But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
My guild is done after this pay period as well. It is only about 60 active users but I know many of them are going to play Lord of the Rings Online (yuck) . I will hold out for a bit longer after that, and play Spellborn, Conan, or Warhammer.
My entire guild has been done for about a month and a half now so we are off it's payroll. I think we are holding out for WAR and AOC, but whatever we decide, we are doing it as a guild.
But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
*sigh* By losing subscribers I'm talking about a serious amount of subscribers. not 100 or 200. I am talking about those 700k players that are supposed to leave WoW after WAR, AoC and Lotro. When I talk about losing subscribers, I mean to see that 8,5 million number go down. really, what use is it to post things like "well, I quit, and my entire guild quit, and I know 5 other guilds that quit!" all those players combined are about 0,01% of the total playerbase.
Originally posted by whitedelight
Those users are either just playing because they are close to their guild and/or they are wanting to playing something until other games come out. I do not see how you can honestly think that WoW will not lose some users to ANY MMORPGS coming out this year. It does not have to be LOTRO or WAR, but any mmo.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad.
My entire guild has been done for about a month and a half now so we are off it's payroll. I think we are holding out for WAR and AOC, but whatever we decide, we are doing it as a guild.
Im waiting on AoC, and many people i play with in EvE/L2 are to. Im sure Blizzard will try to do something for the release of WAR and AoC, but it better be something better that TBC, cuz from my vague understanding of WoW (i dont play it, but my friends do) it was pretty much more of the same.
Uhh the fact that LOTRO online has presold a ton of boxes. That gives a reason to think it will do well.
And vanguard has never had more hype in the overall MMO genre then WAR. WAR is one of the most hyped games to come out.
Just because you seem to think WoW is a great game and are blinded by that does not mean everyone playing it currently thinks the same.
As you can see from my signature I am obviously not a fanboy of any game. I have played almost everything ever put on the market. If I am a fanboy of anything it is the Genre of MMOs. I can also tell from your arguments that you are not a Business major in college. It is easy to see that you seem to think that success is actually based on the quality of the product. That couldn't be further from the truth. Especially in America. We are a nation of sheep. Our opinions are easily bought and our dollar is easily swayed by advertisements. Heck most Americans who vote are swayed more by the television ads then by what they actually know about the candidates.
World of Warcraft's success has nothing to do with being a great product. It never has to be a good product. I guess some people just don't realize how much advertising can affect a product's success. If a company was to make a MMO that was half way decent. Lets say graphics similar to WoW (so that it can run on any gaming PC) and with a decent amount of content. And then took that product and put the rest of their money into advertisement. Lets say Bill Gates was pissed off and wanted to crush the competition in the MMO market (pretty silly but lets just say so) so he pays people to go door to door and try to sell the game to every family in the world. ( A crazy amount of advertising dollars spent, but will make my point) Even if he gets 1% of the people he tries to sell the game to he would end up with way more people playing his game then WoW has.
Do you really think that it cost Blizzard all the money they spent just on developing the game? No a lot of that cost was in advertising. Smaller companies just can't compete with that type of cash. Yes they can put out a product that is just as polished and has just as much content. But it takes a huge company with money to burn to advertise their game.
And in that aspect EA has deep pockets.
And it really doesn't matter in this conversation if people buy a game because its EA or not. All that matters is that a lot of people buy EA games and if those games have advertisements for WAR then there is a real good chance more people will buy WAR. Think of it this way. If Microsoft had somehow bought Turbine way back when they worked with them. And now they were releasing LOTRO as Microsoft/Turbine instead of just Turbine. Microsoft could have every single copy of Windows play a small LOTRO movie to advertise the game. Do you really think that type of advertisement (on over 90% of hte world's PCs) wouldn't get more people to purchase the game then what WoW currently has?
What people need to realize is that the actual content of the game isn't important, just as the taste of a McDonald's Burger isn't important. What is important is how often people see your product. The more often they see it and the more likely they will choose to use it. Even when they don't need it. And even when it is bad for you. Cigarettes are a great example of this. If advertising wasn't the most important factor of selling something then why did they pull all the Cigarette ads? They even talk about not having movie stars smoking as often etc.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Can we all agree that Vanguard is not as bad and WoW is not as good as people say it is?
I completely agree there. The people that have said anything bad about WoW have been actual players and gave the game a shot. It just wasn't for the ones that did give the chance. The whole "We didslike Wow" thing isn't a trend. The "I'm going to play WoW because everyone else does and so do thier farm animals!" is a trend. I know for a fact that I played the game because I played the beta, and decided to buy a reatil copy. I had no friends in the game and I knew noone that played either. For me it was the same old grind, faction grind, more and more. Not to mention the ton of issues they had and still have with it after 2 years of being up. Simply put, i honestly don't think it's a game for the hardcore or serious game player. There has never been anything innovative about WoW. The only thing that has been are thier followers of followers. That's the only thing about opinions, most of the time they are nothing of what we want to hear. Just be respectful in another persons' view. Bashing, flaming, and all the other forms of degrading someone, just makes you yourself, look like an idiot, moron, nitwit, and the list goes on and on. I've done my fair share of these things, and honestly, I'll most likely still do them. Just with some remorse.
No offense gameloading but most of my guild DID hang around as long as we did because we enjoyed playing with each other.
And I'm sure many do, but is a SERIOUS amount of people playing WoW, and by that I mean thousands of subscribers, are just playing for the heck of playing together? I doubt it. and even if they are, why would they suddenly move to WAR? Why not to the other games? why would they pick WAR of all games.
If you do not think it realistic for people to hang around because of playing with friends then I do not know what to tell you. About 20 people that I go to college with became close and we chose to play WoW for two years. We hung around after the xpac hoping things would change and not be boring to us but it did not deliver. None of us wanted to admit it was just the same stuff in prettier colors until one day in the cafe one of us said something. Then we all had to admit 80% of the reason we were still playing was because we didn't want to be the only one leaving out of an entire group of real life friends. To each his own. If you can not find truth in that, then that is on you.
No offense gameloading but most of my guild DID hang around as long as we did because we enjoyed playing with each other.
And I'm sure many do, but is a SERIOUS amount of people playing WoW, and by that I mean thousands of subscribers, are just playing for the heck of playing together? I doubt it. and even if they are, why would they suddenly move to WAR? Why not to the other games? why would they pick WAR of all games.I didn't mean they were going to all go to WAR. I just mean they are going to be leaving to play other things. WAR for the realm vs realm if that is what they are into. I would go into detail on each game coming out but if you can not see the cool features they each provide, I do not know what to tell you.
But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
*sigh* By losing subscribers I'm talking about a serious amount of subscribers. not 100 or 200. I am talking about those 700k players that are supposed to leave WoW after WAR, AoC and Lotro. When I talk about losing subscribers, I mean to see that 8,5 million number go down. really, what use is it to post things like "well, I quit, and my entire guild quit, and I know 5 other guilds that quit!" all those players combined are about 0,01% of the total playerbase.
Originally posted by whitedelight
Those users are either just playing because they are close to their guild and/or they are wanting to playing something until other games come out. I do not see how you can honestly think that WoW will not lose some users to ANY MMORPGS coming out this year. It does not have to be LOTRO or WAR, but any mmo.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Uhh the fact that LOTRO online has presold a ton of boxes. That gives a reason to think it will do well.
Except there is only one key diffrence here. Just because a game gets a lot of pre-orders, does not mean it will gain a lot of subscribers. Its the people BEYOND the first month that will decide if a game is successfull or not. The ones who have been looking forward to the game will get it as soon as possible anyway. that might be 100, 200 thousand people. but the trick is to get people AFTER that first month to play, the ones that aren't of the first wave of fanbois. that could be through good reviews, advertisement, word of mouth. Not to mention that Turbine is cheating. Have you seen the benefits you get for pre-ordering Lord of the rings online? Its rediculous, it has so many advantages that you would have to be silly to wait for it to apear in stores instead of pre-ordering.
And vanguard has never had more hype in the overall MMO genre then WAR. WAR is one of the most hyped games to come out.
Plese, Vanguard had enough hype to sell 150k boxes in one month. it was very hyped alright.
Just because you seem to think WoW is a great game and are blinded by that does not mean everyone playing it currently thinks the same.
As you can see from my signature I am obviously not a fanboy of any game. I have played almost everything ever put on the market. If I am a fanboy of anything it is the Genre of MMOs. I can also tell from your arguments that you are not a Business major in college. It is easy to see that you seem to think that success is actually based on the quality of the product. That couldn't be further from the truth. Especially in America. We are a nation of sheep. Our opinions are easily bought and our dollar is easily swayed by advertisements. Heck most Americans who vote are swayed more by the television ads then by what they actually know about the candidates.
World of Warcraft's success has nothing to do with being a great product. It never has to be a good product. I guess some people just don't realize how much advertising can affect a product's success. If a company was to make a MMO that was half way decent. Lets say graphics similar to WoW (so that it can run on any gaming PC) and with a decent amount of content. And then took that product and put the rest of their money into advertisement. Lets say Bill Gates was pissed off and wanted to crush the competition in the MMO market (pretty silly but lets just say so) so he pays people to go door to door and try to sell the game to every family in the world. ( A crazy amount of advertising dollars spent, but will make my point) Even if he gets 1% of the people he tries to sell the game to he would end up with way more people playing his game then WoW has.
Do you really think that it cost Blizzard all the money they spent just on developing the game? No a lot of that cost was in advertising. Smaller companies just can't compete with that type of cash. Yes they can put out a product that is just as polished and has just as much content. But it takes a huge company with money to burn to advertise their game.
And in that aspect EA has deep pockets.
And it really doesn't matter in this conversation if people buy a game because its EA or not. All that matters is that a lot of people buy EA games and if those games have advertisements for WAR then there is a real good chance more people will buy WAR. Think of it this way. If Microsoft had somehow bought Turbine way back when they worked with them. And now they were releasing LOTRO as Microsoft/Turbine instead of just Turbine. Microsoft could have every single copy of Windows play a small LOTRO movie to advertise the game. Do you really think that type of advertisement (on over 90% of hte world's PCs) wouldn't get more people to purchase the game then what WoW currently has?
What people need to realize is that the actual content of the game isn't important, just as the taste of a McDonald's Burger isn't important. What is important is how often people see your product. The more often they see it and the more likely they will choose to use it. Even when they don't need it. And even when it is bad for you. Cigarettes are a great example of this. If advertising wasn't the most important factor of selling something then why did they pull all the Cigarette ads? They even talk about not having movie stars smoking as often etc.
Advertising an MMO is enough to get people to be INTRESTED in it, not to KEEP PLAYING it. Nobody pays 15$ a month for something they don't enjoy. Nobody. it would go against common sense. If WoW wasn't of high quality, then people wouldn't keep playing it. its simple as that. World of Warcraft received excellent reviews, the best scores of any other MMORPG to date. You won't get people by mere advertisement alone. There is a huge diffrence with PURCHASING an mmorpg box, and playing an mmorpg box.
The other thing you are doing Gameloading is focusing too much on why will they leave for WAR. It won't just be WAR it will be every other game on the market. A pretty significant amount of WoW players will be trying something new. As I said it before it you think all of the players were so happy in WoW why did Blizzard drop the raid size down? Why did they add more stuff for casual players? You seem to think that everyone just loved it so much just the way it is. People who like to PVP will leave WoW and will leave in large numbers when a newer PVP game comes. they will do this because WoW currently is way to gear centric and that doesn't appeal to PVPers. So what ever % of the market that enjoys doing some PVP (not full time PVPers either, casual people who enjoy some PVP once in awhile hated WoW's current system) will leave. Then a good amount of the raiders will leave when something new comes that offers them newer loot and more ingame fame to stroke their e-peens. They will try and find that new PVE game that allows them to do what they want.
See the grass is always greener on the otherside of the hill. So people are always thinking about leaving. That is human nature.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
*sigh* By losing subscribers I'm talking about a serious amount of subscribers. not 100 or 200. I am talking about those 700k players that are supposed to leave WoW after WAR, AoC and Lotro. When I talk about losing subscribers, I mean to see that 8,5 million number go down. really, what use is it to post things like "well, I quit, and my entire guild quit, and I know 5 other guilds that quit!" all those players combined are about 0,01% of the total playerbase.
Originally posted by whitedelight
Those users are either just playing because they are close to their guild and/or they are wanting to playing something until other games come out. I do not see how you can honestly think that WoW will not lose some users to ANY MMORPGS coming out this year. It does not have to be LOTRO or WAR, but any mmo.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement.
riginally posted by Cabe2323
The other thing you are doing Gameloading is focusing too much on why will they leave for WAR. It won't just be WAR it will be every other game on the market. A pretty significant amount of WoW players will be trying something new. As I said it before it you think all of the players were so happy in WoW why did Blizzard drop the raid size down? Why did they add more stuff for casual players? You seem to think that everyone just loved it so much just the way it is. People who like to PVP will leave WoW and will leave in large numbers when a newer PVP game comes. they will do this because WoW currently is way to gear centric and that doesn't appeal to PVPers. So what ever % of the market that enjoys doing some PVP (not full time PVPers either, casual people who enjoy some PVP once in awhile hated WoW's current system) will leave. Then a good amount of the raiders will leave when something new comes that offers them newer loot and more ingame fame to stroke their e-peens. They will try and find that new PVE game that allows them to do what they want.
See the grass is always greener on the otherside of the hill. So people are always thinking about leaving. That is human nature.
No significant amount WoW players have left WoW in the almost 2,5 years the game has been around. again, why would they move to WAR? All I hear is some speculation that a large amount of players are supposed to leave for WAR once it comes out, but I do not see anything that even hints that that will actually happen. all I see here is speculation that is based on nothing at all. Blizzard changed it because that is what the community wanted. But just because people complain about certain things does not mean they are unhappy with the entire game.
What makes you think WAR will not add new people, or take any from WoW? I am sure people said the same thing about WoW, don't believe the hype, the game won't ever sell like EQ, blah blah blah. Times change, and other people may want to play other things. Not everyone wants to play WoW all the time.
What is WoW going to do to continue bringing players in? I do not know how you can boast like that stating that WoW will continue to grow, but you think there is no shot for WAR to take subs away from WoW, or even bring in new MMO players.
What is WoW going to do to continue bringing players in? I do not know how you can boast like that stating that WoW will continue to grow, but you think there is no shot for WAR to take subs away from WoW, or even bring in new MMO players.
The same thing they have been doing the past couple of 2,5 years. they gained 8,5 million players by doing this for 2,5 years, they would be silly to change their strategy. it works.
Originally posted by Arkane11
What makes you think WAR will not add new people, or take any from WoW? I am sure people said the same thing about WoW, don't believe the hype, the game won't ever sell like EQ, blah blah blah. Times change, and other people may want to play other things. Not everyone wants to play WoW all the time.
I have explained that in great detail in the above posts.
You would lose all credability stating that you truly do believe there is no chance for another game to reach 1 mil subs, and wow will never lose subs, but just continue to grow.
You would lose all credability stating that you truly do believe there is no chance for another game to reach 1 mil subs, and wow will never lose subs, but just continue to grow.
I have NEVER said that never another game will reach 1 million subs, nor did I ever say WoW will never lose subscribers. But just not yet, its too early. WoW is gaining 500 thousand subscribers in just 2 months. the game is still going to strong to start fading, or to have any other game in the west claim as much as 1 million subscribers. oh it will happen alright, but not this year, and I don't think it will happen next year either.
But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
*sigh* By losing subscribers I'm talking about a serious amount of subscribers. not 100 or 200. I am talking about those 700k players that are supposed to leave WoW after WAR, AoC and Lotro. When I talk about losing subscribers, I mean to see that 8,5 million number go down. really, what use is it to post things like "well, I quit, and my entire guild quit, and I know 5 other guilds that quit!" all those players combined are about 0,01% of the total playerbase.
Originally posted by whitedelight
Those users are either just playing because they are close to their guild and/or they are wanting to playing something until other games come out. I do not see how you can honestly think that WoW will not lose some users to ANY MMORPGS coming out this year. It does not have to be LOTRO or WAR, but any mmo.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement. Ok you said that you need quality, name recognition, hype and advertisement.
Well we can easily say that EA mythic will provide the Advertisement and definitely the name recognition for the developer. A bigger recognition then Blizzard has. So that is two of the 4 you think is needed.
Hype - well WAR won all types of awards at E3 and is hyped all over the place on Gaming sites.
Quality - well WAR will basically have been in Beta for the last 6.5 years. Mythic was able to learn all of the lessons needed to make a great game with their experience on Dark Age of Camelot.
You really need to look at what you say though. Your assumptions are very illogical. You know nothing about the actual market place yet seem to think that WoW is the only game that can bring in people? How do you know that their aren't 50 million people that looked at WoW and said man I would love to play a game like that if only it was in World "?". For all you know their could be millions and millions of people that look at WoW and say I wish I could play a game like that in Middle Earth.
It is just plain silly to think that 1 game only can add to the genre in significant numbers. At this point anyone that wanted to play WoW has already in the NA/EU market place. There is no way they will add anything significant to the numbers they have already. So out of 69% of american households that play Video Games, the best blizzard did was about 1% of those people. And somehow you don't think the other 200million American video game players don't want a game for them? It isn't that they haven't heard about WoW. They said no! They didn't want to play the game. And don't try and say its because of the 15 per month. That is less then going to 1 movie at the theater. It isn't the cost that prevents them from playing. It's the fact that a game hasn't come that offers them something they want.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
sorry wow sucks. graphics suck. game play sucks. the subs if you can call it that are mostly asian gold/powerleveling sites.
there is maybe 1million subs that are legit, the rest are bots or other accounts people sign up to go on to other servers or when their account is full.
warhammer has been around for way longer then wow. to think wow would beat warhammer is laughable. it may not seem like it but warhammer is way more popular then wow will ever be.
the main fact is alot of noobs popped their mmo-cherry with wow so they think wow is the only game on the market. when in fact its not, its one of the alright ones.
its got no pvp. IM SORRY BUT that is no PVP. pvp is raids and truely uncontroled pvp. not waiting in line to jump in and capture a flag thats just retarded. pvp should never be limited to a small arena thats no pvp thats arena dueling.
WAR is going to be RVR which means its map wide. not some crappy arena where you wait in line to hopefully fight someone. i cant stand controlled battles it takes the fun out of it. as well warhammer has far more players then wow. seeing as there are stores selling it in every 50 us states. most of canada. europe and some parts of asia and south pacific.
so all in all it should have atleast the same number of players that wow has only it will be better pvp wise and graphicly
OH and the dancing in WOW is sooooooooooooooo retarded they shouldnt have added it. GW has better dancing then wow has.
You would lose all credability stating that you truly do believe there is no chance for another game to reach 1 mil subs, and wow will never lose subs, but just continue to grow.
I have NEVER said that never another game will reach 1 million subs, nor did I ever say WoW will never lose subscribers. But just not yet, its too early. WoW is gaining 500 thousand subscribers in just 2 months. the game is still going to strong to start fading, or to have any other game in the west claim as much as 1 million subscribers. oh it will happen alright, but not this year, and I don't think it will happen next year either. Not this year? That is silly to think. WoW isn't still gaining subscribers in the NA/EU market. I bet if a new press release came out for April we would already see the lost subscribers. But of course they won't put one out. Yes they had a bunch of people because a whole lot came back to try TBC. But to think they are still growing in the NA/EU market is just poor business sense. They have offered the same product for 2.5 years. Nothing done differently. What makes you think that they are adding people in markets where the game has been out a long time? They are adding subscribers by releasing in new markets. That is what has spurred their growth.
It is similar to a Movie Release. It releases and the most money it makes is the first few weekends. and then less and less people are going to see it. Because those people have already chosen whether they wanted to see the movie. They made the choice in the first few months it was out. Same thing with WoW. The potential customers out there for WoW have already been advertised to death about the game. It has been all over the news, its been on southpark. It is already out there as much as it possibly can. It has no where in this market to go but down. If there were 5 million people that wanted to play WoW in NA they already would be. If there was 100 million people that wanted to play WoW in NA/EU they would be already. That is what you don't seem to understand. In the markets where they have free reign and have been in them for awhile they have already reached their peak.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad.
And vanguard has never had more hype in the overall MMO genre then WAR. WAR is one of the most hyped games to come out.
Just because you seem to think WoW is a great game and are blinded by that does not mean everyone playing it currently thinks the same.
As you can see from my signature I am obviously not a fanboy of any game. I have played almost everything ever put on the market. If I am a fanboy of anything it is the Genre of MMOs. I can also tell from your arguments that you are not a Business major in college. It is easy to see that you seem to think that success is actually based on the quality of the product. That couldn't be further from the truth. Especially in America. We are a nation of sheep. Our opinions are easily bought and our dollar is easily swayed by advertisements. Heck most Americans who vote are swayed more by the television ads then by what they actually know about the candidates.
World of Warcraft's success has nothing to do with being a great product. It never has to be a good product. I guess some people just don't realize how much advertising can affect a product's success. If a company was to make a MMO that was half way decent. Lets say graphics similar to WoW (so that it can run on any gaming PC) and with a decent amount of content. And then took that product and put the rest of their money into advertisement. Lets say Bill Gates was pissed off and wanted to crush the competition in the MMO market (pretty silly but lets just say so) so he pays people to go door to door and try to sell the game to every family in the world. ( A crazy amount of advertising dollars spent, but will make my point) Even if he gets 1% of the people he tries to sell the game to he would end up with way more people playing his game then WoW has.
Do you really think that it cost Blizzard all the money they spent just on developing the game? No a lot of that cost was in advertising. Smaller companies just can't compete with that type of cash. Yes they can put out a product that is just as polished and has just as much content. But it takes a huge company with money to burn to advertise their game.
And in that aspect EA has deep pockets.
And it really doesn't matter in this conversation if people buy a game because its EA or not. All that matters is that a lot of people buy EA games and if those games have advertisements for WAR then there is a real good chance more people will buy WAR. Think of it this way. If Microsoft had somehow bought Turbine way back when they worked with them. And now they were releasing LOTRO as Microsoft/Turbine instead of just Turbine. Microsoft could have every single copy of Windows play a small LOTRO movie to advertise the game. Do you really think that type of advertisement (on over 90% of hte world's PCs) wouldn't get more people to purchase the game then what WoW currently has?
What people need to realize is that the actual content of the game isn't important, just as the taste of a McDonald's Burger isn't important. What is important is how often people see your product. The more often they see it and the more likely they will choose to use it. Even when they don't need it. And even when it is bad for you. Cigarettes are a great example of this. If advertising wasn't the most important factor of selling something then why did they pull all the Cigarette ads? They even talk about not having movie stars smoking as often etc.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
See the grass is always greener on the otherside of the hill. So people are always thinking about leaving. That is human nature.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement.
riginally posted by Cabe2323
The other thing you are doing Gameloading is focusing too much on why will they leave for WAR. It won't just be WAR it will be every other game on the market. A pretty significant amount of WoW players will be trying something new. As I said it before it you think all of the players were so happy in WoW why did Blizzard drop the raid size down? Why did they add more stuff for casual players? You seem to think that everyone just loved it so much just the way it is. People who like to PVP will leave WoW and will leave in large numbers when a newer PVP game comes. they will do this because WoW currently is way to gear centric and that doesn't appeal to PVPers. So what ever % of the market that enjoys doing some PVP (not full time PVPers either, casual people who enjoy some PVP once in awhile hated WoW's current system) will leave. Then a good amount of the raiders will leave when something new comes that offers them newer loot and more ingame fame to stroke their e-peens. They will try and find that new PVE game that allows them to do what they want.
See the grass is always greener on the otherside of the hill. So people are always thinking about leaving. That is human nature.
No significant amount WoW players have left WoW in the almost 2,5 years the game has been around. again, why would they move to WAR? All I hear is some speculation that a large amount of players are supposed to leave for WAR once it comes out, but I do not see anything that even hints that that will actually happen. all I see here is speculation that is based on nothing at all. Blizzard changed it because that is what the community wanted. But just because people complain about certain things does not mean they are unhappy with the entire game.
I have explained that in great detail in the above posts.
You would lose all credability stating that you truly do believe there is no chance for another game to reach 1 mil subs, and wow will never lose subs, but just continue to grow.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement. Ok you said that you need quality, name recognition, hype and advertisement.
Well we can easily say that EA mythic will provide the Advertisement and definitely the name recognition for the developer. A bigger recognition then Blizzard has. So that is two of the 4 you think is needed.
Hype - well WAR won all types of awards at E3 and is hyped all over the place on Gaming sites.
Quality - well WAR will basically have been in Beta for the last 6.5 years. Mythic was able to learn all of the lessons needed to make a great game with their experience on Dark Age of Camelot.
You really need to look at what you say though. Your assumptions are very illogical. You know nothing about the actual market place yet seem to think that WoW is the only game that can bring in people? How do you know that their aren't 50 million people that looked at WoW and said man I would love to play a game like that if only it was in World "?". For all you know their could be millions and millions of people that look at WoW and say I wish I could play a game like that in Middle Earth.
It is just plain silly to think that 1 game only can add to the genre in significant numbers. At this point anyone that wanted to play WoW has already in the NA/EU market place. There is no way they will add anything significant to the numbers they have already. So out of 69% of american households that play Video Games, the best blizzard did was about 1% of those people. And somehow you don't think the other 200million American video game players don't want a game for them? It isn't that they haven't heard about WoW. They said no! They didn't want to play the game. And don't try and say its because of the 15 per month. That is less then going to 1 movie at the theater. It isn't the cost that prevents them from playing. It's the fact that a game hasn't come that offers them something they want.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
sorry wow sucks. graphics suck. game play sucks. the subs if you can call it that are mostly asian gold/powerleveling sites.
there is maybe 1million subs that are legit, the rest are bots or other accounts people sign up to go on to other servers or when their account is full.
warhammer has been around for way longer then wow. to think wow would beat warhammer is laughable. it may not seem like it but warhammer is way more popular then wow will ever be.
the main fact is alot of noobs popped their mmo-cherry with wow so they think wow is the only game on the market. when in fact its not, its one of the alright ones.
its got no pvp. IM SORRY BUT that is no PVP. pvp is raids and truely uncontroled pvp. not waiting in line to jump in and capture a flag thats just retarded. pvp should never be limited to a small arena thats no pvp thats arena dueling.
WAR is going to be RVR which means its map wide. not some crappy arena where you wait in line to hopefully fight someone. i cant stand controlled battles it takes the fun out of it. as well warhammer has far more players then wow. seeing as there are stores selling it in every 50 us states. most of canada. europe and some parts of asia and south pacific.
so all in all it should have atleast the same number of players that wow has only it will be better pvp wise and graphicly
OH and the dancing in WOW is sooooooooooooooo retarded they shouldnt have added it. GW has better dancing then wow has.
It is similar to a Movie Release. It releases and the most money it makes is the first few weekends. and then less and less people are going to see it. Because those people have already chosen whether they wanted to see the movie. They made the choice in the first few months it was out. Same thing with WoW. The potential customers out there for WoW have already been advertised to death about the game. It has been all over the news, its been on southpark. It is already out there as much as it possibly can. It has no where in this market to go but down. If there were 5 million people that wanted to play WoW in NA they already would be. If there was 100 million people that wanted to play WoW in NA/EU they would be already. That is what you don't seem to understand. In the markets where they have free reign and have been in them for awhile they have already reached their peak.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)