FIrst of all, a little something about me. There isnt a single mmorpg out there that can keep my interest for more than a month (tops) Even that, there are many people that keep on asking for features like FULL LOOT, FREE PVP (No save zones), SAND BOX, no LVLS, no CLASSES, instead SKILLS that you train according to your needs -whatever they are, limitted INSTANCED ACTION, no TELEPORTING everywhere in the map with a number of clicks, no ITEM- BASED game and pvp -meaning that all you left doing in the game is running around raiding looking for that uber sword cause theres nothing else to do. Hell there are just people asking for just a CHANGE really.. Are game companies so fucking retarded that they dont listen to those people? Cause if i was in to marketing and shit i'd say theres a market here already warm and ready for a product that will be DIFFERENT. Even more people whine and bitch on how games totally suck nowdays, how they lack in keeping their interest after the lvl cap. After grinding thousands of quests, killing millions of mobs blah blah blah Wow have supposedly 10m of costumers, yet its considered mcdonalds by many people including the writer. Why is it so terrible for a game nowadays to push for innovations ? To try different things. To revolutionize the genre. Why this awfull stagnancy ? How mediocre things are.. Game companies need to fucking get a grip and start listening to their costumers instead of serving them shit all the time. Its all about BALANCE and CHANGE. Rant over.. What do you guys feel about it ?
You all keep forgetting that a very small portion of all those millions of players today mmo's scene come to forums like this.
So all what you read here on forums is just opinions of a very small group, so its not opinion of millions out there.
Thats why developers copying games like wow or dont dare to take risks they just look at sales, and hardcore open pvp dont bring in the bucks.
Our last hope is Darkfall:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Every game needs some innovation. Just because WoW is popular, doesn't mean that any WoW-clone is going to be successful. After all, why leave WoW simply for more of the same? Besides, Blizzard is taking care to expand on WoW and deliver more of the same anyhow.
WoW-clones will only attract the "grass is greener" people, and they'll probably move on again to something else.
There has to be some business sense in innovating right now. Delivering something different. How many WoW-clones can the market sustain? How many will even be successful? Personally, I don't see the rational in trying to steal WoW's customer base with more of the same, when there are other markets with no real game to call their own. And potetially a lot of these could be playing WoW while they wait for something else.
FIrst of all, a little something about me. There isnt a single mmorpg out there that can keep my interest for more than a month (tops) Even that, there are many people that keep on asking for features like FULL LOOT, FREE PVP (No save zones), SAND BOX, no LVLS, no CLASSES, instead SKILLS that you train according to your needs -whatever they are, limitted INSTANCED ACTION, no TELEPORTING everywhere in the map with a number of clicks, no ITEM- BASED game and pvp -meaning that all you left doing in the game is running around raiding looking for that uber sword cause theres nothing else to do. Hell there are just people asking for just a CHANGE really.. Are game companies so fucking retarded that they dont listen to those people? Cause if i was in to marketing and shit i'd say theres a market here already warm and ready for a product that will be DIFFERENT. Even more people whine and bitch on how games totally suck nowdays, how they lack in keeping their interest after the lvl cap. After grinding thousands of quests, killing millions of mobs blah blah blah Wow have supposedly 10m of costumers, yet its considered mcdonalds by many people including the writer. Why is it so terrible for a game nowadays to push for innovations ? To try different things. To revolutionize the genre. Why this awfull stagnancy ? How mediocre things are.. Game companies need to fucking get a grip and start listening to their costumers instead of serving them shit all the time. Its all about BALANCE and CHANGE. Rant over.. What do you guys feel about it ?
Nice rant, but the game companies and developers are paying attention to the players. Most of the players are ok with the present form of MMORPG format, and that these players are the majority. The minority are the ones who ask for changes, innovations, basically what you've mentioned above. But these people are the minority of the gamer population.
So who will the game companies focus on first? Of course they will focus on the majority of the players (more players = more $$$). But there are some game companies slowing expanding their development into the more innovative design and taking risks, we just have to be patient about it (what we want would take even more time to develop than the time to develop the present form of MMO).
Anyone who says they want "change" is full of BS. Change is a weasel word.
Just look at the american the current political campaign. Obama says he is for "change" and people who support him say this as well. But if they wanted change they could elect Linden LaRouche or Ross Perot or some other whacko.
Same things has been done in the past on various other sides. Whether it was Republicans in the 1990's or the Whigs back in the 1800's. Or various parties in Britain or Europe.
They just say these generic things. That when you look at them and add in all the unsaid stuff mean something completely different. Its only 20% of the word that has any applicability. And the reason its so generic is that the voters don't have any real ideas and the candidates don't want to be tied down to any one statement they can be beat up with later. They just know what they don't like and then latch onto some meme they can spout that is close enough for them to always be close enough to weasel out of. Even voters who aren't campaigning do it, because they have to justify themselves to others.
They don't want any old change. It means they may not like the current situation. It doesn't mean they actually like change. And in fact some change will make them violently unhappy even though change is what they asked for. And no matter how much the sub-culture mouths off about change and rebellion etc no one is stupid enough to believe that all change is good even if they have essentially said just that.
Sorry to bring politics into it, but frankly politics is the closest thing to an MMO community.
Taking any of this stuff at any kind of face value is a recipe for disaster. Its not complete nonsense, but what people are saying is often not even close to what they fully mean. Even if they swear up and down that it is.
Anyone who says they want "change" is full of BS. Change is a weasel word.
Just look at the american the current political campaign. Obama says he is for "change" and people who support him say this as well. But if they wanted change they could elect Linden LaRouche or Ross Perot or some other whacko.
Same things has been done in the past on various other sides. Whether it was Republicans in the 1990's or the Whigs back in the 1800's. Or various parties in Britain or Europe.
They just say these generic things. That when you look at them and add in all the unsaid stuff mean something completely different. Its only 20% of the word that has any applicability. And the reason its so generic is that the voters don't have any real ideas and the candidates don't want to be tied down to any one statement they can be beat up with later. They just know what they don't like and then latch onto some meme they can spout that is close enough for them to always be close enough to weasel out of. Even voters who aren't campaigning do it, because they have to justify themselves to others.
They don't want any old change. It means they may not like the current situation. It doesn't mean they actually like change. And in fact some change will make them violently unhappy even though change is what they asked for. And no matter how much the sub-culture mouths off about change and rebellion etc no one is stupid enough to believe that all change is good even if they have essentially said just that.
Sorry to bring politics into it, but frankly politics is the closest thing to an MMO community. Taking any of this stuff at any kind of face value is a recipe for disaster. Its not complete nonsense, but what people are saying is often not even close to what they fully mean. Even if they swear up and down that it is.
It's not politic is closest thing to MMO community, it's that human nature reveals itself when there are conflicts.
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
Anyone who says they want "change" is full of BS. Change is a weasel word.
Just look at the american the current political campaign. Obama says he is for "change" and people who support him say this as well. But if they wanted change they could elect Linden LaRouche or Ross Perot or some other whacko.
Same things has been done in the past on various other sides. Whether it was Republicans in the 1990's or the Whigs back in the 1800's. Or various parties in Britain or Europe.
They just say these generic things. That when you look at them and add in all the unsaid stuff mean something completely different. Its only 20% of the word that has any applicability. And the reason its so generic is that the voters don't have any real ideas and the candidates don't want to be tied down to any one statement they can be beat up with later. They just know what they don't like and then latch onto some meme they can spout that is close enough for them to always be close enough to weasel out of. Even voters who aren't campaigning do it, because they have to justify themselves to others.
They don't want any old change. It means they may not like the current situation. It doesn't mean they actually like change. And in fact some change will make them violently unhappy even though change is what they asked for. And no matter how much the sub-culture mouths off about change and rebellion etc no one is stupid enough to believe that all change is good even if they have essentially said just that.
Sorry to bring politics into it, but frankly politics is the closest thing to an MMO community. Taking any of this stuff at any kind of face value is a recipe for disaster. Its not complete nonsense, but what people are saying is often not even close to what they fully mean. Even if they swear up and down that it is.
It's not politic is closest thing to MMO community, it's that human nature reveals itself when there are conflicts.
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
Hold on to past can be devestating, but believe in future can also be bleak and not so bright.
If people would realy learn from past future would be one big utopia:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Anyone who says they want "change" is full of BS. Change is a weasel word.
Just look at the american the current political campaign. Obama says he is for "change" and people who support him say this as well. But if they wanted change they could elect Linden LaRouche or Ross Perot or some other whacko.
Same things has been done in the past on various other sides. Whether it was Republicans in the 1990's or the Whigs back in the 1800's. Or various parties in Britain or Europe.
They just say these generic things. That when you look at them and add in all the unsaid stuff mean something completely different. Its only 20% of the word that has any applicability. And the reason its so generic is that the voters don't have any real ideas and the candidates don't want to be tied down to any one statement they can be beat up with later. They just know what they don't like and then latch onto some meme they can spout that is close enough for them to always be close enough to weasel out of. Even voters who aren't campaigning do it, because they have to justify themselves to others.
They don't want any old change. It means they may not like the current situation. It doesn't mean they actually like change. And in fact some change will make them violently unhappy even though change is what they asked for. And no matter how much the sub-culture mouths off about change and rebellion etc no one is stupid enough to believe that all change is good even if they have essentially said just that.
Sorry to bring politics into it, but frankly politics is the closest thing to an MMO community. Taking any of this stuff at any kind of face value is a recipe for disaster. Its not complete nonsense, but what people are saying is often not even close to what they fully mean. Even if they swear up and down that it is.
It's not politic is closest thing to MMO community, it's that human nature reveals itself when there are conflicts.
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
When one makes a statement like "I want change" without any kind of explanation as to what changes they think are are good and what changes they think are bad, then they are full of BS.
Because they are making a statement that they are trying to put forth as if it has meaning when it has none. Because without you telling them which is good and which is bad it could mean anything at all. The possibilities are endless.
Further a statement like that is the basis for a con-job. Because its a leading statement meant to seduce people into believe whatever is they want most in their own mind, without any regard to what is actually the case or what the stater themselves may or may not be trying to mean. It not just allows but encourages people to assume the a very vague sense of their best hopes and the person making the statement never even needs to know what those hopes are.
Are you full of BS for wanting change. No. But the statement itself is a con-job. Whether you are conning someone else or conning yourself. In the end it matters not. It is a con-job. Because in the end it means nothing other than "I don't really like this thing and would like something else".
But clearly the statement "We need change" has a very different effect than "We don't really like this thing and woudl like something different", even though they are really exactly the same thing as each other when you read between the lines.
Why is this important? Because many people do not want "change". They really want msot things to be exactly the same thing and only a few things different. Unsatisfied EQ1 players are not necessarily playing EvE even though they wanted "change" and EvE is quite different.
It is a completely obvious statement that really says almost nothing but is meant to elicit the con-job response of people making tons of fantasical assumptions.
If you are unhappy with something, anything even to a small degree then of course you want change. That is the very definition of the state you are in. If you didn't want any change at all you are by definition completely satisfied. How many people are completely satisfied? Almost no one. So almost everyone want change to some degree.
Promise them change and it is a natural part of the human brain for them to leap to conclusions. It is the very basis of the con-job and the art of illusion. It is the mind that makes illusions work not the eye.
The tell is that promising change means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Ask every person whoever promised change specific questions and you will get a million different answers.
It is a statement that is true under almost any valuation and therefore devoid of content. But it is also a statement that is highly suggestive and is therefore extremely useful for provoking the natural human response of jumping to conclusions/assumptions. It is the essence of the con-job.
Now it takes an actual nefarious purpose to turn something into a con-job, but the phenomenon itself operates all on its own. The con man simply makes use of it. And people are conning themselves every single day. Epsecially when they want something. The more they want the easier they are to con.
Originally posted by Pjay2k you're OUT OF TOUCH ! I'M out of tiiiime, but I'm out of my head, when you're not arround, you're out of touch, I'M out of timeeee, but Im out of my heaaaad when youre not aarrrround, OH ! OH OH OH, OH OH OH *sing*
Gotta love Hall and Oats.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I try to take the common sense approach when looking at these situations. The mmo market (ie the $) has been growing every year. That is a sign of well they are doing. Now, just because some particular person who plays mmos doesn't like where the marketplace is or can't stay with games is more a sign of a problem with that person. Also, OP, please address issues in your name and don't speak for other people or a lot of other people. It is not productive to position yourself as the voice for other people who may not know you are speaking for them and who may have other feelings on the matter. So say "I want SANDBOX" when you want to make those points.
You sounds like Sony.
Devs often stick to what they believe is the "right thing", and they are often wrong. Even WoW has many huge flaws; we may all disagree as to what these flaws are...but we will almost all agree to say, there is no such thing as perfection.
I feel pretty safe to tell you that the overwhelming majority doesn't want to be trapped in raiding, not in PvP, nor in tradeskills...these could be options...but they want to be FREE from these aspects which they may find annoying or tempting, but at any rate, hindering.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Other than "the game that must not be named", there's nothing currently on the horizon (that we know of) like what the OP is asking for. Even if a company decided to create a game today along these lines, we wouldn't see it until about 2012.
I've decided on trying to focus on the enjoyment each new titles coming out will provide, and not gnash my teeth over what they may lack.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Blizzard brings in what, $150 million a month? They could finance a great MMO every few weeks if they felt like it. The cash they get from WoW will put them into a position to dominate for a long time.
I wonder what they will make next, it should be interesting.
I think we are getting it wrong here. MMORPGS have been dumbed down precisely listiening to what people wanted. People were tired of grinding and travelling and corpse runs, so they screamed for teleports and fast levelling and maps and radars and no CR. And what not. They screamed "I want fun! I want fun! I want fun!" But now a quite big part of this people has realized that now MMROGPS are not oh so fun, and along with the ones that never wanted MMROGPS to be dumbed down are screaming for a more challenging gameplay again. Will they listen? I hope at least a couple of rather big or med companies will, but not any time soon.
Certainly at least 10M subscribers of WOW find the easy grinding, no corpse runs and teleports are more fun than unforgiving hardcore "challenge" gameplay.
I do not see any indication why MMORPG should not continue to go down the more casual approach. Not everyone wants a challenge. A lot of people are trying to relax and get AWAY from stress in their entertainment after work.
Well, I'm one of those 10M subscribers and I'm screaming for a more challenging MMORPG.
I said a big part and that's misleading. I meant not all of them, nor the majority, just a consierable amount of people. Of course this is just a guess, but if its only a 5 % of the WOW gamers, that means half a milion people , plus the ones not playing WOW and wanting a more challeing MMORPG, that's a lot of gamers that could make a couple of MMORPGS a success.
Well, certainly there are always people who want something different. However, I think it is pretty realistic to say that WOW's casual stance attracts a lot of people and more than anyone else.
You will never get the last person on earth. The question is whether a MMO company want to attract the masses or become niche. There are certainly niche MMO, niche video games, niche movies and niche books.
However, that does not mean that we should ignore what most people want in our discussion.
I agree that MMO companies (except Blizzard) are sometimes a bit out of touch.
But, I think that posters here on MMORPG.com are as far out of touch as anyone can possibly be. They think they know what kind of game would be succesfull, when in truth it's more likely that their dream games would be nearly impossible to make, or so boring that even they couldn't stand playing them, or both.
They don't know what to do. Make a WoW copy or come up with a new MMO. In the end they THINK that people whant to play a WoW copy so they work 5 years on making same kind of MMO like WoW. Or they stay inside for 5 years not knowing whats going on and then launch something that don't belong to the year.
When will someone break that and DO like Blizzard, copy the good and come out with something new!
Played: From Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa (Beta), EvE Online, City of Villians, Atlantica Online, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Pirates of the Burning Sea, PlanetSide, RF Online, Second Life, Fallen Earth.
First, you have to realize that the influx of newbies into the MMO market is endless. To them it's a brand new thing and it will be years before they become bored with the shit that older players are sick and tired of.
Second you have to remember that big companies like Blizzard and Sony are primarily interested in making $$, not innovation. So as long as the influx of newbies exceeds the number of players who are sick of the same old shit, the big boys will stick to the same old tried and true formula rather than spend $$ experimenting with something that may or may not fly. When Blizzard came out with their Burning Crusade expansion they did the financially prudent thing and didn't change the basic game formula. To them, as with so many other game companies, there is no point is fixing it if it isn't broken. There is a certain wisdom in that approach if you look at what happened to SWG when they switched to the NGE.
Third, gaming companies copy the sucess of other gaming companies. Warhammer online is a WoW clone (at least thats what Im hearing). However even if it isn't exactly a WoW clone, it is still an D&D clone inasmuch as it follows the worn out concept of kill, loot, and level like most other games out there. Again, with millions of dollars invested (and at stake) they prefer a "known brand" to something new.
Fourth, everyone is limited technology. Certain things can be done and others are a pipe dream. It would be great to have something along the lines of a holo-deck but it isn't going to happen in the near future.
The future of innovation lies with small and new gaming companies that need something completely new to make them stand out in a market flooded with sameness and are willing to risk some resources on innovation. Don't look to the big boys to produce something fresh and new, the future lies with the little guys.
First lets get the number thing straight on the WOW situation. WOW has 10 mill subs, yes that is alot of people. It was just all over the web just a few days ago that out of that 10 mill only 2,5 mill are US players, and a little less that that in the EU. So honestly out of those 10 mill, the US and EU only adds up to an educated guess i would say around 3.5 mill total. The rest is all in the asian market, and honestly i don't even count them when looking at a game and it's subscriptions numbers.
I agree with the op, so many mmo'ers are looking for a more in-depth mmo it 's not even funny. The most horrible thing that always happens when someone speaks their mind on this subject is, all the WOW fanbois just come out of the woodwork and throw up that sub count of 10 mill. It's like thier honor badge or something. I say get over yourselves.
So, are MMO companies out of touch. I would say yes. I think like any buisness, they want to make a profit, and bring in as many people to buy their product, but by doing the same thing as every other company is a total mistake in my book.
All dev companies follow a niche pattern. They either develop a fantasy or sci fi MMO and that's it. All these people who ramble on about this game is a niche game and this one is not is just believing their own bull. You either play in a world where thier is wizards, orcs and elves or you play in one that has guns and aliens and such.
To think that every other game outside of WOW is a niche game is like saying that every other brand outside of coke is a niche soft drink, utterly rediculous. Gaming companies need to get way more creative than what they are now, they have fallen into a deep rut that keeps getting deeper everytime they develop a game that is nothing more than the next.
Now i'm not saying that for the few million people from the US and EU that play WOW don't know what they want in their MMO to have fun. I'm just saying that there's hundtreds of thousands if not more that want something differant.
Just to be more exact it's 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia. http://www.blizzard.com/press/080122.shtml Even though WoW has tons of players I do agree that many of the current WoW players and others want something different and somewhat breaks the mold.
Ditto. I would say that a lot of WoW players remain there because it is relatively stable, and does not need a monster PC to run. But I would certainly not think that everyone playing is totally satisfied.
I'm sure that WoW would be less successful if there were competition - with both low/ med hardware requirements and good stability/ professionalism.
I'm just gonna say this. Think about what your asking here..
Why can't a company make a game that will suck me in for life so I don't have to live mine?
That's basicaly what your asking and isn't it expecting too much? it's a video game. You can't EVER get happiness from a video game. I say stop externalizing your problems and look to yourself for reason's why your so bored. TRUST ME, it's not the video game's fault. Do you honestly think some new amazing mmo is gonna come by and sweep you off your feet? You just want something to focus on. It's your internal drive for progression, but you limit this power to leveling up a character on your screen. Go level up in real life lol..
Why do you think so many people are making these kinds of posts? They are all realizing the emptiness that comes with an mmo, but are still in denial. Hey, I've been there, done that, your not alone. Don't feel bad about it. We're all going through it. I'm still checkin these forums as I wind down from it all. I can't even count the number of games I've tried and uninstalled over the last couple years. I just know that I'm sooo much happier when I'm making music then I am when playing games. Why? because I can create an enjoyable life if I practise enough music. I'm satisfying a need. MMO's satisfy no REAL need. They just substitute progression with an illusion, and we buy into it cause it's easier. Fuk that... I'd rather challenge myself.
FIrst of all, a little something about me. There isnt a single mmorpg out there that can keep my interest for more than a month (tops) Even that, there are many people that keep on asking for features like FULL LOOT, FREE PVP (No save zones), SAND BOX, no LVLS, no CLASSES, instead SKILLS that you train according to your needs -whatever they are, limitted INSTANCED ACTION, no TELEPORTING everywhere in the map with a number of clicks, no ITEM- BASED game and pvp -meaning that all you left doing in the game is running around raiding looking for that uber sword cause theres nothing else to do. Hell there are just people asking for just a CHANGE really.. Are game companies so fucking retarded that they dont listen to those people? Cause if i was in to marketing and shit i'd say theres a market here already warm and ready for a product that will be DIFFERENT. Even more people whine and bitch on how games totally suck nowdays, how they lack in keeping their interest after the lvl cap. After grinding thousands of quests, killing millions of mobs blah blah blah Wow have supposedly 10m of costumers, yet its considered mcdonalds by many people including the writer. Why is it so terrible for a game nowadays to push for innovations ? To try different things. To revolutionize the genre. Why this awfull stagnancy ? How mediocre things are.. Game companies need to fucking get a grip and start listening to their costumers instead of serving them shit all the time. Its all about BALANCE and CHANGE. Rant over.. What do you guys feel about it ?
Though I don't think I'm *suppose* to advertise this kind of stuff...
You should go play at UOGamers.
It's exactly what you ask for and (supposedly) has 700+ players active at any given time.
Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit.
The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features.
Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it.
People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along.
If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
I'm just gonna say this. Think about what your asking here..
Why can't a company make a game that will suck me in for life so I don't have to live mine?
That's basicaly what your asking and isn't it expecting too much? it's a video game. You can't EVER get happiness from a video game. I say stop externalizing your problems and look to yourself for reason's why your so bored. TRUST ME, it's not the video game's fault. Do you honestly think some new amazing mmo is gonna come by and sweep you off your feet? You just want something to focus on. It's your internal drive for progression, but you limit this power to leveling up a character on your screen. Go level up in real life lol..
Why do you think so many people are making these kinds of posts? They are all realizing the emptiness that comes with an mmo, but are still in denial. Hey, I've been there, done that, your not alone. Don't feel bad about it. We're all going through it. I'm still checkin these forums as I wind down from it all. I can't even count the number of games I've tried and uninstalled over the last couple years. I just know that I'm sooo much happier when I'm making music then I am when playing games. Why? because I can create an enjoyable life if I practise enough music. I'm satisfying a need. MMO's satisfy no REAL need. They just substitute progression with an illusion, and we buy into it cause it's easier. Fuk that... I'd rather challenge myself.
Who's with me!!!? *sound of crickets* lol..
In a way your right a computer game is not a substitute for real life and try escape it and problems solved also not gonne happen, but....
It still can be fun as much as you think your music doing right now its good you found that.
But to say a game can not satisfy your needs, is also not true, becouse after couple years you seems not to find any real enjoyment out of games or your just burned out it happen but you found a new way of filling in your life.
You maybe just found out after all these years games is not realy your cup of tea, can be also many reason why its not for you anymore.
But for others it still can enjoyable and many still enjoy games for years now, some are fast bored some dont, some like games some not.
And challenge is also something is for everybody different maybe some dont see any challenge in games others have there hands full try master it and many games have different lvls of difficulty.
Many factors can be reason why some like games for many years some not.
Im convinced that a computer game can be a challenge and enjoyment and even fill your life, this depends on indivitual.
You cant talk for others, its for everyone different how they experience life and in this case games vs life.
some fet up with games and find there thing in rl, and others just want a game with challenge and fun to fill there needs..
So many keep making topics, that they want a more challenging game, or just play whats right now on market, some hoping one day that game will come.
Have nice day:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I'm just gonna say this. Think about what your asking here..
Why can't a company make a game that will suck me in for life so I don't have to live mine?
That's basicaly what your asking and isn't it expecting too much? it's a video game. You can't EVER get happiness from a video game. I say stop externalizing your problems and look to yourself for reason's why your so bored. TRUST ME, it's not the video game's fault. Do you honestly think some new amazing mmo is gonna come by and sweep you off your feet? You just want something to focus on. It's your internal drive for progression, but you limit this power to leveling up a character on your screen. Go level up in real life lol..
Why do you think so many people are making these kinds of posts? They are all realizing the emptiness that comes with an mmo, but are still in denial. Hey, I've been there, done that, your not alone. Don't feel bad about it. We're all going through it. I'm still checkin these forums as I wind down from it all. I can't even count the number of games I've tried and uninstalled over the last couple years. I just know that I'm sooo much happier when I'm making music then I am when playing games. Why? because I can create an enjoyable life if I practise enough music. I'm satisfying a need. MMO's satisfy no REAL need. They just substitute progression with an illusion, and we buy into it cause it's easier. Fuk that... I'd rather challenge myself.
Who's with me!!!? *sound of crickets* lol..
QFT. Everyone on these boards needs to read what you wrote a few hundred more times until it sinks in.
But back on topic, I'd like to say a thing or two about niches.
There is plenty of room in this genre for well-made niche titles. You do not have to have millions of subs to be considered a success. Any start-up game studio would be ecstatic to see kind of numbers City of Heroes has gotten. And there could not be a more niche title than CoH: unique setting, unique gameplay, started out with no crafting and extremely simplistic content.
But it's had a steady couple hundred thousand subs, and seems to be doing fine. I no longer play because of my own issues with their design direction, but I'm sure it will thrive without me.
So anyway, the lesson here is that not all companies copy WoW. LoTRO and WAR are going to because they are licensed IPs trying to be safe, but there are others out there with some original ideas. Spellborn, Aion, and Hero's Journey come to mind. All three of these games stand a good chance of enjoying modest success (or better) because of their willingness to break from the norm.
Do these niche games match the OP's vision of a perfect game? No, but not because they don't listen. It's because the OP's dream game has been tried, and it failed. Simple as that.
Comments
So all what you read here on forums is just opinions of a very small group, so its not opinion of millions out there.
Thats why developers copying games like wow or dont dare to take risks they just look at sales, and hardcore open pvp dont bring in the bucks.
Our last hope is Darkfall:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Every game needs some innovation. Just because WoW is popular, doesn't mean that any WoW-clone is going to be successful. After all, why leave WoW simply for more of the same? Besides, Blizzard is taking care to expand on WoW and deliver more of the same anyhow.
WoW-clones will only attract the "grass is greener" people, and they'll probably move on again to something else.
There has to be some business sense in innovating right now. Delivering something different. How many WoW-clones can the market sustain? How many will even be successful? Personally, I don't see the rational in trying to steal WoW's customer base with more of the same, when there are other markets with no real game to call their own. And potetially a lot of these could be playing WoW while they wait for something else.
Nice rant, but the game companies and developers are paying attention to the players. Most of the players are ok with the present form of MMORPG format, and that these players are the majority. The minority are the ones who ask for changes, innovations, basically what you've mentioned above. But these people are the minority of the gamer population.
So who will the game companies focus on first? Of course they will focus on the majority of the players (more players = more $$$). But there are some game companies slowing expanding their development into the more innovative design and taking risks, we just have to be patient about it (what we want would take even more time to develop than the time to develop the present form of MMO).
Anyone who says they want "change" is full of BS. Change is a weasel word.Just look at the american the current political campaign. Obama says he is for "change" and people who support him say this as well. But if they wanted change they could elect Linden LaRouche or Ross Perot or some other whacko.
Same things has been done in the past on various other sides. Whether it was Republicans in the 1990's or the Whigs back in the 1800's. Or various parties in Britain or Europe.
They just say these generic things. That when you look at them and add in all the unsaid stuff mean something completely different. Its only 20% of the word that has any applicability. And the reason its so generic is that the voters don't have any real ideas and the candidates don't want to be tied down to any one statement they can be beat up with later. They just know what they don't like and then latch onto some meme they can spout that is close enough for them to always be close enough to weasel out of. Even voters who aren't campaigning do it, because they have to justify themselves to others.
They don't want any old change. It means they may not like the current situation. It doesn't mean they actually like change. And in fact some change will make them violently unhappy even though change is what they asked for. And no matter how much the sub-culture mouths off about change and rebellion etc no one is stupid enough to believe that all change is good even if they have essentially said just that.
Sorry to bring politics into it, but frankly politics is the closest thing to an MMO community.
Taking any of this stuff at any kind of face value is a recipe for disaster. Its not complete nonsense, but what people are saying is often not even close to what they fully mean. Even if they swear up and down that it is.
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Actually, what I would like is a reversal of the changes of the last few years.
Sure, some changes are good. But I can't say I've enjoyed many of the changes to MMOs since EQ released the Luclin expansion.
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
Hold on to past can be devestating, but believe in future can also be bleak and not so bright.If people would realy learn from past future would be one big utopia:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
People want change, but fear change at the same time.
Hence, in politic, they made promises they cannot keep due to the fact that they appeal to those who want a fresh view in politic, but in the end, they are afraid of the change in itself that they back down.
Some many stand true (in their wish to have changes), but it is hard when the majority is fear of changes. You cannot push anything forward when people wants it yet fears it at the same time.
Anyway, just want to say that you brought up an interesting comparison, but the you shouldn't say that "anyone who say they want change is full of BS". I personally want change in MMO design, hence I am working on the concepts and writing down the possible ideas by ways of refine a good system that already exist, removal/modify the present systems, and bring in new ideas for different systems.
Am I full of it? don't really know. If I ever get the chance to push the idea and concept forward, I would. But then again, I don't have the capital to start my own development. Hence, as a gamer, I can only either wait for companies to slowly expand their view on design, or when I get into the industry and try to push the idea and concept forward...
When one makes a statement like "I want change" without any kind of explanation as to what changes they think are are good and what changes they think are bad, then they are full of BS.Because they are making a statement that they are trying to put forth as if it has meaning when it has none. Because without you telling them which is good and which is bad it could mean anything at all. The possibilities are endless.
Further a statement like that is the basis for a con-job. Because its a leading statement meant to seduce people into believe whatever is they want most in their own mind, without any regard to what is actually the case or what the stater themselves may or may not be trying to mean. It not just allows but encourages people to assume the a very vague sense of their best hopes and the person making the statement never even needs to know what those hopes are.
Are you full of BS for wanting change. No. But the statement itself is a con-job. Whether you are conning someone else or conning yourself. In the end it matters not. It is a con-job. Because in the end it means nothing other than "I don't really like this thing and would like something else".
But clearly the statement "We need change" has a very different effect than "We don't really like this thing and woudl like something different", even though they are really exactly the same thing as each other when you read between the lines.
Why is this important? Because many people do not want "change". They really want msot things to be exactly the same thing and only a few things different. Unsatisfied EQ1 players are not necessarily playing EvE even though they wanted "change" and EvE is quite different.
It is a completely obvious statement that really says almost nothing but is meant to elicit the con-job response of people making tons of fantasical assumptions.
If you are unhappy with something, anything even to a small degree then of course you want change. That is the very definition of the state you are in. If you didn't want any change at all you are by definition completely satisfied. How many people are completely satisfied? Almost no one. So almost everyone want change to some degree.
Promise them change and it is a natural part of the human brain for them to leap to conclusions. It is the very basis of the con-job and the art of illusion. It is the mind that makes illusions work not the eye.
The tell is that promising change means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Ask every person whoever promised change specific questions and you will get a million different answers.
It is a statement that is true under almost any valuation and therefore devoid of content. But it is also a statement that is highly suggestive and is therefore extremely useful for provoking the natural human response of jumping to conclusions/assumptions. It is the essence of the con-job.
Now it takes an actual nefarious purpose to turn something into a con-job, but the phenomenon itself operates all on its own. The con man simply makes use of it. And people are conning themselves every single day. Epsecially when they want something. The more they want the easier they are to con.
Gotta love Hall and Oats.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
You sounds like Sony.
Devs often stick to what they believe is the "right thing", and they are often wrong. Even WoW has many huge flaws; we may all disagree as to what these flaws are...but we will almost all agree to say, there is no such thing as perfection.
I feel pretty safe to tell you that the overwhelming majority doesn't want to be trapped in raiding, not in PvP, nor in tradeskills...these could be options...but they want to be FREE from these aspects which they may find annoying or tempting, but at any rate, hindering.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Other than "the game that must not be named", there's nothing currently on the horizon (that we know of) like what the OP is asking for. Even if a company decided to create a game today along these lines, we wouldn't see it until about 2012.
I've decided on trying to focus on the enjoyment each new titles coming out will provide, and not gnash my teeth over what they may lack.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the next innovative MMO will come from these guys:
www.38studios.com
It's not going to come from the likes of Blizzard or SOE.
Blizzard brings in what, $150 million a month? They could finance a great MMO every few weeks if they felt like it. The cash they get from WoW will put them into a position to dominate for a long time.
I wonder what they will make next, it should be interesting.
Certainly at least 10M subscribers of WOW find the easy grinding, no corpse runs and teleports are more fun than unforgiving hardcore "challenge" gameplay.
I do not see any indication why MMORPG should not continue to go down the more casual approach. Not everyone wants a challenge. A lot of people are trying to relax and get AWAY from stress in their entertainment after work.
Well, I'm one of those 10M subscribers and I'm screaming for a more challenging MMORPG.
I said a big part and that's misleading. I meant not all of them, nor the majority, just a consierable amount of people. Of course this is just a guess, but if its only a 5 % of the WOW gamers, that means half a milion people , plus the ones not playing WOW and wanting a more challeing MMORPG, that's a lot of gamers that could make a couple of MMORPGS a success.
Well, certainly there are always people who want something different. However, I think it is pretty realistic to say that WOW's casual stance attracts a lot of people and more than anyone else.
You will never get the last person on earth. The question is whether a MMO company want to attract the masses or become niche. There are certainly niche MMO, niche video games, niche movies and niche books.
However, that does not mean that we should ignore what most people want in our discussion.
QFT
[CENTER][IMG]http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isred.jpg[/IMG][URL=http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp][B]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/B][/URL]
They don't know what to do. Make a WoW copy or come up with a new MMO. In the end they THINK that people whant to play a WoW copy so they work 5 years on making same kind of MMO like WoW. Or they stay inside for 5 years not knowing whats going on and then launch something that don't belong to the year.
When will someone break that and DO like Blizzard, copy the good and come out with something new!
Played:
From Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa (Beta), EvE Online, City of Villians, Atlantica Online, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Pirates of the Burning Sea, PlanetSide, RF Online, Second Life, Fallen Earth.
I'll tell you what I've been saying all along.
First, you have to realize that the influx of newbies into the MMO market is endless. To them it's a brand new thing and it will be years before they become bored with the shit that older players are sick and tired of.
Second you have to remember that big companies like Blizzard and Sony are primarily interested in making $$, not innovation. So as long as the influx of newbies exceeds the number of players who are sick of the same old shit, the big boys will stick to the same old tried and true formula rather than spend $$ experimenting with something that may or may not fly. When Blizzard came out with their Burning Crusade expansion they did the financially prudent thing and didn't change the basic game formula. To them, as with so many other game companies, there is no point is fixing it if it isn't broken. There is a certain wisdom in that approach if you look at what happened to SWG when they switched to the NGE.
Third, gaming companies copy the sucess of other gaming companies. Warhammer online is a WoW clone (at least thats what Im hearing). However even if it isn't exactly a WoW clone, it is still an D&D clone inasmuch as it follows the worn out concept of kill, loot, and level like most other games out there. Again, with millions of dollars invested (and at stake) they prefer a "known brand" to something new.
Fourth, everyone is limited technology. Certain things can be done and others are a pipe dream. It would be great to have something along the lines of a holo-deck but it isn't going to happen in the near future.
The future of innovation lies with small and new gaming companies that need something completely new to make them stand out in a market flooded with sameness and are willing to risk some resources on innovation. Don't look to the big boys to produce something fresh and new, the future lies with the little guys.
First lets get the number thing straight on the WOW situation. WOW has 10 mill subs, yes that is alot of people. It was just all over the web just a few days ago that out of that 10 mill only 2,5 mill are US players, and a little less that that in the EU. So honestly out of those 10 mill, the US and EU only adds up to an educated guess i would say around 3.5 mill total. The rest is all in the asian market, and honestly i don't even count them when looking at a game and it's subscriptions numbers.
I agree with the op, so many mmo'ers are looking for a more in-depth mmo it 's not even funny. The most horrible thing that always happens when someone speaks their mind on this subject is, all the WOW fanbois just come out of the woodwork and throw up that sub count of 10 mill. It's like thier honor badge or something. I say get over yourselves.
So, are MMO companies out of touch. I would say yes. I think like any buisness, they want to make a profit, and bring in as many people to buy their product, but by doing the same thing as every other company is a total mistake in my book.
All dev companies follow a niche pattern. They either develop a fantasy or sci fi MMO and that's it. All these people who ramble on about this game is a niche game and this one is not is just believing their own bull. You either play in a world where thier is wizards, orcs and elves or you play in one that has guns and aliens and such.
To think that every other game outside of WOW is a niche game is like saying that every other brand outside of coke is a niche soft drink, utterly rediculous. Gaming companies need to get way more creative than what they are now, they have fallen into a deep rut that keeps getting deeper everytime they develop a game that is nothing more than the next.
Now i'm not saying that for the few million people from the US and EU that play WOW don't know what they want in their MMO to have fun. I'm just saying that there's hundtreds of thousands if not more that want something differant.
Just to be more exact it's 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and approximately 5.5 million in Asia.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/080122.shtml
Even though WoW has tons of players I do agree that many of the current WoW players and others want something different and somewhat breaks the mold.
I'm sure that WoW would be less successful if there were competition - with both low/ med hardware requirements and good stability/ professionalism.
I'm just gonna say this. Think about what your asking here..
Why can't a company make a game that will suck me in for life so I don't have to live mine?
That's basicaly what your asking and isn't it expecting too much? it's a video game. You can't EVER get happiness from a video game. I say stop externalizing your problems and look to yourself for reason's why your so bored. TRUST ME, it's not the video game's fault. Do you honestly think some new amazing mmo is gonna come by and sweep you off your feet? You just want something to focus on. It's your internal drive for progression, but you limit this power to leveling up a character on your screen. Go level up in real life lol..
Why do you think so many people are making these kinds of posts? They are all realizing the emptiness that comes with an mmo, but are still in denial. Hey, I've been there, done that, your not alone. Don't feel bad about it. We're all going through it. I'm still checkin these forums as I wind down from it all. I can't even count the number of games I've tried and uninstalled over the last couple years. I just know that I'm sooo much happier when I'm making music then I am when playing games. Why? because I can create an enjoyable life if I practise enough music. I'm satisfying a need. MMO's satisfy no REAL need. They just substitute progression with an illusion, and we buy into it cause it's easier. Fuk that... I'd rather challenge myself.
Who's with me!!!? *sound of crickets* lol..
Though I don't think I'm *suppose* to advertise this kind of stuff...
You should go play at UOGamers.
It's exactly what you ask for and (supposedly) has 700+ players active at any given time.
Sorry MMORPG.com if I broke some kind of rule...
Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit.
The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features.
Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it.
People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along.
If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
It still can be fun as much as you think your music doing right now its good you found that.
But to say a game can not satisfy your needs, is also not true, becouse after couple years you seems not to find any real enjoyment out of games or your just burned out it happen but you found a new way of filling in your life.
You maybe just found out after all these years games is not realy your cup of tea, can be also many reason why its not for you anymore.
But for others it still can enjoyable and many still enjoy games for years now, some are fast bored some dont, some like games some not.
And challenge is also something is for everybody different maybe some dont see any challenge in games others have there hands full try master it and many games have different lvls of difficulty.
Many factors can be reason why some like games for many years some not.
Im convinced that a computer game can be a challenge and enjoyment and even fill your life, this depends on indivitual.
You cant talk for others, its for everyone different how they experience life and in this case games vs life.
some fet up with games and find there thing in rl, and others just want a game with challenge and fun to fill there needs..
So many keep making topics, that they want a more challenging game, or just play whats right now on market, some hoping one day that game will come.
Have nice day:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
But back on topic, I'd like to say a thing or two about niches.
There is plenty of room in this genre for well-made niche titles. You do not have to have millions of subs to be considered a success. Any start-up game studio would be ecstatic to see kind of numbers City of Heroes has gotten. And there could not be a more niche title than CoH: unique setting, unique gameplay, started out with no crafting and extremely simplistic content.
But it's had a steady couple hundred thousand subs, and seems to be doing fine. I no longer play because of my own issues with their design direction, but I'm sure it will thrive without me.
So anyway, the lesson here is that not all companies copy WoW. LoTRO and WAR are going to because they are licensed IPs trying to be safe, but there are others out there with some original ideas. Spellborn, Aion, and Hero's Journey come to mind. All three of these games stand a good chance of enjoying modest success (or better) because of their willingness to break from the norm.
Do these niche games match the OP's vision of a perfect game? No, but not because they don't listen. It's because the OP's dream game has been tried, and it failed. Simple as that.