I have an old system, and I even went back to an older graphics card to give it to my son.
I like to play MMOs. I pay the subcriptions for 3 different MMOs for me and my children.
Why is all this hate about people with older systems?
I will upgrade my PC when I have the money and feel like it. I will buy whatever MMO that I feel I can play on my PC.
I was hoping to buy Vanguard, but as soon as I heard about performance I steered clear.
I have been able to play LOTRO with an old system and an old video card. I feel if I can turn down the graphics to low or very low and still play, I am happy. I don't care about the lighting on the waves or any of that. I care about gameplay.
Whenever I upgrade my PC, I will enjoy the better graphics of LOTRO (or other MMO).
For me (I know... you didn't ask ) the issue isn;t that VG's graphics aren't good... it's that they are so inefficient.
The amount of power it takes to render the end result is just not even close to being worth it to me.
Do the screenshots look nice? Sure they do. The art is awesome. I would never call the graphics "uninspiring" but I would say they certainly scale like crap. I mean, look at it this way... I get better performance in LotRO on the "Ultra High" settings (again.. this is with the high res textures installed) than I do in VG on the lowest settings. Now, have you seen VG on it's lowest settings? You should give it a look if you haven't. Then you will see the inefficiency.
I am running a mid level machine, brand new and self built (nothing gunking it up).
AMD 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+
2GB G-Skill ram DDRII 800
SATA 250GB HDD
BFG 7600GT OC'd edition
Not the best machine by a long shot, but I run Oblivion on it's highest settings without any issues at all. Now, I understand Oblivion isn't a mmorpg, but that's not the point. The point is simply that I get better performance in games like that on their highest setting than I do in VG on it's lowest... and again, please look at VG on it's lowest settings to see how it more closely resembles AC1 than anything other mmorpg to date (on those settings I mean).
Now, I did get a few days at release (in VG) on the highest settings. I stuttered a bit, but when not in Martok and not surrounded by tons of people, it was at least playable. I got to see the game looking it's best, and it wasn't "bad" it was just not breathtaking like some make it out to be (yeah, I know... opinions...). To me, LotRO IS breathtaking. It's fluent. It's alive. To each their own on this one though.
Now, when you take the amount of power it takes to render it, and combine the fact that lots of things were missing and broke at release (yeah they warned us, doesn't excuse the shape this thing shipped in imo) like Caravans, Fellowships, Helmets, Missives in Martok, Cloaks, etc... and other things like getting kicked off horses at chunk borders, being turned around at the same locations, mobs vanishing while fighting them, mobs not displaying the correct health bars in combat, players falling through the world to their deaths, all kinds of death related bugs (some of this stuff might be fixed now, but this is what i dealt with on day 1 through 30), rollbacks, crashes to desktop, being dropped from my group repeatedly, rubberbanding, etc... can you honestly question why some of us have a bug up our ass?
Nothing justifies that bull. Nothing.
Like I said, I will be more than happy if VG ends up rocking someday, for now though... they couldn;t pay me 15 bucks a month to play it.
An open lifeless, boring, colourless, boring, boring world. Did I mention it was boring?
I agree graphics are objective, it still doesn't change the fact the graphics in VSoH are extremely unvibrant. They don't jump out and grab my face and shake me like a rag-doll telling to me "look, look at how amazing I am!".
I will give you two examples of VSoH that made me come to my conclusion.
#1 The trees along coastal lines and water edges look like copy + paste jobs and feels very unimmersive.
#2 The NPCs in the game are literally lifeless, some areas are alot worse than others. Go do some exploring if you havn't already. You will find yourself coming across villages and towns with not a breath of life.
I will also add that VSoH looks no more realistic than WoW.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .
LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .
LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
Originally posted by xAlrythx I will also add that VSoH looks no more realistic than WoW.
Thus ending any credibility he had as a poster whatsoever. ROFL
Explain to me how exactly VSoH looks more realistic than any other game? The models look like plastic. Both games look how they look, they look how they are intended to look. They both go nowhere near the edge of realism, unless of course realism is just another word for what that particular game intended to look like.
At least put more effort into your posts, you could have at least tryed to explain why you think VSoH looks "real". But unfortunately your just quick to defend your token game, and you didn't actually think. Of course I could be proven wrong with a decent reply. All I know is that you can't say one game looks more realistic than another, because if you define realism that way, they both don't even scratch the surface of real world graphics, one is cartoon, one is plastic to be simple.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .
LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
/agree
However I hope this is not the case with Turbine.
LOL think you missed that one, Brad Mcquaid has only released one successful game, He is the Vanilla Ice of MMo Development.
The only reason EQ1 was successful was because their was no competition back then until Asherons Call and friends.
So by that I assume they still have not fixed the elves Anarchyart?
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
We are discussing graphics last I looked Anarchyart, part of the graphics are the animations. The elven archer animation is just one example of where Sigil did things half way and amateurish. A lot of little things done halfway and amateurish adds up to the game being done half way and amateurish. Brad was a one hit wonder as has been pointed out already, he was just in the right place at the right time with EQ. Vanguard has shown that he really needs to find a new line of work.
Paying attention to detail and making sure all the little things are done right is where Turbine has shined. LoTRO does not claim to be a third generation omygawd game, however they took all the little things and did them right and made them fun. That is why the best graphic of all is the EB Games PC sales chart where LoTRO has been number one for weeks now. One of my mentors used to tell me, take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves.
Hey Jackdog, quick couple of questions since I know they'll be things you care about.
Do archers in LOTRO have bows that bend, with strings that twang and arrows that knock on them properly? Does LOTRO have animations of you drawing out your quiver? Does LOTRO accurately represent every arrow in your quiver so you can count how many you have left? Does it have dwarves whose beards rustle as they move with little strands that blow in the wind? Does it have fog that parts and swirls as you run through it? (VG actually has that one) Does it show the eyelashes of the characters? Does it show them blink? Does it show their pupils dilate when they go into a darker area? Does it have pebbles along the roadways that kick up or shift as you run along them? Does it have grass that parts accurately when you walk through it? Do all the animals leave the appropriate tracks, with the appropriate gait for their particular size and weight?
All those questions are exactly as rediculous as nitpicking on whether or not some elves have strings on their bows.
If you want to talk about animations, talk about Elrond skating around without a walk animation. There's nothing wrong with the Elves animations in VG, it's just that you needed something to nitpick, so you chose to complain that their bows don't have strings. Atleast have the decency to talk about something that matters with the game.
Also I wouldn't talk about the Vanguard horses, especially after the screenshot you posted from LOTRO where the horses look like... well.. someone said it looks like a fetus, and I can't say that's too far off. Tell me, do the horses in LOTRO swish their tails, do they scratch at the ground with their hooves? Do they neigh and bow their heads and shake off the occasional horsefly? Do they whinny when you go close to a cliff edge or a monster? I've seen the horses do all of those things in VG.
You call Brad a one-hit wonder, but tell me, did Turbine ever even have a "hit"? Can AC1 even really be a "hit" when it was simply one of only a couple alternatives for people who didn't play EQ? Personally I'd say it's more like they got lucky by being in the right place at the right time. I played AC1, and it was nothing compared to EQ.
As far as "take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say whoever told you that wasn't involved with game development in any way shape or form. Or probably anyting important at all. If the engine in your car is old and about to die, putting new wiper blades on it won't fix the car. If you go to the hospital for a gunshot wound, the doctor doesn't treat you for a splinter. I really hope that's not the approach Turbine took to game development, you can't expect big parts of the game to just "take care of themselves". That's just not how game development works, sorry.
{ Mod Edit }
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Hey Jackdog, quick couple of questions since I know they'll be things you care about. Do archers in LOTRO have bows that bend, with strings that twang and arrows that knock on them properly? Does LOTRO have animations of you drawing out your quiver? Does LOTRO accurately represent every arrow in your quiver so you can count how many you have left? Does it have dwarves whose beards rustle as they move with little strands that blow in the wind? Does it have fog that parts and swirls as you run through it? (VG actually has that one) Does it show the eyelashes of the characters? Does it show them blink? Does it show their pupils dilate when they go into a darker area? Does it have pebbles along the roadways that kick up or shift as you run along them? Does it have grass that parts accurately when you walk through it? Do all the animals leave the appropriate tracks, with the appropriate gait for their particular size and weight? All those questions are exactly as rediculous as nitpicking on whether or not some elves have strings on their bows. If you want to talk about animations, talk about Elrond skating around without a walk animation. There's nothing wrong with the Elves animations in VG, it's just that you needed something to nitpick, so you chose to complain that their bows don't have strings. Atleast have the decency to talk about something that matters with the game. Also I wouldn't talk about the Vanguard horses, especially after the screenshot you posted from LOTRO where the horses look like... well.. someone said it looks like a fetus, and I can't say that's too far off. Tell me, do the horses in LOTRO swish their tails, do they scratch at the ground with their hooves? Do they neigh and bow their heads and shake off the occasional horsefly? Do they whinny when you go close to a cliff edge or a monster? I've seen the horses do all of those things in VG. You call Brad a one-hit wonder, but tell me, did Turbine ever even have a "hit"? Can AC1 even really be a "hit" when it was simply one of only a couple alternatives for people who didn't play EQ? Personally I'd say it's more like they got lucky by being in the right place at the right time. I played AC1, and it was nothing compared to EQ. As far as "take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say whoever told you that wasn't involved with game development in any way shape or form. Or probably anyting important at all. If the engine in your car is old and about to die, putting new wiper blades on it won't fix the car. If you go to the hospital for a gunshot wound, the doctor doesn't treat you for a splinter. I really hope that's not the approach Turbine took to game development, you can't expect big parts of the game to just "take care of themselves". That's just not how game development works, sorry. Honestly I'd thought you'd given up being a VG Troll, what with all the misrepresentation and nitpicking and the fact that you constantly lost any credibility you might have. It's cool that you like LOTRO, I'm sure many people do. If I was really in to LOTR maybe I would to (although someone told me alot of serious LOTR fans are upset because there's stuff in the game that's not in the books, but whatever). However, try not to misrepresent VG and make claims that you can't back up, and then claim it's all subjective when someone says something bad about LOTRO.
You know something Blurr the only graphic that really matters is the one over at EB Games that has had LoTRO in number one place for about a month now. That is the graphic that really breaks the Vanguard fan's heart isn't it Knowing that LoTRO is going to be the next big game and Vanguard is headed toward being another bargain bin Station pass game.
Oh and yes the NPC's including the horses in LoTRO have all the appropriate animations, including crafters working on their wares, horses neighing, stamping and tossing thier heads etc etc. LoTRO is not a wax museum like Vanguard.
Lol Jackdog, except that's all horse stuff is in VG. But as you see, your questions are rediculous. I could easily ask if LOTRO has griffions and drakes flying overhead, simply because I know Vanguard does, and I'm pretty sure LOTRO doesn't. I could ask if it has boat travel, but again I doubt it does. Nitpicking stuff like that is just the sign of a desperate person.
Oh, regarding the "Best seller" list at EB. You mean people are ordering the game which lets them in to beta for free when they do? *Gasp* What a shocker, it must all be because they are serious about playing the game totally, and not for
Purchase Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar and receive:
Access to the Open Beta!
Lol.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Lol Jackdog, except that's all horse stuff is in VG. But as you see, your questions are rediculous. I could easily ask if LOTRO has griffions and drakes flying overhead, simply because I know Vanguard does, and I'm pretty sure LOTRO doesn't. I could ask if it has boat travel, but again I doubt it does. Nitpicking stuff like that is just the sign of a desperate person.
He still did prove that LotRO has more attention to detail than VSoH.
Lets just get one thing straight Jackdog doesn't NEED to defend LotRO, it defends itself quite well with its polish, its already established community, and its number of countless pre-orders. So in no way is he desperate. He is just a forum goer and likes to express his opinion like the rest of us on this website.
Like I said graphics are subjective, but when it comes to graphical features, VSoH just misses a few sweet spots. Bring up boats and housing if you like, this thread is about graphics.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Oh, regarding the "Best seller" list at EB. You mean people are ordering the game which lets them in to beta for free when they do? *Gasp* What a shocker, it must all be because they are serious about playing the game totally, and not for
Purchase Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar and receive:
Access to the Open Beta!
Lol.
^ That right there is one crazy statement.
You're reaching extremely far into your imagination for that one.
People are buying the game to get 24 extra days of playtime but aren't serious about playing the game?
Why didn't they just spend 4 dollars on the magazine and play the closed beta?
It couldn't possibly be because they are either A) Already playing closed beta and are aware that this game is highly polished and an absolute blast to play? or They know someone who is in beta and are aware that this game is highly polished and is an absolute blast to play? or C) It's LotR?
Nope... it's because they just have to play the extra month to a max level of 15.
Alllllrighty then!
By the way... it's "open" beta, there's a pretty good chance they're getting in without ordering the game. Ordering the game just allows you to keep your character into release, but in order for THAT to be important, one would be serious about playing the game... so that can't be it
Originally posted by xAlrythx I will also add that VSoH looks no more realistic than WoW.
Thus ending any credibility he had as a poster whatsoever. ROFL
Explain to me how exactly VSoH looks more realistic than any other game? The models look like plastic. Both games look how they look, they look how they are intended to look. They both go nowhere near the edge of realism, unless of course realism is just another word for what that particular game intended to look like.
At least put more effort into your posts, you could have at least tryed to explain why you think VSoH looks "real". But unfortunately your just quick to defend your token game, and you didn't actually think. Of course I could be proven wrong with a decent reply. All I know is that you can't say one game looks more realistic than another, because if you define realism that way, they both don't even scratch the surface of real world graphics, one is cartoon, one is plastic to be simple.
I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
Actually, jackdog does seem desperate. See he's been trolling on VG since forever, and all he comes up with are misrepresentations and nitpicking.
If you want to talk about graphics, and animations as Jackdog brought up, how about things like the fact that if you go in a tomb in the wood elf starting area, your character shivers, rubs his arms and mutters. That's not attention to detail? He simply picked one thing that he could tout as the be-all end-all of "attention to detail". How about things like the fact that if you're flying up high on a griffon, your shadow is the appropriate size and angle from the sun? Things like after you step out of water, your footsteps are squishy for a couple steps. How about the fog that parts and swirls when you walk through it? How about the fact that not all horses look the same? Different cultures actually have different breeds of horses.
If you want to bring up attention to detail, how about all that stuff? Or is the only thing that matters bowstrings? Jackdog won't bring up that stuff or respond to it because he simply likes to nitpick and act like one tiny thing makes or breaks a game. Which is very hypocritical simply because LOTRO won't be held up to the same standard.
And yes, LOTRO does need to be defended. Keeping it strictly to graphics, I don't understand how people, specifically LOTR fans, aren't simply crying out for this game to be stopped after the incredibly poor job they've done with the graphics. I mean, how can turbine get away with taking this beloved IP and throwing DDO graphics at it. Look at the screenshot that Jackdog himself posted. Horses that look like some kind of mutant, a dwarf that looks like it could be from 10 years ago, a wizard with an albino 2d hand, not wrapped but pasted onto his staff. Trees that look like a snowman wiped his nose with them. Why doesn't LOTRO have distance blurring?
You can say graphics are subjective, but don't then turn around and act like when you bash VG it's the ultimate truth on graphics. You can't have both ways (that's hypocritical, something jackdog knows alot about).
If you're gonna hold up a certain standard to one game, you have to hold it up to the same standard on the game that you love.
Edit: Oh btw Mithrandolir, you do realize that people purchase the game online just so they can get the email with the beta key in it, and then cancel their order prior to shipping so they don't actually have to pay, right? Watch any game that offers "Free beta with purchase!" on sites like EBGames, they quickly get into the top list because people know they can get a beta key for free and not have to pay a cent. Too bad they don't show the top list of cancellations, I'm sure LOTRO would make that right before ship day, oddly enough.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well Blurr, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It's not like I am making a blind statement, I've played both. In MY OPINION LotRO beats out VG's graphics when both are on their highest settings. In YOU'R OPINION VG's beats out LotRO's... I see nothing wrong with either outlook since I will ultimately play what I like and you will play what you like...
But I do know this. Buying the game and cancelling in order to get into the OPEN beta is insane. It's OPEN for crying out loud. People will get in without buying the game... I mean yeah, there's limited accounts, but most folks will get in. All buying the game early does (as far as beta in concerned) is allow you to carry over your charcaters into retail, and for that to be important to someone, they probably intend to play the game after release, don't you think? So I don't think you are correct on your assumption here, but just like you... I am guessing. It;s all we can do until the game launches and we see what happens.
But I do know this. Buying the game and cancelling in order to get into the OPEN beta is insane. It's OPEN for crying out loud. People will get in without buying the game...
Repeating just to make it more simplified for blurr.
If anyone from any major development company made a bow, without a draw string, they be fired .You go up to Peter Moulinex and he is your lead designer with your string less bow and he would be insulted, then basically look at you and say "wtf are you doing here , GET OUT !" Then he hire someone who had a lick of sense.
Like someone said , the little details add up tremendously , and it takes aways from the immersion.
I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?
Comments
I like to play MMOs. I pay the subcriptions for 3 different MMOs for me and my children.
Why is all this hate about people with older systems?
I will upgrade my PC when I have the money and feel like it. I will buy whatever MMO that I feel I can play on my PC.
I was hoping to buy Vanguard, but as soon as I heard about performance I steered clear.
I have been able to play LOTRO with an old system and an old video card. I feel if I can turn down the graphics to low or very low and still play, I am happy. I don't care about the lighting on the waves or any of that. I care about gameplay.
Whenever I upgrade my PC, I will enjoy the better graphics of LOTRO (or other MMO).
I like pie !
For me (I know... you didn't ask
) the issue isn;t that VG's graphics aren't good... it's that they are so inefficient.
The amount of power it takes to render the end result is just not even close to being worth it to me.
Do the screenshots look nice? Sure they do. The art is awesome. I would never call the graphics "uninspiring" but I would say they certainly scale like crap. I mean, look at it this way... I get better performance in LotRO on the "Ultra High" settings (again.. this is with the high res textures installed) than I do in VG on the lowest settings. Now, have you seen VG on it's lowest settings? You should give it a look if you haven't. Then you will see the inefficiency.
I am running a mid level machine, brand new and self built (nothing gunking it up).
AMD 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+
2GB G-Skill ram DDRII 800
SATA 250GB HDD
BFG 7600GT OC'd edition
Not the best machine by a long shot, but I run Oblivion on it's highest settings without any issues at all. Now, I understand Oblivion isn't a mmorpg, but that's not the point. The point is simply that I get better performance in games like that on their highest setting than I do in VG on it's lowest... and again, please look at VG on it's lowest settings to see how it more closely resembles AC1 than anything other mmorpg to date (on those settings I mean).
Now, I did get a few days at release (in VG) on the highest settings. I stuttered a bit, but when not in Martok and not surrounded by tons of people, it was at least playable. I got to see the game looking it's best, and it wasn't "bad" it was just not breathtaking like some make it out to be (yeah, I know... opinions...). To me, LotRO IS breathtaking. It's fluent. It's alive. To each their own on this one though.
Now, when you take the amount of power it takes to render it, and combine the fact that lots of things were missing and broke at release (yeah they warned us, doesn't excuse the shape this thing shipped in imo) like Caravans, Fellowships, Helmets, Missives in Martok, Cloaks, etc... and other things like getting kicked off horses at chunk borders, being turned around at the same locations, mobs vanishing while fighting them, mobs not displaying the correct health bars in combat, players falling through the world to their deaths, all kinds of death related bugs (some of this stuff might be fixed now, but this is what i dealt with on day 1 through 30), rollbacks, crashes to desktop, being dropped from my group repeatedly, rubberbanding, etc... can you honestly question why some of us have a bug up our ass?
Nothing justifies that bull. Nothing.
Like I said, I will be more than happy if VG ends up rocking someday, for now though... they couldn;t pay me 15 bucks a month to play it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Vanguard sure is open...
An open lifeless, boring, colourless, boring, boring world. Did I mention it was boring?
I agree graphics are objective, it still doesn't change the fact the graphics in VSoH are extremely unvibrant. They don't jump out and grab my face and shake me like a rag-doll telling to me "look, look at how amazing I am!".
I will give you two examples of VSoH that made me come to my conclusion.
#1 The trees along coastal lines and water edges look like copy + paste jobs and feels very unimmersive.
#2 The NPCs in the game are literally lifeless, some areas are alot worse than others. Go do some exploring if you havn't already. You will find yourself coming across villages and towns with not a breath of life.
I will also add that VSoH looks no more realistic than WoW.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Thus ending any credibility he had as a poster whatsoever. ROFL
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
I like pie !
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
/agree
However I hope this is not the case with Turbine.
Thus ending any credibility he had as a poster whatsoever. ROFL
Explain to me how exactly VSoH looks more realistic than any other game? The models look like plastic. Both games look how they look, they look how they are intended to look. They both go nowhere near the edge of realism, unless of course realism is just another word for what that particular game intended to look like.
At least put more effort into your posts, you could have at least tryed to explain why you think VSoH looks "real". But unfortunately your just quick to defend your token game, and you didn't actually think. Of course I could be proven wrong with a decent reply. All I know is that you can't say one game looks more realistic than another, because if you define realism that way, they both don't even scratch the surface of real world graphics, one is cartoon, one is plastic to be simple.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
Lets get it straighter . Vanguard has a more powerful engine. That is all .LotrO has a inferior engine, great design and art concept that was well executed.
Bottomline , people who have only made one successful game in their career are usually one hit wonders like Vanilla Ice.
/agree
However I hope this is not the case with Turbine.
LOL think you missed that one, Brad Mcquaid has only released one successful game, He is the Vanilla Ice of MMo Development.The only reason EQ1 was successful was because their was no competition back then until Asherons Call and friends.
I like pie !
I have no idea, I haven't been to the high elf starting area since release. The fact that you are still hung up on them is enough to prove your insanity though. I kind of imagine you to have not left your apartment in months like Howard Hughes, peeing in old milk cartons and scouring google to troll any website that has the gall to have the name Vanguard anywhere in it. That's just what I get from the fact that you are still obsessing over the npc bows in the high elf starting area.
Anyway, graphically Vanguard is far superior to any other MMORPG save arguably EQ2. Performance is another story however.
We are discussing graphics last I looked Anarchyart, part of the graphics are the animations. The elven archer animation is just one example of where Sigil did things half way and amateurish. A lot of little things done halfway and amateurish adds up to the game being done half way and amateurish. Brad was a one hit wonder as has been pointed out already, he was just in the right place at the right time with EQ. Vanguard has shown that he really needs to find a new line of work.
Paying attention to detail and making sure all the little things are done right is where Turbine has shined. LoTRO does not claim to be a third generation omygawd game, however they took all the little things and did them right and made them fun. That is why the best graphic of all is the EB Games PC sales chart where LoTRO has been number one for weeks now. One of my mentors used to tell me, take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves.
I miss DAoC
Hey Jackdog, quick couple of questions since I know they'll be things you care about.
Do archers in LOTRO have bows that bend, with strings that twang and arrows that knock on them properly? Does LOTRO have animations of you drawing out your quiver? Does LOTRO accurately represent every arrow in your quiver so you can count how many you have left? Does it have dwarves whose beards rustle as they move with little strands that blow in the wind? Does it have fog that parts and swirls as you run through it? (VG actually has that one) Does it show the eyelashes of the characters? Does it show them blink? Does it show their pupils dilate when they go into a darker area? Does it have pebbles along the roadways that kick up or shift as you run along them? Does it have grass that parts accurately when you walk through it? Do all the animals leave the appropriate tracks, with the appropriate gait for their particular size and weight?
All those questions are exactly as rediculous as nitpicking on whether or not some elves have strings on their bows.
If you want to talk about animations, talk about Elrond skating around without a walk animation. There's nothing wrong with the Elves animations in VG, it's just that you needed something to nitpick, so you chose to complain that their bows don't have strings. Atleast have the decency to talk about something that matters with the game.
Also I wouldn't talk about the Vanguard horses, especially after the screenshot you posted from LOTRO where the horses look like... well.. someone said it looks like a fetus, and I can't say that's too far off. Tell me, do the horses in LOTRO swish their tails, do they scratch at the ground with their hooves? Do they neigh and bow their heads and shake off the occasional horsefly? Do they whinny when you go close to a cliff edge or a monster? I've seen the horses do all of those things in VG.
You call Brad a one-hit wonder, but tell me, did Turbine ever even have a "hit"? Can AC1 even really be a "hit" when it was simply one of only a couple alternatives for people who didn't play EQ? Personally I'd say it's more like they got lucky by being in the right place at the right time. I played AC1, and it was nothing compared to EQ.
As far as "take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say whoever told you that wasn't involved with game development in any way shape or form. Or probably anyting important at all. If the engine in your car is old and about to die, putting new wiper blades on it won't fix the car. If you go to the hospital for a gunshot wound, the doctor doesn't treat you for a splinter. I really hope that's not the approach Turbine took to game development, you can't expect big parts of the game to just "take care of themselves". That's just not how game development works, sorry.
{ Mod Edit }
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I like pie !
You know something Blurr the only graphic that really matters is the one over at EB Games that has had LoTRO in number one place for about a month now. That is the graphic that really breaks the Vanguard fan's heart isn't it Knowing that LoTRO is going to be the next big game and Vanguard is headed toward being another bargain bin Station pass game.
Oh and yes the NPC's including the horses in LoTRO have all the appropriate animations, including crafters working on their wares, horses neighing, stamping and tossing thier heads etc etc. LoTRO is not a wax museum like Vanguard.
I miss DAoC
Lol Jackdog, except that's all horse stuff is in VG. But as you see, your questions are rediculous. I could easily ask if LOTRO has griffions and drakes flying overhead, simply because I know Vanguard does, and I'm pretty sure LOTRO doesn't. I could ask if it has boat travel, but again I doubt it does. Nitpicking stuff like that is just the sign of a desperate person.
Oh, regarding the "Best seller" list at EB. You mean people are ordering the game which lets them in to beta for free when they do? *Gasp* What a shocker, it must all be because they are serious about playing the game totally, and not for
Lol.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
He still did prove that LotRO has more attention to detail than VSoH.
Lets just get one thing straight Jackdog doesn't NEED to defend LotRO, it defends itself quite well with its polish, its already established community, and its number of countless pre-orders. So in no way is he desperate. He is just a forum goer and likes to express his opinion like the rest of us on this website.
Like I said graphics are subjective, but when it comes to graphical features, VSoH just misses a few sweet spots. Bring up boats and housing if you like, this thread is about graphics.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
^ That right there is one crazy statement.
You're reaching extremely far into your imagination for that one.
People are buying the game to get 24 extra days of playtime but aren't serious about playing the game?
Why didn't they just spend 4 dollars on the magazine and play the closed beta?
It couldn't possibly be because they are either A) Already playing closed beta and are aware that this game is highly polished and an absolute blast to play? or
They know someone who is in beta and are aware that this game is highly polished and is an absolute blast to play? or C) It's LotR?
Nope... it's because they just have to play the extra month to a max level of 15.
Alllllrighty then!
By the way... it's "open" beta, there's a pretty good chance they're getting in without ordering the game. Ordering the game just allows you to keep your character into release, but in order for THAT to be important, one would be serious about playing the game... so that can't be it
Thus ending any credibility he had as a poster whatsoever. ROFL
Explain to me how exactly VSoH looks more realistic than any other game? The models look like plastic. Both games look how they look, they look how they are intended to look. They both go nowhere near the edge of realism, unless of course realism is just another word for what that particular game intended to look like.
At least put more effort into your posts, you could have at least tryed to explain why you think VSoH looks "real". But unfortunately your just quick to defend your token game, and you didn't actually think. Of course I could be proven wrong with a decent reply. All I know is that you can't say one game looks more realistic than another, because if you define realism that way, they both don't even scratch the surface of real world graphics, one is cartoon, one is plastic to be simple.
I'm not defending VG here, but LotR isn't any better. On my old computer LotR, I could run on on the highest setting except within a town. Now with my updated computer I can play the game on the highest settings with no problems. I even went back and play VG on highest setting and the lag was greatly reduce from when I played on the old computer. Huge reason why LotR plays so well is because LotR doesn't have a lot graphics going on the engine isn't as good as today's 3D model engine. VG is what EQ2 would have been like if were an open world like WoW. That's one of the reason why VG cause lag for a lot of players because there so much going on with high level graphics.
I'm not saying LotR sucks, but you can't compare LotR and VG through pictures as I said before because picture say nothing about the gameplay. LotR is missing FPs and animation and probably a whole more, which is why the game runs so great for some people, but it would also explain the lack of activity. VG is too high performance for the average computer and thus alienates people who refuse to update their computers. However, this doesn't mean VGs graphics suck or LotR is better because you would have to play LotR to realize where it falls short compare to VG.
Actually, jackdog does seem desperate. See he's been trolling on VG since forever, and all he comes up with are misrepresentations and nitpicking.
If you want to talk about graphics, and animations as Jackdog brought up, how about things like the fact that if you go in a tomb in the wood elf starting area, your character shivers, rubs his arms and mutters. That's not attention to detail? He simply picked one thing that he could tout as the be-all end-all of "attention to detail". How about things like the fact that if you're flying up high on a griffon, your shadow is the appropriate size and angle from the sun? Things like after you step out of water, your footsteps are squishy for a couple steps. How about the fog that parts and swirls when you walk through it? How about the fact that not all horses look the same? Different cultures actually have different breeds of horses.
If you want to bring up attention to detail, how about all that stuff? Or is the only thing that matters bowstrings? Jackdog won't bring up that stuff or respond to it because he simply likes to nitpick and act like one tiny thing makes or breaks a game. Which is very hypocritical simply because LOTRO won't be held up to the same standard.
And yes, LOTRO does need to be defended. Keeping it strictly to graphics, I don't understand how people, specifically LOTR fans, aren't simply crying out for this game to be stopped after the incredibly poor job they've done with the graphics. I mean, how can turbine get away with taking this beloved IP and throwing DDO graphics at it. Look at the screenshot that Jackdog himself posted. Horses that look like some kind of mutant, a dwarf that looks like it could be from 10 years ago, a wizard with an albino 2d hand, not wrapped but pasted onto his staff. Trees that look like a snowman wiped his nose with them. Why doesn't LOTRO have distance blurring?
You can say graphics are subjective, but don't then turn around and act like when you bash VG it's the ultimate truth on graphics. You can't have both ways (that's hypocritical, something jackdog knows alot about).
If you're gonna hold up a certain standard to one game, you have to hold it up to the same standard on the game that you love.
Edit: Oh btw Mithrandolir, you do realize that people purchase the game online just so they can get the email with the beta key in it, and then cancel their order prior to shipping so they don't actually have to pay, right? Watch any game that offers "Free beta with purchase!" on sites like EBGames, they quickly get into the top list because people know they can get a beta key for free and not have to pay a cent. Too bad they don't show the top list of cancellations, I'm sure LOTRO would make that right before ship day, oddly enough.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Well Blurr, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It's not like I am making a blind statement, I've played both. In MY OPINION LotRO beats out VG's graphics when both are on their highest settings. In YOU'R OPINION VG's beats out LotRO's... I see nothing wrong with either outlook since I will ultimately play what I like and you will play what you like...
But I do know this. Buying the game and cancelling in order to get into the OPEN beta is insane. It's OPEN for crying out loud. People will get in without buying the game... I mean yeah, there's limited accounts, but most folks will get in. All buying the game early does (as far as beta in concerned) is allow you to carry over your charcaters into retail, and for that to be important to someone, they probably intend to play the game after release, don't you think? So I don't think you are correct on your assumption here, but just like you... I am guessing. It;s all we can do until the game launches and we see what happens.
But I do know this. Buying the game and cancelling in order to get into the OPEN beta is insane. It's OPEN for crying out loud. People will get in without buying the game...
Repeating just to make it more simplified for blurr.
Like someone said , the little details add up tremendously , and it takes aways from the immersion.
I like pie !
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I don't know what this had to do with my post, I said twice in two different posts that graphics are subjective, attention to detail isn't. However I disagree that VSoH graphics are high performance, they are far from it, they are simply poorly designed. LotR is missing animation?..... since when?
I'm not saying the graphics are better or worse, I'm saying VG has more going on their servers than LotR servers and because of this, your graphic cards are being pushed to the maxed.
The reason LotR runs better is because they utilised their design and focused on art instead of worrying about polygons. I never actually said in that post, that LotR is better, I was saying how VSoH looks nothing like realistic. I have to admit though I do think LotR is much better in graphics and performance, much, much better.
Yeah, but at what price. I think it's noted that LotR is missing some things and while it may look good to some. At what price did the design have on the gameplay. In otherword, what did Turbine not include to let the game perform better?