Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
I just want AoC to have around a nice 500k subs. The game is trying a lot of new things which is why I want it to be a hit. Think about it, they are trying a system to prevent people from griefing(support pvp in general, but do away with griefing) and they are trying a new combat system so that if you hit them in different parts of the body, it effects how they fight back.
If this games turns out to be a flop then I think this will set MMOs back because that will be more evidence that MMOs should stick with the tried and true method where if something worked in a previous MMO then you take it, polish it a little more or change the skin of it and put it in your game. IF more and more newer games flop, in all likelyhood devs will see this as more reason to keep things how they are now.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.That is a good point. I remember being on vent when everyone was talking about it. Hearing 50+ people laughing into your headphones was not fun but it did let me know that it was a good episode.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
They know their only worry is warhammer, AOC imo looks like a flop but hey i could be wrong. But warhammer looks like a fierce mmorpg and it looks it can knock WoW off its throne. I know blizzard has a trump card under their sleeve and that card is northrend. The burning crusade is a very nice and well done xpac they could have did better but the xpac was awesome nonetheless. I have a feeling when blizzard releases a northrend xpac its going to be beyond godly. A new xpac according to blizzard will be released every year so a new xpac would be released the same time war comes out.
Cant wait
I agree WoW's next expansion will be by holiday season 07 and it will indeed rock faces. I too hope it will be Northrend. I also hope they don't raise the level cap, but instead finally create the Hero classes. 1 for each talent tree per class. Perhaps award Heroic talent points to put into Heroic talent trees from completing quests or something. Also each Heroic class should have it's own Legendary quality armor/weapons set as part of the quest/talent/"leveling" process of the Hero classes.
I also hope they add more persistent PVP content.
But you are right, Blizzard is not a dumb company at all, they have something brewing, something that's probably been brewing for a while even before TBC was released. I expect big announcements in June/July.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory
The only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory There is also no evidence that Blizzard didn't pay the South Park team to add WoW to an episode. Vivendi doesn't have to disclose that information. There "was" communication between the two though. South Park would not be able to use any of the Warcraft trademarks without getting the approval of Vivendi. I'd bet money changed hands in one direction. As to what direction, no one can say for sure. It's not something that needs to be disclosed to anyone in the public.
I have yet to see any real concrete proof that WAR won't hit 1 million. And to use Vanguard as an example is pointless. Vanguard is a niche game. The goal BMQ had in mind was to recreate Everquest in his original "The Vision". Check out gucomics.com/archives/view.php to see an example of what I mean when I say "The Vision". SOE took over development of Everquest from Verant. That's when a lot of people saw EQ start to go downhill. Vanguard was BMQ's attempt to recreate the old Everquest. What I think he missed was that people didn't want to spend that kind of time any longer playing an MMO. His target audience was a much smaller one than what WAR is aiming for. Will WAR hit 1 million? Possibly. But to say it will never even have a chance to get close to that is extremely short sighted.
When they have given us Northrend, it's not long when they will give us spaceship 'mounts' to fly into home of the Burning Legion and a mighty raid against a revived Sargeras...
Not sure if AoC and WAR has the same factors that attracted the many, but reducing numbers from WoW is bound to happen if they don't start adding gameplay-altering experiences.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory
The only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
I have posted plenty of evidence that hints that the mmorpg genre is not as big as you like it to be, and that the chance of WAR reaching 1 million is VERY VERY slim. but you ignored that and came up with "WHAT IF!?!?!". Here, let me make give you another one, For all you know, there are 15 million adults waiting for a brand new spongebob mmorpg!. This is the exact same thing, its rediculous. Nothing even hints towards it.
I have yet to see good evidence that hints that WAR could do what 99% of other mmorpg's could not (reaching 1 million subscribers in the west). I have yet to see any good evidence that a company (Mythic) that has created an mmorpg that peaked at 250k subscribers, combined with another company (EA) that closed down 2 mmorpg's because of a lack of subscribers, 1 MMO (if you can consider in an MMORPG) running extremely poorly, and an old game currently doing "decent". can all of a sudden do what they couldn't do in the past, but this time, are also directly competing with Age of Conan, Aion,Lotro and all other games released in 2007, while at the same time, if Blizzard is indeed planning to release 1 expansion each year, also competing against WoW's new expansion.
Not going to continue this debate, as its like talking to a brick wall, and will be proven wrong in time, but I would like to point out the overwhelming evidence Cage posted that shows the huge amount of money Blizzard paid to Southpark for that episode..or even all the evidence that Blizzard paid anything at all....
To think that no money changed hands is pretty ignorant of how things work in the marketing/advertising world. Yes Parker and Stone may have wanted to do a WoW thing and probably came up with the whole idea themselves, but if you honestly think all of those faily blatant Blizzard signs when they are in the office weren't paid for.... Why would Blizzard have signs hanging up in their offices? Why would South Park need to show those signs in the scenes when the developers are talking? It was ad placement plain and simple.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory
The only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
I have posted plenty of evidence that hints that the mmorpg genre is not as big as you like it to be, and that the chance of WAR reaching 1 million is VERY VERY slim. but you ignored that and came up with "WHAT IF!?!?!". Here, let me make give you another one, For all you know, there are 15 million adults waiting for a brand new spongebob mmorpg!. This is the exact same thing, its rediculous. Nothing even hints towards it.
I have yet to see good evidence that hints that WAR could do what 99% of other mmorpg's could not (reaching 1 million subscribers in the west). I have yet to see any good evidence that a company (Mythic) that has created an mmorpg that peaked at 250k subscribers, combined with another company (EA) that closed down 2 mmorpg's because of a lack of subscribers, 1 MMO (if you can consider in an MMORPG) running extremely poorly, and an old game currently doing "decent". can all of a sudden do what they couldn't do in the past, but this time, are also directly competing with Age of Conan, Aion,Lotro and all other games released in 2007, while at the same time, if Blizzard is indeed planning to release 1 expansion each year, also competing against WoW's new expansion.
be seriouss And once again you are stuck in the past. The past has nothing to do with current games out.
and blizzards next expansion would come in 2008 at the earliest.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The past has always been a very valuable source that hints what the future will bring. its not a guarentee, but its right a lot.
You (and not just you, you and many WAR fans) are simply stuck in a wishfull thought.
And yes, Blizzard expansion will most like come in 2008, WAR will most likely gets most of its subscribers in 2008, because its late release in 2007. so its directly competing against WoW's expansion.
The past has always been a very valuable source that hints what the future will bring. its not a guarentee, but its right a lot.
You (and not just you, you and many WAR fans) are simply stuck in a wishfull thought.
And yes, Blizzard expansion will most like come in 2008, WAR will most likely gets most of its subscribers in 2008, because its late release in 2007. so its directly competing against WoW's expansion.
I am not a WAR fan. Like I said that is just the particular game that I used in the debate. I could of easily used LOTRO instead.
If you look at my signature you should be able to tell I am not a fanboy of any game. I have played pretty much all of them.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Blizzard will stick to the same formula on WoW, any big change from them will come in their next mmo
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
That isn't changin the subject. They are all ads. Do you really think that Southpark said hey we want to do an episode on WoW and we want to do it all in your game and show lots of Blizzard emblems all over the show and two of your founders and they did it all for free? Yeah it prolly cost them less because they were known already and may parker and stone are fans of the game (I have no idea) but to think that this wasn't another example of advertising, not sure what to say if that is what you truely believe. SOE could of done the same thing with their MMOs if they actually spent that kind of money on advertising. Yeah maybe it cost Blizzard only hundreds of thousands of dollars for the South Park episode since they were a known product. And Maybe it would of cost say SOE and EQ2 5 million dollars to get the same thing. ( made up numbers used to convey a point) The thing is that everything can be bought. So it is just a matter of negotiating over the price it would take to get TV placement of your product during the shows.
Your theory is wrong.
What really happened was EA paid Southpark to make an episode about WoW. The entire plan was to get WoW extremely popular, that way 2 yrs later the gamers will be bored and flock to WAR once its finally released?
My last arguement is more plausible then your initial arguement. Both of which are insane.
Your entire arguement just went down the tubes with these foolish comments. What, do you think President Bush pays Southpark to make episodes bashing him? Do you think when Jay Leno and all the rest of the comedians put on skits bashing products they are getting paid by the product companies to bash them on air? Absolutely ridiculous arguement you are making, it makes no sense you have no proof at all. Your theory has nothing to go on.
Ohhh and to say that there is no proof that Blizzard didnt pay them is as dumb an arguement. There is also no proof aliens didnt pay Southpark to make an episode about Blizzard.
That isn't changin the subject. They are all ads. Do you really think that Southpark said hey we want to do an episode on WoW and we want to do it all in your game and show lots of Blizzard emblems all over the show and two of your founders and they did it all for free? Yeah it prolly cost them less because they were known already and may parker and stone are fans of the game (I have no idea) but to think that this wasn't another example of advertising, not sure what to say if that is what you truely believe. SOE could of done the same thing with their MMOs if they actually spent that kind of money on advertising. Yeah maybe it cost Blizzard only hundreds of thousands of dollars for the South Park episode since they were a known product. And Maybe it would of cost say SOE and EQ2 5 million dollars to get the same thing. ( made up numbers used to convey a point) The thing is that everything can be bought. So it is just a matter of negotiating over the price it would take to get TV placement of your product during the shows.
Your theory is wrong.
What really happened was EA paid Southpark to make an episode about WoW. The entire plan was to get WoW extremely popular, that way 2 yrs later the gamers will be bored and flock to WAR once its finally released?
My last arguement is more plausible then your initial arguement. Both of which are insane.
Your entire arguement just went down the tubes with these foolish comments. What, do you think President Bush pays Southpark to make episodes bashing him? Do you think when Jay Leno and all the rest of the comedians put on skits bashing products they are getting paid by the product companies to bash them on air? Absolutely ridiculous arguement you are making, it makes no sense you have no proof at all. Your theory has nothing to go on.
Ohhh and to say that there is no proof that Blizzard didnt pay them is as dumb an arguement. There is also no proof aliens didnt pay Southpark to make an episode about Blizzard.
If you don't understand the difference between why a Celebrity (such as George Bush) person's image can be used without permission and why a trademark (such as Blizzard's name) can not be used without permission you should look into the trademark laws. Also the movie People vs Larry Flynt does a decent job of explaining why you can use a Celebrity's image etc without having to have permission.
Also,
Mike Morhaime, president and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment, issued a statement over the collaboration: We were excited to hear that the creators of 'South Park' were interested in featuring World of Warcraft in the opening of their new season, and we really enjoyed collaborating with them to make this happen. We're looking forward to sharing the experience with our employees and our players as well when the season debuts this week
That shows that not only did they work with Blizzard over it, but they went to Blizzard asking permission to use their trademarked IP in their show.
If you still think that no money changed hands, then you should really look into how shareholders make their money. It has nothing to do with working well with others because you have mutual respect for their product.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
1. Blizzard is the smartest of them all because it was most succesfull in doing what every company is striving for, making money.
2. Gameloading 1 - Comunity 0
I'm sorry guys, but when debates are in question, Gameloading made far superior arguments to all of you, except that one person who tryed to highlight the point about WoW box sales numbers, and not just subscribtion numbers. That didn't get noticed much because it was neither pro or con WoW but I thought it was a very valid point. The biggest irony is, imagine if WAR realy does superbly good, the amount of bashing it would get for beeing just a dumb PVP game with no real story, no crafting, no PVE, no real persistant world, cuz you CAN take enemy capital, but no matter what it will get reseted after a while and then you have to go at it again (after a while it will become known as the ultimate PVP grind) would be just overwhelming.
So I thing it's actualy better that it doesen't do very well in numbers, because that way, it can stay the underdog, the game that people love and love to love because it isn't the mean big 800lb gorrila everyone loves to hate.
3. Because of the box sales # and amount of people that actualy tryed this style of gaming, but didn't quite like WoW I think WAR and AoC will do better than Gameloading is suggesting but I am also very sceptical about any of them reaching the magical million.
4. In no other thread, except the other threads about WoW and how it (obvuously if you have a single braincell[/sarcasm]) sucks is it apparent how true that quote from Anais Nin is "We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are" (I saw one person has it as a signature, I think it's a girl [omg omg]
5. Next Blizzard MMO will be sci-fi, I just can't see the reason behind a buisness decision of not taping into that genre when they are so established in fantasy allready
6. Next xpac? Hmmm, who knows, but it would be funn if it would seriously rock and do what most people hope for and more. If nothing, just to see the reactions on the forums...
edit >> WAR will have instanced PVP, instanced PVP will have the biggest effect on the outcome of the war, if there is not enough people to fill an instance, NPCs will take free spots <(personal opinion)
For anyone that thinks that the Warhammer IP will have a minimum effect on subs I explain a few facts
Warhammer is a 30-40 year old IP with a large base of gamers and numerous spinoff tabletop games. its lore is covered in over 200 books and novels. They people who play these games are used to spending hundreds of dollars on tabletop armies and in some cases hundreds and thousands of dollars on single minatures(if you doubt me go to www.forgeworld.co.uk). WAR has been advertised frequently in Games Workshop's(GW) publication White Dwarf and has been previewed in the Numerous Games Day's and Grand Tournaments around the world(note that again these events can cost upwards of hundreds of dollars to attend and are still well attended).
From the general feel of the crowds at these events(which i have been apart of the operation of over the past few years), many people want the game, the ability to play in the enviroments that they have played in through other game systems. Money will not be a large barrier to these people. A large majority of GW game players play PC games, part of the whole reason that there have been numerous 40k and fantasy games. Most of which where good games including the vastly popular Dawn of War series. while Dawn of War was more popular than the newer Mark of Chaos game realize that for the most part 40k tends to appeal to the RTS genre more while Fantasy appeals to the roleplaying aspect more(as seen by the 40k roleplay system Inquisitor was never as popular as Warhammer fantasy Roleplay.
Going to end this becuase I have to go practice with my army for the Las Vegas Grand Tournament that i am flying out to in June(wonder if i can get GW to pay for me to work the tourny instead....)
I'm sure Blizzard doesn't worry about Warhammer. why would they? Blizzard is going 8,5 million subscribers strong, and its STILL growing. Why would they fear a company that peaked at 250k subscribers with its game?
But I too am confident that the next WoW expansion will be well worth it. I'm satisfied with Burning Crusade so far.WAR is a great challenger no discussion there. The winner isn't the one with the most amount of subscribers, WoW is the biggest bomb on that front ever. But WAR I know will be the next big thing that people will talk about.
I don't expect all too many to switch from WoW to WAR because WoW is a game on it's own and there are sooo many fanboys playing it who have put too much time in it they wouldn't ever dream of leaving it. No matter what game that comes.
No matter what happends WAR will not have a positive impact for Blizzard. Since they indeed are going to loose subscribers.Ofcourse the winner is the one with the most subscribers. when talking about the "Big thing" in a franchise, it means the game that is the most popular, the most played, and the one that received the most media attention, and WAR will be neither of those. WAR is not a challenger. Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular among video gamers. WAR doesn't have the franchise of Warhammer, and Mythic doesn't have the company recognition of Blizzard. Millions of gamers were actually VERY excited about the announcement of the new alliance race in the Burning Crusade. Loads of gamers were waiting for blizzard to open its mouth and say which race will join the alliance. Only very few people cared when Mythic announced the races.
WAR will do fine, no doubt about that. I'm sure they will reach a nice 150k~250k subscribers, if not a few more. But it will always live in the shadow of World of Warcraft, just like every other MMORPG out there.
Interesting that a self proclaimed "vet" is comparing a TBR game, versus one that's over 2 years old now.
First off... War IS in fact a competitor. Comparing: Players currently playing a game waiting on an expansion vs. Nobody playing a game, and waiting on Initial release.
Second off... What do you do for a living that offers fortification to your "Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular". ??
Third... World of Warcraft wasn't, in any comparison, as popular as it is now. Warcraft is easy... ergo it's success.
Last off... 150-250k subscribers.... I'll bet you it gets FAR FAR more than that. I've played WoW for 2 years now.
The majority of the xpac content is, for the most part, nothing new. Black Temple we can't even do that last 3 bosses because they're bugged beyond belief. You have no idea how many people playing wow are just waiting for something new to come out.
WOW = Waiting on Warhammer
My two cents = Grain of Salt, Pound of Sand, your choice.
Comments
I just want AoC to have around a nice 500k subs. The game is trying a lot of new things which is why I want it to be a hit. Think about it, they are trying a system to prevent people from griefing(support pvp in general, but do away with griefing) and they are trying a new combat system so that if you hit them in different parts of the body, it effects how they fight back.
If this games turns out to be a flop then I think this will set MMOs back because that will be more evidence that MMOs should stick with the tried and true method where if something worked in a previous MMO then you take it, polish it a little more or change the skin of it and put it in your game. IF more and more newer games flop, in all likelyhood devs will see this as more reason to keep things how they are now.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.That is a good point. I remember being on vent when everyone was talking about it. Hearing 50+ people laughing into your headphones was not fun but it did let me know that it was a good episode.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I agree WoW's next expansion will be by holiday season 07 and it will indeed rock faces. I too hope it will be Northrend. I also hope they don't raise the level cap, but instead finally create the Hero classes. 1 for each talent tree per class. Perhaps award Heroic talent points to put into Heroic talent trees from completing quests or something. Also each Heroic class should have it's own Legendary quality armor/weapons set as part of the quest/talent/"leveling" process of the Hero classes.
I also hope they add more persistent PVP content.
But you are right, Blizzard is not a dumb company at all, they have something brewing, something that's probably been brewing for a while even before TBC was released. I expect big announcements in June/July.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theoryCabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theoryThe only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theory There is also no evidence that Blizzard didn't pay the South Park team to add WoW to an episode. Vivendi doesn't have to disclose that information. There "was" communication between the two though. South Park would not be able to use any of the Warcraft trademarks without getting the approval of Vivendi. I'd bet money changed hands in one direction. As to what direction, no one can say for sure. It's not something that needs to be disclosed to anyone in the public.I have yet to see any real concrete proof that WAR won't hit 1 million. And to use Vanguard as an example is pointless. Vanguard is a niche game. The goal BMQ had in mind was to recreate Everquest in his original "The Vision". Check out gucomics.com/archives/view.php to see an example of what I mean when I say "The Vision". SOE took over development of Everquest from Verant. That's when a lot of people saw EQ start to go downhill. Vanguard was BMQ's attempt to recreate the old Everquest. What I think he missed was that people didn't want to spend that kind of time any longer playing an MMO. His target audience was a much smaller one than what WAR is aiming for. Will WAR hit 1 million? Possibly. But to say it will never even have a chance to get close to that is extremely short sighted.
Not sure if AoC and WAR has the same factors that attracted the many, but reducing numbers from WoW is bound to happen if they don't start adding gameplay-altering experiences.
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theoryThe only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
I have posted plenty of evidence that hints that the mmorpg genre is not as big as you like it to be, and that the chance of WAR reaching 1 million is VERY VERY slim. but you ignored that and came up with "WHAT IF!?!?!". Here, let me make give you another one, For all you know, there are 15 million adults waiting for a brand new spongebob mmorpg!. This is the exact same thing, its rediculous. Nothing even hints towards it.I have yet to see good evidence that hints that WAR could do what 99% of other mmorpg's could not (reaching 1 million subscribers in the west). I have yet to see any good evidence that a company (Mythic) that has created an mmorpg that peaked at 250k subscribers, combined with another company (EA) that closed down 2 mmorpg's because of a lack of subscribers, 1 MMO (if you can consider in an MMORPG) running extremely poorly, and an old game currently doing "decent". can all of a sudden do what they couldn't do in the past, but this time, are also directly competing with Age of Conan, Aion,Lotro and all other games released in 2007, while at the same time, if Blizzard is indeed planning to release 1 expansion each year, also competing against WoW's new expansion.
be seriouss
Cabe, there isn't even any evidence for that. it could even be that South park paid Blizzard to use their franchise in an episode, since after all, hundreds of thousands of WoW players tuning into 1 south park episode is one hell of amount of money.
Wow you are finally thinking about different possibilities that is what this whole debate has been about. No one is saying what is going to happen or has happened for sure. We have no concert proof of anything in the MMO world. Like I said before even subscription numbers aren't for sure (since they are not independantly verified). But finally you are actually willing to think of possilities.
Yes it is possible that South Park paid Blizzard for the use of their product. If they felt they had more to gain by having WoW on their show then WoW had to gain for being on the show.
Now I just wish you would use this new found looking at the possibilities and apply it to the MMO genre.
You missed my point when talking about the South park - Blizzard issue, there is nothing that hints either way. I have argued my points with evidence that hints agains the 1 million subscriber WAR theoryThe only evidence would be if the game had come out and failed already. Otherwise everything else is circumstantial.
For all we know there are 10million people sitting at home right now wishing they had a Warhammer Fantasy MMO to play. Or for all we know the game will release and everyone will say ehh looks like WoW and the game will fail miserably.
You haven't supported your points with any evidence. There is no evidence that has anyhting to actually do with WAR or any other game coming out. You can't really point to something and say yes it is popular or it did well because of "?". For each individual person there are different reasons they enjoy the same activities. So, how can you honestly say that you have supported your opinion.
Let me restate that all you have given is your OPINION. Just like I have given my opinion.
Your OPINION you are trying to pass off as fact.
My Opinion I am saying that we don't know and anything is possible.
So who is acting like a brickwall? You keep saying we will see and I agree, but I think we will have ot wait to the end of 2008 to actually get an idea of how the market will be. WAR might make it out for Holiday 07 but I'm not holding my breath.
I have posted plenty of evidence that hints that the mmorpg genre is not as big as you like it to be, and that the chance of WAR reaching 1 million is VERY VERY slim. but you ignored that and came up with "WHAT IF!?!?!". Here, let me make give you another one, For all you know, there are 15 million adults waiting for a brand new spongebob mmorpg!. This is the exact same thing, its rediculous. Nothing even hints towards it.I have yet to see good evidence that hints that WAR could do what 99% of other mmorpg's could not (reaching 1 million subscribers in the west). I have yet to see any good evidence that a company (Mythic) that has created an mmorpg that peaked at 250k subscribers, combined with another company (EA) that closed down 2 mmorpg's because of a lack of subscribers, 1 MMO (if you can consider in an MMORPG) running extremely poorly, and an old game currently doing "decent". can all of a sudden do what they couldn't do in the past, but this time, are also directly competing with Age of Conan, Aion,Lotro and all other games released in 2007, while at the same time, if Blizzard is indeed planning to release 1 expansion each year, also competing against WoW's new expansion.
be seriouss And once again you are stuck in the past. The past has nothing to do with current games out.
and blizzards next expansion would come in 2008 at the earliest.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You (and not just you, you and many WAR fans) are simply stuck in a wishfull thought.
And yes, Blizzard expansion will most like come in 2008, WAR will most likely gets most of its subscribers in 2008, because its late release in 2007. so its directly competing against WoW's expansion.
If you look at my signature you should be able to tell I am not a fanboy of any game. I have played pretty much all of them.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Your theory is wrong.
What really happened was EA paid Southpark to make an episode about WoW. The entire plan was to get WoW extremely popular, that way 2 yrs later the gamers will be bored and flock to WAR once its finally released?
My last arguement is more plausible then your initial arguement. Both of which are insane.
Your entire arguement just went down the tubes with these foolish comments. What, do you think President Bush pays Southpark to make episodes bashing him? Do you think when Jay Leno and all the rest of the comedians put on skits bashing products they are getting paid by the product companies to bash them on air? Absolutely ridiculous arguement you are making, it makes no sense you have no proof at all. Your theory has nothing to go on.
Ohhh and to say that there is no proof that Blizzard didnt pay them is as dumb an arguement. There is also no proof aliens didnt pay Southpark to make an episode about Blizzard.
Your theory is wrong.
What really happened was EA paid Southpark to make an episode about WoW. The entire plan was to get WoW extremely popular, that way 2 yrs later the gamers will be bored and flock to WAR once its finally released?
My last arguement is more plausible then your initial arguement. Both of which are insane.
Your entire arguement just went down the tubes with these foolish comments. What, do you think President Bush pays Southpark to make episodes bashing him? Do you think when Jay Leno and all the rest of the comedians put on skits bashing products they are getting paid by the product companies to bash them on air? Absolutely ridiculous arguement you are making, it makes no sense you have no proof at all. Your theory has nothing to go on.
Ohhh and to say that there is no proof that Blizzard didnt pay them is as dumb an arguement. There is also no proof aliens didnt pay Southpark to make an episode about Blizzard.
If you don't understand the difference between why a Celebrity (such as George Bush) person's image can be used without permission and why a trademark (such as Blizzard's name) can not be used without permission you should look into the trademark laws. Also the movie People vs Larry Flynt does a decent job of explaining why you can use a Celebrity's image etc without having to have permission.
Also,
Mike Morhaime, president and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment, issued a statement over the collaboration: We were excited to hear that the creators of 'South Park' were interested in featuring World of Warcraft in the opening of their new season, and we really enjoyed collaborating with them to make this happen. We're looking forward to sharing the experience with our employees and our players as well when the season debuts this week
That shows that not only did they work with Blizzard over it, but they went to Blizzard asking permission to use their trademarked IP in their show.
If you still think that no money changed hands, then you should really look into how shareholders make their money. It has nothing to do with working well with others because you have mutual respect for their product.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
1. Blizzard is the smartest of them all because it was most succesfull in doing what every company is striving for, making money.
2.
Gameloading 1 - 
Comunity 0
I'm sorry guys, but when debates are in question, Gameloading made far superior arguments to all of you, except that one person who tryed to highlight the point about WoW box sales numbers, and not just subscribtion numbers. That didn't get noticed much because it was neither pro or con WoW but I thought it was a very valid point. The biggest irony is, imagine if WAR realy does superbly good, the amount of bashing it would get for beeing just a dumb PVP game with no real story, no crafting, no PVE, no real persistant world, cuz you CAN take enemy capital, but no matter what it will get reseted after a while and then you have to go at it again (after a while it will become known as the ultimate PVP grind) would be just overwhelming.
So I thing it's actualy better that it doesen't do very well in numbers, because that way, it can stay the underdog, the game that people love and love to love because it isn't the mean big 800lb gorrila everyone loves to hate.
3. Because of the box sales # and amount of people that actualy tryed this style of gaming, but didn't quite like WoW I think WAR and AoC will do better than Gameloading is suggesting but I am also very sceptical about any of them reaching the magical million.
4. In no other thread, except the other threads about WoW and how it (obvuously if you have a single braincell[/sarcasm]) sucks is it apparent how true that quote from Anais Nin is "We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are" (I saw one person has it as a signature, I think it's a girl [omg omg]
5. Next Blizzard MMO will be sci-fi, I just can't see the reason behind a buisness decision of not taping into that genre when they are so established in fantasy allready
6. Next xpac? Hmmm, who knows, but it would be funn if it would seriously rock and do what most people hope for and more. If nothing, just to see the reactions on the forums...
edit >> WAR will have instanced PVP, instanced PVP will have the biggest effect on the outcome of the war, if there is not enough people to fill an instance, NPCs will take free spots
<(personal opinion)
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Warhammer is a 30-40 year old IP with a large base of gamers and numerous spinoff tabletop games. its lore is covered in over 200 books and novels. They people who play these games are used to spending hundreds of dollars on tabletop armies and in some cases hundreds and thousands of dollars on single minatures(if you doubt me go to www.forgeworld.co.uk). WAR has been advertised frequently in Games Workshop's(GW) publication White Dwarf and has been previewed in the Numerous Games Day's and Grand Tournaments around the world(note that again these events can cost upwards of hundreds of dollars to attend and are still well attended).
From the general feel of the crowds at these events(which i have been apart of the operation of over the past few years), many people want the game, the ability to play in the enviroments that they have played in through other game systems. Money will not be a large barrier to these people. A large majority of GW game players play PC games, part of the whole reason that there have been numerous 40k and fantasy games. Most of which where good games including the vastly popular Dawn of War series. while Dawn of War was more popular than the newer Mark of Chaos game realize that for the most part 40k tends to appeal to the RTS genre more while Fantasy appeals to the roleplaying aspect more(as seen by the 40k roleplay system Inquisitor was never as popular as Warhammer fantasy Roleplay.
Going to end this becuase I have to go practice with my army for the Las Vegas Grand Tournament that i am flying out to in June(wonder if i can get GW to pay for me to work the tourny instead....)
1: My house
2: My future wife
3: My future kids
4: My entire bank account
5: The rest that is left
That your wrong.
I'm sure Blizzard doesn't worry about Warhammer. why would they? Blizzard is going 8,5 million subscribers strong, and its STILL growing. Why would they fear a company that peaked at 250k subscribers with its game?
But I too am confident that the next WoW expansion will be well worth it. I'm satisfied with Burning Crusade so far.WAR is a great challenger no discussion there. The winner isn't the one with the most amount of subscribers, WoW is the biggest bomb on that front ever. But WAR I know will be the next big thing that people will talk about.
I don't expect all too many to switch from WoW to WAR because WoW is a game on it's own and there are sooo many fanboys playing it who have put too much time in it they wouldn't ever dream of leaving it. No matter what game that comes.
No matter what happends WAR will not have a positive impact for Blizzard. Since they indeed are going to loose subscribers.Ofcourse the winner is the one with the most subscribers. when talking about the "Big thing" in a franchise, it means the game that is the most popular, the most played, and the one that received the most media attention, and WAR will be neither of those. WAR is not a challenger. Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular among video gamers. WAR doesn't have the franchise of Warhammer, and Mythic doesn't have the company recognition of Blizzard. Millions of gamers were actually VERY excited about the announcement of the new alliance race in the Burning Crusade. Loads of gamers were waiting for blizzard to open its mouth and say which race will join the alliance. Only very few people cared when Mythic announced the races.
WAR will do fine, no doubt about that. I'm sure they will reach a nice 150k~250k subscribers, if not a few more. But it will always live in the shadow of World of Warcraft, just like every other MMORPG out there.
Interesting that a self proclaimed "vet" is comparing a TBR game, versus one that's over 2 years old now.
First off... War IS in fact a competitor. Comparing: Players currently playing a game waiting on an expansion vs. Nobody playing a game, and waiting on Initial release.
Second off... What do you do for a living that offers fortification to your "Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular". ??
Third... World of Warcraft wasn't, in any comparison, as popular as it is now. Warcraft is easy... ergo it's success.
Last off... 150-250k subscribers.... I'll bet you it gets FAR FAR more than that. I've played WoW for 2 years now.
The majority of the xpac content is, for the most part, nothing new. Black Temple we can't even do that last 3 bosses because they're bugged beyond belief. You have no idea how many people playing wow are just waiting for something new to come out.
WOW = Waiting on Warhammer
My two cents = Grain of Salt, Pound of Sand, your choice.