"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
With that explanation of AoC's combat system, I would prefer a version of the system in DAoC with it's positional and reactionary styles. A few weapon skills had stuff you could just spam, but for the most part, you really had to pay attention to what was going on to get in your most effective combinations. I enjoyed DAoC's combat system over all others I've used so far.
DAoC's combat was definitely an improvement to the static near-turn-based combat of it's day. Makes me wonder why WAR has gone with the wack-a-mole hotkey smashing system that is so common of high fantasy MMOGs.
They have skill list on thsi site look it up most classes have reactionarys etc. other combos , chains etc.
Also the healr point is a good one as a shaman healer the more damage i do the more i heal for,, so i have to chose to do damage or heal (there a fine line to get best results). Also warrior priest do damage to get a power pool to use different set of heals and abilities so they also have to walk a fine line.
Cd is in WAR ie you can't just run through stuff.
as far as pvp combat goes no game is more player driven and choice based as WAr (of the current mmo being release) . AOC well how is clicking numpad 7 , 5, 3 and gettign more damage with a combo better than numbers 1 5 , and then 3 and getting better damage using a chain... simply put .. your fooling yourself.
(however the fact that the attacks are aimed in different spots is a good idea).
Originally posted by xprimez
I was gonna say somthing to you and the lady above me but this video and picture will say it all.
Rofl is this a joke i think so , first off that vid was speed up by like 50%.
Still i agree anyone saying AOC animation > wars atm well fanboy.
Still the arguments about same old same old might very well fit daoc must have been same old also.. still maybe same old is same old for a reason. Like it works.
Oh and the person talkign jack about that disc... plz say ur joking that disc is super ass sweet. It doesn't just hover statically it moves / leans based on the direction the character is moving and it looks real real good.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yeah, I just spent 1.2k on my laptop for college, so im not shelling out any money on any new pc. It has 1.8 gigs of ram and has a graphics card that can run vangaurd on low and EQ2 on medium with no lag or problems, but I really need it for school.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Warhammer: you can go anywehre and explore: Wow: you are set on a path and have to follow it See how easy that was? Tell me, what is a lvl 5 noob going to explore in ungoro crater? Locations of graveyards and the fastest way to get from one to your corpse? Do you rush with your lvl 20 mage to silithus as fast as you can to explore it? Not likely. There are 2-4 zones that are appropriate to any given lvl. You go to one of those zones and lvl there, then you go to one of the next 3-4 zones appropriate to that lvl. You could go to a lower lvl zone with a higher lvl char, but I've never seen a lvl 60 exploring ashenvale forest in wow.
War is the same way, you get 3 zones per teir and are free to explore any of them as much as you wish. You are also free to explore higher lvl zones, but just like your lvl 12 warriors wasn't rushing to tanaris desert, you aren't very likely to rush to higher tier zones. If you felt wow gave you enaugh freedom to explore, than war will give you as much if not more. So can people stop with this "it's linear and I like to explore" nonesense. Or at least compare war to a game where you could actually explore, instaed of comparing it to wow which is just as linear as any other game.
That's not what I mean. I mean in WoW, lets say Barrens....you can run in any direction and go to the other side of the map...it will take awhile, but you can do it. You may pull aggro and die....but you can do it. You can run from one corner to the next without walls on both sides of you preventing you from doing it. IT'S OPEN. WARHAMMER IS NOT! You follow a set path....you don't go, "hey I want to go left...and go left to another part of the map or another zone. You go STRAIGHT...and it widens up as you go. So basically what it is your hand is being held down a set path and, yes it opens up wider but it's still forces you into a direction not by YOUR choice. I like to have a choice. Sorry if I made you pee pee your pants.
Ummm I'm not really sure what Warhammer you've been following. I'll just link some maps for you. If you want to go left, right, forward, backward, you can. There aren't walls forcing you to go anywhere. I don't see what you mean by holding you to a set path. You can travel anywhere you like.
Anyway, maybe some maps will clear up what you think is going on, that isn't.
Those are only three of the maps, but could you explain what you mean by only being able to go "straight"? I just really didn't understand what you were saying. In everyone of these zones if you want to go from bottom left to top right, you sure in hell can.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
But do to it being real time, with the whole 'find the open spot and attack' thing and the fact that your speed, accuracy and damage is partly based off your own skill. It's on a completely different level then the standard.
And I think that this is exactly where the problem is going to be.
I remember playing UO, which has "twitch" combat, a lot like AoC. In UO in a 1 on 1 fight with evenly matched people, the person with the faster connection won. Period. If both players are evenly matched & have the same speed connection, well then it just came down to who got that 50 millisecond lag spike first. A lot like playing Counter Strike, honestly.
Graphics may have come a long way since UO, but network code has not. I've had a few seconds of lag here and there during PvP fights in WoW, LOTRO, DAoC, ect... Usually they don't cost me my life & in the general course of things I don't even notice that they happened most of the time. But when you are playing a game where you have to actively dodge, parry, attack certain areas, ect... I can see it getting very frustrating very quickly.
Can you imagine how many times you should have killed a guy in Counter Strike, but you hit a 1/10 of a second of lag & he kills you, or after you unloaded an entire clip the guy magically appears 2 feet to the left. The exact same thing is going to happen in AoC.
"Fack! I just attacked the guy's unshielded side three times then all of a sudden his shield appears in that hand & all three attacks are blocked."
Or how about, "I was 10 feet away from that guy, how did he just hit me with a huge combo!?"
I'm looking forward to Conan, but I don't really see how they're going to pull the combat off.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
It explains that there are going to be REWARDS for exploring and Paul even makes a joke saying that there will probably be guides telling you where they are and it will ruin all the time and effort devs have put in for people who like to EXPLORE!
Secondly, I think that allthough the AoC combat is inovative the lag factor will be its undoing and theres going to be alot of people pissed off because they've had there ass's handed to them by some n00b through like a second of lag. I dont know about you lot but that sounds very fustrating to me!
LOL at anyone who hasn't actually played it at an event. Of course it looks shitty on someones video camera. And of course the first newbie levels look the same.
Go actually play the game (especially pvp scenerio) and you'll get blown away. I thought the same thing when I watched crappy vids of someones cam corder. This game is awesome.
AoC IMO is gonna suck thats just me. The combat system is a real turn off. And the people who are all like, "Its better then a wow rip off. " Need to learn to read and study for themselves. I have played WoW sense the release. And after looking at WAR for almost 3 weeks and reading up on it. Im gonna have to say its nothing like WoW. And if you guys repute what i said then oh well i don't mind. Cause you guys most of not played WoW very long. Untill the release of WAR im gonna go laugh at the success of AoC .
Originally posted by Jetrpg as far as pvp combat goes no game is more player driven and choice based as WAr
I'd prefer to choose my team mates instead of having the computer pick for me.
Originally posted by mydoghumpsu2
AoC IMO is gonna suck thats just me. The combat system is a real turn off. And the people who are all like, "Its better then a wow rip off. " Need to learn to read and study for themselves. I have played WoW sense the release. And after looking at WAR for almost 3 weeks and reading up on it. Im gonna have to say its nothing like WoW. And if you guys repute what i said then oh well i don't mind. Cause you guys most of not played WoW very long. Untill the release of WAR im gonna go laugh at the success of AoC .
And i'll laugh at you because with a name like that you wont be playing on the AoC servers.
WAR has a UI simliar to WoW, it has the same creatures/monsters, it has the same cartoony feel, you are kidding yourself thinking otherwise - the makers sat around and thought "hmm lets get a GW license to make WAR because 1. we can do a good job, and 2. it will appeal to the WoW players -bigtime!" The video shown from the OP showed us its similarites even more, it showed us some lame low lvl quests, you know the repetitive kind. It showed us some little green thing auto targeting monsters - how easy. Your an auto target lover and thats cool, just shows me you like things easy in game, to have no challenge, to be repetitive, to have no skill, I'd say war's combat is more of a turn of - an upgrade of a 2004 style seen elsewhere.
Nah, I'm just looking for a game that isn't latency dependable. And its apparent that you have no idea what WAR is about. But nice try lol. Same creatures and monsters? O-o Have you even looked at the site for one minute? How many times do I have to repeat that Elves,Humans,And Dwarfs are apart of the fantasy Genre. Go read some mid-evil fantasy books that do not mention one of those classes, are they WoW ripoff's? Are you telling me that LOTR whos author was
J. R. R. Tolkien??
Wrote world of warcraft? Lol. you can sit there and say everything is in comparisons. AoC uses mounts. Thats a WoW ripoff. AoC uses PvP thats a WoW ripoff? I think you should go read some WAR lore, and there site. It would be very good for you.
"If i wanted to be a Barb and swinging a sword I'd pick up Diablo II"
O-o Thats a picture or in video screen shot. Id also like to make it known that its 6 -8 months from release.
Yea collect 3 barrels and return back to me, or go kill X amount of spiders in the woods, if the developers are putting content like this in now, who knows how much repetitive stuff is in. Its a poor looking screen for sure.
You dont think latency will be a problem in WAR with alot of ppl on screen at once?
I know alot about war actually and the lore its in, my son plays with the little figures and paints them up quite nicely. For another game to have elves, orcs and other high fantasy is repetitive too which was my point. As for J R R Tolkien and his books I can asure you I read them before you was born. Let me just point out aswell I used to live 3 doors from a house he used to live in too so im well aware of the lore and what the gentleman brought to the public.
Conan had mounts 75 years ago in the lore long before Warhammer was made..please remember than.
If i wanted to play a repetitive game like war, and the chance for an imbalanced RvR system then I would play the game, Im here researching for my son and he loves G.W. So it looks like he will be playing War and I'll be playing something a little more "fresh"
At the end of the day I'd say the WaR UI is closer to DAoC (for obvious reasons) which means WoW ripped off DAoC! ...see how easy it is to compare.
I've played 2 out of the three games in question, and read and looked at them all, my eyes dont deceive the similarities:
Sure DAoC's left side bar can be put on the bottom, but its obvious warhammer although most likely different from WoW (graphically)shares an almost uncanny resemblence to its UI. All I was saying is that the game is making a statement for its target audience so they can fit right in at home.
And? daoc is very old, it's ui doesn't include half the things war will (no map for example) and the most important point, who the he** cares what the ui looks like as long as it's good? Are you paying 15$ to play ui? Or are you paying 15$ to play a fun game and the only requirement you have for ui is it needs to be good and not interfere with gameplay.
Wow has a great ui, perhaps one of the best in mmos. Seeing how there really is no way to make a unique ui (what you going to do? not display hp bar? have no quick bars or maybe hide chat chanel?) it stands to reason that a company should simply take that ui and use it for their own game. Sure they woulc move mini map to the left upper corner and move hp bar to the bottom and what not, but in the end it is still the same basic ui.
Oh, well. war is similar to wow in grahpics (imo for orcs and dwarfs, humans are more similar to daoc than wow) because blizzard riped warhammer blah blah. People who want to play war however are not playing it because it has graphics (weather they are similar to wow or eq2) they want to play war because it offers rvr experience that a lot of people enjoyed in daoc. Seeing how wow is a pve game similar to eq. War can't be a wow clone unless they change gameplay from rvr to "raid instance a, get gear, so you can raid instance b, get gear to raid instance c..." So long as mythic doesn't do that with war, war will never be a wow clone
PS: Just to reiterate. War will offer rvr experience in warhammer setting, it will not offer a warhammer rpg/table top experience in mmog setting.
I can show pictures of almost a 100 games with the same gui. There is no valid point. And if you've played WoW and as much WoW end game content as i have which i doubt you have WAR is new a refreshing. And I expect AoC to be much the same. Tool bars,Health Bars, Chat bars. You can't change that. After all it is a game and the person needs a GUI to play now don't we. Without that it would be like playing dos pong.
WOW's interface looks like ass to begin with, and WAR completely deliberately and un-ashamedly cloned it almost pixel for pixel. AOC too, if you've seen its screenshots.
It cracks me up that these two games claim to be pushing the genre places it's never been before, and then release lol-screens from their own game with WOW's tired old shitty looking GUI.
Comments
Female dwarf player character.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
DAoC's combat was definitely an improvement to the static near-turn-based combat of it's day. Makes me wonder why WAR has gone with the wack-a-mole hotkey smashing system that is so common of high fantasy MMOGs.
They have skill list on thsi site look it up most classes have reactionarys etc. other combos , chains etc.
Also the healr point is a good one as a shaman healer the more damage i do the more i heal for,, so i have to chose to do damage or heal (there a fine line to get best results). Also warrior priest do damage to get a power pool to use different set of heals and abilities so they also have to walk a fine line.
Cd is in WAR ie you can't just run through stuff.
as far as pvp combat goes no game is more player driven and choice based as WAr (of the current mmo being release) . AOC well how is clicking numpad 7 , 5, 3 and gettign more damage with a combo better than numbers 1 5 , and then 3 and getting better damage using a chain... simply put .. your fooling yourself.
(however the fact that the attacks are aimed in different spots is a good idea).
Rofl is this a joke i think so , first off that vid was speed up by like 50%.
Still i agree anyone saying AOC animation > wars atm well fanboy.
Still the arguments about same old same old might very well fit daoc must have been same old also.. still maybe same old is same old for a reason. Like it works.
Oh and the person talkign jack about that disc... plz say ur joking that disc is super ass sweet. It doesn't just hover statically it moves / leans based on the direction the character is moving and it looks real real good.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yeah, I just spent 1.2k on my laptop for college, so im not shelling out any money on any new pc. It has 1.8 gigs of ram and has a graphics card that can run vangaurd on low and EQ2 on medium with no lag or problems, but I really need it for school.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
That's not what I mean. I mean in WoW, lets say Barrens....you can run in any direction and go to the other side of the map...it will take awhile, but you can do it. You may pull aggro and die....but you can do it. You can run from one corner to the next without walls on both sides of you preventing you from doing it. IT'S OPEN. WARHAMMER IS NOT! You follow a set path....you don't go, "hey I want to go left...and go left to another part of the map or another zone. You go STRAIGHT...and it widens up as you go. So basically what it is your hand is being held down a set path and, yes it opens up wider but it's still forces you into a direction not by YOUR choice. I like to have a choice. Sorry if I made you pee pee your pants.
Ummm I'm not really sure what Warhammer you've been following. I'll just link some maps for you. If you want to go left, right, forward, backward, you can. There aren't walls forcing you to go anywhere. I don't see what you mean by holding you to a set path. You can travel anywhere you like.Anyway, maybe some maps will clear up what you think is going on, that isn't.
Those are only three of the maps, but could you explain what you mean by only being able to go "straight"? I just really didn't understand what you were saying. In everyone of these zones if you want to go from bottom left to top right, you sure in hell can.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
I'm partial to AoC but I'm glad there will be two solid competing MMO's coming out. Competition is better for the gamer amirite?
Nice video! but high elves come on!!!!!!!! I want to see some Dark ELVES!!!!!
who doesnt want to see those druggy dark elves people come on!!! o yeh how do you redo your name i forgot put a d in?
And I think that this is exactly where the problem is going to be.
I remember playing UO, which has "twitch" combat, a lot like AoC. In UO in a 1 on 1 fight with evenly matched people, the person with the faster connection won. Period. If both players are evenly matched & have the same speed connection, well then it just came down to who got that 50 millisecond lag spike first. A lot like playing Counter Strike, honestly.
Graphics may have come a long way since UO, but network code has not. I've had a few seconds of lag here and there during PvP fights in WoW, LOTRO, DAoC, ect... Usually they don't cost me my life & in the general course of things I don't even notice that they happened most of the time. But when you are playing a game where you have to actively dodge, parry, attack certain areas, ect... I can see it getting very frustrating very quickly.
Can you imagine how many times you should have killed a guy in Counter Strike, but you hit a 1/10 of a second of lag & he kills you, or after you unloaded an entire clip the guy magically appears 2 feet to the left. The exact same thing is going to happen in AoC.
"Fack! I just attacked the guy's unshielded side three times then all of a sudden his shield appears in that hand & all three attacks are blocked."
Or how about, "I was 10 feet away from that guy, how did he just hit me with a huge combo!?"
I'm looking forward to Conan, but I don't really see how they're going to pull the combat off.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
First off to the people who believe that theres not going to be no exploration factor to WaR watch this -
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/pp_Quests_bitrate.html
It explains that there are going to be REWARDS for exploring and Paul even makes a joke saying that there will probably be guides telling you where they are and it will ruin all the time and effort devs have put in for people who like to EXPLORE!
Secondly, I think that allthough the AoC combat is inovative the lag factor will be its undoing and theres going to be alot of people pissed off because they've had there ass's handed to them by some n00b through like a second of lag. I dont know about you lot but that sounds very fustrating to me!
LOL at anyone who hasn't actually played it at an event. Of course it looks shitty on someones video camera. And of course the first newbie levels look the same.
Go actually play the game (especially pvp scenerio) and you'll get blown away. I thought the same thing when I watched crappy vids of someones cam corder. This game is awesome.
AoC IMO is gonna suck thats just me. The combat system is a real turn off. And the people who are all like, "Its better then a wow rip off. " Need to learn to read and study for themselves. I have played WoW sense the release. And after looking at WAR for almost 3 weeks and reading up on it. Im gonna have to say its nothing like WoW. And if you guys repute what i said then oh well
i don't mind. Cause you guys most of not played WoW very long. Untill the release of WAR im gonna go laugh at the success of AoC 
.
If that's really WAR then all i have to say is,
WOW, that looks terrible.
(pun intended)
And i'll laugh at you because with a name like that you wont be playing on the AoC servers.
WAR has a UI simliar to WoW, it has the same creatures/monsters, it has the same cartoony feel, you are kidding yourself thinking otherwise - the makers sat around and thought "hmm lets get a GW license to make WAR because 1. we can do a good job, and 2. it will appeal to the WoW players -bigtime!" The video shown from the OP showed us its similarites even more, it showed us some lame low lvl quests, you know the repetitive kind. It showed us some little green thing auto targeting monsters - how easy. Your an auto target lover and thats cool, just shows me you like things easy in game, to have no challenge, to be repetitive, to have no skill, I'd say war's combat is more of a turn of - an upgrade of a 2004 style seen elsewhere.
Nah, I'm just looking for a game that isn't latency dependable. And its apparent that you have no idea what WAR is about. But nice try lol. Same creatures and monsters? O-o Have you even looked at the site for one minute? How many times do I have to repeat that Elves,Humans,And Dwarfs are apart of the fantasy Genre. Go read some mid-evil fantasy books that do not mention one of those classes, are they WoW ripoff's? Are you telling me that LOTR whos author was
J. R. R. Tolkien??
Wrote world of warcraft? Lol. you can sit there and say everything is in comparisons. AoC uses mounts. Thats a WoW ripoff. AoC uses PvP thats a WoW ripoff? I think you should go read some WAR lore, and there site. It would be very good for you.
"If i wanted to be a Barb and swinging a sword I'd pick up Diablo II"
O-o Thats a picture or in video screen shot. Id also like to make it known that its 6 -8 months from release.
You dont think latency will be a problem in WAR with alot of ppl on screen at once?
I know alot about war actually and the lore its in, my son plays with the little figures and paints them up quite nicely. For another game to have elves, orcs and other high fantasy is repetitive too which was my point. As for J R R Tolkien and his books I can asure you I read them before you was born. Let me just point out aswell I used to live 3 doors from a house he used to live in too so im well aware of the lore and what the gentleman brought to the public.
Conan had mounts 75 years ago in the lore long before Warhammer was made..please remember than.
If i wanted to play a repetitive game like war, and the chance for an imbalanced RvR system then I would play the game, Im here researching for my son and he loves G.W. So it looks like he will be playing War and I'll be playing something a little more "fresh"
At the end of the day I'd say the WaR UI is closer to DAoC (for obvious reasons) which means WoW ripped off DAoC!
...see how easy it is to compare.
Damn they will get a big chunk of WoW players move to WAR when it is released. Transition should be easy, it looks like a new expansion to WoW.
I've played 2 out of the three games in question, and read and looked at them all, my eyes dont deceive the similarities:
Sure DAoC's left side bar can be put on the bottom, but its obvious warhammer although most likely different from WoW (graphically)shares an almost uncanny resemblence to its UI. All I was saying is that the game is making a statement for its target audience so they can fit right in at home.
And? daoc is very old, it's ui doesn't include half the things war will (no map for example) and the most important point, who the he** cares what the ui looks like as long as it's good? Are you paying 15$ to play ui? Or are you paying 15$ to play a fun game and the only requirement you have for ui is it needs to be good and not interfere with gameplay.
Wow has a great ui, perhaps one of the best in mmos. Seeing how there really is no way to make a unique ui (what you going to do? not display hp bar? have no quick bars or maybe hide chat chanel?) it stands to reason that a company should simply take that ui and use it for their own game. Sure they woulc move mini map to the left upper corner and move hp bar to the bottom and what not, but in the end it is still the same basic ui.
Oh, well. war is similar to wow in grahpics (imo for orcs and dwarfs, humans are more similar to daoc than wow) because blizzard riped warhammer blah blah. People who want to play war however are not playing it because it has graphics (weather they are similar to wow or eq2) they want to play war because it offers rvr experience that a lot of people enjoyed in daoc. Seeing how wow is a pve game similar to eq. War can't be a wow clone unless they change gameplay from rvr to "raid instance a, get gear, so you can raid instance b, get gear to raid instance c..." So long as mythic doesn't do that with war, war will never be a wow clone
PS: Just to reiterate. War will offer rvr experience in warhammer setting, it will not offer a warhammer rpg/table top experience in mmog setting.
[quote]Originally posted by BryanBoitono I just recently read a book [/quote]
| ' |
100, right.
WOW's interface looks like ass to begin with, and WAR completely deliberately and un-ashamedly cloned it almost pixel for pixel. AOC too, if you've seen its screenshots.
It cracks me up that these two games claim to be pushing the genre places it's never been before, and then release lol-screens from their own game with WOW's tired old shitty looking GUI.