Looking at old screens vs. newer screens of course you are going to see a difference.
Me?
I took the old screens as "works in progress" and instead of analyzing the pixels and shaders etc. I focused on the art direction.. the "style" and the "feel" of the game.
And I like what I saw. Of course improvements will be made, after all, they are works in progress.
So then I look at the new screens and see the same style and feel that I like, and now see the shaders and lighting and "quality" of the engine and I too must say that I really like them.
It's like looking at the hand-drawn story boards for a movie and saying "this movie looks like crap" instead of waiting to see the actual moving scenes in the movie and how they play out.
If the game is fun, I'll play it regardless of its graphics. If the game is crap, then who cares how pretty the images on your screen are if you are bored out of your mind with the actual game? One can look at pretty graphics for free with the internet.
Why not have great gameplay and great graphics? Am I fantasizing here? Perhaps. But, I think both elements are equally important and see no reason why someone should state that they prefer a quality more over another. A game should have all the important qualities in order to create the best immersion possible.
I could not force myself to really try DAOC, City of Villains and even Everquest 2 because I hated graphics in those games (EQ2 graphics even because of art direction and "plastic" look).
WAR graphics (screenshots, mind you, I really need to see HD videos or play in beta) look pretty weak to me, so right now, I don't believe I will play it.
I think one of the main problems with this argument is the expectations of each individual. Of course great graphics are eye candy to everyone, yet what people seem to believe is that every new game that comes out must top the previous one in this aspect. No where has it ever been stated or expressed that Warhammer Online is striving to be the most realistic looking game out there.
There is also a vast range of different screenshots floating around that I don't believe are good representations of what the game is/will look like. Can't say I have seen the game personally myself, but it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a low res and hi res screenshot, and those shots that are not including certain aspects such as lighting and textures. The screenshots that are being posted on various sites are also not necessarily the most recent screen shots either, they may be taken a while ago and just now recently released.
The strategy behind not showing all that there is to offer of the game is not necessarily a positive or negative thing. Sure people tend to judge a game upon its cover, or in this case screenshot, but in the end I think Mythic and EA will feed the people what they want. People may decide not to buy it, but seriously with still potentially a few months to go till release, everyone will be taking a second and third look before the game comes out anyways. You don't buy something without looking into it yourself and trying it out. To be honest it is still too far off even for myself to known if I will play this game, we'll see when its ready, so far so good though.
edit. I hate to draw references but do the 8 million or whatever players who play WOW really play it for the graphics?
Poor quality graphics on 80% of the screenshots from CLOSED BETA STAGE are not an indicator of how the game looks at release. And anyone who has previously followed MMOs from development to release should already know this. Everyone else, well, don't feel stupid you just need to learn how the process works.
Yeh the game releases latest 6 months and i've played plenty of mmorpgs in my time to know the graphics will hardly change between now and release........ now if it was in alpha then it's a different story lol.
There haven't been any screens released with a higher/mdedium res option enabled it seems, that shot on the first page is clearly low res.
I'm sure it will look much better after beta, most MMOs in beta of recent memory have not enabled the hi res textures until most of the testing is down to keep the download small.
Originally posted by jzuska Originally posted by altairzq Originally posted by jzuska To the OP: Nope, nobody cares about graphics. Gameplay and story is what drives an MMORPG.
Talk for yourself, I care about graphics among other things.
Really? Graphics are #1 on your list? Over gameplay and player population. So if you're the only guy playing and it takes a machine worth more than your home to play, that makes you content? Really? I dont believe you.
Don't you know if the graphics suck then the rest of the game must suck. Look at THQ games on the PS3 or XBOX - They've concentrated hard on the graphics and none at all on interesting gameplay in any game ever and they still sell. Graphics sell a game.
That said, I still fire up Horizons every now and then (which, yes, is still alive somehow). Those graphics suck eggs but the people who still play are there for the community and pretty much nothing else. To reiterate my first point though: this game *isn't* selling.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
To the OP: Nope, nobody cares about graphics. Gameplay and story is what drives an MMORPG.
Talk for yourself, I care about graphics among other things.
Really? Graphics are #1 on your list? Over gameplay and player population. So if you're the only guy playing and it takes a machine worth more than your home to play, that makes you content? Really? I dont believe you.
Don't you know if the graphics suck then the rest of the game must suck. Look at THQ games on the PS3 or XBOX - They've concentrated hard on the graphics and none at all on interesting gameplay in any game ever and they still sell. Graphics sell a game.
That said, I still fire up Horizons every now and then (which, yes, is still alive somehow). Those graphics suck eggs but the people who still play are there for the community and pretty much nothing else. To reiterate my first point though: this game *isn't* selling.
There's obviously tons of players that don't care as much about graphics, LOTRO (others say Vanguard) is currently considered the MMO with the best graphics, yet they pale in comparison to WoW.
Graphics...I dunno. I think good animations are very important, to make everything feel smooth and alive. I wouldn't mind if they ripped out 20% of the poly's if they could promise animations on the level of WoW and CoH/V.
I'm not too impressed with those 'screenshot' friendly games. All the pretty sights in the world won't help if your character's upper body doesn't even move while walking (LotRO, I'm looking at you).
From what I've seen from WAR so far, it's...questionable. Definitely too happy/toony for my taste, but I'm really a fan of the older/darker editions of Warhammer. The characters do seem a bit static, but we'll see...
Im gald you used this photo my brother went insaine about how much he liked it. YEs that is right.
Why two reasosn we play many fps, and understand FPS graphixs.
We also play many MMOs and understand mmo graphixs.
To this daoc has THE BEST GRAPHIX for how many people u can have in one spot and the low amount of lag you get. Doac s graphixs are not bad also , take a look at higher res new shots, still they are not FPS quality , which is good becuase there no way you could have 200-300 people all with 10-15 items which all need to load and draw and not lag awfully.
So i hope to god that mmo makers don't try to use fps quality graphixs so that the game is actually playable. (And massive).
PS people looking at animatiosn ... have not been for they beet every other mmo's animations out there hands down. Now a few bloom, lighting, and bloom effects need help . But 80% of the animations are top notch.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This thread is prolly really good news for WAR fans and devs.
Why?
Because just b4 the release of WoW the graphics were constantly being complained about as being "cartoony and campy." Obviously, it did a lot of damage to that game.
I understand WAR is still in Beta, HOWEVER, the game is due to go live in a couple months. After watching many videos and checking out countless pictures, I believe the graphics are at a scale of about a 6.5 out of 10 in today's generation of MMO's..
Personally, the game looks to similar with WoW, with only slightly better modified detail and artwork. I honestly hope all the vids and pics I've seen is just an outdated version of the client, but I wont cross my fingers.
For me, I'm closely following AoC and WAR. Since I'm not in WAR beta, I cant give a more detailed evaluation. But as of AoC, I can honestly say this game looks great and I'm leaning towards purchasing this over WAR, simply because this looks like a next gen MMO,
whereas WAR looks like it should have came out 4 years ago.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I agree about the graphics. *Any* new game should be an eye popping environment and be up to snuff in game mechanics and storyline.
Failing in the whole, or even in part, of those requirements a game isn't worth the initial investment, let alone a continued premimum. Take a look at the titles in the released list. Sure we all have our first's, our favorites of all time, the game we're currently playing while looking for something new. The constant claim that MMO's are in their infancy is rediculous. I agree that they are at an early stage in the entertainment realm but infancy(roflmao). I'm weary of lackluster cookie cutters.
If your truly a fan of an IP then perfect, have a great time but there's no reason that you can't both expect and demand the absolute best from your entertainment. Afterall, your paying for it. AoC anyone?
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
Of course a game (especially a mmo) should have excelent gameplay but this is not 80's if they want to release a new gen game feature / gameplay wise they should not neglect the grapics. Especially for a mmo I will most likely will be looking at for many hours I at least want to look at something nice. This is also why I gave up on WoW after a short time I'm pretty sure its a good mmo but the grapics are (imo) horrible so i couldn't bare playing it for a long period of time.
They've never claimed or once even hinted at this is 'next gen' MMO. People who judge it as such because AoC is supposed to be 'next gen' aren't aware or dont' take this into account. If WAR was claiming Next Gen Graphics which they aren't I'd look for more. Considering the size of the battles they're attempting to go for using AoC's engine would essentially bring player's computer's to their knees. PC"s still can not handle Large amounts of players all in one area all at high resolution. Whats the point of making something super awsome realistic if you can't play it with more than 10 people at a time?
Also considering I've done many beta's in the past I know from experience they never give Beta Testers the High Res client ... Lord of the Rings sure didn't, SWG? Hell no god their graphics were ass compared to what was top of the line during beta.
I'm not saying this is an excuse but it is how it is, plus giving players for beta the high res client would mean they have to download 2 or 3 times more information which just seems pointless when they're only intent is to get the gameplay working.
EA's Second Quarter ends on September 30 there's more than 'a couple of months' to go for WAR.
oh and i know that is their fiscal quarter 2 but considering game stop says Sept 10th it just makes me believe that their pushbacks deadlines aren't for us but for investors / money peeps.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
EA's Second Quarter ends on September 30 there's more than 'a couple of months' to go for WAR. oh and i know that is their fiscal quarter 2 but considering game stop says Sept 10th it just makes me believe that their pushbacks deadlines aren't for us but for investors / money peeps.
Ahhh, so they weren't referring to the U.S 2nd quarter? Is there anything out there that confirms this?
This whole time I figuried games release dates posted on MMORPG were based on the United States Calendar..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Comments
Looking at old screens vs. newer screens of course you are going to see a difference.
Me?
I took the old screens as "works in progress" and instead of analyzing the pixels and shaders etc. I focused on the art direction.. the "style" and the "feel" of the game.
And I like what I saw. Of course improvements will be made, after all, they are works in progress.
So then I look at the new screens and see the same style and feel that I like, and now see the shaders and lighting and "quality" of the engine and I too must say that I really like them.
It's like looking at the hand-drawn story boards for a movie and saying "this movie looks like crap" instead of waiting to see the actual moving scenes in the movie and how they play out.
Gameplay is everything!
Playing: League of Legends!
Talk for yourself, I care about graphics among other things.
If the game is fun, I'll play it regardless of its graphics. If the game is crap, then who cares how pretty the images on your screen are if you are bored out of your mind with the actual game? One can look at pretty graphics for free with the internet.
Talk for yourself, I care about graphics among other things.
Really? Graphics are #1 on your list?
Over gameplay and player population.
So if you're the only guy playing and it takes a machine worth more than your home to play, that makes you content? Really? I dont believe you.
Why not have great gameplay and great graphics? Am I fantasizing here? Perhaps. But, I think both elements are equally important and see no reason why someone should state that they prefer a quality more over another. A game should have all the important qualities in order to create the best immersion possible.
Straight off the Warhammer Concept Art page. This is most likely the White Lion's pet.
The filename is was CNWhitelion or something of that sort for a while, but now it has been changed.
I care about graphics.
I could not force myself to really try DAOC, City of Villains and even Everquest 2 because I hated graphics in those games (EQ2 graphics even because of art direction and "plastic" look).
WAR graphics (screenshots, mind you, I really need to see HD videos or play in beta) look pretty weak to me, so right now, I don't believe I will play it.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
I think one of the main problems with this argument is the expectations of each individual. Of course great graphics are eye candy to everyone, yet what people seem to believe is that every new game that comes out must top the previous one in this aspect. No where has it ever been stated or expressed that Warhammer Online is striving to be the most realistic looking game out there.
There is also a vast range of different screenshots floating around that I don't believe are good representations of what the game is/will look like. Can't say I have seen the game personally myself, but it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a low res and hi res screenshot, and those shots that are not including certain aspects such as lighting and textures. The screenshots that are being posted on various sites are also not necessarily the most recent screen shots either, they may be taken a while ago and just now recently released.
The strategy behind not showing all that there is to offer of the game is not necessarily a positive or negative thing. Sure people tend to judge a game upon its cover, or in this case screenshot, but in the end I think Mythic and EA will feed the people what they want. People may decide not to buy it, but seriously with still potentially a few months to go till release, everyone will be taking a second and third look before the game comes out anyways. You don't buy something without looking into it yourself and trying it out. To be honest it is still too far off even for myself to known if I will play this game, we'll see when its ready, so far so good though.
edit. I hate to draw references but do the 8 million or whatever players who play WOW really play it for the graphics?
Graphics would be a "hook." Game play determines long-term success.
Poor quality graphics on 80% of the screenshots from CLOSED BETA STAGE are not an indicator of how the game looks at release.
And anyone who has previously followed MMOs from development to release should already know this.
Everyone else, well, don't feel stupid you just need to learn how the process works.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Yeh the game releases latest 6 months and i've played plenty of mmorpgs in my time to know the graphics will hardly change between now and release........ now if it was in alpha then it's a different story lol.
You need to learn how it works tbh.
You don't like the graphic, then don't play.
There, that was easy, wasn't it?
Me, I'm playing regardless, lets just hope it runs smooth and with low bugs...that will make me happy.
(and hope its fun as well)
Who the hell are you, and why should I care?
Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
There haven't been any screens released with a higher/mdedium res option enabled it seems, that shot on the first page is clearly low res.
I'm sure it will look much better after beta, most MMOs in beta of recent memory have not enabled the hi res textures until most of the testing is down to keep the download small.
Really? Graphics are #1 on your list?
Over gameplay and player population.
So if you're the only guy playing and it takes a machine worth more than your home to play, that makes you content? Really? I dont believe you.
Don't you know if the graphics suck then the rest of the game must suck. Look at THQ games on the PS3 or XBOX - They've concentrated hard on the graphics and none at all on interesting gameplay in any game ever and they still sell. Graphics sell a game.
That said, I still fire up Horizons every now and then (which, yes, is still alive somehow). Those graphics suck eggs but the people who still play are there for the community and pretty much nothing else. To reiterate my first point though: this game *isn't* selling.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
Graphics...I dunno. I think good animations are very important, to make everything feel smooth and alive. I wouldn't mind if they ripped out 20% of the poly's if they could promise animations on the level of WoW and CoH/V.
I'm not too impressed with those 'screenshot' friendly games. All the pretty sights in the world won't help if your character's upper body doesn't even move while walking (LotRO, I'm looking at you).
From what I've seen from WAR so far, it's...questionable. Definitely too happy/toony for my taste, but I'm really a fan of the older/darker editions of Warhammer. The characters do seem a bit static, but we'll see...
Im gald you used this photo my brother went insaine about how much he liked it. YEs that is right.
Why two reasosn we play many fps, and understand FPS graphixs.
We also play many MMOs and understand mmo graphixs.
To this daoc has THE BEST GRAPHIX for how many people u can have in one spot and the low amount of lag you get. Doac s graphixs are not bad also , take a look at higher res new shots, still they are not FPS quality , which is good becuase there no way you could have 200-300 people all with 10-15 items which all need to load and draw and not lag awfully.
So i hope to god that mmo makers don't try to use fps quality graphixs so that the game is actually playable. (And massive).
PS people looking at animatiosn ... have not been for they beet every other mmo's animations out there hands down. Now a few bloom, lighting, and bloom effects need help . But 80% of the animations are top notch.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This thread is prolly really good news for WAR fans and devs.
Why?
Because just b4 the release of WoW the graphics were constantly being complained about as being "cartoony and campy." Obviously, it did a lot of damage to that game.
I understand WAR is still in Beta, HOWEVER, the game is due to go live in a couple months. After watching many videos and checking out countless pictures, I believe the graphics are at a scale of about a 6.5 out of 10 in today's generation of MMO's..
Personally, the game looks to similar with WoW, with only slightly better modified detail and artwork. I honestly hope all the vids and pics I've seen is just an outdated version of the client, but I wont cross my fingers.
For me, I'm closely following AoC and WAR. Since I'm not in WAR beta, I cant give a more detailed evaluation. But as of AoC, I can honestly say this game looks great and I'm leaning towards purchasing this over WAR, simply because this looks like a next gen MMO,
whereas WAR looks like it should have came out 4 years ago.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm more worried about gameplay. They can say it's beta all they want but I haven't really seen *any* video's yet where the combat looked enticing.
On the contrary, it looks quite slow and stale so far.
I hope when the NDA drops something better comes out otherwise I doubt this'll be my next game.
@ ;the OP
I agree about the graphics. *Any* new game should be an eye popping environment and be up to snuff in game mechanics and storyline.
Failing in the whole, or even in part, of those requirements a game isn't worth the initial investment, let alone a continued premimum. Take a look at the titles in the released list. Sure we all have our first's, our favorites of all time, the game we're currently playing while looking for something new. The constant claim that MMO's are in their infancy is rediculous. I agree that they are at an early stage in the entertainment realm but infancy(roflmao). I'm weary of lackluster cookie cutters.
If your truly a fan of an IP then perfect, have a great time but there's no reason that you can't both expect and demand the absolute best from your entertainment. Afterall, your paying for it. AoC anyone?
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
Of course a game (especially a mmo) should have excelent gameplay but this is not 80's if they want to release a new gen game feature / gameplay wise they should not neglect the grapics. Especially for a mmo I will most likely will be looking at for many hours I at least want to look at something nice. This is also why I gave up on WoW after a short time I'm pretty sure its a good mmo but the grapics are (imo) horrible so i couldn't bare playing it for a long period of time.
So hence I have to agree with the topic maker...
They've never claimed or once even hinted at this is 'next gen' MMO. People who judge it as such because AoC is supposed to be 'next gen' aren't aware or dont' take this into account. If WAR was claiming Next Gen Graphics which they aren't I'd look for more. Considering the size of the battles they're attempting to go for using AoC's engine would essentially bring player's computer's to their knees. PC"s still can not handle Large amounts of players all in one area all at high resolution. Whats the point of making something super awsome realistic if you can't play it with more than 10 people at a time?
Also considering I've done many beta's in the past I know from experience they never give Beta Testers the High Res client ... Lord of the Rings sure didn't, SWG? Hell no god their graphics were ass compared to what was top of the line during beta.
I'm not saying this is an excuse but it is how it is, plus giving players for beta the high res client would mean they have to download 2 or 3 times more information which just seems pointless when they're only intent is to get the gameplay working.
EA's Second Quarter ends on September 30 there's more than 'a couple of months' to go for WAR.
oh and i know that is their fiscal quarter 2 but considering game stop says Sept 10th it just makes me believe that their pushbacks deadlines aren't for us but for investors / money peeps.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Ahhh, so they weren't referring to the U.S 2nd quarter? Is there anything out there that confirms this?
This whole time I figuried games release dates posted on MMORPG were based on the United States Calendar..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)