Brad has posted a long message on the FOH forums. You can read the whole text here http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27757-nino-one-upsides-vg-66.html#post699867 I would like to quote the paragraph including the "public apology" and ask for the pulse of the community here. "Certainly none of the above mistakes were planned for. Many/most were unexpected. Some of the mistakes were directly our fault, and some more indirectly and some totally beyond our control. I could write another one of my missives going into a lot more detail and maybe one day I will, but I will spare you my verbosity tonight. No matter what ,however, I was CEO and the buck stops here. None of the above do I use as an excuse as if life was unfair to us. We made some bad calls and were put into some bad situations. But I should have known better, planned better, and reacted better, so I take full responsibility. Most assuredly I cannot stress how proud I am of the Vanguard team, past and present, and all of the hard work, sweat, and tears that were put into the game. The team was and is incredible and it was an honor working with them. So regardless of screw-up or mistake, I take responsibility and apologize. The team should feel nothing but pride and a great sense of accomplishment."
Its not a very public apology when its posted on a guild fansite that happens to number some devs amongst its members, he should be apologising on the Sigil main site and possibly SOE main site to the people he has annoyed rather than a lame post on the web site of known Vanguard zealots.
I really dont need an apology from Brad. He did his best. He had tons of money, and several years, he took a HUGE leap of faith and a huge risk, and tried to build a world a lot of people would enjoy. And he did not hit the mark... I am not angry at a man for trying, its more that most would do. Most just sit at home saying "I can do the best game EVAH!" but they would not dare to risk their time or their money, or to be indebted for the rest of their lives to do so.
Very nice post and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Overall, however, I feel a great sadness. It seems to me that Brad is a really nice guy, but he's got no slightest idea how to manage a team of 100 peoples. It takes much more than just having "a vision" and beneath all his pride of the guys who work in Sigil and vehement attempts to defend his game I believe I can see a really frightened man. Yes, he wanted to do his best, yes, he thought he'd do it. But it appears to me he's realized by now this was just too much for him. He should've worked as a creative producer or something similar. By no means should've he been appointed as CEO. Well, what's done is done. I can only say once again that I will always respect Brad for his boldness, but I will also always consider this to be one of the most sad moments in the history of MMORPGs and computer games in general. As to the fans, I can't say much about them since I decided not to play the game after trying the open beta. But yes, judging by the forums, they's simply mad. Seriously, I'm scared by these people, they practically threaten to kill anyone who dares to say a word against the game.
100% agreed with both of you.
I can't believe all the fanbois were in beta just being 'yes men' so to speak.
Brad announces no official forums, they all just /clap for his decision then defend it till the end acting like they should just be told what to do when it comes to a game they will be paying for.
Public? I don't think so. Apology? I wouldn't exactly call it that either.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Originally posted by Parsifal57 Its not a very public apology when its posted on a guild fansite that happens to number some devs amongst its members, he should be apologising on the Sigil main site and possibly SOE main site to the people he has annoyed rather than a lame post on the web site of known Vanguard zealots.
I agree. If Brad's intention was to apologize to the community, he should've posted on the game's official site. I'd have more respect for the post if that had occurred, and was followed-up with a refund for days played in an admittedly broken product.
Then again, why people jump to play a newly released game is beyond me. You'd think by now we would've learned to do otherwise. : )
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I'm a die hard MMO'r and I have played quite a few of the games out there. I won't tell you which ones I prefer to play and risk a flaming, but that said, I was looking forward to playing VG. I got a chance to play in the open beta and decided the game was at least good enough to buy and see if I liked it.
I didn't. It has great potential, but it isn't ready. If I didn't have something else to play, I would probably still be subscribed simply to feed my addiction to MMOs. However, I do have something else to play and I don't need VG right now, so it is going to sit on a shelf for awhile until I want to try it again...just like several other games I have tried and didn't like.
I accept his apology and think that he has incredible courage to stand up to his mistakes like he did. That isn't going to make me want to play his game again, and I won't until some time down the road and I get bored with what I am doing and want to take another look.
So to Brad: Thanks for trying man; I hope someday you see the vision of your game world realized.
To those of you that get so angry over someone else's failure, I'll bet the things you say and flames you spread are nothing compared to hell that he has put himself through over this game. The bottom line is that it is only $50...if you didn't have it to spend, you shouldn't have spent it on a game without waiting for a few months to see how well it worked. Move on or stick it out, either way, just stop complaining.
Psin
Wolfling Psionisist
----------------------------
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
Im sooooo sorry, it wasnt my fault and it would happen to anyone, but im sooooo sorry anyway.
PLEASE send me your money !
Im sooooo sorry.
Yes, i made mistakes, said things that i thought might/could possibly be true(in some alternate universe) ,that really werent, and yes i should have known better and not said those things, BUT IM SOOOOOOOO sorry now !
Really i am ! PLEASE send me more of your money !
Hhahahahhahahahahhahahahahah.
I am NOT capable of making a decent mmo, i over hype everything i think will get you to send me your money, BUT I do say "IM SORRY" as often as i can !
Its not like i didnt say im sorry. I did, NOW please send me more of your money !
Really, i said im sorry, i NEED your money ! SEND it to me NOW !
Please !
Hhahahahhahahahhahahahahahhaaha
P.S. I said im sorry, now send me more of your money.
Thanks for the apology, Mr. McQuaid. It still won't make me subscribe to Vanguard in its current condition, but I respect the effort and care with which you and your team went about trying to create a game you all felt strongly about.
Good luck over the next few months to a year, though. Things are going to get quite rough for Vanguard, I think. Hopefully, your game will be able to settle into a comfortable niche amidst all of the new MMORPGs that are going to be released in 2007. While "niche success" may not be what you intended for Vanguard, it is certainly better than oblivion.
apparently i'm a vanbois, because i played in beta, i 'bugged' when i thought i needed to, i was involved in testing, i was involved on the forums, i have defended the game, i have played the game, i have enjoyed the game. i think the game is still quite broken, and i look forward to that being resolved so that i can 'even more' enjoy the game that i am already having fun with. people see 'pitful excuses', i see valid, realistic responses to the many things that can happen while investing FIVE YEARS of ones life and whole scads of peoples money into a project one believed very strongly in, and appears to still feel very strongly about. I am glad that BmcQ had the 'cojones' to step up and say what he did in the original, somewhat longwinded, post I see alot of things that still need to be fixed in this game, but i also see alot of things that i am willing to pay my sub until they are resolved. not everyones choice, doesn't have to be. anyways, i didn't vote, not because i'm a vanbois, but because on the whole i didn't see it as an 'apology' merely an acknowledgement of how things are, how they got that way, and how things will move on
but what do i know, i'm just a vanbois.
I am just curious but what if you were talking about a car here instead of an mmo? Would you still accept a car and pay for a loan that didn't work properly. I am in no way for or against this game but am curious in general as to why we as gamers allow unfinished products to keep being sold. I don't think anyone would put up with it if it was any other product. Like you said it is your choice and I am happy you are enjoying this game. No ill will towards anyone meant by this post its just a curiousity I have.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I remember quite a few people here, like Sharkypal, that were pretty ruthless in their attacks on people questioning the performance of the game, or whatever. And there were others on the beta boards, especially those in Halcyon Affinity.
I remember the exact same thing happening with EQ2 when it was in beta. When I spoke out against a lot of the mechanics they had in place, the fanbois went apeshit. I still enjoy the one kid that told me I should die because I was trying to ruin the game. Funny thing was, within 6 months of release, the devs had, due to massive whining, removed pretty much all the things I had abuse hurled at me for saying they should have been removed in the first place. The people whining the loudest? I'd wager that it was the very same people hurling insults at me just a few months earlier.
Pretty much the exact same thing happened with VG. Except this time, I just said screw it, and didn't bother.
Ironic that VG seems to be following EQ2's path almost to a tee. We'll see if there isn't a CU in another month or two. I'm betting there is.
Sigil keeps throwing out something when subscription renewal time comes. First it was double XP weekend. Now brad goes and apologizes to the MMO community.
Who cares. Its just marketing. They are trying to keep people renewing and will say and do anything to meet their goal. They are struggling to survive.
All this drama is most definitely retarded.
In the end its all the same, Brad talking people listening and still Sigil doesn't get it done as a company.
Shut up, fix the game,make it fun, people will come back !
I respect this guy for coming clean with the community.
But he lost credibality with me when he blamed some of his problems with WARCRAFTS EXPANSION.
as one of his big touts about hsi game was the difference between it and warcraft. and the mere fact their community didnt want arcraft players in their game.
Still points for growing some balls and coming clean, if i was intrested in your game i would give you money ( after it worked)
I really dont need an apology from Brad. He did his best. He had tons of money, and several years, he took a HUGE leap of faith and a huge risk, and tried to build a world a lot of people would enjoy. And he did not hit the mark... I am not angry at a man for trying, its more that most would do. Most just sit at home saying "I can do the best game EVAH!" but they would not dare to risk their time or their money, or to be indebted for the rest of their lives to do so.
No, I dont want an apology from Brad... I want one from the hundred or so of fanatic crazed fans that has been EXTREMLY abusive for the last two years, doing their best to silence ANY voice of concern, or honest attempt to help the game by pointing out flaws that needed work. Where in the sevens hells did Vanguard find so many stupid, arrogant, abusive fanatics that were intent on stopping ANY attempt at improving the game, at helping Brad find that mark. Pointing out flaws, bugs, problems and anything that could make the game less than succesful, but instead walk into a solid wall of abuse and people telling those that try to help to"Shut up and stop the hate. go back to WoW"
Those people.... those that think they are the "best, most loyal fans in the world", destroyed the game whole lot more than anyone else, be it Brad or hater. Second, I want an apology from the people having forum communities, both vanguards betaforum, sites like this one and anywhere else, that let those diehard fanatics roam freely, say whatever they wanted and call people by whatever name, but then silence or in worst case ban anyone who dared to stand up tot he wall of abuse and answer them. I cant even begin to figure out why a game have a beta, when its not allowed to discuss the game in the beta forum. ANY attempt to point out more that bug reports, to try to discuss the flaws of the game during beta was met with the exact same wall of abuse, completly pointless and hurting the game immensly... But again, anyone defending vanguard could say whatever they wanted... If someone responded in the same tone... Not so lucky.
The people that honstely tried to help the game spent months, up to to years, doing their best to reach the ears of Sigil, but in the end.. having no support form anywhere, and constantly having to defend years of experience against a wall of mindless, brainless abuse. Not discussion, not argumentation.. insults. People just gave up... In the end those that helped just turned on the same abuse, it was the only discussion that worked, it was the only argumentation happening... "Yomomma" jokes.
So from Brad...? no, not at all. he did an honest attempt.
I want it from the people that think silence is for the good of MMO development. That trying to shut up the development process will help the MMO genre. Those that never want to hear the new ideas and new sollutions, and is willing to go to any length to kill any kind of discussion. You... and the forum moderators that defend you.. hurt game evolution and quality more than anything else right now. MMOs are dying in a sea of conformity, and its greatest fans are killing them.
Yes! Thank you! My thoughts exactly.
Brad doesn't owe me an apology for a very simple reason-- I didn't invest in this game. I didn't buy it, and don't subscribe to it. My time spent playing it was in beta, and on a free trial, so IMO his apology should be reserved for those who actually paid for the game and who are paying for it now.
However, the hardcore Vanguard fans that heaped abuse on anyone who pointed out flaws in the game, both on the beta boards and on sites like this one, and others? Yeah. That's a whole other issue. I think many of those folks owe the rest of us an apology, especially since Brad has all but admitted that the very things we were talking about back then are still valid issues in the game now.
The mindless defenders of this game actually also owe Brad an apology, for the simple fact that they led him to believe that everything was fine, and that the people pointing out flaws were just jealous WoW players, or "haters" and that Vanguard was perfect the way it was. Those people did more of a disservice to the game than any single critical post ever could have.
Some things I was thinking about after reading his whole apology:
1) He thinks/hopes/expects subs to pick up as they get further away (4 - 6 months) from WoW:BC's release. But, in that time, doesn't MORE competition from FULL games appear? Or is he simply not worried about LotRO, PotBS, WAR, and Conan?
2) When he discusses sub numbers (like when he said they are closing in on 200k), does he have some method for discounting the subs that are having trouble cancelling because of SOE's billing problems? If not, then promoting numbers that are inflated is a bit deceptive.
3) At times, it seemed like he was preparing for a possible quitting/firing. Maybe I read into it too much.
4) I wondered if this post would have happened without those posts by Kendrick on the FoH boards.
Seemed like a pretty heartfelt post. Agree that there isn't much immediacy to it...more long range discussion. Still, nice of the guy to do.
As a consumer, I realize that there will be products that I like . . and products that I don't like. I did not like Vanguard at all. It had very little that appealed to me, and a lot that didn't. However, I sincerely wish everyone who says that they are having fun with Vanguard many years of great fun.
Apology accepted, Brad, but you will have to go a long way before I purchase another one of your products.
I respect this guy for coming clean with the community.
But he lost credibality with me when he blamed some of his problems with WARCRAFTS EXPANSION.
as one of his big touts about hsi game was the difference between it and warcraft. and the mere fact their community didnt want arcraft players in their game.
Still points for growing some balls and coming clean, if i was intrested in your game i would give you money ( after it worked)
How is that coming clean? The site he posted it on is renowned for being his stomping grounds. It also is a site where many VG Players new to the FoH site will be waiting for quite some time for a right to post comments as they really have not been issuing posting rights except for on an exclusive basis for some time.
I lost credibility when I realized that the company felt that talking direct to their customer base (Official Forums) was not something they felt would be good for the community. As you can see, I'm no Vanboi, even though they get my monthly money simply because I enjoy the game despite the numerous bugs. I do however get pissed off when as a paying customer I have to hear about your product from a 3rd party not even affiliated site. Be nice if I could pay them that way.
Lets get it straight folks:
Brad and Company talk frequently at FoH.
FoH won't let you comment on those boards unless you have an existing account or are part of the chosen, new accounts don't often get post rights, even after months of asking.
Basically:
I came to apologize to the community that pays for this game in a forum where they are not permitted in most cases to speak. Thus, I respect you all greatly, I just don't feel your worthy of my words directly.
I'm seriously reminded of the Wamu Commercials with the elite bankers toying with the customers and the banker boxes.
There are two groups of ex-EQ 1, UO, DAoC, etc. players out there: the ones that look back fondly on the years they put into EQ 1 and those who don't -- either they're upset or, more often, they simply have had their lives change and they don't have the time to play another EQ 1. So when they heard about Vanguard and all of the EQ 1 people working on it they didn't even give it a chance -- they simply assumed Vanguard would be as hard core as EQ 1 (when it absolutely isn't). We totally underestimated that second group, and I think if we had got the message out that Vanguard was not just another EQ with all of its time sinks, tedium, leveling times, necessary raiding, need for contiguous time commitments, and somehow got that message clearly and strongly through to that second group we would have launched more strongly.
....some people look back, sigh, and mutter 'never again'....
Yes they do. And some of us tried to tell him that. I know for a fact that he at least heard my voice because part of his responses to a discussion I had with him on the development boards became part of the FAQ for the game.
Now he says if they had, "..somehow got that message clearly and strongly through to that second group we would have launched more strongly." But I still think HE is the once who never really got the message. Just the fact that he posted this on the FOH boards is a pretty good indication of who he thinks is most important in the gamer community.
Still, it's good to see him say something like this. It's another indication that developers in general are beginning to get a glimmering of comprehension that catering to the uber guild minority doesn't exactly make good business sense.
And somewhere in there he mentioned teleportation. Geezus...I had a big argument right here on this board in which I predicted Vanguard would have teleportation or some form of very fast travel put in probably within the first year. People here told me I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about.
Heck I don't even like the idea of instant travel but given the nature of the game I KNEW it would be necessary. I'm just some guy who posts on message boards and I could see it. Why couldn't a professional development team with 100 people see it?
Sigh, i know many of you just cant resist having some "warm fuzzy" feelings for this guy.
But im gonna tell you the truth of the matter anyway in some small hope you will embrace it, despite the 'warm fuzzies" his constant stream of "im sorry" inspires in some of you.
Hes innept.He is.NO ONE is too blame but him.
Technology "not being where he thought it would be" isnt to blame. HE IS.
Fanbois blowing smoke up his, and everyone elses backside ,are NOT to blame.HE IS.
Another games expansion release timing is NOT to blame.HE IS.
In case your unsure of the point here. NO ONE OR THING IS TO BLAME, except poor old Brad.
Would you take money from your friends to perform heart surgery on them IF you had no skill at doing so ?
Would you take money from a friend or even a stranger , for any service or product you could not than provide ?
Well, guess what.This is basically what good ole "im soooo sorry Brad" has done.
So stop buying his "games", stop buying his excuses, and for the love of the MMO industry STOP BUYING his apologies.And than do the same to all the other "brads" in the MMO industry.While he might be among the worst to infest the MMO industry, hes for sure not alone.
To start I'm not a vanboi or hater of this game! Hell I've never played it! I have to give him credit for acknowleging short comings of the game and so forth, but I can hardley see this as a public acknowledement when it wasn't posted on an official forum for the game or SOE's Station. Hell even coming here and posting would have given him more credibility than going to a guild fan site of the game and posting.
Just the fact that this guy posted on the FOH guildboard, pandering ONCE AGAIN, to that little whiney retard Furor and his cheating pals, is proof enough for me where this game is going. scew this guy, SOE and anything associated with Fires of Heaven.
FOH/Furor ruined everquest. screw them right in the pooper.
Originally posted by pilto Just the fact that this guy posted on the FOH guildboard, pandering ONCE AGAIN, to that little whiney retard Furor and his cheating pals, is proof enough for me where this game is going. scew this guy, SOE and anything associated with Fires of Heaven. FOH/Furor ruined everquest. screw them right in the pooper.
That'd be the super coolest first post ever, if not for the fact that Furor left FoH 2-3 years ago when he started working as a dev for Blizzard. You know, on that little game they made called World of Warcraft? You may have heard of it.
Not sure how FoH ruined Everquest, either, but whatever floats your boat.
Nop I don’t accept the apology, I would accept a refund though, but I doubt I will ever see my money back. I mean, really I couldn’t care less about his pitiful excuses. Bottom line is, Brad screws his game, I spent 60$ for nothing…so I don’t care why the game went wrong…that’s not my problem…
Then you shouldn't have boughten it in the first place.. Problem solved.. Have a little compassion. It'd be sad if you were laying on the side of the road dying and people just passed you by because, "It wasn't thier problem". Be a damn human.
Hum and how I was supposed to know Vancrap would be unplayable on my pc? I meet the recommended specification; hell my video card is even better. Oh and by the way there’s a freaking difference about someone dying on the side of road and guy who have trouble with one of his game like Brad….
The whole point of that was because, "it wasn't your problem". I was making another scenerio similiar to that type of attitude. If your computer couldn't run it when it should have been able to, then you should have taken the time to let them know about it. I'm sure they would be glad to help you solve that problem. It's worth a shot a least.
For all those who say that FOH is not an official VG site and so the apology is not official enough, you have a point. And yet, out of all the VG affiliate sites, Brad chose FOH forums even from beta as His tribune. He has been often criticized for this choice, but has not changed his stance reasons known to himself. I don't think he was addressing the FOH folks exclusively. In fact, I would be suprised if He had picked another place and imho it would have appeared less public if he had done so.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Comments
100% agreed with both of you.
I can't believe all the fanbois were in beta just being 'yes men' so to speak.
Brad announces no official forums, they all just /clap for his decision then defend it till the end acting like they should just be told what to do when it comes to a game they will be paying for.
Public? I don't think so. Apology? I wouldn't exactly call it that either.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I agree. If Brad's intention was to apologize to the community, he should've posted on the game's official site. I'd have more respect for the post if that had occurred, and was followed-up with a refund for days played in an admittedly broken product.
Then again, why people jump to play a newly released game is beyond me. You'd think by now we would've learned to do otherwise. : )
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I didn't. It has great potential, but it isn't ready. If I didn't have something else to play, I would probably still be subscribed simply to feed my addiction to MMOs. However, I do have something else to play and I don't need VG right now, so it is going to sit on a shelf for awhile until I want to try it again...just like several other games I have tried and didn't like.
I accept his apology and think that he has incredible courage to stand up to his mistakes like he did. That isn't going to make me want to play his game again, and I won't until some time down the road and I get bored with what I am doing and want to take another look.
So to Brad: Thanks for trying man; I hope someday you see the vision of your game world realized.
To those of you that get so angry over someone else's failure, I'll bet the things you say and flames you spread are nothing compared to hell that he has put himself through over this game. The bottom line is that it is only $50...if you didn't have it to spend, you shouldn't have spent it on a game without waiting for a few months to see how well it worked. Move on or stick it out, either way, just stop complaining.
Psin
Wolfling Psionisist
----------------------------
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
Of course I will accept the apology. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not the game will become enjoyable enough to play it.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Hahhahahhahahhaahha FAR TOO FUNNY !
Im sooooo sorry, it wasnt my fault and it would happen to anyone, but im sooooo sorry anyway.
PLEASE send me your money !
Im sooooo sorry.
Yes, i made mistakes, said things that i thought might/could possibly be true(in some alternate universe) ,that really werent, and yes i should have known better and not said those things, BUT IM SOOOOOOOO sorry now !
Really i am ! PLEASE send me more of your money !
Hhahahahhahahahahhahahahahah.
I am NOT capable of making a decent mmo, i over hype everything i think will get you to send me your money, BUT I do say "IM SORRY" as often as i can !
Its not like i didnt say im sorry. I did, NOW please send me more of your money !
Really, i said im sorry, i NEED your money ! SEND it to me NOW !
Please !
Hhahahahhahahahhahahahahahhaaha
P.S. I said im sorry, now send me more of your money.
Snake oil for sale !
Snake oil here now, for sale !
Thanks for the apology, Mr. McQuaid. It still won't make me subscribe to Vanguard in its current condition, but I respect the effort and care with which you and your team went about trying to create a game you all felt strongly about.
Good luck over the next few months to a year, though. Things are going to get quite rough for Vanguard, I think. Hopefully, your game will be able to settle into a comfortable niche amidst all of the new MMORPGs that are going to be released in 2007. While "niche success" may not be what you intended for Vanguard, it is certainly better than oblivion.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Dota2 > Your mother
I'm gonna mirror what Harafnir said.
I remember quite a few people here, like Sharkypal, that were pretty ruthless in their attacks on people questioning the performance of the game, or whatever. And there were others on the beta boards, especially those in Halcyon Affinity.
I remember the exact same thing happening with EQ2 when it was in beta. When I spoke out against a lot of the mechanics they had in place, the fanbois went apeshit. I still enjoy the one kid that told me I should die because I was trying to ruin the game. Funny thing was, within 6 months of release, the devs had, due to massive whining, removed pretty much all the things I had abuse hurled at me for saying they should have been removed in the first place. The people whining the loudest? I'd wager that it was the very same people hurling insults at me just a few months earlier.
Pretty much the exact same thing happened with VG. Except this time, I just said screw it, and didn't bother.
Ironic that VG seems to be following EQ2's path almost to a tee. We'll see if there isn't a CU in another month or two. I'm betting there is.
Its funny.
Sigil keeps throwing out something when subscription renewal time comes. First it was double XP weekend. Now brad goes and apologizes to the MMO community.
Who cares. Its just marketing. They are trying to keep people renewing and will say and do anything to meet their goal. They are struggling to survive.
All this drama is most definitely retarded.
In the end its all the same, Brad talking people listening and still Sigil doesn't get it done as a company.
Shut up, fix the game,make it fun, people will come back !
-Allegria
But he lost credibality with me when he blamed some of his problems with WARCRAFTS EXPANSION.
as one of his big touts about hsi game was the difference between it and warcraft. and the mere fact their community didnt want arcraft players in their game.
Still points for growing some balls and coming clean, if i was intrested in your game i would give you money ( after it worked)
Yes! Thank you! My thoughts exactly.
Brad doesn't owe me an apology for a very simple reason-- I didn't invest in this game. I didn't buy it, and don't subscribe to it. My time spent playing it was in beta, and on a free trial, so IMO his apology should be reserved for those who actually paid for the game and who are paying for it now.
However, the hardcore Vanguard fans that heaped abuse on anyone who pointed out flaws in the game, both on the beta boards and on sites like this one, and others? Yeah. That's a whole other issue. I think many of those folks owe the rest of us an apology, especially since Brad has all but admitted that the very things we were talking about back then are still valid issues in the game now.
The mindless defenders of this game actually also owe Brad an apology, for the simple fact that they led him to believe that everything was fine, and that the people pointing out flaws were just jealous WoW players, or "haters" and that Vanguard was perfect the way it was. Those people did more of a disservice to the game than any single critical post ever could have.
Some things I was thinking about after reading his whole apology:
1) He thinks/hopes/expects subs to pick up as they get further away (4 - 6 months) from WoW:BC's release. But, in that time, doesn't MORE competition from FULL games appear? Or is he simply not worried about LotRO, PotBS, WAR, and Conan?
2) When he discusses sub numbers (like when he said they are closing in on 200k), does he have some method for discounting the subs that are having trouble cancelling because of SOE's billing problems? If not, then promoting numbers that are inflated is a bit deceptive.
3) At times, it seemed like he was preparing for a possible quitting/firing. Maybe I read into it too much.
4) I wondered if this post would have happened without those posts by Kendrick on the FoH boards.
Seemed like a pretty heartfelt post. Agree that there isn't much immediacy to it...more long range discussion. Still, nice of the guy to do.
Apology accepted, Brad, but you will have to go a long way before I purchase another one of your products.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
I lost credibility when I realized that the company felt that talking direct to their customer base (Official Forums) was not something they felt would be good for the community. As you can see, I'm no Vanboi, even though they get my monthly money simply because I enjoy the game despite the numerous bugs. I do however get pissed off when as a paying customer I have to hear about your product from a 3rd party not even affiliated site. Be nice if I could pay them that way.
Lets get it straight folks:
Brad and Company talk frequently at FoH.
FoH won't let you comment on those boards unless you have an existing account or are part of the chosen, new accounts don't often get post rights, even after months of asking.
Basically:
I came to apologize to the community that pays for this game in a forum where they are not permitted in most cases to speak. Thus, I respect you all greatly, I just don't feel your worthy of my words directly.
I'm seriously reminded of the Wamu Commercials with the elite bankers toying with the customers and the banker boxes.
The part of it that really caught my attention:
There are two groups of ex-EQ 1, UO, DAoC, etc. players out there: the ones that look back fondly on the years they put into EQ 1 and those who don't -- either they're upset or, more often, they simply have had their lives change and they don't have the time to play another EQ 1. So when they heard about Vanguard and all of the EQ 1 people working on it they didn't even give it a chance -- they simply assumed Vanguard would be as hard core as EQ 1 (when it absolutely isn't). We totally underestimated that second group, and I think if we had got the message out that Vanguard was not just another EQ with all of its time sinks, tedium, leveling times, necessary raiding, need for contiguous time commitments, and somehow got that message clearly and strongly through to that second group we would have launched more strongly.
....some people look back, sigh, and mutter 'never again'....
Yes they do. And some of us tried to tell him that. I know for a fact that he at least heard my voice because part of his responses to a discussion I had with him on the development boards became part of the FAQ for the game.
Now he says if they had, "..somehow got that message clearly and strongly through to that second group we would have launched more strongly." But I still think HE is the once who never really got the message. Just the fact that he posted this on the FOH boards is a pretty good indication of who he thinks is most important in the gamer community.
Still, it's good to see him say something like this. It's another indication that developers in general are beginning to get a glimmering of comprehension that catering to the uber guild minority doesn't exactly make good business sense.
And somewhere in there he mentioned teleportation. Geezus...I had a big argument right here on this board in which I predicted Vanguard would have teleportation or some form of very fast travel put in probably within the first year. People here told me I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about.
Heck I don't even like the idea of instant travel but given the nature of the game I KNEW it would be necessary. I'm just some guy who posts on message boards and I could see it. Why couldn't a professional development team with 100 people see it?
Sigh, i know many of you just cant resist having some "warm fuzzy" feelings for this guy.
But im gonna tell you the truth of the matter anyway in some small hope you will embrace it, despite the 'warm fuzzies" his constant stream of "im sorry" inspires in some of you.
Hes innept.He is.NO ONE is too blame but him.
Technology "not being where he thought it would be" isnt to blame. HE IS.
Fanbois blowing smoke up his, and everyone elses backside ,are NOT to blame.HE IS.
Another games expansion release timing is NOT to blame.HE IS.
In case your unsure of the point here. NO ONE OR THING IS TO BLAME, except poor old Brad.
Would you take money from your friends to perform heart surgery on them IF you had no skill at doing so ?
Would you take money from a friend or even a stranger , for any service or product you could not than provide ?
Well, guess what.This is basically what good ole "im soooo sorry Brad" has done.
So stop buying his "games", stop buying his excuses, and for the love of the MMO industry STOP BUYING his apologies.And than do the same to all the other "brads" in the MMO industry.While he might be among the worst to infest the MMO industry, hes for sure not alone.
Just the fact that this guy posted on the FOH guildboard, pandering ONCE AGAIN, to that little whiney retard Furor and his cheating pals, is proof enough for me where this game is going. scew this guy, SOE and anything associated with Fires of Heaven.
FOH/Furor ruined everquest. screw them right in the pooper.
That'd be the super coolest first post ever, if not for the fact that Furor left FoH 2-3 years ago when he started working as a dev for Blizzard. You know, on that little game they made called World of Warcraft? You may have heard of it.
Not sure how FoH ruined Everquest, either, but whatever floats your boat.
Hum and how I was supposed to know Vancrap would be unplayable on my pc? I meet the recommended specification; hell my video card is even better. Oh and by the way there’s a freaking difference about someone dying on the side of road and guy who have trouble with one of his game like Brad….
The whole point of that was because, "it wasn't your problem". I was making another scenerio similiar to that type of attitude. If your computer couldn't run it when it should have been able to, then you should have taken the time to let them know about it. I'm sure they would be glad to help you solve that problem. It's worth a shot a least.
For all those who say that FOH is not an official VG site and so the apology is not official enough, you have a point. And yet, out of all the VG affiliate sites, Brad chose FOH forums even from beta as His tribune. He has been often criticized for this choice, but has not changed his stance reasons known to himself. I don't think he was addressing the FOH folks exclusively. In fact, I would be suprised if He had picked another place and imho it would have appeared less public if he had done so.
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