My concerns with SOE's involvement in this game are pretty simple...
1. I think this will have to be a niche game, focused on that niche, to be successful. An attempt to please every MMO'er out there will only result in less time spent on crafting and ship combat and content, the things that makes this game worth playing (for those that are into it).
2. Niche games generally will have 30k to 200k subscribers, which is (particularly on the high end) enough to make it a nice, profitable venture...but no where near the WoW numbers.
3. SOE has time and time again displayed a strong desire to be like and compete with WoW, and I'm not sure they'd be happy with a niche game with that kind of performance.
Yes, this is ALL speculation and opinion, and not remotely me stating fact or claiming to be right...but that's what I'd be wary of if I were to subscribe to this game. SOE stepping in or strong arming the developers into WoW-ifying the game more and more at the expense of it's strengths.
In reading this I simply see another bash SOE thread. Very little is constructive in the conversation here.
I have been actually using the launcher for months now (it is not as new as people think even though it is in beta). It is not a big program and, if you have a station pass, is convenient. It does not have to be in the system tray or start up. I opted out of that. I can still launch individual games from their own launchpad.
This launcher is NOT A BIG DEAL. Heck, Steam is far more clunky and not nearly as useful due to the fact that valve does not have any MMOs (good multiplayer stuff though). You can make it so Steam does not automatically launch or show up in your system tray too. I think, from user experience, that Steam is far worse a tool then the SOE launcher. If simply for the fact you need to use it to play single player HL2.
Anyway, take a step back from your pure hate relationship with SOE and see this for what it is and you will see it is not such a big thing, nor the end of the wold for POTBS, or your gaming rig.
Personally, since I do have a station pass I actually like it. It gives easy access to the games, your account, the game web sites, etc. It is actually a good marketing tool though as it got me looking at Legends of Norath and Pirates online card games too. I have not started playing those but who knows.
In the end, the lauuncher is convenient for me to use, has quick access, and I opted not to have it launch at start up. Once launched it take up virtually no resources and is not a big program to begin with. I have suffered no performance issues due to the launcher and it works every time! This is a real user experience.
Swbghz, we both know the Boarding Party is a big marketing scheme and that everyone is invited to join. If you feel that makes you part of the elite or special, then I hate to tell you, but you aren't. Theresa is a nice person, but she is a marketing person, with marketing for POTBS on her mind first and foremost.
I remember the chat in IRC where you went ballistic over this issue and finally quit because everyone kept telling you to drop it. You seem intent on badmouthing the launcher without having any knowledge about it other than it is in beta right now. You haven't installed it, you haven't run it. Hell, you haven't even seen it run beyond screenshots. The people who are running it have been consistent in saying it had some nice features and that it wasn't actually that bad. But you can't seem to get past that it's Sony. Every post you make it's "Sony isn't bad, but they are the devil", which kind of belies your whole argument that you aren't bashing Sony.
To clear up the confusion: YES, YOU WILL HAVE TO INSTALL THE SONY LAUNCHER IN ORDER TO PLAY POTBS.
While the game itself is not Sony developed, it is being run under the Sony platform. This has many benefits for a small studio like FLS, regardless of what some naysayers say. SOE has some bad track records, (SWG, Vanguard) but then again, what studio doesn't? NCSoft has their Lineage 2. Turbine has their Asheron's Call 2. Blizzard has their WoW. But guess what....people still play those games and actually like them. So you're not speaking for everyone, like you seem to think you are. You're actually a minority! Wow....what a revelation!
If you are paranoid that SOE is out to take over your computer, then don't run it. Don't run Gamespy either. Or Xfire. Or Steam. Or NCsoft. Or pretty much any other major publishing platform that is looking to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole.
As far as using the platform to advertise, well, it's the same as when I visit a website. It's there and it's always gonna be there. I'll just ignore it until that one time when it actually works and I see something that I would actually consider buying after I do some research on it.
If you are paranoid that SOE is out to take over your computer, then don't run it. Don't run Gamespy either. Or Xfire. Or Steam. Or NCsoft. Or pretty much any other major publishing platform that is looking to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole.
Ack! Trying to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole....this sounds like Windows. I now suspect that the evil people at Microsoft are trying to take over my computer! I'll bet that Smedley and Gates have lunch together and plot to take over my computer!
Avoiding bloatware is essential to keeping a decent gaming rig running. I don't need the vast majority of this new launcher's features. All I want is to start and patch this one specific game. Why would I have a tray application do that ? The new launcher would be fine if it were an OPTION, even the default one, for PC dummies. As a requirement it sucks, plain and simple.
Who says it's a requirement? Did some checking last night, and it says NOWHERE that you have to. SOE advises to use it for trickle download, but unless you install that stupid beta piece of bloatware, the regular patcher is what comes up when you click the PotBS icon. Same as for NCsoft, really: they too have this integrated launcher, that shows all your NCSoft installations (including betas), but you do NOT need it to start one single NCSoft game.
Linna
No offense, but learn to freaken read. I've said this about 5 times now: LOOK AT THE BLUE TEXT
Yes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game.The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
I'm willing to bet you'll be able to play your game with far less advertisements exposed to you through the Station Launcher than you do just getting to this forum from the main page of this website. Yet, I don't see you guys raising pitch forks towards MMORPG.com about this.
Perhaps that is because this site is free to use and advertising supported. Comparing the two isn't even remotely similar.
Seriously though, people complain about SOE because they have employed some distasteful tactics in their attempts to build up thier revenues. People complain so much, because there is very good reasons to not trust SOE even though people trip over themselves to forgive this company.
Consider the following.
Nothing with the SOE logo on it has had a decent launch or was released "finished" even by moderate standards. Some are the considered worst case examples.
Most of their titles underwent massive sweeping changes that were very unsettling to the playerbase due to the above.
Staion pass price increase, station pass price increase....
"premium" website extra charges
Real money transfers thrust on the players of EQ2 causing a small riot and hints of other games.
Extra money for adventure packs where most companies give similar content for free.
expansions released so often and so unfinished that players formed a boycott in one game and headed off another by reassuring the players they would "slow down". They simply stopped making the rest of their titles.
The NGE is just a prime example how the company chooses to cater to potential customers over their existing customers *and without an apology*.
Real money for virtual cards and quasi RMT in games.
Consider SOEs parent companys' involvement in Rootkit scandal and getting caught defrauding movie goers with false advertisment and also getting caught in a payola scam over radio time.
That is just stuff off the top of my head and just the "finincial" stuff and how everytime you turn around they are trying to stick their hands in your pocket for something that benefits SOE far more than it does the consumer. There are plenty of reasons for people to complain about the company and not trust them. Yet time and again people trip over themselves to forgive this company when they haven't really given any reason to believe they have changed.
I'm sure people will stop bashing the company when they start doing things right. Until then though.
I have bene questioning FLS about this for weeks and it seems obvious now that they have drank the SoE kool aid and are either willingly going along with Sony/SoE plans to control user desktops (at least in part) or are powerless to stop it.
You may or may not know about SoE's new launcher, currently in beta. It is a Steam like application that professes a bunch of stuff people might think they want (if it actually ever works or is supported which in the case of PotBS it is not and seems it is not likely to be anytime soon). it is called the Station Launcher and is an auto run app with links and stuff to all the SoE games we all love so much. It runs in the tray and has a nice little advertising interface that opens up to allow you to launch the, in my case, one game you want to play such as PotBS. Of course, you are greeted with the subtle but nonetheless pervasive promotion of all the station games. And according to press clippings the future plan goes beyond SoE games to music and movies and I suppose whatever crap Sony decides to use your computer to squawk about.
I suppose if you play several Station games it is not the worst thing ever - although we all know how unreliable and problematic SoE software is and untrustworthy Sony in general is in terms of DRM and software. To me this is the biggest issue as service type software is far more prone to issues than is a simple launcher executed and terminated on demand for a specific purpose.
Eventually Station Launcher will do more than just buddy lists. Citing a closer alignment with Sony's music and movie studios, executives said they hope to bring additional content downloads to Station Launcher. Additionally, Sony will be able to provide game updates to the Launcher, allowing patches for different games through one service.
"It's not going to stop at the PC," said Nathan Pearce, a creative director at Sony Online Entertainment, which is a subsidiary of Sony Pictures Digital.
Eventually Station Launcher will do more than just buddy lists. Citing a closer alignment with Sony's music and movie studios, executives said they hope to bring additional content downloads to Station Launcher. Additionally, Sony will be able to provide game updates to the Launcher, allowing patches for different games through one service.
What gets me on this is the way FLS is spouting the SoE line. On the one hand I have little doubt that FLS is in control of the game itself but seeing how they can go from the people assuring everyone that SoE was only publishing to now being fully supportive of the requirement (when out of beta) to use this Station advertiser for you to be able to play an FLS game. I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before other SoE practices are full endorsed and supported by FLS - will we see ships and swords and things like that on sale like in other SoE games? Who knows, if they are either required or simply willing to let SoE force this down their customers throats despite all those assurances that this was NOT an SoE game then anything is not only possible but plausible.
I for one won't ever install a program like this - just on principle alone and not even deciding on the trust issue with Sony/SoE. How long it takes to become a requirement is unknown, but more than anything I think it is a serious let down to see FLS caving or going along on something like this despite all those assurances.
I allready pre ordered and will follow through and play - but I will find it very hard to subscribe given the lack of support from FLS for those not interested in Station software that does nothing but advertise and promote SoE games I would never want to play. Who knows, maybe nothing more comes of this in terms of SoE influencing FLS, but that seems quite questionable to me at this point.
You sound like the guy who spout this same argument off on the official forums about SOE's launcher. Since I am almost certain you are, here goes a brief summary to everyone else on how this ended over there. The lead developer for FLS (who happens to be very forum active) responded I believe not once but four times to your thread. Your arguments were that SOE is bad, Sony had root kit, soe has made mistakes, don't trust SOE, closed beta launcher had a problem one patch, chances are the new launcher will suck. Rusty, the lead developer, told you that you have been using the SOE throughout beta. The problem with the patch was the way their files were encoded going to SOE launcher (meaning SOE wasn't at fault, FLS was) and that has since been corrected. In fact, Rusty is looking forward to using the new launcher as the old was is well....ancient. He also mentioned how he can share your horrible stories and probably has more. He stated he was employed while STEAM was being developed over at that company and has seen the problems that goes on with what seems to be such a simple task and that is why the new launcher has taken so long (not your dooms day theory). A few users reported minor problems with the BETA launcher, but more had no problems at all with it and said it works rather nicely
Summary: You have semi-legitimiate concerns. You express them over and over in a rather exaggerated manner. Your concerns have been addressed by FLS, yet you keep them. Although this is understandable, do not act like you have absolute knowledge on this and that your doom's day "OMG FLS SOLD OUT" theory is correct since nothing has changed since day 1.
Swbghz, we both know the Boarding Party is a big marketing scheme and that everyone is invited to join. If you feel that makes you part of the elite or special, then I hate to tell you, but you aren't. Theresa is a nice person, but she is a marketing person, with marketing for POTBS on her mind first and foremost. I remember the chat in IRC where you went ballistic over this issue and finally quit because everyone kept telling you to drop it. You seem intent on badmouthing the launcher without having any knowledge about it other than it is in beta right now. You haven't installed it, you haven't run it. Hell, you haven't even seen it run beyond screenshots. The people who are running it have been consistent in saying it had some nice features and that it wasn't actually that bad. But you can't seem to get past that it's Sony. Every post you make it's "Sony isn't bad, but they are the devil", which kind of belies your whole argument that you aren't bashing Sony. To clear up the confusion: YES, YOU WILL HAVE TO INSTALL THE SONY LAUNCHER IN ORDER TO PLAY POTBS. While the game itself is not Sony developed, it is being run under the Sony platform. This has many benefits for a small studio like FLS, regardless of what some naysayers say. SOE has some bad track records, (SWG, Vanguard) but then again, what studio doesn't? NCSoft has their Lineage 2. Turbine has their Asheron's Call 2. Blizzard has their WoW. But guess what....people still play those games and actually like them. So you're not speaking for everyone, like you seem to think you are. You're actually a minority! Wow....what a revelation! If you are paranoid that SOE is out to take over your computer, then don't run it. Don't run Gamespy either. Or Xfire. Or Steam. Or NCsoft. Or pretty much any other major publishing platform that is looking to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole. As far as using the platform to advertise, well, it's the same as when I visit a website. It's there and it's always gonna be there. I'll just ignore it until that one time when it actually works and I see something that I would actually consider buying after I do some research on it.
It's not about taking over my system. It's about keeping my system clean. I don't like un-necessary processes running on my system. I have it in top notch for a damn reason. I've kept it clean for 3 years now without having to do a single reformat and only because I am strict about the shit that is put on it. I don't need their dumbass launcher that they are forcefully cramming down our throats. There is NOTHING wrong with the LaunchPads and there is NO reason for them to get rid of them.
The NGE was LAs fault, but it's a prime example of what they are doing and how people will react. The game was fine. People enjoyed it, but they insisted on fixing what wasn't broken. There was no customer choice. They FORCED it down peoples throats. The dedicated as well as the new players all got FKED! They're going exactly that with this dumbass launcher.
If it was optional then it'd be a different story and you wouldn't hear a word from me. Customers don't even have a chance to argue it because from in-game -NO ONE- has even HEARD of this new launcher. So how the hell are they going to know it needs to be optional before it's to late? They won't. Why? Because SOE is doing it in the shadows and not informing their customers. They're screwing us.
For the record. I don't use gamespy, xfire, or ncplay for the same reasons. I don't need the shit on my system. Therefor I don't have it installed. You don't need either of them to play games. They're an option. Some people like them. Others don't. I am a person that doesn't and plenty other companies provide alternatives that don't want that shit installed. So is it that hard for SOE to just keep the freaken LaunchPads and let everyone be happy? Apparantly so.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
You sound like the guy who spout this same argument off on the official forums about SOE's launcher. Since I am almost certain you are, here goes a brief summary to everyone else on how this ended over there. The lead developer for FLS (who happens to be very forum active) responded I believe not once but four times to your thread. Your arguments were that SOE is bad, Sony had root kit, soe has made mistakes, don't trust SOE, closed beta launcher had a problem one patch, chances are the new launcher will suck. Rusty, the lead developer, told you that you have been using the SOE throughout beta. The problem with the patch was the way their files were encoded going to SOE launcher (meaning SOE wasn't at fault, FLS was) and that has since been corrected. In fact, Rusty is looking forward to using the new launcher as the old was is well....ancient. He also mentioned how he can share your horrible stories and probably has more. He stated he was employed while STEAM was being developed over at that company and has seen the problems that goes on with what seems to be such a simple task and that is why the new launcher has taken so long (not your dooms day theory). A few users reported minor problems with the BETA launcher, but more had no problems at all with it and said it works rather nicely
Summary: You have semi-legitimiate concerns. You express them over and over in a rather exaggerated manner. Your concerns have been addressed by FLS, yet you keep them. Although this is understandable, do not act like you have absolute knowledge on this and that your doom's day "OMG FLS SOLD OUT" theory is correct since nothing has changed since day 1.
Yes, because the whole 2-10 beta testers for the launcher represent the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break.
I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. If they plan to cram something like this down our throats. Then they need to be a bit more informative about it. Maybe, I dunno, have it as a message in the games launchers perhaps? HOLY CRAP! BRILLIANT IDEA! Advertise about the new launcher. IN THE OLD LAUNCHER! Never know that'd work so well!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
I see this has brought out alot of drama queens and the OP seems to be the king. King of the drama Queens.....hmmmm.
I also see a tremendous amount of speculation. When the new launcher comes out of beta and is a requirement I imagine we will know exactly what it does. I know it will be reverse engineered and picked apart by many groups. Groups that like doing things like that.....many in the hopes of finding a little dirt on Sony.
Until then I will put my tinfoil hat back in the closet and hope FLS continues to make the right decisions concerning game play. Which brings up something else I'd like to touch on.
FLS's decision to partner up with SOE. Yes, it is a partnership. Controlled, but none the less a partnership. I feel this decision was made to ultimately create a better game. FLS didn't want to deal with all the BS that goes along with publishing a game. They want to focus on creating games.
FLS has been more open and honest about what's going on than any company I have ever dealt with. Brutally honest. No half truths, no blatant BS, no "No Comment" responses. FLS you have sold me on your integrity as a company. Period.
I will purchase the game, which I happen to enjoy, and hope FLS continues with the precedent they have set.
You sound like the guy who spout this same argument off on the official forums about SOE's launcher. Since I am almost certain you are, here goes a brief summary to everyone else on how this ended over there. The lead developer for FLS (who happens to be very forum active) responded I believe not once but four times to your thread. Your arguments were that SOE is bad, Sony had root kit, soe has made mistakes, don't trust SOE, closed beta launcher had a problem one patch, chances are the new launcher will suck. Rusty, the lead developer, told you that you have been using the SOE throughout beta. The problem with the patch was the way their files were encoded going to SOE launcher (meaning SOE wasn't at fault, FLS was) and that has since been corrected. In fact, Rusty is looking forward to using the new launcher as the old was is well....ancient. He also mentioned how he can share your horrible stories and probably has more. He stated he was employed while STEAM was being developed over at that company and has seen the problems that goes on with what seems to be such a simple task and that is why the new launcher has taken so long (not your dooms day theory). A few users reported minor problems with the BETA launcher, but more had no problems at all with it and said it works rather nicely
Summary: You have semi-legitimiate concerns. You express them over and over in a rather exaggerated manner. Your concerns have been addressed by FLS, yet you keep them. Although this is understandable, do not act like you have absolute knowledge on this and that your doom's day "OMG FLS SOLD OUT" theory is correct since nothing has changed since day 1.
Yes, because the whole 2-10 beta testers for the launcher represent the ENTIRE community. Give me a fking break.
I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break! LOL... wow...
As opposed to your voice that obviously represents more of a majority.
You act like this is done in secrecy. Is it really?...NO. It is on the main page that the new launcher is in beta testing on the SOE page. Under its FAQ it states that you will have to use it after beta is over. If a player doesn't take their head out of a game to notice changes that will happen (that most likely won't matter), you can't say it's done in secrecy.
You just assume that because nobody knows about it then it is automatically bad and will not work. Get over yourself.
You sound like the guy who spout this same argument off on the official forums about SOE's launcher. Since I am almost certain you are, here goes a brief summary to everyone else on how this ended over there. The lead developer for FLS (who happens to be very forum active) responded I believe not once but four times to your thread. Your arguments were that SOE is bad, Sony had root kit, soe has made mistakes, don't trust SOE, closed beta launcher had a problem one patch, chances are the new launcher will suck. Rusty, the lead developer, told you that you have been using the SOE throughout beta. The problem with the patch was the way their files were encoded going to SOE launcher (meaning SOE wasn't at fault, FLS was) and that has since been corrected. In fact, Rusty is looking forward to using the new launcher as the old was is well....ancient. He also mentioned how he can share your horrible stories and probably has more. He stated he was employed while STEAM was being developed over at that company and has seen the problems that goes on with what seems to be such a simple task and that is why the new launcher has taken so long (not your dooms day theory). A few users reported minor problems with the BETA launcher, but more had no problems at all with it and said it works rather nicely
Summary: You have semi-legitimiate concerns. You express them over and over in a rather exaggerated manner. Your concerns have been addressed by FLS, yet you keep them. Although this is understandable, do not act like you have absolute knowledge on this and that your doom's day "OMG FLS SOLD OUT" theory is correct since nothing has changed since day 1.
Yes, because the whole 2-10 beta testers for the launcher represent the ENTIRE community. Give me a fking break.
I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break! LOL... wow...
As opposed to your voice that obviously represents more of a majority.
You act like this is done in secrecy. Is it really?...NO. It is on the main page that the new launcher is in beta testing on the SOE page. Under its FAQ it states that you will have to use it after beta is over. If a player doesn't take their head out of a game to notice changes that will happen (that most likely won't matter), you can't say it's done in secrecy.
You just assume that because nobody knows about it then it is automatically bad and will not work. Get over yourself.
The average player isn't going to go researching whether a new stupid launcher is coming into play.
When you develop something like that and plan to force it upon players then the general populas NEEDS to be informed.
This is NOT the case. Therefor it is being done in secrecy. The average player just clicks the shortcut and logins then players. They arn't aware of this new launcher and could be as upset about it as I am. I know for a fact about 20 of my friends ingame arn't to happy with such a thing either as well as they're more pissed at the fact it wasn't advertised properly so they could be informed about it.
You can't expect people to research shit that you should be reaching out to them with. That's like making a new damn game, but not advertising it. It's pure idiocy.
BTW most people who do go to their games site don't go to station.com.. they go to the actual games site. Please tell me where I can clearly see information for the new launcher at everquest2.com? Where? Please show me. I'm begging you. OH YOU CAN'T, because it isn't there! That's not counting the players who just bookmark the forums and skip the non-informative site in the first damn place or people who simply rely on sites like eq2.wikia.com and never need to visit the official site, which the majority do. At least during prime time a large sum of people don't.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
I think SOE handled their beta of this launch client the right way. Due to an unfortunate situation right now, any change they make is automatically subjected to the constant barrages of "SOE WILL RUIN THE WORLD LIKE NGE". They put it out there on their main page with an FAQ answering all questions about it. Announcing it further would just invite people like you. There is barely much of a difference in that client versus the ones now. POTBS launch client is 20.1 mb, it is 20.3 mbs. It allows resources to be saved so that individual launchers don't have to be maintained. It allows people with station access to fully access the whole system. It also advertises SOE products without being too intrusive from what I've seen. NcSoft has the same type of client and I actually like it. There is a minor difference (login is handled in game rather than in client therefore you can bypass the big launcher) but due to the different corporate structures (Sony publishes in addition to owning/operating therefore has to initiate billing's checks before sending to servers) this can't be done exactlly. It also allows for updates of different games while playing others or while idling or at work (server down and you download when it comes back up).
You have a reasonable argument. This could have problems. This isn't overly advertised. The thing is that it makes since from a practical level. This criticism is nothing but SOE trolling. The worst case is that this adds ~20 mb extra in space to your computer which is hardly anything by today's standards.
Avoiding bloatware is essential to keeping a decent gaming rig running. I don't need the vast majority of this new launcher's features. All I want is to start and patch this one specific game. Why would I have a tray application do that ? The new launcher would be fine if it were an OPTION, even the default one, for PC dummies. As a requirement it sucks, plain and simple.
Who says it's a requirement? Did some checking last night, and it says NOWHERE that you have to. SOE advises to use it for trickle download, but unless you install that stupid beta piece of bloatware, the regular patcher is what comes up when you click the PotBS icon. Same as for NCsoft, really: they too have this integrated launcher, that shows all your NCSoft installations (including betas), but you do NOT need it to start one single NCSoft game.
Linna
No offense, but learn to freaken read. I've said this about 5 times now: LOOK AT THE BLUE TEXT
Yes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game.The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
Well, mr hostile, maybe YOU need to learn how to read. In context, that is. Me and the poster before me are talking about the PotBS launch. YOU are talking about a SOE launcher that is in open beta, AND NOT YET IN LIVE. Could you please remove that stick out of your [censored] and stop attacking people?
NO, you do not need to install the new SOE launcher to start playing the game on Monday. Patching will probably be longer if you don't use it (trickle download before launch), but you are completely able to just patch when the server goes up at 10 AM.
Also, if the equally annoying new NCSoft launcher is anything to go by, you can just turn the damn thing off as soon as the game is launched.
I'm pretty sure Flying Labs is in control of what is going on in the game. SOE is simply marketing the product for Flying Labs. Atleast that is what I have understood.
They are also using PotBS to market SOE products. Real cheesey and lowdown if you ask me.
Products like?
Products like SoE games and as the quotes I listed mention Sony music and movies. The issue is not whether such a program might be good for some, the issue to me is in forcing people to use it to play a game that is nto even SoE's, and how FLS could go back on their promises of no SoE control and such and let them do this.
Originally posted by Krileon I hear PoTBS has their own launcher you can use instead of the SOE one, but this is all hear say and i'm not sure where you obtain it from, but there's not telling how long that'll last.
Currently, while the Station launcher is in beta you can use the old launchpads - once it gets out of beta it will be required according to their own website and even comments from Rusty on the subject.
Originally posted by Dethnoble
Hmm, The same ol same ol. No real point just arguing just continous bashing of SOE. Honestly, just getting into the forums here you go through various clickies and you get exposed to at least 5 different advertisement of various types of games and even a massive online gaming magazine... and yet here we are. What is extremely funny about this Is I'm willing to bet you'll be able to play your game with far less advertisements exposed to you through the Station Launcher than you do just getting to this forum from the main page of this website. Yet, I don't see you guys raising pitch forks towards MMORPG.com about this.
I don't get any ads here because I use Firefox to block such things. If I couldn't clock those ads I would not bother with sites like this. But that being said, it is one thing for a free resource to use ads for money, it is another entirely to pay to play a game like PotBS and be told you have to take a program designed to market and promote Sony/SoE products as well.
Originally posted by Amegashie
Avoiding bloatware is essential to keeping a decent gaming rig running. I don't need the vast majority of this new launcher's features. All I want is to start and patch this one specific game. Why would I have a tray application do that ? The new launcher would be fine if it were an OPTION, even the default one, for PC dummies. As a requirement it sucks, plain and simple.
Exactly. As the one guy said back a few pages ago SoE has had this type of thing for a while, but people chose not to use it because ultimately, it offered them nothing they wanted. So now they are overiding consumer choice and forcing it on people instead of earning that spot on the desktop making something that people want.
And to make it worse, they are doing this with a game that is not theirs - a game FLS has talked up and down about being independent from SoE. So much for that.
I'm pretty sure Flying Labs is in control of what is going on in the game. SOE is simply marketing the product for Flying Labs. Atleast that is what I have understood.
They are also using PotBS to market SOE products. Real cheesey and lowdown if you ask me.
Products like?
Products like SoE games and as the quotes I listed mention Sony music and movies. The issue is not whether such a program might be good for some, the issue to me is in forcing people to use it to play a game that is nto even SoE's, and how FLS could go back on their promises of no SoE control and such and let them do this.
Originally posted by Krileon I hear PoTBS has their own launcher you can use instead of the SOE one, but this is all hear say and i'm not sure where you obtain it from, but there's not telling how long that'll last.
Currently, while the Station launcher is in beta you can use the old launchpads - once it gets out of beta it will be required according to their own website and even comments from Rusty on the subject.
SOE controls billing and account verification. Part of their billing process includes station pass which grants access to the game. As I stated before, this is a good thing for people with the pass. Your music and movies is not something that is currently involved in the beta launcher nor is it in any of the patch notes I have found. In order for SOE to have control, that means they are going against the consent of FLS. FLS has stated on the burningsea.com forums that they are looking forward to the new launcher since it will be much better. You are making assumptions and predictions that are only circumstantial and pure speculation.
SOE controls billing and account verification. Part of their billing process includes station pass which grants access to the game. As I stated before, this is a good thing for people with the pass. Your music and movies is not something that is currently involved in the beta launcher nor is it in any of the patch notes I have found. In order for SOE to have control, that means they are going against the consent of FLS. FLS has stated on the burningsea.com forums that they are looking forward to the new launcher since it will be much better. You are making assumptions and predictions that are only circumstantial and pure speculation.
It will be required to play potBS when it is out of beta so nothing I have said is wrong or exagerated. Sony and SoE comments are all over the web about their future plans to use it for music and moves and such so agian, perfectly accurate. So what it amounts to is SoE is leveraging a game like FLS to push Sony/SoE products - that CLEARLY goes against the control and no interferance promises from FLS and is enough to make me what is next.
Originally posted by Linna
Who says it's a requirement? Did some checking last night, and it says NOWHERE that you have to. SOE advises to use it for trickle download, but unless you install that stupid beta piece of bloatware, the regular patcher is what comes up when you click the PotBS icon.
Again, look at the website saying it will be required. Eve Rusty over on the PotBS site has acknowledged as much. While still in beta the new launcher is optional, when out of beta it will be required.
Do I have to use the Station Launcher?
Yes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game. The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
Originally posted by twhint
Swbghz, we both know the Boarding Party is a big marketing scheme and that everyone is invited to join. If you feel that makes you part of the elite or special, then I hate to tell you, but you aren't. Theresa is a nice person, but she is a marketing person, with marketing for POTBS on her mind first and foremost.
I didn't say it made me special - I suggested it showed I am not just some PotBS hater., As for the marketting stuff, I know that as well - it is why I quit.
Originally posted by twhint
I remember the chat in IRC where you went ballistic over this issue and finally quit because everyone kept telling you to drop it. You seem intent on badmouthing the launcher without having any knowledge about it other than it is in beta right now. You haven't installed it, you haven't run it. Hell, you haven't even seen it run beyond screenshots. The people who are running it have been consistent in saying it had some nice features and that it wasn't actually that bad. But you can't seem to get past that it's Sony. Every post you make it's "Sony isn't bad, but they are the devil", which kind of belies your whole argument that you aren't bashing Sony.
Complete mischaracterization of the conversation in iRC, complete. I have plenty of knowledge of the launcher and have shared allot of it here including quotes from SoE and Sony people as to their future plans to really exploit the platform further. Sorry you ignore the evidence, and Sony/SoE's past but it is the case. I have seen the program, even run it on a virtual machine to see what it was like. But that is irrelevant to the fact that I am not an SoE games customer and the idea that I should have to install and run an application clearly designed to promote their games is ridiculous (not to mention the future plans to market much more through it). And I don't make posts about Sony/SoE being the devil, even in this thread I countered a guy who said Sony/SoE was evil - sorry you struggle with telling the truth so much and have to stoop to lying and mischaracterization to argue your point.
I will state it again to counter your misinformation. Sony/SoE is not evil, no company is evil IMHO. But many companies are incompetent or otherwise bad at what they do. Sony/SoE is bad at what they do. And to make it worse, they view customers as a means to Sony/SoE's ends and treat them accordingly. If you like companies that see you for what they can get from you without regard to what you really want then support Sony/SoE; however, if you prefer to do business with companies that seek to fulfill customer needs by providing a quality product then avoid Sony/SoE. this is not laming Sony/SoE as the devil - it is looking at history and the present and making a determination based on reasoned analysis of their actions - they are not evil, they are just incompetent in their methods and products and abusive with customers.
Perhaps that is because this site is free to use and advertising supported. Comparing the two isn't even remotely similar. Seriously though, people complain about SOE because they have employed some distasteful tactics in their attempts to build up thier revenues. People complain so much, because there is very good reasons to not trust SOE even though people trip over themselves to forgive this company. Consider the following.
Nothing with the SOE logo on it has had a decent launch or was released "finished" even by moderate standards. Some are the considered worst case examples. Most of their titles underwent massive sweeping changes that were very unsettling to the playerbase due to the above. Staion pass price increase, station pass price increase.... "premium" website extra charges Real money transfers thrust on the players of EQ2 causing a small riot and hints of other games. Extra money for adventure packs where most companies give similar content for free. expansions released so often and so unfinished that players formed a boycott in one game and headed off another by reassuring the players they would "slow down". They simply stopped making the rest of their titles. The NGE is just a prime example how the company chooses to cater to potential customers over their existing customers *and without an apology*. Real money for virtual cards and quasi RMT in games. Consider SOEs parent companys' involvement in Rootkit scandal and getting caught defrauding movie goers with false advertisment and also getting caught in a payola scam over radio time.
That is just stuff off the top of my head and just the "finincial" stuff and how everytime you turn around they are trying to stick their hands in your pocket for something that benefits SOE far more than it does the consumer. There are plenty of reasons for people to complain about the company and not trust them. Yet time and again people trip over themselves to forgive this company when they haven't really given any reason to believe they have changed. I'm sure people will stop bashing the company when they start doing things right. Until then though.
Quoted for truth. If Sony/SoE, or any of the defenders here, want people to stop talking about Sony/SoE in such a negative way then they should stop acting in such a way.
All you have to do is look at the fiasco currently brewing with the PotBS pre order. According to Misha (FLS DEV) a number of pre order boxes contained invalid keys and other problems (not to mention the SoE foul up that had them get to stores almost a month late). Additionally, the pre order key system is so convoluted and screwed up it is a pretty big question (even for the FLS folks) whether people will be able to get in on Monday when it starts. You get the order box and in it are two keys - one supposedly for pre order access and one for the pre order goodies. Most people would, as many did, take that key and go to the SoE site and enter it in their account using the active key links. Problem is, many times the keys get rejected as invalid or used and other time it takes the keys and shows the subscription properly only to then go wonky a few hours later showing no subscription and not allowing the key to be entered again saying it has been consumed. Now there is info on the site saying not to enter the keys until after the pre order date comes but that isn't listed on the SoE site or on the cards in the pre order boxes. It is just a total foul up waiting to happen and only a company like SoE could come up with such a stupid and ridiculous system.
Icing on the cake is that the entire game access shuts off on the live date if you don't immediately enter a retail key. So people who are waiting on shipping or even just waiting on the store to get their retail box in stock are screwed out of playing until it arrives. It is utterly ridiculous, but completely typical of the type of incompetence you get from SoE. So we are supposed to trust these morons to make a more complex launcher than the bad ones they already use and not expect an option to pass on it?
From the PotBS site FAQ on pre orders:
Q: I found a way to enter my Preboarding Party key sooner than 1/7 and I did so because I like to live dangerously. Now I am worried that I am completely screwed and will never be able to play. What does this mean?
A: You’re fine. You shouldn’t do this, because everyone who has done so has then become frightened and confused and started a new forum thread just to ask the above question. But if you do it anyway, you’re fine. We just don’t think you should because it’s not the right way to do it, and when you don’t do things the right way then the Bad Man comes out from under your bed and takes all the money the Tooth Fairy left. We’re just saying.
Some comments from FLS regarding the situation:
Misha; SOE checked the accounts of a few of you who have consumed the key and they say you're fine. They say, "Customers that have the pre-order key can consume it now... We'd like to discourage the key consumes prior to Jan 7 but consuming them now won't cause an issue." I'm not sure why they're discouraging it if it won't cause a problem. I would say, "use at your own risk."
Misha; The first time I read what SOE wrote, it sounded like it mattered where you got your key. The second time I read it, it sounded like I didn't so, rather than cause confusion, I didn't bring up that distinction. Given what some of you are seeing, I must've been right the first time. If you're key doesn't work today, don't stress on it. It'll work Monday.
Does this sound like something run by a competent company? Humor of the wording aside what kind of ridiculous system is in place that allows this type of thing to happen? Found a way to enter it - like people are doing something wrong going to their SoE account and using the enter key link there to enter the key? And who is the brainiac that think having everyone log in and enter keys and download and install the client at the same friggin time is a good idea? mind you, FLS is doing what they have always done scrambling to fix and deal with the SoE made mess, I am not criticizing them - just posting their comments to show the ridiculousness of the circumstance. Yet the go along with a company that dose this kind of crap regularly wanting to force the installation and use of an application clearly more complex and more feature filled than is necessary for the task relating directly to the game.
Understanding the pre order mess is a separate issue I mention here as an answer to the people calling out saying people critical of Sony/SoE are just complaining to complain. Nothing could be further from reality - this company has a long history of incompetence and worse, and that behavior continues to this day in just about everything they do for PotBS and elsewhere.
You're making my own argument for me. Your frustration is more from that most people don't think the way you do rather than SOE actually doing anything wrong in this case. You say you've run the beta launcher. Ok. So why is it bad then? What makes it so bad of an idea? All I'm hearing is you repeating over and over, like a broken record, that it is bad.
As far as a company thinking about its own ends rather than a customer's....well, HELLO? I'm under no illusion that anything any company does is geared for their own well-being rather than my own. You claim that SOE is bad at what it does, and yet it is still one of the more successful online software houses out there. That kind of puts a dent in your argument there.
Let me try to put it succinctly. Most companies don't care about their customer's except as a revenue stream. Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, SOE, NCSOFT, Bed Bath & Beyond, McDonalds, etc. You think any change they put in is for the customer's convenience? It's to make the customer spend more money, whether it be because they entice the customer or because they give them no other choice or limit their choices. So far your arguments are without any substance, trying to paint SOE with a broad paintbrush totally missing the point that all companies are like that, such as the point of someone else bringing Microsoft's name into play.
As to the whole beta key thing, and pre-order. Yes, I do think SOE screwed up and yes, I think it is totally their fault. I'm not worried about it because in the end it is still a game and I'll get to play it regardless, and depending on how bad they screw it up, might get something free out of it besides. Pre-order? They had it in stores well before the Jan. 7th date and it is available. Pre-boarding keys? Well, why did they not stick with the original idea and just have you enter them into a website as it says on the insert in the first place? I think that was a bad idea to move away from it, but I'm not going to lambast them for it yet. I'll wait and see how Jan. 7th comes around.
You're making my own argument for me. Your frustration is more from that most people don't think the way you do rather than SOE actually doing anything wrong in this case. You say you've run the beta launcher. Ok. So why is it bad then? What makes it so bad of an idea? All I'm hearing is you repeating over and over, like a broken record, that it is bad.
I have listed a number of reason all of which are entirely valid - the bloat of a program designed to do many things I have no interest in whatsoever and the overriding point of which is to promote Sony/SoE games, music, and movies. If you want those things then go get it - no argument there - but the fact that they have to force feed it to people to get it used demonstrates how utterly useless most people would find it.
Originally posted by twhint
As far as a company thinking about its own ends rather than a customer's....well, HELLO? I'm under no illusion that anything any company does is geared for their own well-being rather than my own. You claim that SOE is bad at what it does, and yet it is still one of the more successful online software houses out there. That kind of puts a dent in your argument there. Let me try to put it succinctly. Most companies don't care about their customer's except as a revenue stream. Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, SOE, NCSOFT, Bed Bath & Beyond, McDonalds, etc. You think any change they put in is for the customer's convenience? It's to make the customer spend more money, whether it be because they entice the customer or because they give them no other choice or limit their choices. So far your arguments are without any substance, trying to paint SOE with a broad paintbrush totally missing the point that all companies are like that, such as the point of someone else bringing Microsoft's name into play.
You are very wrong here. I am not lamenting a company that pursues profit - I applaud that. But there is a big difference between teh Sony/Soe way of using customers, even abusing them, to get what they want and working diligently to provide something people will want enough to choose to use it. The later is respectable and deserving of profit, the former tries to leverage things people want to force feed them things that they otherwise would not choose solely to benefit to company itself.
Originally posted by twhint
As to the whole beta key thing, and pre-order. Yes, I do think SOE screwed up and yes, I think it is totally their fault. I'm not worried about it because in the end it is still a game and I'll get to play it regardless, and depending on how bad they screw it up, might get something free out of it besides. Pre-order? They had it in stores well before the Jan. 7th date and it is available. Pre-boarding keys? Well, why did they not stick with the original idea and just have you enter them into a website as it says on the insert in the first place? I think that was a bad idea to move away from it, but I'm not going to lambast them for it yet. I'll wait and see how Jan. 7th comes around.
Regardless of whether things blow up tomorrow or not the system is flawed and the confusion is real. There is no excuse for a system this fouled up, but this is standard incompetence from SoE - same thing happened with Vanguard. Couple that with the history of Sony/SoE pre 2008/2007 and just the history of SoE with PotBS and the pattern of incompetence is amazing. So far, history aside, SoE has fouled up royally the patching process shutting out users for a week+ during closed beta and one of the Stress Tests, they where nearly a month late getting the pre order boxes in stores, the day after Christmas they turned off access to the open beta in error, and now the pre order key mess is brewing and come launch day anyone who is waiting for their order to arive or or the store to stock the game is SOL and unable to play through no fault of their own.
And you want to let this company install software more involved and pervasive than is absolutely minimally necessary to launch and authenticate the game? Go ahead if you want - but how can you argue that is reasonable or appropriate that everyone be forced to? And it is a valid question to ask of FLS what they are doing goign aon gwith all this - are they co-opted completely by SoE, are they complicit in this kind of poor decisions and customer treatment? Or are they just powerless to do anything about it? Either way it is a good question to raise given all the talk early on from FLS about how SoE was not in charge and nto going to take over or otherwise control things.
I read the first couple of pages of this topic and though i would post my take on the situation.
WTF is everyone moaning about - I have steam, ncsoft games, station launcher, etc - NOT ONE of these programs HAS to be started with windows, i start the launcher when I want to run the relevant game if needed and set the program not to start with windows - where is the problem - the launcher can also be merrily exited when play finishes - I DONT NEED to leave it running ?
I think some people are just here to gripe about SOE, and no I dont particularly like them, I had a master DE during early SWG and left when the changes came, I got burnt out on EQ1 and EQ2 and found raiding tedious and I hated what happened to the rather boring Vanguard also, but at the end of the day they publish other peoples titles and if one interest me (like POTBS does at the moment) I will still give it a go regardless of SOE being involved.
You are very wrong here. I am not lamenting a company that pursues profit - I applaud that. But there is a big difference between teh Sony/Soe way of using customers, even abusing them, to get what they want and working diligently to provide something people will want enough to choose to use it. The later is respectable and deserving of profit, the former tries to leverage things people want to force feed them things that they otherwise would not choose solely to benefit to company itself.
Regardless of whether things blow up tomorrow or not the system is flawed and the confusion is real. There is no excuse for a system this fouled up, but this is standard incompetence from SoE - same thing happened with Vanguard. Couple that with the history of Sony/SoE pre 2008/2007 and just the history of SoE with PotBS and the pattern of incompetence is amazing. So far, history aside, SoE has fouled up royally the patching process shutting out users for a week+ during closed beta and one of the Stress Tests, they where nearly a month late getting the pre order boxes in stores, the day after Christmas they turned off access to the open beta in error, and now the pre order key mess is brewing and come launch day anyone who is waiting for their order to arive or or the store to stock the game is SOL and unable to play through no fault of their own.
And you want to let this company install software more involved and pervasive than is absolutely minimally necessary to launch and authenticate the game? Go ahead if you want - but how can you argue that is reasonable or appropriate that everyone be forced to? And it is a valid question to ask of FLS what they are doing goign aon gwith all this - are they co-opted completely by SoE, are they complicit in this kind of poor decisions and customer treatment? Or are they just powerless to do anything about it? Either way it is a good question to raise given all the talk early on from FLS about how SoE was not in charge and nto going to take over or otherwise control things.
Why are you running Windows then? That would be the most obvious question, since you seem to be against software that forces you to do what the company wants, rather than vice versa.
As to your questions about FLS vs. SOE, it's not even a question of SOE muscling in on anything. You're trying to take things that have no correlation between them and make something of it. FLS is developing the game. SOE has no say on that. What SOE does have a say in, is how that game launches through their system. It's like a book that I write and send to someone who decides to publish it. I choose what's in the book, but they choose how it is published and sent to the retailers around the world. That's the way the world works. In rare instances, someone is able to go beyond those parameters, but that is few and far between, and more often than not, it goes the other way. Again, all your argument comes down to is how bad SOE is and that we shouldn't do business with them, ie. a Sony bashing message.
I bit the bullet and downloaded the beta launcher (heh might as well anyway right? going to have to use it if i wanna play eq2.. and quiting a game i enjoy over a launcher is silly now that i'm thinking about it).
I must say.. the speculations people have put into my head are all freaken WRONG. It's EXACTLY like NCLauncher, which DOESN'T start on startup (you can make it do this though) and DOESN'T sit in your systray constatly (you can make it do this as well).
You click the shortcut to your game. It launchers like it always has. Loads up the new launcher instead of the eq2ified launchpad. Login. Checks updates. Launches game. CLOSES IT SELF!
Not to mention the download speeds on this thing is INCREDIBLE. MUCH faster then the other pile of crap.
So I deeply appologize for the misinformation i've given about the new launcher on this thread.
Let me just say you have NOTHING to worry about. It works very nicely.
Only valid complaint I can see is it's somewhat of an advertisement of their other games, which isn't fair to POTBS due to it not being SOEs game.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Not to mention that since it is still beta Sony proper hasn't piled in their music and movie BS yet. nonetheless, it is still a promotional tool for SoE games and people who don't want anything to do with those things shouldn't be forced to run what amounts to an advertisement on their desktop. And I have to question the idea that some new launcher patches faster than an old one - the rate at which data transfers, unless artificially capped on old launchers, has to do with the server and client available bandwidth and not anything at the application layer.
I don't think anyone here, myself included, is telling people to use it or not use it those of us against it only want to be allowed to skip SoE's version of iTunes especially seeing as we are not playing any SoE games.
Comments
My concerns with SOE's involvement in this game are pretty simple...
1. I think this will have to be a niche game, focused on that niche, to be successful. An attempt to please every MMO'er out there will only result in less time spent on crafting and ship combat and content, the things that makes this game worth playing (for those that are into it).
2. Niche games generally will have 30k to 200k subscribers, which is (particularly on the high end) enough to make it a nice, profitable venture...but no where near the WoW numbers.
3. SOE has time and time again displayed a strong desire to be like and compete with WoW, and I'm not sure they'd be happy with a niche game with that kind of performance.
Yes, this is ALL speculation and opinion, and not remotely me stating fact or claiming to be right...but that's what I'd be wary of if I were to subscribe to this game. SOE stepping in or strong arming the developers into WoW-ifying the game more and more at the expense of it's strengths.
In reading this I simply see another bash SOE thread. Very little is constructive in the conversation here.
I have been actually using the launcher for months now (it is not as new as people think even though it is in beta). It is not a big program and, if you have a station pass, is convenient. It does not have to be in the system tray or start up. I opted out of that. I can still launch individual games from their own launchpad.
This launcher is NOT A BIG DEAL. Heck, Steam is far more clunky and not nearly as useful due to the fact that valve does not have any MMOs (good multiplayer stuff though). You can make it so Steam does not automatically launch or show up in your system tray too. I think, from user experience, that Steam is far worse a tool then the SOE launcher. If simply for the fact you need to use it to play single player HL2.
Anyway, take a step back from your pure hate relationship with SOE and see this for what it is and you will see it is not such a big thing, nor the end of the wold for POTBS, or your gaming rig.
Personally, since I do have a station pass I actually like it. It gives easy access to the games, your account, the game web sites, etc. It is actually a good marketing tool though as it got me looking at Legends of Norath and Pirates online card games too. I have not started playing those but who knows.
In the end, the lauuncher is convenient for me to use, has quick access, and I opted not to have it launch at start up. Once launched it take up virtually no resources and is not a big program to begin with. I have suffered no performance issues due to the launcher and it works every time! This is a real user experience.
Swbghz, we both know the Boarding Party is a big marketing scheme and that everyone is invited to join. If you feel that makes you part of the elite or special, then I hate to tell you, but you aren't. Theresa is a nice person, but she is a marketing person, with marketing for POTBS on her mind first and foremost.
I remember the chat in IRC where you went ballistic over this issue and finally quit because everyone kept telling you to drop it. You seem intent on badmouthing the launcher without having any knowledge about it other than it is in beta right now. You haven't installed it, you haven't run it. Hell, you haven't even seen it run beyond screenshots. The people who are running it have been consistent in saying it had some nice features and that it wasn't actually that bad. But you can't seem to get past that it's Sony. Every post you make it's "Sony isn't bad, but they are the devil", which kind of belies your whole argument that you aren't bashing Sony.
To clear up the confusion: YES, YOU WILL HAVE TO INSTALL THE SONY LAUNCHER IN ORDER TO PLAY POTBS.
While the game itself is not Sony developed, it is being run under the Sony platform. This has many benefits for a small studio like FLS, regardless of what some naysayers say. SOE has some bad track records, (SWG, Vanguard) but then again, what studio doesn't? NCSoft has their Lineage 2. Turbine has their Asheron's Call 2. Blizzard has their WoW. But guess what....people still play those games and actually like them. So you're not speaking for everyone, like you seem to think you are. You're actually a minority! Wow....what a revelation!
If you are paranoid that SOE is out to take over your computer, then don't run it. Don't run Gamespy either. Or Xfire. Or Steam. Or NCsoft. Or pretty much any other major publishing platform that is looking to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole.
As far as using the platform to advertise, well, it's the same as when I visit a website. It's there and it's always gonna be there. I'll just ignore it until that one time when it actually works and I see something that I would actually consider buying after I do some research on it.
Ack! Trying to combine a lot of products into one seamless whole....this sounds like Windows. I now suspect that the evil people at Microsoft are trying to take over my computer! I'll bet that Smedley and Gates have lunch together and plot to take over my computer!
Linna
No offense, but learn to freaken read. I've said this about 5 times now: LOOK AT THE BLUE TEXTYes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game. The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
Perhaps that is because this site is free to use and advertising supported. Comparing the two isn't even remotely similar.
Seriously though, people complain about SOE because they have employed some distasteful tactics in their attempts to build up thier revenues. People complain so much, because there is very good reasons to not trust SOE even though people trip over themselves to forgive this company.
Consider the following.
That is just stuff off the top of my head and just the "finincial" stuff and how everytime you turn around they are trying to stick their hands in your pocket for something that benefits SOE far more than it does the consumer. There are plenty of reasons for people to complain about the company and not trust them. Yet time and again people trip over themselves to forgive this company when they haven't really given any reason to believe they have changed.
I'm sure people will stop bashing the company when they start doing things right. Until then though.
What gets me on this is the way FLS is spouting the SoE line. On the one hand I have little doubt that FLS is in control of the game itself but seeing how they can go from the people assuring everyone that SoE was only publishing to now being fully supportive of the requirement (when out of beta) to use this Station advertiser for you to be able to play an FLS game. I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before other SoE practices are full endorsed and supported by FLS - will we see ships and swords and things like that on sale like in other SoE games? Who knows, if they are either required or simply willing to let SoE force this down their customers throats despite all those assurances that this was NOT an SoE game then anything is not only possible but plausible.
I for one won't ever install a program like this - just on principle alone and not even deciding on the trust issue with Sony/SoE. How long it takes to become a requirement is unknown, but more than anything I think it is a serious let down to see FLS caving or going along on something like this despite all those assurances.
I allready pre ordered and will follow through and play - but I will find it very hard to subscribe given the lack of support from FLS for those not interested in Station software that does nothing but advertise and promote SoE games I would never want to play. Who knows, maybe nothing more comes of this in terms of SoE influencing FLS, but that seems quite questionable to me at this point.
You sound like the guy who spout this same argument off on the official forums about SOE's launcher. Since I am almost certain you are, here goes a brief summary to everyone else on how this ended over there. The lead developer for FLS (who happens to be very forum active) responded I believe not once but four times to your thread. Your arguments were that SOE is bad, Sony had root kit, soe has made mistakes, don't trust SOE, closed beta launcher had a problem one patch, chances are the new launcher will suck. Rusty, the lead developer, told you that you have been using the SOE throughout beta. The problem with the patch was the way their files were encoded going to SOE launcher (meaning SOE wasn't at fault, FLS was) and that has since been corrected. In fact, Rusty is looking forward to using the new launcher as the old was is well....ancient. He also mentioned how he can share your horrible stories and probably has more. He stated he was employed while STEAM was being developed over at that company and has seen the problems that goes on with what seems to be such a simple task and that is why the new launcher has taken so long (not your dooms day theory). A few users reported minor problems with the BETA launcher, but more had no problems at all with it and said it works rather nicely
Summary: You have semi-legitimiate concerns. You express them over and over in a rather exaggerated manner. Your concerns have been addressed by FLS, yet you keep them. Although this is understandable, do not act like you have absolute knowledge on this and that your doom's day "OMG FLS SOLD OUT" theory is correct since nothing has changed since day 1.
The NGE was LAs fault, but it's a prime example of what they are doing and how people will react. The game was fine. People enjoyed it, but they insisted on fixing what wasn't broken. There was no customer choice. They FORCED it down peoples throats. The dedicated as well as the new players all got FKED! They're going exactly that with this dumbass launcher.
If it was optional then it'd be a different story and you wouldn't hear a word from me. Customers don't even have a chance to argue it because from in-game -NO ONE- has even HEARD of this new launcher. So how the hell are they going to know it needs to be optional before it's to late? They won't. Why? Because SOE is doing it in the shadows and not informing their customers. They're screwing us.
For the record. I don't use gamespy, xfire, or ncplay for the same reasons. I don't need the shit on my system. Therefor I don't have it installed. You don't need either of them to play games. They're an option. Some people like them. Others don't. I am a person that doesn't and plenty other companies provide alternatives that don't want that shit installed. So is it that hard for SOE to just keep the freaken LaunchPads and let everyone be happy? Apparantly so.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
Yes, because the whole 2-10 beta testers for the launcher represent the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break.
I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. If they plan to cram something like this down our throats. Then they need to be a bit more informative about it. Maybe, I dunno, have it as a message in the games launchers perhaps? HOLY CRAP! BRILLIANT IDEA! Advertise about the new launcher. IN THE OLD LAUNCHER! Never know that'd work so well!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
I see this has brought out alot of drama queens and the OP seems to be the king. King of the drama Queens.....hmmmm.
I also see a tremendous amount of speculation. When the new launcher comes out of beta and is a requirement I imagine we will know exactly what it does. I know it will be reverse engineered and picked apart by many groups. Groups that like doing things like that.....many in the hopes of finding a little dirt on Sony.
Until then I will put my tinfoil hat back in the closet and hope FLS continues to make the right decisions concerning game play. Which brings up something else I'd like to touch on.
FLS's decision to partner up with SOE. Yes, it is a partnership. Controlled, but none the less a partnership. I feel this decision was made to ultimately create a better game. FLS didn't want to deal with all the BS that goes along with publishing a game. They want to focus on creating games.
FLS has been more open and honest about what's going on than any company I have ever dealt with. Brutally honest. No half truths, no blatant BS, no "No Comment" responses. FLS you have sold me on your integrity as a company. Period.
I will purchase the game, which I happen to enjoy, and hope FLS continues with the precedent they have set.
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/
I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break! LOL... wow...
As opposed to your voice that obviously represents more of a majority.You act like this is done in secrecy. Is it really?...NO. It is on the main page that the new launcher is in beta testing on the SOE page. Under its FAQ it states that you will have to use it after beta is over. If a player doesn't take their head out of a game to notice changes that will happen (that most likely won't matter), you can't say it's done in secrecy.
You just assume that because nobody knows about it then it is automatically bad and will not work. Get over yourself.
Yes, because the whole 2-10 beta testers for the launcher represent the ENTIRE community. Give me a fking break.I've asked several times in EQ2 if people have been informed of the upcoming steam like SOE game launcher that will be FORCED upon them. Guess what? I didn't find even 1 person that even KNEW the damn thing existed. All of this at PRIME TIME.
The fact of the matter is they are doing it basically in secrecy. Apparantly they assume if they use few people who make postive remarks about it. Those few are a representation of the ENTIRE community. Give me a freaken break! LOL... wow...
As opposed to your voice that obviously represents more of a majority.You act like this is done in secrecy. Is it really?...NO. It is on the main page that the new launcher is in beta testing on the SOE page. Under its FAQ it states that you will have to use it after beta is over. If a player doesn't take their head out of a game to notice changes that will happen (that most likely won't matter), you can't say it's done in secrecy.
You just assume that because nobody knows about it then it is automatically bad and will not work. Get over yourself.
The average player isn't going to go researching whether a new stupid launcher is coming into play.
When you develop something like that and plan to force it upon players then the general populas NEEDS to be informed.
This is NOT the case. Therefor it is being done in secrecy. The average player just clicks the shortcut and logins then players. They arn't aware of this new launcher and could be as upset about it as I am. I know for a fact about 20 of my friends ingame arn't to happy with such a thing either as well as they're more pissed at the fact it wasn't advertised properly so they could be informed about it.
You can't expect people to research shit that you should be reaching out to them with. That's like making a new damn game, but not advertising it. It's pure idiocy.
BTW most people who do go to their games site don't go to station.com.. they go to the actual games site. Please tell me where I can clearly see information for the new launcher at everquest2.com? Where? Please show me. I'm begging you. OH YOU CAN'T, because it isn't there! That's not counting the players who just bookmark the forums and skip the non-informative site in the first damn place or people who simply rely on sites like eq2.wikia.com and never need to visit the official site, which the majority do. At least during prime time a large sum of people don't.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
I think SOE handled their beta of this launch client the right way. Due to an unfortunate situation right now, any change they make is automatically subjected to the constant barrages of "SOE WILL RUIN THE WORLD LIKE NGE". They put it out there on their main page with an FAQ answering all questions about it. Announcing it further would just invite people like you. There is barely much of a difference in that client versus the ones now. POTBS launch client is 20.1 mb, it is 20.3 mbs. It allows resources to be saved so that individual launchers don't have to be maintained. It allows people with station access to fully access the whole system. It also advertises SOE products without being too intrusive from what I've seen. NcSoft has the same type of client and I actually like it. There is a minor difference (login is handled in game rather than in client therefore you can bypass the big launcher) but due to the different corporate structures (Sony publishes in addition to owning/operating therefore has to initiate billing's checks before sending to servers) this can't be done exactlly. It also allows for updates of different games while playing others or while idling or at work (server down and you download when it comes back up).
You have a reasonable argument. This could have problems. This isn't overly advertised. The thing is that it makes since from a practical level. This criticism is nothing but SOE trolling. The worst case is that this adds ~20 mb extra in space to your computer which is hardly anything by today's standards.
Who says it's a requirement? Did some checking last night, and it says NOWHERE that you have to. SOE advises to use it for trickle download, but unless you install that stupid beta piece of bloatware, the regular patcher is what comes up when you click the PotBS icon. Same as for NCsoft, really: they too have this integrated launcher, that shows all your NCSoft installations (including betas), but you do NOT need it to start one single NCSoft game.Linna
No offense, but learn to freaken read. I've said this about 5 times now: LOOK AT THE BLUE TEXTYes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game. The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
Well, mr hostile, maybe YOU need to learn how to read. In context, that is. Me and the poster before me are talking about the PotBS launch. YOU are talking about a SOE launcher that is in open beta, AND NOT YET IN LIVE. Could you please remove that stick out of your [censored] and stop attacking people?
NO, you do not need to install the new SOE launcher to start playing the game on Monday. Patching will probably be longer if you don't use it (trickle download before launch), but you are completely able to just patch when the server goes up at 10 AM.
Also, if the equally annoying new NCSoft launcher is anything to go by, you can just turn the damn thing off as soon as the game is launched.
Thanks.
Linna
They are also using PotBS to market SOE products. Real cheesey and lowdown if you ask me.
Products like?
Products like SoE games and as the quotes I listed mention Sony music and movies. The issue is not whether such a program might be good for some, the issue to me is in forcing people to use it to play a game that is nto even SoE's, and how FLS could go back on their promises of no SoE control and such and let them do this.
Currently, while the Station launcher is in beta you can use the old launchpads - once it gets out of beta it will be required according to their own website and even comments from Rusty on the subject.
I don't get any ads here because I use Firefox to block such things. If I couldn't clock those ads I would not bother with sites like this. But that being said, it is one thing for a free resource to use ads for money, it is another entirely to pay to play a game like PotBS and be told you have to take a program designed to market and promote Sony/SoE products as well.
Exactly. As the one guy said back a few pages ago SoE has had this type of thing for a while, but people chose not to use it because ultimately, it offered them nothing they wanted. So now they are overiding consumer choice and forcing it on people instead of earning that spot on the desktop making something that people want.
And to make it worse, they are doing this with a game that is not theirs - a game FLS has talked up and down about being independent from SoE. So much for that.
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Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
They are also using PotBS to market SOE products. Real cheesey and lowdown if you ask me.
Products like?
Products like SoE games and as the quotes I listed mention Sony music and movies. The issue is not whether such a program might be good for some, the issue to me is in forcing people to use it to play a game that is nto even SoE's, and how FLS could go back on their promises of no SoE control and such and let them do this.
Currently, while the Station launcher is in beta you can use the old launchpads - once it gets out of beta it will be required according to their own website and even comments from Rusty on the subject.
SOE controls billing and account verification. Part of their billing process includes station pass which grants access to the game. As I stated before, this is a good thing for people with the pass. Your music and movies is not something that is currently involved in the beta launcher nor is it in any of the patch notes I have found. In order for SOE to have control, that means they are going against the consent of FLS. FLS has stated on the burningsea.com forums that they are looking forward to the new launcher since it will be much better. You are making assumptions and predictions that are only circumstantial and pure speculation.
SOE controls billing and account verification. Part of their billing process includes station pass which grants access to the game. As I stated before, this is a good thing for people with the pass. Your music and movies is not something that is currently involved in the beta launcher nor is it in any of the patch notes I have found. In order for SOE to have control, that means they are going against the consent of FLS. FLS has stated on the burningsea.com forums that they are looking forward to the new launcher since it will be much better. You are making assumptions and predictions that are only circumstantial and pure speculation.
It will be required to play potBS when it is out of beta so nothing I have said is wrong or exagerated. Sony and SoE comments are all over the web about their future plans to use it for music and moves and such so agian, perfectly accurate. So what it amounts to is SoE is leveraging a game like FLS to push Sony/SoE products - that CLEARLY goes against the control and no interferance promises from FLS and is enough to make me what is next.
Again, look at the website saying it will be required. Eve Rusty over on the PotBS site has acknowledged as much. While still in beta the new launcher is optional, when out of beta it will be required.
Yes. To play your Station game you must enter the game through the Station Launcher; it must be installed on your PC in order for you to play and/or download any game. The Station Launcher automatically verifies that you are a licensed entitled user of your purchased Station game and/or subscription plan. During the Public Beta you can launch your games with either Station Launcher or the older, game-specific LaunchPads. After the Public Beta is over, Station Launcher will be the only way to launch Station Games. Please use the Feedback button on the Game Select Screen of the Station Launcher or go directly to the Station Launcher forums to tell us what you think!
I didn't say it made me special - I suggested it showed I am not just some PotBS hater., As for the marketting stuff, I know that as well - it is why I quit.
Complete mischaracterization of the conversation in iRC, complete. I have plenty of knowledge of the launcher and have shared allot of it here including quotes from SoE and Sony people as to their future plans to really exploit the platform further. Sorry you ignore the evidence, and Sony/SoE's past but it is the case. I have seen the program, even run it on a virtual machine to see what it was like. But that is irrelevant to the fact that I am not an SoE games customer and the idea that I should have to install and run an application clearly designed to promote their games is ridiculous (not to mention the future plans to market much more through it). And I don't make posts about Sony/SoE being the devil, even in this thread I countered a guy who said Sony/SoE was evil - sorry you struggle with telling the truth so much and have to stoop to lying and mischaracterization to argue your point.
I will state it again to counter your misinformation. Sony/SoE is not evil, no company is evil IMHO. But many companies are incompetent or otherwise bad at what they do. Sony/SoE is bad at what they do. And to make it worse, they view customers as a means to Sony/SoE's ends and treat them accordingly. If you like companies that see you for what they can get from you without regard to what you really want then support Sony/SoE; however, if you prefer to do business with companies that seek to fulfill customer needs by providing a quality product then avoid Sony/SoE. this is not laming Sony/SoE as the devil - it is looking at history and the present and making a determination based on reasoned analysis of their actions - they are not evil, they are just incompetent in their methods and products and abusive with customers.
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Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
It does not, unless you change it:
Start automatically with windows, not on default.
Log in automatically, not on default.
Update games automatically, not on default.
Need to be run prior to starting a game. You start the game with its game icon. Which will use the same procedure as the launchpads.
Need to be run during playing a game. Is running default after the game initally launched.
Need to run after one closes the window. Is running default minimized after first start.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Quoted for truth. If Sony/SoE, or any of the defenders here, want people to stop talking about Sony/SoE in such a negative way then they should stop acting in such a way.
All you have to do is look at the fiasco currently brewing with the PotBS pre order. According to Misha (FLS DEV) a number of pre order boxes contained invalid keys and other problems (not to mention the SoE foul up that had them get to stores almost a month late). Additionally, the pre order key system is so convoluted and screwed up it is a pretty big question (even for the FLS folks) whether people will be able to get in on Monday when it starts. You get the order box and in it are two keys - one supposedly for pre order access and one for the pre order goodies. Most people would, as many did, take that key and go to the SoE site and enter it in their account using the active key links. Problem is, many times the keys get rejected as invalid or used and other time it takes the keys and shows the subscription properly only to then go wonky a few hours later showing no subscription and not allowing the key to be entered again saying it has been consumed. Now there is info on the site saying not to enter the keys until after the pre order date comes but that isn't listed on the SoE site or on the cards in the pre order boxes. It is just a total foul up waiting to happen and only a company like SoE could come up with such a stupid and ridiculous system.
Icing on the cake is that the entire game access shuts off on the live date if you don't immediately enter a retail key. So people who are waiting on shipping or even just waiting on the store to get their retail box in stock are screwed out of playing until it arrives. It is utterly ridiculous, but completely typical of the type of incompetence you get from SoE. So we are supposed to trust these morons to make a more complex launcher than the bad ones they already use and not expect an option to pass on it?
From the PotBS site FAQ on pre orders:
Q: I found a way to enter my Preboarding Party key sooner than 1/7 and I did so because I like to live dangerously. Now I am worried that I am completely screwed and will never be able to play. What does this mean?
A: You’re fine. You shouldn’t do this, because everyone who has done so has then become frightened and confused and started a new forum thread just to ask the above question. But if you do it anyway, you’re fine. We just don’t think you should because it’s not the right way to do it, and when you don’t do things the right way then the Bad Man comes out from under your bed and takes all the money the Tooth Fairy left. We’re just saying.
Some comments from FLS regarding the situation:
Misha; SOE checked the accounts of a few of you who have consumed the key and they say you're fine. They say, "Customers that have the pre-order key can consume it now... We'd like to discourage the key consumes prior to Jan 7 but consuming them now won't cause an issue." I'm not sure why they're discouraging it if it won't cause a problem. I would say, "use at your own risk."
Misha; The first time I read what SOE wrote, it sounded like it mattered where you got your key. The second time I read it, it sounded like I didn't so, rather than cause confusion, I didn't bring up that distinction. Given what some of you are seeing, I must've been right the first time. If you're key doesn't work today, don't stress on it. It'll work Monday.
Does this sound like something run by a competent company? Humor of the wording aside what kind of ridiculous system is in place that allows this type of thing to happen? Found a way to enter it - like people are doing something wrong going to their SoE account and using the enter key link there to enter the key? And who is the brainiac that think having everyone log in and enter keys and download and install the client at the same friggin time is a good idea? mind you, FLS is doing what they have always done scrambling to fix and deal with the SoE made mess, I am not criticizing them - just posting their comments to show the ridiculousness of the circumstance. Yet the go along with a company that dose this kind of crap regularly wanting to force the installation and use of an application clearly more complex and more feature filled than is necessary for the task relating directly to the game.
Understanding the pre order mess is a separate issue I mention here as an answer to the people calling out saying people critical of Sony/SoE are just complaining to complain. Nothing could be further from reality - this company has a long history of incompetence and worse, and that behavior continues to this day in just about everything they do for PotBS and elsewhere.
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You're making my own argument for me. Your frustration is more from that most people don't think the way you do rather than SOE actually doing anything wrong in this case. You say you've run the beta launcher. Ok. So why is it bad then? What makes it so bad of an idea? All I'm hearing is you repeating over and over, like a broken record, that it is bad.
As far as a company thinking about its own ends rather than a customer's....well, HELLO? I'm under no illusion that anything any company does is geared for their own well-being rather than my own. You claim that SOE is bad at what it does, and yet it is still one of the more successful online software houses out there. That kind of puts a dent in your argument there.
Let me try to put it succinctly. Most companies don't care about their customer's except as a revenue stream. Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, SOE, NCSOFT, Bed Bath & Beyond, McDonalds, etc. You think any change they put in is for the customer's convenience? It's to make the customer spend more money, whether it be because they entice the customer or because they give them no other choice or limit their choices. So far your arguments are without any substance, trying to paint SOE with a broad paintbrush totally missing the point that all companies are like that, such as the point of someone else bringing Microsoft's name into play.
As to the whole beta key thing, and pre-order. Yes, I do think SOE screwed up and yes, I think it is totally their fault. I'm not worried about it because in the end it is still a game and I'll get to play it regardless, and depending on how bad they screw it up, might get something free out of it besides. Pre-order? They had it in stores well before the Jan. 7th date and it is available. Pre-boarding keys? Well, why did they not stick with the original idea and just have you enter them into a website as it says on the insert in the first place? I think that was a bad idea to move away from it, but I'm not going to lambast them for it yet. I'll wait and see how Jan. 7th comes around.
I have listed a number of reason all of which are entirely valid - the bloat of a program designed to do many things I have no interest in whatsoever and the overriding point of which is to promote Sony/SoE games, music, and movies. If you want those things then go get it - no argument there - but the fact that they have to force feed it to people to get it used demonstrates how utterly useless most people would find it.
You are very wrong here. I am not lamenting a company that pursues profit - I applaud that. But there is a big difference between teh Sony/Soe way of using customers, even abusing them, to get what they want and working diligently to provide something people will want enough to choose to use it. The later is respectable and deserving of profit, the former tries to leverage things people want to force feed them things that they otherwise would not choose solely to benefit to company itself.
Regardless of whether things blow up tomorrow or not the system is flawed and the confusion is real. There is no excuse for a system this fouled up, but this is standard incompetence from SoE - same thing happened with Vanguard. Couple that with the history of Sony/SoE pre 2008/2007 and just the history of SoE with PotBS and the pattern of incompetence is amazing. So far, history aside, SoE has fouled up royally the patching process shutting out users for a week+ during closed beta and one of the Stress Tests, they where nearly a month late getting the pre order boxes in stores, the day after Christmas they turned off access to the open beta in error, and now the pre order key mess is brewing and come launch day anyone who is waiting for their order to arive or or the store to stock the game is SOL and unable to play through no fault of their own.
And you want to let this company install software more involved and pervasive than is absolutely minimally necessary to launch and authenticate the game? Go ahead if you want - but how can you argue that is reasonable or appropriate that everyone be forced to? And it is a valid question to ask of FLS what they are doing goign aon gwith all this - are they co-opted completely by SoE, are they complicit in this kind of poor decisions and customer treatment? Or are they just powerless to do anything about it? Either way it is a good question to raise given all the talk early on from FLS about how SoE was not in charge and nto going to take over or otherwise control things.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I read the first couple of pages of this topic and though i would post my take on the situation.
WTF is everyone moaning about - I have steam, ncsoft games, station launcher, etc - NOT ONE of these programs HAS to be started with windows, i start the launcher when I want to run the relevant game if needed and set the program not to start with windows - where is the problem - the launcher can also be merrily exited when play finishes - I DONT NEED to leave it running ?
I think some people are just here to gripe about SOE, and no I dont particularly like them, I had a master DE during early SWG and left when the changes came, I got burnt out on EQ1 and EQ2 and found raiding tedious and I hated what happened to the rather boring Vanguard also, but at the end of the day they publish other peoples titles and if one interest me (like POTBS does at the moment) I will still give it a go regardless of SOE being involved.
Why are you running Windows then? That would be the most obvious question, since you seem to be against software that forces you to do what the company wants, rather than vice versa.
As to your questions about FLS vs. SOE, it's not even a question of SOE muscling in on anything. You're trying to take things that have no correlation between them and make something of it. FLS is developing the game. SOE has no say on that. What SOE does have a say in, is how that game launches through their system. It's like a book that I write and send to someone who decides to publish it. I choose what's in the book, but they choose how it is published and sent to the retailers around the world. That's the way the world works. In rare instances, someone is able to go beyond those parameters, but that is few and far between, and more often than not, it goes the other way. Again, all your argument comes down to is how bad SOE is and that we shouldn't do business with them, ie. a Sony bashing message.
I bit the bullet and downloaded the beta launcher (heh might as well anyway right? going to have to use it if i wanna play eq2.. and quiting a game i enjoy over a launcher is silly now that i'm thinking about it).
I must say.. the speculations people have put into my head are all freaken WRONG. It's EXACTLY like NCLauncher, which DOESN'T start on startup (you can make it do this though) and DOESN'T sit in your systray constatly (you can make it do this as well).
You click the shortcut to your game. It launchers like it always has. Loads up the new launcher instead of the eq2ified launchpad. Login. Checks updates. Launches game. CLOSES IT SELF!
Not to mention the download speeds on this thing is INCREDIBLE. MUCH faster then the other pile of crap.
So I deeply appologize for the misinformation i've given about the new launcher on this thread.
Let me just say you have NOTHING to worry about. It works very nicely.
Only valid complaint I can see is it's somewhat of an advertisement of their other games, which isn't fair to POTBS due to it not being SOEs game.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
Not to mention that since it is still beta Sony proper hasn't piled in their music and movie BS yet. nonetheless, it is still a promotional tool for SoE games and people who don't want anything to do with those things shouldn't be forced to run what amounts to an advertisement on their desktop. And I have to question the idea that some new launcher patches faster than an old one - the rate at which data transfers, unless artificially capped on old launchers, has to do with the server and client available bandwidth and not anything at the application layer.
I don't think anyone here, myself included, is telling people to use it or not use it those of us against it only want to be allowed to skip SoE's version of iTunes especially seeing as we are not playing any SoE games.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD