That's exactly the thought that brings the "shady image" to nudes and nudity. Every man I know, and I know mostly medical students from my semester, enjoy sex and enjoy looking at naked women. Not because they think its aesthetically beautiful, not because they like watching girls... No, plainly because it makes them horny. Period. They wanna have sex, the most natural thing in the world. So?
I'm not talking about kids, that's a different story. But people that enjoy sex and nudity are like you and me and my neighbour. And nobody else will play this game. No distorted teen-raping pervert from you uncles basement, no pedophilia devoured nerd from suburbia... *sigh*... And HEY, it's only friggin topless girls. Honestly, the girl from the beer commercial is topless, the one from the bed commercial is naked, at least here - nobody cares.
And probably - even in the US - there might be an uproar within certain societies, like you bashed Harry Potter for being heretic (the thought is still so hilarious ), but eventually, and that's the actual message, 99% regular people will play this game. Maybe vastly more males than females, but NORMAL males...
I have to say I agree that this is blown way out proportion. Escpecially when you look at the violence compared to the nudity. However, one thing I haven't seen brought up is Funcom's commitment to the world of Conan. If Middle Earth had been ripe with naked fairies and the artists said they needed to be in to stay true to Tolkien's vision - not as many people would have argued with that. All Funcom's doing is trying to stay true to the world's vision. Death, gore, violence, nudity, prostitution and yes, even antiquated notions such as slavery are present in this world. If you don't like it, then avoid the game and especially the books.
As for the parents who won't buy the game because they have little ones running around, thank you for doing your part. I wouldn't expect you to bring your child to an "R" rated movie either. It's a sacrifice those with kids have to make, and it is greatly appreciated by most of us. Please keep up the good work.
The average videogamer is 33 years old, for MMO's it's 26 and 75% of MMO players are over 18. The average age of game buyers is 40 and (which I think is nifty) 25% of over 50s in the US play video games.
Never underestimate marketing practices. It's on the experience of generations of greedy businessmen that they make these decisions and I can assure you, they are far more informed about thier target demographic then you'll ever be.
I don't know if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me... but for the record, I am that target demographic. I am a 33 year old male gamer with a reasonable amount of disposable income. I'm pretty sure I fit within their target demographic.
Adults pay for video games, not teenagers and and very young adults. Their target audience has kids. The data you posted seems to back my point up more than serve to refute it. I'll tell you what I do know about American parents of young children... without rationalizing it or attempting to justify it, we are generally more comfortable with our kids being exposed to computer generated violence than computer generated nudity. It doesn't matter if you agree with or understand that view, but I think we can all agree that it's a fact.
I realize the game isn't aimed at kids, but if it launches with abundant exposed breasts, I won't play it. Not because I dislike boobs myself, but because my computer is one of 4 in the room, two of them belong my children.
Ok, if you can't understand my post dont fret, I now know I was in error for expecting you to.
Just for future reference though, typing "Thier target audience has kids" and following up later with "I realize the game isn't aimed at kids" isn't the way to make a point, unless that point is that you have no idea what a target audience is.
Right, you shouldn't have expected me to understand your post, at least we agree on that. Letting people know ahead of time that you often make no sense, and that you have poor reading comprehension skills, might be a good idea in the future. Don't worry though, I'm a patient guy, and have a little bit of experience working with the learning disabled, so I'll clear up the part that was so hard for you to understand. I did not say their target audience includes kids, I said their target audience HAS kids, as in "their target audience is made up of people with children". So once again, although the game is not target toward children, it is target toward people who have children. I, like a lot of parents of young children, try to refrain from running content on my computer that contains nudity in the presence of said young children.
BTW, just because you don't agree with me, there is no reason to be a d-bag.
I'll conceed that, I misunderstood you initially. However, it doesn't change anything. Playing an MMO doesn't have to be a family affair where you sit all your kids in front of the monitor. The extent your kids will be exposed to AoC is entirely up to you and as such isn' t a concern, or even controllable, by the games devs.
As for my sources, it's not hard to google. Most of it comes from http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/ (great site that has surveys and articles on many aspects of MMO gaming) and whatever else came from a google search for 'average age of gamers'.
Nyran, It's not like Sal is trying to say that Funcom shouldn't make a game with a mature setting. He is just saying that why he wouldn't play it and feels that there are going to be many others in his age group that won't for the same reason. That was the answer to the original thread about nudity in the game and what the op ( and many others) of this thread totally missed.
Actually the leading theory on why boobs are highly arousing in men is tied to our early ancestral species first stood up and evolved. See almost all mammals aren't bi-pedal, so the primary arousal is the butt, the ass. So as we began to walk up right more and more the attention was taken off the arse and more toward the face, and that boobs may very well have developed, we evolved, so that our boobs (that were flat most the year, but filled with milk when having a child) began to grow out to kind of replace the butt, as the eyes are now level with the body. if you take some womens boobs and set them just the right way, covered up just right, they look JUST like an ass. This supports the theory. Maybe that's why mens chests are highly curved and muscular and symmetrical (on a 'nice chest') as well. Because thats where the eyes are naturally. Oh and FYI I bet if you took a pole of men and women around the world, the ass would still be 2nd or 3rd (perhaps first on women). Because while breasts draw the eye early, the ass is still ingrained as the most sexual part of the body on almost all mammals.
I took a class on Anthropology in College (Cornell U) it was fascinating. The professor was great. We did a lot of 'in field' study. Just one of many different scientific, theoretical and philosophical interests of mine. Funny, I don't work in any of the fields.
Ok that post was WAYY to serious. I want to see these boob screenshots damnit! lol.
Personally, I think your professor was just an "ass man", and was defending his view point. I know many men that list all kinds of different things that are their main attributes of interest on women. I consider my self a "full package" man. No one individual female part of the anatomy is my focus. For me its how it all comes together in a woman that attracts me to her physically.
As for nudity in AoC, its true to the writing and art. I wish the rating would keep the youngsters away, but will probably attract more in the long run. In the end, I will probably end up on an RP server mainly because that tends to be a more mature crowd.
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
Oh no that's the theory with the most support (well, that I knew of about 15 years ago.) It makes a lot of sense to me. But I'm sure since our first upright walking ancestors, australopithecus, we've evolved a lot more sexually. In fact, I know we have. So no we don't necessarily just pinpoint breasts, but they do play a major factor in our sexuality.
I always assumed that the things that the alternate sexes looked at were for fairly obvious reasons:
In women: overall body tone and good hair means the person is in good shape.
Good legs (not muscular, but well formed) are useful for running and also point to good general fitness.
Full breasts mean lots of milk for children.
Wide hips mean easier birthing.
A well-formed behind means good springing power, speed, and general fitness. See... women store extra body fat in their behinds.
Extra body fat (adipose tissue) is useful as an energy store when food supplies are weak.
In men it is much the same way:
Women look at wide shoulders and back as being strong and having good stamina.
A tight, apple-like bottom means good springing power and muscular legs mean good running power.
Big biceps indicate an ability to club-the-shit out of stuff.
Being very tall also lends itself to beating the crap out of things.
Thick hair indicates good health as does a beard.
Males used to go out and do dangerous shit and get maimed and killed. Women used to do fairly non-dangerous stuff and have and care for babies.
Body fat used to be extremely valuable when McDonalds and freakin KFC weren't around. When you're clubbing or raising your own food in a low tech situation, every calorie counts. Double when you're also raising children without medical care.
Our situation has changed since these instincts were incorporated, but a few thousand years hasn't been long enough for us to change genetically. So we are still hidebound inside our chemistry.
America, which originally (and to some extent still does) had a puritan bent, puts an odd spin on "wrong". All sex = bad. All body urges = bad. Anything that feels good is bad. Essentially a repression of everything animal in a vain attempt to "boost us further from the beast", which we are. The one thing the US has a problem with is sex. Violence is OK, sex is bad.
Odd isn't it?
Think about this: If a 24 year old high-school teacher takes a young 15-17ish boy home, who by the way is genetically pre-disposed to mate as often as possible during that time as his hormones are coming on line, and has sex with him, she goes to prison for 10 years.
If she beats him all the way to the brink of death and then pokes out one of his eyes she'll get probably 1-2 years for assault.
Typical American puritanical hypocrisy. I'm a girl so I don't look at boobs that much, some nice buns on half naked male npc's would be nice tho!!
Broomy, I have to ask, the curiosity is doing my nut in. What is it about men's bottoms that illicit the similar arousal in women as boobs do in men?
I imagine it's probably as hard to nail down as boobums, but perhaps you know. Personally, I imagine the generic male fascination with breasts has something to do with breast-feeding as a child, but what is it about a man' s rear-end that fires many a woman's sexuality? As a 'coin-bouncer' backside a sign of strength?
No disrespect intended at all, I'm honestly curious as hell about it.
Well, here's my opinion on this: Flab has a way of making things effeminate. I nice firm butt is indeed a sign of strength and control. Control in what you eat and how much you work out. Women like men that show signs of control. Being willy-nilly and blimping out is a sign of no control. Most women know that in regards to other parts of the male "anatomy" size really doesn't matter. Men are more obsessed with that and thats really a guy thing. The old saying "It's not the size of the stick, but the magic in the wand" is very true and relevant. So as a woman that knows this truth I focus on other things. I could go on, but I dont want to be banned
Myself (32) and my father (60) both are MMO fans. Even though we live in different states, whenever we get together we talk about the new and upcoming games.
I think it was roughly a year ago when AoC announced their "Mature" rating due to lots of Blood and gory animations. The first thing my dad mentioned was "the kids are going to flock to this game", and I think he hit the nail on the head.
Now with the nudity, it adds another draw to teenage kids who always want what they cannot have. The United States has strict social opinons on nudity, but Funcom is a European based company. I don't see them completely "covering up" the nudity, but they will probably be forced to add parental options to the EN-US client.
Personally, I am strongly pro-boobs.
Well said, if people really think a mature rating is going to keep children from playing, or nudity is going to keep them from playing becuase the box says mature, think again it will do the opposite.
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious...
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious... Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Please leave your sympathy for us poor lost souls at the door, this is the wrong forum for that. If you wish to engage in the topic of religious dispute and potentially battle to keep the misguided from hell, feel free to join us in the offtopic section.
Note: that does also apply in similar spirit to those you were originally adressing.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
I never got it ethier, parents will let their children see people getting their eye's ripped out, people disembowled and even decapiatation but as soon as it comes to some breasts its ZOMG no. Imagine If they had vag jay jays and penors in the game.. people in the US wouldn't even sell it. I never understood people fear of the human body... I blame religion.
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious... Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Please leave your sympathy for us poor lost souls at the door, this is the wrong forum for that. If you wish to engage in the topic of religious dispute and potentially battle to keep the misguided from hell, feel free to join us in the offtopic section.
Note: that does also apply in similar spirit to those you were originally adressing.
Ok. I love irony. Herein we have a delicious piece of it, so follow the bouncing ball. (and refer to the above poster's sig)
First: "Vae victus totus palma ut acolytes"
My guess would be someone looked this up in a latin dictionary and cobbled the words together. Latin doesn't work the way english does. Please follow:
The phrase literally translated most likely means: woeliving (all|whole|entire|complete) palm (should be plural nominative as in palms (palmis), which substitute for awards, and probably should've been laus as this is glory & honor and should've been err dative in any case (laui or lauis)) (assuming to, even though this is not implied) (companion|attendant|helper) (which of course is from akolouthos, the greek word of the same. used in most modern contexts as from the bible in an attendant to a priest. implies christianity.)
totus should've had an adjective ending as it is modifying victus or living: seeing as totus is a masculine word, and I believe matches the case of the word to which it is attached, is -um or -os depending on if we accept living as plural or singular. I forget which is assumed in greek and latin (in english crowd is a singluar and can be crowds). If english-like, then it would be totum as victus would be in the err accusative case here and it'd be -um, which would be victum.
the entire thing, assuming the meaning is similar to the parenthetical comment placed under the latin phrase, translated into semi-coherent latin by someone who hasn't looked at it in a decade or two is: vae victum totum, palmis|lauis akolouthos (ending is oh-s not uh-s, long o as this is 2nd declension greek).
Second: If you have not already figured it out, is this guy, with a sig that implies complete religious context and applying it to video games, is attempting to tell us NOT to talk about religion in a topic which is steeped deeply in and has its root cause in religion in a discussion that is about video games.
Pretty ironic, no?
Thirdly: The implied violence in the statement which is either completely out of line with christianity or completely within the expression christianity has given to the world, depending on your point of view of christianity, is icing on the cake.
After fridays screenshot leaks there has been increasing amount of people whining they wont allow their kids to play with them if there was topless women running around... Hello!!!! ...you would let your kid play a game where you can chop off bodyparts from your enemies and where blood and gore is everywhere but if pair of breasts flash by it's an outrage? ...doublestandard much? I hope these people wont come to europe for family vacation...they would get eternal traumas from our streetcorner ads alone.
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious... Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious... Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Comments
That's exactly the thought that brings the "shady image" to nudes and nudity. Every man I know, and I know mostly medical students from my semester, enjoy sex and enjoy looking at naked women. Not because they think its aesthetically beautiful, not because they like watching girls... No, plainly because it makes them horny. Period. They wanna have sex, the most natural thing in the world. So?
I'm not talking about kids, that's a different story. But people that enjoy sex and nudity are like you and me and my neighbour. And nobody else will play this game. No distorted teen-raping pervert from you uncles basement, no pedophilia devoured nerd from suburbia... *sigh*... And HEY, it's only friggin topless girls. Honestly, the girl from the beer commercial is topless, the one from the bed commercial is naked, at least here - nobody cares.
And probably - even in the US - there might be an uproar within certain societies, like you bashed Harry Potter for being heretic (the thought is still so hilarious
), but eventually, and that's the actual message, 99% regular people will play this game. Maybe vastly more males than females, but NORMAL males...
Meridion
I have to say I agree that this is blown way out proportion. Escpecially when you look at the violence compared to the nudity. However, one thing I haven't seen brought up is Funcom's commitment to the world of Conan. If Middle Earth had been ripe with naked fairies and the artists said they needed to be in to stay true to Tolkien's vision - not as many people would have argued with that. All Funcom's doing is trying to stay true to the world's vision. Death, gore, violence, nudity, prostitution and yes, even antiquated notions such as slavery are present in this world. If you don't like it, then avoid the game and especially the books.
As for the parents who won't buy the game because they have little ones running around, thank you for doing your part. I wouldn't expect you to bring your child to an "R" rated movie either. It's a sacrifice those with kids have to make, and it is greatly appreciated by most of us. Please keep up the good work.
Adults pay for video games, not teenagers and and very young adults. Their target audience has kids. The data you posted seems to back my point up more than serve to refute it. I'll tell you what I do know about American parents of young children... without rationalizing it or attempting to justify it, we are generally more comfortable with our kids being exposed to computer generated violence than computer generated nudity. It doesn't matter if you agree with or understand that view, but I think we can all agree that it's a fact.
I realize the game isn't aimed at kids, but if it launches with abundant exposed breasts, I won't play it. Not because I dislike boobs myself, but because my computer is one of 4 in the room, two of them belong my children.
Ok, if you can't understand my post dont fret, I now know I was in error for expecting you to.
Just for future reference though, typing "Thier target audience has kids" and following up later with "I realize the game isn't aimed at kids" isn't the way to make a point, unless that point is that you have no idea what a target audience is.
Right, you shouldn't have expected me to understand your post, at least we agree on that. Letting people know ahead of time that you often make no sense, and that you have poor reading comprehension skills, might be a good idea in the future. Don't worry though, I'm a patient guy, and have a little bit of experience working with the learning disabled, so I'll clear up the part that was so hard for you to understand. I did not say their target audience includes kids, I said their target audience HAS kids, as in "their target audience is made up of people with children". So once again, although the game is not target toward children, it is target toward people who have children. I, like a lot of parents of young children, try to refrain from running content on my computer that contains nudity in the presence of said young children.
BTW, just because you don't agree with me, there is no reason to be a d-bag.
I'll conceed that, I misunderstood you initially. However, it doesn't change anything. Playing an MMO doesn't have to be a family affair where you sit all your kids in front of the monitor. The extent your kids will be exposed to AoC is entirely up to you and as such isn' t a concern, or even controllable, by the games devs.
As for my sources, it's not hard to google. Most of it comes from http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/ (great site that has surveys and articles on many aspects of MMO gaming) and whatever else came from a google search for 'average age of gamers'.
Nyran, It's not like Sal is trying to say that Funcom shouldn't make a game with a mature setting. He is just saying that why he wouldn't play it and feels that there are going to be many others in his age group that won't for the same reason. That was the answer to the original thread about nudity in the game and what the op ( and many others) of this thread totally missed.
Go watch Dateline and page me when you get the message.
As for nudity in AoC, its true to the writing and art. I wish the rating would keep the youngsters away, but will probably attract more in the long run. In the end, I will probably end up on an RP server mainly because that tends to be a more mature crowd.
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
lol it's like not letting your kid watch the Vagisil commercial.
I always assumed that the things that the alternate sexes looked at were for fairly obvious reasons:
In women: overall body tone and good hair means the person is in good shape.
Good legs (not muscular, but well formed) are useful for running and also point to good general fitness.
Full breasts mean lots of milk for children.
Wide hips mean easier birthing.
A well-formed behind means good springing power, speed, and general fitness. See... women store extra body fat in their behinds.
Extra body fat (adipose tissue) is useful as an energy store when food supplies are weak.
In men it is much the same way:
Women look at wide shoulders and back as being strong and having good stamina.
A tight, apple-like bottom means good springing power and muscular legs mean good running power.
Big biceps indicate an ability to club-the-shit out of stuff.
Being very tall also lends itself to beating the crap out of things.
Thick hair indicates good health as does a beard.
Males used to go out and do dangerous shit and get maimed and killed. Women used to do fairly non-dangerous stuff and have and care for babies.
Body fat used to be extremely valuable when McDonalds and freakin KFC weren't around. When you're clubbing or raising your own food in a low tech situation, every calorie counts. Double when you're also raising children without medical care.
Our situation has changed since these instincts were incorporated, but a few thousand years hasn't been long enough for us to change genetically. So we are still hidebound inside our chemistry.
America, which originally (and to some extent still does) had a puritan bent, puts an odd spin on "wrong". All sex = bad. All body urges = bad. Anything that feels good is bad. Essentially a repression of everything animal in a vain attempt to "boost us further from the beast", which we are. The one thing the US has a problem with is sex. Violence is OK, sex is bad.
Odd isn't it?
Think about this: If a 24 year old high-school teacher takes a young 15-17ish boy home, who by the way is genetically pre-disposed to mate as often as possible during that time as his hormones are coming on line, and has sex with him, she goes to prison for 10 years.
If she beats him all the way to the brink of death and then pokes out one of his eyes she'll get probably 1-2 years for assault.
Now who feels like a rare steak?
I imagine it's probably as hard to nail down as boobums, but perhaps you know. Personally, I imagine the generic male fascination with breasts has something to do with breast-feeding as a child, but what is it about a man' s rear-end that fires many a woman's sexuality? As a 'coin-bouncer' backside a sign of strength?
No disrespect intended at all, I'm honestly curious as hell about it.
Well, here's my opinion on this: Flab has a way of making things effeminate. I nice firm butt is indeed a sign of strength and control. Control in what you eat and how much you work out. Women like men that show signs of control. Being willy-nilly and blimping out is a sign of no control. Most women know that in regards to other parts of the male "anatomy" size really doesn't matter. Men are more obsessed with that and thats really a guy thing. The old saying "It's not the size of the stick, but the magic in the wand" is very true and relevant. So as a woman that knows this truth I focus on other things. I could go on, but I dont want to be banned
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
-Allegria
Man... it saddens me to see all of these people talking about not being religious...
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I would encourage those of you who instantly ignore things like this to actually take a moment to just listen...He is always there.
Please leave your sympathy for us poor lost souls at the door, this is the wrong forum for that. If you wish to engage in the topic of religious dispute and potentially battle to keep the misguided from hell, feel free to join us in the offtopic section.
Note: that does also apply in similar spirit to those you were originally adressing.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
me too.
Please leave your sympathy for us poor lost souls at the door, this is the wrong forum for that. If you wish to engage in the topic of religious dispute and potentially battle to keep the misguided from hell, feel free to join us in the offtopic section.
Note: that does also apply in similar spirit to those you were originally adressing.
Ok. I love irony. Herein we have a delicious piece of it, so follow the bouncing ball. (and refer to the above poster's sig)
First: "Vae victus totus palma ut acolytes"
My guess would be someone looked this up in a latin dictionary and cobbled the words together. Latin doesn't work the way english does. Please follow:
The phrase literally translated most likely means: woe living (all|whole|entire|complete) palm (should be plural nominative as in palms (palmis), which substitute for awards, and probably should've been laus as this is glory & honor and should've been err dative in any case (laui or lauis)) (assuming to, even though this is not implied) (companion|attendant|helper) (which of course is from akolouthos, the greek word of the same. used in most modern contexts as from the bible in an attendant to a priest. implies christianity.)
totus should've had an adjective ending as it is modifying victus or living: seeing as totus is a masculine word, and I believe matches the case of the word to which it is attached, is -um or -os depending on if we accept living as plural or singular. I forget which is assumed in greek and latin (in english crowd is a singluar and can be crowds). If english-like, then it would be totum as victus would be in the err accusative case here and it'd be -um, which would be victum.
the entire thing, assuming the meaning is similar to the parenthetical comment placed under the latin phrase, translated into semi-coherent latin by someone who hasn't looked at it in a decade or two is: vae victum totum, palmis|lauis akolouthos (ending is oh-s not uh-s, long o as this is 2nd declension greek).
Second: If you have not already figured it out, is this guy, with a sig that implies complete religious context and applying it to video games, is attempting to tell us NOT to talk about religion in a topic which is steeped deeply in and has its root cause in religion in a discussion that is about video games.
Pretty ironic, no?
Thirdly: The implied violence in the statement which is either completely out of line with christianity or completely within the expression christianity has given to the world, depending on your point of view of christianity, is icing on the cake.
Now, thats talking
Cheers
_____________________________________________________
Currently Playing: GTA4, Urban Terror, Aion,Dreamfall:TLJ,Fahrenheit
Sorry i had to comment this:
LOOL
ohhh well....ahah ♥
Cheers
_____________________________________________________
Currently Playing: GTA4, Urban Terror, Aion,Dreamfall:TLJ,Fahrenheit
Sorry i had to comment this:
LOOL
ohhh well....ahah ♥
Cheers
I guessed he was being facetious, but who knows.