You belittlel him by one painting a picture of him (that that may not be true).
So if I rephrase my question. But at this part it is purely retorical.
You do that because he said he disliked what TBC did to WoW and are that any better then what you claimed him, his type, to do?
He didn't say he personally didn't like what TBC did to WoW, he claimed (as fact) that WoW is going downhill since the TBC update. Then I said, that is bullshit, because TBC made the game a lot more accessible for the casual player, and people on the many forums are happy because of this.
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
You belittlel him by one painting a picture of him (that that may not be true).
So if I rephrase my question. But at this part it is purely retorical.
You do that because he said he disliked what TBC did to WoW and are that any better then what you claimed him, his type, to do?
He didn't say he personally didn't like what TBC did to WoW, he claimed (as fact) that WoW is going downhill since the TBC update. Then I said, that is bullshit, because TBC made the game a lot more accessible for the casual player, and people on the many forums are happy because of this.
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
You belittlel him by one painting a picture of him (that that may not be true).
So if I rephrase my question. But at this part it is purely retorical.
You do that because he said he disliked what TBC did to WoW and are that any better then what you claimed him, his type, to do?
He didn't say he personally didn't like what TBC did to WoW, he claimed (as fact) that WoW is going downhill since the TBC update. Then I said, that is bullshit, because TBC made the game a lot more accessible for the casual player, and people on the many forums are happy because of this.
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
Ye. Ok I'm tired. But thats true. Good to hear that, and enjoy your sleep then
This rubbish about "tech getting better and faster" and people will buy better computers is Brads lame excuse and frankly it's sickening to see him constantly say this.. People have already spent a lot of money upgrading and still the performance sucks big time. Besides, why should anyone buy anything to play a game like this?
How many haven't already spent money and have upgraded past the specs required only to find it never made a difference as the game still has terrible performance? A whole lot of folks including myself have so we know this bs of getting better tech is garbage.
His excuse like his game is totally lame. I'm glad more and more players are turning away from this game. I'm just sorry I defended this game from the start.
After reading several responses here I'd like to add, yes, he apologized but in reality it means squat as they're still taking people's money for them to play a game they (devs) know to be unfinished, bugged to the hilt and totally lame.
A sincere apology would be, we're closing til it's done and all players will recieve compensation in a form of free play for X amount of months, not continually taking peoples money while issuing some half-ass apologiy.
So his apology isn't worth anything, not the time nor effort it took to write it. It's like selling drugs you know kill people and you apologize for it but yet, you continue to sell them. Does it make sense? His apology is all sugar coating and nothing else, unfortunately it's so very transparent and anyone smart enough will see thru' it in a heartbeat.
NO!!!! This rubbish about "tech getting better and faster" and people will buy better computers is Brads lame excuse and frankly it's sickening to see him constantly say this.. People have already spent a lot of money upgrading and still the performance sucks big time. Besides, why should anyone buy anything to play a game like this? How many haven't already spent money and have upgraded past the specs required only to find it never made a difference as the game still has terrible performance? A whole lot of folks including myself have so we know this bs of getting better tech is garbage. His excuse like his game is totally lame. I'm glad more and more players are turning away from this game. I'm just sorry I defended this game from the start.
NVidia/Vista/AMD/Microsoft/Sigil will all develop new soft/hardware/patches/drivers/updates or do you think tech stops right of now? Besides who in his right mind would upgrade his or her computer just because a developer has somehow in some words told the cunsumer i would be better to upgrade your system? Common sence would upgrade mainly when he or she feels its time to upgrade. Yes the high-end system players are the lesser kind of gamers compared to the gaming world of games like WOW who almost everyone with a computer is able to play, there are always games that are system demanding. Seems many people have forgotten OBLIVION when it was released and many had so many problems playing that game and you saw after a few months what kind of succes that game became, with the system i had back then i could play it when it was released and over time because of just driver/patches updates the game ran better and better with the same machine at the time. Besides the post of Brad is actualy posted on the FOH forums.
NVidia/Vista/AMD/Microsoft/Sigil will all develop new soft/hardware/patches/drivers/updates or do you think tech stops right of now? Besides who in his right mind would upgrade his or her computer just because a developer has somehow in some words told the cunsumer i would be better to upgrade your system? Common sence would upgrade mainly when he or she feels its time to upgrade. Yes the high-end system players are the lesser kind of gamers compared to the gaming world of games like WOW who almost everyone with a computer is able to play, there are always games that are system demanding. Seems many people have forgotten OBLIVION when it was released and many had so many problems playing that game and you saw after a few months what kind of succes that game became, with the system i had back then i could play it when it was released and over time because of just driver/patches updates the game ran better and better with the same machine at the time. Besides the post of Brad is actualy posted on the FOH forums.
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
NVidia/Vista/AMD/Microsoft/Sigil will all develop new soft/hardware/patches/drivers/updates or do you think tech stops right of now? Besides who in his right mind would upgrade his or her computer just because a developer has somehow in some words told the cunsumer i would be better to upgrade your system? Common sence would upgrade mainly when he or she feels its time to upgrade. Yes the high-end system players are the lesser kind of gamers compared to the gaming world of games like WOW who almost everyone with a computer is able to play, there are always games that are system demanding. Seems many people have forgotten OBLIVION when it was released and many had so many problems playing that game and you saw after a few months what kind of succes that game became, with the system i had back then i could play it when it was released and over time because of just driver/patches updates the game ran better and better with the same machine at the time. Besides the post of Brad is actualy posted on the FOH forums.
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
I hear ya there
Are you running it on less than an 8800 because the game is designed around the high end cards and below 8800 you have to expect it to run with some lag. Blame the user for that one.
Are you running it on an 8800? Well, everyone knows that the 8800 has issues. Blame Nvidia for that.
Are you using less than 2 gigs of ram because the game finds a sweet spot above that somewhere. Thats why YOU have lag. Your to blame, not us.
Are you running more than 3 Gigs of Ram? Then you must have Vista, Vista don't like games, blame Microsoft.
With one of the largest budgets and longest development times in a MMoG we were "forced" to release it early because that's what everyone wanted, your all to blame.
With that much sarcastically said I do enjoy the game for what it is. I do however think we have to compare it to all the other MMoG's and their history and use that as a measuring stick. Yes, other games required upgrades in hardware in some cases to eliminate/reduce lag, however there was a medium investment for average play (High Performance) with the MX series of cards for about $100 or less and "Elite" cards for $500+ that some users bought. Here were talking "Elite" cards to return 15-30 FPS.
Drivers? Sure, I rolled back in the past from time to time because of driver issues, however that was when an existing game had to deal with drivers put out last week. Here were talking about a game put out a couple of months ago that won't use the drivers from November of 2006?
Someone kindly explain to me where exactly we are in this "cutting edge technology" scheme? Top of the line video cards and 2+ gigs of memory = marginal return on investment?
It's amazing to see people actually writing they've accepted Sigil's half ass, lame apology. Sigil, who to this day continues to take their money in order to let them play this bugged riddled game.
Brad has come out and said he knows the game wasn't finished, know it's full of bugs and whatever else yet continues to have it out there requiring people to pay for this half baked product. How sincere can this apology be when they continue to charge people for it?
I mean think about it for a second. If they were sorry wouldn't they instead of wasting time with mere empty words, wouldn't they think of some sort of recompensation to all those who paid for this game? Free play, items, whatever but at least show you're really sincere about it.
SO what does his apology really mean then? What? They aren;t doing anything different. they're still shoving this same product out to the public so how sincere is this apology? What does it change? What does it do for the people who spent money on it?
This so-called apology is nothing more then plain window dressing and nothing more. It's all a PR move but unfortunately it's working on some folks, shame.
Does anyone in their right mind believe for one second that Sigil, Brad or whatever their name is sincerely , honestly sorry? Like the old adage, "there's one born every second".
Actually the people who are always at fault for any game anywhere at any time is always the publishers who hold the money.
Most amazing MMO's never even make it past their amazing concepts, because they lack the funds. Publishers are too scared to invest in a good idea.
Most MMO's released today are cookie-cutters of EQ or the more recent WoW (which is a clone of EQ, but more casual). Why? Publishers like to invest in cookie-cutter stuff.
A ton of MMO's are released way too early. Why? Publishers do it on purpose. Not even MMO's, some amazing games like Civilization 4 are released too early thanks to greedy businessmen.
Have an innovative idea? Too bad, publishers want the clone of WoW. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Just like the Bible says, The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Two kinds of these evils: Premature Releases and Repetitive and Uncreative Gameplay. Money money moeny. Publishers and greedy businessmen. They ruin games, hold back great games, and harm potentially good games.
I blame the greedy publishers who are controlled by greedy suits.
It's the suits fault for everything everywhere. You're getting fat because of fast food? Greedy suits. You're being poisoned by your medication because they were too cheap to make sure it's safe? Greedy suits. Have a problem with your crappy quality product? Greedy suits.
It's all about money money money and those greedy suits up top who don't care about the quality of the product, but about the money they get. It's cheaper to make a crappy product than it is to make a quality one. You get more profit out of a crappy product too. Stupid money.
Disclaimer: Yes, it isn't completely the greedy suit's faults, it's also some the fault of developers, consumers, and everyone in general, but the main evil core are the suits I tells ya, the suits!!! *gets dragged away by men in white* THE SUITS!
Actually the people who are always at fault for any game anywhere at any time is always the publishers who hold the money. Most amazing MMO's never even make it past their amazing concepts, because they lack the funds. Publishers are too scared to invest in a good idea.
Most MMO's released today are cookie-cutters of EQ or the more recent WoW (which is a clone of EQ, but more casual). Why? Publishers like to invest in cookie-cutter stuff.
A ton of MMO's are released way too early. Why? Publishers do it on purpose. Not even MMO's, some amazing games like Civilization 4 are released too early thanks to greedy businessmen. Have an innovative idea? Too bad, publishers want the clone of WoW. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Just like the Bible says, The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Two kinds of these evils: Premature Releases and Repetitive and Uncreative Gameplay. Money money moeny. Publishers and greedy businessmen. They ruin games, hold back great games, and harm potentially good games. I blame the greedy publishers who are controlled by greedy suits.
It's the suits fault for everything everywhere. You're getting fat because of fast food? Greedy suits. You're being poisoned by your medication because they were too cheap to make sure it's safe? Greedy suits. Have a problem with your crappy quality product? Greedy suits. It's all about money money money and those greedy suits up top who don't care about the quality of the product, but about the money they get. It's cheaper to make a crappy product than it is to make a quality one. You get more profit out of a crappy product too. Stupid money. Disclaimer: Yes, it isn't completely the greedy suit's faults, it's also some the fault of developers, consumers, and everyone in general, but the main evil core are the suits I tells ya, the suits!!! *gets dragged away by men in white* THE SUITS!
Word.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Sololoco, I hear you man. Honestly, I accepted Brad's apology too. It doesn't mean that I will play VG. I don't think I ever will. Such a release is completely unacceptable in 2007, given the hype and everything and the fact that they keep charging for it.
So, why did I accept it? I did it not to do a favor to Brad but to myself, so I would have the freedom to move on. Now, it doesn't mean that I will not post here anymore. I will check every now and then to see if a few Vanbois continue to paint rosy pictures to the public and interfere if necessary.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
NVidia/Vista/AMD/Microsoft/Sigil will all develop new soft/hardware/patches/drivers/updates or do you think tech stops right of now? Besides who in his right mind would upgrade his or her computer just because a developer has somehow in some words told the cunsumer i would be better to upgrade your system? Common sence would upgrade mainly when he or she feels its time to upgrade. Yes the high-end system players are the lesser kind of gamers compared to the gaming world of games like WOW who almost everyone with a computer is able to play, there are always games that are system demanding. Seems many people have forgotten OBLIVION when it was released and many had so many problems playing that game and you saw after a few months what kind of succes that game became, with the system i had back then i could play it when it was released and over time because of just driver/patches updates the game ran better and better with the same machine at the time. Besides the post of Brad is actualy posted on the FOH forums.
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
Next time please read what i say so next time you may respond to the actual post you wanted to quote. You really make absolute no sence why you quoted me as my text did not involve anything you responded to. NEXT TIME READ MY FRIEND ! I also told numorous times that i wished the game would run at all systems , would have made the game a much better succes, i know the game has some problems though i do read more about them then actualy encounter them, especialy when i see Gelenia realm getter more populated lately, must be something good after all with Vanguard, sure they made a stupid start with having so many servers, but imagine the game would run smooth for eveyone it would be a good thing,but indeed that is something do not understand why they actualy at release started of with so many realms as the week before release we all knew that still many people had problems with it, cold be to mask some of the lag isseus we mostly had at release so when people are spread out hte lag would be less noticeble maybe. I agree bad dissision. And there are many more bad dissision Sigil has made , but you know what i'm not in the gaming business i only play games and for i'm blessed to know there are many games out there so never would have to worry if a game did not meet up with my expectation, i can simply move on to another game, sure might be disappointed with some games, have many games i was disappointed with, but never actualy came to their forums and made fool out of people that would like that game.
Next time please read what i say so next time you may respond to the actual post you wanted to quote. You really make absolute no sence why you quoted me as my text did not involve anything you responded to. NEXT TIME READ MY FRIEND ! I also told numorous times that i wished the game would run at all systems , would have made the game a much better succes, i know the game has some problems though i do read more about them then actualy encounter them, especialy when i see Gelenia realm getter more populated lately, must be something good after all with Vanguard, sure they made a stupid start with having so many servers, but imagine the game would run smooth for eveyone it would be a good thing,but indeed that is something do not understand why they actualy at release started of with so many realms as the week before release we all knew that still many people had problems with it, cold be to mask some of the lag isseus we mostly had at release so when people are spread out hte lag would be less noticeble maybe. I agree bad dissision. And there are many more bad dissision Sigil has made , but you know what i'm not in the gaming business i only play games and for i'm blessed to know there are many games out there so never would have to worry if a game did not meet up with my expectation, i can simply move on to another game, sure might be disappointed with some games, have many games i was disappointed with, but never actualy came to their forums and made fool out of people that would like that game.
Good post, Reklaw, thanks I will reply to why I am coming here. Of course, the purpose is not to make a fool of people that would like the game.
I have been using Zonealarm for a long time. It is a trustworthy online software service with regular - even daily - updates. When I upgraded to Vista, I was shocked to realize that Zonealarm doesn't have Vista support. I wrote to them and ranted about it. You know what they did? In 2 days, they offered me 2 options. If I chose to quit their service, they would reimburse my credit. If I chose to wait for their Vista upgrade, they would give me 6 months of free service.
Now, that is called "responsibility" or "accountibility"! That is what every product, software or online service is supposed to have! There is no other service like MMOs where people blatantly hype, lie, fail to deliver and then get away so freely and irresponsibly! No other service!
And please, spare me the "Oh, but you don't know how MMOs are developed, they are never finished!" makebelieve or "But, but... I am having fun" naivete!
So, how can game companies or developers be so irresponsible and get away with it? The number one reason is that there is always a small fanbase who blindly and fervently support the game no matter how crippled it is. Could it be that?
I don't know, but "release anything to milk the cashcows" attitude must die! It must! And unless some people stand up against it and speak about it, it will not!
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Next time please read what i say so next time you may respond to the actual post you wanted to quote. You really make absolute no sence why you quoted me as my text did not involve anything you responded to. NEXT TIME READ MY FRIEND ! I also told numorous times that i wished the game would run at all systems , would have made the game a much better succes, i know the game has some problems though i do read more about them then actualy encounter them, especialy when i see Gelenia realm getter more populated lately, must be something good after all with Vanguard, sure they made a stupid start with having so many servers, but imagine the game would run smooth for eveyone it would be a good thing,but indeed that is something do not understand why they actualy at release started of with so many realms as the week before release we all knew that still many people had problems with it, cold be to mask some of the lag isseus we mostly had at release so when people are spread out hte lag would be less noticeble maybe. I agree bad dissision. And there are many more bad dissision Sigil has made , but you know what i'm not in the gaming business i only play games and for i'm blessed to know there are many games out there so never would have to worry if a game did not meet up with my expectation, i can simply move on to another game, sure might be disappointed with some games, have many games i was disappointed with, but never actualy came to their forums and made fool out of people that would like that game.
Good post, Reklaw, thanks I will reply to why I am coming here. Of course, the purpose is not to make a fool of people that would like the game.
I have been using Zonealarm for a long time. It is a trustworthy online software service with regular - even daily - updates. When I upgraded to Vista, I was shocked to realize that Zonealarm doesn't have Vista support. I wrote to them and ranted about it. You know what they did? In 2 days, they offered me 2 options. If I chose to quit their service, they would reimburse my credit. If I chose to wait for their Vista upgrade, they would give me 6 months of free service.
Now, that is called "responsibility" or "accountibility"! That is what every product, software or online service is supposed to have! There is no other service like MMOs where people blatantly hype, lie, fail to deliver and then get away so freely and irresponsibly! No other service!
And please, spare me the "Oh, but you don't know how MMOs are developed, they are never finished!" makebelieve or "But, but... I am having fun" naivete!
So, how can game companies or developers be so irresponsible and get away with it? The number one reason is that there is always a small fanbase who blindly and fervently support the game no matter how crippled it is. Could it be that?
I don't know, but "release anything to milk the cashcows" attitude must die! It must! And unless some people stand up against it and speak about it, it will not!
Amen brother. Preach it.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
Perhaps if they allowed current subscribers to play free for the next 3 months while the get things how they wanted them.... Was it Dark and Light that just did something similar? (but supposedly from different reasons).
Back to beta Brad.
Agreed. You admit your mistake. We paid the price for your mistake. If you really feel bad, make it up to us. If you're sorry and "understand" how we feel, show us. I'm sure offering 200k subscribers 3 free months to make up for the 3 months more you needed before release would pay off at least 10-fold in no time. It might hurt the pockets of SOE for a very short term, but they're big boys with BIG pockets.
Those 3 free months of play time would end up being a HUGE bit of advertising and would undoubtedly increase your subscriber pool.
-The people that had been thinking about dropping Vanguard (whether for now, like myself,
or forever) might very well stay on board.
- People hearing about the efforts you've made to keep the peace, maintain good relations,
appreciate your subscribers... would of course be spreading the GOOD word about Sigil
and their connection with their community.
-Word would spread like wildfire through the net that an MMO company actually heard it's
subscribers, listened to them and cared about them as more than just a source of income.
(Not to say you personally don't, but the effort of this offering would allow the rest of us to
see it too)
A statement in a forum somewhere (which I'm surprised I heard about, why wasn't this also emailed to current/recent subscribers?) was nice I guess. Something to show the people you NEED to make happy is better.
LOL I just thought up another example... Yer married, you upset yer wife, you apologize. She grudgingly accepts. You screw up again, you apologize, same results... go on, keep screwing up. Where you gonna be then?
On the other hand, apologize and buy her some flowers. Apologize and take her out to dinner. Apologize and send her to a day spa! THESE are the things remembered. These are the things that mean something. THESE are the things that SHOW sorrow. (let's leave out the remarks about materialistic people and buying people off to keep them quiet and all that crap ok?)
Yea Furor's a moron and WoW is going to crap since BC. They even stoped bringing out new servers.
Uh...what? Right before TBC went live, they opened up several new servers for people to transfer on to. I know this for a fact because my entire Alliance guild, which had been on Moonrunner, moved over to Arathor, which is a brand new realm that just started with the expansion.
I think I can comfortably say, along with so many of the other "haters" from back in the day:
I told you so
I don't accept the apology, and in all honesty, I'm not even remotely surprised the game is doing terrible. Anyone with any sort of quality standards should have been appalled when they stepped into the world of Telon. Yet, far too often in this industry, and even in the world, people like to hope things will just come together and work out.
If consumers and players learn nothing else from games like DnL and VG, look at games for what they are, NOT what the developers promise them to be.
Also, no thanks, Brad. Your apology would be acceptable, had you never developed an MMO before. However, given the previous experience with the genre, saying "we didn't expect this, or know this could happen" sounds far too much like amateur excuses.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
If Brad, or the backers of the game (i.e SOE, Sigil) are truely sorry then REFUND my money. Great he phucked up so now what? What does his apology do for me and many others who bought into the hype? Absolutely nothing, because as the end of the day they still have my $50, and that piece of crap game sits on my book shelf collecting dust. I read that the Vanguard of 2007 won't be the Vanguard of 2009...no $h!t! SO I guess I'll have to wait another two years to fully realize his vison of the 'next generation of MMOs". In all honesty I'm glad this happended. Finally game developers realize that you can't continue you to put out unfinished product and think that we as consumers will just eat it no matter how bad it is. You will always have your rabid fans and those that jump from game to game, but those people don't make or break a game, WE do. The average gamer, who wants to spend his time and money logging on and playing his game of choice. For everyone that raised hell, and cancelled their account, I salute you!! Stand proud that YOU made a difference with the voice that mattered the most to this company, the almighty dollar (or euro, yen, etc...).
Now, I can't test Vanguard since there's no bloody way to try it without buying it (And I won't) So, personally, fine, it's okay to mess up, the interesting thing now is if they can shape up and get their stuff right, or if we'll see yet another excuse soon enough. If there is one, I won't be around if it's just generic..
Oh well, I hope I get to try out the game Brad intended to make and not what he was forced to. And, I hope I get to try it at all soon enough............
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
What he doesnt tell you is how much of that 30 million of investors money he paid himself as salary, and how he bought a hummer and a new 2 million dollar home off unrealized profits from a game still in development.
I don't even feel sorry for those of you who threw away $50 , those of us who knew warned you all, and you gave us hell for it.
BTW Vanguard just dropped went into the bargain bin at a price of $39.99, sure sign the game is in trouble.
What he doesnt tell you is how much of that 30 million of investors money he paid himself as salary, and how he bought a hummer and a new 2 million dollar home off unrealized profits from a game still in development.
Originally posted by Sorrow I have no sympathy. What he doesnt tell you is how much of that 30 million of investors money he paid himself as salary, and how he bought a hummer and a new 2 million dollar home off unrealized profits from a game still in development. I don't even feel sorry for those of you who threw away $50 , those of us who knew warned you all, and you gave us hell for it. BTW Vanguard just dropped went into the bargain bin at a price of $39.99, sure sign the game is in trouble.
36.99 on Amazon.com.
And you know that 100$ collector's edition? 44$ now.
And the reviews on Amazon gave me a nice laugh too
"Barely Second Generation"
"Playing this game feels like work"
and my personal favorite,
"Its like someone peed in your favorite icecream".
XD
Gaming? That's not gaming! That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
What he doesnt tell you is how much of that 30 million of investors money he paid himself as salary, and how he bought a hummer and a new 2 million dollar home off unrealized profits from a game still in development.
I don't even feel sorry for those of you who threw away $50 , those of us who knew warned you all, and you gave us hell for it.
BTW Vanguard just dropped went into the bargain bin at a price of $39.99, sure sign the game is in trouble.
36.99 on Amazon.com.
And you know that 100$ collector's edition?
44$ now.
And the reviews on Amazon gave me a nice laugh too
"Barely Second Generation"
"Playing this game feels like work"
and my personal favorite,
"Its like someone peed in your favorite icecream".
XD
Yeesh...already disappointed that prices have dropped so much already, but I'm really glad I didn't blow any money on the collector's edition now. It's cheaper than the digital download.
Comments
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
Ye. Ok I'm tired. But thats true.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I then pointed out a hypocritical behavior in a certain type of VG follower (rabid fans), in which they discredit people criticizing VG, for not having played it; but when they (VG fans) bring up other games like WoW, they prove they themselves know nothing about it.
Ye. Ok I'm tired. But thats true. Good to hear that, and enjoy your sleep then
NO!!!!
This rubbish about "tech getting better and faster" and people will buy better computers is Brads lame excuse and frankly it's sickening to see him constantly say this.. People have already spent a lot of money upgrading and still the performance sucks big time. Besides, why should anyone buy anything to play a game like this?
How many haven't already spent money and have upgraded past the specs required only to find it never made a difference as the game still has terrible performance? A whole lot of folks including myself have so we know this bs of getting better tech is garbage.
His excuse like his game is totally lame. I'm glad more and more players are turning away from this game. I'm just sorry I defended this game from the start.
After reading several responses here I'd like to add, yes, he apologized but in reality it means squat as they're still taking people's money for them to play a game they (devs) know to be unfinished, bugged to the hilt and totally lame.
A sincere apology would be, we're closing til it's done and all players will recieve compensation in a form of free play for X amount of months, not continually taking peoples money while issuing some half-ass apologiy.
So his apology isn't worth anything, not the time nor effort it took to write it. It's like selling drugs you know kill people and you apologize for it but yet, you continue to sell them. Does it make sense? His apology is all sugar coating and nothing else, unfortunately it's so very transparent and anyone smart enough will see thru' it in a heartbeat.
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
I hear ya thereAre you running it on less than an 8800 because the game is designed around the high end cards and below 8800 you have to expect it to run with some lag. Blame the user for that one.
Are you running it on an 8800? Well, everyone knows that the 8800 has issues. Blame Nvidia for that.
Are you using less than 2 gigs of ram because the game finds a sweet spot above that somewhere. Thats why YOU have lag. Your to blame, not us.
Are you running more than 3 Gigs of Ram? Then you must have Vista, Vista don't like games, blame Microsoft.
With one of the largest budgets and longest development times in a MMoG we were "forced" to release it early because that's what everyone wanted, your all to blame.
With that much sarcastically said I do enjoy the game for what it is. I do however think we have to compare it to all the other MMoG's and their history and use that as a measuring stick. Yes, other games required upgrades in hardware in some cases to eliminate/reduce lag, however there was a medium investment for average play (High Performance) with the MX series of cards for about $100 or less and "Elite" cards for $500+ that some users bought. Here were talking "Elite" cards to return 15-30 FPS.
Drivers? Sure, I rolled back in the past from time to time because of driver issues, however that was when an existing game had to deal with drivers put out last week. Here were talking about a game put out a couple of months ago that won't use the drivers from November of 2006?
Someone kindly explain to me where exactly we are in this "cutting edge technology" scheme? Top of the line video cards and 2+ gigs of memory = marginal return on investment?
It's amazing to see people actually writing they've accepted Sigil's half ass, lame apology. Sigil, who to this day continues to take their money in order to let them play this bugged riddled game.
Brad has come out and said he knows the game wasn't finished, know it's full of bugs and whatever else yet continues to have it out there requiring people to pay for this half baked product. How sincere can this apology be when they continue to charge people for it?
I mean think about it for a second. If they were sorry wouldn't they instead of wasting time with mere empty words, wouldn't they think of some sort of recompensation to all those who paid for this game? Free play, items, whatever but at least show you're really sincere about it.
SO what does his apology really mean then? What? They aren;t doing anything different. they're still shoving this same product out to the public so how sincere is this apology? What does it change? What does it do for the people who spent money on it?
This so-called apology is nothing more then plain window dressing and nothing more. It's all a PR move but unfortunately it's working on some folks, shame.
Does anyone in their right mind believe for one second that Sigil, Brad or whatever their name is sincerely , honestly sorry? Like the old adage, "there's one born every second".
Actually the people who are always at fault for any game anywhere at any time is always the publishers who hold the money.
Most amazing MMO's never even make it past their amazing concepts, because they lack the funds. Publishers are too scared to invest in a good idea.
Most MMO's released today are cookie-cutters of EQ or the more recent WoW (which is a clone of EQ, but more casual). Why? Publishers like to invest in cookie-cutter stuff.
A ton of MMO's are released way too early. Why? Publishers do it on purpose. Not even MMO's, some amazing games like Civilization 4 are released too early thanks to greedy businessmen.
Have an innovative idea? Too bad, publishers want the clone of WoW. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Just like the Bible says, The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Two kinds of these evils: Premature Releases and Repetitive and Uncreative Gameplay. Money money moeny. Publishers and greedy businessmen. They ruin games, hold back great games, and harm potentially good games.
I blame the greedy publishers who are controlled by greedy suits.
It's the suits fault for everything everywhere. You're getting fat because of fast food? Greedy suits. You're being poisoned by your medication because they were too cheap to make sure it's safe? Greedy suits. Have a problem with your crappy quality product? Greedy suits.
It's all about money money money and those greedy suits up top who don't care about the quality of the product, but about the money they get. It's cheaper to make a crappy product than it is to make a quality one. You get more profit out of a crappy product too. Stupid money.
Disclaimer: Yes, it isn't completely the greedy suit's faults, it's also some the fault of developers, consumers, and everyone in general, but the main evil core are the suits I tells ya, the suits!!! *gets dragged away by men in white* THE SUITS!
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
So, why did I accept it? I did it not to do a favor to Brad but to myself, so I would have the freedom to move on. Now, it doesn't mean that I will not post here anymore. I will check every now and then to see if a few Vanbois continue to paint rosy pictures to the public and interfere if necessary.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Are you trying to understand at all what people are saying? People have upgraded their systems and the game still runs like a dog. The game ran like a dog on 6800. The game ran like a dog on my Radeon X800. The game ran like a dog on my 7800 GTX. Now I am hearing that the game is still running like a dog on 8800 GTX.
So, when will this game start running decently without hiccups, stuttering, crashes, etc.? On 9800 GTX? 10800 GTX? Just when?!?
Next time please read what i say so next time you may respond to the actual post you wanted to quote. You really make absolute no sence why you quoted me as my text did not involve anything you responded to. NEXT TIME READ MY FRIEND ! I also told numorous times that i wished the game would run at all systems , would have made the game a much better succes, i know the game has some problems though i do read more about them then actualy encounter them, especialy when i see Gelenia realm getter more populated lately, must be something good after all with Vanguard, sure they made a stupid start with having so many servers, but imagine the game would run smooth for eveyone it would be a good thing,but indeed that is something do not understand why they actualy at release started of with so many realms as the week before release we all knew that still many people had problems with it, cold be to mask some of the lag isseus we mostly had at release so when people are spread out hte lag would be less noticeble maybe. I agree bad dissision. And there are many more bad dissision Sigil has made , but you know what i'm not in the gaming business i only play games and for i'm blessed to know there are many games out there so never would have to worry if a game did not meet up with my expectation, i can simply move on to another game, sure might be disappointed with some games, have many games i was disappointed with, but never actualy came to their forums and made fool out of people that would like that game.
I have been using Zonealarm for a long time. It is a trustworthy online software service with regular - even daily - updates. When I upgraded to Vista, I was shocked to realize that Zonealarm doesn't have Vista support. I wrote to them and ranted about it. You know what they did? In 2 days, they offered me 2 options. If I chose to quit their service, they would reimburse my credit. If I chose to wait for their Vista upgrade, they would give me 6 months of free service.
Now, that is called "responsibility" or "accountibility"! That is what every product, software or online service is supposed to have! There is no other service like MMOs where people blatantly hype, lie, fail to deliver and then get away so freely and irresponsibly! No other service!
And please, spare me the "Oh, but you don't know how MMOs are developed, they are never finished!" makebelieve or "But, but... I am having fun" naivete!
So, how can game companies or developers be so irresponsible and get away with it? The number one reason is that there is always a small fanbase who blindly and fervently support the game no matter how crippled it is. Could it be that?
I don't know, but "release anything to milk the cashcows" attitude must die! It must! And unless some people stand up against it and speak about it, it will not!
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
I have been using Zonealarm for a long time. It is a trustworthy online software service with regular - even daily - updates. When I upgraded to Vista, I was shocked to realize that Zonealarm doesn't have Vista support. I wrote to them and ranted about it. You know what they did? In 2 days, they offered me 2 options. If I chose to quit their service, they would reimburse my credit. If I chose to wait for their Vista upgrade, they would give me 6 months of free service.
Now, that is called "responsibility" or "accountibility"! That is what every product, software or online service is supposed to have! There is no other service like MMOs where people blatantly hype, lie, fail to deliver and then get away so freely and irresponsibly! No other service!
And please, spare me the "Oh, but you don't know how MMOs are developed, they are never finished!" makebelieve or "But, but... I am having fun" naivete!
So, how can game companies or developers be so irresponsible and get away with it? The number one reason is that there is always a small fanbase who blindly and fervently support the game no matter how crippled it is. Could it be that?
I don't know, but "release anything to milk the cashcows" attitude must die! It must! And unless some people stand up against it and speak about it, it will not!
Amen brother. Preach it.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
Agreed. You admit your mistake. We paid the price for your mistake. If you really feel bad, make it up to us. If you're sorry and "understand" how we feel, show us. I'm sure offering 200k subscribers 3 free months to make up for the 3 months more you needed before release would pay off at least 10-fold in no time. It might hurt the pockets of SOE for a very short term, but they're big boys with BIG pockets.
Those 3 free months of play time would end up being a HUGE bit of advertising and would undoubtedly increase your subscriber pool.
-The people that had been thinking about dropping Vanguard (whether for now, like myself,
or forever) might very well stay on board.
- People hearing about the efforts you've made to keep the peace, maintain good relations,
appreciate your subscribers... would of course be spreading the GOOD word about Sigil
and their connection with their community.
-Word would spread like wildfire through the net that an MMO company actually heard it's
subscribers, listened to them and cared about them as more than just a source of income.
(Not to say you personally don't, but the effort of this offering would allow the rest of us to
see it too)
A statement in a forum somewhere (which I'm surprised I heard about, why wasn't this also emailed to current/recent subscribers?) was nice I guess. Something to show the people you NEED to make happy is better.
LOL I just thought up another example... Yer married, you upset yer wife, you apologize. She grudgingly accepts. You screw up again, you apologize, same results... go on, keep screwing up. Where you gonna be then?
On the other hand, apologize and buy her some flowers. Apologize and take her out to dinner. Apologize and send her to a day spa! THESE are the things remembered. These are the things that mean something. THESE are the things that SHOW sorrow. (let's leave out the remarks about materialistic people and buying people off to keep them quiet and all that crap ok?)
-Naaz.
I told you so
I don't accept the apology, and in all honesty, I'm not even remotely surprised the game is doing terrible. Anyone with any sort of quality standards should have been appalled when they stepped into the world of Telon. Yet, far too often in this industry, and even in the world, people like to hope things will just come together and work out.
If consumers and players learn nothing else from games like DnL and VG, look at games for what they are, NOT what the developers promise them to be.
Also, no thanks, Brad. Your apology would be acceptable, had you never developed an MMO before. However, given the previous experience with the genre, saying "we didn't expect this, or know this could happen" sounds far too much like amateur excuses.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
If Brad, or the backers of the game (i.e SOE, Sigil) are truely sorry then REFUND my money. Great he phucked up so now what? What does his apology do for me and many others who bought into the hype? Absolutely nothing, because as the end of the day they still have my $50, and that piece of crap game sits on my book shelf collecting dust. I read that the Vanguard of 2007 won't be the Vanguard of 2009...no $h!t! SO I guess I'll have to wait another two years to fully realize his vison of the 'next generation of MMOs". In all honesty I'm glad this happended. Finally game developers realize that you can't continue you to put out unfinished product and think that we as consumers will just eat it no matter how bad it is. You will always have your rabid fans and those that jump from game to game, but those people don't make or break a game, WE do. The average gamer, who wants to spend his time and money logging on and playing his game of choice. For everyone that raised hell, and cancelled their account, I salute you!! Stand proud that YOU made a difference with the voice that mattered the most to this company, the almighty dollar (or euro, yen, etc...).
I'll accept an apology.
Once.
Now, I can't test Vanguard since there's no bloody way to try it without buying it (And I won't)
So, personally, fine, it's okay to mess up, the interesting thing now is if they can shape up and get their stuff right, or if we'll see yet another excuse soon enough.
If there is one, I won't be around if it's just generic..
Oh well, I hope I get to try out the game Brad intended to make and not what he was forced to.
And, I hope I get to try it at all soon enough............
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
I have no sympathy.
What he doesnt tell you is how much of that 30 million of investors money he paid himself as salary, and how he bought a hummer and a new 2 million dollar home off unrealized profits from a game still in development.
I don't even feel sorry for those of you who threw away $50 , those of us who knew warned you all, and you gave us hell for it.
BTW Vanguard just dropped went into the bargain bin at a price of $39.99, sure sign the game is in trouble.
What? US the land of jealousy not oppertunities?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
36.99 on Amazon.com.
And you know that 100$ collector's edition?
44$ now.
And the reviews on Amazon gave me a nice laugh too
"Barely Second Generation"
"Playing this game feels like work"
and my personal favorite,
"Its like someone peed in your favorite icecream".
XD
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
36.99 on Amazon.com.
And you know that 100$ collector's edition?
44$ now.
And the reviews on Amazon gave me a nice laugh too
"Barely Second Generation"
"Playing this game feels like work"
and my personal favorite,
"Its like someone peed in your favorite icecream".
XD
Yeesh...already disappointed that prices have dropped so much already, but I'm really glad I didn't blow any money on the collector's edition now. It's cheaper than the digital download.