Originally posted by ghoul31 Originally posted by Remali Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Didn't they try to leave out female characters also? Are they in now? Are they class specific? Not sure but I thought I read something to that effect and how there was some shots being thrown that way for it. Can't be sure though.
Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Well, I play the Table top game, and there is pretty much no way to do it in an MMO. Also they didn't cop out, they just never tried because it goes against the whole concept of Warhammer. Which has been straight up combat, where the only trickery is in the tactics, and the odd assassin (there are like two real assassins in all of fantasy).
Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Didn't they try to leave out female characters also? Are they in now? Are they class specific? Not sure but I thought I read something to that effect and how there was some shots being thrown that way for it. Can't be sure though.
Your so out of touch with reality, that reasoning will be nearly impossible. If AoC removed stealth, it would almost certainly spawn countless threads with almost the same name, "AoC ruined by removal of Stealth" I'M not IMPLYING that removeing stealth would ruin the game, but rather that people would be crying that it did. There are atleast 10,000 people for Stealth for every 1 thats against. There are over a Million rogues charators in MMO games right now, many people love to play them. Making an MMO with the same type of Stealth as a FPS would be impossible. How a programmed NPC reacts to variables is totaly different then how a Player would react. Now making it more intuitive is very possible, and AoC has already done this. Charactors stealth will be harder to be seen through given "shadows" and possibly even impossible to hide, in perfectly lit areas. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will be killed by rogues. You can say its beause stealth isn't fair, or move on and get revenge, but you will have to deal with it.
I question your parentage and your sexual preference. Stealth has no impact on a game sale whatsoever because of a vague world of warcraft reference and my personal experience. I will now bore you with some technobabble about how stealth can or maybe cannot be coded within specific parameters of a given game engine.
Using a popular phrasing, I will now show you the size of my stealthy e-Peen by subtly referring to my own uberness in a completely different game- which by the way has about 17 gazillion other people playing it, have played it, or are going to play it, therefor I must be right.
Whine more, wow noob, scriptkiddie, etc.
A careful observer will note that my argument holds as much weight as the OP's; I start off by insulting the person who dares to disagree with me, followed by some baseless drivel, completing the combo with a reference to how great I am at a different game altogether. Then I decide to finish off with a show of numbers, and more insults towards the very platform I'm adressing.
Technically mine holds even more weight due to near-flawless spelling, grammar and punctuation. I demand cookies.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Originally posted by Remali Check out what the people intersted in that other mmo have to say about stealth http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=poll+stealth Grow up and accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. Keep up with the namecalling though it amuses me tbh i guess the generalization of "wow kiddie" wasnt too far off
Lol, I'm a Toys 'R' WoW kidd. ie. The pot calling the kettle black are we? You must play WoW too. Oh wait, here comes the bash. Nice, burrrrrrrrrn. Oh god dude, pretty lame.
I'm not saying that forums on the topic doesn't exist, I'm saying that you can't speak for a majority which is clearly what you do when you say most people. What you should say is most of what you have read in a PARTICULAR forum (one warhammer forum out of probably thousands) about a PARTICULAR subject (non-inclusion of stealth) that people won't miss it or w/e. I would really like to know if the people in those threads are apart of the largest community in MMO class based games. The rogue player base. If not then the threads where this is the subject is biased to begin with.
I mean c'mon, it's probably only an issue for pvp I bet.
Anyhow, I'm done with this subject. Whether it's in or out, done well or loosely put together... all remains to be seen. My opinion is that if it is left out in any game the rogue should be viable in other ways that make him/her/it hold their own with the other classes. BALANCED IS THE WORD.
I do like what the OP said tho, people don't whine about things they are content with. (hmm, I'm not content with how necro types always have some sort of minions making me fight against at least 2 more than I should. Well, that's fair. Or how sometimes caster's see me coming and there's no way for me to get to them and they blast me to bits because my armor is so low. Why is my armor so low, sooooooo low? Ohh, wait...I have high Dps though which only means something if I can get to my target, which usually has to be something other than a war because their armor is sooooo high).
Your so out of touch with reality, that reasoning will be nearly impossible. If AoC removed stealth, it would almost certainly spawn countless threads with almost the same name, "AoC ruined by removal of Stealth" I'M not IMPLYING that removeing stealth would ruin the game, but rather that people would be crying that it did. There are atleast 10,000 people for Stealth for every 1 thats against. There are over a Million rogues charators in MMO games right now, many people love to play them. Making an MMO with the same type of Stealth as a FPS would be impossible. How a programmed NPC reacts to variables is totaly different then how a Player would react. Now making it more intuitive is very possible, and AoC has already done this. Charactors stealth will be harder to be seen through given "shadows" and possibly even impossible to hide, in perfectly lit areas. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will be killed by rogues. You can say its beause stealth isn't fair, or move on and get revenge, but you will have to deal with it.
I question your parentage and your sexual preference. Stealth has no impact on a game sale whatsoever because of a vague world of warcraft reference and my personal experience. I will now bore you with some technobabble about how stealth can or maybe cannot be coded within specific parameters of a given game engine. Using a popular phrasing, I will now show you the size of my stealthy e-Peen by subtly referring to my own uberness in a completely different game- which by the way has about 17 gazillion other people playing it, have played it, or are going to play it, therefor I must be right. Whine more, wow noob, scriptkiddie, etc.
A careful observer will note that my argument holds as much weight as the OP's; I start off by insulting the person who dares to disagree with me, followed by some baseless drivel, completing the combo with a reference to how great I am at a different game altogether. Then I decide to finish off with a show of numbers, and more insults towards the very platform I'm adressing. Technically mine holds even more weight due to near-flawless spelling, grammar and punctuation. I demand cookies.
You fail cuz you are now playing the largest debacle in the history of MMO's. You have won vanguard. Flamage flame on. I on the otherhand fail because I'm now playing the other debacle. Man I'm such a hypocrite.
You fail cuz you are now playing the largest debacle in the history of MMO's. You have won vanguard. Flamage flame on. I on the otherhand fail because I'm now playing the other debacle. Man I'm such a hypocrite.
Ahhhh but the point is; I have won Vanguard without using a stealth class!
Let us fail now, you and I...
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
SilverPhenix, that was the most childish attempt at being amusing I've seen here on MMORPG.com. You've got nothing to spew out but, personal attacks? You questiong my sexual preference?
Does this not go to show that the same people who are complaining, are immature? They offer no critical insite into their oppinions. "Stealth Sucks" Isn't enough reason to convince others that it doesn't belong in game. I feel like I'm talking to my son about why he needs to brush his teeth. Because "I don't like it" doesn't make it a bad thing.
SilverPhenix, that was the most childish attempt at being amusing I've seen here on MMORPG.com. You've got nothing to spew out but, personal attacks? You questiong my sexual preference? Does this not go to show that the same people who are complaining, are immature? They offer no critical insite into their oppinions. "Stealth Sucks" Isn't enough reason to convince others that it doesn't belong in game. I feel like I'm talking to my son about why he needs to brush his teeth. Because "I don't like it" doesn't make it a bad thing. In two words, GROW UP.
Now consider that I was merely imitating YOU, except I was more blatant about it. Then put your foot where your mouth (or other cavity) is.
Since you've opened this thread, everyone who so much as remotely disagrees with you gets insulted or demeaned in some way before you vaguely attempt to respond to them by citing nothing more than your own personal experience. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.
Read back what you've written and you know it's true. Again, you have received your answer: There will be stealth in AoC. Now go back to your uber rogue in WoW pls.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
SilverPhenix, that was the most childish attempt at being amusing I've seen here on MMORPG.com. You've got nothing to spew out but, personal attacks? You questiong my sexual preference? Does this not go to show that the same people who are complaining, are immature? They offer no critical insite into their oppinions. "Stealth Sucks" Isn't enough reason to convince others that it doesn't belong in game. I feel like I'm talking to my son about why he needs to brush his teeth. Because "I don't like it" doesn't make it a bad thing. In two words, GROW UP.
Now consider that I was merely imitating YOU, except I was more blatant about it. Then put your foot where your mouth (or other cavity) is.
Since you've opened this thread, everyone who so much as remotely disagrees with you gets insulted or demeaned in some way before you vaguely attempt to respond to them by citing nothing more than your own personal experience. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.
Read back what you've written and you know it's true. Again, you have received your answer: There will be stealth in AoC. Now go back to your uber rogue in WoW pls.
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this.
The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC. Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it.
To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
I find it very strange that Funcom are gonna add stealth/cloaking/sneaking etc. in Age of Conan. Other major mmorpg designer company have already learn from the past that stealth is not a favour choice by the customers. Stealth seems a bit overpowered in pvp...if you ask me. The assassin class will mostly be the easies class so solo pvp with, simple because if there is to many foe on the screen you just disappear. Also they can choice there own fight and will nevet get ganked by multiplied forces. They really ruined PvP in mmorpg because they enter there "stealth" find a weak player with low health hit him and "restealth" again. Also they can solo a lot by bypassin a lot of contest just with stealth alone, see in many other mmorpg.
My personal opinion is that people choice the stealth class because they suck in pvp and need every sort of advantage to win. Even hardcore Pvper consider stealth cloak a "chicken" class because they dont like to be attacked like a tank class. But they enjoy to Pvp alone when they have a stealth ability tough. Also a lot of stealth are also what in terms is called "gankers".
Maybe its just me, but it seems the only reason for hateing stealth is people are tired of dying to stealthers. The stealth didn't kill you. The fact that you couldn't kill that person did. WoW stealth is done very very well, however i think that you should be able to see the person far more easily. In battle 1 person could hide, but when its 1 v 1, chances are your going to have a hard time hiding. That is how it should play out in games too.
No many people think that a a non magic rogue standing 10 feet from someone being completely invisible is conceptually extremely stupid. I think that they think this because its obviously true.
Was it possible to pop people out of stealth? Yes. Did that make it less hokey and stupid? No.
Maybe its just me, but it seems the only reason for hateing stealth is people are tired of dying to stealthers. The stealth didn't kill you. The fact that you couldn't kill that person did. WoW stealth is done very very well, however i think that you should be able to see the person far more easily. In battle 1 person could hide, but when its 1 v 1, chances are your going to have a hard time hiding. That is how it should play out in games too.
No many people think that a a non magic rogue standing 10 feet from someone being completely invisible is conceptually extremely stupid. I think that they think this because its obviously true. Was it possible to pop people out of stealth? Yes. Did that make it less hokey and stupid? No.
I think that first line says it all. The part about a non magic rogue. Obviously it is a rogue with only 1 magic ability. Which I think that all the games I played with a stealth mechanism including the so called "bane of the MMO world by many on this site" that I am playing this month have had cast times and cool downs just like spells and skills that all the classes have.
But to look at it like that is kinda hypocritical. YOUR IN A MAGICAL, FANTASTICAL world where everyone is dealing in magic.
Example: I will use WoW ok (shoot me). You mean to tell me that I as a rogue I can be an enchanter/disenchanter. I can use magical scrolls. I can summon vanity pets with the flic of a wrist. I can USE MAGICAL items that glow and crackle. But I can't have one magical type skill that cloaks me to make it easier to pickpocket and back stab? It's a learned skill. It even has basically it's own talent tree.
How about in other terms....(this next question involves real life and being able to stand 10 feet from someone and be hidden in plain view, by the way..tv shows do it all the time), Have you ever lost your car keys only to find them on the counter right where you left them? Have you ever looked right at those car keys being on the counter and didn't even realize that they were there? I know I have.
Throughout my life time there have been instances like this almost every year. Where what I was looking for was in plain view yet I couldn't see it.
Flip side though, games that haven't had stealth had a way for the rogue to reach it's target quickly. If a rogue can't reach his opponent by stealth or reach his opponent quickly and has light weight armor, can't tank, has high DPS but can't get there to use it...Why would anyone want to play this class?
I know players who purposely gimp their characters to make a game more challenging and maybe that type of rogue-ish character would appeal to them, IDk.
Maybe its just me, but it seems the only reason for hateing stealth is people are tired of dying to stealthers. The stealth didn't kill you. The fact that you couldn't kill that person did. WoW stealth is done very very well, however i think that you should be able to see the person far more easily. In battle 1 person could hide, but when its 1 v 1, chances are your going to have a hard time hiding. That is how it should play out in games too.
No many people think that a a non magic rogue standing 10 feet from someone being completely invisible is conceptually extremely stupid. I think that they think this because its obviously true.
Was it possible to pop people out of stealth? Yes. Did that make it less hokey and stupid? No.
Yet freezeing people with bolts of ice from your hands is completely Normal. Scorpions crawling out of my buttox to kill people for me happens EVERY day. Actualy those things don't happen. However Marine Corps snipers do get within several feet of a target without being noticed.
I find it very strange that Funcom are gonna add stealth/cloaking/sneaking etc. in Age of Conan. Other major mmorpg designer company have already learn from the past that stealth is not a favour choice by the customers. Stealth seems a bit overpowered in pvp...if you ask me. The assassin class will mostly be the easies class so solo pvp with, simple because if there is to many foe on the screen you just disappear. Also they can choice there own fight and will nevet get ganked by multiplied forces. They really ruined PvP in mmorpg because they enter there "stealth" find a weak player with low health hit him and "restealth" again. Also they can solo a lot by bypassin a lot of contest just with stealth alone, see in many other mmorpg. My personal opinion is that people choice the stealth class because they suck in pvp and need every sort of advantage to win. Even hardcore Pvper consider stealth cloak a "chicken" class because they dont like to be attacked like a tank class. But they enjoy to Pvp alone when they have a stealth ability tough. Also a lot of stealth are also what in terms is called "gankers".
My oppinion is that people who make statements like "People who use stealth because they suck and PvP and need every sort of advantage to win" are just crying because they've been beaten, and these are the same people who cry to nerf every other class besides them. While time and time again, in games with stealth you can see that it certainly isn't the best for PvP. I'll take Warcraft for example (Sorry but, over 9 million people can't be wrong) If you were to put together an arena group, your not likely to be 1 of the 3 if your a rogue. Mages, Pallys, Priests/Druids/Warlocks will get the spot. Rogues just arn't that great. Sure they have stealth, but as soon as they show up, and get a DOT on them, they're dying, because without stealth their lower hitpoints, and lower armor makes them too vulnerable.
I am extremely surprised that there are still people that have not yet accepted stealth into thier mmos.......
I mean what are devs supposed to do.....do away with stealth altogether? If you have any brilliant ideas on how you can make a rogue class without implementing stealth i would love to hear it. or maybe even a modified version of stealth youd be happy with. I just dont think it can be done right.
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this. The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC. Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it. To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
And what you never seemed to notice is that I never "cried" about stealth in Age of Conan. I never "cried" about stealth in general. I love stealth in games. I love the frustration of finding a dagger in my back at a critical time and the sensation of relief I get when I pound said dagger-wielder into dust (sometimes). Also, the "very small portion" that *does* hate stealth *did* explain it. Except you want to dismiss their explanations as invalid because you don't agree with the very premise of hating stealth.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Yet freezeing people with bolts of ice from your hands is completely Normal. Scorpions crawling out of my buttox to kill people for me happens EVERY day. Actualy those things don't happen. However Marine Corps snipers do get within several feet of a target without being noticed.
Allright allright, all this discussion is too late for AoC cause they're already implementing it the way they see fit. A perception-based system apparently, which would kinda be in-line with the whole USMC sniper thing. Assuming of course the system takes the environment into account: Even a USMC sniper can't get within a few feet of its target if he's crawling on concrete without any kind of hard/soft obstructions between them.
So for argument's sake/new games: how about a ninja-system? It would eliminate the whole 10-feet issue, it would be "realistic within the parameters of your average fantasy setting", and it would make for a new gimmick. If anyone's played Vanguard, it'd be like that Dreadknight skill where you disappear in a puff of smoke and reappear behind your target, doing the attack you queued up for it.
You can't "stealth" as such, but you don't lose the first-strike advantage of the average rogueish class.
Of course, if they implemented that in Pirates of the Burning Sea, the universe would collapse in a violent temporal anomaly.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Yet freezeing people with bolts of ice from your hands is completely Normal. Scorpions crawling out of my buttox to kill people for me happens EVERY day. Actualy those things don't happen. However Marine Corps snipers do get within several feet of a target without being noticed.
Allright allright, all this discussion is too late for AoC cause they're already implementing it the way they see fit. A perception-based system apparently, which would kinda be in-line with the whole USMC sniper thing. Assuming of course the system takes the environment into account: Even a USMC sniper can't get within a few feet of its target if he's crawling on concrete without any kind of hard/soft obstructions between them. So for argument's sake/new games: how about a ninja-system? It would eliminate the whole 10-feet issue, it would be "realistic within the parameters of your average fantasy setting", and it would make for a new gimmick. If anyone's played Vanguard, it'd be like that Dreadknight skill where you disappear in a puff of smoke and reappear behind your target, doing the attack you queued up for it. You can't "stealth" as such, but you don't lose the first-strike advantage of the average rogueish class.
Of course, if they implemented that in Pirates of the Burning Sea, the universe would collapse in a violent temporal anomaly.
Like shadow stepping in guild wars. It's a teleportation skill for the assassin class(rogue).
Your so out of touch with reality, that reasoning will be nearly impossible. If AoC removed stealth, it would almost certainly spawn countless threads with almost the same name, "AoC ruined by removal of Stealth" I'M not IMPLYING that removeing stealth would ruin the game, but rather that people would be crying that it did. There are atleast 10,000 people for Stealth for every 1 thats against. There are over a Million rogues charators in MMO games right now, many people love to play them. Making an MMO with the same type of Stealth as a FPS would be impossible. How a programmed NPC reacts to variables is totaly different then how a Player would react. Now making it more intuitive is very possible, and AoC has already done this. Charactors stealth will be harder to be seen through given "shadows" and possibly even impossible to hide, in perfectly lit areas. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will be killed by rogues. You can say its beause stealth isn't fair, or move on and get revenge, but you will have to deal with it.
I question your parentage and your sexual preference. Stealth has no impact on a game sale whatsoever because of a vague world of warcraft reference and my personal experience. I will now bore you with some technobabble about how stealth can or maybe cannot be coded within specific parameters of a given game engine.
Using a popular phrasing, I will now show you the size of my stealthy e-Peen by subtly referring to my own uberness in a completely different game- which by the way has about 17 gazillion other people playing it, have played it, or are going to play it, therefor I must be right.
Whine more, wow noob, scriptkiddie, etc.
A careful observer will note that my argument holds as much weight as the OP's; I start off by insulting the person who dares to disagree with me, followed by some baseless drivel, completing the combo with a reference to how great I am at a different game altogether. Then I decide to finish off with a show of numbers, and more insults towards the very platform I'm adressing.
Technically mine holds even more weight due to near-flawless spelling, grammar and punctuation. I demand cookies.
Another Worthless post, totaly ignoring the fact that AoC's offical forums show that charactors typicaly associated with stealth... e.g. Assasins, are the most popular one. IF you don't think that the thousands of people who normaly play rogues, would hate the fact that there was no stealth. Damn near every sucessful game, has had stealth. Leaving it out would be a huge mistake. Funcom obvously sees this is true as they've included stealth.
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this. The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC. Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it. To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
And what you never seemed to notice is that I never "cried" about stealth in Age of Conan. I never "cried" about stealth in general. I love stealth in games. I love the frustration of finding a dagger in my back at a critical time and the sensation of relief I get when I pound said dagger-wielder into dust (sometimes). Also, the "very small portion" that *does* hate stealth *did* explain it. Except you want to dismiss their explanations as invalid because you don't agree with the very premise of hating stealth.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.
Comments
Didn't they try to leave out female characters also? Are they in now? Are they class specific? Not sure but I thought I read something to that effect and how there was some shots being thrown that way for it. Can't be sure though.
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Well, I play the Table top game, and there is pretty much no way to do it in an MMO. Also they didn't cop out, they just never tried because it goes against the whole concept of Warhammer. Which has been straight up combat, where the only trickery is in the tactics, and the odd assassin (there are like two real assassins in all of fantasy).
Warhammer just copped out. Instead of trying to improve how stealth works, they just decided not to bother with it.
Didn't they try to leave out female characters also? Are they in now? Are they class specific? Not sure but I thought I read something to that effect and how there was some shots being thrown that way for it. Can't be sure though.
Are you asking about AoC or WAR?
Using a popular phrasing, I will now show you the size of my stealthy e-Peen by subtly referring to my own uberness in a completely different game- which by the way has about 17 gazillion other people playing it, have played it, or are going to play it, therefor I must be right.
Whine more, wow noob, scriptkiddie, etc.
A careful observer will note that my argument holds as much weight as the OP's; I start off by insulting the person who dares to disagree with me, followed by some baseless drivel, completing the combo with a reference to how great I am at a different game altogether. Then I decide to finish off with a show of numbers, and more insults towards the very platform I'm adressing.
Technically mine holds even more weight due to near-flawless spelling, grammar and punctuation. I demand cookies.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Lol, I'm a Toys 'R' WoW kidd. ie. The pot calling the kettle black are we? You must play WoW too. Oh wait, here comes the bash. Nice, burrrrrrrrrn. Oh god dude, pretty lame.
I'm not saying that forums on the topic doesn't exist, I'm saying that you can't speak for a majority which is clearly what you do when you say most people. What you should say is most of what you have read in a PARTICULAR forum (one warhammer forum out of probably thousands) about a PARTICULAR subject (non-inclusion of stealth) that people won't miss it or w/e. I would really like to know if the people in those threads are apart of the largest community in MMO class based games. The rogue player base. If not then the threads where this is the subject is biased to begin with.
I mean c'mon, it's probably only an issue for pvp I bet.
Anyhow, I'm done with this subject. Whether it's in or out, done well or loosely put together... all remains to be seen. My opinion is that if it is left out in any game the rogue should be viable in other ways that make him/her/it hold their own with the other classes. BALANCED IS THE WORD.
I do like what the OP said tho, people don't whine about things they are content with. (hmm, I'm not content with how necro types always have some sort of minions making me fight against at least 2 more than I should. Well, that's fair. Or how sometimes caster's see me coming and there's no way for me to get to them and they blast me to bits because my armor is so low. Why is my armor so low, sooooooo low? Ohh, wait...I have high Dps though which only means something if I can get to my target, which usually has to be something other than a war because their armor is sooooo high).
Let us fail now, you and I...
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
SilverPhenix, that was the most childish attempt at being amusing I've seen here on MMORPG.com. You've got nothing to spew out but, personal attacks? You questiong my sexual preference?
Does this not go to show that the same people who are complaining, are immature? They offer no critical insite into their oppinions. "Stealth Sucks" Isn't enough reason to convince others that it doesn't belong in game. I feel like I'm talking to my son about why he needs to brush his teeth. Because "I don't like it" doesn't make it a bad thing.
In two words,
GROW UP.
Now consider that I was merely imitating YOU, except I was more blatant about it. Then put your foot where your mouth (or other cavity) is.
Since you've opened this thread, everyone who so much as remotely disagrees with you gets insulted or demeaned in some way before you vaguely attempt to respond to them by citing nothing more than your own personal experience. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.
Read back what you've written and you know it's true. Again, you have received your answer: There will be stealth in AoC. Now go back to your uber rogue in WoW pls.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Now consider that I was merely imitating YOU, except I was more blatant about it. Then put your foot where your mouth (or other cavity) is.
Since you've opened this thread, everyone who so much as remotely disagrees with you gets insulted or demeaned in some way before you vaguely attempt to respond to them by citing nothing more than your own personal experience. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.
Read back what you've written and you know it's true. Again, you have received your answer: There will be stealth in AoC. Now go back to your uber rogue in WoW pls.
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this.
The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC.
Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it.
To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
I find it very strange that Funcom are gonna add stealth/cloaking/sneaking etc. in Age of Conan. Other major mmorpg designer company have already learn from the past that stealth is not a favour choice by the customers. Stealth seems a bit overpowered in pvp...if you ask me. The assassin class will mostly be the easies class so solo pvp with, simple because if there is to many foe on the screen you just disappear. Also they can choice there own fight and will nevet get ganked by multiplied forces. They really ruined PvP in mmorpg because they enter there "stealth" find a weak player with low health hit him and "restealth" again. Also they can solo a lot by bypassin a lot of contest just with stealth alone, see in many other mmorpg.
My personal opinion is that people choice the stealth class because they suck in pvp and need every sort of advantage to win. Even hardcore Pvper consider stealth cloak a "chicken" class because they dont like to be attacked like a tank class. But they enjoy to Pvp alone when they have a stealth ability tough. Also a lot of stealth are also what in terms is called "gankers".
Was it possible to pop people out of stealth? Yes. Did that make it less hokey and stupid? No.
I think that first line says it all. The part about a non magic rogue. Obviously it is a rogue with only 1 magic ability. Which I think that all the games I played with a stealth mechanism including the so called "bane of the MMO world by many on this site" that I am playing this month have had cast times and cool downs just like spells and skills that all the classes have.
But to look at it like that is kinda hypocritical. YOUR IN A MAGICAL, FANTASTICAL world where everyone is dealing in magic.
Example: I will use WoW ok (shoot me). You mean to tell me that I as a rogue I can be an enchanter/disenchanter. I can use magical scrolls. I can summon vanity pets with the flic of a wrist. I can USE MAGICAL items that glow and crackle. But I can't have one magical type skill that cloaks me to make it easier to pickpocket and back stab? It's a learned skill. It even has basically it's own talent tree.
How about in other terms....(this next question involves real life and being able to stand 10 feet from someone and be hidden in plain view, by the way..tv shows do it all the time), Have you ever lost your car keys only to find them on the counter right where you left them? Have you ever looked right at those car keys being on the counter and didn't even realize that they were there? I know I have.
Throughout my life time there have been instances like this almost every year. Where what I was looking for was in plain view yet I couldn't see it.
Flip side though, games that haven't had stealth had a way for the rogue to reach it's target quickly. If a rogue can't reach his opponent by stealth or reach his opponent quickly and has light weight armor, can't tank, has high DPS but can't get there to use it...Why would anyone want to play this class?
I know players who purposely gimp their characters to make a game more challenging and maybe that type of rogue-ish character would appeal to them, IDk.
Stealth is great I love it.
More stealth please
Cheers.
Was it possible to pop people out of stealth? Yes. Did that make it less hokey and stupid? No.
Yet freezeing people with bolts of ice from your hands is completely Normal. Scorpions crawling out of my buttox to kill people for me happens EVERY day. Actualy those things don't happen. However Marine Corps snipers do get within several feet of a target without being noticed.
My oppinion is that people who make statements like "People who use stealth because they suck and PvP and need every sort of advantage to win" are just crying because they've been beaten, and these are the same people who cry to nerf every other class besides them. While time and time again, in games with stealth you can see that it certainly isn't the best for PvP. I'll take Warcraft for example (Sorry but, over 9 million people can't be wrong) If you were to put together an arena group, your not likely to be 1 of the 3 if your a rogue. Mages, Pallys, Priests/Druids/Warlocks will get the spot. Rogues just arn't that great. Sure they have stealth, but as soon as they show up, and get a DOT on them, they're dying, because without stealth their lower hitpoints, and lower armor makes them too vulnerable.
I am extremely surprised that there are still people that have not yet accepted stealth into thier mmos.......
I mean what are devs supposed to do.....do away with stealth altogether? If you have any brilliant ideas on how you can make a rogue class without implementing stealth i would love to hear it. or maybe even a modified version of stealth youd be happy with. I just dont think it can be done right.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Allright allright, all this discussion is too late for AoC cause they're already implementing it the way they see fit. A perception-based system apparently, which would kinda be in-line with the whole USMC sniper thing. Assuming of course the system takes the environment into account: Even a USMC sniper can't get within a few feet of its target if he's crawling on concrete without any kind of hard/soft obstructions between them.
So for argument's sake/new games: how about a ninja-system? It would eliminate the whole 10-feet issue, it would be "realistic within the parameters of your average fantasy setting", and it would make for a new gimmick. If anyone's played Vanguard, it'd be like that Dreadknight skill where you disappear in a puff of smoke and reappear behind your target, doing the attack you queued up for it.
You can't "stealth" as such, but you don't lose the first-strike advantage of the average rogueish class.
Of course, if they implemented that in Pirates of the Burning Sea, the universe would collapse in a violent temporal anomaly.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Like shadow stepping in guild wars. It's a teleportation skill for the assassin class(rogue).
There is no premise for hating stealth, only the opinions of previous posters.
Using a popular phrasing, I will now show you the size of my stealthy e-Peen by subtly referring to my own uberness in a completely different game- which by the way has about 17 gazillion other people playing it, have played it, or are going to play it, therefor I must be right.
Whine more, wow noob, scriptkiddie, etc.
A careful observer will note that my argument holds as much weight as the OP's; I start off by insulting the person who dares to disagree with me, followed by some baseless drivel, completing the combo with a reference to how great I am at a different game altogether. Then I decide to finish off with a show of numbers, and more insults towards the very platform I'm adressing.
Technically mine holds even more weight due to near-flawless spelling, grammar and punctuation. I demand cookies.
Another Worthless post, totaly ignoring the fact that AoC's offical forums show that charactors typicaly associated with stealth... e.g. Assasins, are the most popular one. IF you don't think that the thousands of people who normaly play rogues, would hate the fact that there was no stealth. Damn near every sucessful game, has had stealth. Leaving it out would be a huge mistake. Funcom obvously sees this is true as they've included stealth.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.