This topic of permadeath in mmos is pretty much like beating on a very very old dead horse. Permadeath might work only in specific types of games (such as Hellgate London which has hardcore mode where your character has only 1 life and death is permanent) and general market consensus is that only very few players are willing to invest in a permadeath character (it can be said in examples like Hellgate london where regular characters outnumber permadeath characters 50 to 1). Most players who plays permadeath characters are hardcore players who have a lot of spare time in their hands to invest in the game and is considered a point of pride in reaching high levels with their characters without dying a single time.
I hear there is perma-death in a game called REAL LIFE...also hear it is a real bummer.
I think that it is probibly just a small group of players that would be gung ho for such a game. I guess players themselves could implement it in game. Like that DDO group that does. When you die you delete character. Same thing...nobody should complain when they can do it themselves. The games are made for the general masses. Ppl wanting something specific from a game just gotta find a way to do it themselves.
Originally posted by Narian89 Originally posted by ladyattis
Originally posted by rovo hehe, Perma-Death would be an OPTION on some different server. Once your guild dies off or something, just move to regular servers, its just there for another play option .Also, it wouldn't really work for a full-time thing on level-based MMOs. They had one server in EQ for ~month, the highest levels got rewards on their main server characters (also got the characters that one transfered over). Just never would work full-time cause you will be able to just farm the competition once the higher levels got situated (level-based MMOs only).
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid. I find your logic very amusing.
There's nothing amusing about it. You're asserting that the current DPS model is the only DPS model. Can you give me evidence for that? Otherwise, any claims given are based on the assumption that every model for combat follows the same model you suggest (WoW).
ive got a level 12 hardcore elite melee summoner in mythos,its pretty good fun. certainly puts an edge on things. Its actually a pretty popular mode too,and its normal mode (aka super easy mode) that seems to be the least popular. Id like to try it in hellgate,except in not willing to sub
Didnt dofus (??) just add a hardcore mode too? and shaiya has a kind of permadeath option. so there must be a section of players out there who like that kind of thing,though i wouldnt fancy it in something really gear centric like eq2 or wow. 6 months of repetitive raiding with people you dont like, all to lose it in a second after a hunter attacks you and feigns death in booty bay,leaving you at the mercy of the goblins..
I wouldn't say pure permadeath would be good because then you'd have to make up a new character each time you died. How about you just de-level to level 1 and you loose everything. Or maybe you just de-level 10 levels each death.
i dont like permadeath cause when i spend hundreds or more hours on a toon that can lose everything when he dies once then id piss my pants 24/7
Don't you fell your accomplishments feel indifferent when you know there is no way of losing them? Even just a little bit?
no i just like to have some certainty, knowing theres no way i can lose an item i maybe raided months for i like to keep it like that, permadeath just isnt my thing n thats why i dont play those games
MMOs currently playing: - About to play: Lord of the Rings Online Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
First I want you to play this. Use the arrow keys to move and type in ' ? ' followed by ' * ' for the list of commands for the game.
After you've beaten that, IF you beat that, I want you to download Mame and the ROM for Don Pachi. Your assignment is to beat the game three times. You may continue all the way through to the ending on the first run. After that you have to beat it on one credit. Finally I want you to beat it on just one life. Then tell us which run was the most rewarding for you.
Now since I'm sure you've completely missed the point, download and beat Angband.
Permadeath is just another restriction added to the game in order to create challenge. It's not a risk vs. reward thing at all. It's all about trying to get to where you're going with limited resources. That kind of logistical strategy just doesn't happen in a game with no negative consequences for failure.
Modern MMOs are like playing Contra with infinite lives. It doesn't matter how often you get killed, you're going to get to the end. Given, very few people can beat that game without two players using the 99 life trick, but if you were able to beat it without continuing or losing a life then the sense of accomplishment would be truly awe inspiring.
Aside from super casual games like Bejeweled or Super Collapse, MMORPGs are probably the easiest games ever made. Some of us enjoy a challenge.
Why are a lot of people now posting about wanting permadeath in MMO's? Thats not like WoW! You would have to be doing something that was totally different from WoW. Something unique isn't WoW, and why wouldn't you want to be playing WoW. Seriously, people need to shut the hell up with their "creativity" BS, theres nothing more creative than WoW. If WoW can't do it, it can't be done or its boring. WoW.
What's wrong with permadeath? People do it in D&D Online all the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =The best bash.org quote ever= Curt teh Juggler: our graduation ceremony was today, and right when some gamer nerd got his diploma, someone in the audience played the zelda "get item" music and he did the zelda spin-hold-out-item stance Curt teh Juggler: it was quite possibly the most amazing thing ever.
Why are a lot of people now posting about wanting permadeath in MMO's? Thats not like WoW! You would have to be doing something that was totally different from WoW. Something unique isn't WoW, and why wouldn't you want to be playing WoW. Seriously, people need to shut the hell up with their "creativity" BS, theres nothing more creative than WoW. If WoW can't do it, it can't be done or its boring. WoW.
Alright OP.... First I want you to play this. Use the arrow keys to move and type in ' ? ' followed by ' * ' for the list of commands for the game. After you've beaten that, IF you beat that, I want you to download Mame and the ROM for Don Pachi. Your assignment is to beat the game three times. You may continue all the way through to the ending on the first run. After that you have to beat it on one credit. Finally I want you to beat it on just one life. Then tell us which run was the most rewarding for you. Now since I'm sure you've completely missed the point, download and beat Angband. Permadeath is just another restriction added to the game in order to create challenge. It's not a risk vs. reward thing at all. It's all about trying to get to where you're going with limited resources. That kind of logistical strategy just doesn't happen in a game with no negative consequences for failure. Modern MMOs are like playing Contra with infinite lives. It doesn't matter how often you get killed, you're going to get to the end. Given, very few people can beat that game without two players using the 99 life trick, but if you were able to beat it without continuing or losing a life then the sense of accomplishment would be truly awe inspiring. Aside from super casual games like Bejeweled or Super Collapse, MMORPGs are probably the easiest games ever made. Some of us enjoy a challenge.
I would love to see a game with a permadeath server, for all the reasons already mentioned. I whole-heartedly agree it adds another level of excitement. I am also a fan of corpse-looting and open, factionless pvp, as all of these things make mouthy folks think twice before spoutin off. Where most of you are getting derailed on this thing is where you assume you'd be "forced" to play on a server ruleset you don't agree with. I don't think anyone has said "permadeath is best for everyone."
hehe, Perma-Death would be an OPTION on some different server. Once your guild dies off or something, just move to regular servers, its just there for another play option .
Also, it wouldn't really work for a full-time thing on level-based MMOs. They had one server in EQ for ~month, the highest levels got rewards on their main server characters (also got the characters that one transfered over). Just never would work full-time cause you will be able to just farm the competition once the higher levels got situated (level-based MMOs only).
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid.
I find your logic very amusing.
There's nothing amusing about it. You're asserting that the current DPS model is the only DPS model. Can you give me evidence for that? Otherwise, any claims given are based on the assumption that every model for combat follows the same model you suggest (WoW).
Originally posted by Narian89 Originally posted by Kordesh Originally posted by Narian89 Why are a lot of people now posting about wanting permadeath in MMO's? Thats not like WoW! You would have to be doing something that was totally different from WoW. Something unique isn't WoW, and why wouldn't you want to be playing WoW. Seriously, people need to shut the hell up with their "creativity" BS, theres nothing more creative than WoW. If WoW can't do it, it can't be done or its boring. WoW.
Hahahahahahahaha! Totally not what I said. Yes it is.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Best online time I ever had (a MUD) had eventual perma death. You had about 80 deaths, before the final death. And there was full looting pvp. And I have yet to see a MMORPG that was this fun.
My main never died, I think I had about 4 deaths, and I pvp'd all the time.
Why are a lot of people now posting about wanting permadeath in MMO's? Thats not like WoW! You would have to be doing something that was totally different from WoW. Something unique isn't WoW, and why wouldn't you want to be playing WoW. Seriously, people need to shut the hell up with their "creativity" BS, theres nothing more creative than WoW. If WoW can't do it, it can't be done or its boring. WoW.
Hahahahahahahaha! Totally not what I said.
Yes it is.
I forgot that you know what I meant much better than I. Sorry to question you.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless. WoW seems to be the king of dumbed down MMORPGs that made the genre shallow and cheap.
According to how many people play WoW, I would say that many people like dumbed down easy games. I personally prefer more depth and wish a MMORPG would come out that had some.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
Read my post above, yes people like you seem to enjoy the stupidfied MMORPGs of today.
Another yet insightful post brought to us by a WoW player. This may just blow your brain OP but sometimes games are not the same as WoW. In MUDs permadeath is a common thing and those games usaully don't take that long to level in and equipment isn't as rare. It isn't a cake walk but it is designed with permadeath in mind.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
eh, I'm not so sure about that. I wouldn't put the North American total MMO sub numbers any higher than 5 million, and in fact probably less...which would put WoW at 50% of all those subs as well.
ROFL, yeah its easy to say Permadeath could work when you arn't explain the rest of the game like item hunting and level grinding. Can't believe people honestly think permadeath would actually work especially in a game that has PvP. Especially when you don't take in to account groups roving the countryside killing everybody they see.
Comments
This topic of permadeath in mmos is pretty much like beating on a very very old dead horse. Permadeath might work only in specific types of games (such as Hellgate London which has hardcore mode where your character has only 1 life and death is permanent) and general market consensus is that only very few players are willing to invest in a permadeath character (it can be said in examples like Hellgate london where regular characters outnumber permadeath characters 50 to 1). Most players who plays permadeath characters are hardcore players who have a lot of spare time in their hands to invest in the game and is considered a point of pride in reaching high levels with their characters without dying a single time.
I hear there is perma-death in a game called REAL LIFE...also hear it is a real bummer.
I think that it is probibly just a small group of players that would be gung ho for such a game. I guess players themselves could implement it in game. Like that DDO group that does. When you die you delete character. Same thing...nobody should complain when they can do it themselves. The games are made for the general masses. Ppl wanting something specific from a game just gotta find a way to do it themselves.
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid.
I find your logic very amusing.
There's nothing amusing about it. You're asserting that the current DPS model is the only DPS model. Can you give me evidence for that? Otherwise, any claims given are based on the assumption that every model for combat follows the same model you suggest (WoW).
-- Brede
ive got a level 12 hardcore elite melee summoner in mythos,its pretty good fun. certainly puts an edge on things. Its actually a pretty popular mode too,and its normal mode (aka super easy mode) that seems to be the least popular. Id like to try it in hellgate,except in not willing to sub
Didnt dofus (??) just add a hardcore mode too? and shaiya has a kind of permadeath option. so there must be a section of players out there who like that kind of thing,though i wouldnt fancy it in something really gear centric like eq2 or wow. 6 months of repetitive raiding with people you dont like, all to lose it in a second after a hunter attacks you and feigns death in booty bay,leaving you at the mercy of the goblins..
I wouldn't say pure permadeath would be good because then you'd have to make up a new character each time you died. How about you just de-level to level 1 and you loose everything. Or maybe you just de-level 10 levels each death.
Don't you fell your accomplishments feel indifferent when you know there is no way of losing them? Even just a little bit?
no i just like to have some certainty, knowing theres no way i can lose an item i maybe raided months for i like to keep it like that, permadeath just isnt my thing n thats why i dont play those games
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
Alright OP....
First I want you to play this. Use the arrow keys to move and type in ' ? ' followed by ' * ' for the list of commands for the game.
After you've beaten that, IF you beat that, I want you to download Mame and the ROM for Don Pachi. Your assignment is to beat the game three times. You may continue all the way through to the ending on the first run. After that you have to beat it on one credit. Finally I want you to beat it on just one life. Then tell us which run was the most rewarding for you.
Now since I'm sure you've completely missed the point, download and beat Angband.
Permadeath is just another restriction added to the game in order to create challenge. It's not a risk vs. reward thing at all. It's all about trying to get to where you're going with limited resources. That kind of logistical strategy just doesn't happen in a game with no negative consequences for failure.
Modern MMOs are like playing Contra with infinite lives. It doesn't matter how often you get killed, you're going to get to the end. Given, very few people can beat that game without two players using the 99 life trick, but if you were able to beat it without continuing or losing a life then the sense of accomplishment would be truly awe inspiring.
Aside from super casual games like Bejeweled or Super Collapse, MMORPGs are probably the easiest games ever made. Some of us enjoy a challenge.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
What's wrong with permadeath? People do it in D&D Online all the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=The best bash.org quote ever=
Curt teh Juggler: our graduation ceremony was today, and right when some gamer nerd got his diploma, someone in the audience played the zelda "get item" music and he did the zelda spin-hold-out-item stance
Curt teh Juggler: it was quite possibly the most amazing thing ever.
Hahahahahahahaha! Totally not what I said.
Nah, I'll pass.
I would love to see a game with a permadeath server, for all the reasons already mentioned. I whole-heartedly agree it adds another level of excitement. I am also a fan of corpse-looting and open, factionless pvp, as all of these things make mouthy folks think twice before spoutin off. Where most of you are getting derailed on this thing is where you assume you'd be "forced" to play on a server ruleset you don't agree with. I don't think anyone has said "permadeath is best for everyone."
Yep, that's why those models for DPS will never work. But Perma-death by definition does not depend on those specified one dimensional DPS models to be fulfilled. Therefore, Perma-death is not stupid.
I find your logic very amusing.
There's nothing amusing about it. You're asserting that the current DPS model is the only DPS model. Can you give me evidence for that? Otherwise, any claims given are based on the assumption that every model for combat follows the same model you suggest (WoW).
-- Brede
Re-read. Not saying that at all. lol!
Hahahahahahahaha! Totally not what I said.
Yes it is.
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
Best online time I ever had (a MUD) had eventual perma death. You had about 80 deaths, before the final death. And there was full looting pvp. And I have yet to see a MMORPG that was this fun.
My main never died, I think I had about 4 deaths, and I pvp'd all the time.
Hahahahahahahaha! Totally not what I said.
Yes it is.
I forgot that you know what I meant much better than I. Sorry to question you.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless. WoW seems to be the king of dumbed down MMORPGs that made the genre shallow and cheap.
According to how many people play WoW, I would say that many people like dumbed down easy games. I personally prefer more depth and wish a MMORPG would come out that had some.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
Read my post above, yes people like you seem to enjoy the stupidfied MMORPGs of today.
I don't play WoW. I just see that they have a large playerbase. Nice assumption though.
Get an education, then come back. I clearly stated that a game would have to much different than WoW to pull it off. The game would have to be dumbed down so much that many people would not find it fun.
You really have out done yourself, congratulations. Using WoW as an example of a game that isn't dumbed down and clueless to how much more depth even a MUD has than WoW .. priceless.
My bad, Blizzard's doing nothing right with that game. They only hold more than half the entite MMO playerbase, totally my bad.
Correct...in Asia.
eh, I'm not so sure about that. I wouldn't put the North American total MMO sub numbers any higher than 5 million, and in fact probably less...which would put WoW at 50% of all those subs as well.
ROFL, yeah its easy to say Permadeath could work when you arn't explain the rest of the game like item hunting and level grinding. Can't believe people honestly think permadeath would actually work especially in a game that has PvP. Especially when you don't take in to account groups roving the countryside killing everybody they see.