This is why they developers are continuing the story. Be patient. Most MMORPGs are in bad shape at release. This is quite smooth in contrast.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Look, what it comes down to is this: if you are the type to hit the cap in three weeks real time, and then get so upsest that there is no raiding endgame that you will feel compelled to whine about it on a public forum, this game is quite simply not for you. A lot of the folks that hang out on this site are 24/7 power gamers that like a deep raiding end game that takes tons of spare time in large continuous blocks to access. You guys will hate this game, it wasn't designed for you. See EQ or FFXI.
We all have definite definitions of rushing, but if you've capped even one toon in three weeks (much less one or two), your were definitly "rushing" by my standards. Most of the folks I play with are between 25 and 35, and we've all been playing since at least launch. More is being added (including a 25 person raid) in just a few weeks. But if you played enough to cap out, cap your crafting skills, and get all your titles in three freaking weeks (!?!), then obviously Turbine is not going to add content fast enough for you. You'd only chew through the new content in a week or two and be left twiddling your thumbs. If you want a time sink, go play EQ or FFXI. Alternately, If you want a game that doesn't suck, but has been around long enough to have a fully fleshed out end game, try EQ II or DAoC. Really, you'll like any of those better than LoTRO.
One thing that many may not be aware of...
During most of the beta the designers were dead set on not having any raids. None, none at all. They wanted it to be the MMO for non-raiders. They have announced plans to add one 25 man raid, and some players are actually upset about it (I could care less one way or another, personally). I think more than anything, this illustrates the disconnect between the basic design of the game, what the average LoTRO plarer wants from it, and what the OP (and many others posting in this thread, apparently) want from an MMO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Look, what it comes down to is this: if you are the type to hit the cap in three weeks real time, and then get so upsest that there is no raiding endgame that you will feel compelled to whine about it on a public forum, this game is quite simply not for you. A lot of the folks that hang out on this site are 24/7 power gamers that like a deep raiding end game that takes tons of spare time in large continuous blocks to access. You guys will hate this game, it wasn't designed for you. See EQ or FFXI.
We all have definite definitions of rushing, but if you've capped even one toon in three weeks (much less one or two), your were definitly "rushing" by my standards. Most of the folks I play with are between 25 and 35, and we've all been playing since at least launch. More is being added (including a 25 person raid) in just a few weeks. But if you played enough to cap out, cap your crafting skills, and get all your titles in three freaking weeks (!?!), then obviously Turbine is not going to add content fast enough for you. You'd only chew through the new content in a week or two and be left twiddling your thumbs. If you want a time sink, go play EQ or FFXI. Alternately, If you want a game that doesn't suck, but has been around long enough to have a fully fleshed out end game, try EQ II or DAoC. Really, you'll like any of those better than LoTRO.
One thing that many may not be aware of...
During most of the beta the designers were dead set on not having any raids. None, none at all. They wanted it to be the MMO for non-raiders. They have announced plans to add one 25 man raid, and some players are actually upset about it (I could care less one way or another, personally). I think more than anything, this illustrates the disconnect between the basic design of the game, what the average LoTRO plarer wants from it, and what the OP (and many others posting in this thread, apparently) want from an MMO.
Yea.. i was in beta for this game since August but, I never played past 15.. I didn't want to ruin the experience. There is a lot more that could be done here aside from raiding. 6 man instances are a great way to ditch raiding, but theres hardly any. I guess true casuals will have fun spending a month going thru an instance that took us 7 hours? Unlikely.
If they are that casual then they will get frusterated with the instance and it's length... for first timers it takes like an hour just to kill your way to the instance door.
So you have 2 sides here, the total casuals and the people who play more..if they are going to put these hard 6 man instances, why not cater to the people that want it and put out tons of it.. so people who want to go there can, and the super casuals can do their thing in their own time.
Currently waiting for - Perfect World English, Age of Conan
Look, what it comes down to is this: if you are the type to hit the cap in three weeks real time, and then get so upsest that there is no raiding endgame that you will feel compelled to whine about it on a public forum, this game is quite simply not for you. A lot of the folks that hang out on this site are 24/7 power gamers that like a deep raiding end game that takes tons of spare time in large continuous blocks to access. You guys will hate this game, it wasn't designed for you. See EQ or FFXI.
We all have definite definitions of rushing, but if you've capped even one toon in three weeks (much less one or two), your were definitly "rushing" by my standards. Most of the folks I play with are between 25 and 35, and we've all been playing since at least launch. More is being added (including a 25 person raid) in just a few weeks. But if you played enough to cap out, cap your crafting skills, and get all your titles in three freaking weeks (!?!), then obviously Turbine is not going to add content fast enough for you. You'd only chew through the new content in a week or two and be left twiddling your thumbs. If you want a time sink, go play EQ or FFXI. Alternately, If you want a game that doesn't suck, but has been around long enough to have a fully fleshed out end game, try EQ II or DAoC. Really, you'll like any of those better than LoTRO.
One thing that many may not be aware of...
During most of the beta the designers were dead set on not having any raids. None, none at all. They wanted it to be the MMO for non-raiders. They have announced plans to add one 25 man raid, and some players are actually upset about it (I could care less one way or another, personally). I think more than anything, this illustrates the disconnect between the basic design of the game, what the average LoTRO plarer wants from it, and what the OP (and many others posting in this thread, apparently) want from an MMO.
Yea.. i was in beta for this game since August but, I never played past 15.. I didn't want to ruin the experience. There is a lot more that could be done here aside from raiding. 6 man instances are a great way to ditch raiding, but theres hardly any. I guess true casuals will have fun spending a month going thru an instance that took us 7 hours? Unlikely.
If they are that casual then they will get frusterated with the instance and it's length... for first timers it takes like an hour just to kill your way to the instance door.
So you have 2 sides here, the total casuals and the people who play more..if they are going to put these hard 6 man instances, why not cater to the people that want it and put out tons of it.. so people who want to go there can, and the super casuals can do their thing in their own time.
They are adding more new six mans in the June patch (unclear how many from patch notes, looks like at least two or three). I think that will be in plenty of time for most players. They are also adding class armor sets. The first set will be available at level 30, there will be new sets to work on as you level up, and they will not require raiding to obtain. And of course there is still PvMP, which is just now getting going on most servers (too few freeps). So I think casuals (even folks who are 35 or so right now) will have plenty to do.
The "casuals" that at least get to play for large stretches on the weekends will have several six mans to fart around in, the middle of the road casuals can work on getting armor sets, and the "super casuals" can do what they are doing now. The "casual raiders" (is there such a thing?) will get one raid, and "hardcore raiders" will still have almost nothing to do. Overall, I think Turbine is actually doing a good job covering their target market.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I am not trying to put this as a reflection on other's play styles.. just seems very very short even compared to some one player games out there.. considering this game was under development for 5 years, not a couple months like some single player games.
Maybe I expect way too much! I don't know, it just seems other games had a LOT more content at release.
Like what? WoW had equal if not less content on release. Dark Age of Camelot had less content on release. Heck I can't think of a single game on the list of games I have played (all 25+ of them) that had more content then LOTRO has 1 month after release.
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I am not trying to put this as a reflection on other's play styles.. just seems very very short even compared to some one player games out there.. considering this game was under development for 5 years, not a couple months like some single player games.
Maybe I expect way too much! I don't know, it just seems other games had a LOT more content at release.
Like what? WoW had equal if not less content on release. Dark Age of Camelot had less content on release. Heck I can't think of a single game on the list of games I have played (all 25+ of them) that had more content then LOTRO has 1 month after release.
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
you do know that in actuality the amount of shere content for -one- character in wow was far lower then that right? plenty of duplicate quests except for various sides, as well as 6 different starting zones with 6 more connected zones. compared to lotro's one starting area, and one path up, it is actually much more similar then you make it out to be. Also alot of lotro's quests have continue marks for 1 quest, whereas wow quests become new quests whenever you talk to any npc. For example theres about 3-4 "quests" in each starting area that involve you flying on the gryphon talking to a npc and flying back.
Now i know there are alot of seperate steps similar to what wow had in quest chains, but theres far more "continue on" for the same quest.
and there were LARGE gaps in WoW where there simply was no real content especially in the 35-55 range. Unless you instance -alot- theres alot of tedium in questing, due to the fact that quest "nodes" have only 3-5 quests and thats it for that -entire zone- and that's how it STILL IS TODAY.
Now i'm not excusing lotro here, but wows "Content" is far slimmer then you make it seem.
*edit*
let alone that wow had no bgs. WoW had no "deeds", and wow didn't have a honor system upon release which lotro were all released with.
also to note that pvp=/=the only end game. I'm sorry but monster play is MORE of a endgame then darkfall or shadowbane or any of those pvp games ever will have, because it's more of a game then rather gank these people all nights long lolzrozrz.
I am not trying to put this as a reflection on other's play styles.. just seems very very short even compared to some one player games out there.. considering this game was under development for 5 years, not a couple months like some single player games.
Maybe I expect way too much! I don't know, it just seems other games had a LOT more content at release.
Like what? WoW had equal if not less content on release. Dark Age of Camelot had less content on release. Heck I can't think of a single game on the list of games I have played (all 25+ of them) that had more content then LOTRO has 1 month after release.
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
Where did you find that information? The numbers I got were from an interview. I will try and look up the interview, but your number of 3500 quests at release sounds way way over exaggerated.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I believe the guy. I think I could do 1 - 50 in about 100 - 150 hours played under the right circumstances. The hardest part would be from 45 - 50. As it stands now I have a mid 30's character and one in his low 20's and a couple more in their teens and I really think I am not hurrying at all. The thing is I am taking my time and enjoying the ride.
I doubt the OP has seen every place nor has he done every quest. For me MMORPGs are all about the social aspect, as I have stated on here many many times - none of these games are challenging, they are all just time sinks and leveling grinds. The only difference between them is the amount of polish and the steepness of the grind. I enjoy LoTRO, but for me it is all about the journey, not the destination.
The thing is MMO are not suppost to END , they should be a continuing experience... becuase LotRO is not in 2-4 month from now its p-base is gonna take a dive as people realize there is NO end game content.
Ironically every MMO does end. You get to the max level, you get the best equipment, and thats it. Its the mmo's job to make the journey there as enjoyable as possible. If you want a game that you wont be maxed out in less than 2 years; get FFXI.
Lotr is more or less a guild wars clone except based in middle earth of course. Great if youre a Lotr fan otherwise you might just as well buy Guild wars.
Since this has turned into a WoW vs LOTRO thread, I'll throw my 2 coppers in.
I played WoW at release, and I surely don't remember 88 zones. If you count each named area, then maybe you are right.
3500 quests? If you divide that in half for horde/alliance that comes out to 1750. I did just about every quest multiple times on both horde and alliance (excluding class quests), and I know that is way too high.
WoW had a larger land mass than LOTRO when they both were released.
As far as raids, I think it's a tie.
LOTRO has a battleground , WoW didn't.
LOTRO has an honor system, WoW didn't.
WoW had more places you can't get to, but could see.
As far as things to do, LOTRO has more things to do. You can spend hours playing an instrument.
Can you get bored in LOTRO? Yes.
Do you level faster than in WoW? Yes. Although I've seen people hit 60 pretty fast after TBC was released. I saw level 70 BE Paladins within 2 months of release of TBC.
The game is lame, I purchased at released and do not regret unistalling it at all. Its very simple and EVERYONE IS THE SAME!!! thats my biggest gripe with it all.
Do yourself a favor and dont listen to the hype, lame mmo.
Nada wrong with o/p expressing themselves , i also agree as more folks reach that point they will be dissapointed. However there were many reviews stating what after 30 was like where it was group heavy that more content was coming in June and it is very typical for new mmorpgs to be popular the first month then after the honeymoon period folks drop off. How many new guilds start then die within first few months? Best way to do a guild in a new mmorpg is to come with pals from cross gaming guilds.
We saw many posts in beta about folks being conserned of re play value. That was a big point because other games offer different questing areas through out leveling process and different areas to explore. Else where it was a hoot to start a new toon and see different quests as well as different abilities .
While i was also a strong supporter of this offering I also took a break at level 18 haven't logged back in . Got frustrated with paying repairs, feeling as if every time i played i lost gold instead of progressed. Thought the travel costs were to darn high verses the stupid chain quests that if lucky got 1 silver. Gesh after that frustration i didn't mind taking a break. I also couldn't get past the questing experaince verses some grinding experiance. There should have a been just a small bump to normal experaince . Especialy if no groups to be found or other folks camping quest mobs and have no consern or wish to help you even if you ask nicely.
What we are seeing here is that folks not necesialry ready to do an alt again especialy if it is just the same quests.
I do hope you had some fun along the way, but it is really no surprise end game not much different , and or same ole same ole.
I do agree with the poster that added the comment about single player games that only last about 30 hours. That is why we choose to play mmorpgs we hope the content lasts longer.
Where did you find that information? The numbers I got were from an interview. I will try and look up the interview, but your number of 3500 quests at release sounds way way over exaggerated.
You can find it at any game hint site, like Allakhazam's. However, Bladin is right, I didn't even think about the dual function of the quests for the different sides. Taking that into account, WoW's quest count would only be slightly over LotRO's quest count, and the zone count was pretty similar although WoW's zones were a bit larger.
I do know that Turbine was shooting to release 50 million square meters, but fell short because of time and will release the other areas later. If they had finished all the areas, it certainly would have been larger than WoW, and as big as EQ2 at release. Too bad EQ2 wasn't as polished at release, it really is a great game.
I think LotRO is a great game too, but it certainly is not for power gamers. It is very easy to bust through content pretty fast. What they have is pretty well done, though quite easy in most parts. Most power gamers should probably play it as a second game, and not their primary game. It is very good for casual gamers that just want to sit down and goof off for a little bit.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I personally consider myself a rather hardcore gamer as I have been putting in roughly 60 - 80 hours a week myself. After I read the HOC chat from stratics though I knew that they werent going to keep up with the people playing 12 hours a day. If you need a game you can commit that much to then your probably not going to be happy with LOTRO.
ATM there is plenty to do however. Deeds, Crafting, Instances, Quests, and PVMP. Unlike some guilds on my server who raced to 50 with a few people, I did my best to get the majority of my guild along the same level/quest line. Now there are about 12 - 15 of us 40+ and we are gearing up for the new expansion.
Does the game have as much content as wow does now? Nope. Did wow have as much content at day one? Um...no, thats what patches are for. Turbine is about to release their expansion thats going to bring in a 24 man raid zone, epic armor sets, and a ton of other stuff. There are also 3 more expansions in the works. Turbine did a very similar thing with Asherons Call 1. Monthly updates with massive new areas about every 6 - 12 months. With LOTRO I think we will see new land areas on a much faster basis than other games, and best of all the add ons are free.
As others have said, if you maxed out at 50, even though it was rather well know and well publicized for those of us who checked the forums, dev updates, etc that there was no end game yet, you have nothing but yourself to blame. Turbine has been extremely vocal about whats in the game and whats not and what will be soon.
Your just a few weeks ahead of schedule. Suck it up and deal with it, or cancel and move along. For the vast majority of players (those with 4 hours a day or less) LOTRO has more than enough content to keep you busy.
Jeff Anderson made some interesting comments on end games the other day during a interview
Jeff Anderson: Oh, it's too late, they already are. What we build is episodic content, right? We're building a pipeline, a network of programming that we provide to consumers. Anybody who's playing any of the other competitive games who aren't getting that, they should be asking why. Why are these companies just pocketing all the money and not investing in the franchise? Why are they not adding to the world that they've created? And likewise, if you don't feel your publisher is supporting you, what are you hanging out for? I think those are the things that really are becoming differentiators in the space. One of the reasons we're seeing people leaving other games like World of Warcraft is because they just don't understand what they're getting every month. They're bored with the product. And boredom means that there's nothing more for you to do.
One of my favorite questions I get asked is, "What's the end-game in Lord of the Rings?" When you play an MMORPG today, the normal answer is that, well, when you get to level 50, 60, 70, you just have to wait around for the next few years for something new. And they say, "Oh wait, play this raid a hundred times and you'll be satisfied." Right? Like, "What? That's an end-game?" We've got lots of what you would call classic end-game behaviors, whether it's going to be PvP in the Ettenmoors, or raid experiences like Helegrod. We've got those mechanics and the epic loot sets to collect. Sure, we've got those mechanics--but we think the concept of the end-game really misses the point. What that phrase means is that the company has given up on making content for it. You know, why is there an end? And I think that the more I get asked that question, the more I try to spread the news about how I think it really misrepresents what the concept of being an online product is. There are two kinds of strengths [to online games]: One, obviously we play with other players online, and that's a huge incentive, so that I can be with other people. But the other one is that it's a distribution vehicle. It's not only a communication vehicle, it's a distribution vehicle. Where is the content? And so that's what we make sure, is that part of our end game is that there is no end game. [Laughs] You know, you've got another three months worth of new content this month. Enjoy that, go try that experience, whether it's music, or monsters, or adventures, or PvP.
"I agree that LOTRO has its issues. Its not a perfect game and I can think of better. I just wish someone could explain to me why people want to complain that they game isn't designed for them (which I find to be a very conceited and selfish attitude to have) and also why everyone who seems to hate LOTRO (and post in the aforementioned manner) only has 1-10 post counts. Hmmm......"
As some1 said earlier:
"Dont forget kids the higher your post counts, the bigger your penis is!"
You can powerlevel to 60 in 3 weeks in WoW easy enough. Thats completely sloloable and on quests that have been there since release.
If you were to have done this when WoW was released your options on hitting 60 would have been very limited.
Scholomance, Stratholme and UBRS would be the only PvE content available to you. Except there would be no other players to go with so you would have to wait a few days/weeks to do these. Also if i remember correctly Scholo and Strat were VERY buggy and had a large amount of issues for the first few months of release.
So your 60, the only thing you can do is 3 instances which are buggy and theres no one to do them with. What about PvP?. Battlegrounds didnt exist, neither did honor rewards. The only thing you could do was go around and gank grays.
Itemisation. Spellpower didnt exist, neither did spell crit. As a caster (upto50% of the classes) the only stats of any worth were stamina and intellect which is just health and mana.
Et Cetera.
Almost everything you described is standard fare in MMO releases. It doesnt matter if your budget is 10 million or 30 million. Its just the way its done.
Since this has turned into a WoW vs LOTRO thread, I'll throw my 2 coppers in.
I played WoW at release, and I surely don't remember 88 zones. If you count each named area, then maybe you are right.
3500 quests? If you divide that in half for horde/alliance that comes out to 1750. I did just about every quest multiple times on both horde and alliance (excluding class quests), and I know that is way too high.
WoW had a larger land mass than LOTRO when they both were released.
As far as raids, I think it's a tie.
LOTRO has a battleground , WoW didn't.
LOTRO has an honor system, WoW didn't.
WoW had more places you can't get to, but could see.
As far as things to do, LOTRO has more things to do. You can spend hours playing an instrument.
Can you get bored in LOTRO? Yes.
Do you level faster than in WoW? Yes. Although I've seen people hit 60 pretty fast after TBC was released. I saw level 70 BE Paladins within 2 months of release of TBC.
I had 66 "zones" at launch in a spreadsheet I kept to keep track of things. Note that I'm counting each of the major cities as a zone since it has it's own map. I wonder if that 88 is the current number of zones which would seem about right?
Now as far as the number of quests go, I have no idea of whether that 3500 is legit or not, but you can't just divide the total by 2 since many quests can be done by both the Horde and Alliance, so those you would have to be counted seperately. You would only divide the number of Horde or Alliance ONLY quests by 2 to get a relative number of quests for each faction. And even then, since there IS a 2nd faction, you can't just discount it. 2 factions as opposed to 1 with more quests just for that faction is still more quests.
As for Battlegrounds, no WoW didn't have any Battlegrounds or Honor system, but that doesn't mean there wasn't PvP. Gurubashi arena existed at launch and you could go there and fight. You couldn't walk thru Stranglethorn Vale without getting attacked. There were daily group PvP fights going on over by Tarren Mills. So just because there wasn't a seperate zone to fight in doesn't mean much. And to be honest, the PvMP that LOTRO has doesn't "feel" quite the same as the PvP in WoW. There's no real animosity between the factions like there is in WoW. I know several Alliance friends who hate the Horde and will attack them on site no matter what level.
C'mon, playing an instrument? WoW has fishing which is equally as useful. You're grasping at straws now.
Wow, lots of hate in this thread. Why are MMO players such ass hats? It's a great game for a lot off people.
I am enjoying LOTRO way more than WoW.
For those of you thinking of playing this game don't let this thread discourage you. This person is playing the game for the wrong reasons; of course they are going to be disappointed.
The point of this style of game is story, immersion, and interaction. Not rush rush rush, raid. If you play any game for the wrong reasons, you will be disappointed – know your game before you play. A good MMORPG is all about story, immersion, and interaction and IMO LOTRO does is right.
At WoW Launch there was 24/7 PvP at Hillsbrad Foothills. It was laggy as hell but HELL IT WAS FUN (on PvP server of course). I laughed my ass off when a Mage shootet a pyroblast from 40 meter away while i was in sneak (lagg *gg*).
At WoW Launch there was 24/7 PvP at Hillsbrad Foothills. It was laggy as hell but HELL IT WAS FUN (on PvP server of course). I laughed my ass off when a Mage shootet a pyroblast from 40 meter away while i was in sneak (lagg *gg*).
LOTRO doesn’t have massive alliance ganking the horde at Hillsbrad, it must totally suck.
Funny I felt the same way about the game and im far from power gaming, I spread out my activities and I found coh alot more casual, just because you dont like someones experience with lotro does not mean its just an opinion, your in fact giving your opinion that he has an opinion but you cannot replace opinions with someones real life experience with anything im sorry it does not work that way.
Yep people cannot recognize the reality when something is truly bad, I have seen the worst single player games ever made and with poor reviews from just about every game magazine and website out there yet they claim its better then a 9.5 game, now do not get me wrong im not saying a poorly designed game cannot be fun to someone but it does not mean it was well designed.
You guys either do not have enough experience in the gaming world or you just need to learn how to face reality, no one is saying quit your game but lotro could of done way better and it is lacking much, Im hate wow and think its better I feel very limited compared to wow when I play lotro.
whys it always gota be this is better than that? no one is going to change their mind and there is nothing to prove. the elitist standards are bad enough in game dont know why it has to play a part in everything
Comments
This is why they developers are continuing the story. Be patient. Most MMORPGs are in bad shape at release. This is quite smooth in contrast.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
We all have definite definitions of rushing, but if you've capped even one toon in three weeks (much less one or two), your were definitly "rushing" by my standards. Most of the folks I play with are between 25 and 35, and we've all been playing since at least launch. More is being added (including a 25 person raid) in just a few weeks. But if you played enough to cap out, cap your crafting skills, and get all your titles in three freaking weeks (!?!), then obviously Turbine is not going to add content fast enough for you. You'd only chew through the new content in a week or two and be left twiddling your thumbs. If you want a time sink, go play EQ or FFXI. Alternately, If you want a game that doesn't suck, but has been around long enough to have a fully fleshed out end game, try EQ II or DAoC. Really, you'll like any of those better than LoTRO.
One thing that many may not be aware of...
During most of the beta the designers were dead set on not having any raids. None, none at all. They wanted it to be the MMO for non-raiders. They have announced plans to add one 25 man raid, and some players are actually upset about it (I could care less one way or another, personally). I think more than anything, this illustrates the disconnect between the basic design of the game, what the average LoTRO plarer wants from it, and what the OP (and many others posting in this thread, apparently) want from an MMO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yea.. i was in beta for this game since August but, I never played past 15.. I didn't want to ruin the experience. There is a lot more that could be done here aside from raiding. 6 man instances are a great way to ditch raiding, but theres hardly any. I guess true casuals will have fun spending a month going thru an instance that took us 7 hours? Unlikely.
If they are that casual then they will get frusterated with the instance and it's length... for first timers it takes like an hour just to kill your way to the instance door.
So you have 2 sides here, the total casuals and the people who play more..if they are going to put these hard 6 man instances, why not cater to the people that want it and put out tons of it.. so people who want to go there can, and the super casuals can do their thing in their own time.
Currently waiting for - Perfect World English, Age of Conan
How to play Perfect World in english
Currently messing with - Requiem Online
Yea.. i was in beta for this game since August but, I never played past 15.. I didn't want to ruin the experience. There is a lot more that could be done here aside from raiding. 6 man instances are a great way to ditch raiding, but theres hardly any. I guess true casuals will have fun spending a month going thru an instance that took us 7 hours? Unlikely.
If they are that casual then they will get frusterated with the instance and it's length... for first timers it takes like an hour just to kill your way to the instance door.
So you have 2 sides here, the total casuals and the people who play more..if they are going to put these hard 6 man instances, why not cater to the people that want it and put out tons of it.. so people who want to go there can, and the super casuals can do their thing in their own time.
They are adding more new six mans in the June patch (unclear how many from patch notes, looks like at least two or three). I think that will be in plenty of time for most players. They are also adding class armor sets. The first set will be available at level 30, there will be new sets to work on as you level up, and they will not require raiding to obtain. And of course there is still PvMP, which is just now getting going on most servers (too few freeps). So I think casuals (even folks who are 35 or so right now) will have plenty to do.
The "casuals" that at least get to play for large stretches on the weekends will have several six mans to fart around in, the middle of the road casuals can work on getting armor sets, and the "super casuals" can do what they are doing now. The "casual raiders" (is there such a thing?) will get one raid, and "hardcore raiders" will still have almost nothing to do. Overall, I think Turbine is actually doing a good job covering their target market.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
you do know that in actuality the amount of shere content for -one- character in wow was far lower then that right? plenty of duplicate quests except for various sides, as well as 6 different starting zones with 6 more connected zones. compared to lotro's one starting area, and one path up, it is actually much more similar then you make it out to be. Also alot of lotro's quests have continue marks for 1 quest, whereas wow quests become new quests whenever you talk to any npc. For example theres about 3-4 "quests" in each starting area that involve you flying on the gryphon talking to a npc and flying back.
Now i know there are alot of seperate steps similar to what wow had in quest chains, but theres far more "continue on" for the same quest.
and there were LARGE gaps in WoW where there simply was no real content especially in the 35-55 range. Unless you instance -alot- theres alot of tedium in questing, due to the fact that quest "nodes" have only 3-5 quests and thats it for that -entire zone- and that's how it STILL IS TODAY.
Now i'm not excusing lotro here, but wows "Content" is far slimmer then you make it seem.
*edit*
let alone that wow had no bgs. WoW had no "deeds", and wow didn't have a honor system upon release which lotro were all released with.
also to note that pvp=/=the only end game. I'm sorry but monster play is MORE of a endgame then darkfall or shadowbane or any of those pvp games ever will have, because it's more of a game then rather gank these people all nights long lolzrozrz.
Actually, you are completely incorrect. WoW had ~3500 quests at release and 88 zones. You can go to any game site and look this information up. Lotro released with about the same zonewise, in the 70's (counting 14 majors, with towns and instances), but only about 1100 quests. ( I'm sure more will be found and may get up to the 1300-1500 mark)
So, in actuality, all things considered, it's almost half of what WoW had at release and WoW had notably less content than any game release up to that time. Sorry to burst your bubble, but LotRO has less content at release than any ptp game at release, ever. In fact, after ALL of their patches and game add-ons over the next few months LotRO will finally fill in about 50 million square meters, which is what EQ2 launched with.
Where did you find that information? The numbers I got were from an interview. I will try and look up the interview, but your number of 3500 quests at release sounds way way over exaggerated.Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I doubt the OP has seen every place nor has he done every quest. For me MMORPGs are all about the social aspect, as I have stated on here many many times - none of these games are challenging, they are all just time sinks and leveling grinds. The only difference between them is the amount of polish and the steepness of the grind. I enjoy LoTRO, but for me it is all about the journey, not the destination.
I miss DAoC
I played WoW at release, and I surely don't remember 88 zones. If you count each named area, then maybe you are right.
3500 quests? If you divide that in half for horde/alliance that comes out to 1750. I did just about every quest multiple times on both horde and alliance (excluding class quests), and I know that is way too high.
WoW had a larger land mass than LOTRO when they both were released.
As far as raids, I think it's a tie.
LOTRO has a battleground , WoW didn't.
LOTRO has an honor system, WoW didn't.
WoW had more places you can't get to, but could see.
As far as things to do, LOTRO has more things to do. You can spend hours playing an instrument.
Can you get bored in LOTRO? Yes.
Do you level faster than in WoW? Yes. Although I've seen people hit 60 pretty fast after TBC was released. I saw level 70 BE Paladins within 2 months of release of TBC.
The game is lame, I purchased at released and do not regret unistalling it at all. Its very simple and EVERYONE IS THE SAME!!! thats my biggest gripe with it all.
Do yourself a favor and dont listen to the hype, lame mmo.
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Check out some of the mmo's I have played:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/129987/page/1
PC STATS:
- Q9550
- Evga GTX 280 SSC x2 (SLI)
- 8GB DDR3
- Nforce 790i Ultra
We saw many posts in beta about folks being conserned of re play value. That was a big point because other games offer different questing areas through out leveling process and different areas to explore. Else where it was a hoot to start a new toon and see different quests as well as different abilities .
While i was also a strong supporter of this offering I also took a break at level 18 haven't logged back in . Got frustrated with paying repairs, feeling as if every time i played i lost gold instead of progressed. Thought the travel costs were to darn high verses the stupid chain quests that if lucky got 1 silver. Gesh after that frustration i didn't mind taking a break. I also couldn't get past the questing experaince verses some grinding experiance. There should have a been just a small bump to normal experaince . Especialy if no groups to be found or other folks camping quest mobs and have no consern or wish to help you even if you ask nicely.
What we are seeing here is that folks not necesialry ready to do an alt again especialy if it is just the same quests.
I do hope you had some fun along the way, but it is really no surprise end game not much different , and or same ole same ole.
I do agree with the poster that added the comment about single player games that only last about 30 hours. That is why we choose to play mmorpgs we hope the content lasts longer.
You can find it at any game hint site, like Allakhazam's. However, Bladin is right, I didn't even think about the dual function of the quests for the different sides. Taking that into account, WoW's quest count would only be slightly over LotRO's quest count, and the zone count was pretty similar although WoW's zones were a bit larger.
I do know that Turbine was shooting to release 50 million square meters, but fell short because of time and will release the other areas later. If they had finished all the areas, it certainly would have been larger than WoW, and as big as EQ2 at release. Too bad EQ2 wasn't as polished at release, it really is a great game.
I think LotRO is a great game too, but it certainly is not for power gamers. It is very easy to bust through content pretty fast. What they have is pretty well done, though quite easy in most parts. Most power gamers should probably play it as a second game, and not their primary game. It is very good for casual gamers that just want to sit down and goof off for a little bit.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I personally consider myself a rather hardcore gamer as I have been putting in roughly 60 - 80 hours a week myself. After I read the HOC chat from stratics though I knew that they werent going to keep up with the people playing 12 hours a day. If you need a game you can commit that much to then your probably not going to be happy with LOTRO.
ATM there is plenty to do however. Deeds, Crafting, Instances, Quests, and PVMP. Unlike some guilds on my server who raced to 50 with a few people, I did my best to get the majority of my guild along the same level/quest line. Now there are about 12 - 15 of us 40+ and we are gearing up for the new expansion.
Does the game have as much content as wow does now? Nope. Did wow have as much content at day one? Um...no, thats what patches are for. Turbine is about to release their expansion thats going to bring in a 24 man raid zone, epic armor sets, and a ton of other stuff. There are also 3 more expansions in the works. Turbine did a very similar thing with Asherons Call 1. Monthly updates with massive new areas about every 6 - 12 months. With LOTRO I think we will see new land areas on a much faster basis than other games, and best of all the add ons are free.
As others have said, if you maxed out at 50, even though it was rather well know and well publicized for those of us who checked the forums, dev updates, etc that there was no end game yet, you have nothing but yourself to blame. Turbine has been extremely vocal about whats in the game and whats not and what will be soon.
Your just a few weeks ahead of schedule. Suck it up and deal with it, or cancel and move along. For the vast majority of players (those with 4 hours a day or less) LOTRO has more than enough content to keep you busy.
Jeff Anderson: Oh, it's too late, they already are. What we build is episodic content, right? We're building a pipeline, a network of programming that we provide to consumers. Anybody who's playing any of the other competitive games who aren't getting that, they should be asking why. Why are these companies just pocketing all the money and not investing in the franchise? Why are they not adding to the world that they've created? And likewise, if you don't feel your publisher is supporting you, what are you hanging out for? I think those are the things that really are becoming differentiators in the space. One of the reasons we're seeing people leaving other games like World of Warcraft is because they just don't understand what they're getting every month. They're bored with the product. And boredom means that there's nothing more for you to do.
One of my favorite questions I get asked is, "What's the end-game in Lord of the Rings?" When you play an MMORPG today, the normal answer is that, well, when you get to level 50, 60, 70, you just have to wait around for the next few years for something new. And they say, "Oh wait, play this raid a hundred times and you'll be satisfied." Right? Like, "What? That's an end-game?" We've got lots of what you would call classic end-game behaviors, whether it's going to be PvP in the Ettenmoors, or raid experiences like Helegrod. We've got those mechanics and the epic loot sets to collect. Sure, we've got those mechanics--but we think the concept of the end-game really misses the point. What that phrase means is that the company has given up on making content for it. You know, why is there an end? And I think that the more I get asked that question, the more I try to spread the news about how I think it really misrepresents what the concept of being an online product is. There are two kinds of strengths [to online games]: One, obviously we play with other players online, and that's a huge incentive, so that I can be with other people. But the other one is that it's a distribution vehicle. It's not only a communication vehicle, it's a distribution vehicle. Where is the content? And so that's what we make sure, is that part of our end game is that there is no end game. [Laughs] You know, you've got another three months worth of new content this month. Enjoy that, go try that experience, whether it's music, or monsters, or adventures, or PvP.
the linkwww.shacknews.com/extras/2007/053007_jeffanderson_2.x
I miss DAoC
As some1 said earlier:
"Dont forget kids the higher your post counts, the bigger your penis is!"
You can powerlevel to 60 in 3 weeks in WoW easy enough. Thats completely sloloable and on quests that have been there since release.
If you were to have done this when WoW was released your options on hitting 60 would have been very limited.
Scholomance, Stratholme and UBRS would be the only PvE content available to you. Except there would be no other players to go with so you would have to wait a few days/weeks to do these. Also if i remember correctly Scholo and Strat were VERY buggy and had a large amount of issues for the first few months of release.
So your 60, the only thing you can do is 3 instances which are buggy and theres no one to do them with. What about PvP?. Battlegrounds didnt exist, neither did honor rewards. The only thing you could do was go around and gank grays.
Itemisation. Spellpower didnt exist, neither did spell crit. As a caster (upto50% of the classes) the only stats of any worth were stamina and intellect which is just health and mana.
Et Cetera.
Almost everything you described is standard fare in MMO releases. It doesnt matter if your budget is 10 million or 30 million. Its just the way its done.
I had 66 "zones" at launch in a spreadsheet I kept to keep track of things. Note that I'm counting each of the major cities as a zone since it has it's own map. I wonder if that 88 is the current number of zones which would seem about right?
Alterac Mountains,Arathi Highlands,Ashenvale,Azshara,Badlands,Barrens,Blackfathom Deeps,Blackrock Depths,Blackrock Spire,Blasted Lands,Burning Steppes,Darkshore,Darnassus,Deadmines,Deadwind Pass,Desolace,Dire Maul,Dun Murogh,Durotar,Duskwood,Dustwallow Marsh,Eastern Plaguelands,Elwynn Forest,Felwood,Feralas,Gnomeregan,Hillsbrad Foothills,Hinterlands,Ironforge,Loch Modan,Molten Core,Moonglade,Mulgore,Onyxia's Lair,Orgrimmar,Ragefire Chasm,Razorfen Downs,Razorfen Kraul,Redridge Mountains,Scarlet Monastery,Scholomance,Searing Gorge,Shadowfang Keep,Silithus,Silverpine Forest,Stockade,Stonetalon Mountains,Stormwind,Stranglethorn Vale,Stratholme,Sunken Temple,Swamp of Sorrows,Tanaris,Teldrassil,Thousand Needles,Thunder Bluff,Tirisfal Glades,Uldaman,Undercity,Un'Goro Crater,Wailing Caverns,Western Plaguelands,Westfall,Wetlands,Winterspring,Zul'Farrak
Now as far as the number of quests go, I have no idea of whether that 3500 is legit or not, but you can't just divide the total by 2 since many quests can be done by both the Horde and Alliance, so those you would have to be counted seperately. You would only divide the number of Horde or Alliance ONLY quests by 2 to get a relative number of quests for each faction. And even then, since there IS a 2nd faction, you can't just discount it. 2 factions as opposed to 1 with more quests just for that faction is still more quests.
As for Battlegrounds, no WoW didn't have any Battlegrounds or Honor system, but that doesn't mean there wasn't PvP. Gurubashi arena existed at launch and you could go there and fight. You couldn't walk thru Stranglethorn Vale without getting attacked. There were daily group PvP fights going on over by Tarren Mills. So just because there wasn't a seperate zone to fight in doesn't mean much. And to be honest, the PvMP that LOTRO has doesn't "feel" quite the same as the PvP in WoW. There's no real animosity between the factions like there is in WoW. I know several Alliance friends who hate the Horde and will attack them on site no matter what level.
C'mon, playing an instrument? WoW has fishing which is equally as useful. You're grasping at straws now.
I am enjoying LOTRO way more than WoW.
For those of you thinking of playing this game don't let this thread discourage you. This person is playing the game for the wrong reasons; of course they are going to be disappointed.
The point of this style of game is story, immersion, and interaction. Not rush rush rush, raid. If you play any game for the wrong reasons, you will be disappointed – know your game before you play. A good MMORPG is all about story, immersion, and interaction and IMO LOTRO does is right.
I think the OP needs to play Lineage II.
At WoW Launch there was 24/7 PvP at Hillsbrad Foothills. It was laggy as hell but HELL IT WAS FUN (on PvP server of course). I laughed my ass off when a Mage shootet a pyroblast from 40 meter away while i was in sneak (lagg *gg*).
Yep people cannot recognize the reality when something is truly bad, I have seen the worst single player games ever made and with poor reviews from just about every game magazine and website out there yet they claim its better then a 9.5 game, now do not get me wrong im not saying a poorly designed game cannot be fun to someone but it does not mean it was well designed.
You guys either do not have enough experience in the gaming world or you just need to learn how to face reality, no one is saying quit your game but lotro could of done way better and it is lacking much, Im hate wow and think its better I feel very limited compared to wow when I play lotro.