How many times does this have to be said around here before people actually figure it out ? Oh well here it goes again. No, you will never catch up to a vet in total skillpoints but THIS DOESN'T MATTER. You can catch up in points where it matters. The only thing a vet can do is fly more races ships or do some other aspects of the game such as manufacturing or research. There is a finite number of points in each skill set whether it be gunnery, missles, navigation, spaceship command or whatever. Example: New Player trains up to fly the Minmatar Vagabond and trains up to use Tech 2 medium autocannons. He also trains up his navigation, engineering and electronics skills to fit and use the ship effectively. This will only take a few months. (I don't know the exact time and I am not about to do the math but it isn't a year that's for sure) Vet who has been playing for years can already fly this ship but maybe has gone and trained up to fly a Cerberus and the missle skills and while at it maybe he trained up to fly an Ishtar with all of the drone skills needed. Now of course the vet has way more skillpoints than the new player but no matter which ship the vet jumos into many of those skillpoints will have no effect whatsoever on the other ships. The skills needed to fly the vagabond will not help in the Ishtar since it does not use projectile guns, the drone skills the Ishtar would benefit would not mean anything in the Cerberus or the Vagabond and the missles skills the Cerberus needs will have no effect on the Ishtar or the Vagabond. I hope this helps people understand that catching up in total skillpoints is not equal to catching up in effectiveness within a shiptype which can be done relatively easily.
thanks for the effort, but I think this guy didn't really play EVE anyway. at least not for years. some people defend their right to have a wrong opinion. he does that.
he willfully misunderstands my whole posting (if he even read it), consciously misinterprets the verb "catching up" and puts words in my mouth on which he can disagree.
he probably never played EVE and sees the system as a kind of unlimited WoW leveling. one guy is at level 239 and I can never catch up, cause then he will be at level 421.
some trolls simply cannot deal with the fact that every skill only has 5 levels.
and if he looked at the killmails in big alliances he would see that BY FAR the most kills are made by ships which are easy to get. assault ships, HACs, interceptors and cruisers.
You missed my point. My point is that your point is based on groups. Well no crap. Ive played eve recently and long enough to know Frigates have a point in group pvp. My point next is anybody who think the'll ever face a vet in a ship that a vet would normally fly..... Not a T1 Friggy.... isdelusional and most likely toast. And if you been playing for awhile and u got beat 1v1 by a 6month player........nvm. A new player can play the game and be as effective in a GROUP as a vet but will never most likely just be able to beat him outright if the vet chooses the ship he can fly. I dont want to hear about placing the vet in a frigate by himself versus the noob in a frigate argument. Lets talk about a vet with a load of medium and small tech 2 drones vs a newish player. Eventually the new player may be able to get those things but by then CCP has a history of releasing better stuff.
Talk about missing points, did you even read my post and if you did do you even know what ship class the Vagabond, Ishtar and Cerberus are ? They are Heavy Assault Ships. These aren't n00b frigates, these are the ships that vets use to solo in and like I said you can be flying one of these just as effectively as a vet in a relatively short amount of time.
Lordmonkus, people who complain that 'they can never catch up!' will never, ever do so. Trolls rarely bother to think or act on the advice given to them on a forum, they just shout their opinion from the top of their lungs every now and then to get people to react.
As for the newbie EVEists who dearly want to play but are always discouraged by these trolls; ignore them. Read up not only here but on the EVE-Online forums, then choose to either try the game or not. If it doesn't work out for you, please don't come here to feed the trolls another round of encouragement. Just accept that your expectations for fun game and EVE-Online don't mix. Wait for Jumpgate: Evolution, it might be more your speed.
You missed my point. (you don't have a point. you have a soliliquy. trolls like soliloquies) My point is that your point is based on groups. Well no crap. Ive played eve recently and long enough to know Frigates have a point in group pvp. My point next is anybody who think the'll ever face a vet in a ship that a vet would normally fly..... Not a T1 Friggy....(on solo PvP, I wrote about assault frigates, HACs, cruisers and interceptors. but because that would not support your point, you simply change what I say to disagree. smells like a troll) isdelusional and most likely toast. And if you been playing for awhile and u got beat 1v1 by a 6month player........nvm. A new player can play the game and be as effective in a GROUP as a vet but will never most likely just be able to beat him outright if the vet chooses the ship he can fly(BS. if the "vet" sits in a mining ship, any noob in a drake can shred him in no time. the ship is important). I dont want to hear about placing the vet in a frigate by himself versus the noob in a frigate (yes, I know you did not read my posting, otherwise you could not answer to yourself talking. but do me the favor and just scroll up and read it. when I talk about solo PvP, I never talked about a frigate. you did, so you can disprove your own point and claim it was mine. I think you troll) argument. Lets talk about a vet with a load of medium and small tech 2 drones vs a newish player. (starting to repeat myself here, but an assault frigate, a HAC or a criuser is not hard to skill for. every noob can get one in no time. if you actually knew the game, you would know that. definitely a troll) Eventually the new player may be able to get those things but by then CCP has a history of releasing better stuff.
I know what crap you write about EVE on other game forums.
you don't even know what a instance is, or how mission probing works in EVE.
You missed my point. My point is that your point is based on groups. Well no crap. Ive played eve recently and long enough to know Frigates have a point in group pvp. My point next is anybody who think the'll ever face a vet in a ship that a vet would normally fly..... Not a T1 Friggy.... isdelusional and most likely toast. And if you been playing for awhile and u got beat 1v1 by a 6month player........nvm. A new player can play the game and be as effective in a GROUP as a vet but will never most likely just be able to beat him outright if the vet chooses the ship he can fly. I dont want to hear about placing the vet in a frigate by himself versus the noob in a frigate argument. Lets talk about a vet with a load of medium and small tech 2 drones vs a newish player. Eventually the new player may be able to get those things but by then CCP has a history of releasing better stuff.
You are wrong. In EVE pvp experience usually counts more then SPs in 1vs1. Believe me there are countless morons with high SP characters in EvE who can be killed easily by a young char with inferior ship.
The reason why most of the time the older char is winning in a more or less fair situation is simply the advantage of knowing the game (PvP) better.
You assume 1v1. True, many examples here make the same distinction, but in truth PVP in EVE is rarely, if ever, 1v1. If it is, it is usually miner/ratter vs pirate, and the pirate holds the upper hand because of fittings geared towards PVP combat, not because he has 10 mil skillpoints more (usually, it goes the other way around).
When talking about real PVP, it happens in groups. It can be group vs 1, also known as a 'gank', or it can be some variation of many vs many. Where combat happens, people fly in groups, for protection and because it is effective. Solomobiles are mainly cloakers, used to recon targets for small groups or for harassing industrials.
Before the Trinity upgrades, there was a nasty PVP solopwnmobile for really affluent vets, known as a 'mothership'. It's an XL-sized carrier meant for fleet support, but because it, like a titan, is impervious to EW, it could be used to solocamp low- to nullsec gates. With the Trinity upgrade, there is a relatively easy-to-get ship called 'Heavy Interdictor' that can be used to tackle a mothership, and because they cost about 30bil a pop, not many will risk them now for solocamping. So that Vet Vs. Noob-problem is solved as well.
Your point is that a noob can never catch up, yet you forget another issue: A noob becomes older, more experienced. A vet doesn't become an 'ubervet' in the time it takes the noob to learn the ropes. It does take time for a newbie to become a learned player, yes. But you assume in your context, if not in your text, that because newbs can't own vets from day 1, they can never, ever be able to do so.
1v1 you will get owned by most players playing since the game came out.
that is a lie. lets say a veteran player has 80 million points. take a player with only 30 million points.
the 30 million player is flying a battleship, any battleship you like, be it either a raven, a megathron, a abbadon, dominix, hell, even a scorpion would work. the only condition is that at least 25 million sp are directed towards this goal. so the pilot has T2 large weapons, T2 tank, T2 cap and fitting mods, good navigation/drones/engineering skills.
now the 80 million player can be flying any non capital ship. it doesnt matter which one. it can be another battleship, a command battlecruiser, a heavy assault ship... the important thing is that his skill points are not directed towards a single objective, instead he can fly most ships of all the races reasonably well.
if this two players were to have a 1vs1, i'd put all my money on the first pilot. and i am not even taking into account the possiblity that the older player may in fact have most of his skills on science/industry/trade
what people need to realize is that there is cap on how many skillpoints you can invest on any single spaceship, and once that cap is achieved, there is no way to improve your master of said ship. so after 20/25 million sp, the only thing a veteran player can do is spread wide, and begin training for other ship.
and this is the reason new players are perfectly able to compete even 1vs1 against veteran players.
I always wonder about these threads that seem to be trying to recruit new people to play EVE by telling them game isn't *that* hardcore, or grief-filled or time-consuming or whatever.
What does it matter? The game has a successful niche audience and it is profitable, why is there this constant bombardment of EVE ads, 'great for new player' threads and stuffing of yearly ballots? Do they really expect the market to suddenly turn to EVE when it hasn't so far?
Now EVE is being made available on Steam. What's the point? It's a niche game for a niche market and these constant attempts to recruit new players won't bring anymore to the game.
It's great the game has such devoted followers. They just need to realize that most gamers don't want to play this game even if they love it.
I always wonder about these threads that seem to be trying to recruit new people to play EVE by telling them game isn't *that* hardcore, or grief-filled or time-consuming or whatever. What does it matter? The game has a successful niche audience and it is profitable, why is there this constant bombardment of EVE ads, 'great for new player' threads and stuffing of yearly ballots? Do they really expect the market to suddenly turn to EVE when it hasn't so far? Now EVE is being made available on Steam. What's the point? It's a niche game for a niche market and these constant attempts to recruit new players won't bring anymore to the game. It's great the game has such devoted followers. They just need to realize that most gamers don't want to play this game even if they love it.
That's not the point of the post. The point of the post is to correct some of the very wrong views many people seem to have on EVE. Many new players are discouraged by reading such posts, players who might actually enjoy the game if they knew how it really worked as opposed to the blatant trolling that happens on these forums more often enough.
It's a post that sheds some light on the game-mechanics and the difficulties of the game and tells new players that the flaming in some of the other posts concerning EVE is not justified, but simply born from ignorance of the game. I am not pointing fingers here, but if you read the EVE-O Forum on this site from time to time, you can see how many people complain about the same, frikkin issues time and again and time and again, people like the OP and others have to tell people that their points are just raised because of inexperience, an unwillingness to actually learn the game, or blatant ignorance.
I personally like this post. It has some very good advice for new players in it and it explains in detail about some of the common misconceptions about the game. There are downsides to EVE, hence why I am no longer playing, but the downsides that are commonly brought up are simply NOT issues if you know what you are doing.
You would be surprised how many people have never heard of Eve or worse yet have heard of it but have only heard from people that it is 'too hardcore' or 'griefer filled'
It isn't like Eve players are jumping over to the other games forums and making threads about how great Eve is or 'not so hardcore'. Instead they are here to help inform the new players of how the game works rather than let some other jackasses come in here and bash the game giving a potential new player a very skewed view of the game.
Uh, the 'niche' audience has to hear about the game somehow. I came from WoW, would never have known about EVE if it wasn't for threads talking about EVE / Advertisement at various sites. I highly doubt CCP expects everyone to jump over to EVE but they want to see their game grow steadily as it has.
IF i was trolling i wouldnt have stated my original post the way I did ,it was very respectful and stated why I disagreed. I am not telling people not to play the game or that EvE is crap cause I enjoyed my time. So if you want to know what a troll is that is not what I'm doing. I'm saying in my honest opinion you'll never catch up with vet players. I'm not saying you'll never be as effective but you'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP new ships that CCP adds from time to time. Honestly just someone who feels different from you should not be called a troll. My first post was in no way trolling and I said EvE may not be for some players. I personally enjoyed it and stopped playing because being in college its hard to pay monthly.
I read every post here... I played EVE for 12 months...
Yes, straight.
I had 3 accounts.
I sold one character (my miner) for like 300 million or so ISK. (you can do that here).
I kept the other two... The second one (which really was my third) is about a year behind my main.. I spec'd him Caldari.. to be my mission runner. I had him up to speed to run level III missions (almost hit level IV but I had to gouge my eyes out first) with full T2 gear. Including missiles (not using T2 missiles for missions, but you get the idea).
He was fully ready to go into PvP if need be.
Do you need 6 months to get a character up to speed? No.
I took a PC, waited a week.. then took him out and killed some ISK farmer mining ICE in secure space. T1 ship.. crappy rockets... and basic warp scrammer hehe. Was in a kestrel I believe.
I stopped playing about 5 months because my corp broke up.. I tried going with another corp in 0.0 space.. but .... I was unable to play/wasn't feeling things.... and I got "let go" understandably.. now I am stuck in their space with my BS's and gear LOL.
I might try again... but even though I disagree with the OP, I also agree.
In EVE, you should not feel restricted, because you are not.
If you spend 2-3 months going in one direction, you will be useful. You can get a T2 fitted Battlecruiser in that time period.
Some helpful tips.
oNever fly anything you dont mind losing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (important, can't you tell?)
oThis game is social. Even the pirates fly in groups.
oNot everything is as it seems. Scams are legal, and just because that T1 frigate is all alone in .2 space, does not mean go in and attack it! (cause it ain't alone).
oAs I said, this game is social, find a corp, learn the ropes more and learn your area.
oYour area will be some part of space you hang out in.. yes, you will see that is true. You will get to know the locals and see what happens here, and know the market... Stay out of Jita LOL.
oGatecamps suck. If you want into low/null sec space... find a corp in those areas...Safety in numbers, and your corp/alliance may have a no fire agreement with them.
oPeople say you can PvP anytime.. that is so true. But PvE FIRST! If you have no money to replace what you have lost, you will quit. Get to level III and IV missions, then go out and have fun PvPing.
Talk about missing points, did you even read my post and if you did do you even know what ship class the Vagabond, Ishtar and Cerberus are ? They are Heavy Assault Ships. These aren't n00b frigates, these are the ships that vets use to solo in and like I said you can be flying one of these just as effectively as a vet in a relatively short amount of time.
I have a character that's 6 months old and he can fly a Vagabond (Heavy Assault ship) with all tier 2 gear. He still needs a month or so to round out some of his key skills to level 5, however I could have accomplished it all in about 4-5 months tops. (I spent quite a bit of time training up Sniper Battleship/hyrbrid guns first)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not saying you'll never be as effective but you'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP new ships that CCP adds from time to time.
All right, sorry about calling you a troll. There's been an overabundance of them on this thread and on the PVE-Server thread lately.
Still, I take issue with this sentence in your post. "You'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP ships"?
Why not? Skill training doesn't require you to PVP or even to collect unmanageable amounts of ISK. It just takes time, nothing more. All ships are for sale, and with invention, even if you can't get anyone to sell you a particular T2 ship, you can make it yourself.
There's nothing keeping you from flying most any ship you want (Titans notwithstanding). Yes, getting into capital ships is going to take a long time, and requires you to be active about it, but it's doable, as thousands of players have already shown.
The only thing in EVE keeping you from achieving something you want is your own attitude.
Talk about missing points, did you even read my post and if you did do you even know what ship class the Vagabond, Ishtar and Cerberus are ? They are Heavy Assault Ships. These aren't n00b frigates, these are the ships that vets use to solo in and like I said you can be flying one of these just as effectively as a vet in a relatively short amount of time.
I have a character that's 6 months old and he can fly a Vagabond (Heavy Assault ship) with all tier 2 gear. He still needs a month or so to round out some of his key skills to level 5, however I could have accomplished it all in about 4-5 months tops. (I spent quite a bit of time training up Sniper Battleship/hyrbrid guns first)
I have almost 25 mil SP and can't even use one tech II gun.
Honestly, you are much better off raising the other gunnery skills first then going to T2 weapons as they take a LONG time to get the skill points in. Getting T1 smalls aren't bad, its getting the mediums and heavies that take months to do. But if you get your other skills up, you will be far more effective.
Oh, and in case I missed out on my tips in my above post.
Spend your first month (after the first week of course getting basic skills) on your Learning Skills... Raise your stats, because you will shave months off training skills.
I remember a corp I was in... I was all excited when I got 2 million SPs in my gunnery skills. Some laughed on TS and told me that they had 10 million SPs lol.
Now I have like 6 or 8 million (hadn't logged on yet) in gunnery alone :P And my drones skills are through the roof as well.
I'm not saying you'll never be as effective but you'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP new ships that CCP adds from time to time.
Wow, talk about wrong. They added a ton of new ships that are quickly learned by people with relatively low SP. Now they also added a couple of high SP requirement ships also, but that is for those that have already training everything.
With the new Electronic Attack ships even a noob can cause a lot of trouble and run with the big boys. And even without that a person with 14 million SP can easily fly HACs, HICs, Recons, and Intys. All premium PVP ships and that is using all T2 weapons and gear.
And the best satisfaction in the game is not grinding isk, but it is destroying other peoples ships. The beauty of this game is when you kill someones ship it does not respawn, they lose it forever and need to buy another one. So the 15 billion is Isk damage I have caused is worth more to me then if I earned 50 billion isk. And that is with a 14 million SP char (with under 20 losses) so you don't need a 30 million SP to do well. Granted this is my 2nd character so it was built from the ground up to be elite.
I so love this game and living in 0.0 space (empire sucks and is boring as hell)
I keep hearing how many options people have in eve online. I personally dont buy it.
Mining is an option but it reduces you to staring at icons for X hours.
Mission running is an option but once you've done 60 you've done them all.
That leaves PvP - which of course is what the game is all about. PvP is a mixed bag but ultimately the ones making the decisions about where to fight in any decent sized alliance are the people who play 24 hours a day. Alliances are big organizations and unless you're very savy and very inclined you will not be making many of your own decisions.
So yes you can do lots of things but the game still steers you into 1 or 2 different directions. CCP has done nothing to acknowledge that oodles of ppl in NPC corps are trying to carebear. Most expansions are geared towards giving the alliances more tools to fight with, more options for pvp.
See, I CAN open up the map editor in Civilization IV and "play the game" that way if I wanted to. But there is the intended usage of the game and then there is what I actually do with it. I could sit in Empire and play eve without ever leaving too but as soon as you make a decision about what you do in this game you will find your options more limited.
If you want to live in true 00 and actually dock in someones station you're part of an organization that has bigger repsonsibilities, goals etc. Once you decide to do PvP you have to think about what fittings to put on, ship types, types of encounters etc (and good luck finding fights that aren't 'The Blob'). PvP and PvE ship configurations are oft times mutually exclusive.
Indeed, with all the options this game it says it has i find it does a good job pigeon holing characters into 1-3 set paths.
Sorry, I dont buy the 'your options are endless' mantra that comes with Eve. What you choose to do is indeed flexible but as soon as you engage in any content in any game you begin to set limits and how you get there etc.
Thank you for a well presented and balanced message. The OP is absolutely correct.
However, some of us are protesting that Eve is full of mean bullies (and it is) who have enormous advantages (but no, they do not.)
Look, Eve is huge. Generalities like "I always get killed by pirate gatecamps" tells us that you go to pirate systems without understanding the risks.
I have found that the player experience varies a lot depending on where you are. Some systems are loaded with PvPers looking for someone to attack. Going to one of these on a busy day (say Sunday) means there are even more trigger-happy pirates waiting in those systems.
There are maybe a hundred systems where gatecamping makes sense. Eve has maybe 5000 systems. Now, it is true that the gatecampers target the paths from safe to low sec space, because that's where the most value is.
Truism: Predators congregate around the watering holes and the paths to the watering holes in real life.
In Eve, they block the path from safe locations to dangerous ones. Now if you try to go past a gatecamp, you are going to get killed (well, if the campers are any good you should be killed.)
So how do you manage it? "TEAMWORK"
If you want to play SOLO stay away from the traditional paths to low sec space. But why do people want to play solo in a MMORPG? Would you try to solo a dungeon crawl or join up a party with fighters, healers, magic users and a rogue? Well it is the same in Eve. Join a corp and work with people. Dosen't work out? Join another corp!
Eventually you should find a bunch of people you like and who like you. To quote William Wallace (look him up) "If at first you do not succeed, try, try again!" You are only a quitter if you give up.
Anyway, the Eve forums are invaluable for learning the deep secrets of Eve, but being in a good corp should give you an inside track on WHAT to study first.
So, if you like space and space combat there is nothing nearly as good as Eve. But, and this is a critical truth, not everyone has the patience to take the time to learn the less obvious combat techniques.
If you just want to dive into a FPS and kill people, this is not the game for you.
Eve takes dedication and thought. If you do not prepare your ship properly, you will take a lot of damage. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your enemy is the key to surviving most situations.
In PvE the NPC faction has a reliable preference for weapons and ship defenses. In PvP however, human ingenuity means that some Amarr ships might have Caldari weapons, or a Minmatar attacker might be using Gallente guns.
Solo, you might fight someone and die because they did not do what you expected. However, in a group (Fleet in Eve terms) skills start to even out and so you can still win even if an opponent has better fittings or something you did not expect.
My last word: Try a player corporation for a week before giving up on Eve.
Enjoy, and fly safe!
ELITE (e'-leet) Best, outstanding, advanced, exceptional, brightest, above the ordinary, not for the masses. Requiring extrordinary sophistication and advanced skills. ex: "Eve-Online is an elite game."
I keep hearing how many options people have in eve online. I personally dont buy it.
well... I listed a lot of what you can do in my rather lengthy article. besides missioning and mining:
you can build stuff. almost everything in EVE is player made. and this sounds even less important than it is. there are people with over 50 million skillpoints out there who have almost no combat skills and produce tons of things and get filthy rich doing so.
you can ransom people for money.
you can protect people for money.
you can scout for money.
you can explore for yourself and find Hacking or Archaeology sites where you can get blueprints or invention artefacts
and then invent stuff
you can travel around and kill NPCs (ratting)
you can trade goods. you can trade everything and exploit differences in prices in this 5000 solar system world.
you can fly logistics for alliances or transport parts for alliances.
you can steal from players or scam them. (not nice but legal)
you can transport things for other players (be sure you are not scammed) via contracts
and some stuff I probably forgot
all that apart from alliance PvP, missioning and mining
I keep hearing how many options people have in eve online. I personally dont buy it. Mining is an option but it reduces you to staring at icons for X hours. Mission running is an option but once you've done 60 you've done them all. That leaves PvP - which of course is what the game is all about. PvP is a mixed bag but ultimately the ones making the decisions about where to fight in any decent sized alliance are the people who play 24 hours a day. Alliances are big organizations and unless you're very savy and very inclined you will not be making many of your own decisions. So yes you can do lots of things but the game still steers you into 1 or 2 different directions. CCP has done nothing to acknowledge that oodles of ppl in NPC corps are trying to carebear. Most expansions are geared towards giving the alliances more tools to fight with, more options for pvp. See, I CAN open up the map editor in Civilization IV and "play the game" that way if I wanted to. But there is the intended usage of the game and then there is what I actually do with it. I could sit in Empire and play eve without ever leaving too but as soon as you make a decision about what you do in this game you will find your options more limited. If you want to live in true 00 and actually dock in someones station you're part of an organization that has bigger repsonsibilities, goals etc. Once you decide to do PvP you have to think about what fittings to put on, ship types, types of encounters etc (and good luck finding fights that aren't 'The Blob'). PvP and PvE ship configurations are oft times mutually exclusive. Indeed, with all the options this game it says it has i find it does a good job pigeon holing characters into 1-3 set paths. Sorry, I dont buy the 'your options are endless' mantra that comes with Eve. What you choose to do is indeed flexible but as soon as you engage in any content in any game you begin to set limits and how you get there etc.
Who said these options were easy? Where did it say everyone should be able to do everything at any time? Should an alliance leader be as simple as logging in and proclaiming, "I AM AN ALLIANCE LEADER!" and then logging off? There's a lot of responsibility that comes with being an alliance leader or diplomat and I think that's excellent, it means there's a lot of depth to that role.
You can BE anything you want, but you can't be everything, that's true. It's the same as life. How many people do you know that are a Firefighter, Doctor, Engineer, and President of a whole damn Country AT THE SAME TIME? So real life limits you to a few set paths too then doesn't it? Sure you can also play a little guitar on the side, so too with EVE as in addition to being a pvp grunt I do a little trading.
I think it's a hell of a lot better than, "You can be a Paladin and have your spells and roles determined for you and then you can collect gear and stuff that is convineintly limited to your class!"
Comments
he willfully misunderstands my whole posting (if he even read it), consciously misinterprets the verb "catching up" and puts words in my mouth on which he can disagree.
he probably never played EVE and sees the system as a kind of unlimited WoW leveling. one guy is at level 239 and I can never catch up, cause then he will be at level 421.
some trolls simply cannot deal with the fact that every skill only has 5 levels.
and if he looked at the killmails in big alliances he would see that BY FAR the most kills are made by ships which are easy to get. assault ships, HACs, interceptors and cruisers.
You missed my point. My point is that your point is based on groups. Well no crap. Ive played eve recently and long enough to know Frigates have a point in group pvp. My point next is anybody who think the'll ever face a vet in a ship that a vet would normally fly..... Not a T1 Friggy.... isdelusional and most likely toast. And if you been playing for awhile and u got beat 1v1 by a 6month player........nvm. A new player can play the game and be as effective in a GROUP as a vet but will never most likely just be able to beat him outright if the vet chooses the ship he can fly. I dont want to hear about placing the vet in a frigate by himself versus the noob in a frigate argument. Lets talk about a vet with a load of medium and small tech 2 drones vs a newish player. Eventually the new player may be able to get those things but by then CCP has a history of releasing better stuff.
Talk about missing points, did you even read my post and if you did do you even know what ship class the Vagabond, Ishtar and Cerberus are ? They are Heavy Assault Ships. These aren't n00b frigates, these are the ships that vets use to solo in and like I said you can be flying one of these just as effectively as a vet in a relatively short amount of time.
Lordmonkus, people who complain that 'they can never catch up!' will never, ever do so. Trolls rarely bother to think or act on the advice given to them on a forum, they just shout their opinion from the top of their lungs every now and then to get people to react.
As for the newbie EVEists who dearly want to play but are always discouraged by these trolls; ignore them. Read up not only here but on the EVE-Online forums, then choose to either try the game or not. If it doesn't work out for you, please don't come here to feed the trolls another round of encouragement. Just accept that your expectations for fun game and EVE-Online don't mix. Wait for Jumpgate: Evolution, it might be more your speed.
you don't even know what a instance is, or how mission probing works in EVE.
you are a troll.
The reason why most of the time the older char is winning in a more or less fair situation is simply the advantage of knowing the game (PvP) better.
Dwillpower, your post has a significant flaw:
You assume 1v1. True, many examples here make the same distinction, but in truth PVP in EVE is rarely, if ever, 1v1. If it is, it is usually miner/ratter vs pirate, and the pirate holds the upper hand because of fittings geared towards PVP combat, not because he has 10 mil skillpoints more (usually, it goes the other way around).
When talking about real PVP, it happens in groups. It can be group vs 1, also known as a 'gank', or it can be some variation of many vs many. Where combat happens, people fly in groups, for protection and because it is effective. Solomobiles are mainly cloakers, used to recon targets for small groups or for harassing industrials.
Before the Trinity upgrades, there was a nasty PVP solopwnmobile for really affluent vets, known as a 'mothership'. It's an XL-sized carrier meant for fleet support, but because it, like a titan, is impervious to EW, it could be used to solocamp low- to nullsec gates. With the Trinity upgrade, there is a relatively easy-to-get ship called 'Heavy Interdictor' that can be used to tackle a mothership, and because they cost about 30bil a pop, not many will risk them now for solocamping. So that Vet Vs. Noob-problem is solved as well.
Your point is that a noob can never catch up, yet you forget another issue: A noob becomes older, more experienced. A vet doesn't become an 'ubervet' in the time it takes the noob to learn the ropes. It does take time for a newbie to become a learned player, yes. But you assume in your context, if not in your text, that because newbs can't own vets from day 1, they can never, ever be able to do so.
that is a lie. lets say a veteran player has 80 million points. take a player with only 30 million points.
the 30 million player is flying a battleship, any battleship you like, be it either a raven, a megathron, a abbadon, dominix, hell, even a scorpion would work. the only condition is that at least 25 million sp are directed towards this goal. so the pilot has T2 large weapons, T2 tank, T2 cap and fitting mods, good navigation/drones/engineering skills.
now the 80 million player can be flying any non capital ship. it doesnt matter which one. it can be another battleship, a command battlecruiser, a heavy assault ship... the important thing is that his skill points are not directed towards a single objective, instead he can fly most ships of all the races reasonably well.
if this two players were to have a 1vs1, i'd put all my money on the first pilot. and i am not even taking into account the possiblity that the older player may in fact have most of his skills on science/industry/trade
what people need to realize is that there is cap on how many skillpoints you can invest on any single spaceship, and once that cap is achieved, there is no way to improve your master of said ship. so after 20/25 million sp, the only thing a veteran player can do is spread wide, and begin training for other ship.
and this is the reason new players are perfectly able to compete even 1vs1 against veteran players.
I always wonder about these threads that seem to be trying to recruit new people to play EVE by telling them game isn't *that* hardcore, or grief-filled or time-consuming or whatever.
What does it matter? The game has a successful niche audience and it is profitable, why is there this constant bombardment of EVE ads, 'great for new player' threads and stuffing of yearly ballots? Do they really expect the market to suddenly turn to EVE when it hasn't so far?
Now EVE is being made available on Steam. What's the point? It's a niche game for a niche market and these constant attempts to recruit new players won't bring anymore to the game.
It's great the game has such devoted followers. They just need to realize that most gamers don't want to play this game even if they love it.
It's a post that sheds some light on the game-mechanics and the difficulties of the game and tells new players that the flaming in some of the other posts concerning EVE is not justified, but simply born from ignorance of the game. I am not pointing fingers here, but if you read the EVE-O Forum on this site from time to time, you can see how many people complain about the same, frikkin issues time and again and time and again, people like the OP and others have to tell people that their points are just raised because of inexperience, an unwillingness to actually learn the game, or blatant ignorance.
I personally like this post. It has some very good advice for new players in it and it explains in detail about some of the common misconceptions about the game. There are downsides to EVE, hence why I am no longer playing, but the downsides that are commonly brought up are simply NOT issues if you know what you are doing.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
You would be surprised how many people have never heard of Eve or worse yet have heard of it but have only heard from people that it is 'too hardcore' or 'griefer filled'
It isn't like Eve players are jumping over to the other games forums and making threads about how great Eve is or 'not so hardcore'. Instead they are here to help inform the new players of how the game works rather than let some other jackasses come in here and bash the game giving a potential new player a very skewed view of the game.
Uh, the 'niche' audience has to hear about the game somehow. I came from WoW, would never have known about EVE if it wasn't for threads talking about EVE / Advertisement at various sites. I highly doubt CCP expects everyone to jump over to EVE but they want to see their game grow steadily as it has.
IF i was trolling i wouldnt have stated my original post the way I did ,it was very respectful and stated why I disagreed. I am not telling people not to play the game or that EvE is crap cause I enjoyed my time. So if you want to know what a troll is that is not what I'm doing. I'm saying in my honest opinion you'll never catch up with vet players. I'm not saying you'll never be as effective but you'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP new ships that CCP adds from time to time. Honestly just someone who feels different from you should not be called a troll. My first post was in no way trolling and I said EvE may not be for some players. I personally enjoyed it and stopped playing because being in college its hard to pay monthly.
I read every post here... I played EVE for 12 months...
Yes, straight.
I had 3 accounts.
I sold one character (my miner) for like 300 million or so ISK. (you can do that here).
I kept the other two... The second one (which really was my third) is about a year behind my main.. I spec'd him Caldari.. to be my mission runner. I had him up to speed to run level III missions (almost hit level IV but I had to gouge my eyes out first) with full T2 gear. Including missiles (not using T2 missiles for missions, but you get the idea).
He was fully ready to go into PvP if need be.
Do you need 6 months to get a character up to speed? No.
I took a PC, waited a week.. then took him out and killed some ISK farmer mining ICE in secure space. T1 ship.. crappy rockets... and basic warp scrammer hehe. Was in a kestrel I believe.
I stopped playing about 5 months because my corp broke up.. I tried going with another corp in 0.0 space.. but .... I was unable to play/wasn't feeling things.... and I got "let go" understandably.. now I am stuck in their space with my BS's and gear LOL.
I might try again... but even though I disagree with the OP, I also agree.
In EVE, you should not feel restricted, because you are not.
If you spend 2-3 months going in one direction, you will be useful. You can get a T2 fitted Battlecruiser in that time period.
Some helpful tips.
oNever fly anything you dont mind losing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (important, can't you tell?)
oThis game is social. Even the pirates fly in groups.
oNot everything is as it seems. Scams are legal, and just because that T1 frigate is all alone in .2 space, does not mean go in and attack it! (cause it ain't alone).
oAs I said, this game is social, find a corp, learn the ropes more and learn your area.
oYour area will be some part of space you hang out in.. yes, you will see that is true. You will get to know the locals and see what happens here, and know the market... Stay out of Jita LOL.
oGatecamps suck. If you want into low/null sec space... find a corp in those areas...Safety in numbers, and your corp/alliance may have a no fire agreement with them.
oPeople say you can PvP anytime.. that is so true. But PvE FIRST! If you have no money to replace what you have lost, you will quit. Get to level III and IV missions, then go out and have fun PvPing.
I have a character that's 6 months old and he can fly a Vagabond (Heavy Assault ship) with all tier 2 gear. He still needs a month or so to round out some of his key skills to level 5, however I could have accomplished it all in about 4-5 months tops. (I spent quite a bit of time training up Sniper Battleship/hyrbrid guns first)
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
4-6 months is very reasonable to fly a properly fitted HAC.
Still, I take issue with this sentence in your post. "You'll never get to jump in a lot of the high SP ships"?
Why not? Skill training doesn't require you to PVP or even to collect unmanageable amounts of ISK. It just takes time, nothing more. All ships are for sale, and with invention, even if you can't get anyone to sell you a particular T2 ship, you can make it yourself.
There's nothing keeping you from flying most any ship you want (Titans notwithstanding). Yes, getting into capital ships is going to take a long time, and requires you to be active about it, but it's doable, as thousands of players have already shown.
The only thing in EVE keeping you from achieving something you want is your own attitude.
I have a character that's 6 months old and he can fly a Vagabond (Heavy Assault ship) with all tier 2 gear. He still needs a month or so to round out some of his key skills to level 5, however I could have accomplished it all in about 4-5 months tops. (I spent quite a bit of time training up Sniper Battleship/hyrbrid guns first)
I have almost 25 mil SP and can't even use one tech II gun.so much for the never catching up
There is more to using a T2 gun...
Honestly, you are much better off raising the other gunnery skills first then going to T2 weapons as they take a LONG time to get the skill points in. Getting T1 smalls aren't bad, its getting the mediums and heavies that take months to do. But if you get your other skills up, you will be far more effective.
Oh, and in case I missed out on my tips in my above post.
Spend your first month (after the first week of course getting basic skills) on your Learning Skills... Raise your stats, because you will shave months off training skills.
I remember a corp I was in... I was all excited when I got 2 million SPs in my gunnery skills. Some laughed on TS and told me that they had 10 million SPs lol.
Now I have like 6 or 8 million (hadn't logged on yet) in gunnery alone :P And my drones skills are through the roof as well.
Wow, talk about wrong. They added a ton of new ships that are quickly learned by people with relatively low SP. Now they also added a couple of high SP requirement ships also, but that is for those that have already training everything.
With the new Electronic Attack ships even a noob can cause a lot of trouble and run with the big boys. And even without that a person with 14 million SP can easily fly HACs, HICs, Recons, and Intys. All premium PVP ships and that is using all T2 weapons and gear.
And the best satisfaction in the game is not grinding isk, but it is destroying other peoples ships. The beauty of this game is when you kill someones ship it does not respawn, they lose it forever and need to buy another one. So the 15 billion is Isk damage I have caused is worth more to me then if I earned 50 billion isk. And that is with a 14 million SP char (with under 20 losses) so you don't need a 30 million SP to do well. Granted this is my 2nd character so it was built from the ground up to be elite.
I so love this game and living in 0.0 space (empire sucks and is boring as hell)
I keep hearing how many options people have in eve online. I personally dont buy it.
Mining is an option but it reduces you to staring at icons for X hours.
Mission running is an option but once you've done 60 you've done them all.
That leaves PvP - which of course is what the game is all about. PvP is a mixed bag but ultimately the ones making the decisions about where to fight in any decent sized alliance are the people who play 24 hours a day. Alliances are big organizations and unless you're very savy and very inclined you will not be making many of your own decisions.
So yes you can do lots of things but the game still steers you into 1 or 2 different directions. CCP has done nothing to acknowledge that oodles of ppl in NPC corps are trying to carebear. Most expansions are geared towards giving the alliances more tools to fight with, more options for pvp.
See, I CAN open up the map editor in Civilization IV and "play the game" that way if I wanted to. But there is the intended usage of the game and then there is what I actually do with it. I could sit in Empire and play eve without ever leaving too but as soon as you make a decision about what you do in this game you will find your options more limited.
If you want to live in true 00 and actually dock in someones station you're part of an organization that has bigger repsonsibilities, goals etc. Once you decide to do PvP you have to think about what fittings to put on, ship types, types of encounters etc (and good luck finding fights that aren't 'The Blob'). PvP and PvE ship configurations are oft times mutually exclusive.
Indeed, with all the options this game it says it has i find it does a good job pigeon holing characters into 1-3 set paths.
Sorry, I dont buy the 'your options are endless' mantra that comes with Eve. What you choose to do is indeed flexible but as soon as you engage in any content in any game you begin to set limits and how you get there etc.
Thank you for a well presented and balanced message. The OP is absolutely correct.
However, some of us are protesting that Eve is full of mean bullies (and it is) who have enormous advantages (but no, they do not.)
Look, Eve is huge. Generalities like "I always get killed by pirate gatecamps" tells us that you go to pirate systems without understanding the risks.
I have found that the player experience varies a lot depending on where you are. Some systems are loaded with PvPers looking for someone to attack. Going to one of these on a busy day (say Sunday) means there are even more trigger-happy pirates waiting in those systems.
There are maybe a hundred systems where gatecamping makes sense. Eve has maybe 5000 systems. Now, it is true that the gatecampers target the paths from safe to low sec space, because that's where the most value is.
Truism: Predators congregate around the watering holes and the paths to the watering holes in real life.
In Eve, they block the path from safe locations to dangerous ones. Now if you try to go past a gatecamp, you are going to get killed (well, if the campers are any good you should be killed.)
So how do you manage it? "TEAMWORK"
If you want to play SOLO stay away from the traditional paths to low sec space. But why do people want to play solo in a MMORPG? Would you try to solo a dungeon crawl or join up a party with fighters, healers, magic users and a rogue? Well it is the same in Eve. Join a corp and work with people. Dosen't work out? Join another corp!
Eventually you should find a bunch of people you like and who like you. To quote William Wallace (look him up) "If at first you do not succeed, try, try again!" You are only a quitter if you give up.
Anyway, the Eve forums are invaluable for learning the deep secrets of Eve, but being in a good corp should give you an inside track on WHAT to study first.
So, if you like space and space combat there is nothing nearly as good as Eve. But, and this is a critical truth, not everyone has the patience to take the time to learn the less obvious combat techniques.
If you just want to dive into a FPS and kill people, this is not the game for you.
Eve takes dedication and thought. If you do not prepare your ship properly, you will take a lot of damage. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your enemy is the key to surviving most situations.
In PvE the NPC faction has a reliable preference for weapons and ship defenses. In PvP however, human ingenuity means that some Amarr ships might have Caldari weapons, or a Minmatar attacker might be using Gallente guns.
Solo, you might fight someone and die because they did not do what you expected. However, in a group (Fleet in Eve terms) skills start to even out and so you can still win even if an opponent has better fittings or something you did not expect.
My last word: Try a player corporation for a week before giving up on Eve.
Enjoy, and fly safe!
ELITE (e'-leet) Best, outstanding, advanced, exceptional, brightest, above the ordinary, not for the masses. Requiring extrordinary sophistication and advanced skills. ex: "Eve-Online is an elite game."
well... I listed a lot of what you can do in my rather lengthy article. besides missioning and mining:you can build stuff. almost everything in EVE is player made. and this sounds even less important than it is. there are people with over 50 million skillpoints out there who have almost no combat skills and produce tons of things and get filthy rich doing so.
you can ransom people for money.
you can protect people for money.
you can scout for money.
you can explore for yourself and find Hacking or Archaeology sites where you can get blueprints or invention artefacts
and then invent stuff
you can travel around and kill NPCs (ratting)
you can trade goods. you can trade everything and exploit differences in prices in this 5000 solar system world.
you can fly logistics for alliances or transport parts for alliances.
you can steal from players or scam them. (not nice but legal)
you can transport things for other players (be sure you are not scammed) via contracts
and some stuff I probably forgot
all that apart from alliance PvP, missioning and mining
Who said these options were easy? Where did it say everyone should be able to do everything at any time? Should an alliance leader be as simple as logging in and proclaiming, "I AM AN ALLIANCE LEADER!" and then logging off? There's a lot of responsibility that comes with being an alliance leader or diplomat and I think that's excellent, it means there's a lot of depth to that role.
You can BE anything you want, but you can't be everything, that's true. It's the same as life. How many people do you know that are a Firefighter, Doctor, Engineer, and President of a whole damn Country AT THE SAME TIME? So real life limits you to a few set paths too then doesn't it? Sure you can also play a little guitar on the side, so too with EVE as in addition to being a pvp grunt I do a little trading.
I think it's a hell of a lot better than, "You can be a Paladin and have your spells and roles determined for you and then you can collect gear and stuff that is convineintly limited to your class!"