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Permadeth? Are you kidding me!?
Narian89
Member Posts: 22
Why are a lot of people now posting about wanting permadeath in MMO's? Do you people realize how stupid that would be!? In World of Warcraft, people die ALL the time. In a permadeath game, it would have to be designed in a way that it is really hard to die, unlike World of Warcraft, or it wouldn't work at all. Does anybody realize how lame this would be? What a boring game! Blizzard even made an april fool's about a permadeath in the new race "the wisp". That's because that's all permadeath is, a BIG JOKE!
Comments
Only if you're using the current one dimensional DPS model.
Because there are other people in this world who play something else other than WoW. Just because it may not be a good thing in WoW does not mean it will not work in other MMOs. It works well in DDO as there is another thread in this section and that guild has been going 2yrs strong.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
{ Mod Edit }
OP, what was your point?
YOu know, frankly there's a lot of players (myself included) that think the whole "people dying ALL the time" as you say...is stupid. Hell, it becomes a tactic even...to die for whatever reason. it's not that hard to "not die" in World of Warcraft, it just would take people actually trying not to...you know, not rushing, not using ridiculous methods, using strategy...the things many of us found fairly lacking in WoW and why we don't play it. I agree, the reality is the "mass pop" of MMOs don't want it, but the "mass pop" of MMOs play a game that I found god awful. Not that it's god awful for everyone, but it certainly was for me. In other words, quit trying to dictate what devs attempt to accomadate because you simply don't understand it. No one will force you to leave WoW and play a game with more hardcore rules, but please don't attempt to make the softcore rules of games like WoW universal...because not everyone wants them.
Sadly, it's these kinds of people that make decent developers turn their critical thinking off and give what they want: a big red button that when pushed gives them candy, pretty light shows, and cool sounds. They're not into really thinking thus developers of games stop developing games and start producing ponzi schemes aka MMOs.
-- Brede
hehe, Perma-Death would be an OPTION on some different server. Once your guild dies off or something, just move to regular servers, its just there for another play option
.
Also, it wouldn't really work for a full-time thing on level-based MMOs. They had one server in EQ for ~month, the highest levels got rewards on their main server characters (also got the characters that one transfered over). Just never would work full-time cause you will be able to just farm the competition once the higher levels got situated (level-based MMOs only).
People are different / appreciate different forms of entertainment. Some find it thrilling to risk everything. Winning means so much more when you can actually lose.
I would play on a permadeath server or in a game that had permadeath consequence, because it is the ultimate challenge to survive in that type of environment. As long as everyone else on that server had the same restrictions or significant benefits were offered to those who chose to play a character who could suffer permadeath, then it would be fun and worth it to me.
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid.
Eh. It's like the bully who wants to beat up on other people and take their money. Problem is there are bigger bullies than him that will beat him up and take HIS money. Then it's not so fun anymore.
This is a lesson most of us learn in life at some point. We should not make mmo companies invest 10's of millions of dollars into games to impart this little bit of wisdom which can easily be had by walking up to the biggest, meanest guy in town and kicking him in the testicles.
So, you're saying WoW and the whiney-bears are kids that never learned the nut shot? :-3
Dying in an MMO without a severe penalty can either feel welcome, or totally wrong and game-breaking, depending on the person and their state of mind. I'm one of the people who feels more gratified when whatever I'm doing is actually challenging and there's a certain amount of risk involved. Like I said, some people prefer the exact opposite, being unique is part of being human after all.
Someone in another thread said that a Highlander MMO would a good design for having perma-death. I agree and think it would make a great game. At certain points in the game you could move forward through time. It would be best to have the game be skill based so that there would be less noob killing. Perma-death would be easy to implement in the game. Your character is immortal unless his (her) head is chopped off. Simple enough. If the character's head is removed, your character permanently dies. The best way to implement this would be duels. Both parties would have to want to put their character's lives on the line. The winner of the duel experiences the quickening and absorbs some of the skills from the loser, thus making them more adaptable in fights, but not necessarily stronger. If you don't want your character to die, you don't accept the duel. The game could be set during various ages of the world. The end game would be the Gathering where the only safe place is holy ground. Everyone who wanted to go into the Gathering phase could, those that don't could spend the entire time going throughout history living the past and experiencing all sorts of different events. The developers could even have it so that the Gathering happens once every x amount of time. The winner of that particular Gathering is the last one, and wins some sort of prize.
Permanent death would be realy hard to implement in any type of mmo,regardless of gameplay,expecialy in mmos were pvp is involved.The best exemple of a good risk vs reward system is eve online atm,tho it isnt implementable in most mmos I think it's great,and eve is the only moo that atempted a punishable death system with succes.
The risks are: lose ship and/or getting podded (dying is a risk of it's own since if your clone is not up to date you lose skill points,also you loose implants when you die wich are a expensive loss when you have 1bilion wired in your head)
Rewards: ability to loot what remains from the destroyed ship's wreckage and/or asking for money to let the your pod go.
SWG for a period of time had a permanent death for jedis:
Risks: If you die you start from scratch
Rewards: nothing realy,except for being close to invincible
Alot of mmo companies are too scared to implement any type of severe death penalty except for res sickness or something similar,they stick to the WoW theme and fail like always,why would I play the exact same thing with a different skin.
I've actually enjoyed Lotro because it allows you to at least have a title for attempting to permadeath. Ive managed to hit 45 without falling in battle. Albeit I did get gored by a boar, pretty badly mauled by a bear and a uncountable amount of times almost dying fighting various undead. Its fun though because its a option. Not a mandatory state of being.
At least thats my opinion.
So, you're saying WoW and the whiney-bears are kids that never learned the nut shot? :-3
HAHAHAHA!
Or maybe-
Some people fear the paddle while other people put a ball in their mouth and beg for it. To each his own I guess....
So, you're saying WoW and the whiney-bears are kids that never learned the nut shot? :-3
HAHAHAHA!
Or maybe-
Some people fear the paddle while other people put a ball in their mouth and beg for it. To each his own I guess....
LMAO!
oh boy, that made my day.
So simple, yet so effective. Great metaphor.
perma death works quite nicely for shooters(those non-hybrid ones). when you die you lose pretty much everything.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
i dont like permadeath cause when i spend hundreds or more hours on a toon that can lose everything when he dies once then id piss my pants 24/7
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
Don't you fell your accomplishments feel indifferent when you know there is no way of losing them? Even just a little bit?
In a game like wow perma death would not work at all. In a game with significantly simpler and quicker progression with a series of advancement based on certain milestones whether it be time alive, opponents killed or whatever it would work fine.
The main issue with permadeath as it stands atm is simply the fact that games now a days are not designed with permadeath as a functional part of the game. Even Diablo2 and Hellgate London are poor implementations.
I wont go over my ideas for perma death as I simply dont want my ideas ganked by some other developer, but there are ways to do perma death.
That's the point, a game would have to be designed in such a way that many people wouldn't find it fun at all, including a lot of you. And for those of you that do like it, after you put a ton of work into your character and have everything, then die and lose him, lets see how you feel about permadeath then. All I have to say is I told you so, and don't come crying to me.
While I'm totally against permadeath, I'm completely for more death penalties.
Ex: Break armor, drop items, gold, etc. Lose experiece, delevel. PvP Full Looting.
But permadeath? LOL! That's all I can even say to that.
{ Mod Edit }
I've played permadeath versions of varous games, and liked it. Did you ever try HC in Diablo 2? That was very well implemented in my opinion. Its a niche genre, but who is to stop a dev from creating a permadeath server? I think it would be more popular than most people think.
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid.
I find your logic very amusing.
Again totaly not true. Just because a game is designed with perma death doesnt mean its "not fun" I can think of two ways to implement perma death in such a way that folks would not be thrown off by it. See your still focused mainly on the "Ton" of work into your character.
Lets look at it from two different angles.
#1 What if it didnt take a ton of work to get your character set up. What if there were no levels and we focus mainly on a skill system type setup. You use skills you gain skill...simple. Obviously the longer your alive the higher your skill. Well... reduce time needed to use skill to get a increase. Skills area easily increased and while staying alive does give an advantage over dying... getting back to where you were isnt a huge ordeal.
Also, minimize the curve. Say you start off with a sword and you can hurt someone significantly with it. As you advance you become more effective against armor, and as you approach GM status your able to defeat someone in armor with ease.
Bob the newbie has 50 sword you have 100 sword. Bob is clumsy with his sword while you are a master. In wow's mechanics BoB has no chance against you. Your maxed, he's a 1 hit kill, barely a speed bump.
Change that system, so bob has a real chance to kill you if you make a mistake. One hit kills are removed, BoB may not be as good as you, but that doesnt mean he is a stick figure that can be squished. Give Bob a chance to fight back, while at a disadvantage it narrows the playing field. this restarting not as painful.
#2. Have a system setup where some of your wealth in items, property, components, and money transfers over. Instead of everything being wiped, just your character dies. Your worldly possesions dont. This gives you the ability to pick up where you left off. Thin of a father dying, and a son taking over his estate. Maybe setup some form of Tax system (similar to the beloved death tax) and your good to go.
What you need to realize is just beacuse WoW's current mechanics dont support a system with perma death doesnt mean permadeath isnt possible. Use your imagination and think outside the box.