re: "realism" - true BUt its a relative term and maybe it would be better to say Internally Consistent?
As I see it - the whole point; from back when "rogues" were still THIEVES; was they were given the "backstab" ability -
this - and critical hits - were both meant to represent that highHit Points - which were never meant to represent the ability to be unaffected by massive damage but rather the ability to avoid most of it - a well-meant abstraction like most of the old rules like "armor making you harder to hit"-- could be offset by conditions that opened even an experienced combatant to lethal attacks like the rest of us -
the point really was the it was never meant to mean that a sword couldnt gut an experienced fighter - this was actually spelled out in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's handbook by the very man who had originally CREATED this particular bugaboo by assigning "hero" figures 4 hits
but that's not exactly here nor there. i said elsewhere that the Conan IP is one rather hostile to the now-mainstay of fantasy games that characters become superheroic juggernauts nigh-invincible to damage...
In this context stealth is closely tied to the idea of BackStabs...
It's difficult to stop someone ramming a sword thru your liver if you don't know they're there...
The AoC movie shows an attempt at stealth.. and a "perception" check. maybe thats how it would actually work that way - i'd like to see it.
And if I may risk even more of a flaming; I thought the DDO stealth engine was rather impressive for an MMO- i hope we can at least see that exceeded; rather than taking astep backwards.
And if I may risk even more of a flaming; I thought the DDO stealth engine was rather impressive for an MMO- i hope we can at least see that exceeded; rather than taking astep backwards.
I FLAME YOU I FLAME YOU...!!!!1111
Actually your right. I've got my hanky out and I'm crying right now because this was one aspect of DDO which was great.
Ok you want to have stealth? fine. Make it so a stealth class has no chance to kill another 1 vs 1 .. no chance whatsoever unless they get a jump on someone with low hp. This im an uber ninja crap that most games have as rogue class needs to stop. And dont give me that "everyone can stealth" argument for all i know stealth could be so weak to be completly worthless for say a guardian but an assasin maybe able to stealth right in front of your face in the middle of the desert.. with 10 spotlighs on him. Either take stealth out or make it so that if someone can get a jump on me he should never be able to win if i spot him before he does then we'll see how many roll rogues because they like the concept of the class and not because they are overpowerd in pvp.
WOW, Cry more. This was the funniest post ever. THE BEST player, who happens to have stealth should WIN reguardless of stealth.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Stealth is imbalanced, the stealther 9 times out of 10 will start the fight. For example in WoW a rogue can stun you, while your are stunned and can't move you are being nuked, by the time you are out of the stun you will be lucky to have half your hp bar left or still be alive. Plate wearers have the only advantage against the stealthers as they can last longer while stunned. In WoW warriors have become the anti-stealthers however most other classes don't stand a chance.
Stealth the way you like it is fine for PvE games but for PvP it's just not good.
Your wrong my friend. In WoW. Warriors Beat rogues, Warlocks beat rogues, Priests beat rogues, Paladins beat rogues. Basicly Rogues USUALY die to everythint besides other rogues, DUMB hunters, and Mages that arn't smart enough to Frost trap ya, blink away and nuke ya into oblivion. I had a Rogue Warrior and Priest. Rogues don't attack priests, you avoid them, because you'll almost always die, unless the priest is VERY unskilled. Some TWINKED out Rogues beat my warrior, but it was few and far between. Usualy rogues that were spec'd COMBAT, which usualy wasn't the best vs Cloth wearers.
Point being EVERYONE had a good chance of beating rogues. Rogues got that 1 shot to kill you, if they mess up, or your strong enough to survive the first 3 hits, Most classes have something to combat them. Anyone who has fear has a huge advantage over a rogue.
Maybe with PvE specced rogues but a rogue specced PvP maces will destroy most classes bar warrior and paladin.
When was the last time you played? Befor X-Realm ?? I'd agree back then, because My rogue was Mace/Combat, and was particularly incredible. They didn't nerf rogues, but they redid Hunters, Warlocks, and Priests. Those 3 classes can easily kill a rogue. Shadow Priests are actualy by far the best at killing a rogue, specialy if they are smart enough to know how to fight a rogue. As my shadow Priest, I'd let any rogue attack me without trying to find him, which I could always do, with human as they have a perception skill, and I'd still kill him. With fourt, and their shiled, and inner fire even their best attack with all their timers, wouldn't take me down befor I could fear em off, Dot em, nuke em, they'd get back to me, and fear away again and they'd die. Now if they resisted my fear it'd take 8 seconds longer but, no rogue kills a good shadow priest.
but that's not exactly here nor there. i said elsewhere that the Conan IP is one rather hostile to the now-mainstay of fantasy games that characters become superheroic juggernauts nigh-invincible to damage...
Actually in Conan lore, pretty much all mages, and scions of Set were "juggernauts nigh-invincible to damage". e.g.'The Scarlet Citadel'. This is making me mad at FunCom because they say that they're staying true to Conan lore, but just the inclusion of Mages goes against the lore. Honestly, there were of Mages tops. Pretty much everyone in Conan was a warrior or a rouge, and Priests didn't call down the judgment of thier gods through spells and the like. They were everyday priests, it worked a lot like ancient Rome, each town had a temple to some of the local gods, and the priests prayed to them and asked them for guidance. Oh and thirdly, the Conan IP is not all that dark, sure it has it's moments, but it has more of a feudal corruption, where all the demons are in the background. Where the only proof of them is rumors and the odd disapearance of somebody who badmouthed the local villain. Which again there were only like 2-4 per country (with the exception of Stygia). So AoC is going to be a developers take on what would make a Conan game sell, while still being within the constraints of the Conan IP.
Originally posted by Remali Balance or not the point is that not that many ppl are going to be upset because of the lack of stealth in "that other mmo". In some mmos its balanced in others not so much. Wow wasnt the first and/or only mmo that has it you know :P I dont think its worth the effort of putting it in the game and trying to balance it with the risk of being OP or worthless i just dont think it adds much to the general gameplay thats my opinion though. As far as AOC is concerned i get the impression that both barbarian and ranger dont really need it so i dont see why they should be able to stealth better than say a guardian.
You can't say for sure no one will be upset, why? Because you can't know for sure and it's probably your view on the subject that makes you say something like that. Opinion not fact. Just like it is my opinion that if they have a rogue type class that doesn't play like one, what was the freaking point? Not saying that stealth is needed, but it should probably play like a rogue and not a warrior or tank in general.
If that's the case....just have two classes----Warrior and a Caster. Better yet....get rid of the warrior because I'm sure they are tired of being the caster's protection in pve, and the caster's bitch in pvp.
As far as it being OP, um these games that have had stealth imo haven't had the stealther be over powered or worthless, but somewhere right down the middle. My opinion about your opinion that states that you don't think it adds much to the general gameplay...is well, um, dumb. Of course it adds to general gameplay. People use it right? It must add something right? It adds another dynamic to the overall gameplay. It effects not only the user, but everyone else surrounding the user such as like pvp where you have to be on guard because the potential for being surprised is there.
am i mis-recalling or were not the priests of set actually mages (or vice versa?)
and "dammit" now i have to find and re-read that story...lol
but i really meant non-supernatural folks - without some weird magic going; most people really don't appreciate sharp/pointy things being shoved through them.
Well the way I see it is like a previous poster here said, rogue and thief types were originally set for backstabbing type ways and stealing from you. This becomes pretty difficult if not impossible to do without being detected prematurely with the way that the current third person style of view works in most mmos, hence the need for stealth.
If however mmos went fully to first person only view where you are looking through the eyes of your character, I can see stealth, rather than making you invisible, only reducing your audible footsteps and such working better. That way a person could still sneak up on you but it maintains a more realistic feel to it in that if the person turns around and sees you, you are caught. Makes more sense than going invisible and at the same time still provides the same sort of benefit.
Of course this opens up a whole new can of worms for people since most people prefer not to play mmos in first person and instead prefer a third person over the shoulder type of view. Makes it much more difficult for groups and raids as well and introduces line of sight requirements for things such as spells.
But hey, people are complaining stealth isn't realistic, so why shouldn't everything else need the same sort of stipulations?
Originally posted by Remali Balance or not the point is that not that many ppl are going to be upset because of the lack of stealth in "that other mmo". In some mmos its balanced in others not so much. Wow wasnt the first and/or only mmo that has it you know :P I dont think its worth the effort of putting it in the game and trying to balance it with the risk of being OP or worthless i just dont think it adds much to the general gameplay thats my opinion though. As far as AOC is concerned i get the impression that both barbarian and ranger dont really need it so i dont see why they should be able to stealth better than say a guardian.
You can't say for sure no one will be upset, why? Because you can't know for sure and it's probably your view on the subject that makes you say something like that. Opinion not fact. Just like it is my opinion that if they have a rogue type class that doesn't play like one, what was the freaking point? Not saying that stealth is needed, but it should probably play like a rogue and not a warrior or tank in general. If that's the case....just have two classes----Warrior and a Caster. Better yet....get rid of the warrior because I'm sure they are tired of being the caster's protection in pve, and the caster's bitch in pvp. As far as it being OP, um these games that have had stealth imo haven't had the stealther be over powered or worthless, but somewhere right down the middle. My opinion about your opinion that states that you don't think it adds much to the general gameplay...is well, um, dumb. Of course it adds to general gameplay. People use it right? It must add something right? It adds another dynamic to the overall gameplay. It effects not only the user, but everyone else surrounding the user such as like pvp where you have to be on guard because the potential for being surprised is there.
I didnt say no one will be upset for sure i said not that many people are going to be upset. Not here and from what i can see not in the war forums either most seem to prefer leaving stealth out. So learn2read the stuff you quote. From the rest of your post i get the impression that your mmo experience starts and ends on the wow rogue. If that is the case i suggest trying some more mmos or at least checking their forums to see how stealth can be OP or worthless from game to game...or even patch to patch
L2R? where did you say anything about where you may have gotton the idea that some may not want the stealth mechanism? You didn't say anything about forums and such in the post I was responding to. Still, you use the word many as if you can foresee the future or speak for others than yourself. This thread alone by my count has the fors above the nays.
And no matter what your impression is about me playing wow(only for the past 2 months because near and dear friends happen to be playing)....your acting like it's a terrible game. I have played many mmo's, many classes within those mmo's and liked the majority of them, although I much rather play mmo's that are skill based without the classes. I like the stealth mechanism in alot of these fantasy mmo's because it makes feel like a rogue. It enhances my general gameplay by adding versatility. Undetectability and backstab is as stated before is and was the basis for creation of this class in the beginning. THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE ROGUE CLASS.
I don't know how you could even infer that I was a wow player(as of this month, may change next month). I never said anything that specifically relates to WoW. Could it be you took a look at my x-fire sig instead of reading what I wrote? Probably. Makes you look like a dumb ass imo.
Everyone in Conan can train in the ability to hide themselves, and to detect hidden.
Rogues will move more quickly while hidden, and this system checks shadows so we can restrict where you can enter being hidden as well.
Good, hopefully no more strolling through the plains where there are no trees or high grass and a 'rogue' stabs me to death. Becoming less visible in a tree line or other wooded areas is just fine. Although a stealth class is one of the more popular classes in any MMO, most people who play them are cowards not wanting any real PvP but only to gank lower level characters to make themselves feel better. When they are unable to 'gank' or its an even fight they flee, removing the BS stealth classes encourages more massive PvP battles.
Everyone in Conan can train in the ability to hide themselves, and to detect hidden.
Rogues will move more quickly while hidden, and this system checks shadows so we can restrict where you can enter being hidden as well.
Good, hopefully no more strolling through the plains where there are no trees or high grass and a 'rogue' stabs me to death. Becoming less visible in a tree line or other wooded areas is just fine. Although a stealth class is one of the more popular classes in any MMO, most people who play them are cowards not wanting any real PvP but only to gank lower level characters to make themselves feel better. When they are unable to 'gank' or its an even fight they flee, removing the BS stealth classes encourages more massive PvP battles.
I think there is a reason for the so-called "cowardness" tho: Being able to close the distance between them and their caster targets before they are spiked is a lose/lose. Also armor usually isn't up to snuff to toe to toe a warrior. Hit and run. Can't reach....run.
But as I have stated in other post, speaking for why "most" play them irritates me. You call them cowards because you view them as such. Not because they are. That's like me saying that most ppl play healers because they are afraid of any real confrontation or that ppl roll warriors because they lack complex brain functionality.
"OOH, dumb war", "Can't handle the perceived complexity of being a caster whose armor is low but magic is high so I have to actually ....shhhhhh, make you think that I think and push my little buttons to stay alive because I know the cool downs and can calculate damage that your going to receive completely forgetting the fact that it may actually also take a brain to do the same thing with buttons on your warrior character". "SUPER BAD".
All I'm saying that if your not gonna have versatility between what a rogue can do and what a war can do, why even have a rogue type class? What, so you can dual wield some daggers with lower armor? Personally that's why I think class based systems suck, my own opinion. God I hate trolling, but that's all these forums seem to produce anyways.
Balance or not the point is that not that many ppl are going to be upset because of the lack of stealth in "that other mmo". In some mmos its balanced in others not so much. Wow wasnt the first and/or only mmo that has it you know :P I dont think its worth the effort of putting it in the game and trying to balance it with the risk of being OP or worthless i just dont think it adds much to the general gameplay thats my opinion though.
As far as AOC is concerned i get the impression that both barbarian and ranger dont really need it so i dont see why they should be able to stealth better than say a guardian.
You can't say for sure no one will be upset, why? Because you can't know for sure and it's probably your view on the subject that makes you say something like that. Opinion not fact.
Just like it is my opinion that if they have a rogue type class that doesn't play like one, what was the freaking point? Not saying that stealth is needed, but it should probably play like a rogue and not a warrior or tank in general.
If that's the case....just have two classes----Warrior and a Caster. Better yet....get rid of the warrior because I'm sure they are tired of being the caster's protection in pve, and the caster's bitch in pvp.
As far as it being OP, um these games that have had stealth imo haven't had the stealther be over powered or worthless, but somewhere right down the middle. My opinion about your opinion that states that you don't think it adds much to the general gameplay...is well, um, dumb. Of course it adds to general gameplay. People use it right? It must add something right? It adds another dynamic to the overall gameplay. It effects not only the user, but everyone else surrounding the user such as like pvp where you have to be on guard because the potential for being surprised is there.
I didnt say no one will be upset for sure i said not that many people are going to be upset. Not here and from what i can see not in the war forums either most seem to prefer leaving stealth out. So learn2read the stuff you quote. From the rest of your post i get the impression that your mmo experience starts and ends on the wow rogue. If that is the case i suggest trying some more mmos or at least checking their forums to see how stealth can be OP or worthless from game to game...or even patch to patch
WoW what a totaly patetic attempt to bash, and Troll. Your kidding yourself if you think MORE people would be happy about leaving stealth out. Only people whoCRY more, are typicaly more vocal. I'm not trying to insult you, but being totaly honest with my oppinion. People don't talk about things their content with, but rather talk about things they dislike. In a VAST majority of games rogues are the most popular class. I'm using WoW as an example because WoW has more subscribers then every other MMO combined. So can 9 million people be wrong? SOrry you got insulted by your vastly outdated informations on the rogue class in WoW.
Stealth doesn't make somebody too powerful. Almost every game, will have people like yourself saying "NERF THIS CLASS" "MY CLASS NEEDS LOVE" However you never see people saying "I NEED PRACTICE, I'M SUCKY AT PVP" but the ladder is typicaly the case.
When people are beat, they refuse to accept the fact that with 4000 people to fight, there will be hundreds that will beat you, and beat you consistantly. Everyone assumes that they should be dominant because they...... ... .. WILL IT???? Sorry, your not Jesus. You'll have to settle for practicing, and still only being better then some, NEVER all.
Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Going by the latest video of the "stealth" class, you can indeed go into stealth, and it's indeed invisible-type stealth. Though they did say that your surrounding would effect how invisible you were able to be. An unnecessary aspect in MMOs. Hopefully it will be done away with in the upcoming MMOs. Real stealth is sneaking around unnoticed without having to turn into the predator.
How exactly would you sneak around unnoticed with a big colored name tag over your head if you weren't fully invisable, now I would be all for making stealth transparent based on your surroundings but still you would have to remove that name tag which make stealth pretty tricky.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
10% of 4300 people poll'd on the official forums want to play assassin, im sure stealth has something to do with that. Infact 32% of the amount of people poll'd so far want to play a rogue class.
Personally im not one of them, nor am I interested in creeping up on people in a cheap way. I dont have any problem with people who prefer to fight like that either.
In a game like AoC where it looks like player skill has more of an effect in combat, im all for anyone trying to try and stab me in the back (just gimmie a few weeks to learn first) !
Bring it on nasty stealthers!
edit* im sure name tags can be removed. lay of the land has an effect and auto targetted spells don't follow people around! Manual aim!
Going by the latest video of the "stealth" class, you can indeed go into stealth, and it's indeed invisible-type stealth. Though they did say that your surrounding would effect how invisible you were able to be. An unnecessary aspect in MMOs. Hopefully it will be done away with in the upcoming MMOs. Real stealth is sneaking around unnoticed without having to turn into the predator.
How exactly would you sneak around unnoticed with a big colored name tag over your head if you weren't fully invisable, now I would be all for making stealth transparent based on your surroundings but still you would have to remove that name tag which make stealth pretty tricky.
You would have to mouse over a far away target to see the name and health.
Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Like i said, Whiners, Whine. Look at the MILLIONS of people who are CURRENTLY playing charactors with stealth.
One hand we have Millions of people who play them, on the other 30 active whiners. I think those numbers indeed stand for themselves. Thanks for pointing it out.
Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
I agree with that but my point was that there isnt going to be a massive uproar if stealth is removed. Do it right or not at all is what i say and by right i mean something like splinter cell of other stealth based single player games
Your so out of touch with reality, that reasoning will be nearly impossible. If AoC removed stealth, it would almost certainly spawn countless threads with almost the same name, "AoC ruined by removal of Stealth" I'M not IMPLYING that removeing stealth would ruin the game, but rather that people would be crying that it did. There are atleast 10,000 people for Stealth for every 1 thats against. There are over a Million rogues charators in MMO games right now, many people love to play them.
Making an MMO with the same type of Stealth as a FPS would be impossible. How a programmed NPC reacts to variables is totaly different then how a Player would react. Now making it more intuitive is very possible, and AoC has already done this. Charactors stealth will be harder to be seen through given "shadows" and possibly even impossible to hide, in perfectly lit areas.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will be killed by rogues. You can say its beause stealth isn't fair, or move on and get revenge, but you will have to deal with it.
Stealth was put into AOC as a means of setting up some cool raiding, and bandit type situations. The fact that all classes will have access to it to a degree will allow some fun and realistic ambush situations. With areas of vastly different types of terrain to hide in it should make for some great fun. Caravan raiding comes to mind. There will be a chance to be detected as in real life when you have a chance to be seen when hiding. Some classes will have better stealth, i.e. assassins, and they will be able to get closer and serve as scouts. Meanwhile, a caster can remain hidden further back and not blow the entire raid with a big billboard above his head declaring his name and guild preference. It should be fun and add another unique type of game play to AOC.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by kujii
Stealth was put into AOC as a means of setting up some cool raiding, and bandit type situations. The fact that all classes will have access to it to a degree will allow some fun and realistic ambush situations. With areas of vastly different types of terrain to hide in it should make for some great fun. Caravan raiding comes to mind. There will be a chance to be detected as in real life when you have a chance to be seen when hiding. Some classes will have better stealth, i.e. assassins, and they will be able to get closer and serve as scouts. Meanwhile, a caster can remain hidden further back and not blow the entire raid with a big billboard above his head declaring his name and guild preference. It should be fun and add another unique type of game play to AOC.
Well said, as much as I am not keen on playing a stealth type of character, I can't ignore the fact that they can add to the enjoyment more especially on a tactical scale in the game. The benefits outweigh the negatives if its implemented correctly and fairly. Judging from whats been said on the forums and at the conventions this year, it certainly looks they are taking people concerns on a professional level.
Comments
LOL... alas poor willie...
re: "realism" - true BUt its a relative term and maybe it would be better to say Internally Consistent?
As I see it - the whole point; from back when "rogues" were still THIEVES; was they were given the "backstab" ability -
this - and critical hits - were both meant to represent that high Hit Points - which were never meant to represent the ability to be unaffected by massive damage but rather the ability to avoid most of it - a well-meant abstraction like most of the old rules like "armor making you harder to hit"-- could be offset by conditions that opened even an experienced combatant to lethal attacks like the rest of us -
the point really was the it was never meant to mean that a sword couldnt gut an experienced fighter - this was actually spelled out in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's handbook by the very man who had originally CREATED this particular bugaboo by assigning "hero" figures 4 hits
but that's not exactly here nor there. i said elsewhere that the Conan IP is one rather hostile to the now-mainstay of fantasy games that characters become superheroic juggernauts nigh-invincible to damage...
In this context stealth is closely tied to the idea of BackStabs...
It's difficult to stop someone ramming a sword thru your liver if you don't know they're there...
The AoC movie shows an attempt at stealth.. and a "perception" check. maybe thats how it would actually work that way - i'd like to see it.
And if I may risk even more of a flaming; I thought the DDO stealth engine was rather impressive for an MMO- i hope we can at least see that exceeded; rather than taking astep backwards.
Actually your right. I've got my hanky out and I'm crying right now because this was one aspect of DDO which was great.
People automaticly assume that they died because the player had stealth. When I was dueling constantly with my rogue, back in WoW, I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Stealth is imbalanced, the stealther 9 times out of 10 will start the fight. For example in WoW a rogue can stun you, while your are stunned and can't move you are being nuked, by the time you are out of the stun you will be lucky to have half your hp bar left or still be alive. Plate wearers have the only advantage against the stealthers as they can last longer while stunned. In WoW warriors have become the anti-stealthers however most other classes don't stand a chance.Stealth the way you like it is fine for PvE games but for PvP it's just not good.
Your wrong my friend. In WoW. Warriors Beat rogues, Warlocks beat rogues, Priests beat rogues, Paladins beat rogues. Basicly Rogues USUALY die to everythint besides other rogues, DUMB hunters, and Mages that arn't smart enough to Frost trap ya, blink away and nuke ya into oblivion. I had a Rogue Warrior and Priest. Rogues don't attack priests, you avoid them, because you'll almost always die, unless the priest is VERY unskilled. Some TWINKED out Rogues beat my warrior, but it was few and far between. Usualy rogues that were spec'd COMBAT, which usualy wasn't the best vs Cloth wearers.
Point being EVERYONE had a good chance of beating rogues. Rogues got that 1 shot to kill you, if they mess up, or your strong enough to survive the first 3 hits, Most classes have something to combat them. Anyone who has fear has a huge advantage over a rogue.
Maybe with PvE specced rogues but a rogue specced PvP maces will destroy most classes bar warrior and paladin.
When was the last time you played? Befor X-Realm ?? I'd agree back then, because My rogue was Mace/Combat, and was particularly incredible. They didn't nerf rogues, but they redid Hunters, Warlocks, and Priests. Those 3 classes can easily kill a rogue. Shadow Priests are actualy by far the best at killing a rogue, specialy if they are smart enough to know how to fight a rogue. As my shadow Priest, I'd let any rogue attack me without trying to find him, which I could always do, with human as they have a perception skill, and I'd still kill him. With fourt, and their shiled, and inner fire even their best attack with all their timers, wouldn't take me down befor I could fear em off, Dot em, nuke em, they'd get back to me, and fear away again and they'd die. Now if they resisted my fear it'd take 8 seconds longer but, no rogue kills a good shadow priest.
Actually in Conan lore, pretty much all mages, and scions of Set were "juggernauts nigh-invincible to damage". e.g.'The Scarlet Citadel'. This is making me mad at FunCom because they say that they're staying true to Conan lore, but just the inclusion of Mages goes against the lore. Honestly, there were of Mages tops. Pretty much everyone in Conan was a warrior or a rouge, and Priests didn't call down the judgment of thier gods through spells and the like. They were everyday priests, it worked a lot like ancient Rome, each town had a temple to some of the local gods, and the priests prayed to them and asked them for guidance. Oh and thirdly, the Conan IP is not all that dark, sure it has it's moments, but it has more of a feudal corruption, where all the demons are in the background. Where the only proof of them is rumors and the odd disapearance of somebody who badmouthed the local villain. Which again there were only like 2-4 per country (with the exception of Stygia). So AoC is going to be a developers take on what would make a Conan game sell, while still being within the constraints of the Conan IP.
You can't say for sure no one will be upset, why? Because you can't know for sure and it's probably your view on the subject that makes you say something like that. Opinion not fact.
Just like it is my opinion that if they have a rogue type class that doesn't play like one, what was the freaking point? Not saying that stealth is needed, but it should probably play like a rogue and not a warrior or tank in general.
If that's the case....just have two classes----Warrior and a Caster. Better yet....get rid of the warrior because I'm sure they are tired of being the caster's protection in pve, and the caster's bitch in pvp.
As far as it being OP, um these games that have had stealth imo haven't had the stealther be over powered or worthless, but somewhere right down the middle. My opinion about your opinion that states that you don't think it adds much to the general gameplay...is well, um, dumb. Of course it adds to general gameplay. People use it right? It must add something right? It adds another dynamic to the overall gameplay. It effects not only the user, but everyone else surrounding the user such as like pvp where you have to be on guard because the potential for being surprised is there.
am i mis-recalling or were not the priests of set actually mages (or vice versa?)
and "dammit" now i have to find and re-read that story...lol
but i really meant non-supernatural folks - without some weird magic going; most people really don't appreciate sharp/pointy things being shoved through them.
Well the way I see it is like a previous poster here said, rogue and thief types were originally set for backstabbing type ways and stealing from you. This becomes pretty difficult if not impossible to do without being detected prematurely with the way that the current third person style of view works in most mmos, hence the need for stealth.
If however mmos went fully to first person only view where you are looking through the eyes of your character, I can see stealth, rather than making you invisible, only reducing your audible footsteps and such working better. That way a person could still sneak up on you but it maintains a more realistic feel to it in that if the person turns around and sees you, you are caught. Makes more sense than going invisible and at the same time still provides the same sort of benefit.
Of course this opens up a whole new can of worms for people since most people prefer not to play mmos in first person and instead prefer a third person over the shoulder type of view. Makes it much more difficult for groups and raids as well and introduces line of sight requirements for things such as spells.
But hey, people are complaining stealth isn't realistic, so why shouldn't everything else need the same sort of stipulations?
Everyone in Conan can train in the ability to hide themselves, and to detect hidden.
Rogues will move more quickly while hidden, and this system checks shadows so we can restrict where you can enter being hidden as well.
Combat, Control, Class Distinction Designer for Age of Conan
community.ageofconan.com
And no matter what your impression is about me playing wow(only for the past 2 months because near and dear friends happen to be playing)....your acting like it's a terrible game. I have played many mmo's, many classes within those mmo's and liked the majority of them, although I much rather play mmo's that are skill based without the classes. I like the stealth mechanism in alot of these fantasy mmo's because it makes feel like a rogue. It enhances my general gameplay by adding versatility. Undetectability and backstab is as stated before is and was the basis for creation of this class in the beginning. THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE ROGUE CLASS.
I don't know how you could even infer that I was a wow player(as of this month, may change next month). I never said anything that specifically relates to WoW. Could it be you took a look at my x-fire sig instead of reading what I wrote? Probably. Makes you look like a dumb ass imo.
Good, hopefully no more strolling through the plains where there are no trees or high grass and a 'rogue' stabs me to death. Becoming less visible in a tree line or other wooded areas is just fine. Although a stealth class is one of the more popular classes in any MMO, most people who play them are cowards not wanting any real PvP but only to gank lower level characters to make themselves feel better. When they are unable to 'gank' or its an even fight they flee, removing the BS stealth classes encourages more massive PvP battles.
But as I have stated in other post, speaking for why "most" play them irritates me. You call them cowards because you view them as such. Not because they are. That's like me saying that most ppl play healers because they are afraid of any real confrontation or that ppl roll warriors because they lack complex brain functionality.
"OOH, dumb war", "Can't handle the perceived complexity of being a caster whose armor is low but magic is high so I have to actually ....shhhhhh, make you think that I think and push my little buttons to stay alive because I know the cool downs and can calculate damage that your going to receive completely forgetting the fact that it may actually also take a brain to do the same thing with buttons on your warrior character". "SUPER BAD".
All I'm saying that if your not gonna have versatility between what a rogue can do and what a war can do, why even have a rogue type class? What, so you can dual wield some daggers with lower armor? Personally that's why I think class based systems suck, my own opinion. God I hate trolling, but that's all these forums seem to produce anyways.
You can't say for sure no one will be upset, why? Because you can't know for sure and it's probably your view on the subject that makes you say something like that. Opinion not fact.
Just like it is my opinion that if they have a rogue type class that doesn't play like one, what was the freaking point? Not saying that stealth is needed, but it should probably play like a rogue and not a warrior or tank in general.
If that's the case....just have two classes----Warrior and a Caster. Better yet....get rid of the warrior because I'm sure they are tired of being the caster's protection in pve, and the caster's bitch in pvp.
As far as it being OP, um these games that have had stealth imo haven't had the stealther be over powered or worthless, but somewhere right down the middle. My opinion about your opinion that states that you don't think it adds much to the general gameplay...is well, um, dumb. Of course it adds to general gameplay. People use it right? It must add something right? It adds another dynamic to the overall gameplay. It effects not only the user, but everyone else surrounding the user such as like pvp where you have to be on guard because the potential for being surprised is there.
I didnt say no one will be upset for sure i said not that many people are going to be upset. Not here and from what i can see not in the war forums either most seem to prefer leaving stealth out. So learn2read the stuff you quote. From the rest of your post i get the impression that your mmo experience starts and ends on the wow rogue. If that is the case i suggest trying some more mmos or at least checking their forums to see how stealth can be OP or worthless from game to game...or even patch to patch
WoW what a totaly patetic attempt to bash, and Troll. Your kidding yourself if you think MORE people would be happy about leaving stealth out. Only people whoCRY more, are typicaly more vocal. I'm not trying to insult you, but being totaly honest with my oppinion. People don't talk about things their content with, but rather talk about things they dislike. In a VAST majority of games rogues are the most popular class. I'm using WoW as an example because WoW has more subscribers then every other MMO combined. So can 9 million people be wrong? SOrry you got insulted by your vastly outdated informations on the rogue class in WoW.
Stealth doesn't make somebody too powerful. Almost every game, will have people like yourself saying "NERF THIS CLASS" "MY CLASS NEEDS LOVE" However you never see people saying "I NEED PRACTICE, I'M SUCKY AT PVP" but the ladder is typicaly the case.
When people are beat, they refuse to accept the fact that with 4000 people to fight, there will be hundreds that will beat you, and beat you consistantly. Everyone assumes that they should be dominant because they...... ... .. WILL IT???? Sorry, your not Jesus. You'll have to settle for practicing, and still only being better then some, NEVER all.
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
How exactly would you sneak around unnoticed with a big colored name tag over your head if you weren't fully invisable, now I would be all for making stealth transparent based on your surroundings but still you would have to remove that name tag which make stealth pretty tricky.
10% of 4300 people poll'd on the official forums want to play assassin, im sure stealth has something to do with that. Infact 32% of the amount of people poll'd so far want to play a rogue class.
Personally im not one of them, nor am I interested in creeping up on people in a cheap way. I dont have any problem with people who prefer to fight like that either.
In a game like AoC where it looks like player skill has more of an effect in combat, im all for anyone trying to try and stab me in the back (just gimmie a few weeks to learn first) !
Bring it on nasty stealthers!
edit* im sure name tags can be removed. lay of the land has an effect and auto targetted spells don't follow people around! Manual aim!
How exactly would you sneak around unnoticed with a big colored name tag over your head if you weren't fully invisable, now I would be all for making stealth transparent based on your surroundings but still you would have to remove that name tag which make stealth pretty tricky.
You would have to mouse over a far away target to see the name and health.
One hand we have Millions of people who play them, on the other 30 active whiners. I think those numbers indeed stand for themselves. Thanks for pointing it out.
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
I agree with that but my point was that there isnt going to be a massive uproar if stealth is removed. Do it right or not at all is what i say and by right i mean something like splinter cell of other stealth based single player games
Your so out of touch with reality, that reasoning will be nearly impossible. If AoC removed stealth, it would almost certainly spawn countless threads with almost the same name, "AoC ruined by removal of Stealth" I'M not IMPLYING that removeing stealth would ruin the game, but rather that people would be crying that it did. There are atleast 10,000 people for Stealth for every 1 thats against. There are over a Million rogues charators in MMO games right now, many people love to play them.
Making an MMO with the same type of Stealth as a FPS would be impossible. How a programmed NPC reacts to variables is totaly different then how a Player would react. Now making it more intuitive is very possible, and AoC has already done this. Charactors stealth will be harder to be seen through given "shadows" and possibly even impossible to hide, in perfectly lit areas.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will be killed by rogues. You can say its beause stealth isn't fair, or move on and get revenge, but you will have to deal with it.
Stealth was put into AOC as a means of setting up some cool raiding, and bandit type situations. The fact that all classes will have access to it to a degree will allow some fun and realistic ambush situations. With areas of vastly different types of terrain to hide in it should make for some great fun. Caravan raiding comes to mind. There will be a chance to be detected as in real life when you have a chance to be seen when hiding. Some classes will have better stealth, i.e. assassins, and they will be able to get closer and serve as scouts. Meanwhile, a caster can remain hidden further back and not blow the entire raid with a big billboard above his head declaring his name and guild preference. It should be fun and add another unique type of game play to AOC.
Well said, as much as I am not keen on playing a stealth type of character, I can't ignore the fact that they can add to the enjoyment more especially on a tactical scale in the game. The benefits outweigh the negatives if its implemented correctly and fairly. Judging from whats been said on the forums and at the conventions this year, it certainly looks they are taking people concerns on a professional level.