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Delayed release...

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  • fozzie22fozzie22 Member Posts: 1,003

    did anyone mention DnL yet seems to be turning into that sad saga

  • checkthis500checkthis500 Member Posts: 1,236

    Originally posted by Loupster


     
    Originally posted by checkthis500


    Honestly this makes me dislike the devs.  They kept saying "AoC WILL be out Oct. 30th."  "We are confident that AoC will be released on Oct. 30th."
    "The combat system is revoluationary.  It's amazing."
    Now they're saying.  Well the combat system isn't revolutionary and we need to make it easier and easier to get into.  And we're not really that confident for an Oct. 30th release.
    You guys have fun waiting for this game.  I'm really surprised at all the people saying it's a "good thing" though. 
    When a first delay happened, sure it was a good thing, but when a second happens, it makes you wonder what they were doing this whole time.
    Did no one internally realize that the combat system was flawed as is?  Did they really have to have beta to see exactly what they had made?
    To me this speaks of a lack of internal testing, and a lack of planning ahead.
    I mean what have they been doing since they delayed it the first time?  Working on the Camel and Tarantula animations?
    Sorry, this just really pisses me off.  The devs can sit there and claim this and claim that and everyone just soaks it up and believes it.  Then when they delay the game to change everything the were claiming, everyone just soaks it up again.
    Maybe in 2009 they'll have perfected the game.  Screw Funcom and their wily, lets spew crap at everyone ways.
    I won't be playing or following AoC anymore.  Kudos to those of you that think Funcom "knows what they're doing."

    while I mostly agree with what your saying you should also note that while having a flawed/hard combat system may seem like an obviouse flaw for devs to find it isn't always the case. Now I've never worked on a game myself but I've heard often from developers that when you work with a game so closely for so long you get so close to the game that you can't actually tell if it's any good or not. You might think it's brilliant because it's everything you envisioned it to be but that doesn't mean the game isn't actually crap.

     

    it's very reasonable that the devs couldn't see the combat system problems themselves because they had used the system so long that it felt perfect to them but it took the input from new beta testers to realize that it wasn't so perfect after all.

    Coming from a Software testing group that tests accounting software.  If we would have come out and said "Hey we have this problem with adding, subtracting and multiplying."  It doesn't work right.  And we had been developing/internally testing it for 2 years.  We would have all been fired.

    it's an extreme example, but it's accurate.

    The thing is.  It "is" a good thing that they're delaying it.  The bad thing is that the reasons for delaying it are things that people have been pointing out for 2 years, and they didn't think to go back and think they were credible opinions until probably the majority of beta testers gave them the same exact opinions.

    I think it's bad form on the testing group that works for Funcom.  Someone should have "ponied up" and said "Ummm guys, this combat system is a bit hard and could use "a lot of little tweaks over the whole thing."

    ---------------------------------------------
    I live to fight, and fight to live.

  • sirespersiresper Member Posts: 317

    Nice catch on that cheap shot made by the funcom dev. I missed that the first time I read it. Doesn't surprise me in the least that they would stoop so low to make personal attacks on other developers. Very unprofessional. And that level of unprofessionalism deserves roasting!

    They must really be scared of the competition to lash out like that. Of course, if my development team was made up of programming interns like Funcom's appears to be.. i would be scared too. They have a lot in common with their fanbase.. Kind of like how they say dogs resemble their owners.

    Can't wait to see what prerendered scenes they have to show off at games day  and to see the dogs eat it up like turds on the lawn.

    Lying to customers.. check

    Attacking other games.. check

    'Secret" features they won't show until release.. check

    Horde of mindless fanboys.. check

    Vanguard 2.0 here we come.

    The question is... will SoE be willing to save them?

    I didn't really want to say these mean things... but you know funcom was just asking for it this time. 

  • TenebrosoTenebroso Member Posts: 262

    Originally posted by Teiraa


    Good news for the players.
    Bad news for the producers.
    But few will be surprised :)

     

    I Agree

  • LlamfiaLlamfia Member UncommonPosts: 12

    Gives players extra time to update to DX10;especially with Christmas coming up.....

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Originally posted by Llamfia


    Gives players extra time to update to DX10;especially with Christmas coming up.....

    Give them all the time you want and it won't matter when there is nothing to gain from the upgrade other than worse performance and no games that use it.  DX10 is dead, it was on life support before this delay but now it is officially dead in the water as there is no way in hell it will reach a substantial deployment in time to draw the attention of developers.

    --------------------------------
    Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
    Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD

  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190

    Originally posted by Fion


     
    They weren't calling WAR's delay bullshit. They called bullshit on the excuse 'we want to make the newbie dwarf zone better, so we are delaying the game almost an entire year.' That was bullshit. It just wasn't done. Mark Jacobs could have ponied up and said 'we don't think the game is were we want it at this time, in terms of content, zones, classes, everything, so we are delaying almost a year.' Instead he said one classes newbie zone wasn't up to snuff. That was a bullshit excuse. They were lying, through their teeth, and everyone knew it. The game simply wasn't done at the time.
    You'll note in the same letter, he said they did the wrong thing by releasing Anarchy Online before it was done. At least he admitted to that, and are taking steps to do things right this time around.
    Last time I checked Funcom had no behind the scenes access to mythic. So it was a bit childish to call another company out on something he could not know the truth about.

    The funcom Devs have always been a bit combative... Petty does not equal incompetent though. It would not surprise me if funcom does feel threatened but mythic. Mythic has gotten so much positive feedback because they have been very open... at the same time Funcom has been railed against constantly about lack of information.

    In the end both games will come out and be successful.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • AzanusonAzanuson Member Posts: 38

    Hey, we could have given you some bull**** reason about needing more time to polish a startup area or whatnot. This is the truth. It stings.

    Wow, this coming from a Funcom dev. That is soo professional.

     

  • Ok guys, il make a very simple explanation for this delay:





    ready?



    Its a shocker!



    I swear!



    "FUNCOM"

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767

    It is possible that both games delayed release for technical reasons: Perhaps the expected number of people that have the necessary technology to run their products adequately is smaller than expected and it is not possible for them (due to the game engine, or perhaps DX10) to optimize anymore than they already have.  

    I had read a few beta journals about War having problems with poor performance in crowded areas.... 

    I sincerely hope that this is not the reason, since I am not planning on upgrading my computer for at least another 2 years. 

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • davvindavvin Member UncommonPosts: 154

    while i'm a little sad that it's getting pushed back, because i really was wanting to try it, i'm glad that they've delayed it and not rushing out something that may not be fully ready yet. in all it's good for the gamers, we don't just want any crap game, we want quality and it's good to see that developers are taking notice.

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  • JetrpgJetrpg Member UncommonPosts: 2,347

    Originally posted by Fion


    How do you WAR fanboi's even know he was talking about WAR? He simply said
    "Hey, we could have given you some bull**** reason about needing more time to polish a startup area or whatnot. This is the truth. It stings."
    Perhaps he saying just that, 'I could just tell you we need to improve the startup zone. But instead I'll be a man and give you the real reason, even though it makes me look bad for doing it cause I didn't realize the problem earlier.'
    Just because thats the exact excuse Mythic gave us for their near-year delay, doesn't mean he was even talking about it. Someone replies 'hey nice call, I didn't even see that on the first read through.' You saw it, you just didn't associate it with Mythic's reasons behind the delay until you saw someone make that association in this thread. It's much more likely that Gaute, a world away, absorbed in making his game, doesn't even know why WAR was delayed, just that it was.
     
    Oh and don't say other Dev's don't take shots at other companies. Please, Mark Jacobs used to do it ALL THE TIME when DAoC was young, and still does from time to time.
    Fanboy alert ... maybe not but come on don't defend the indefenseable.

    PS Mark Jacobs owns you.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • sirespersiresper Member Posts: 317

    I gotta admit, it takes a lot of balls for a guy to talk about bullshit excuses in one breath and then blame the delay on 'making the combat easier to understand' in the next.

    Completely dishonest of course... but ballsy.

    Honesty would have been 'we are delaying the game because we realized half our game isn't implemented and the combat was boring as hell and nothing like what we promised'.

    There is nothing complex about AoC's combat. Never was and never will be. It is a few keys that you press in a certain order to do a combo. People have been playing that exact same system a million times before in other non-mmorpg games. Putting it in a mmorpg doesn't just magically turn it into a different system that people can't grasp.

    This excuse was just more spin from a company that already has an established reputation for deceit. Is there anyone out there that honestly believes pressing a few keys in a certain order is too complex? How deluded do you have to be to buy that?

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  • sirespersiresper Member Posts: 317
    Originally posted by Fion


    Unless your in general beta (which just started days ago,) how do you know this he is lying? Maybe they are delaying because they DO want to make the combat easier to get into. Did you read the whole letter? The change they are making, while not something that will effect the core functionality of the combat system, is a big change. Combined with what ever else needs to be done before the new release, how do you know he's lying?
    How do you know he is telling the truth? But ok, ill entertain the question.
    Four reasons mainly:
    1) We've been lied to by Funcom before (more on this further down)

    2) He put a completely unwarrented cheap attack at another game in his explanation, which puts his integrity and professionalism, and that of the company he represents, into serious question. 

    3) The combat system is not even remotely complex. I don't think its believable. I'd be more likely to believe that Kellog's recalled pop-tarts from grocery stores everywhere because people couldn't figure out how to toast them.

    4) Plenty of footage to show that combat still has some issues (non 'complexity' wise), and plenty of absent footage to show that other systems in the game aren't quite ready to be revealed yet.

    #4 seems like the most realistic reason for the delay, and is what I was expecting for the explanation. Instead I get a 'our players couldn't figure out our combat system' excuse. Which isn't even faulting their own development when you think about it.. its faulting the players for not being able to figure it out. 'We're sorry but you are too stupid to understand our perfect combat system. We'll dumb it down to make it easier for you to grasp.'
    Does this 100% prove he is lying? Nope, nothing in this world is certain. But I feel there is plenty of supporting evidence to strongly suggest it.  

     
    Ah, but the fact remains that poeple WEREN'T grasping it. I'm sure the hardcore gamers were doing just fine. But not those who don't play MMOG's like they are a job. I wouldn't call the combat system impossible or super difficult. But with 30+ combo's per class to remember, and mechanics that are dramatically different from almost any other MMOG (were you select target, click button, and the combat is done for you,) clearly some people were having a hard time with it.
    You don't need to play mmog's like a job to understand the concept of hitting buttons in a certain order. I generally have a pretty low opinion of a lot of gamers but even so... I cannot believe anyone could possibly be.. challenged enough that they don't get hitting buttons in a certain order. If they are that dumb... how did they even figure out how to turn the pc on? They have to hit the power button on the pc.. then the monitor.. then click a login button on the screen! Voila! They have recreated the basic concept behind AoC's combat system!
    As for too many combos to remember - that doesn't sound like a complexity issue so much as a human memory issue. And people don't need to remember 30+ combos at the same time to play the game. They can remember 5 if they want, or just the few they are currently using. And hell, with the combat rose or whatever you call it, they don't have to remember any at all, the game shows you what to press.
    Lol never underestimate the ability of players to be total retards. How does Funcom have an 'established reputation for deceit.'?
    Again.. I cannot believe anyone could be THAT stupid. I refuse to believe it. Even RATS in a laboratory can be taught to hit buttons in a certain order to get cheese.
    As for the established reputation, I'm referring to AO's launch. I was told what the condition of the game at release would be by funcom, it wasn't true. I was told how soon they would fix the broken components (such as the random generated missions) of the game after release. this also wasn't true. I was strung along for months and was told how soon the major bugs would be fixed.. of course giving them that monthly fee in the process. My fault I guess for trusting them when there was so much evidence to the contrary. But like I said.. there was plenty of deceit then, in an effort to keep the game afloat. As we all know they cleaned up the game quite a bit - but they took a while, and they had to step on a lot of customers to get there.
    So there are my reasons. I hope you enjoyed them. 

     

     

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    Wow this thread really shows the haters and true colours of the more silent types.

    Kinda knew that the war boys would be all over this topic. But i'll take bets on another warhammer delay too. But I won't be dragging up old threads like some of you. Half of you lot posting have already admitted you have no interest in playing the game - but you still insist that the delay is bad - what exactly are you getting at? - sounds to me your more scared because the release of AoC is no close to warhammer. boo hooo.

    Its beyond me that people who really dislike the game continue to post here in this section.

    But lets make one thing clear, the combat system pre-refinement cannot be truly commented on without first playing it.  Want to tell me its shit without playing it? go ahead your only talking to yourself.

    I suggest those that think differently re-read what was said. Core elements ARE staying.

    I also suggest that people log onto the official forums and use the Dev Quote Search feature, and read the last 20 hrs worth.



  • Hoobley_deletedHoobley_deleted Member Posts: 677

    It pleases me to see people having such a strong reaction to this news now.

     

    I would much rather see complaints about the delay of release than see a multitude of threads in October comparing AoC's launch to that of Vanguard or AO.

     

    Oh and this is the 3rd delay by the way, not the second.

     

    I for one am sticking with AoC, WAR just doesn't cut it for me.

     

    I have to wonder about those 'jumping ship', WAR is in virtually the same boat as AoC with regards to development time / delays, so you really can't feel that strongly about it, it's just another excuse to make a troll / flame post in the forum of the game that clearly isn't to your liking. Seems that you're just disappointed because you don't have that something 'new' to tide you over until your game of choice comes out.

  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190

    Originally posted by Fion


    How do you WAR fanboi's even know he was talking about WAR? He simply said
    "Hey, we could have given you some bull**** reason about needing more time to polish a startup area or whatnot. This is the truth. It stings."
    Perhaps he saying just that, 'I could just tell you we need to improve the startup zone. But instead I'll be a man and give you the real reason, even though it makes me look bad for doing it cause I didn't realize the problem earlier.'
    Just because thats the exact excuse Mythic gave us for their near-year delay, doesn't mean he was even talking about it. Someone replies 'hey nice call, I didn't even see that on the first read through.' You saw it, you just didn't associate it with Mythic's reasons behind the delay until you saw someone make that association in this thread. It's much more likely that Gaute, a world away, absorbed in making his game, doesn't even know why WAR was delayed, just that it was.
     
    Oh and don't say other Dev's don't take shots at other companies. Please, Mark Jacobs used to do it ALL THE TIME when DAoC was young, and still does from time to time.

    It was in direct reference from Mythic's last delay because they wanted to revisit the ork and dwarf starting areas.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • ImpyrielImpyriel Member UncommonPosts: 711

    Originally posted by Hoobley
     I would much rather see complaints about the delay of release than see a multitude of threads in October comparing AoC's launch to that of Vanguard or AO.
     
    Cringes at the thought of AOs release.

    What a horrible memory. 

    Some people just don't know how to appreciate delays, most likely because they have never experienced an "AO release" moment. AO was to date the worst launch in mmo history for me. That's including Vanguard.

    That or they are silver spoon fed anus monkeys.

     

    Just going on past records with betas and launches between Mythic and FC, I would have to go with Mythic definitely. I don't really remember it being as rocky a road as with FC. Other than the minor server frustrations all mmos go through during launch. I remember losing actual characters from my account just by walking into a building in AO (happened twice if I recall). I dont think anyone wants that to happen post launch with AoC.

  • skitzo626skitzo626 Member Posts: 42
    Originally posted by Impyriel


     
    Originally posted by Hoobley
     I would much rather see complaints about the delay of release than see a multitude of threads in October comparing AoC's launch to that of Vanguard or AO.
     
    Cringes at the thought of AOs release.

     

    What a horrible memory. 

    Some people just don't know how to appreciate delays, most likely because they have never experienced an "AO release" moment. AO was to date the worst launch in mmo history for me. That's including Vanguard.

    That or they are silver spoon fed anus monkeys.

     

    Just going on past records with betas and launches between Mythic and FC, I would have to go with Mythic definitely. I don't really remember it being as rocky a road as with FC. Other than the minor server frustrations all mmos go through during launch. I remember losing actual characters from my account just by walking into a building in AO (happened twice if I recall). I dont think anyone wants that to happen post launch with AoC.



    Woah, I heard the stories, but never that bad. And yeah, only the most rabid fanboi would ever think Funcom has a better track record then Mythic. Just the total lack of info about AoC's pvp, casting system and crafting worried me and like many others, called the delay. I honestly didn't figure it to be this long though.

  • Well, not was no wonder why Funcom never showed anything about there PvP system because it was so awfull. In fact the hide the information for serveral month and only 3 month before they are going to launch they just delayed it again as they have done about 5-7 times now. Its the second time this year. Funcom was not fantastically prolific during its six year tenure and they still dont have a steady cashflow. Of cause they got a ekstra 30M USD to save the company. But lets think for like 30 seconds. Lets say they didnt get that ekstra 30M USD form private from the shareholders, then they would have launch a Age of Conan (= Vanguard 2) to Oct 30 no doubt about it.

  • ImixZinzImixZinz Member CommonPosts: 553

    "we could have given you some bull**** reason about needing more time to polish a startup area or whatnot."

     

    Wow! what a childish prick... The worst part is Warhammer Online has been in development by Mythic for ... 2 YEARS and he has the gall to use this as as an excuse "oh its ok cause they did it first". EAMythic could push back WAR for 3 more years and still make a better deadline then you twats.

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,518

    Originally posted by Thefonz

    Originally posted by Apraxis


    Ok.. no doubt, both will have over 75k subs. I agree with it. But to be honest, i expect a lot more subs for war. It is WoW 2, and will be the next big success, when i look at the hype all over the world.
    Do i think both will have over 350k after a year? War most problably.. AoC.. maybe. But however.. we will see.
    And the main point i have at the moment.. i really guess, that the production costs of both were most probably higher than for almost any other mmorpg before, so it could not enough to have just 200k. However, this is just my guess, and could be wrong.

    Most of the "hype" is in Europe where majority of the beta signups are at, the TT game is very big over there so making WaR you instantly have a huge fanbase for it. WoW2 is just a really hollow statement most base it on the artwork. The interface shouldn't be a reason because most MMo's follow the same template of it. It's also a little crazy to believe that both games will need over 200k subscriptions to do well, that doesn't seem right, 200k subscription is high for an MMO these days, and I don't think either of these games cost the amount of money that Vanguard cost. I guess we'll wait and see what happens, both games will probably be around for a while in my eyes.

    Yeah.. the hype in europe is extreme. I am from germany, and by now, the WAR community is the second largest after WoW.. and WAR is not even released. But this is not really unexpected.. DAoC was in germany the best sold mmo before WoW.. much more subs than EQ or any other mmorpg, and WAR TT is also quite famous here. The AoC community in germany is in comparation almost zero.

    WAR and AoC cost both much more than Vanguard, or got the vanguard production team over 120 devs, as both WAR and AoC have. I really dont know how much they will need, to call it a success, but it will be much more than any mmorpg before, and i really guess both aim at 500k subs+, and that 200k could not be enough to call it a success, it may be enough to run it in a healthy state, but as i said.. just guesswork.

     

  • ShadowzielShadowziel Member Posts: 71

    so sad that we have to wait so they can dumb down a game 

    Everything Happens For A Reason! "Shadowziel"

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