I'd have no problem with stealthers if what they do took about the same time as the snipers do in their ghillie suits. I like the way that the Forgotten Rrealms games such as Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the others deal with it. If you can be plainly seen you can't stealth. Rather you have to stealth quite a ways away or around a physical barrier where the enemy can not see you. And all the while you're approaching them they all have a chance to hear you, or see through your stealth, or to some extent feel you there with some extra sensory perception. I figure if you're gonna have magic you might as well throw in some ESP while you're at it.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I'd have no problem with stealthers if what they do took about the same time as the snipers do in their ghillie suits. I like the way that the Forgotten Rrealms games such as Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the others deal with it. If you can be plainly seen you can't stealth. Rather you have to stealth quite a ways away or around a physical barrier where the enemy can not see you. And all the while you're approaching them they all have a chance to hear you, or see through your stealth, or to some extent feel you there with some extra sensory perception. I figure if you're gonna have magic you might as well throw in some ESP while you're at it.
I believe with the skill perception this is their intent, but like Athelan said, it wasn't a working feature in the build we saw at Dragon Con.
I hate stealth classes. I think the only reason games keep implementing them is because there is a whole group of MMO gamers out there that need that crutch. They are unbalanced. Unless they are extremely week against always visible players (actually make them use stealth to survive on a battlefield) than its unbalanced in pvp.
It is a Gamer´s dream to be jumped by a horde of naked stealthbarbies named "Fallenangel", "Angelofdarkness" or "Paris666", and 3 seconds later you are nothing but a bloody puddle.
Stealth fits very well to this game. It is a Gamer´s dream to be jumped by a horde of naked stealthbarbies named "Fallenangel", "Angelofdarkness" or "Paris666", and 3 seconds later you are nothing but a bloody puddle.
Your point is moot though, because if they didn't stealth and came up on you, you would be a bloody puddle in three seconds anyway. Especially if you just finished off a mob.
Also, who's fault is it for sitting out in the open somewhere alone? Go hide or go in stealth yourself as all characters are able to "hide".
Stealth fits very well to this game. It is a Gamer´s dream to be jumped by a horde of naked stealthbarbies named "Fallenangel", "Angelofdarkness" or "Paris666", and 3 seconds later you are nothing but a bloody puddle.
Your point is moot though, because if they didn't stealth and came up on you, you would be a bloody puddle in three seconds anyway. Especially if you just finished off a mob. Also, who's fault is it for sitting out in the open somewhere alone? Go hide or go in stealth yourself as all characters are able to "hide".
I am thinking more of being forced to run through a bottleneck with a few mates, which appears to be safe, only to find a stealth-zerg there.
It is a Gamer´s dream to be jumped by a horde of naked stealthbarbies named "Fallenangel", "Angelofdarkness" or "Paris666", and 3 seconds later you are nothing but a bloody puddle.
Your point is moot though, because if they didn't stealth and came up on you, you would be a bloody puddle in three seconds anyway. Especially if you just finished off a mob.
Also, who's fault is it for sitting out in the open somewhere alone? Go hide or go in stealth yourself as all characters are able to "hide".
I am thinking more of being forced to run through a bottleneck with a few mates, which appears to be safe, only to find a stealth-zerg there.
Then put points into your perception skill so you can see them.
I guess, this kind of skills generally reaches a few ingame-metres. I don´t know, how it is handled here though.
Only the devs and beta testers know how far it can reach at the moment. We have to continue to remind people who saw the stealth videos at the convention though that the perception skill was NOT in for the convention and thus the reason that nobody saw people stealthing.
Ok you want to have stealth? fine. Make it so a stealth class has no chance to kill another 1 vs 1 .. no chance whatsoever unless they get a jump on someone with low hp. This im an uber ninja crap that most games have as rogue class needs to stop. And dont give me that "everyone can stealth" argument for all i know stealth could be so weak to be completly worthless for say a guardian but an assasin maybe able to stealth right in front of your face in the middle of the desert.. with 10 spotlighs on him. Either take stealth out or make it so that if someone can get a jump on me he should never be able to win if i spot him before he does then we'll see how many roll rogues because they like the concept of the class and not because they are overpowerd in pvp.
WOW, Cry more. This was the funniest post ever. THE BEST player, who happens to have stealth should WIN reguardless of stealth.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
I was just crusing the other game forums, and I hear something that made my ears fall off!!!! Theres a big big MMO comming out around the same time as AoC, (I WONT SAY THE NAME) and it WILL NOT have stealth!! Will Stealth be in AoC? I can't see how a game doesn't have stealth, its part of MMO Culture! I don't plan to play one in AoC because I've played one in every other game i've ever played, but I'd cry if they didn't have it.
DId you hear about GW? it is a great mmo but it dont got stealth cause it can get PVP too unbalanced.
In other way, there was a mod of Neverwinter focused on pvp (ok there were a lot but one concrete that was really good).- BOTD. Battle of the dragons, here, the stealth people isnt too overpowered, except this ones that can hide in sight plan one time and another (shadowdancers). So, all can be controlled, I preffer a game with all kind of effects, stealth, teleport, fly (like CoH) but still balanced so you can play anything, perhaps, the way is to "counter" tactics, so every class/build/player tipe has it chances and the same importance in a team.
I think the idea should be to balance the classes that have advanced stealthing. I find that most people that cry about stealth don't PvP, or well they Don't TRY to PvP. People can't run soon as they see somebody, if well .... THEY DON'T SEE THEM. .
What they did in CoX is to put "detector" or "perception" pluses and put a cap in stealth, I think its not perfect but its a beggining.
WOW, Cry more. This was the funniest post ever. THE BEST player, who happens to have stealth should WIN reguardless of stealth.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Okay, I'm getting real confused now. What exactly are you attempting to communicate here? Cause you've got the answer to your original question.
All you seem to be doing now is stroking your WoW e-Peen with unsubstantiated claims of rogue-greatness. In the Age of Conan forum. The only thing I can possibly imagine you doing that's actually supposed to be here, is... warn everyone that you "may or may not" be a good stealther in AoC as well?
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Stealth generally doesn't work as a concept for one simple reason. Character models do not interactfully fully, with their environment, certainly beyond X,YZ co-ordinates and animation this isnt sent to other clients. In WOW one can stealth in broad daylight as readily as in a dark room or forest. The same effect is your are invisible.. which is not quite what stealth is supposed to be !... and on the flip side your should get bonus in darkened rooms, with low echos and soft floor types. Simply put most MMO's dont model there environment to such a level even in a basic manner. Will AOC do this ? It remains to be seen.
Stealth in WoW is actually quite, quite simplistic (unless we say its an invisibility spell... which even so should stil have detectable parameters, sound, breathing, footsteps, moving grass etc etc...) but again WoW is a simplistic game with a simple play style that suits its younger gamers.
I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Ah...so then your in agreement.....no reason to have stealth in the game, Rogue classes can be completely viable w/o it....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Stealth is imbalanced, the stealther 9 times out of 10 will start the fight. For example in WoW a rogue can stun you, while your are stunned and can't move you are being nuked, by the time you are out of the stun you will be lucky to have half your hp bar left or still be alive. Plate wearers have the only advantage against the stealthers as they can last longer while stunned. In WoW warriors have become the anti-stealthers however most other classes don't stand a chance.
Stealth the way you like it is fine for PvE games but for PvP it's just not good.
IN AOC you will be able to train perception, so you will be able to see them coming, so you can attack first. So it will be balanced.
I had an assassin in Shadowbane who sucked at stealth, but who could dodge VERY well. I played up to my agility with him, depending on my characters ability to dodge more than sneak. I could take on groups of players with that character. I didn't depend on stealth, though I did enjoy the challenge of fighting other people who did.
In DAoC I had a stealther who I quit playing after about level 30 or so. I just enjoyed playing my monk or sorcerer more so, but again, I loved the challenge of being in pvp and worrying about having a stealther sneak up behind me. It gave me more to think about than regular groups rolling over me.
In WoW, I had a rogue I leveled to 40, but focused more on my warlock and hunter. I did enjoy pvp with my rogue, and would've leveled him more had I started playing him first. They have strengths, but they also have huge weaknesses.
What I'm trying to say, I think, with this post, is that I have experienced stealther classes from both ends of the spectrum and love playing with and against them in game.
I don't think I die more against stealthers than any other classes, that is unless I'm not paying attention and walk into an obvious trap set by two or more stealthers just looking to gank. I think in every game, all classes have taken me down, some easier than others. I think it all depends on your equipment (WoW), your skill development (Shadowbane), or both (somewhat DAoC). If you really get tired of getting ganked by stealthers, make a stealther hunter. Seems to me most of these games make it so you're capable of doing just that. If you don't like hunting for people, avoid pvp or hang out with a gang of people (which happened a lot in shadowbane).
I personally enjoy the fact they include diverse characters such as stealthers who can step into the shadows and attack with lethal force. Just whip out the warlock with aoe's and fear, then it'll all be over, or the assasin rogue hunter, or some other toon built to take out stealthers and show them how easy it is to take out a stealther. Be creative in character development and you might have more fun beating out the cookie cutter rogue classes. Only thing I hope they do is avoid making the game all about equipment. I hate that since it is less about skill and all about how much money and equipment you have.
how do you stealth in a mmo anyway? does it really matter?
Whats funny is that it doesn't really matter. The person using a rogue type class ganking others will just use some other method of jumping you if the stealth ability is removed from the game. The results will be the same no matter what happens. I think the real complaint here is people just don't like getting jumped in any form. They blame stealth classes mainly because the class is designed to assassinate and people who like to gank consider that class custom made for their style. No matter what though, if you take away that class, they'll find a way to do it. Running in gangs, setting up traps, or whatever. At least you know what to expect from the person playing a stealther class.
Once in shadowbane, I grouped with a couple other players and spent about 4 hours leveling up and building up equipment and money. I was playing a caster type, I don't recall which one in particular, but after 4 hours of playing with these guys, the berserker tank we had decided to turn around and crush me in a couple blows mainly because I was an easy target. While it was frustrating, I got over it and moved on. I just consider it a casualty for playing a pvp based game. Expect to get ganked, expect to get attacked by people you actually don't know, be paranoid. It's either play like that, or be proactive with pvp and make a character you think can hold their own. Either way, if you play a pvp game or one with pvp in it, chances are, at some point, no matter how much you prepare for it, you will be ganked by a group, stealther or otherwise.
In a way, it all brings a 3rd dimension to pvp in mmo's which makes it more of a challenge.
I always make alot of alts in every mmo i play and ive played a stealth class in all of them except ff11. Giving stealth to a class that doesnt need it to kill is just as wrong as giving heals to a class that doesnt need it to kill/survive. The argument " i could kill you without stealth" only proves it because if stealth was balanced you wouldnt be able to kill someone without it. Some posters are using shadowbane as as argument in favour of stealth i havent played that one maybe it was balanced i dont know but i do know that stealth in general is difficult to implement properly and even if it is it doesnt add much to the game.
I tend to agree with most of what you've said in that giving any class that doesn't need stealth a stealth ability. I do believe that by design, rogue classes definately need it. You may be able to design a rogue class that doesn't need stealth, but in that same way, you can design a warrior class to be dps rather than a meat shield, or a healer to be dps rather than healer oriented. I'm not saying it's the same way with a rogue, I'm just saying that with each class you have options and should play up to them. A lot of people jump on the "the classes are not balanced" bandwagon, but from what I've seen, a lot of those situations depend on how people design their class, either through equipment or skills. I've seen situations where everyone claims a class is weak and yet if you create that class and go alternate routes in picking skills and equipment, you can make that class viable in pvp. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I think a lot of over powered complaints come about when people use standard cookie cutter leveling guides. There's less of an understanding about classes with that method and a whole lot less testing on under used skills.
Ok you want to have stealth? fine. Make it so a stealth class has no chance to kill another 1 vs 1 .. no chance whatsoever unless they get a jump on someone with low hp. This im an uber ninja crap that most games have as rogue class needs to stop. And dont give me that "everyone can stealth" argument for all i know stealth could be so weak to be completly worthless for say a guardian but an assasin maybe able to stealth right in front of your face in the middle of the desert.. with 10 spotlighs on him. Either take stealth out or make it so that if someone can get a jump on me he should never be able to win if i spot him before he does then we'll see how many roll rogues because they like the concept of the class and not because they are overpowerd in pvp.
WOW, Cry more. This was the funniest post ever. THE BEST player, who happens to have stealth should WIN reguardless of stealth.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Stealth is imbalanced, the stealther 9 times out of 10 will start the fight. For example in WoW a rogue can stun you, while your are stunned and can't move you are being nuked, by the time you are out of the stun you will be lucky to have half your hp bar left or still be alive. Plate wearers have the only advantage against the stealthers as they can last longer while stunned. In WoW warriors have become the anti-stealthers however most other classes don't stand a chance.
Stealth the way you like it is fine for PvE games but for PvP it's just not good.
Your wrong my friend. In WoW. Warriors Beat rogues, Warlocks beat rogues, Priests beat rogues, Paladins beat rogues. Basicly Rogues USUALY die to everythint besides other rogues, DUMB hunters, and Mages that arn't smart enough to Frost trap ya, blink away and nuke ya into oblivion. I had a Rogue Warrior and Priest. Rogues don't attack priests, you avoid them, because you'll almost always die, unless the priest is VERY unskilled. Some TWINKED out Rogues beat my warrior, but it was few and far between. Usualy rogues that were spec'd COMBAT, which usualy wasn't the best vs Cloth wearers.
Point being EVERYONE had a good chance of beating rogues. Rogues got that 1 shot to kill you, if they mess up, or your strong enough to survive the first 3 hits, Most classes have something to combat them. Anyone who has fear has a huge advantage over a rogue.
WOW...I was hoping there was more info on stealth in AOC.
First why wouldn't there be some kind of stealth with a rogue. That's what they do sneak around.
Secondly an assassin that can't one shot his intended target given the right preperation isn't a very good assassin.
Thirdly both DAoC and WOW had ways to detect stealth.
Now I don't think you should be invisible or be able to stealth 2 feet in front of your target. If said target looks in your direction they should see you. Stealth needs to be done right be there needs to be a way for rogues to sneak around, move silently and such otherwise they aren't very good and doing what they do best.
No one ever complains when a mage or hunter one shots you. That is alright.
Stealth is unbalanced? LOL. It isn't stealth that will make a game not balanced, it's usually caster vs melee that is unbalanced. Most of the time (my opinion) they aren't counters to each other...casters usually have the leg up.
My opinion is this: You don't like rogues, kill them or don't play them...simple as that.
And to the person that mentioned GW not having stealth, well...the assassin class is by far the weakest class in that game. It was botched since inception. Everything that that class can do...others do it better. Including Solo farming. And as balanced as I would say that game is...The Assassin class has more counters than any. Which is why I say it's the weakest. I however play one just because it's so hard to play and survive.
Someone said make a stealther not be able to win 1v1? Smoking glue my friend? My belief is that if a game is going to have PvP then anyone should be able to beat anyone.
Sorry for the troll, which incidently is what most of this thread is, but I found it funny that many talk crap about this particular mechanic which has been apart of the rogue class since the dawn of the dawn of the dawn where rogues became rogues.
By the way....arguing that it isn't realistic is just a tad bit dumb on your part. Like shooting ice from your hands and freezing someone or even asking someone to do +15 agility to ur gloves is realistic.....lolololololololol. I wish I could learn some necromancy and raise my dead pet willie.
Comments
I'd have no problem with stealthers if what they do took about the same time as the snipers do in their ghillie suits. I like the way that the Forgotten Rrealms games such as Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the others deal with it. If you can be plainly seen you can't stealth. Rather you have to stealth quite a ways away or around a physical barrier where the enemy can not see you. And all the while you're approaching them they all have a chance to hear you, or see through your stealth, or to some extent feel you there with some extra sensory perception. I figure if you're gonna have magic you might as well throw in some ESP while you're at it.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I believe with the skill perception this is their intent, but like Athelan said, it wasn't a working feature in the build we saw at Dragon Con.
I hate stealth classes. I think the only reason games keep implementing them is because there is a whole group of MMO gamers out there that need that crutch. They are unbalanced. Unless they are extremely week against always visible players (actually make them use stealth to survive on a battlefield) than its unbalanced in pvp.
Stealth fits very well in this game.
It is a Gamer´s dream to be jumped by a horde of naked stealthbarbies named "Fallenangel", "Angelofdarkness" or "Paris666", and 3 seconds later you are nothing but a bloody puddle.
Also, who's fault is it for sitting out in the open somewhere alone? Go hide or go in stealth yourself as all characters are able to "hide".
Also, who's fault is it for sitting out in the open somewhere alone? Go hide or go in stealth yourself as all characters are able to "hide".
I am thinking more of being forced to run through a bottleneck with a few mates, which appears to be safe, only to find a stealth-zerg there.
Then put points into your perception skill so you can see them.
I guess, this kind of skills generally reaches a few ingame-metres. I don´t know, how it is handled here though.
Only the devs and beta testers know how far it can reach at the moment. We have to continue to remind people who saw the stealth videos at the convention though that the perception skill was NOT in for the convention and thus the reason that nobody saw people stealthing.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
DId you hear about GW? it is a great mmo but it dont got stealth cause it can get PVP too unbalanced.
In other way, there was a mod of Neverwinter focused on pvp (ok there were a lot but one concrete that was really good).- BOTD. Battle of the dragons, here, the stealth people isnt too overpowered, except this ones that can hide in sight plan one time and another (shadowdancers). So, all can be controlled, I preffer a game with all kind of effects, stealth, teleport, fly (like CoH) but still balanced so you can play anything, perhaps, the way is to "counter" tactics, so every class/build/player tipe has it chances and the same importance in a team.
I think the idea should be to balance the classes that have advanced stealthing. I find that most people that cry about stealth don't PvP, or well they Don't TRY to PvP. People can't run soon as they see somebody, if well .... THEY DON'T SEE THEM. .
What they did in CoX is to put "detector" or "perception" pluses and put a cap in stealth, I think its not perfect but its a beggining.
All you seem to be doing now is stroking your WoW e-Peen with unsubstantiated claims of rogue-greatness. In the Age of Conan forum. The only thing I can possibly imagine you doing that's actually supposed to be here, is... warn everyone that you "may or may not" be a good stealther in AoC as well?
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Stealth generally doesn't work as a concept for one simple reason. Character models do not interactfully fully, with their environment, certainly beyond X,YZ co-ordinates and animation this isnt sent to other clients. In WOW one can stealth in broad daylight as readily as in a dark room or forest. The same effect is your are invisible.. which is not quite what stealth is supposed to be !... and on the flip side your should get bonus in darkened rooms, with low echos and soft floor types. Simply put most MMO's dont model there environment to such a level even in a basic manner. Will AOC do this ? It remains to be seen.
Stealth in WoW is actually quite, quite simplistic (unless we say its an invisibility spell... which even so should stil have detectable parameters, sound, breathing, footsteps, moving grass etc etc...) but again WoW is a simplistic game with a simple play style that suits its younger gamers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I played Shadowbane, DAoC, and WoW.
I had an assassin in Shadowbane who sucked at stealth, but who could dodge VERY well. I played up to my agility with him, depending on my characters ability to dodge more than sneak. I could take on groups of players with that character. I didn't depend on stealth, though I did enjoy the challenge of fighting other people who did.
In DAoC I had a stealther who I quit playing after about level 30 or so. I just enjoyed playing my monk or sorcerer more so, but again, I loved the challenge of being in pvp and worrying about having a stealther sneak up behind me. It gave me more to think about than regular groups rolling over me.
In WoW, I had a rogue I leveled to 40, but focused more on my warlock and hunter. I did enjoy pvp with my rogue, and would've leveled him more had I started playing him first. They have strengths, but they also have huge weaknesses.
What I'm trying to say, I think, with this post, is that I have experienced stealther classes from both ends of the spectrum and love playing with and against them in game.
I don't think I die more against stealthers than any other classes, that is unless I'm not paying attention and walk into an obvious trap set by two or more stealthers just looking to gank. I think in every game, all classes have taken me down, some easier than others. I think it all depends on your equipment (WoW), your skill development (Shadowbane), or both (somewhat DAoC). If you really get tired of getting ganked by stealthers, make a stealther hunter. Seems to me most of these games make it so you're capable of doing just that. If you don't like hunting for people, avoid pvp or hang out with a gang of people (which happened a lot in shadowbane).
I personally enjoy the fact they include diverse characters such as stealthers who can step into the shadows and attack with lethal force. Just whip out the warlock with aoe's and fear, then it'll all be over, or the assasin rogue hunter, or some other toon built to take out stealthers and show them how easy it is to take out a stealther. Be creative in character development and you might have more fun beating out the cookie cutter rogue classes. Only thing I hope they do is avoid making the game all about equipment. I hate that since it is less about skill and all about how much money and equipment you have.
Just my opinion of course.
how do you stealth in a mmo anyway? does it really matter?
Whats funny is that it doesn't really matter. The person using a rogue type class ganking others will just use some other method of jumping you if the stealth ability is removed from the game. The results will be the same no matter what happens. I think the real complaint here is people just don't like getting jumped in any form. They blame stealth classes mainly because the class is designed to assassinate and people who like to gank consider that class custom made for their style. No matter what though, if you take away that class, they'll find a way to do it. Running in gangs, setting up traps, or whatever. At least you know what to expect from the person playing a stealther class.
Once in shadowbane, I grouped with a couple other players and spent about 4 hours leveling up and building up equipment and money. I was playing a caster type, I don't recall which one in particular, but after 4 hours of playing with these guys, the berserker tank we had decided to turn around and crush me in a couple blows mainly because I was an easy target. While it was frustrating, I got over it and moved on. I just consider it a casualty for playing a pvp based game. Expect to get ganked, expect to get attacked by people you actually don't know, be paranoid. It's either play like that, or be proactive with pvp and make a character you think can hold their own. Either way, if you play a pvp game or one with pvp in it, chances are, at some point, no matter how much you prepare for it, you will be ganked by a group, stealther or otherwise.
In a way, it all brings a 3rd dimension to pvp in mmo's which makes it more of a challenge.
I tend to agree with most of what you've said in that giving any class that doesn't need stealth a stealth ability. I do believe that by design, rogue classes definately need it. You may be able to design a rogue class that doesn't need stealth, but in that same way, you can design a warrior class to be dps rather than a meat shield, or a healer to be dps rather than healer oriented. I'm not saying it's the same way with a rogue, I'm just saying that with each class you have options and should play up to them. A lot of people jump on the "the classes are not balanced" bandwagon, but from what I've seen, a lot of those situations depend on how people design their class, either through equipment or skills. I've seen situations where everyone claims a class is weak and yet if you create that class and go alternate routes in picking skills and equipment, you can make that class viable in pvp. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I think a lot of over powered complaints come about when people use standard cookie cutter leveling guides. There's less of an understanding about classes with that method and a whole lot less testing on under used skills.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Stealth is imbalanced, the stealther 9 times out of 10 will start the fight. For example in WoW a rogue can stun you, while your are stunned and can't move you are being nuked, by the time you are out of the stun you will be lucky to have half your hp bar left or still be alive. Plate wearers have the only advantage against the stealthers as they can last longer while stunned. In WoW warriors have become the anti-stealthers however most other classes don't stand a chance.Stealth the way you like it is fine for PvE games but for PvP it's just not good.
Your wrong my friend. In WoW. Warriors Beat rogues, Warlocks beat rogues, Priests beat rogues, Paladins beat rogues. Basicly Rogues USUALY die to everythint besides other rogues, DUMB hunters, and Mages that arn't smart enough to Frost trap ya, blink away and nuke ya into oblivion. I had a Rogue Warrior and Priest. Rogues don't attack priests, you avoid them, because you'll almost always die, unless the priest is VERY unskilled. Some TWINKED out Rogues beat my warrior, but it was few and far between. Usualy rogues that were spec'd COMBAT, which usualy wasn't the best vs Cloth wearers.
Point being EVERYONE had a good chance of beating rogues. Rogues got that 1 shot to kill you, if they mess up, or your strong enough to survive the first 3 hits, Most classes have something to combat them. Anyone who has fear has a huge advantage over a rogue.
WOW...I was hoping there was more info on stealth in AOC.
First why wouldn't there be some kind of stealth with a rogue. That's what they do sneak around.
Secondly an assassin that can't one shot his intended target given the right preperation isn't a very good assassin.
Thirdly both DAoC and WOW had ways to detect stealth.
Now I don't think you should be invisible or be able to stealth 2 feet in front of your target. If said target looks in your direction they should see you. Stealth needs to be done right be there needs to be a way for rogues to sneak around, move silently and such otherwise they aren't very good and doing what they do best.
No one ever complains when a mage or hunter one shots you. That is alright.
Stealth is unbalanced? LOL. It isn't stealth that will make a game not balanced, it's usually caster vs melee that is unbalanced. Most of the time (my opinion) they aren't counters to each other...casters usually have the leg up.
My opinion is this: You don't like rogues, kill them or don't play them...simple as that.
And to the person that mentioned GW not having stealth, well...the assassin class is by far the weakest class in that game. It was botched since inception. Everything that that class can do...others do it better. Including Solo farming. And as balanced as I would say that game is...The Assassin class has more counters than any. Which is why I say it's the weakest.
I however play one just because it's so hard to play and survive.
Someone said make a stealther not be able to win 1v1? Smoking glue my friend? My belief is that if a game is going to have PvP then anyone should be able to beat anyone.
Sorry for the troll, which incidently is what most of this thread is, but I found it funny that many talk crap about this particular mechanic which has been apart of the rogue class since the dawn of the dawn of the dawn where rogues became rogues.
By the way....arguing that it isn't realistic is just a tad bit dumb on your part. Like shooting ice from your hands and freezing someone or even asking someone to do +15 agility to ur gloves is realistic.....lolololololololol. I wish I could learn some necromancy and raise my dead pet willie.