"Great subscriber bases for EverQuest and EverQuest 2 and Galaxies, pretty much. As long as people pay us money we'll keep running it. We've refocused on one expansion a year with these games now, I think we let quality slip too much when we were doing two, and I'm happy with where we are on that. We have a great player base and we're making some money so there's no point in not continuing." SOE is such a messed up pos company. I'm not buying anything of them ever again.
What is so wrong with the above statement. Would you be more happy if he said , "Even though we have people who enjoy playing EQ and SWG we are going to shut them down, screw em".
They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that. So they are dropping some support, so they are not adding content as fast, So What. I doubt EQ and SWG are making them alot of money. SOE should be applauded for keeping these games alive when they could just kill them and move on. There are plenty of people still upset that AC2 just shut down without alot of warning, would it be better if SOE did the same thing.
And everyone is getting so upset about SOE selling in game items. True this is about greed but that is all that it is about, there is nothing more to get upset about. In game items have been sold since EQ started, Characters have been sold since EQ started, this happens in every game. I can go onto Playerauctions and buy a maxed out WoW account right now if i want to. So it is pure evil that the guys running the game say "Hey, people are selling stuff from our game and getting money for it, why dont we just sell stuff from our game so others cant make money off it".
It certainly isnt like if SOE didnt sell items then items would not be sold. I guess it is just silly and wrong to buy a bad ass sword drop from some dude on Playerauctions but it is just pure evil to buy it directly from SOE.
Do i approve of the idea, no not really, but i also dont really care all that much. So some guy may buy some stuff that lets him level faster then me, who cares, it wont really affect my game at all. Now for a big time PVP game this would be more of issue but most SOE games dont do much PVP.
I am quite sure that if Smed did an interview and in that interview he said that Corn Flakes were the best cerial EVER people would come on here to bitch about what he said.
SOE is not the first company to have item stores, nor will they be the last company to have them. Like it or not.
"Great subscriber bases for EverQuest and EverQuest 2 and Galaxies, pretty much. As long as people pay us money we'll keep running it. We've refocused on one expansion a year with these games now, I think we let quality slip too much when we were doing two, and I'm happy with where we are on that. We have a great player base and we're making some money so there's no point in not continuing." SOE is such a messed up pos company. I'm not buying anything of them ever again.
What is so wrong with the above statement. Would you be more happy if he said , "Even though we have people who enjoy playing EQ and SWG we are going to shut them down, screw em".
They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is, their service went from bad to horrible.
EQ has daily server crashes, just check out the boards, they crashed 2 times today again, I just went to look.
But they continue to ask the same amount of 15$ / month.
It's called......*drums*
-Ripping people off-
lol.
And people often don't 'like to play', let's be honest and not naive, most are addicted to these games, they'd pay 30$ / month if SOE said so. It's exploitation.
Doesn't surprise me Smedley would come up with such a thing, its just like RF-Online / Archlord and what not that codemasters is running, free to play but with a ingame cash shop thing were you can buy items that enhances your game experience.
"Great subscriber bases for EverQuest and EverQuest 2 and Galaxies, pretty much. As long as people pay us money we'll keep running it. We've refocused on one expansion a year with these games now, I think we let quality slip too much when we were doing two, and I'm happy with where we are on that. We have a great player base and we're making some money so there's no point in not continuing." SOE is such a messed up pos company. I'm not buying anything of them ever again.
What is so wrong with the above statement. Would you be more happy if he said , "Even though we have people who enjoy playing EQ and SWG we are going to shut them down, screw em".
They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is, their service went from bad to horrible.
EQ has daily server crashes, just check out the boards, they crashed 2 times today again, I just went to look.
But they continue to ask the same amount of 15$ / month.
It's called......*drums*
-Ripping people off-
lol.
Its not called *Drums* ripping people off, because you can QUIT PAYING FOR IT.
SOE is not forcing anyone to play EQ, if they were then that would be a problem. If people are still playing the game and willing to continue playing with little support for the game that is not SOEs fault. I dont think SOE has tried to keep secret that EQ is not their priority game.
The game is staying alive with a small playerbase. While the game is still making money im sure it is not making alot of money. This being the case of course service will drop, updates will slow, etc etc. If you think that SOE should keep the same amount of staff on the game now as it has when it had 500K subscribers then i dont recomment you ever have your own business, you will lose money very fast.
Its not called *Drums* ripping people off, because you can QUIT PAYING FOR IT.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.
If you are so addicted to a game that you will allow the company to screw you at every turn yet still you will play this is not the companies fault. Perhaps you should seek help but the company is fine.
I played EQ for almost 5 years and then i did something novel, i quit playing EQ. I cant say i was addicted to it but i played alot. I suppose we can argue all day about whos fault it is that someone has an addiction, the products or the persons.
I suppose it is naive for me to say "Let people play EQ in whatever state it is in if they want to."
I guess i should go around spewing a bunch of crap and trying to get people to quit playing games just because i dont like them. But then there are plenty of people who do that already.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this: -deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted -lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs -keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price -pretend everything is fine Don't be so naive.
They get people "addicted" by providing abysmal service? That hardly seems like a practical way to facilitate the customers addiction. Kinda goes against all conventional thinking of "the art of customer service" but hey, I guess its working out for them. Are there any stats on MMO addiction yet? Where are we at with that?
Other then that, an individual could always exercise some common sense and not pay for whatever they are selling and play something else, its not like anyone is forcing them to pay. There is a huge variety of clone MMO's out there so choice isn't really an issue.
I'm an idiot though, what do I know, we are all victims of the evil SOE. Except maybe myself, see I choose not to give them my money, so its all good, let them do what they want, they rape their player base as it is anyway.
Its not called *Drums* ripping people off, because you can QUIT PAYING FOR IT.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.
They are at fault, the same way sigaret companies where at fault when they had to confess they made sigarets as addictive as they could.
It's time MMO companies get an investigation like that too, and if they make games addictive on purpose, it should be labeled as such.
You're being very naive here, getting people hooked on something, adding Item shops later after release, and lowering costs to where service is abysmal, knowing that customers will keep paying, is a practice that's wrong.
I'm sorta for this and against it, but definitely not from SOE. Smedley looks like such a scumbag in the opening post, lulz
it's appealing to not have to pay monthly fees, but then again during a darker time in my life when I played maplestory, I wished that it did have a monthly fee. I'd rather have the benefits of less idiots and cash shop items being available in the game at the cost of a monthly fee than have to pay for goofy clothes and be swarmed by tards in every direction for free
Its not called *Drums* ripping people off, because you can QUIT PAYING FOR IT.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.
They are at fault, the same way sigaret companies where at fault when they had to confess they made sigarets as addictive as they could.
It's time MMO companies get an investigation like that too, and if they make games addictive on purpose, it should be labeled as such.
You're being very naive here, getting people hooked on something, adding Item shops later after release, and lowering costs to where service is abysmal, knowing that customers will keep paying, is a practice that's wrong.
You're purpously being very naive.
I am being naive. You are comparing sitting a playing a computer game to cigarettes or even alcohol, these things actually put something into your body that your body over time will crave. Yes, you are right. It is also Judas Priests fault that a kid killed himself while listening to Judas Priest. Why can people not except that which is caused by there own actions.
Perhaps i am being naive again but i tend to think i am being more logical, but here it goes. SOE made a game called Everquest. Lots of people liked it alot. For a long time it was king of the mountain. Now however many people have moved on and while there is still a loyal fan base it is no where near where it was. Because of this money going into the game gets lessened, because of this personnel working on the game gets lessened. People still like playing the game so they keep the game going but in a lesser status.
But yes, i am Naive and you are correct. And since you are correct and SOE made EQ so that people would play it they should shut it down. Now lets shut down every other game that has been or will be created, after all they are only being created by Devs who really want people to play the game. Now lets shut down all TV, it is only being produced by people who really want other people to watch there shows (Maybe not PBS). Now lets stop production on all movies and never make a movie again, same reason.
Now lets stop all coffee, sodas, cigarettes, alcohol and anything else that someone may become addicted to because they choose to use it.
Welcome to the new world, hope you like it. By the way, turn that computer off, the internet is canceled.
Oh, and also Candygirl, since you are so correct why dont you go onto every game page on this site and make the same post about every game.
Because as you know every other game on this site (at least the P2P ones) were created by devs who wanted you to become addicted you their game.
And while Blizzard does not have an item store in WoW i can go onto Playerauctions right now and buy a LVL 70 Priest in full Tier 4 and 5 gear with all keys for a couple hundred dollars. Blizzard has not tried to keep this from happening, they are evil.
Someone link the article about the Asian game that got people so hooked they were paying to progress. It was an interview with a former player. It's very fitting to this thread.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
Someone link the article about the Asian game that got people so hooked they were paying to progress. It was an interview with a former player. It's very fitting to this thread.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
Yes, let's use that mentality. Only a few are addicted to these item shops so we can just disregard them.
Well let's just keep them out of the statistics too then, they don't really count then do they? Let's just pretend it doesn't happen at all.
Why stop there, what happens in Asia is not our problem, because what happens in Asia can't happen here right. Why even look at a perfect example of another country that uses that exact system? Why not disregard it.
/sarcasm
If it doesn't hurt me or us, we don't care, right?
Edit: Oh, it's you, I swore not to get into a disscussion again with you, I said it's no use before lol. This will be my final post on it, take it as you wish.
Someone link the article about the Asian game that got people so hooked they were paying to progress. It was an interview with a former player. It's very fitting to this thread.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
Yes, let's use that mentality. Only a few are addicted to these item shops so we can just disregard them.
Well let's just keep them out of the statistics too then, they don't really count then do they? Let's just pretend it doesn't happen at all.
Why stop there, what happens in Asia is not our problem, because what happens in Asia can't happen here right. Why even look at a perfect example of another country that uses that exact system? Why not disregard it.
/sarcasm
If it doesn't hurt me or us, we don't care, right?
Edit: Oh, it's you, I swore not to get into a disscussion again with you, I said it's no use before lol. This will be my final post on it, take it as you wish.
Oh let's dismiss an entire model because one mmorpg allows it's users to advance through real life payment, now that would be a good idea /sarcasm.
about people being addicted to item shops, why should I care about those few? Should we disregard the entire model because a few idiots are unable to control themself? why stop there, we might as well ban the entire mmo genre since there are people addicted to mmo's.
I couldn't help but think this sounded an awful lot like Smedley is basically giving up on the subscription based market and conceding defeat to Blizzard. I mean isn't he pretty much saying ok, they won the subscription fee market, but there are other markets out there and we plan to beat them to the punch there? Am I reading too much into this? Is my Fanboi showing?
SOE is getting desperate, they are the bottom feeders of the industry right now for a company like this they essentialy see no problem copying crappy asian grindfest MMORPG's that have a pay to shop mall on demand.
Smedley is delusional if he thinks these types of games will out perform WOrld of Warcraft in terms of sales, those item shop games are Free they make money from selling items these types of games have horrible graphics, no features, no innovation, people play em but they are not as successfull in the $$$ department as the subscription based MMORPGs.
They are bare-bones of the MMORPG gaming industry, remember in order to make a good MMO you need a ton of $$$, free-to-play item shop games are cheap to make and they do make money but the amount never equals to a game that has 200,000 or 300,000 who pay a monthly subscription.
The companies that make these kind of MMOS do so because they frankly don't have the type of $$$ to make a real MMORPG.
Also you gotta realize why Smedly is taking SOE in this direction, they have ZERO credibility with the people who play MMORPG's. They screwed people over so bad that they basically managed to stir up the entire MMORPG gaming base against them.
I am not worried, and most people should not be; this is John Smedley were talking about what this idiot will do is make a Pay-to-shop MMO that cost 1-3 mil to make and sell it for $50 at the store without informing the buyer. So yeah this will be another SCAM, they will make money off the box sales but for the most part "THE AGENCY" will be a total failure, and it will damage their reputation so much so that they will never be able to recover from it.
SOE wants to make money and this is the way they're going to do, because they know that they no longer have a foothold in the MMORPG market. They got smashed into pieces by Blizzard and they know they can't compete in the subscription base MMORPG business anymore, so they are gracefully bowing out of the industry and following the rest of the bottom feeders who are know competing over scraps.
I am being naive. You are comparing sitting a playing a computer game to cigarettes or even alcohol, these things actually put something into your body that your body over time will crave. Yes, you are right. It is also Judas Priests fault that a kid killed himself while listening to Judas Priest. Why can people not except that which is caused by there own actions.
Perhaps i am being naive again but i tend to think i am being more logical, but here it goes. SOE made a game called Everquest. Lots of people liked it alot. For a long time it was king of the mountain. Now however many people have moved on and while there is still a loyal fan base it is no where near where it was. Because of this money going into the game gets lessened, because of this personnel working on the game gets lessened. People still like playing the game so they keep the game going but in a lesser status. But yes, i am Naive and you are correct. And since you are correct and SOE made EQ so that people would play it they should shut it down. Now lets shut down every other game that has been or will be created, after all they are only being created by Devs who really want people to play the game. Now lets shut down all TV, it is only being produced by people who really want other people to watch there shows (Maybe not PBS). Now lets stop production on all movies and never make a movie again, same reason. Now lets stop all coffee, sodas, cigarettes, alcohol and anything else that someone may become addicted to because they choose to use it. Welcome to the new world, hope you like it. By the way, turn that computer off, the internet is canceled.
I'm sorry, but you ARE being naive.
There is a medical condition called "addiction to gambling" and there is quite a large number of people with extremely serious problems stemming from it.
Open your eyes - there are private clinics in the US dealing with WoW addiction already... I'm sure that the medical community is currently trying to find a correct term for MMORPG addiction. There are deaths in China reported from incessant playing of Lineage 2 which is considered especially addiction-forming because it combines an element of peer pressure (guild-based, harsh death penalties) with an already powerful psychological MMORPG formula.
Psychological addictions are actually much harder to overcome than purely physiological ones. Curing a Heroin addiction, for example, has a much higher rate of success if the addict is removed from psychological factors which he associates with his addiction.
MMORPGs are fun, yes, just like fast driving is. The fun ends when you have a maniac who's addicted to his speed-trips, collects his speeding-tickets by the dozen and does 120 mph downtown at 2am for kicks killing one of your best friends so thoroughly they had to scrape him off from 100ft of pavement.... Be smart, have fun but know what you're dealing with.
I dont have a problem with item shops as long as it doesnt turn out like some of the asian grinders- as in having to spend real money every time you play to actually get anywhere.
If its just a case of selling aesthetic items,or in game stuff that isnt gamebreakingly overpowered,then im all for it.
Being able to buy an xp scroll is totally different from having to buy potions and weapons to have a hope of even trying to beat a normal mob.
I'm sorry, but you ARE being naive. There is a medical condition called "addiction to gambling" and there is quite a large number of people with extremely serious problems stemming from it. Open your eyes - there are private clinics in the US dealing with WoW addiction already... I'm sure that the medical community is currently trying to find a correct term for MMORPG addiction. There are deaths in China reported from incessant playing of Lineage 2 which is considered especially addiction-forming because it combines an element of peer pressure (guild-based, harsh death penalties) with an already powerful psychological MMORPG formula. Psychological addictions are actually much harder to overcome than purely physiological ones. Curing a Heroin addiction, for example, has a much higher rate of success if the addict is removed from psychological factors which he associates with his addiction. MMORPGs are fun, yes, just like fast driving is. The fun ends when you have a maniac who's addicted to his speed-trips, collects his speeding-tickets by the dozen and does 120 mph downtown at 2am for kicks killing one of your best friends so thoroughly they had to scrape him off from 100ft of pavement.... Be smart, have fun but know what you're dealing with.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I for a while now have beleived that the micro market system is the future of mmo's because of the amount of online games that will be appearing over the next few years on pc/xbox/ps3 , guildwars did the free platform very well with just buying the client and purchasing extra items like skills and mission packs, thats also sometrhing that microsoft have been doing from day one with xbox live and it was a successful venture.
Also i've always seen a huge problem with console mmo's being very expensive, how many people here would even think of shelling out for a 360 mmo at 70 dollars a pop, paying the live subscription AND paying the game subscription?
I know i wouldnt but if there was no subscription to the game to pay and it was just extra content you could purchase if you wish i would consider buying the game.
I'm sorry, but you ARE being naive. There is a medical condition called "addiction to gambling" and there is quite a large number of people with extremely serious problems stemming from it. Open your eyes - there are private clinics in the US dealing with WoW addiction already... I'm sure that the medical community is currently trying to find a correct term for MMORPG addiction. There are deaths in China reported from incessant playing of Lineage 2 which is considered especially addiction-forming because it combines an element of peer pressure (guild-based, harsh death penalties) with an already powerful psychological MMORPG formula. Psychological addictions are actually much harder to overcome than purely physiological ones. Curing a Heroin addiction, for example, has a much higher rate of success if the addict is removed from psychological factors which he associates with his addiction. MMORPGs are fun, yes, just like fast driving is. The fun ends when you have a maniac who's addicted to his speed-trips, collects his speeding-tickets by the dozen and does 120 mph downtown at 2am for kicks killing one of your best friends so thoroughly they had to scrape him off from 100ft of pavement.... Be smart, have fun but know what you're dealing with.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I agree that you shouldn't ban everything and anything that is addictive because, hey, whaddayaknow - sex is addiction forming too and that's probably the only thing human race cannot go without...
What I'm saying is that some activites are potentially more habit-forming and some are less so. Some people have more of an "addictive personality" than others and according to latest research this might even be genetically predetermined, so...
Be aware of addictive potential of MMOs just like you should be aware of this addictive potential in any other activity (speed driving is a case in point). I consider "oh no, MMOs are not addictive on their own, it's just a handful of idiots who can't stop" a dangerous attitude because each and every gambling addict said pretty much the same thing before he realized that he's hooked. Acknowledging the danger is the first step in avoiding it.
To return to the topic... IMO, companies that deliberately play on the addiction card at the expense of fun and quality are evil in the purest sense of the word. As evil as your schoolyard drug-dealer. That's the primary reason why I despise and detest Blizzard at the moment. They decided to go the grind-addiction route instead of improving the "fun-factor" of WoW. Yes, from a business PoV this makes sense but man, cigarette companies also made perfectly justified business move with supressing the data on nicotine addiction and injecting additional habit-forming substances into their tobacco...
Item-shop MMOs are just another step into the "more habit - less fun" direction. I really hope this whole notion bombs on Smed and the rest of the creeps like him.
I'm sorry, but you ARE being naive. There is a medical condition called "addiction to gambling" and there is quite a large number of people with extremely serious problems stemming from it. Open your eyes - there are private clinics in the US dealing with WoW addiction already... I'm sure that the medical community is currently trying to find a correct term for MMORPG addiction. There are deaths in China reported from incessant playing of Lineage 2 which is considered especially addiction-forming because it combines an element of peer pressure (guild-based, harsh death penalties) with an already powerful psychological MMORPG formula. Psychological addictions are actually much harder to overcome than purely physiological ones. Curing a Heroin addiction, for example, has a much higher rate of success if the addict is removed from psychological factors which he associates with his addiction. MMORPGs are fun, yes, just like fast driving is. The fun ends when you have a maniac who's addicted to his speed-trips, collects his speeding-tickets by the dozen and does 120 mph downtown at 2am for kicks killing one of your best friends so thoroughly they had to scrape him off from 100ft of pavement.... Be smart, have fun but know what you're dealing with.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I agree that you shouldn't ban everything and anything that is addictive because, hey, whaddayaknow - sex is addiction forming too and that's probably the only thing human race cannot go without...
What I'm saying is that some activites are potentially more habit-forming and some are less so. Some people have more of an "addictive personality" than others and according to latest research this might even be genetically predetermined, so...
Be aware of addictive potential of MMOs just like you should be aware of this addictive potential in any other activity (speed driving is a case in point). I consider "oh no, MMOs are not addictive on their own, it's just a handful of idiots who can't stop" a dangerous attitude because each and every gambling addict said pretty much the same thing before he realized that he's hooked. Acknowledging the danger is the first step in avoiding it.
To return to the topic... IMO, companies that deliberately play on the addiction card at the expense of fun and quality are evil in the purest sense of the word. As evil as your schoolyard drug-dealer. That's the primary reason why I despise and detest Blizzard at the moment. They decided to go the grind-addiction route instead of improving the "fun-factor" of WoW. Yes, from a business PoV this makes sense but man, cigarette companies also made perfectly justified business move with supressing the data on nicotine addiction and injecting additional habit-forming substances into their tobacco...
Item-shop MMOs are just another step into the "more habit - less fun" direction. I really hope this whole notion bombs on Smed and the rest of the creeps like him.
Free to Play = Poor Quality, Poor Community and Poor Customer Service .... " Sigh "
Currently yes thats because most big corporations cant see a substantial profit being made from them but with the next gen cross platform mmo that could change.
Comments
They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that. So they are dropping some support, so they are not adding content as fast, So What. I doubt EQ and SWG are making them alot of money. SOE should be applauded for keeping these games alive when they could just kill them and move on. There are plenty of people still upset that AC2 just shut down without alot of warning, would it be better if SOE did the same thing.
And everyone is getting so upset about SOE selling in game items. True this is about greed but that is all that it is about, there is nothing more to get upset about. In game items have been sold since EQ started, Characters have been sold since EQ started, this happens in every game. I can go onto Playerauctions and buy a maxed out WoW account right now if i want to. So it is pure evil that the guys running the game say "Hey, people are selling stuff from our game and getting money for it, why dont we just sell stuff from our game so others cant make money off it".
It certainly isnt like if SOE didnt sell items then items would not be sold. I guess it is just silly and wrong to buy a bad ass sword drop from some dude on Playerauctions but it is just pure evil to buy it directly from SOE.
Do i approve of the idea, no not really, but i also dont really care all that much. So some guy may buy some stuff that lets him level faster then me, who cares, it wont really affect my game at all. Now for a big time PVP game this would be more of issue but most SOE games dont do much PVP.
I am quite sure that if Smed did an interview and in that interview he said that Corn Flakes were the best cerial EVER people would come on here to bitch about what he said.
SOE is not the first company to have item stores, nor will they be the last company to have them. Like it or not.
What is so wrong with the above statement. Would you be more happy if he said , "Even though we have people who enjoy playing EQ and SWG we are going to shut them down, screw em".They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is, their service went from bad to horrible.
EQ has daily server crashes, just check out the boards, they crashed 2 times today again, I just went to look.
But they continue to ask the same amount of 15$ / month.
It's called......*drums*
-Ripping people off-
lol.
And people often don't 'like to play', let's be honest and not naive, most are addicted to these games, they'd pay 30$ / month if SOE said so. It's exploitation.
Doesn't surprise me Smedley would come up with such a thing, its just like RF-Online / Archlord and what not that codemasters is running, free to play but with a ingame cash shop thing were you can buy items that enhances your game experience.
List of SOE lies
They are still making money, they still have players who like to play, so they will keep the game up. There is nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is, their service went from bad to horrible.EQ has daily server crashes, just check out the boards, they crashed 2 times today again, I just went to look.
But they continue to ask the same amount of 15$ / month.
It's called......*drums*
-Ripping people off-
lol.
Its not called *Drums* ripping people off, because you can QUIT PAYING FOR IT.SOE is not forcing anyone to play EQ, if they were then that would be a problem. If people are still playing the game and willing to continue playing with little support for the game that is not SOEs fault. I dont think SOE has tried to keep secret that EQ is not their priority game.
The game is staying alive with a small playerbase. While the game is still making money im sure it is not making alot of money. This being the case of course service will drop, updates will slow, etc etc. If you think that SOE should keep the same amount of staff on the game now as it has when it had 500K subscribers then i dont recomment you ever have your own business, you will lose money very fast.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.If you are so addicted to a game that you will allow the company to screw you at every turn yet still you will play this is not the companies fault. Perhaps you should seek help but the company is fine.
I played EQ for almost 5 years and then i did something novel, i quit playing EQ. I cant say i was addicted to it but i played alot. I suppose we can argue all day about whos fault it is that someone has an addiction, the products or the persons.
I suppose it is naive for me to say "Let people play EQ in whatever state it is in if they want to."
I guess i should go around spewing a bunch of crap and trying to get people to quit playing games just because i dont like them. But then there are plenty of people who do that already.
Other then that, an individual could always exercise some common sense and not pay for whatever they are selling and play something else, its not like anyone is forcing them to pay. There is a huge variety of clone MMO's out there so choice isn't really an issue.
I'm an idiot though, what do I know, we are all victims of the evil SOE. Except maybe myself, see I choose not to give them my money, so its all good, let them do what they want, they rape their player base as it is anyway.
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.They are at fault, the same way sigaret companies where at fault when they had to confess they made sigarets as addictive as they could.
It's time MMO companies get an investigation like that too, and if they make games addictive on purpose, it should be labeled as such.
You're being very naive here, getting people hooked on something, adding Item shops later after release, and lowering costs to where service is abysmal, knowing that customers will keep paying, is a practice that's wrong.
You're purpously being very naive.
Someone link the article about the Asian game that got people so hooked they were paying to progress. It was an interview with a former player.
It's very fitting to this thread.
I'm sorta for this and against it, but definitely not from SOE. Smedley looks like such a scumbag in the opening post, lulz
it's appealing to not have to pay monthly fees, but then again during a darker time in my life when I played maplestory, I wished that it did have a monthly fee. I'd rather have the benefits of less idiots and cash shop items being available in the game at the cost of a monthly fee than have to pay for goofy clothes and be swarmed by tards in every direction for free
No, MMO companies just do everything in their power to get people addicted to their game.
SOE does this:
-deliver abysmal service, enough to get people hooked and addicted
-lower costs of the game to run it, transfer QA and GM's to india and lower dev costs
-keep charging , add ITEM MALLS once people are addicted, and often increase sub price
-pretend everything is fine
Don't be so naive.
This is a joke right. SOE is at fault because it made a game that people like to play too much. Wow, you will stretch as far as you can to blame SOE for something.They are at fault, the same way sigaret companies where at fault when they had to confess they made sigarets as addictive as they could.
It's time MMO companies get an investigation like that too, and if they make games addictive on purpose, it should be labeled as such.
You're being very naive here, getting people hooked on something, adding Item shops later after release, and lowering costs to where service is abysmal, knowing that customers will keep paying, is a practice that's wrong.
You're purpously being very naive.
I am being naive. You are comparing sitting a playing a computer game to cigarettes or even alcohol, these things actually put something into your body that your body over time will crave. Yes, you are right. It is also Judas Priests fault that a kid killed himself while listening to Judas Priest. Why can people not except that which is caused by there own actions.Perhaps i am being naive again but i tend to think i am being more logical, but here it goes. SOE made a game called Everquest. Lots of people liked it alot. For a long time it was king of the mountain. Now however many people have moved on and while there is still a loyal fan base it is no where near where it was. Because of this money going into the game gets lessened, because of this personnel working on the game gets lessened. People still like playing the game so they keep the game going but in a lesser status.
But yes, i am Naive and you are correct. And since you are correct and SOE made EQ so that people would play it they should shut it down. Now lets shut down every other game that has been or will be created, after all they are only being created by Devs who really want people to play the game. Now lets shut down all TV, it is only being produced by people who really want other people to watch there shows (Maybe not PBS). Now lets stop production on all movies and never make a movie again, same reason.
Now lets stop all coffee, sodas, cigarettes, alcohol and anything else that someone may become addicted to because they choose to use it.
Welcome to the new world, hope you like it. By the way, turn that computer off, the internet is canceled.
Oh, and also Candygirl, since you are so correct why dont you go onto every game page on this site and make the same post about every game.
Because as you know every other game on this site (at least the P2P ones) were created by devs who wanted you to become addicted you their game.
And while Blizzard does not have an item store in WoW i can go onto Playerauctions right now and buy a LVL 70 Priest in full Tier 4 and 5 gear with all keys for a couple hundred dollars. Blizzard has not tried to keep this from happening, they are evil.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
Yes, let's use that mentality. Only a few are addicted to these item shops so we can just disregard them.
Well let's just keep them out of the statistics too then, they don't really count then do they? Let's just pretend it doesn't happen at all.
Why stop there, what happens in Asia is not our problem, because what happens in Asia can't happen here right. Why even look at a perfect example of another country that uses that exact system? Why not disregard it.
/sarcasm
If it doesn't hurt me or us, we don't care, right?
Edit: Oh, it's you, I swore not to get into a disscussion again with you, I said it's no use before lol. This will be my final post on it, take it as you wish.
That was me, and no, it's not fitting to this thread because there are only a few mmorpg's who take it as far as that game. There is currently not a single item shop mmo released in the west that is that extreme.
Yes, let's use that mentality. Only a few are addicted to these item shops so we can just disregard them.
Well let's just keep them out of the statistics too then, they don't really count then do they? Let's just pretend it doesn't happen at all.
Why stop there, what happens in Asia is not our problem, because what happens in Asia can't happen here right. Why even look at a perfect example of another country that uses that exact system? Why not disregard it.
/sarcasm
If it doesn't hurt me or us, we don't care, right?
Edit: Oh, it's you, I swore not to get into a disscussion again with you, I said it's no use before lol. This will be my final post on it, take it as you wish.
Oh let's dismiss an entire model because one mmorpg allows it's users to advance through real life payment, now that would be a good idea /sarcasm.about people being addicted to item shops, why should I care about those few? Should we disregard the entire model because a few idiots are unable to control themself? why stop there, we might as well ban the entire mmo genre since there are people addicted to mmo's.
I couldn't help but think this sounded an awful lot like Smedley is basically giving up on the subscription based market and conceding defeat to Blizzard. I mean isn't he pretty much saying ok, they won the subscription fee market, but there are other markets out there and we plan to beat them to the punch there? Am I reading too much into this? Is my Fanboi showing?
SOE is getting desperate, they are the bottom feeders of the industry right now for a company like this they essentialy see no problem copying crappy asian grindfest MMORPG's that have a pay to shop mall on demand.
Smedley is delusional if he thinks these types of games will out perform WOrld of Warcraft in terms of sales, those item shop games are Free they make money from selling items these types of games have horrible graphics, no features, no innovation, people play em but they are not as successfull in the $$$ department as the subscription based MMORPGs.
They are bare-bones of the MMORPG gaming industry, remember in order to make a good MMO you need a ton of $$$, free-to-play item shop games are cheap to make and they do make money but the amount never equals to a game that has 200,000 or 300,000 who pay a monthly subscription.
The companies that make these kind of MMOS do so because they frankly don't have the type of $$$ to make a real MMORPG.
Also you gotta realize why Smedly is taking SOE in this direction, they have ZERO credibility with the people who play MMORPG's. They screwed people over so bad that they basically managed to stir up the entire MMORPG gaming base against them.
I am not worried, and most people should not be; this is John Smedley were talking about what this idiot will do is make a Pay-to-shop MMO that cost 1-3 mil to make and sell it for $50 at the store without informing the buyer. So yeah this will be another SCAM, they will make money off the box sales but for the most part "THE AGENCY" will be a total failure, and it will damage their reputation so much so that they will never be able to recover from it.
SOE wants to make money and this is the way they're going to do, because they know that they no longer have a foothold in the MMORPG market. They got smashed into pieces by Blizzard and they know they can't compete in the subscription base MMORPG business anymore, so they are gracefully bowing out of the industry and following the rest of the bottom feeders who are know competing over scraps.
I say good riddance, were better for it.
I'm sorry, but you ARE being naive.
There is a medical condition called "addiction to gambling" and there is quite a large number of people with extremely serious problems stemming from it.
Open your eyes - there are private clinics in the US dealing with WoW addiction already... I'm sure that the medical community is currently trying to find a correct term for MMORPG addiction. There are deaths in China reported from incessant playing of Lineage 2 which is considered especially addiction-forming because it combines an element of peer pressure (guild-based, harsh death penalties) with an already powerful psychological MMORPG formula.
Psychological addictions are actually much harder to overcome than purely physiological ones. Curing a Heroin addiction, for example, has a much higher rate of success if the addict is removed from psychological factors which he associates with his addiction.
MMORPGs are fun, yes, just like fast driving is. The fun ends when you have a maniac who's addicted to his speed-trips, collects his speeding-tickets by the dozen and does 120 mph downtown at 2am for kicks killing one of your best friends so thoroughly they had to scrape him off from 100ft of pavement.... Be smart, have fun but know what you're dealing with.
Hear we go again.
Actually, before you start touting all these clinics in the US and the "recognized problem of gaming addiction", you should realize two things:
1. there aren't clinics all over the US for this.
2. The AMA has determined there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that video game overuse qualifies as addiction.
I dont have a problem with item shops as long as it doesnt turn out like some of the asian grinders- as in having to spend real money every time you play to actually get anywhere.
If its just a case of selling aesthetic items,or in game stuff that isnt gamebreakingly overpowered,then im all for it.
Being able to buy an xp scroll is totally different from having to buy potions and weapons to have a hope of even trying to beat a normal mob.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I for a while now have beleived that the micro market system is the future of mmo's because of the amount of online games that will be appearing over the next few years on pc/xbox/ps3 , guildwars did the free platform very well with just buying the client and purchasing extra items like skills and mission packs, thats also sometrhing that microsoft have been doing from day one with xbox live and it was a successful venture.
Also i've always seen a huge problem with console mmo's being very expensive, how many people here would even think of shelling out for a 360 mmo at 70 dollars a pop, paying the live subscription AND paying the game subscription?
I know i wouldnt but if there was no subscription to the game to pay and it was just extra content you could purchase if you wish i would consider buying the game.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I agree that you shouldn't ban everything and anything that is addictive because, hey, whaddayaknow - sex is addiction forming too and that's probably the only thing human race cannot go without...
What I'm saying is that some activites are potentially more habit-forming and some are less so. Some people have more of an "addictive personality" than others and according to latest research this might even be genetically predetermined, so...
Be aware of addictive potential of MMOs just like you should be aware of this addictive potential in any other activity (speed driving is a case in point). I consider "oh no, MMOs are not addictive on their own, it's just a handful of idiots who can't stop" a dangerous attitude because each and every gambling addict said pretty much the same thing before he realized that he's hooked. Acknowledging the danger is the first step in avoiding it.
To return to the topic... IMO, companies that deliberately play on the addiction card at the expense of fun and quality are evil in the purest sense of the word. As evil as your schoolyard drug-dealer. That's the primary reason why I despise and detest Blizzard at the moment. They decided to go the grind-addiction route instead of improving the "fun-factor" of WoW. Yes, from a business PoV this makes sense but man, cigarette companies also made perfectly justified business move with supressing the data on nicotine addiction and injecting additional habit-forming substances into their tobacco...
Item-shop MMOs are just another step into the "more habit - less fun" direction. I really hope this whole notion bombs on Smed and the rest of the creeps like him.
Eh addiction is addiction regardless of whether it's driving a car fast, playing a video game, drinking alcohol, or cutting yourself with razors. It all boils down to 2 things, one -- a mental problem and two never learning moderation.
Its stupid to say "Hey MMOs are addicting!" Anything in the world can be addicting if someone doesn't know how to control themselves. Everyone eats food, but some people take that completely too far. Many addictions aren't created by the objects themselves, it's by the person doing them. So when you say WoW addiction what you mean is that the person that can't pull themselves away from the computer has a severe disorder, and the game itself is not at fault, but the person playing it is.
I agree that you shouldn't ban everything and anything that is addictive because, hey, whaddayaknow - sex is addiction forming too and that's probably the only thing human race cannot go without...
What I'm saying is that some activites are potentially more habit-forming and some are less so. Some people have more of an "addictive personality" than others and according to latest research this might even be genetically predetermined, so...
Be aware of addictive potential of MMOs just like you should be aware of this addictive potential in any other activity (speed driving is a case in point). I consider "oh no, MMOs are not addictive on their own, it's just a handful of idiots who can't stop" a dangerous attitude because each and every gambling addict said pretty much the same thing before he realized that he's hooked. Acknowledging the danger is the first step in avoiding it.
To return to the topic... IMO, companies that deliberately play on the addiction card at the expense of fun and quality are evil in the purest sense of the word. As evil as your schoolyard drug-dealer. That's the primary reason why I despise and detest Blizzard at the moment. They decided to go the grind-addiction route instead of improving the "fun-factor" of WoW. Yes, from a business PoV this makes sense but man, cigarette companies also made perfectly justified business move with supressing the data on nicotine addiction and injecting additional habit-forming substances into their tobacco...
Item-shop MMOs are just another step into the "more habit - less fun" direction. I really hope this whole notion bombs on Smed and the rest of the creeps like him.
I can respect that
Free to Play = Poor Quality, Poor Community and Poor Customer Service .... " Sigh "
Currently yes thats because most big corporations cant see a substantial profit being made from them but with the next gen cross platform mmo that could change.