You are still complaining about NPD Group, Inc. numbers? Even without NPD sales numbers the other facts, provided by Turbine themselves, still put LoTRO subscription numbers at between 100,000 - and 182,000. Multi-billion dollar companies like Wal-mart, EMI Music, T-FAL, Valvoline, Hasbro and Toshiba trust NPD's research and numbers, but they are not good enough for Mr. Internet poster, dragonace.
I'll let my opinions and the articles I've posted speak for themselves. Other posters and readers can decide for themselves if they think the more compelling arguement is yours, the opposite, or something in-between.
Not sure why you are having such a hard time grasping the idea that not all of us like to be sheep. I'll do my own research and see where it leads me. I've pointed out the areas that are not "fact" as you've presented them.
If you have a hard time with other posters pointing out the flaws in your arguements... perhaps posting on internet forums isn't the place for you.
You are still complaining about NPD Group, Inc. numbers? Even without NPD sales numbers the other facts, provided by Turbine themselves, still put LoTRO subscription numbers at between 100,000 - and 182,000. Multi-billion dollar companies like Wal-mart, EMI Music, T-FAL, Valvoline, Hasbro and Toshiba trust NPD's research and numbers, but they are not good enough for Mr. Internet poster, dragonace.
I appreciate the research you have done. The numbers are hard to come by, and with data being provided by Turbine that is less than adequate, this helps to filter out the noise of this great WoW killer attitude..
Basically, no one needs to be a WoW killer...that will be difficult...for now...but Turbine should be happy with their numbers as long as they hit that magic 100k, as that easily equals profit...
btw, 1 million players is impossible, as most lotro players know, codemasters/turbine have really pathetic servers *flashback at the last event, 100 people online at the same place = 50 disconnects*
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Oh my. I am amazed on how people can spend so much energy on "how many people play a game"? Shouldn't your time be used in a more productive way? Like explaining why you like or dislike the game? Again, who cares how many people like the game? If you like it, then play it! If not, then dump it. The big question is not "how many play LoTRO?" but, "Do I like playing LoTRO?" And then share those thoughts with us.
I appreciate the research you have done. The numbers are hard to come by, and with data being provided by Turbine that is less than adequate, this helps to filter out the noise of this great WoW killer attitude..
Thank you for that! I did spend several hours researching, and even made contact and exchanged a few emails with both authors of the Boston Globe and BusinessWeek articles.
To know that at least someone appreciates the effort makes it worth it.
To those not interested in the mmorpg industry as a whole and that could care less about subscription numbers, it's quite simple, don't waste your time reading or posting in threads that don't interest you - although, the mere fact that you are here, betrays your lies that you are not interested.
Semp,I really thank you for your hard work in looking this things up, but how many threads do we need on the same subject? And how many days do we need to talk about this same subject? and ultimately, despite what numbers you or anyone else finds, people will play the game. It all comes down to this: If I like it, screw everybody else's opinion on it! And screw how many people are playing it!
Semp,I really thank you for your hard work in looking this things up, but how many threads do we need on the same subject? And how many days do we need to talk about this same subject? and ultimately, despite what numbers you or anyone else finds, people will play the game. It all comes down to this: If I like it, screw everybody else's opinion on it! And screw how many people are playing it!
Actually, this was the original post about subscriptions...if you note the date... and had the best data available as well..
It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
Semp,I really thank you for your hard work in looking this things up, but how many threads do we need on the same subject? And how many days do we need to talk about this same subject? and ultimately, despite what numbers you or anyone else finds, people will play the game. It all comes down to this: If I like it, screw everybody else's opinion on it! And screw how many people are playing it!
Actually, this was the original post about subscriptions...if you note the date... and had the best data available as well..
It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
If you read through the entire thread it has pretty much all the same info as the current threads. Obviously there have been some new announcements since that thread was started, but I do think it was the one sub. thread to rule them all!
Semp,I really thank you for your hard work in looking this things up, but how many threads do we need on the same subject? And how many days do we need to talk about this same subject? and ultimately, despite what numbers you or anyone else finds, people will play the game. It all comes down to this: If I like it, screw everybody else's opinion on it! And screw how many people are playing it!
Actually, this was the original post about subscriptions...if you note the date... and had the best data available as well..
It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
If you read through the entire thread it has pretty much all the same info as the current threads. Obviously there have been some new announcements since that thread was started, but I do think it was the one sub. thread to rule them all!
Edit: Make the link a clicky.
Ah...that was the one that discussed Midway sales, and not the "4 million" fiasco.
Both threads are about the same...but this one tried to lay to rest the exponential leap of the Boston Globes 800k subs...and tried to put real numbers to paper..
Whew...WHY did Turbine even have to say "4 million characters"...lol!
Whew...WHY did Turbine even have to say "4 million characters"...lol! Cheers!
For the very reason that we are still talking about it on internet forums.
It was dreamed up by PR and marketing... appears like it worked. There has to be some controversy in order for the marketing to have staying power... so this is the vehicle they chose.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck.
From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
Whew...WHY did Turbine even have to say "4 million characters"...lol! Cheers!
For the very reason that we are still talking about it on internet forums.
It was dreamed up by PR and marketing... appears like it worked. There has to be some controversy in order for the marketing to have staying power... so this is the vehicle they chose.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck.
From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
Does not looks like it worked for their user base.... Leaving posts and "ghost town" posts are popping quite frequently.
Anyhow i don't think for a day that they even have anything remotely close to 150.000 subscribers, there is litterally no PvP in the game , so all the PvE carebears are there yes, and playing other PvE oriented games as well , you find any PvP lover in LotRO.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck. From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
I guess that depends upon the person. For me, it has given me a very poor impression of Turbine. It has shown me that they will dramatically attempt to decieve people about the success of their products.
One day they put out statement that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG with over 4 million characters created.
A few days later they put out another statement with an asterisk that they are the 2nd largest MMORPG and then down at the bottom the fine print reads only out of games developed in the US.
After I wrote Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe and Matt Vella at BusinessWeek, they both responded by contacting Turbine about the articles they wrote and the numbers Turbine had given them.
Maybe that was part of the reason that Turbine added an asterisk a couple of days later.
If nobody had done anything, they would have continued to boast that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG, I am sure.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck. From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
I guess that depends upon the person. For me, it has given me a very poor impression of Turbine. It has shown me that they will dramatically attempt to decieve people about the success of their products.
One day they put out statement that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG with over 4 million characters created.
A few days later they put out another statement with an asterisk that they are the 2nd largest MMORPG and then down at the bottom the fine print reads only out of games developed in the US.
After I wrote Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe and Matt Vella at BusinessWeek, they both responded by contacting Turbine about the articles they wrote and the numbers Turbine had given them.
Maybe that was part of the reason that Turbine added an asterisk a couple of days later.
If nobody had done anything, they would have continued to boast that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG, I am sure.
And that is completely dishonest.
Thank you...I am glad I am no the only one saying this...but, anytime I do, I get the "Your a troll" comment...
Anyways...it does lead to speculation of why the need to do this...but with one answer...battle against the big guns..Blizzard...and I think Turbine will not be alone further down the road...other MMO's will find a way to warp their numbers to make em look good also...
That said, you should join the other conversation about the infamous "survey" that has been submitted to select users...that one is a hoot as well....seems they are trying to pull some extra cash from other avenues...like extra storage, etc...
I do think Turbine was intentionally vague about the numbers because they want people speculating. Speculating leads to debating and discussion. If you look at these threads on LoTRO and its numbers, they are some of the most active on MMORPG.com. They have the free trial plastered right on the main page as well. This is how you get your product exposure.
From what I can tell by checking the Free Trial section of the LoTRO Forums is that its working. Alot of these trials are being converted to Product Key sales and subscriptions.
I guess that depends upon the person. For me, it has given me a very poor impression of Turbine. It has shown me that they will dramatically attempt to decieve people about the success of their products.
One day they put out statement that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG with over 4 million characters created. A few days later they put out another statement with an asterisk that they are the 2nd largest MMORPG and then down at the bottom the fine print reads only out of games developed in the US.
After I wrote Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe and Matt Vella at BusinessWeek, they both responded by contacting Turbine about the articles they wrote and the numbers Turbine had given them. Maybe that was part of the reason that Turbine added an asterisk a couple of days later. If nobody had done anything, they would have continued to boast that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG, I am sure. And that is completely dishonest.
Well, I am glad that you've found a mission, and I do applaud your commitment to this cause. However, I'm curious. Why just Turbine and LoTRo? Surely you've noticed that they aren't the only company, and not even the only MMO company that makes somewhat dubious claims of their product. Right?
As an example here are a few examples of some claims made by other MMOs that would seem hard to prove or might be construed as dishonest:
"Constant updates provide a never-ending supply of content in an ever-expanding game world. With two huge updates already live and Episode 2 on the horizon, both CCR and Codemasters Online Gaming are pulling out all the stops to ensure that RF Online grows above and beyond any other MMORPG"
www.roma-victor.com/ "the most exhaustive crafting and skills tree of any current MMORPG" WIKI Quote : Roma Victor features a complex crafting system, in which it is possible to find a huge amount of resources and components that can be put together using the hundreds of related skills. Currently many, although not all, of the skills are implemented and ready for use. (Meaning they are not the only ones who think this...)
www.darkandlight.com/en/ "The Largest MMORPG You've Ever Seen" Gamezone quote : Biggest Virtual Gameworld Ever At 40,000 square kilometers (15,000 square miles) (Meaning the company is not the only one who has seen or knows about this...and the numbers are in plain sight for all to see...)
www.rf-onlinegame.com/about.php "Constant updates provide a never-ending supply of content in an ever-expanding game world. With two huge updates already live and Episode 2 on the horizon, both CCR and Codemasters Online Gaming are pulling out all the stops to ensure that RF Online grows above and beyond any other MMORPG" Example of typical update http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/COG_Confirms_RF_Online_Update_10203_5049_0.htm Thats a lot...just for 1 update...includes some overhauls even. Also, all companies do updates, and if Turbine would have said, we put out more content updates than anyone else, then there would have been no argument...they do a TON of updates... Also note, the sentence states "Ensures that"...meaning, they believe by putting out all of these updates, they can be above and beyond...so, they did not state this as FACT.
everquest.station.sony.com/ "Immerse yourself in the largest massively multiplayer online roleplaying game in North America." And to finish the sentence taken out of context Over 50,000 items to earn and collect... Also, probably at the time the text was used they sure were huge...as not many other MMO's existed, and they were the largest of that time..
www.archlordgame.com/press.php "600% growth drives demand as Codemasters Online launch new world across Europe and North America!" Based on the fact it was quite huge "overseas", where this type of growth took place..Archlord was one of the top MMO's in Asia...so, due to that growth, decided to try and launch in NA and Europe...this was not growth in NA and Europe...
www.eve-online.com/ "The World's Largest Game Universe" By using the words "Universe", they indicated they were not of a single world, which could make them the largest "Universe" based game...as there are not many others to speak of...(SWG, Planetside for example)
"May be the fantasy RPG that finally gives EverQuest a run for its platinum"
- PC Gamer" Your quotes are from magazines and not the actual company...so these are called "impressions" and not flat out lies by the company itself...
Well, as you can see... quite a bit of marketing going on in the MMO universe. So again, I'm curious; why just Turbine and LoTRo?
So, as you can see, there is reasoning behind each statement...not some way for these companies to make themselves the all great and knowing MMO hot on the heels of Blizzards monster... That is the reason to discuss the marketing techniques of Turbine and LOTRO specifically... Sorry
All I have to say is you guys are killing the MMO industry. Not the developers, but the customers that shout with glee everytime they think they can prove that a game is failing. What's in it for you? How do you get such delight in the failure of something? I would also say that there are dozens of MMO's that survive that have far less members then LOTRO. What kills a game is when a new player reads a bunch of doom and gloom messages about the game they want to buy and they tell their friends that it sucks cause someone on a message board said it did. Or they say the game is dying because someone thinks they know when they really don't. Nice. Are you going to enjoy it just as much when there are no new games to play?
All I have to say is you guys are killing the MMO industry. Not the developers, but the customers that shout with glee everytime they think they can prove that a game is failing. What's in it for you? How do you get such delight in the failure of something? I would also say that there are dozens of MMO's that survive that have far less members then LOTRO. What kills a game is when a new player reads a bunch of doom and gloom messages about the game they want to buy and they tell their friends that it sucks cause someone on a message board said it did. Or they say the game is dying because someone thinks they know when they really don't. Nice. Are you going to enjoy it just as much when there are no new games to play?
Although your points have merit, remember that the negative response is directly due to the game. For example, I played LOTRO in the beta, and I knew right then exactly what they were trying to do. It was nothing more then a copy of the wow formula in a different setting, with an even smaller world. The game seemed rushed using an old formula, when it should have been meticulously crafted to retain the true epicness of the books and films. Few people dismissed LOTRO because it was LOTR, they dismissed it because it is nothing more then a money grab, when it could have been so much more. The sooner that developers understand that cookie cutter MMOs just don't cut it anymore, then the sooner we'll be able to enjoy truly immersive and great games again.
Well I really dont see the need for these threads, i see new toons everyday in lotro, its a fun game, besides eq2 and (rip) earth and beyond this has become a very nice enjoyable game for me to play, brandywine is a hopping server.
All I have to say is you guys are killing the MMO industry. Not the developers, but the customers that shout with glee everytime they think they can prove that a game is failing. What's in it for you? How do you get such delight in the failure of something? I would also say that there are dozens of MMO's that survive that have far less members then LOTRO. What kills a game is when a new player reads a bunch of doom and gloom messages about the game they want to buy and they tell their friends that it sucks cause someone on a message board said it did. Or they say the game is dying because someone thinks they know when they really don't. Nice. Are you going to enjoy it just as much when there are no new games to play?
Although your points have merit, remember that the negative response is directly due to the game. For example, I played LOTRO in the beta, and I knew right then exactly what they were trying to do. It was nothing more then a copy of the wow formula in a different setting, with an even smaller world. The game seemed rushed using an old formula, when it should have been meticulously crafted to retain the true epicness of the books and films. Few people dismissed LOTRO because it was LOTR, they dismissed it because it is nothing more then a money grab, when it could have been so much more. The sooner that developers understand that cookie cutter MMOs just don't cut it anymore, then the sooner we'll be able to enjoy truly immersive and great games again.
Also, take into account...it is not that the game is failing...it is not the purpose of the thread...but more along the lines of the practices being done by Turbine...
Lying is not the way to garner customers or keep customers...so, if they DO fail, it would be their own doing. Skewed subscriptions, surveys on pay for features for a premium priced game...these will be the gift that keeps on giving...
These threads do not exist for WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2 (except for the SOE hate threads...but, that is for other reasons besides lies, but instead for killing a game with what THEY thought was the right thing to do...kind of like Turbine is doing) or Lineage 2, etc, etc...
Reason : Fabrication and less than adequate services and a game of mediocre playability, all will total a later catastrophe...
Turbine needs to lay low, and just let the game run it's course instead of making this super hype machine...the license is the key...focus on that, and make a game worthy of such a license (which they have not had success at yet..DDO ring bells?), and then these types of threads would stop..
All I have to say is you guys are killing the MMO industry. Not the developers, but the customers that shout with glee everytime they think they can prove that a game is failing. What's in it for you? How do you get such delight in the failure of something? I would also say that there are dozens of MMO's that survive that have far less members then LOTRO. What kills a game is when a new player reads a bunch of doom and gloom messages about the game they want to buy and they tell their friends that it sucks cause someone on a message board said it did. Or they say the game is dying because someone thinks they know when they really don't. Nice. Are you going to enjoy it just as much when there are no new games to play?
Although your points have merit, remember that the negative response is directly due to the game. For example, I played LOTRO in the beta, and I knew right then exactly what they were trying to do. It was nothing more then a copy of the wow formula in a different setting, with an even smaller world. The game seemed rushed using an old formula, when it should have been meticulously crafted to retain the true epicness of the books and films. Few people dismissed LOTRO because it was LOTR, they dismissed it because it is nothing more then a money grab, when it could have been so much more. The sooner that developers understand that cookie cutter MMOs just don't cut it anymore, then the sooner we'll be able to enjoy truly immersive and great games again.
Also, take into account...it is not that the game is failing...it is not the purpose of the thread...but more along the lines of the practices being done by Turbine...
Lying is not the way to garner customers or keep customers...so, if they DO fail, it would be their own doing. Skewed subscriptions, surveys on pay for features for a premium priced game...these will be the gift that keeps on giving...
These threads do not exist for WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2 (except for the SOE hate threads...but, that is for other reasons besides lies, but instead for killing a game with what THEY thought was the right thing to do...kind of like Turbine is doing) or Lineage 2, etc, etc...
Reason : Fabrication and less than adequate services and a game of mediocre playability, all will total a later catastrophe...
Turbine needs to lay low, and just let the game run it's course instead of making this super hype machine...the license is the key...focus on that, and make a game worthy of such a license (which they have not had success at yet..DDO ring bells?), and then these types of threads would stop..
Really!
I appreciate both of these responses as I see both are based in reality. My only issue is the "Bandwagon" mentality where people see flaws, that leads to exaggerated flames and threads that are intended not to help a game "grow" but to relish in a games' demise. A great example are the people that continue to ignore that Vanguard has improved because it's a lot more fun to say how much it failed.
I appreciate both of these responses as I see both are based in reality. My only issue is the "Bandwagon" mentality where people see flaws, that leads to exaggerated flames and threads that are intended not to help a game "grow" but to relish in a games' demise. A great example are the people that continue to ignore that Vanguard has improved because it's a lot more fun to say how much it failed.
I'm quite glad to see someone thinking along the same time as myself. Quite a relief
Also agree with Boognish. These threads are utterly pointless. And me stupid, I am actually bringing it up again - kick me
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Comments
Not sure why you are having such a hard time grasping the idea that not all of us like to be sheep. I'll do my own research and see where it leads me. I've pointed out the areas that are not "fact" as you've presented them.
If you have a hard time with other posters pointing out the flaws in your arguements... perhaps posting on internet forums isn't the place for you.
Basically, no one needs to be a WoW killer...that will be difficult...for now...but Turbine should be happy with their numbers as long as they hit that magic 100k, as that easily equals profit...
Cheers!
and WoW, and guild wars, and ...
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
btw, 1 million players is impossible, as most lotro players know, codemasters/turbine have really pathetic servers
*flashback at the last event, 100 people online at the same place = 50 disconnects*
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Oh my. I am amazed on how people can spend so much energy on "how many people play a game"? Shouldn't your time be used in a more productive way? Like explaining why you like or dislike the game? Again, who cares how many people like the game? If you like it, then play it! If not, then dump it. The big question is not "how many play LoTRO?" but, "Do I like playing LoTRO?" And then share those thoughts with us.
Thank you for that! I did spend several hours researching, and even made contact and exchanged a few emails with both authors of the Boston Globe and BusinessWeek articles.
To know that at least someone appreciates the effort makes it worth it.
To those not interested in the mmorpg industry as a whole and that could care less about subscription numbers, it's quite simple, don't waste your time reading or posting in threads that don't interest you - although, the mere fact that you are here, betrays your lies that you are not interested.
Semp,I really thank you for your hard work in looking this things up, but how many threads do we need on the same subject? And how many days do we need to talk about this same subject? and ultimately, despite what numbers you or anyone else finds, people will play the game. It all comes down to this: If I like it, screw everybody else's opinion on it! And screw how many people are playing it!
It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
Cheers!
Actually, this was the original post about subscriptions...if you note the date... and had the best data available as well..It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
Cheers!
Actually I believe this one was the original:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/142530
If you read through the entire thread it has pretty much all the same info as the current threads. Obviously there have been some new announcements since that thread was started, but I do think it was the one sub. thread to rule them all!
Edit: Make the link a clicky.
It is so many others who felt the need to start multiple threads on why we did not need this thread...
This by far is the most informative and less inflammatory of the threads.
Cheers!
Actually I believe this one was the original:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/142530
If you read through the entire thread it has pretty much all the same info as the current threads. Obviously there have been some new announcements since that thread was started, but I do think it was the one sub. thread to rule them all!
Edit: Make the link a clicky.
Ah...that was the one that discussed Midway sales, and not the "4 million" fiasco.Both threads are about the same...but this one tried to lay to rest the exponential leap of the Boston Globes 800k subs...and tried to put real numbers to paper..
Whew...WHY did Turbine even have to say "4 million characters"...lol!
Cheers!
It was dreamed up by PR and marketing... appears like it worked. There has to be some controversy in order for the marketing to have staying power... so this is the vehicle they chose.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck.
From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
It was dreamed up by PR and marketing... appears like it worked. There has to be some controversy in order for the marketing to have staying power... so this is the vehicle they chose.
Do you honestly think that we would still be talking about it if they had just come out and given a straight-up number for subs.? I don't. They knew that if they used a number that was going to be open to a lot of different interpretations... they'd get the most bang for their buck.
From the amount of press and threads on forums all over the net... I'd say it worked.
Does not looks like it worked for their user base.... Leaving posts and "ghost town" posts are popping quite frequently.
eqnext.wikia.com
Oh they do like to lie alot at Turbine.
Anyhow i don't think for a day that they even have anything remotely close to 150.000 subscribers, there is litterally no PvP in the game , so all the PvE carebears are there yes, and playing other PvE oriented games as well , you find any PvP lover in LotRO.
List of SOE lies
I guess that depends upon the person. For me, it has given me a very poor impression of Turbine. It has shown me that they will dramatically attempt to decieve people about the success of their products.
One day they put out statement that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG with over 4 million characters created.
A few days later they put out another statement with an asterisk that they are the 2nd largest MMORPG and then down at the bottom the fine print reads only out of games developed in the US.
After I wrote Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe and Matt Vella at BusinessWeek, they both responded by contacting Turbine about the articles they wrote and the numbers Turbine had given them.
Maybe that was part of the reason that Turbine added an asterisk a couple of days later.
If nobody had done anything, they would have continued to boast that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG, I am sure.
And that is completely dishonest.
I guess that depends upon the person. For me, it has given me a very poor impression of Turbine. It has shown me that they will dramatically attempt to decieve people about the success of their products.
One day they put out statement that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG with over 4 million characters created.
A few days later they put out another statement with an asterisk that they are the 2nd largest MMORPG and then down at the bottom the fine print reads only out of games developed in the US.
After I wrote Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe and Matt Vella at BusinessWeek, they both responded by contacting Turbine about the articles they wrote and the numbers Turbine had given them.
Maybe that was part of the reason that Turbine added an asterisk a couple of days later.
If nobody had done anything, they would have continued to boast that they were the 2nd largest MMORPG, I am sure.
And that is completely dishonest.
Thank you...I am glad I am no the only one saying this...but, anytime I do, I get the "Your a troll" comment...
Anyways...it does lead to speculation of why the need to do this...but with one answer...battle against the big guns..Blizzard...and I think Turbine will not be alone further down the road...other MMO's will find a way to warp their numbers to make em look good also...
That said, you should join the other conversation about the infamous "survey" that has been submitted to select users...that one is a hoot as well....seems they are trying to pull some extra cash from other avenues...like extra storage, etc...
Cheers!
I do think Turbine was intentionally vague about the numbers because they want people speculating. Speculating leads to debating and discussion. If you look at these threads on LoTRO and its numbers, they are some of the most active on MMORPG.com. They have the free trial plastered right on the main page as well. This is how you get your product exposure.
From what I can tell by checking the Free Trial section of the LoTRO Forums is that its working. Alot of these trials are being converted to Product Key sales and subscriptions.
As an example here are a few examples of some claims made by other MMOs that would seem hard to prove or might be construed as dishonest:
www.roma-victor.com/
"the most exhaustive crafting and skills tree of any current MMORPG"
www.darkandlight.com/en/
"The Largest MMORPG You've Ever Seen"
www.rf-onlinegame.com/about.php
"Constant updates provide a never-ending supply of content in an ever-expanding game world. With two huge updates already live and Episode 2 on the horizon, both CCR and Codemasters Online Gaming are pulling out all the stops to ensure that RF Online grows above and beyond any other MMORPG"
everquest.station.sony.com/
"Immerse yourself in the largest massively multiplayer online roleplaying game in North America."
www.archlordgame.com/press.php
"600% growth drives demand as Codemasters Online launch new world across Europe and North America!"
www.eve-online.com/
"The World's Largest Game Universe"
www.shadowbane.com/us/Press.php
""Shadowbane redefines the massively multiplayer online role-playing genre"
- Wired Magazine
"THE NEXT GREAT ONLINE RPG"
- Computer Gaming World
"May be the fantasy RPG that finally gives EverQuest a run for its platinum"
- PC Gamer"
Well, as you can see... quite a bit of marketing going on in the MMO universe. So again, I'm curious; why just Turbine and LoTRo?
dragonace, please stick to the topic. This discussion is about LoTRO subscriptions. If you want to discuss other games, then make a new thread.
All I have to say is you guys are killing the MMO industry. Not the developers, but the customers that shout with glee everytime they think they can prove that a game is failing. What's in it for you? How do you get such delight in the failure of something? I would also say that there are dozens of MMO's that survive that have far less members then LOTRO. What kills a game is when a new player reads a bunch of doom and gloom messages about the game they want to buy and they tell their friends that it sucks cause someone on a message board said it did. Or they say the game is dying because someone thinks they know when they really don't. Nice. Are you going to enjoy it just as much when there are no new games to play?
Well I really dont see the need for these threads, i see new toons everyday in lotro, its a fun game, besides eq2 and (rip) earth and beyond this has become a very nice enjoyable game for me to play, brandywine is a hopping server.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Also, take into account...it is not that the game is failing...it is not the purpose of the thread...but more along the lines of the practices being done by Turbine...
Lying is not the way to garner customers or keep customers...so, if they DO fail, it would be their own doing. Skewed subscriptions, surveys on pay for features for a premium priced game...these will be the gift that keeps on giving...
These threads do not exist for WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2 (except for the SOE hate threads...but, that is for other reasons besides lies, but instead for killing a game with what THEY thought was the right thing to do...kind of like Turbine is doing) or Lineage 2, etc, etc...
Reason : Fabrication and less than adequate services and a game of mediocre playability, all will total a later catastrophe...
Turbine needs to lay low, and just let the game run it's course instead of making this super hype machine...the license is the key...focus on that, and make a game worthy of such a license (which they have not had success at yet..DDO ring bells?), and then these types of threads would stop..
Really!
Also, take into account...it is not that the game is failing...it is not the purpose of the thread...but more along the lines of the practices being done by Turbine...
Lying is not the way to garner customers or keep customers...so, if they DO fail, it would be their own doing. Skewed subscriptions, surveys on pay for features for a premium priced game...these will be the gift that keeps on giving...
These threads do not exist for WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2 (except for the SOE hate threads...but, that is for other reasons besides lies, but instead for killing a game with what THEY thought was the right thing to do...kind of like Turbine is doing) or Lineage 2, etc, etc...
Reason : Fabrication and less than adequate services and a game of mediocre playability, all will total a later catastrophe...
Turbine needs to lay low, and just let the game run it's course instead of making this super hype machine...the license is the key...focus on that, and make a game worthy of such a license (which they have not had success at yet..DDO ring bells?), and then these types of threads would stop..
Really!
I appreciate both of these responses as I see both are based in reality. My only issue is the "Bandwagon" mentality where people see flaws, that leads to exaggerated flames and threads that are intended not to help a game "grow" but to relish in a games' demise. A great example are the people that continue to ignore that Vanguard has improved because it's a lot more fun to say how much it failed.
Also agree with Boognish. These threads are utterly pointless. And me stupid, I am actually bringing it up again - kick me
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.