I'm all for.
Wow.. you mean there's no swimming in VG? You should see it in LOTRO... the water movement is incredible when you're swimming and if you go backwards, you do the backstroke!
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Mithrandolir was a name I used in a 1984 table top D&D campaign. I read LotR for the first time ever in 1991, until then I never knew anything about it.
When VG released, I wasn't even considering LotRO. Not even remotely. I played VG until 3/4 (from 3 days prior to release). So I played for over a month and up until 2.5 weeks ago. Sure they've fixed somethings since then, how could they not? The game was a wreck at release. Blind monkeys could have accidentally coded at least a few fixes if given a couple weeks of keystrokes. It was VG's state of garbage at release (the first 30 days or so) that made me look elsewhere, Go for it, find me any relation from myself to LotR on these boards or any other, prior to about 2 weeks ago. You can't, because I had no interest. So assume whatever you want about my name, you are wrong on all levels.
I am truly happy that you love Vanguard. I was in a guild of 200 players on Florendyl and almost 100% of them had major issues at release. Most of these guys/gals are hard core gamers with serious rigs. The fact that you can say that you have been playing smoothly since beta tells me all I need to know about you. You seriously crack me up, for that i thank you. Comic relief is a good thing.
LotR runs well only because a few FPs and animations are missing from the game. This has been address several times in this forums that LotR is missing animation. That's primarily the reason the game runs well. And again, the reason people love LotR gameplay over some of the other games is because the people who playing the game have outdate computer. I mean how people can say they have a computer with Windows Vista, GeForce 6800, DSL/cable and Intel process? Many of those people who give bad reviews to games or bad compares are people who more than likely don't have a good function and updated computer.
This is about the mmost absorb post so far, and yes I reported has flaming. To gicve you my computer specs
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him! Lastera is nothing but a Turbine hating troll. Every post I have seen of his about LOTRO or even Asheron's Call has been reported. Or at least it always says that when I try to report him for trolling. He never provides anything contructive to a thread and instead always throws out rediculous comments that more often than not are lies.
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river. I was able to play the LOTR on my other crappy computer on the highest setting, which is 5 year outdated. You know you don't get good performance unless you are missing quite few features to reduce lag. Trolling is saying things that indirectly insult people to get them upset. { Mod Edit }
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
Aren't you also the person who tried to start the rumor
Actually, you and the other LotR fans have been doing is trolling and flaming people who note a bug or say they dislike something about the game. You and the other people here believe if you all disagree with someone, everything that person says is like. I actually tasted dual wielding myself. It's broke. The weapon speed are broke once you start dual wielding because the animation of dual wielding are the same one used in DDO. Put a knife with a 1.0 and put axe with 3.5 speed, and you see you are always strike with both at the same. Now play World of Warcraft and use dual wielding and you'll see there how and why dual wielding is broke. Because of this, you guys are losing dps, not gaining any from dual wielding. I'm better off using a two-handed weapon as oppose to using two weapons because I'll be doing the same damage.
Had you even tested it out for yourself, you would see that. But again, you guys do nothing more than sit around and disagree with people who assume are being negative about the game, flaming and trolling.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
You've still missed the point I was trying to make. As matter of fact, there's picture of a dwarf from VG in this topic you should look at and then compare it to the dwarves of LotR. VG dwarves and character seem to have what you would call more "layers." They are more "whole" so to speak where as the dwarves of LotR are missing those same layers. I also notice you can't swim, the fighting swings are missing animations, instance houses and dungeons, etc. There's a lot missing that I've seen a lot of other MMORPGs handle well. Which is why I said at what price is LotR paying for good design and performance?
I'd rather have less "layers", than be playing a game that sacrifices performance for more polygons.
Not sure which game you're talking about with the missing animations. Have yet to see any of that in LOTRO. As for instanced houses and dungeons.... whatever it takes to keep performance up along with high graphics settings, I'm all for.
Anybody who isn't fanboying can see the animation in the swing aren't full swing animation. Walking animation is messed up for humans (We've already had a few complaints about this on the board for this not to be true.), NPC are not complete 3D (I'm spin my camera NPC and no, they aren't in 3D), the houses are instanced. (You even have to load into a small room.) This only a few of the crap that goes in the game and this all happen on high setting.
Wow.. you mean there's no swimming in VG? You should see it in LOTRO... the water movement is incredible when you're swimming and if you go backwards, you do the backstroke!
Actually, I mean to say you can't swim underwater and it also explains why many of the enemies don't swim (Human and dog NPC will swim) and why they had to put on the anti-exploit mode. Because they missing frame and animations that allow them to swim properly. Hell, some enemies can't go through certain door without the anti-exploit mode coming on.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.I'm not talking about the players, but the graphics and activities going on by the environment. In otherwords, High-performance Graphics + Active environment = Laggy server. Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing? Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel. You've still missed the point I was trying to make. As matter of fact, there's picture of a dwarf from VG in this topic you should look at and then compare it to the dwarves of LotR. VG dwarves and character seem to have what you would call more "layers." They are more "whole" so to speak where as the dwarves of LotR are missing those same layers. I also notice you can't swim, the fighting swings are missing animations, instance houses and dungeons, etc. There's a lot missing that I've seen a lot of other MMORPGs handle well. Which is why I said at what price is LotR paying for good design and performance?
If you would have read my post, you would have notice this "If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game".
The fact that you say WE are flaming and trolling proves you have nothing decent to say on any forum other than a VG one. You say there is no swimming in LotRO? Seriously your posts just prove your stupidity and lack of knowledge tenfold everytime you speak.
You don't know what instancing is. The housing is NOT instanced. If you don't understand why this is true, then maybe you should play more mmo's than VG instead of trying to show everyone how dumb you can be.
There are no missing animations and you can't prove me otherwise.
When all you do is talk shit that's when your a troll, you have absoulutely no facts surrounding your rediculous statements.
VG is NOT high-performance, my PC runs oblivion fairly well, what your going to tell me there is not much going on in oblivions world? But my PC has to run VG on under balanced to get decent FPS. What your going to tell me my PC is crap?
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Comments
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?
Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing?
Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?
Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing?
Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel.
Although we are going off-topic I do not agree with diplomacy being a senseless grind. The nice thing about diplomacy are the buffs for the towns and you get to know a lot of lore. But for some, e.g. Xalrythx, this isnt a priority I see.
Yeah, time to steer it back on topic, no use in getting into gameplay other than how performance and bugs have prevented what could have been great experiences, at least for me in Vanguard.
LOTRO didn't set out to create the most technically geared MMO, and in that have achieved more than Vanguard has by miles. They focused on creating a game that looks great and runs smoothly on current machines. They don't alienate players who don't have 5000 dollar machines to play the game at adequate graphics with decent perfomance. In doing this they could focus their attention on important things- beautiful lighting, lively details, vibrant textures (with far better application than Vanguard), etc, etc. Also, because they did not strive to create the largest landscape, every inch of LOTRO is crafted at such a high detail, even in Beta this game has great attention to detail in their texture placement, world objects, etc. And all of this has allowed the game great performance on mid-range PCs while still allowing players to set their settings higher. This is quality over quantity and dominating.
Vangaurd fails in that its strive to be the most technically geared MMO to date it has succumbed to the inability to fully realize the graphics. Because of this, you get an overbright world where the exterior lighting is HORRIBLE. The textures appear washed out and you get little sense of depth because there are almost no shadows to be seen. All objects seem to be affected by light the same way - and even appear to have multiple lights in the exterior that shine on faces that are facing opposites- doesn't work. On top of this, because they decided to make the world so huge, detailings were lost, many spaces can feel empty and lifeless - whose creation is only to expand the size of the world and not provide any quality experience. Another downfall in detailing due to the huge world is lack of care towards texture application. Most textures were applied seemingly rushed, it's hard to understand what I mean with this, but there is little to no creativity in textures and a rushed application to the base mesh. Also , even today I walked through the halls of Khal and saw flickering textures in rooms- seemingly conflicting textures. And the problem with all of this is a game that performs horrible on even state of the art computers when attempting to increase their settings. The game simply can't handle itself because they tried too much and failed in many many creating a negative chain reaction. This is quantity over quality and failing.
{ Mod Edit }
What I will do is post an image I took from beta, on max settings. 1920x1280 format, everything at max. Anyone (even the haters) will tell you that VG's performance has only improved since beta as well. (And for the record, a few people tout AA as being a problem for VG. While it's true that AA isn't in the game yet, when you're playing the game you won't notice cause it still looks beautiful. Just goes to show you that AA, which will be added in to VG eventually, doesn't make that big of a difference if the rest of the engine falls flat like the DDO engine being used for LOTRO. This is part of the reason why VG with no AA can still look way better than LOTRO with AA.)
Apologies to anyone who doesn't need to see this, but Filthred did ask for proof. Here's me getting 60FPS in beta. (I don't usually run around with my fps meter on, but decided to see what I was getting during the Griffon Event when people were having problems with lag/chugging due to the massive amount of players in one area on griffons.)
*Shivers* huh.... I'm so sorry - it is probably my own fault, my eyes must be over-sensitise or something, but I just cannot play anything without FSAA anymore
this alone stopped my from playing Gothic3 as well (even though own it).
Even if the crappy performance and a the ugly colours in VG were fixed, I could still not play it with those disguting jagged edges.
Again, it could be my own fault... (not blind enough?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
When did you last play Vanguard?
Game performance has been much, much improved over the past few weeks. I was online yesterday for about 6 hours and didn't crash once. I was getting 25-30 fps in town...in the most lag prone part of town ( smelters ) an a AMD 3500, 3gb ram, Nvid 6600. High performance settings BUT all the " good stuff " cranked up to 75% of max.
I think your information is a bit old and definetly exaggerated.
The screens of Lotr do look great however. No doubt it is a polished game and likely fun to play for the 40 hrs it takes to do everything and max level. It's not hard to have a super polished world if it's the size of a quarter , heavily instanced, and isn't trying to do anything fancy like trying to maintain 1000 square miles of a persistant and ongoing world. I haven't played Lotr..to be fair...but reports from all sides are the world IS small...and gameplay too easy.
In the end though...to each his own. Having fun online is what counts the most. Just don't keep spreading that lie that Vanguard is some kind of horrid , lag filled disater...because it's not. Launch was a bit rough...it's cleaning up very nicely now though. Vanguard is at the point NOW where it SHOULD have been at launch and is only going to get better !
See, the poster above me's sig is what bugs me about Vanguard graphics.
Why on earth is everything so plastic and shiny? Look at the dwarves beard, even his hair is solid and shiny! Hair doesnt shine!!! Its like having a load of plastic toys running around, which if you were making a game based on Toy Story, would be a winner, but for a game that boasts its realism in its graphics, is just plain wrong!!
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Yes, this was my problem with EQ2 as well (which, btw is a quite nice game, I liked it apart from GFX).
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
{ Mod Edit }
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
I don't mean to go off-topic but your the second VG fanboi to try and steer it the other way with nothing but false claims.
I don't see the connection. OP did not state when he last played VG and where his information is drawn from. I claimed that I have NOT played Lotr and indicated my information is based on what i've read around various forums.
The difference is...HIS information is incorrect. ....MY information is not as it is too consistant accross too many forum threads.
You can feel free to correct me where I am wrong....that is the point of these boards. No need to get hostile about it though..take a chill pill there matey. You responded as if I offended your lover or something.
Pls do not feed the father of all Vanbois - just look at his posts/threads - seems like a 24/7 PR job to me
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Mate you contridict yourself every five minutes.
First you claim that the poster above you stated information that is "definately exaggerated" then you spew the bullshit highlighted in RED above. Then you claim he is spreading lies. Wake up. You even said you havn't played the game even though you claimed what was you said in RED.
And you claim HE exaggerated information????
I don't mean to go off-topic but your the second VG fanboi to try and steer it the other way with nothing but false claims.
I don't see the connection. OP did not state when he last played VG and where his information is drawn from. I claimed that I have NOT played Lotr and indicated my information is based on what i've read around various forums.
The difference is...HIS information is incorrect. ....MY information is not as it is too consistant accross too many forum threads.
You can feel free to correct me where I am wrong....that is the point of these boards. No need to get hostile about it though..take a chill pill there matey. You responded as if I offended your lover or something.
Here's an idea, try LotR, then talk as much as you want about it. I found that guys post to be quite truthful, his experiance is like alot of the other people that have tryed and been dissapointed with VSoH. VSoH performance may have improved, but it is nowhere near the level of good, LotR is in beta and has improved performance.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I'm perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree. I can certainly understand why some people would play LOTRO over VG. I also know that I'm one of a small percentage of people who has a machine that can really play VG with the settings it was meant to be played with. Thus I see all the beauty and amazing graphics that aren't quite so apparent to people with older machines. Personally I think LOTRO looks like a rehashed piece of garbage, but that's not to say other people won't like it. Infact I would go so far as to say that turbine did the best with what they had.
The problem is it simply doesn't make sense to compare the two equally in graphics. VG's engine is incredibly powerful and complex, being able to draw kilometers of terrain and have things actually running around at that distance, drakes flying way over head, etc. As such though, it needs a more powerful system. LOTRO's engine is far more simplistic, with focus on perfomance. The world is tiny, there are apparently very few spell effects. The textures are much smaller, the models are much simpler, and the graphics are limited by trying to achieve a certain level of performance across the board. Since I'm above the threshhold of the level of machine that VG was aiming for, they are both entirely different worlds for me compared to the one that you might see. Since I don't need to worry about performance, I expect a much higher level of quality with the general graphics. That's where LOTRO falls far short for me, and many others.
That's one of the reasons I usually stay away from posts like "X vs. Y" because in general, they tend to be nothing more than a bash-fest as if both games can't exist without killing eachother. The market is clearly big enought to support both games in addition to all the ones that are out there. And let's not kid ourselves, it's not like either game will likely be as popular as WoW.
Regarding people ordering the game just for the preorder benefits, there was another thing I forgot to add:
Special Membership Pricing: You will qualify for special membership pricing that allows you to choose the pricing plan to best suit your needs:
- $9.99 Monthly Subscription Fee ~OR~ $199 Lifetime Membership Fee, a one-time payment which eliminates the monthly subscription fees
People can order the game, get the preorder code, and then get their money back if they cancel. By doing this they can also lock in their 'founder' status, and then only have to pay the 9.99 fee, or no fees at all. Certainly a good reason to do whatever you need in order to get the preorder code. I wouldn't be surprised if the account sellers weren't doing this too, I'm sure you could get more money for a founder account than a regular account.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well, I listed my machines specs. I ran VG on it's highest settings and saw what you see. I simply did not think it was anything special and in some areas I thought it was pretty bad. On day one, I ran completely smooth on the highest settings. By day 30 I couldn't even run this game on the lowest settings smoothly.
I have been playing mmorpgs since M59 and UO launched and have played every major mmorpg to date (except WWII) and I just didn't see this "complex" engine that you speak of in VG. I saw a half baked game that tried hard to have little bounderies and for that I applaud Brad, I like people who set their dreams high, and like I said earlier, I really hope that someday he reaches those dreams.
You can try to convince people all you want, anyone who jumps into the open beta will see for themselves.
I was a big fan of Brad. I LOVED EQ1 and I HATED WoW. And yet, here I am playing a far more polished game in LotRO. This isn't the way I wanted it to be, I jumped on VG the moment it went on sale as a pre-order, sucker that I am.
Also, you still need a retail key at release. Cancelling a pre-order will not get you the special pricing and won;t get anyone who buys it special pricing without another key from a launch box. It's just not happening the way you think it is, but go on thinking you are right... it's all good.
It doesn't sound like you have played LotRO recently. You asked a bunch of questions (mocking JD) earlier and the answer to most of them was "yes, LotRO has that". You would have known that stuff had you been playing it lately. So you are not comparing apples to apples unless you are running the DvD preorder textures, and therefore your comparison is flawed. Not that your angle isn;t so one sided that you'd even see the difference, but I HAVE played both on their highest settings, and LotRO is the clear winner imo and that has nothing to do with our machines.
VG may have more going on in their servers but that is hardly the real reason why it runs so poorly. Also LotR is in closed beta, wait till open beta when there are tonnes of more players then we will see. If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game.I'm not talking about the players, but the graphics and activities going on by the environment. In otherwords, High-performance Graphics + Active environment = Laggy server.
Compared to VG LotR is missing housing and ships. I don't count diplomacy as an innovative feature over LotR, more like a simple grind that achieves little to nothing. LotR is adding housing later, I have no idea about ships. The crafting systems are slightly different, LotR is more simple like WoW, VSoH is just overly-complicated. Crafting is a secondary thing for me anyway. LotR wins hands down with PvP, not only is PvP more interesting, it is actually quite balanced and there is an incentive for doing it, creating a monster (essentially a second character) is more than enough incentive. What incentive do you have in VSoH? Let us go gank some people? And receive nothing?
Turbine have a polished game in the end, they havn't sacrificed anything to get the game looking and running like a dream. They can focus on updating the actual game instead of fixing bugs/performance issues. Don't get me wrong I will proberly leave this game when the new mmos are released, but Turbine have done it right, and VG doesn't hold a candle to LotR potential. That is how I feel.
You've still missed the point I was trying to make. As matter of fact, there's picture of a dwarf from VG in this topic you should look at and then compare it to the dwarves of LotR. VG dwarves and character seem to have what you would call more "layers." They are more "whole" so to speak where as the dwarves of LotR are missing those same layers.
I also notice you can't swim, the fighting swings are missing animations, instance houses and dungeons, etc. There's a lot missing that I've seen a lot of other MMORPGs handle well. Which is why I said at what price is LotR paying for good design and performance?
If you're running the game at max settings, why not use the hires client? Not sure how you can compare graphics when you're not actually using the proper client. You do realize that LOTRO is still in beta? VG launched almost two months ago.
LOTRO has some of the most impressive graphics around. I've seen Vanguard in action.. and to be honest.. how can you even comment on LOTRO when VG can't even run well enough to show the "ground breaking 3rd generation" graphics?
LOTRO has a perfect balance... incredible graphics and incredible performance. I'd sacrfice poly count for performance any day. "Piss poor" client? I think you're referring to the wrong game.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Mithrandolir, I think you're just not seeing it simply because of your position.
With a name like yours and attempts to insult anyone who speaks against LOTRO, I think it's fair to say that you're quite the "hardcore fan" of LOTRO, or perhaps "Fanboy" as some would say. The problem with that, much like Jackdog has, is that in that state anything that Turbine does is viewed as gold, while anyone who says otherwise gets called a troll. I mean it's easy to see the graphics points I bring up that simply get ignored because you don't want to admit that the game might not actually be as great as you say.
I'm gonna guess that you haven't played VG recently (shocker), to see all the performance improvements that have come through. I've continually run VG smoothly since beta, and it's only improved.
I don't really need to convince people about LOTRO simply because, outside of this forum, the general public doesn't seem to be that impressed with it. As far as the EBGames "best seller" list (where LOTRO sits next to Pokemon Diamond, oddly enough), someone should tell them to start charging to get that list, because if you and Jackdog are right, then it's the golden goose which predicts hard facts about the gaming industry and sets in stone the future of a game. Personally I'm a little more open minded about where I get my information on "best sellers" from. Specifically, I prefer to listen to what people in the general community say, which is less than excited about the game.
Have I played LOTRO recently? Well I played it about 3 weeks ago and then I uninstalled it after 2 seperate attempts to get into the game. Honestly, the graphics were so bland and poor, I thought I'd installed one of those cookie-cutter asian imports that pop up every now and then. It wasn't until I saw Elrond scating around and one-shotting a troll that I realized I really was in LOTRO. Did I try the high-res texture client? Nope, simply because they won't give it to me until I fork over some cash. That's not really how things should be done if you want to entice people into the game. In addition, I haven't found the high-res screenshots I've seen to be that impressive either. I didn't see any of the 'polish' you talk about in LOTRO, I didn't see any of the 'attention to detail'. What I saw was, imo, a poorly made attempt to slap LOTR onto an existing engine in order for a quick buck. A point that's reinforced by the "$200 for a lifetime membership" deal. Someone suggested to me that it's so Turbine can get the money before anyone realizes how tiny and limited the game is. Obviously I haven't seen how small the LOTRO game world really is, but I certainly hear about it alot, which makes me wonder.
I can see why you would like LOTRO over anything else though. I imagine all a game would have to do to win that battle would be to have "LOTR" stamped on the side. I mean it's quite evident you're definately a hardcore LOTR fan, as such you'd clearly like a LOTR game better than any other. Please continue to enjoy the game though, you've found something that you like, and that's great. I mean, that's what we're supposed to be doing, having fun right? You really don't need to get so worked up about either game. Have fun and relax.
I simply couldn't have any fun playing a game where the graphics made me feel like it was a get-rich-quick scam to slap LOTR content onto DDO to exploit the IP, getting people to fork over $200 before they realized the game is so limited.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him!
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river.
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
Aren't you also the person who tried to start the rumor about a month ago that duel wielding was broken in the game, yet could not prove it?
Really.. you should gear your posts more towards a game that you actually like rather than spreading untrue rumors about a game that you obviously have issues with.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
I'd rather have less "layers", than be playing a game that sacrifices performance for more polygons.
Not sure which game you're talking about with the missing animations. Have yet to see any of that in LOTRO. As for instanced houses and dungeons.... whatever it takes to keep performance up along with high graphics settings, I'm all for.
Wow.. you mean there's no swimming in VG? You should see it in LOTRO... the water movement is incredible when you're swimming and if you go backwards, you do the backstroke!
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Blurr, nice try.
Mithrandolir was a name I used in a 1984 table top D&D campaign. I read LotR for the first time ever in 1991, until then I never knew anything about it.
When VG released, I wasn't even considering LotRO. Not even remotely. I played VG until 3/4 (from 3 days prior to release). So I played for over a month and up until 2.5 weeks ago. Sure they've fixed somethings since then, how could they not? The game was a wreck at release. Blind monkeys could have accidentally coded at least a few fixes if given a couple weeks of keystrokes. It was VG's state of garbage at release (the first 30 days or so) that made me look elsewhere, Go for it, find me any relation from myself to LotR on these boards or any other, prior to about 2 weeks ago. You can't, because I had no interest. So assume whatever you want about my name, you are wrong on all levels.
I am truly happy that you love Vanguard. I was in a guild of 200 players on Florendyl and almost 100% of them had major issues at release. Most of these guys/gals are hard core gamers with serious rigs. The fact that you can say that you have been playing smoothly since beta tells me all I need to know about you. You seriously crack me up, for that i thank you. Comic relief is a good thing.
amd 4200+ 64bit x2
7series gforce card
1gig of ram (I need another gig)
Sound blaster soundd w/EAX
dsl connect which is pretty dang stable and I prefer it over cable.
Your post is an insult and a flame/troll. Have fun in the Saga of Slideshow
You beat me to reporting him!
Trolling on the grounds of what? Saying that the game is missing a few FPs. Cry me a river.
It's well known that Turbine caters to a crowd who refuse to update their computers. Hell, a lot of game in MMORPG.com that have bad graphics or lack of FPs cater to a lot of people in MMORPG.com. I wonder why that is?
Aren't you also the person who tried to start the rumor
Actually, you and the other LotR fans have been doing is trolling and flaming people who note a bug or say they dislike something about the game. You and the other people here believe if you all disagree with someone, everything that person says is like. I actually tasted dual wielding myself. It's broke. The weapon speed are broke once you start dual wielding because the animation of dual wielding are the same one used in DDO. Put a knife with a 1.0 and put axe with 3.5 speed, and you see you are always strike with both at the same. Now play World of Warcraft and use dual wielding and you'll see there how and why dual wielding is broke. Because of this, you guys are losing dps, not gaining any from dual wielding. I'm better off using a two-handed weapon as oppose to using two weapons because I'll be doing the same damage.
Had you even tested it out for yourself, you would see that. But again, you guys do nothing more than sit around and disagree with people who assume are being negative about the game, flaming and trolling.
I'd rather have less "layers", than be playing a game that sacrifices performance for more polygons.
Not sure which game you're talking about with the missing animations. Have yet to see any of that in LOTRO. As for instanced houses and dungeons.... whatever it takes to keep performance up along with high graphics settings, I'm all for.
Anybody who isn't fanboying can see the animation in the swing aren't full swing animation. Walking animation is messed up for humans (We've already had a few complaints about this on the board for this not to be true.), NPC are not complete 3D (I'm spin my camera NPC and no, they aren't in 3D), the houses are instanced. (You even have to load into a small room.) This only a few of the crap that goes in the game and this all happen on high setting.
Wow.. you mean there's no swimming in VG? You should see it in LOTRO... the water movement is incredible when you're swimming and if you go backwards, you do the backstroke!
Actually, I mean to say you can't swim underwater and it also explains why many of the enemies don't swim (Human and dog NPC will swim) and why they had to put on the anti-exploit mode. Because they missing frame and animations that allow them to swim properly. Hell, some enemies can't go through certain door without the anti-exploit mode coming on.
If you would have read my post, you would have notice this "If you are refering to the game worlds, don't preach to me about VG's openess and the amount of activity, I found so many areas in VGs open world that were so lifeless and unreal, it's one of the reasons I quit the game".
The fact that you say WE are flaming and trolling proves you have nothing decent to say on any forum other than a VG one. You say there is no swimming in LotRO? Seriously your posts just prove your stupidity and lack of knowledge tenfold everytime you speak.
You don't know what instancing is. The housing is NOT instanced. If you don't understand why this is true, then maybe you should play more mmo's than VG instead of trying to show everyone how dumb you can be.
There are no missing animations and you can't prove me otherwise.
When all you do is talk shit that's when your a troll, you have absoulutely no facts surrounding your rediculous statements.
VG is NOT high-performance, my PC runs oblivion fairly well, what your going to tell me there is not much going on in oblivions world? But my PC has to run VG on under balanced to get decent FPS. What your going to tell me my PC is crap?
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Apparently you haven't seen a Pantene commercial....or a girl.