Every single "censorship" example I've seen in this thread HASN'T been the US Government censoring anything.
The freedom of speech is protected in the USA (moreso than in the EU, and pretty much everywhere else in the world).
However, companies are in business to make money, and so if they want to cut a film to make it fit a PG-13 rating, that isn't censorship. That's "marketing". The government didn't force them to.
Same with movie theatres pulling a movie after 2 days. It wasn't the government that did that, but public pressure. The same kind of public pressure everyone here is trying to exert on Funcom to keep the nudity in the game.
Which, NEWSFLASH, is still in the game in the USA version. Because the rating hasn't been finalized. Do people actually READ and understand what is going on here? The M+ rating allows nudity. Just not extreme amounts/super sexual nudity. And while Funcom could make the game however they want (this is the USA after all, freedom of speech), they are going to try to SELL it to as many people as possible. AO rating does not allow this to happen as the major retailers (not the goverment!) won't carry them.
Every single "censorship" example I've seen in this thread HASN'T been the US Government censoring anything. The freedom of speech is protected in the USA (moreso than in the EU, and pretty much everywhere else in the world). However, companies are in business to make money, and so if they want to cut a film to make it fit a PG-13 rating, that isn't censorship. That's "marketing". The government didn't force them to. Same with movie theatres pulling a movie after 2 days. It wasn't the government that did that, but public pressure. The same kind of public pressure everyone here is trying to exert on Funcom to keep the nudity in the game. Which, NEWSFLASH, is still in the game in the USA version. Because the rating hasn't been finalized. Do people actually READ and understand what is going on here? The M+ rating allows nudity. Just not extreme amounts/super sexual nudity. And while Funcom could make the game however they want (this is the USA after all, freedom of speech), they are going to try to SELL it to as many people as possible. AO rating does not allow this to happen as the major retailers (not the goverment!) won't carry them.
Actually, self-censorship and corporate censorship are perhaps more damaging than government censorship? Ever read 1984? The novel strongly featured self and corporate censorship as themes, and Orwell himself said in the introduction that he considered them worse than what the government does.
So don't stick quotes around censorship without understanding the term.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Originally posted by daarco Originally posted by xenogias Keep in mind that in America boobs are still taboo. I live here and it sickens me how much censorship we have to deal with. I cant even purchase a Playboy at sam goody without getting wierd looks from people
That is just sick? How can boobs be a bad thing??? I have to bragg about Sweden then.....here women fight for their right to swim topless.....everywhere. They say: if men can swim topless, women can to. They dont want to cover up id the men dont do it : )
So after you hear this......i bet the censorship people think...."ok, then its ok" : )
Damn, I wish it was like that here in the States. I can't imagine that in this "male dominated society" we would have a problem with it but then we elect idiots like our current president.
In America, the worship of violence is how the powers that be keep us under control. Why do you think alcohol is legal as opposed to hemp? Why is violence so accepted and not sex? Easy. Anything that makes us feel good has the potential the bring us together as a people. If we come together as a people, maybe we'll realize that what we are striving for as a country just isn't right. However, to come to a realization like that means total revolution. So, we are innundated with violence and alcohol and high fructose corn syrup, the very things that keep us amped, anxious and on edge. Give us the Internet so we can voice our opinions into an empty vacuum like this forum. Let the moment pass and go back to playing whatever game of violence numbs you from the real world.
.....
You know what keeps me under control? My pay check. I'm not sure how legalizing pot would bring us all together either. I wouldn't hang out with a bunch of pot heads any more than I would a bunch of drunks. And what exactly is it that we're striving for as a country that is wrong? I haven't figured that one out. In my opinion, Americans have it pretty darned good. There's not many nationalities that I'd switch places with.
It basically comes down to this. People who will never play this game, get to make desicison as to how the game has to be played. Torrential
That's true!
There's a lot of people that think Funcom is going to censor Age of Conan, but I doubt Funcom will do just a thing. People think that Age of Conan fans are just playing the game to jerk off to virtual nipples, and people who think those things ain't really interested in Age of Conan. They probably don't have a sufficient system to play Age of Conan, so they'll troll the Age of Conan forum, but in reality they don't know how ESRB rates games.
The Witcher decided to censor their own game it wasn't ESRB that said "Hey, you must censor those mob's nipples" - the witcher will have definitely pass the rating and would sold as a mature rating without being censored. The matter of the fact is the fans want to play on Hyboria the way it was meant to be played. The game being censored will just killed it and may as well give it a Teen rating if Age of Conan is going to get censored. The game is 'rated Mature' and I'm pretty sure a lot of 17yro have seen boobies, and I'm pretty sure 'rated R' movies saw gore and sexually content.
Keep in mind that in America boobs are still taboo. I live here and it sickens me how much censorship we have to deal with. I cant even purchase a Playboy at sam goody without getting wierd looks from people
That is just sick? How can boobs be a bad thing??? I have to bragg about Sweden then.....here women fight for their right to swim topless.....everywhere. They say: if men can swim topless, women can to. They dont want to cover up id the men dont do it : )
So after you hear this......i bet the censorship people think...."ok, then its ok" : )
Damn, I wish it was like that here in the States. I can't imagine that in this "male dominated society" we would have a problem with it but then we elect idiots like our current president.
Actually in certain parts of the country it's already like that to a small extent. Do a search for Topfree Equality in North America. Some of the states that allow women to go top free include:
California, coastal
Hawaii
Maine
New York
Ohio (was just a big story from there recently where a man was arrested for exposing himself to a topless undercover officer, he claims entrapment)
Texas
Besides these states, there are other states that allow it in certain cities only or during certain times.
EDIT: Removed Link as it was NWS
Now if we could just get companies to stop censoring our games, they are rated M for a reason after all!!
I think the point many people are trying to convey is that the ratings system is outdated, and useless.
Kids nowadays... they're having sex before the age of 16. Up north, they're even pondering distributing conctraceptives in MIDDLE SCHOOL bathrooms.
Guess what; those kids aren't even teenagers, and they're seeing each other's uglies.
I suppose my point is "Who are we kidding, really?" with the M and AO ratings. How many of the males here saw pron before they were 18? How many people cursed profusely before they were 18? Anyone drink or smoke before they were 18?
Yet we've got this archaic ratings system designed to "protect" the customers from such graphic concepts... when really, these are the things that probably appeal the MOST to the 14-18 demographic. Because if you haven't heard a curse, seen a tit here and there, or at least seen a beer and a cigarette, well... perhaps you should step outside more often.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Comments
Every single "censorship" example I've seen in this thread HASN'T been the US Government censoring anything.
The freedom of speech is protected in the USA (moreso than in the EU, and pretty much everywhere else in the world).
However, companies are in business to make money, and so if they want to cut a film to make it fit a PG-13 rating, that isn't censorship. That's "marketing". The government didn't force them to.
Same with movie theatres pulling a movie after 2 days. It wasn't the government that did that, but public pressure. The same kind of public pressure everyone here is trying to exert on Funcom to keep the nudity in the game.
Which, NEWSFLASH, is still in the game in the USA version. Because the rating hasn't been finalized. Do people actually READ and understand what is going on here? The M+ rating allows nudity. Just not extreme amounts/super sexual nudity. And while Funcom could make the game however they want (this is the USA after all, freedom of speech), they are going to try to SELL it to as many people as possible. AO rating does not allow this to happen as the major retailers (not the goverment!) won't carry them.
If all else fails, eBay!
if i can't buy an AO rated version on-line i won't be purchasing
boobies or no boobies, nothing against funcom or conan - it's just a stand i take against my neighbor deciding what i can or can't do/see/read
I hope this non-sense doesn't spill over here, hell in CA ontario women can walk openly without shirts on.
I hope this non-sense doesn't spill over here, hell in CA ontario women can walk openly without shirts on.
I bet its the mingers that do it then..
My next vacation destinations are going to be Ontario then Sweden...
Censorship sucks. As everyone said, we get to see ultraviolence but not nudity/sex. With the Mature rating, we will probably see a boob or so.
Who knows?
So don't stick quotes around censorship without understanding the term.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
And censorship as a term is vastly overused. Making a change to increase profits isn't censorship, its good marketing.
If you have a problem with "self" or "corporate" censorship, make it more profitable to do something different.
Big difference between editing and censorship.
That is just sick? How can boobs be a bad thing??? I have to bragg about Sweden then.....here women fight for their right to swim topless.....everywhere. They say: if men can swim topless, women can to. They dont want to cover up id the men dont do it : )
So after you hear this......i bet the censorship people think...."ok, then its ok" : )
Damn, I wish it was like that here in the States. I can't imagine that in this "male dominated society" we would have a problem with it but then we elect idiots like our current president.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
You know what keeps me under control? My pay check. I'm not sure how legalizing pot would bring us all together either. I wouldn't hang out with a bunch of pot heads any more than I would a bunch of drunks. And what exactly is it that we're striving for as a country that is wrong? I haven't figured that one out. In my opinion, Americans have it pretty darned good. There's not many nationalities that I'd switch places with.
p.s. Isn't alcohol a depressant?
That's true!
There's a lot of people that think Funcom is going to censor Age of Conan, but I doubt Funcom will do just a thing. People think that Age of Conan fans are just playing the game to jerk off to virtual nipples, and people who think those things ain't really interested in Age of Conan. They probably don't have a sufficient system to play Age of Conan, so they'll troll the Age of Conan forum, but in reality they don't know how ESRB rates games.
The Witcher decided to censor their own game it wasn't ESRB that said "Hey, you must censor those mob's nipples" - the witcher will have definitely pass the rating and would sold as a mature rating without being censored. The matter of the fact is the fans want to play on Hyboria the way it was meant to be played. The game being censored will just killed it and may as well give it a Teen rating if Age of Conan is going to get censored. The game is 'rated Mature' and I'm pretty sure a lot of 17yro have seen boobies, and I'm pretty sure 'rated R' movies saw gore and sexually content.
That is just sick? How can boobs be a bad thing??? I have to bragg about Sweden then.....here women fight for their right to swim topless.....everywhere. They say: if men can swim topless, women can to. They dont want to cover up id the men dont do it : )
So after you hear this......i bet the censorship people think...."ok, then its ok" : )
Damn, I wish it was like that here in the States. I can't imagine that in this "male dominated society" we would have a problem with it but then we elect idiots like our current president.
Actually in certain parts of the country it's already like that to a small extent. Do a search for Topfree Equality in North America. Some of the states that allow women to go top free include:
California, coastal
Hawaii
Maine
New York
Ohio (was just a big story from there recently where a man was arrested for exposing himself to a topless undercover officer, he claims entrapment)
Texas
Besides these states, there are other states that allow it in certain cities only or during certain times.
EDIT: Removed Link as it was NWS
Now if we could just get companies to stop censoring our games, they are rated M for a reason after all!!
I think the point many people are trying to convey is that the ratings system is outdated, and useless.
Kids nowadays... they're having sex before the age of 16. Up north, they're even pondering distributing conctraceptives in MIDDLE SCHOOL bathrooms.
Guess what; those kids aren't even teenagers, and they're seeing each other's uglies.
I suppose my point is "Who are we kidding, really?" with the M and AO ratings. How many of the males here saw pron before they were 18? How many people cursed profusely before they were 18? Anyone drink or smoke before they were 18?
Yet we've got this archaic ratings system designed to "protect" the customers from such graphic concepts... when really, these are the things that probably appeal the MOST to the 14-18 demographic. Because if you haven't heard a curse, seen a tit here and there, or at least seen a beer and a cigarette, well... perhaps you should step outside more often.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...