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I've lost hope in MMORPGs. Goodbye fellow vets
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Your preferences are on the unpopular side. Most people like playing games for fun... not to be stressed out by some griefer who kills them just so they get a death penalty.
I think what people are getting at is that a good FFA PvP game would have to be designed for FFA PvP from the beginning, rather than just tacking a FFA server onto an existing game. I've never been a big fan of FFA PvP (although I'd be interested to see a FFA MMO with a good design) but I can see where people are coming from here. It's a similar situation to any MMO that has a tacked on PvP system. Most of them are really just a PvE game with some faction vs faction or battlegrounds tacked on at the end.
I guess a realistic option would be a PvP MMO that is designed with FFA servers in mind. So, the game could be faction vs faction or realm vs realm, but because of the design, you could have FFA servers that work pretty well. Of course, that still wouldn't be the same as having an MMO thats designed specifically for FFA PvP...
Break em off some!
Indeed there is truth here. Too many seem to be caught up in the words to see what the OP is trying to say.
I would define myself a mmorpg vet. I could list reasons why but some will recognize my forum name and that will suffice.
LOTRO: Never have I ever experienced the profiling and prejudice as I experienced in this game. First I am perma banned for being profiled as a gold farmer (this happened to several decent folks on every server and they were reinstated after a huge backlash) shortly after release. Reporting a fellow player for even the slightest infraction of the TOS was the tool of trade in this game. I was the first player on Gladden to lead Player Raids into the Ettenmoors (Monster Play zone); Because some kid wants to be the Raid leader for Freeps (player characters) in the Ettenmoors he and his minions go on a mission of giving me a bad name and I end up not only getting booted from my guild, I end up getting suspended from the game and almost perma banned again (this took some time but every day was nothing but constant harrassment and redicule, yet I could not do the same without being reported by everyone in the raid). I am eventually forced to take my player character to another server. I concentrated on my Creep (Monster character) during all this time to get some payback through killing some of these sycophants, which is not an easy task: Creeps are DESIGNED TO BE INFERIOR then Freeps because it is in accordance to the lore, as Heroes are simply better then the so called evil horde. If you do not wish to believe this go post on some public forums as to wether this is true or not and you shall see. I ended up quitting LOTRO because I eventually understood a powergamer and a true pvper would not be happy there.
WOW: I was a charter member of a well known PvP guild(who had formed in UO) in this game and I witnessed a focused PvP guild turn into a focused PvE guild practically overnight. I remember being really busy during the start of this game and the aforementioned guild dropped me after being gone for a weekend without reporting in...I laughed about it and moved on. I watched really fun, exciting, suspenseful public zone PvP turn into instanced battlegrounds favoring toons twinked through constant PvE raid grinding. I ended up following suit and grinding PvE content ad nauseum until I could compete and did my share of face bashing and then some. I then discovered 10-19th level battlegrounds and understood that you could only twink so far and that gear was not as much of an issue here but much more important were tactics. I ended up leaving because there was only one battleground for 10-19th level and many others persisted in supporting THE GRIND.
Shadowbane: Followed the Development of this game for 3 years before I ended up securing a beta spot. Really believed this game would be the true PvPers salvation. My beta characters (Seek, Uber) were a force to be reckon with...so much so that the developers despised them. I have to admit I did go a bit overboard but the games focus was enough of an excuse for me to get away with it. The beta state of this game was horrid and they were set on releasing anyways. I informed them of their foolishness on the forums and told them I was quitting beta and never intended to play the retail version. Look at what happened to the game and where they are now...enough said. I had alot of fun in beta and really hoped this game would fare well....sigh.
I could go on and on detailing my experiences in Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, Everquest, and The Realm (never participated in UO simply because I was really busy at the time and did not really enjoy the previous single player Ultima series (Richard's idea of medieval fantasy, I do not share)). I do not get into Sci-Fi MMOGs either, its only Medieval for me...cept there was a period where I delved into the Unreal & Unreal Tournament games as it was the only place I could really express myself and take out fools...
My main observation is how Player vs Player has went from being FFA to mostly instanced.
Understanding and using ingame chat filters and tools to simply reporting players at any given whim.
Suspending, Banning, Censorship have replaced Patience, Tolerance, and Compassion (lol)
Players now have to be ultimately concerned with level and item twinking....much of which is sustained through constant PvE grinding.
Some PvPers occupy an IRC chatroom awaiting for a vaporware as their salvation...DARKFALL
I figure I am going to hold out for WAR and AoC and decide which will suit me...hopefully one of these brings back some of the good ol days where you actually had to pay attention...
Nah, not exactly. What happens (and I've seen myself do this): The games will get more and more sucky, the person(s) in question will get more and more disgruntled...and with no gaming options that really grab them, they will spend more and more time in these forums complaining about it and less and less time actually playing any games. Every so often they will make an attempt and play pretty much every game that comes out for a month, three at most, then realize they really hate it, they might struggle on for another month or two trying to make themselves like it, but in the end they end up right back here, replacing level and gear grinding with the sad realization that they have achieved 5 stars.
Then, one day they will call someone an F'in noob when they get disgruntled, get banned, lose a couple stars, then madly post to get them back...it's a sad, sad life.
D.
Bans only less like 3 days. you cant lose a star in 3 days. I tried my best nopt to post here for 2 weeks this month still didnt lose a star lol. I dunno how to lose a star....
What are you talking about????? there are still tons of other games that still offer FFA PvP or at least PvP servers out there! the only difference being that you'll now have to play with other people who want to PK instead of mashing everyone (PvEr's included) into the same server. EQ still has FFA PvP servers if I'm not mistaken, so does UO (haven't played these in a long while, so I don't know what changes they made.) and DAoC, WoW has PvP servers, they're all there. What the argument is, is that a game that caters exclusively to FFA PvP (every single server) is retarded, and from a business stand point, a horrible idea. I don't know why there's an argument that "There's no more MMO's for us" when the fact of the matter is, that there are, what the majority of the FFA PvP supporters seem to be upset about, is that the majority of people don't want to be play in those servers where new players can be exploited easily. Try and paint FFA PvP as rosy as you want, we're not suckers.
I don't think you understand me at all. First off, a FFA PvP game will be marketed as such, so almost every one of the players you run into will want to PvP.FFA PvPers want a skill based system with an emphasis on a player economy. They don't want a grind for item game that those MMOs you speak of offer. Why would anyone want to play a game for months grinding levels/items to enjoy the content they started playing for? Sure it's easy to say go play WoW, EQ, etc. servers when you obviously don't share the same mindset of the people you're giving the suggestion to.
Get the assumption out of your mind that every FFA PvP fan wants to exploit non PvPers. Honestly I could care less about the 'majority' playing. There's enough of a fanbase in this niche for it to be profitable and servers to have people playing in them if done right. If PvE games can have PvP only servers why can't PvP games have PvE only servers? If you want to resort to a biased stereotype that doesn't make a bit of sense, I can too, like let's just chalk up all the PvErs mindless droans addicted to nothing more than aquiring cool loot. See where this is going? Broaden your perspective a bit.
My experiences with MMo's are leading me to a simular conclusion.
Didnt really help I started playing SWG back in 2005 as my first MMo. I loved the game until they kept changing into a wow clone, wouldnt mind if it actually was an improvement, but its pathetic, so bad SOE made a WHOLE new forum to hide the truth about what the majority of its subscribers.
Nothing since then has compared, WoW's ruined by its player base, who are majority imature, obnoxious, arrogant, abusive, or hardcore roleplayers. Same with guildwars really, though the guild in isnt soo bad, but finding people in that game for quests is a complete joke, hero's are an option? more like compulasary.
Tried ryzom, which is simular to SWG's old system, nice people, however there wont be any new content because the develope bankrupt, (2nd developers, 1st went backrupt also). Its another dying mmo.
Matrix online, such another awesome let down by its developers only caring about profit. Then SOE took over, (i left because they took over) and suprize suprize they recduced the servers from 12 to 3 :P
City of Villans was fun for like a month, but i died of boredom before even trying pvp, just doing the same missions over and over was boring. (kill kill kill, next location, kill kill kill, etc).
and forums are a waste of time, full of people moaning about balancing classes/proffesions and skills. I understand some skills do require a little tweaking, but in most cases its someone who got beaten, and wanted to vent some frustration for "balance", but how can you balance a carrot and punkin on scales, you cant, there "different", same as classes, pvp is supposed to be team based, but people still cant get that into there $%$%$ skulls :P
Im hope Stargate worlds might bring something interesting to the table, but for now mmo's are off the menu in this household
fixed that for you
What are you talking about????? there are still tons of other games that still offer FFA PvP or at least PvP servers out there! the only difference being that you'll now have to play with other people who want to PK instead of mashing everyone (PvEr's included) into the same server. EQ still has FFA PvP servers if I'm not mistaken, so does UO (haven't played these in a long while, so I don't know what changes they made.) and DAoC, WoW has PvP servers, they're all there. What the argument is, is that a game that caters exclusively to FFA PvP (every single server) is retarded, and from a business stand point, a horrible idea. I don't know why there's an argument that "There's no more MMO's for us" when the fact of the matter is, that there are, what the majority of the FFA PvP supporters seem to be upset about, is that the majority of people don't want to be play in those servers where new players can be exploited easily. Try and paint FFA PvP as rosy as you want, we're not suckers.
Bane is right though most of us FFA Pvpers cry louder then anyone we have no games to play even though there are hundreds to thousands player run servers, indies like Starport, asian MMOs, etc. I got so many FFA PVP games to play I dunno what to do.....
and I've seen them work well when its all Killers (PKers). im all for letting the PVE'ers have their own server
what really showed me the light was playing on a role playing server. omgwth those guys really need their own server bar none- WORST then ALL of us
I agree with a lot of what the OP says.
Something needs to change. Hopefully one of the games in development will do that for us?
What are you talking about????? there are still tons of other games that still offer FFA PvP or at least PvP servers out there! the only difference being that you'll now have to play with other people who want to PK instead of mashing everyone (PvEr's included) into the same server. EQ still has FFA PvP servers if I'm not mistaken, so does UO (haven't played these in a long while, so I don't know what changes they made.) and DAoC, WoW has PvP servers, they're all there. What the argument is, is that a game that caters exclusively to FFA PvP (every single server) is retarded, and from a business stand point, a horrible idea. I don't know why there's an argument that "There's no more MMO's for us" when the fact of the matter is, that there are, what the majority of the FFA PvP supporters seem to be upset about, is that the majority of people don't want to be play in those servers where new players can be exploited easily. Try and paint FFA PvP as rosy as you want, we're not suckers.
They whine beacuse they know exactly what is waiting for them if they join a FFA PvP game now that is already established. Instead of being the griefers they will be the griefed noob and thats not ok because they do not have the I Win button.
there, I fixed that. lol
what if we stop complaining and started acting, we should make an union of gamers, went on strike if developers dont stop coping everything, if we dont play they lose theyr income and have to listen to us, come on the workers did it, we should do the same, this is a stupid idea but atleast its not complaining
yeah as a pre UO:R gamer im very disappointed in TR with its PvE carebear quest driven world....but I guess I have gotten used to it after all these years. Dude dont give up hope because well EVE rocks the world....and there are some rgeat projects coming out bro. Bethesdas 300mil MMO? Shadowbane is still alive and so are pre UO:R or pre pub 16 (if thats your thing) servers for UO around bro.
I play all ghame
/agree 100%.. which is why I am not playing an MMO right now.. they suck. I agree about HGL as well... very boring and repetitive.
I am having more fun playing Super Monkey Ball on my Wii then playing any current MMO's.
it's not really a pvp versus a pve argument it's more of the fact that todays games don't really embrace the fact that their game in an online persistant world. PvP just happens to be the easiest way for a programmer to take advantage of the persistant world like with eve's sovernty, the world is always changing as a result and the only code it took was making pos's and stations claim sovernty and making them be able to be blown up.
WoW's endgame could be a 25 player LAN game, Eve's endgame needs lots of different people and different alliances since the endgame is pvp.
Tabula Rosa having 10 different instances of a world zone just shows that new games might be getting further away from embracing an online world and heading more towards lets have an excuse for people to pay a monthly fee.
A PvE game that embraces the online world is probably a bit difficult at the moment with hard to program AI. Also if you want the landscape to change that would require a lot of bandwidth to update users on the changing maps and such.
So I guess once someone comes up with a great idea for a PvE constantly evolving world then things will be looking up. Of course if you made an eve where some alliances were AI, like serpentis maybe trying to take over Venal or something, you'd have player alliances that could take back the area but then other players couldn't really take the other players if it was PvE only, so maybe PvP is the only good answer for endgame type evolving world stuff.
personally what i'd like is a high fantasy game where engineeringly impossibly stuff like really long skinny bridges and really high towers were in game and the world would evolve with people building unique structures and trying to destroy others with a mix of AI npcs doing the same type of stuff and blending in with characters (not necessarily on their teams but where the npc was more than just some thing that spawned here and walked aimlessly until killed). But that's more bandwidth to update the map for people and complicated/impossible AI. Sure that's a way ways off, but the games today don't even seem to try, maybe Tabula Rosa with it's bane taking over but I kind of doubt it and am only lvl 11 so I don't know too much about that game yet.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
1. The Trammel server of UO - Like it or not, and for whatever reasons you want to believe... bottom-line: more players chose Trammel than not.
2. The success of WoW - This is the biggest influence in MMOs right now I believe. Every other MMO company out there wants a slice of their pie.
3. The "failure" of touted "hardcore" games such as Shadowbane, Horizons, and others - For whatever reason each time that a PvP "hardcore" game has been released... it hasn't exactly been a box-office hit.
Thankfully, EvE has done well enough that some companies out there might take a chance on a new game, and finally make the game the PvP crowd has been waiting for. (I wouldn't hold my breath on Darkfall being it though... but that's another topic).
I went through the there is no mmo out ther for me these all suck ect. Just gotta stop and look at the game there is no perfect solution it is just a matter of the community and if you can live with the percieved deficencies of the game.
Long gone are the days were gamers didn't know how to use rhetorical devices.
Agree totally with the OP.
Offline / lan gaming has been tiding my over while I wait for AOC & Darkfall, but with EA buying out pretty much every company under the sun it looks like it's not just MMO's that that are going down the gurgler.
Oh well, time to dust off my paintball gun.
With an attitude like that you won't be missed. Your opinions and beliefs are worth no more or no less than anyone here on the forums, or elsewhere. Ridiculing players, calling them "pussies" and making broad assumptions makes you look worse than the perceived issues you thought up and how you represented them.There is a place for every player I do believe, but not every game has to cater to every type of user. The fact that you or me or 70 million people do not like something has no bearing on those who do enjoy it. Also speaking as a "veteran" having played MMO games since 99' I can say that my tastes have gradually changed over the years due to real life circumstances. Back in my younger days these games would have never appealed to me at all, But now at least offer me the ability to play a game in what limited time I have and be somewhat competitive with other players. The players of today though do not need our guidance, it is not our duty in life to provide them such gems of wisdom on the all important matters of video games.
Noone was around when we started playing and some of us are doing just fine.
Well said!
No signature, I don't have a pen
I play Lineage 2. Still not carebear (although those who have played it from the start will say that it has changed towards it) but those still entering it will see it still a game that caters to PvPers. Although it is a grind, will not deny that. But if you can get past that, you will realize no one will hold your hand once you get pked or scammed or whatever happens to you continuously. Don't play it however if you want instant satisfication.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
I couldn't agree more... Still have my hopes high for Darkfall, waiting for its release...
WAR is the same old stuff.
AoC is unique, but imo a the lore messes it up (mature content and what not) say what you want... but this will only lure more noobs to the game.
The rest are mainly meh... I sometimes REALLY miss the good ol' days.... *sigh* time to move on I guess.
Why don't we play the old games? They need a graphics overhaul, more players, and some of them are practically discontinued. For now, I'm trying out all the new MMORPGs to see if anything besides eve is worth playing.
100% agree-o-fication.
Out of those 3, only UO was built from the ground up with FFA PvP in it. So honestly, UO is the only prominent FFA PvP game there, regardless if the other games offered a FFA PvP server or not. Plus, one of the biggies for FFA is Asheron's Call: Darktide server. I think it is the sandbox model with FFA PvP thrown in is what they want. I want that too, but I won't complain about not having it while there are still games that offer it. That's like saying, "I'm too snobby to play older games that offer exactly what I want, gimmee something new to play!" "Spend tens of millions of dollars on making ME a new FFA PvP game that only a handful of people in the genre will actually play."
Remember when they laid the WoW concept on the table for the very first time?I remember the hordes of players who said only a niche market will be interested in WoW, with it's pvp servers and instanced dungeons.
If MMORPG developers offer something new - the sheep will likely migrate to it, having found something funt o do - and hordes of new players that are interested in something other than grinding will flock to join the MMO genre.
Change is inevitable - sometimes for the worse and sometimes for the better. JK-Kanosi, you haven't been around long enough to know that.