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Anti-Massive Multiplayer = The Future
Carufin
Member Posts: 92
A brief history of Time, er...MMORPG.
Everquest 1 = 100+ man raids
That ultimately didn't pan out, and successive games have restricted the number of people allowed into raids. First, down to 40 man raids. Then down to 25 man raids. Then just allowing a few 25 man raids and mostly 10 man raids. Et Cetera.
Why? Because the age of Geek meets 100 other Geeks has ended. The Gamespace now encompasses actual normal people who don't even know how to format a floppy disk, they just want to do something together besides watch reruns of "Lost" until the new season. And they both have gaming rigs.
Imagine a fully scaleable game, that adjusts properly for level, such as Oblivion 4. Imagine that scaleable engine easily accomodating two players and scaling just fine. Imagine you and your buddy or you and your wife spending that period between seasons of "Lost" questing side-by-side to help Martin sacrifice himself for the good of all.
What's the worst part of every known MMORPG? Well, let's face it guys, it's all those other losers named "Huge Johnson", "Licka Mygina", "Pwns Joo", and the like. The guys who you are forced to get to know much better than you ever wanted to if you ever hope to see the last 50% of the game.
Here's a clue, game developers, regular guys (the one's who make more than $5,000 a year by the way) really don't want to spend much time with "Teabags Joo".
It's way past time for the Micro Multiplayer Game. Games that are solid and support about two to four players total with a self-operated server, or peer-to-peer. Games where the 2 to 4 players aren't involved in slaughtering each other, but work together as in an MMORPG, but without all the losers.
The game house that makes that game is the next guy to get really rich.
Comments
Soo..you're complaining about people with names that you dont like...
See -> Diablo II
Seriously? I'll look into it. Thanks.
Are you looking for a game like Neverwinter Nights or what? You're not making any sense.
I can't imagine any way to be more clear. Hello.
What part of absolutely pristine English are you failing to comprehend? Please elaborate on the areas that you are having "difficulty" understanding lol....
I'm not really sure what you're saying either.
Oh please. I guess I've stumbled into the reason that we only have 25 man raid geek-meets-geek games.
Hey game developers, you see the issue here? How will you ever mainstream your games when so many of your current subscribers don't even comprehend written English?
Those of us who do, which equals the vast majority of people with lots of money to spend on multiple monthly subscriptions (we're probably already paying for the games of the likes of these dorks) would really love a game we could play with other adults.
A game with the richness of Oblivion, that didn't force us to hang out with moronic losers who can't even comprehend written English in order to experience all the content.
The game house that makes that game gets rich.
Althought you are mostly right, you scare the minority of players who enjoy it otherwise and who, obviously are the majority on online websites.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They are right, you just describel Neverwinter Nights and similar games. Besides insulting a lot of people.
Neverwinter Nights is cooperative multiplayer? What are the similar games?
And who have I insulted, guys named "Pwns Joo"? Guys like that deserve to be insulted, don't they?
I wasn't that impressed with NWN actually, but I'll look into it as a multiplayer solution. I'm waiting for your list of "similar" games to try out that aren't based on pen-and-pencil D&D crap.
Well if you don't like MMO's then don't play them problem solved.
Interesting post. You see the problem here is that I need "pwn joo" and "Licka Mygina" to have an active economy. While games like Wow (home of the pwn joo) do not really have an economy it is one of the only things that truly interests me about MMORPG's.
I do not want to group with these people or interact with them in any form outside of the economy aspect of a game. However, I do understand that they will always be there.
In my opinion you are more or less looking for a single player game that has a co-op multiplayer option. I agree that would be a good alternative to the current trend in MMORPG's. I know that the 360 has a few games like that but it is pretty slim pickings on the PC side.
Why would you need an economy any different than that in Oblivion, were you playing with your wife, or a small handful of friends?
So you could sell each other stuff like an Amway salesman?
Economy has no relevance outside of MMORPG. If you're not in a game with 2,000 utter losers, that is designed so that you have to be associated with them, and as such you have to buy and sell with them, there is no significance to "economy".
The game "economy" is an artifact of MMORPG. It's one of the methods they use to enforce the "socializing" requirement. It's part of the tyranny that makes normal people have to associate with abject losers in order to enjoy the full content of the game they pay a monthly fee for.
There is no future in that.
Normal people don't go to the homes of total cretins to watch "Lost" because it is mandated that it takes 40 people for the television to turn on.
I still don't know what he's saying.
There are remedial courses available in every major city for English. Mostly at local community colleges.
They cater mostly to foreign language people who are still learning English, but they will take almost anyone who can pay the tuition. You can even get a grant. Look into it.
You see for me a player run economy is enjoyable. It becomes more of a virtual world rather than just a game. Much like in any real life business the owner usually cares very little about what type of customer he is making his money from. If I am a crafter and "pwn joo" wants to spend his gold on something I have created more power to him. I may not like the guy at all but his gold is just as good as anyone else's.
Everyone has different tastes in what they enjoy. For me it is a player run economy. For you it is more of a single player game with a co-op multiplayer. Does this make me wrong? I don't believe so. No more than it makes you wrong. We can not pick and choose the community of a game. All you can try and do is find a game that you enjoy and hope that game will attract people of similar interests.
It's actually been done several times. It's currently being done, but mostly in console shooter / beat 'em ups like Gears of War, Crackdown, Army of Two, Ghost Recon / Rainbow Six, and every Halo game have had two to four player split screen and network co-op modes.
For RPGs, you have Diablo (1&2), Baldur's Gate (including the Dark Alliance games on the consoles), Champions of Norath, Phantasy Star Online / Universe, Hellgate: London (it isn't an MMO so it qualifies), the Monster Hunter series, Neverwinter Nights, and Guild Wars even though It falls in between an MORPG and an MMORPG.
The problem here is the fact that people burn through content way too fast. In a dedicated weekend, I can bring a 40 hour game down. In sessions of 30 minutes to an hour and a half, I can bring down most single player action games in a week or two. Just like with MMOs, once you've "been there and done that" you're stuck with nothing to do but find another game.
Sure, you can have randomized content (Diablo, Champions of Norath), but that just feels.... random... You could also have user made content (Dungeon Maker, Neverwinter Nights), but 90% of user made stuff is going to be crap and only 10% of the user base, if that, is actually going to make content. Finally you could just do episodic releases (none as of yet), but ultimately the players will get through it faster than you could ever hope to produce it.
What's needed is a faster content creation pipeline, some kind of quality assurance on user made content, some kind of algorithmic content creation that can also generate environmental puzzles, or a combination of all of the above. I just don't see that happenin'.
I've advocated much the same solution over the years but, for all the advantages, the problem of content is still there.
There are remedial courses available in every major city for English. Mostly at local community colleges.
They cater mostly to foreign language people who are still learning English, but they will take almost anyone who can pay the tuition. You can even get a grant. Look into it.
I have more than a passable understanding of English and I have no idea what you're getting at. If you want to play cooperatively with one or two people then go get one of the many games that does that and leave people who like mmorpgs alone. It would be a more productive use of your time than coming to a website devoted to mmorpgs and insulting the people here.
Jimmy_Scythe, thanks for the list of potential "me and my wife" games, preciate it.
You're totally right about the content thing, and I'm happy to burn through a game and buy the next one, that's no problem.
A good sandbox game like Oblivion though, I spent a hundred hours per character there though just because it was still fun. But it was totally single player.
A game like WoW, which isn't so bad, took me months to "win". But in the end there was no way I could experience all the content without having to personally associate with, and introduce my wife to, some of the absolute scum of society if I had any hope of seeing the depths of Karazan, let alone anything further up the tree.
I mean let's face it, the majority of MMORPG guys in the big guilds are retrograde losers. Absolute dregs of society, and the requirements of such games seem to cater precisely to that sort. Whether they mean to or not.
I'd like to see some games of the depth and breadth of Oblivion or WoW that just a handful of people on a LAN or peer-to-peer could enjoy. Then you'd have a lot more of actual, employed, non drug-addicted, non welfare dropout, and thus interesting people involved in.
I read your first post, and now this. Ask yourself this: "Do I really understand what is MMORPG, and do I really want to play MMORPG?" The answer to that is no, you don't. You want a game with smaller crowd, there are games like that. MMORPG isn't one of them. As for MMORPG going mainstream, the genre ISN'T mainstream at all when compare to all games. So stop playing MMORPG if you don't like the way they are designing the contents.
As for economy system in MMORPG, it is needed since it gave players a choice in different playstyle. So if you don't like it, or don't think there is a future in that, that's your opinion, and yours alone.
You don't want to associate with people you don't like, then don't. No one is forcing you to play MMORPG and/or to socialize with them.
So either way, you can just stop playing MMORPG until some developers to pick that vision up and run with it.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Um, Forcan, duh.
Anything associated with any of my points you wanted to address, or is stating the absolutely obvious as if it were wise more your style?
I've been playing "mmorpg" since before you were born, most likely. I don't play them anymore, for the reasons stated.
I'm opining about MMORPG in a forum designed for opining about MMORPG. Address the points, or go away.
On some of your points I couldn't agree more and time to bring in an old argument. The board games were always 2-6 players from what I understood. There were also "Choose your own adventure" books that were solo.
My family member and I are tired of having to a larger group in game. We're in a group as there are two of us. Well technically a duo but still a group and not solo. We should be able to get things done.
We're tired of having to kiss up to people we don't like. Helping them so maybe they'll give in a good word and get us in a good guild. Most of the time the requestor for help ends up abusing the help or the guild becomes hungry with power.
It's the peeps with names like "Hairy Sack" that get ahead in these games. People with thoughtful names seem to get drifted to the outside. (No joke on that name btw just look at the Blackbeard server on Potbs)
The next game that gets the "small group mentality" correct and has a setting I like at least is the one that sells me for the duration.
Edit: Servers should remain on the company's end and should allow a massive amount of players in it's world. I just want the small grouping to reign supreme.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Am I to understand from reading this that you are unfamiliar with Diablo II and NWN?
The only thing I don't understand here is why you're such a bloody pecker.1) Multiplayer RPGs such as Diablo, NWN and the sort have been around for a long time, longer than MMOs I believe. Hence, stop talking about them like they're some great vision of the future only you can see. It would seem that you haven't been playing games for that long after all.
2) This isn't "pristine english", you're toilet doesn't smell like a rose garden I'm guessing.
3) If you're not playing MMO's anymore, then look for a new game on a website that isn't dedicated to MMOs. Go to 1up, IGN, Actiontrip, Gamespy, etc there's dozens of them. Why not even start with google?
4) How, exactly do you expect Forcan to "Address the points" if all you really said way 'I don't like the MMO setup because you will inevitably run into jerks. I want to play a regular, online RPG in which you connect directly with your friends.'?
5) FInd a better example than Oblivion, please, just for my sake. That game was just a dumbed down version of it's predecessor with better AI and Stealth.
6) Unless you're going to stop being an ass, and maybe clarifying your point when someone doesn't understand it, instead of mocking them and pretending you piss excellence, then I suggest you stick to places with minimal human interaction and work your way up to social pariah like the rest of us.
But what you are stating and asking for isn't MMORPG, but rather a genre that isn't being clearly defined. So what does it have to do with MMORPG (and since this forum is for MMORPG, isn't it not the right place for you to stating such?)
I get your point, and that I respect your idea as a valid one, but that doesn't give you rights to say what MMORPG is or isn't. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. But when you openly stating what you "think" doesn't work for you in MMORPG (yet your focus is more on this undefined genre which you are looking for), and think that it is the majority (it might be true, but no way to prove it either way). So what's the point of making that point on a site that is focus on MMORPG and not the undefined genre of which you wanted?
As for your point? what point?
You mentioned your desire for a game design for small crowd where can be played over LAN and Peer-to Peer network, I get it. I don't really think it is a bad idea either way, but this isn't related to MMORPG (by definition) I don't agree with your view that the "age of geek meets 100 other geeks has ended." There are too many types of gamers out there to have detailed game genre listing for, and for gamers such as yourself, there isn't a clearly defined genre right now (at least I don't see it fitting your description).
You mention your experience with players with stupid names. So what if a player name a character in such fashion? That doesn't make them "losers". Immature? yes, Loser? no.
So all your post can be condense into the following:
I want game developers to focus on designing games for small crowds over LAN / Peer-to-Peer networks.
I say I do in some way agree, but everything else you've stated isn't about that idea, but about your dislike over MMORPG... so it's opinion, which I don't care to get into argument with.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)