Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit. The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features. Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it. People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along. If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
Wow...bravo...just..bravo lets all stress ourselves out with a constant challenge & struggle & strife all day so that our brains explode and we leap off cliffs into never never land. Games are about fun and for some a super hard challenge is fun, for others its not, and then for everyone else we like a happy mix of both.
Honestly why would anyone who works 40+ hours a week under stress and pressure want to play a game that puts you under alot of pressure? Both type of games are well supported ... its just unfortante the more 'unique' 'challenging' games are usually half crap and filled with a bunch of people who think their epeen is so big it represents their IQ or atleast their real Peen. If it wasn't for this sort of mentality which you obviously have people would be far more accomadating to trying the so called hardcore elite super epeen games.
People who are self proclaimed hard core pure gaming elitists wonder why everyone laughs silently behind their back, what reality are you from laying smack on some of the greats of original games?! If it hadn't of been for games like Pong, Pac Man, & Tetris hell or even Super Mario we wouldn't have ANY games today. During the time period they came out they were extremely challenging if your reflexes both mental and physical sucked wind you basically never got passed the first few levels of pacman or mario.
Those four games alone helped to define & start the video game industry on the rise to what it is today without them there'd be a huge lack of interest in funding & making games. You can't deny the power of the greats unless your just that unfamiliar with the history of the game industry. You know I think the history channel or the learning channel actually HAS an hour long show on the Rise of the Game Industry you should watch it and then kick yourself in the rear for your slant against Pac Man!
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Making the right game is hard. We've all got a grasp of what is possible and our minds work faster then the developement on this subject. So we are sure it is really possible to get sociall rp kicks combined with crazy events, npc-action and PvP. But how can developers code such a place out of the blue without monies? Producers milking out this fealing with absurd prices for graphical successfull but still one dimensional substitutes like wow and lotrol. The only thing you can do is boycot all the conservative trash games like wow and lotrol but stimulate indy games.... which for me has been face of mankind and, in the near future, fallen earth.
Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit.
The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features.
Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it.
People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along.
If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
So whats your point here?
Nobody have made his own brain, there can't be 6billion super intelligent humans on this planet thats a fact.
Dont feel yourself so superior it makes you les intelligent:P
We will always have this, learn to live with it and if your so intelligent use it to help those who you dont have your so called superior intellect, instead of look down upon those lesser intellects its not there fault.
If we all where more caring and loving we would have a far better world:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit. The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features. Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it. People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along. If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
Wow...bravo...just..bravo lets all stress ourselves out with a constant challenge & struggle & strife all day so that our brains explode and we leap off cliffs into never never land. Games are about fun and for some a super hard challenge is fun, for others its not, and then for everyone else we like a happy mix of both.
Honestly why would anyone who works 40+ hours a week under stress and pressure want to play a game that puts you under alot of pressure? Both type of games are well supported ... its just unfortante the more 'unique' 'challenging' games are usually half crap and filled with a bunch of people who think their epeen is so big it represents their IQ or atleast their real Peen. If it wasn't for this sort of mentality which you obviously have people would be far more accomadating to trying the so called hardcore elite super epeen games.
People who are self proclaimed hard core pure gaming elitists wonder why everyone laughs silently behind their back, what reality are you from laying smack on some of the greats of original games?! If it hadn't of been for games like Pong, Pac Man, & Tetris hell or even Super Mario we wouldn't have ANY games today. During the time period they came out they were extremely challenging if your reflexes both mental and physical sucked wind you basically never got passed the first few levels of pacman or mario.
Those four games alone helped to define & start the video game industry on the rise to what it is today without them there'd be a huge lack of interest in funding & making games. You can't deny the power of the greats unless your just that unfamiliar with the history of the game industry. You know I think the history channel or the learning channel actually HAS an hour long show on the Rise of the Game Industry you should watch it and then kick yourself in the rear for your slant against Pac Man!
No reason to get defensive about something you stated you agree with. I am simply stating the obvious. It should not be a surprise why MMO’s are doomed to be terrible from now on. WoW has made this genre popular. By being popular game manufacturers will now make games that appeal to the majority player base. Now that 97% of the MMO player base has the mental capacity of an 8yr old, then of course these games are going to be unchallenging.
The MMO community used to be a small group of computer geeks, therefore old PC games had to appeal to a more demanding player base. As the genre of MMO’s has become more popular they dumbed it down to match the majority, just like in every industry that appeals to the masses. There is not a single industry that has kept its complexity and continued to appeal to the majority. The act of being complex and popular is a by definition a dichotomy.
As the size of the industry grows so does the room for niche products. There is nothing stopping MMO companies from making games that target certain segments.
They most likely won't, not because of the success of WoW, but because of the miserable track record of games that didn't follow the EQ model. Perhaps there would be more variety in the genre if companies had taken their time to make a quality product that people would subscribe to. Instead we get terrible releases like Vanguard, Auto Assault, Dark/Light, Seed, Horizons, SWG, Matrix, HG:london, The Sims, etc etc. Just because 10 million people play WoW doesn't mean they won't play anything else.
There is just as much room now, if not more, for different types of games, but there just isn't much incentive to take that path. Who is to blame for that?
FIrst of all, a little something about me. There isnt a single mmorpg out there that can keep my interest for more than a month (tops) Even that, there are many people that keep on asking for features like FULL LOOT, FREE PVP (No save zones), SAND BOX, no LVLS, no CLASSES, instead SKILLS that you train according to your needs -whatever they are, limitted INSTANCED ACTION, no TELEPORTING everywhere in the map with a number of clicks, no ITEM- BASED game and pvp -meaning that all you left doing in the game is running around raiding looking for that uber sword cause theres nothing else to do. Hell there are just people asking for just a CHANGE really.. Are game companies so fucking retarded that they dont listen to those people? Cause if i was in to marketing and shit i'd say theres a market here already warm and ready for a product that will be DIFFERENT. Even more people whine and bitch on how games totally suck nowdays, how they lack in keeping their interest after the lvl cap. After grinding thousands of quests, killing millions of mobs blah blah blah Wow have supposedly 10m of costumers, yet its considered mcdonalds by many people including the writer. Why is it so terrible for a game nowadays to push for innovations ? To try different things. To revolutionize the genre. Why this awfull stagnancy ? How mediocre things are.. Game companies need to fucking get a grip and start listening to their costumers instead of serving them shit all the time. Its all about BALANCE and CHANGE. Rant over.. What do you guys feel about it ?
I totally agree with most of your points however you have to consider how much it costs to develop a game - Didn't I read that one gaming company spent 10M USD on a game and then had nothing to show for it?
Its easier to buy the engines from other companies and then tweak them with new graphics than to develop you own from scratch.
I would love to see a game that actually takes account of time zones - why I can always track the baddie or quest giver regardless of if its 6 AM or 6PM ?.
Why can't you have some single shot quests? - i.e. if one person starts it the counter starts clicking down for everyone and the first person to do it is the winner - then you could rob them if you like - that brings a whole new dimension to PVP !!!!
Why are Uber characters allowed to just wander around - In real life if you had worked your way up won't you be the target of assination or some one wanting to take your title as best Fighter/Warlock/ Druid/Jedi etc.
Why can Bosses and other key people be killed and then everyone just sits waiting while they respawn. Perhaps a player should step into that role - That would open up the PRG side (How many of us actually play the RPG element of mmoRPG's as it doesn't make a blind bit of difference how you react with the world you are in?)
Why do I have to log in to be a part of the game ? - Why aren't "cyberpunk / tech future" games emailing me or texting me with in game info - "Do you want a job?" "I've heard you can make such and such"
It all comes down to the cost of developing vs returns and how playable it would make the game - One mans WoW is anothers SWG !!!
So you want them to listen to you... not the 9 mil other players. Face the facts, your opinion is worth nothing. On the same note, you should play shadowbane it's pretty hardcore pvp.. just give me your character's names. I'd like to greet you a few times.
Actually, you just got lucky. I am an MMO developer and I am listening to you. I read your comments, I think you have some good ideas and I'm reading the same sort of thing from a lot of other people on this forum. Everyone seems to think that all MMO companies are forced by financial considerations to make games that appeal to the most people. Keep in mind that the type of games that appeal to the most people already exist. Any new company that wants to go into that market has some stiff competition. At this point, it makes more sense to me to develop games that are different and appeal to people who don't like the more popular games.
We don't need to get 9 million players to be successful. Think about it. 17,000 players at $5 a month is over a million dollars a year. We'd be happy with a lot less than that. Oh, I should mention that if you don't need to have the latest graphics, then creating an MMO doesn't have to cost millions. That's just the way the big companies have been doing it. The technology is getting cheaper.
Anyway, I have created a game that is now available for free playtesting. it is tenatively called "Gods of Magic" though we may change the name, especially if someone else is already using it. The idea is that players can appeal to "gods" in the game to give them money, items or magic. They can also appeal to the gods to change the game. Players can, by learning magic, change the game themselves and even create their own areas like in the old text-based MUD games. Players can become "gods" of the game who control how the game works.
The idea is for the game to grow by means of interaction between "gods" who have vast powers, and newer players who will find themselves in a world similar to that of Greek mythology where mortals strive and struggle to achieve their own goals, but are often playthings of fickle bickering gods.
If that idea doesn't sound all that great. I'm open to other suggestions.
If anyone wants to try the Magic of the Gods game, click here:
It will tell you whether the game server is still running Magic of the Gods and will give you a link and instructions to download the software and get started.
At the present time there is not much to this game. It has a few areas you can go to, some items, some different types of characters. PvP is allowed everywhere. There's not a lot to do yet. The point is not what's already there. The point is what do you want to be there?
You can contact me at champion67@gmail.com to tell me game ideas, especially comments about Magic of the Gods.
Oh, the download instructions are on a forum devoted to an entirely different game. The reason for that is that I was previously running a 3D MMORPG version of that game on the same game server, but technical problems and doubts about whether there is a market for it have put that project on hold while we see what we can do with "Magic of the Gods".
Eve is a sandbox mmorpg and it is succsessfull, not the same as Wow though it doesnt have millions of subscribers but it has enough to enable the Company to grow and to keep on improving on the game, I mean Eve is 5 years old now and showing no signs of dieing off, on the contrary there is alot of new stuff I am looking forward to. So it IS possable to make such a game and be successfull.
Some people like PVE Grindfests and some prefer to butcher each other online different strokes ... you know, dont see the need for a 7 page flame fest haha.
Comments
Wow...bravo...just..bravo lets all stress ourselves out with a constant challenge & struggle & strife all day so that our brains explode and we leap off cliffs into never never land. Games are about fun and for some a super hard challenge is fun, for others its not, and then for everyone else we like a happy mix of both.
Honestly why would anyone who works 40+ hours a week under stress and pressure want to play a game that puts you under alot of pressure? Both type of games are well supported ... its just unfortante the more 'unique' 'challenging' games are usually half crap and filled with a bunch of people who think their epeen is so big it represents their IQ or atleast their real Peen. If it wasn't for this sort of mentality which you obviously have people would be far more accomadating to trying the so called hardcore elite super epeen games.
People who are self proclaimed hard core pure gaming elitists wonder why everyone laughs silently behind their back, what reality are you from laying smack on some of the greats of original games?! If it hadn't of been for games like Pong, Pac Man, & Tetris hell or even Super Mario we wouldn't have ANY games today. During the time period they came out they were extremely challenging if your reflexes both mental and physical sucked wind you basically never got passed the first few levels of pacman or mario.
Those four games alone helped to define & start the video game industry on the rise to what it is today without them there'd be a huge lack of interest in funding & making games. You can't deny the power of the greats unless your just that unfamiliar with the history of the game industry. You know I think the history channel or the learning channel actually HAS an hour long show on the Rise of the Game Industry you should watch it and then kick yourself in the rear for your slant against Pac Man!
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Making the right game is hard. We've all got a grasp of what is possible and our minds work faster then the developement on this subject. So we are sure it is really possible to get sociall rp kicks combined with crazy events, npc-action and PvP. But how can developers code such a place out of the blue without monies? Producers milking out this fealing with absurd prices for graphical successfull but still one dimensional substitutes like wow and lotrol.
The only thing you can do is boycot all the conservative trash games like wow and lotrol but stimulate indy games.... which for me has been face of mankind and, in the near future, fallen earth.
Originally posted by Brainy
Saying that the majority of people like one games features over another is giving the average persons intelligence way to much credit.
The average person is basically just a zombie. It doesnt matter what features are in the game, all that really matters is if other people are playing it. People just want to vegetate, consume food, and sleep. They do this all their lives, in work, school, games, TV, whatever. I doubt more than 3% actually like to think and be introduced to new exciting features.
Complicated, skill based games, with lots of options and decisions dont appeal to this group. All that really matters is, does it look pretty, is it affordable, will it work on their computer/system, is it dumbed down enough to where a 6-year old can play it.
People want games like Pong, Pac-Man, Guitar Hero, WoW, Tetris, Super Mario Brothers, WII sports...., as long as theres a perception of popularity then thats enough to gain their interest. They are perfectly content until the next lemming activity comes along.
If you cant figure it out in 5 minutes then you already lost the average consumer.
So whats your point here?
Nobody have made his own brain, there can't be 6billion super intelligent humans on this planet thats a fact.
Dont feel yourself so superior it makes you les intelligent:P
We will always have this, learn to live with it and if your so intelligent use it to help those who you dont have your so called superior intellect, instead of look down upon those lesser intellects its not there fault.
If we all where more caring and loving we would have a far better world:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Wow...bravo...just..bravo lets all stress ourselves out with a constant challenge & struggle & strife all day so that our brains explode and we leap off cliffs into never never land. Games are about fun and for some a super hard challenge is fun, for others its not, and then for everyone else we like a happy mix of both.
Honestly why would anyone who works 40+ hours a week under stress and pressure want to play a game that puts you under alot of pressure? Both type of games are well supported ... its just unfortante the more 'unique' 'challenging' games are usually half crap and filled with a bunch of people who think their epeen is so big it represents their IQ or atleast their real Peen. If it wasn't for this sort of mentality which you obviously have people would be far more accomadating to trying the so called hardcore elite super epeen games.
People who are self proclaimed hard core pure gaming elitists wonder why everyone laughs silently behind their back, what reality are you from laying smack on some of the greats of original games?! If it hadn't of been for games like Pong, Pac Man, & Tetris hell or even Super Mario we wouldn't have ANY games today. During the time period they came out they were extremely challenging if your reflexes both mental and physical sucked wind you basically never got passed the first few levels of pacman or mario.
Those four games alone helped to define & start the video game industry on the rise to what it is today without them there'd be a huge lack of interest in funding & making games. You can't deny the power of the greats unless your just that unfamiliar with the history of the game industry. You know I think the history channel or the learning channel actually HAS an hour long show on the Rise of the Game Industry you should watch it and then kick yourself in the rear for your slant against Pac Man!
No reason to get defensive about something you stated you agree with. I am simply stating the obvious. It should not be a surprise why MMO’s are doomed to be terrible from now on. WoW has made this genre popular. By being popular game manufacturers will now make games that appeal to the majority player base. Now that 97% of the MMO player base has the mental capacity of an 8yr old, then of course these games are going to be unchallenging.
As the size of the industry grows so does the room for niche products. There is nothing stopping MMO companies from making games that target certain segments.
They most likely won't, not because of the success of WoW, but because of the miserable track record of games that didn't follow the EQ model. Perhaps there would be more variety in the genre if companies had taken their time to make a quality product that people would subscribe to. Instead we get terrible releases like Vanguard, Auto Assault, Dark/Light, Seed, Horizons, SWG, Matrix, HG:london, The Sims, etc etc. Just because 10 million people play WoW doesn't mean they won't play anything else.
There is just as much room now, if not more, for different types of games, but there just isn't much incentive to take that path. Who is to blame for that?
I totally agree with most of your points however you have to consider how much it costs to develop a game - Didn't I read that one gaming company spent 10M USD on a game and then had nothing to show for it?
Its easier to buy the engines from other companies and then tweak them with new graphics than to develop you own from scratch.
I would love to see a game that actually takes account of time zones - why I can always track the baddie or quest giver regardless of if its 6 AM or 6PM ?.
Why can't you have some single shot quests? - i.e. if one person starts it the counter starts clicking down for everyone and the first person to do it is the winner - then you could rob them if you like - that brings a whole new dimension to PVP !!!!
Why are Uber characters allowed to just wander around - In real life if you had worked your way up won't you be the target of assination or some one wanting to take your title as best Fighter/Warlock/ Druid/Jedi etc.
Why can Bosses and other key people be killed and then everyone just sits waiting while they respawn. Perhaps a player should step into that role - That would open up the PRG side (How many of us actually play the RPG element of mmoRPG's as it doesn't make a blind bit of difference how you react with the world you are in?)
Why do I have to log in to be a part of the game ? - Why aren't "cyberpunk / tech future" games emailing me or texting me with in game info - "Do you want a job?" "I've heard you can make such and such"
It all comes down to the cost of developing vs returns and how playable it would make the game - One mans WoW is anothers SWG !!!
So you want them to listen to you... not the 9 mil other players. Face the facts, your opinion is worth nothing. On the same note, you should play shadowbane it's pretty hardcore pvp.. just give me your character's names. I'd like to greet you a few times.
Actually, you just got lucky. I am an MMO developer and I am listening to you. I read your comments, I think you have some good ideas and I'm reading the same sort of thing from a lot of other people on this forum. Everyone seems to think that all MMO companies are forced by financial considerations to make games that appeal to the most people. Keep in mind that the type of games that appeal to the most people already exist. Any new company that wants to go into that market has some stiff competition. At this point, it makes more sense to me to develop games that are different and appeal to people who don't like the more popular games.
We don't need to get 9 million players to be successful. Think about it. 17,000 players at $5 a month is over a million dollars a year. We'd be happy with a lot less than that. Oh, I should mention that if you don't need to have the latest graphics, then creating an MMO doesn't have to cost millions. That's just the way the big companies have been doing it. The technology is getting cheaper.
Anyway, I have created a game that is now available for free playtesting. it is tenatively called "Gods of Magic" though we may change the name, especially if someone else is already using it. The idea is that players can appeal to "gods" in the game to give them money, items or magic. They can also appeal to the gods to change the game. Players can, by learning magic, change the game themselves and even create their own areas like in the old text-based MUD games. Players can become "gods" of the game who control how the game works.
The idea is for the game to grow by means of interaction between "gods" who have vast powers, and newer players who will find themselves in a world similar to that of Greek mythology where mortals strive and struggle to achieve their own goals, but are often playthings of fickle bickering gods.
If that idea doesn't sound all that great. I'm open to other suggestions.
If anyone wants to try the Magic of the Gods game, click here:
www.naegame.proboards83.com/index.cgi
or paste this into your browser:
http://www.naegame.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1189212425
It will tell you whether the game server is still running Magic of the Gods and will give you a link and instructions to download the software and get started.
At the present time there is not much to this game. It has a few areas you can go to, some items, some different types of characters. PvP is allowed everywhere. There's not a lot to do yet. The point is not what's already there. The point is what do you want to be there?
You can contact me at champion67@gmail.com to tell me game ideas, especially comments about Magic of the Gods.
Oh, the download instructions are on a forum devoted to an entirely different game. The reason for that is that I was previously running a 3D MMORPG version of that game on the same game server, but technical problems and doubts about whether there is a market for it have put that project on hold while we see what we can do with "Magic of the Gods".
Eve is a sandbox mmorpg and it is succsessfull, not the same as Wow though it doesnt have millions of subscribers but it has enough to enable the Company to grow and to keep on improving on the game, I mean Eve is 5 years old now and showing no signs of dieing off, on the contrary there is alot of new stuff I am looking forward to. So it IS possable to make such a game and be successfull.
Some people like PVE Grindfests and some prefer to butcher each other online different strokes ... you know, dont see the need for a 7 page flame fest haha.