Glad to help. You don't need to worry about me anyway, I'm retired.
One thing I used to tell my new recruits: accomplish what you need to accomplish in the cheapest rig possible. It will force you to learn better tactics and your losses won't hurt as bad (this of course changes as you get wealthier and more experienced). Also, never make the mistake of rushing to train the bare minimum skills to get you in a new ship WITHOUT TRAINING PROPER SUPPORT SKILLS. If you go out and fly your new battleship without having the right tanking/ gunnery/ drone/ missle/ powergrid/ CPU skills you are gonna learn a very expensive lesson very quickly.
Anyway, good luck and have fun in Eve. I sure did.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
We are a small (10-15 active) primarily mining corp. We can field a fleet of about 7-8 PvP equipped T1/T2 equipment cruiser, T2 frigate, etc fleet. We've given and gotten on the war front over the past four months, however, this war (now in its second week) has been demoralizing. Given an alt of one of the characters fed them a list of our active mission and mining non-pvp people we have been hit marginally hard. Our ship loss ISK over the 6 kills we've received have only been about 100 million, however, they have refused to negotiate on pods, and given very few of us have jump clones, the implant cost has been easily three times the ship loss.
Naturally our coordinated response was as follows:
2. Scatter our fleet's main staging points a minimum of 15-20 jumps from our home system. Of course this has led to an additional issue, but more on that later.
3. Extortion fee, while low, isn't an option at this point primarily because we lack trust in their intentions of a payoff. Since they've refused to negotiate on pods, the money is better spent on a mercenary corp.
4. We're now negotiating our second mercenary corp. The first one became unreliable, while being used to supplement an attack fleet they fed positions and joined the combined fleet against us. Our hope is the second, larger mercenary corp will bring some results to the table.
5. We've put out the feelers on joining an alliance in order to make it less interesting to declare an extortion war on us. However, this will take time and considering the corp primarily on our tails is very experienced (3+ years on 9 of 11 active pilots) it is a major commitment of resources for an alliance.
However, by moving a large portion of our mining fleet into another extortion corp's territory we've now acquired a second non-mutual war against a less effecient bully, but another drain on resources nonetheless.
But, that's where it stands today, we can generate revenue fine, but somewhat diminished for the past few weeks. We're not afraid to lose ships, and having more jump clone users is our highest priority, but that's in the future, for now our goal is to keep our heads low and not attract a third bully corp.
Natausch, sounds like you've got a good system and a group of well-organized people. While these assailants undoubtedly are individually tougher then you are in PVP, you're limiting your exposure and cutting your losses.
The mercenary group that betrayed you should IMO be named and shamed, you have no reason to protect them after they've stabbed you in the back like that. Mercenaries work on their own reputations, and having a bad rep can mean no or less contracts for them in the future.
Other pointers:
You're looking at joining an alliance, that's fine and well because it both gives you friends and makes wars against you more expensive. It may not deter them completely (and may even give them more targets to attack).
You cannot win a war on defensive. These people will hunt you as long as they can make more by killing you then they lose by keeping up the war. If you cannot make their losses start mounting, they will hound you. You need to attack, to demoralize them.
Do not fit t2 ships for pvp unless you have to. With 15 ppl (everyone can afford a t1-fitted frigate) you can shut these folks down. Use Goon tactics, swarm them over if you get the chance. Don't fight fair, fight dirty. Make them take the losses.
This may all be old news to you, but you have shown you have organization to deal with these folk. With that organization, you can fight them, despite their advantages in sp and heavier ships. Remember: Frigs are cheap, battleships expensive. Losing 10 frigs to take down one bs means you win in the exchange, heavily.
EDIT: Also, impress on your members to cut down on implants when under a war. Jump clones for clean jumps is a good thing, but popping in new implant sets after being podded is not. Losing some sp or mining maximum from not having those implants is less important then giving your opponents no opportunity to pick up multimillion-isk implants and inflicting painful losses to you.
4. We're now negotiating our second mercenary corp. The first one became unreliable, while being used to supplement an attack fleet they fed positions and joined the combined fleet against us. Our hope is the second, larger mercenary corp will bring some results to the table.
you have to name them! post their name on the boards, call them out!
those guys are pirates disguised as mercenaries
this behavior is unacceptable
and I would seriously recommend changing your attitude towards them. negotiate a peace, appear pliable and stupid, try to find out about them what you can, then break every contract you made with them and hit them hard!
lie, cheat and kill.
if they would like a powerful opponent, they would not have chosen your mining corp. that can only mean they are weak and they know it. keep that in mind. they are unprepared for true resistance.
if they don't play fair, you should never do it. do not bow down. keep the grudge.
4. We're now negotiating our second mercenary corp. The first one became unreliable, while being used to supplement an attack fleet they fed positions and joined the combined fleet against us. Our hope is the second, larger mercenary corp will bring some results to the table.
you have to name them! post their name on the boards, call them out!
those guys are pirates disguised as mercenaries
this behavior is unacceptable
and I would seriously recommend changing your attitude towards them. negotiate a peace, appear pliable and stupid, try to find out about them what you can, then break every contract you made with them and hit them hard!
lie, cheat and kill.
if they would like a powerful opponent, they would not have chosen your mining corp. that can only mean they are weak and they know it. keep that in mind. they are unprepared for true resistance.
if they don't play fair, you should never do it. do not bow down. keep the grudge.
that is my recommendation.
I just become more interested about EVEs politics then i ever have been before.
Comments
Glad to help. You don't need to worry about me anyway, I'm retired.
One thing I used to tell my new recruits: accomplish what you need to accomplish in the cheapest rig possible. It will force you to learn better tactics and your losses won't hurt as bad (this of course changes as you get wealthier and more experienced). Also, never make the mistake of rushing to train the bare minimum skills to get you in a new ship WITHOUT TRAINING PROPER SUPPORT SKILLS. If you go out and fly your new battleship without having the right tanking/ gunnery/ drone/ missle/ powergrid/ CPU skills you are gonna learn a very expensive lesson very quickly.
Anyway, good luck and have fun in Eve. I sure did.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Thanks for this post it good and I love it. It adress alot of the "bs" about eve online.
I couldnt write it better my self.
Free 14Days EVE-Online "Trials & Guides" EVE-O Skills Sheet
thank you!
We are a small (10-15 active) primarily mining corp. We can field a fleet of about 7-8 PvP equipped T1/T2 equipment cruiser, T2 frigate, etc fleet. We've given and gotten on the war front over the past four months, however, this war (now in its second week) has been demoralizing. Given an alt of one of the characters fed them a list of our active mission and mining non-pvp people we have been hit marginally hard. Our ship loss ISK over the 6 kills we've received have only been about 100 million, however, they have refused to negotiate on pods, and given very few of us have jump clones, the implant cost has been easily three times the ship loss.
Naturally our coordinated response was as follows:
1. Cancel regularly scheduled mining ops - our primary source of revenue
2. Scatter our fleet's main staging points a minimum of 15-20 jumps from our home system. Of course this has led to an additional issue, but more on that later.
3. Extortion fee, while low, isn't an option at this point primarily because we lack trust in their intentions of a payoff. Since they've refused to negotiate on pods, the money is better spent on a mercenary corp.
4. We're now negotiating our second mercenary corp. The first one became unreliable, while being used to supplement an attack fleet they fed positions and joined the combined fleet against us. Our hope is the second, larger mercenary corp will bring some results to the table.
5. We've put out the feelers on joining an alliance in order to make it less interesting to declare an extortion war on us. However, this will take time and considering the corp primarily on our tails is very experienced (3+ years on 9 of 11 active pilots) it is a major commitment of resources for an alliance.
However, by moving a large portion of our mining fleet into another extortion corp's territory we've now acquired a second non-mutual war against a less effecient bully, but another drain on resources nonetheless.
But, that's where it stands today, we can generate revenue fine, but somewhat diminished for the past few weeks. We're not afraid to lose ships, and having more jump clone users is our highest priority, but that's in the future, for now our goal is to keep our heads low and not attract a third bully corp.
Natausch, sounds like you've got a good system and a group of well-organized people. While these assailants undoubtedly are individually tougher then you are in PVP, you're limiting your exposure and cutting your losses.
The mercenary group that betrayed you should IMO be named and shamed, you have no reason to protect them after they've stabbed you in the back like that. Mercenaries work on their own reputations, and having a bad rep can mean no or less contracts for them in the future.
Other pointers:
You're looking at joining an alliance, that's fine and well because it both gives you friends and makes wars against you more expensive. It may not deter them completely (and may even give them more targets to attack).
You cannot win a war on defensive. These people will hunt you as long as they can make more by killing you then they lose by keeping up the war. If you cannot make their losses start mounting, they will hound you. You need to attack, to demoralize them.
Do not fit t2 ships for pvp unless you have to. With 15 ppl (everyone can afford a t1-fitted frigate) you can shut these folks down. Use Goon tactics, swarm them over if you get the chance. Don't fight fair, fight dirty. Make them take the losses.
This may all be old news to you, but you have shown you have organization to deal with these folk. With that organization, you can fight them, despite their advantages in sp and heavier ships. Remember: Frigs are cheap, battleships expensive. Losing 10 frigs to take down one bs means you win in the exchange, heavily.
EDIT: Also, impress on your members to cut down on implants when under a war. Jump clones for clean jumps is a good thing, but popping in new implant sets after being podded is not. Losing some sp or mining maximum from not having those implants is less important then giving your opponents no opportunity to pick up multimillion-isk implants and inflicting painful losses to you.
you have to name them! post their name on the boards, call them out!
those guys are pirates disguised as mercenaries
this behavior is unacceptable
and I would seriously recommend changing your attitude towards them. negotiate a peace, appear pliable and stupid, try to find out about them what you can, then break every contract you made with them and hit them hard!
lie, cheat and kill.
if they would like a powerful opponent, they would not have chosen your mining corp. that can only mean they are weak and they know it. keep that in mind. they are unprepared for true resistance.
if they don't play fair, you should never do it. do not bow down. keep the grudge.
that is my recommendation.
you have to name them! post their name on the boards, call them out!
those guys are pirates disguised as mercenaries
this behavior is unacceptable
and I would seriously recommend changing your attitude towards them. negotiate a peace, appear pliable and stupid, try to find out about them what you can, then break every contract you made with them and hit them hard!
lie, cheat and kill.
if they would like a powerful opponent, they would not have chosen your mining corp. that can only mean they are weak and they know it. keep that in mind. they are unprepared for true resistance.
if they don't play fair, you should never do it. do not bow down. keep the grudge.
that is my recommendation.
I just become more interested about EVEs politics then i ever have been before.