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Isn't WAR just a big WOW BG?
altairzq
Member Posts: 3,811
I know posting this here is asking for flames, but I really intend to buy the game and I'm honestly worried about this, so I'd like to be proved wrong.
BTW I asked the same question at the only-war general forum (with same nick, you can go and check) and in the end it wasn't clear that WAR ¬= Big WOW BG.
Specially because of the non existant death penalty that I'm afraid will contribute to a disorganized battle where everybody is dying, respawning, running to the front, dying, respawning... ad eternum and without a clue about what is going on. 
Comments
Yes you are extremly right,WAR is a big WoW BG,soo stay away from WAR and play WoW,tell your friends to do the same.
Please,I beg you do not play WAR ... dont ruin my gaming experience with your idiotic logic please!!!!
*Makes for the flame shelter*
Good luck
So I got a point?
Well, calling WAR just a "big WoW bg" is not exactly flattering. The more appropriate term for it is "Open World pvp." The fact is, WoW is just not capable of open world pvp. Their net code is not up to par. I remember in the early days of WoW, we used to always get into some fun open world pvp. But it would always crash the servers. Which is why Blizzard basically siphoned away the world pvp into their "treadmill-like" BGs.
More or less.
If you value PvE gameplays, you are prolly better to avoid WAR completely.
If you value PvP or even RvR...the game will offer much that WoW isn't.
They are many variant of PvP server rules...
If only they could offer 1 real care bear grouper PvE server...only 1. Require little work...and would grant them many different players that won't play their game otherwise...but this argument is falling on deaf ears. They figure that if no MMO offer a good PvE-grouping experience, we will settle for something else...but something else doesn't have to be a MMO, or a video game to even start with. I find it surprising that peoples who abandon other MMOs disappointed, wouldn't show more understanding toward peoples who neither want to raid nor PvP.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
OP obviously never played DAOC so deserves an answer. While it might appear that dying in DAOC (or WAR) has no consequence, they normally design the game so that you lose anywhere from 10-20 minutes of time before you can rejoin the fight.
The real prize in DAOC is realm points. (will be true for WAR as well) You earn them for killing the enemy (or healing your side) and the more you earn, (and the more quickly you earn them) the sooner you can spend them on cool new super powers. (that may benefit either PVE or PVP)
Every minute you are out of the action is another minute you aren't earning any realm points. (WAR will probably rename them). Not earning realm points is bad, so people will work very hard to maximize the rate that they earn them.
Regular teams will form where player perfect working together. In DAOC there were single 8 man groups that could decimate 2 or 3 times that numbers before dying. Strategies were developed to take and hold Keeps that let one side rack up enormous realm point gains, (like maybe 75k in one night, vs 4 or 5 K for the average zerging player)
While many folks will run around in a disorganized zerg, there will be many who figure out strategies to perfect their craft.
Regardless of skill level, everyone will try hard to survive and stay in the action as much as they can. They'll make sure rezzer's are available, work hard not to die needlessly, and it will be far more rewarding in the end than you've ever experienced in a WOW battleground.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think your hoping too much that warhammer will be daoc's big brother especially now EA have their hands on it and their people on the team now.
airstrike, dont ruin our gaming experience with your idiotic logic please!!!!
I think your hoping too much that warhammer will be daoc's big brother especially now EA have their hands on it and their people on the team now.
Your point is well taken. As I'm not in beta I have no idea whether WAR really will be the spiritual successor to DAOC, or fall prey to the WOWification that so many games seem to suffer from these days. My hope is for the former.
DAOC's primary failure was the result of Mythic looking at the success of EQ and its ability to draw the PVE crowd to it. They decided to create the TOA expansion which introduced a strong, must do PVE raiding environment to a player base that never asked for it.
They failed to draw any significant new PVE players, and drove off a large portion of their existing player base. Let's just say SOE wasn't the first company to NGE an existing game in the hopes of broadening their sub base.
Maybe I'm being too much of an optimist. But then again I believe in faeries, angels, aliens and that Darkfall will one day be released and be a good game. (ok, that last one was too far out, but the first 3 still stand)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
More or less.
If you value PvE gameplays, you are prolly better to avoid WAR completely.
If you value PvP or even RvR...the game will offer much that WoW isn't.
They are many variant of PvP server rules...
If only they could offer 1 real care bear grouper PvE server...only 1. Require little work...and would grant them many different players that won't play their game otherwise...but this argument is falling on deaf ears. They figure that if no MMO offer a good PvE-grouping experience, we will settle for something else...but something else doesn't have to be a MMO, or a video game to even start with. I find it surprising that peoples who abandon other MMOs disappointed, wouldn't show more understanding toward peoples who neither want to raid nor PvP.
You can play the entire game PvE and never once PvP to end game. You can PvP to End game and never PvE. You can mixture of both to end game. WAR's regular server offers more variance in play than any other game's normal server. Everything you do in PvE benefits your realm. Everything you do in RVR (group PvP since 1vs1 will end up in you dead in WAR) benefits your realm. If you make one server completely PvE you can't even enjoy End Game. End game is essentially the right to tear down someone's city and pillage it to the ground until they're able to get it back. If you watched the recent sets of pod cast even the City Siege contains PvE elements such as Public Quests.
I don't see where your coming from maybe i'm just not understanding what language your trying to speak. WAR is PvE friendly with its core based around RvR. Thats not something done everyday. If there ever was a game that offers something for everyone then thats WAR. The only people that might not feel catered to in WAR are the hardcore Raiders & HardCore Gankers.
WAR's done alot to make PvE a decent percentage of the game, unless i'm misunderstanding your intent the point of your post is pretty mute.
OP...WAR is not in danger of being a giant WoW battleground. WoW BG's are a side game. They don't benefit your race, they don't benefit your 'realm' they dont' do anything except offer a grind to keep people busy & give people Personal Gain instead of Realm game (WAR is essentially a Realm Game, Realm pride!). WAR's on the other hand an entire race's capitol relies on the battlefield objectives, open rvr, & pve. If Your race dominates in all three areas you gain 'control' over that teir. Once you get up to gaining control of Tier 4 you get to assault someone's capitol city, you literally evict them they can't even spawn there.
WAR has open pvp areas (with keeps) & Scenarios (yes somewhat like WoW's BG's except beating the other team actually gains your entire race realm points that go towards control of the Tier the battleground is located in). WAR also has areas that are restricted to PvE but you can flag yourself or Enemies if they enter your PvE zone become flagged.
Just to reiterate...WoW's BGs are pointless FRAG / Grind / Loot Fiestas for a single person's gain primarily its pointless to enjoy any of it until end game. WAR's Open & Scenario RvR areas are massive battles to help determine the ownership over an entire tier starting at level 1.
They've never been real clear on what the actual death downtime is going to be like. Nothing is set in stone I figure like with WoW it'll change several times until they find something they and the testers are happy with. (WoW changed how death works several times before they ever went gold).
Warhammer is a game about WAR, expect WAR to be everywhere
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I think your hoping too much that warhammer will be daoc's big brother especially now EA have their hands on it and their people on the team now.
It's true I have never played DAOC, and what you say is very neat, but if I understood it well, there won't take that much to rejoin the battle.The idea I got from what I have read is that it will be like seconds, maybe one minute, before you are back in action, which makes sense giving the community of players we have now.
Is there a podcast explaining this?
Kyleran, thanks for your thoughts on the matter its appreciated. I hope that for the fans sake the game will live up to expectations and include the neat things you talk about that happened in Daoc.
The problem with MMO's today is that all people can do is compare elements of gameplay to WoW. The key malfunction with that logic is that you can't even think outside of what you got in WoW.
Asking questions in comparison to WoW shows that you don't have the mental ability to think outside that realm.
RvR is not a BG. It is not like a BG. It is not similar to a BG. There are tons of videos that explain RvR. Go to youtube and search for the topic.
WoWheads just can't get it. Stop trying to filter games through WoW's gameplay.
For your information I started playing EQ in it's first year, until PoP. Yes I have played WOW too, but you know, so many people have, it's good to know how WAR is different from it, because a lot of gamers want something different, me included.
When your towns burning and your wife (RL player) is geting raped over and over again.
You will know Meaningfull PvP combat.
Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, I think without ANY kind of death penalty, it's going to lose a lot of meaning. My main gripe with WoW PVP was that. Okay, I died- but I respawn and I just throw myself into the enemy again, hoping to do a little more damage. Oh, I died again. Well I'll just respawn and throw myself at them harder. Repeat ad nauseum.
the official MMORPG.com deadhead
Seriously though, I think without ANY kind of death penalty, it's going to lose a lot of meaning. My main gripe with WoW PVP was that. Okay, I died- but I respawn and I just throw myself into the enemy again, hoping to do a little more damage. Oh, I died again. Well I'll just respawn and throw myself at them harder. Repeat ad nauseum.
I agree. Sure, on the surface, there's less hassle without a death penalty. But it indirectly destroys the fun factor since the meaning of death is not there and you just keep throwing yourself at the enemy over and over again. There shouldn't be a very harsh penalty, but there needs to be something way harsher than what WoW has. Also, I think people's gold and belongings should be at stake (with some sort of insurance system for those who don't want to take risks.. ie, pve) when defending a city. But that's for another debate.
Actually there should be spots with NO pvp going on whatsoever. I'm pretty sure in the videos it talks about PVE areas in each of the tiers which provide a safe and relaxing pve experience.
So in short: No, WAR is not a big "WoW"-style BG.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
It`s sad that every MMo is compared to WoW but at first glance WAR looks like WoW because of the character models and the similarities stop here.BG in WoW is a game inside the game where RvR in War is the GAME.
OP,do you rememeber the time when we read in world channel "Cross road is under attack" every single player who was in the surroundings ran to defend it because that place meant something to the horde...The whole WAR concept is like that...you are fighting for your realm and the bigcake(endgame) will be to take the capital city and slay or take as prisoner an important npc.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
To make it clearer, will WAR battles be like WOW BG's battles?
As far as I interpreted what's said of the game correctly, the death penalty (and other downtimes) are going to be easy. So that you won't have to wait to play, you won't have to do any grind to play, or anything other.
But, I think they are implementing a penalty for loosing (with enough losses the area gets conquered), and will that way make a more fun penalty. So that it hurts when you lose, not necessarily when you die.
To make it clearer, will WAR battles be like WOW BG's battles?
Most of your WAR battles will be like DAoC battles.
You enter the battle, live or die.
If you die I am sure you return to the entrance/keep and proceed to head back to the battle.
Your penalty will be a long run back to the fray. There may be a short debuff like DAoC, no idea.
Alot of the RvR videos we all see are scenarios, and those are similar to WoW.
With capturable points, and an overall point score that determines the victor.
These areas will feel like WoW PvP, because your respawn point will be closer to the combat objectives.
Open area PvP is much different and WoW does not have this.
Capturable keeps, Siege weapons, NPCs guarding keeps, Guild banners on the keeps.
Actually, that's a fair question, but I might add that you are comparing WAR to WoW -- and this should not be done ... unless, of course, you have only played WoW and have nothing else to compare it to.
I would compare WAR to -- surprise! -- Mythic's first RvR game, Dark Age of Camelot.
There was a short rez sickness for a death penalty, some amount of item wear and if you didn't get a rez, you would have to run back to the battle, which was not always that easy.
As far as knowing what is going on, this problem was lessened in DAoC by use of the Frontier chat channel. There was usually a lot of shouting and cussing (LOL!) and the usual "Oh frak, I died!" but overall it provided some information regarding the battle fronts.
Also, if you are in a good RvR-oriented guild, you can just use Guild Chat for info. Likewise, you may just want to use Group Chat.
Btw, there is a word used for those players who run a disorganized battle.
We call them "the losers."
And, the battles are not "meaningless" due to a lack of a harsh death penalty.
All the battles in all the tiers have an effect on the final tier, which can unlock the ability to attack an enemy capital, and if an enemy capital is conquered it will suffer an infra-structure degradation and will afford the victors an opportunity to enter high-level (uberloot-ish) PvE dungeons.
The focus of RvR -- unlike the greedy, solo focus of WoW PvP -- is REALM-WIDE benefits or losses.
Your individual deaths may not mean much to you personally, but the overall goal of realm defense will be extremely important.
This is something WoWers never have had to deal with ... or even understand.
~ Ancient Membership ~
This is my source of information, from the editorials in Only-WAR, finally found it:
Death and Fate Points
Death in Warhammer Online will take place on very generous terms. There will be no "resurrection sickness." Players will not lose equipment or items when they die. The only penalty on death will be a time delay in getting back to the game, in order to keep people from employing zerg tactics.
According to reports (from scenarios battles), when your character dies a box will pop up on your UI; you will click the box to respawn five seconds later back at the starting point of the scenario, or wait and automatically respawn after a delay of approximately 45 seconds. It has been suggested that, if there is no penalty for death beyond time delay, players may choose to 'die to heal'. In practice, reports tell us that characters regenerate health and action points so fast that such tactics are simply unnecessary - characters are healthy, on their own and without potions in very little time.
How respawns (and respawn locations) will be handled outside of scenarios isn't known at this time.
So we have 45 seconds, plus the run to the front. I don't think they will make you run for anything longer than a very few minutes, so my guess is that in 3-5 minutes you will be back in action.
And have you noticed what it says about chars regenerating so fast? Not a good thing.
This information is a bit old, so maybe has been changed, but how things are, I'm afraid that if they have been, it will be for less penalty, not for more.
edit, link: www.only-war.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php