omfg, 30 mins play a day is NOT considered ultra casual? Your an 'addic' if you play more? Why on earth are you actually playing an MMORPG at all? These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged? No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter.
Well, that's one view.
Personally I applaud their use of their time and "only" playing 30 minutes per day. Sometimes I only play LOTRO for that much. Sometimes longer.
I think that people who feel that a game requires incredible amounts of time out of their real lives are probably missing the point of games. Or at least of casual game. I also think that people might feel that MMOS are "going down the sh*tter" because they are judging casual games like games that suck up all your free time.
There is more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen for hours on end and talking on a microphone or a chat channel. you might not see it but then again you might not value those "other things".
Quite frankly, I think the players who keep a real balance in their lives between gaming and actually "doing things (whether that is playing sports, being with friends and going to dinner, going to concerts, plays, movies, Doing Art, composing, working on Carpentry, etc) are probably, in the end, the more interesting people.
Because then one could come back with "omg, spending hours and hours each day playing online games! No wonder Society is going down the sh*tter!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I like LOTR the way it is. New content to explore is always welcome but please, no pvp. PVP posturing loot monkey PK bragging morons is one of the main reasons I quit WoW.
I do not live on a video game. I did for about a year and a half and realized wtf, so now I limit my play time to a few hours a night after my son goes to bed. I am tired of comparisons being made between so called hard core and casual, like one side are the uber leet and the other is nothing but nubs. Time available to play has nothing to do with skill. A friend of mine only logs on to raid in his game of choice, and he kicks ass.
I am tired of RPGs being turned into glorified action adventure games. I can't find a group irl for good ol tabletop anymore so being online in mmorpgs is as close as I can get and I know i am not the only old fogey out there who feels this way.
I play for story, for adventure, to explore, to raid, to develop my character into it's own personality. I like the rpg part of mmo and nothing ruins it worse than the jibber jabber of gamers talking pseudo leet speak and turning every channel into Barrens Chat. That is something I love about the server I am on in LOTR because when that crap starts, people are told WoW is one game over, leave now, k thanks.
PvP I have found is about one upping another person, finding loop holes, and hell even botting it for easy loots, and then being a dick about it. It feeds the stereotypical male psyche and bring out the worst in people. Pvp draws in more ego feeding jerks than honorable players, it is like a poison that seeps through a game.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I have strong opinions about a few gaming issues, and pvp is one of them, i hate it, and maybe those who get bored and run out of things to do aren't so uber, but actually need to find something to do offline to suppliment their time.
Devs can only do so much, it is ultimately your life, spend it wisely.
To reiterate, I did NOT say EVERYONE WHO PVPS is like this, I just found it to be the norm in most cases in my gaming experience.
Please do not reply with "If you don't like it, don't do it.," It isn't enough. The mentality comes with the gamer and seeps into the game, very similar to the snobbish elite attitudes raiders get when they are at a certain level of progression.
omfg, 30 mins play a day is NOT considered ultra casual? Your an 'addic' if you play more? Why on earth are you actually playing an MMORPG at all? These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged? No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter.
Well, that's one view.
Personally I applaud their use of their time and "only" playing 30 minutes per day. Sometimes I only play LOTRO for that much. Sometimes longer.
I think that people who feel that a game requires incredible amounts of time out of their real lives are probably missing the point of games. Or at least of casual game. I also think that people might feel that MMOS are "going down the sh*tter" because they are judging casual games like games that suck up all your free time.
There is more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen for hours on end and talking on a microphone or a chat channel. you might not see it but then again you might not value those "other things".
Quite frankly, I think the players who keep a real balance in their lives between gaming and actually "doing things (whether that is playing sports, being with friends and going to dinner, going to concerts, plays, movies, Doing Art, composing, working on Carpentry, etc) are probably, in the end, the more interesting people.
Because then one could come back with "omg, spending hours and hours each day playing online games! No wonder Society is going down the sh*tter!
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game?
Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor?
Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it?
I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual.
Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou?
The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
I so hope that Turbine will stay true to their concept. This concept made about every hardcore-lol-look-my-ub0r-gear-my-kinship-all-got-full-scale-full-blown-rift-set-lolol-guy leave. Please, why do you still bother to play this game.
Leave! For god's sake. Turbine spends an endless amount of time in implementing roleplay and socialising features. Why do you think is that? - RIGHT, it's because this is not an achiever's game. It never was and hopefully, it never will be. Sure, let them add new content, but keep it a nice, balanced experience. Like the rift, challenging, but with the possibility to master even for the worst-equipped casual player.
You PvP and achiever guys have dozens of games out there that require dedication and planning; where you can raid for the next best item nobody else has and have your 5 minutes of fame at meeting place XYZ. Don't try to force LotRO into this...
I do not see the point in arguing over how many hours a day or a week. Its personal and circumstantial. There were months in my life I play 24/7, b/c of involvement at home that kept me indoor for hours idle (looking after a sick person). LOTRo kept me going during the long waiting hours.
There were months like the past year I never log on a game, actually, no game installed not even a SP. B/c I just do not have time to sit down gaming. I browse here to kill the fractions of minutes I am idle, but that is hardly enough to load up a game.
So for each his own. For me, a game is good when I feel like going on. When I think its time to go, I go. I do not need a clock to tell me its time to go. Nor do I need to follow any definition of casual players and play like that.
Yeah I did burn thru LOTRo too fast, and ruined a game designed for slower playing, so that each new chapter rekindles the fire. Too bad. PVP was never my favourite, and with LOTRo not designed for RVRs, it would be the lore and Tolkien that will oil the game. I have my moments of bliss, and now moments of memory to cherish. Yes I know about CD about all the places to go after 50. I just burnt myself out and need a long long long break to recover.
omfg, 30 mins play a day is NOT considered ultra casual? Your an 'addic' if you play more? Why on earth are you actually playing an MMORPG at all? These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged? No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter.
In short:
Get a life, dude.
Anyone with a job+family+kidz (garden, pets, you name it) is happy to have 30 minutes a day *on average* to play. I haven't, don't and won't want to "build up friendships, social networks and game knowledge" in an MMO.
They are GAMES for chrissake, not your alternative lives. If you want all that is missing from your real life to build up in a virtual world, go "play" second life, or for that matter, EVE online.
Everyone has different preferences, and your is only one of them, just like mine.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game? Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor? Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it? I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual. Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou? The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
Ok, your first post was just childish, but this one is flatout frightening.
You have a serious issue with accepting the facts of real life.
MMO's are made for PROFIT.
People play for FUN.
Profit can only mean 1 thing, but FUN can mean a lot of things for different people, if some player want a life substitute or compensate MMO achievements with lack of IRL achievements, they will also find their MMO (LOTRO is not that one).
There are way more people in this world who don't have a whole life to donate to be the "elite" that you are describing, than those who have. You can keep insulting the majority, but developers won't care, as they are getting a living out of the casual majority. Better learn to live with it, or you will just spin yourself even more to this mindless rage you are frothing out of your posts.... just an advice!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
It amusing reading about all you constantly complaining about "end-game this and end-game that" You ever stop to think that the game wasn't designed to have end-game. If you happened to noticed while playing through the game....it was the adventure getting to lvl 50 that was the best part!
The reason I see very little end-game content is understandable. With all the content and story that is left in the LOTR lore yet to add, putting in mass amounts of crappy end-game gear farming is a horrible idea. Once the next expansion opens the world and you can continue deeper into Middle Earth, there will be new armor and weps, and tons more content to explore, places to see, mobs to slaughter.
Why copy all other MMOs with the dumb idea of gear farming, just to have it all be obsolete and worthless in the next expansion. I love love love LOTRO for making crafted gear better and/or equal to the raid drops....raiding for gear is a pointless waste of time!
Yes getting the Beryl Shards for that gear is a bitch sometimes, Yes some tiers of crafting are a pain in the ass and the grind can be annoying at times. Anyway I forgot where I was going with this.....Fuck the raiding for gear end-game-boring-shit!
Its all about the adventures, and friends you meet along the way!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
It amusing reading about all you constantly complaining about "end-game this and end-game that" You ever stop to think that the game wasn't designed to have end-game. If you happened to noticed while playing through the game....it was the adventure getting to lvl 50 that was the best part! The reason I see very little end-game content is understandable. With all the content and story that is left in the LOTR lore yet to add, putting in mass amounts of crappy end-game gear farming is a horrible idea. Once the next expansion opens the world and you can continue deeper into Middle Earth, there will be new armor and weps, and tons more content to explore, places to see, mobs to slaughter. Why copy all other MMOs with the dumb idea of gear farming, just to have it all be obsolete and worthless in the next expansion. I love love love LOTRO for making crafted gear better and/or equal to the raid drops....raiding for gear is a pointless waste of time! Yes getting the Beryl Shards for that gear is a bitch sometimes, Yes some tiers of crafting are a pain in the ass and the grind can be annoying at times. Anyway I forgot where I was going with this.....Fuck the raiding for gear end-game-boring-shit! Its all about the adventures, and friends you meet along the way!
Ive said time and time again the main difference between the old school gamers, and the new school gamers is this; Old school gamers realize that its the journey thats important. New school gamers want to rush to max level, they want instant gratification, and focus on the end, instead of said journey.
This mindset has unfortunately ruined the MMO genre, as it now caters to the wants of the newer players.
You can race to the finish line, I prefer to enjoy the scenery on the way there, and you know what? I think Ill be the one getting more enjoyment for a longer period of time.
Ive said time and time again the main difference between the old school gamers, and the new school gamers is this; Old school gamers realize that its the journey thats important. New school gamers want to rush to max level, they want instant gratification, and focus on the end, instead of said journey.
This mindset has unfortunately ruined the MMO genre, as it now caters to the wants of the newer players. You can race to the finish line, I prefer to enjoy the scenery on the way there, and you know what? I think Ill be the one getting more enjoyment for a longer period of time.
Agreed.
Almost the exact sentiments I posted in advocating for death penalties (not that I necessarily assume we would agree on that, either).
Ive said time and time again the main difference between the old school gamers, and the new school gamers is this; Old school gamers realize that its the journey thats important. New school gamers want to rush to max level, they want instant gratification, and focus on the end, instead of said journey.
This mindset has unfortunately ruined the MMO genre, as it now caters to the wants of the newer players. You can race to the finish line, I prefer to enjoy the scenery on the way there, and you know what? I think Ill be the one getting more enjoyment for a longer period of time.
Agreed.
Almost the exact sentiments I posted in advocating for death penalties (not that I necessarily assume we would agree on that, either).
MMMmmmm, me loves a very harsh death penalty!
Old-school gamer for life here! Screw all this new easy-mode crap! Granted though, I admit LOTRO isn't hard at all, but the storyline and adventures throughout are amazing and well worth the trip many times!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
Problem is that hardcore players mostly dont relise there hardcore. Thay consider themself casual, cuz somehow thay dont like the word hardcore, and elements attached to it, belief me if you play a videogame up to 3 hours a day yes then you 100% hardcore in playtime whether you like it or not. im not saying your an addic, im saying your dedication to a videogame is hardcore.
I also agree whit the above posters that the endgame is not inportant, you play the game up to 50 and then move on and continue afther the exspansion, but i realy hate all these pointless gearraids. theres no point in endgame in an mmo, its the journey that counts. but the new gamers sadly want games these days to last forever, well thay dont last forever, the only reason there is endgame, is to keep you doing the same thing over and over aigan, and keep the hardcore gamers to pay there mountly fee. Look at world of warcraft, thay have like 10 difrent raiding instance...only to keep people doing the same thing over and over aigan...why? to keep them addicted, and paying there mountly fee, and once the content runs out afther a year thay start complaining that it suddenly is a horrible game... Well if you play a game for over mounths then its not horrible! why the hell would you els be playing it? You just think its horrible becouse your bored and got nothing els to do anymore well BOOHOO! COME TO YOUR SENSES...
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
omfg, 30 mins play a day is NOT considered ultra casual? Your an 'addic' if you play more? Why on earth are you actually playing an MMORPG at all? These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged? No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter.
In short:
Get a life, dude.
Anyone with a job+family+kidz (garden, pets, you name it) is happy to have 30 minutes a day *on average* to play. I haven't, don't and won't want to "build up friendships, social networks and game knowledge" in an MMO.
They are GAMES for chrissake, not your alternative lives. If you want all that is missing from your real life to build up in a virtual world, go "play" second life, or for that matter, EVE online.
Everyone has different preferences, and your is only one of them, just like mine.
DB
'Dude', you assume too much.
I have all those things, In short, I have a life, even by your limited defintion. Personally, I don't judge people who don't have these stereotyped 'achievements' not having a 'life'. To judge how other people choose to live in such a arrogant way is beyond me.
I don't seek to find anything 'missing' from life in a game, I seek to enhance it with investing in a hobby and meeting like minded people to have fun with inside that hobby, the same way as I do with a couple of other hobbies I have. I am sorry you cannot see beyond your blinkered existance to understand that.
I will repeat again for the slow people out there, because this seems to be the day for them. My points are;
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition.
2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due.
3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads.
Absolutely. It clarifies that your lack of seeing things from an outsider, objective point of view (different tastes for different people) is fueled by the biggest junk of arrogance I have ever seen on these boards. Your pust truly speaks for itself.
Again, for the arrogant minded: you are in no way in a position to decide, what kind of playing is good for who, and why, and what "value" due players represent in MMO's. Labels like "ultra-casual" don't mean crap. I sometimes play 3-4 hours in one day, but then again, I might not play for 2 weeks, since there are a thousand things in life to do besides sitting in front of a monitor . It is not better or worse than playing 24/7: but it is certainly different!
I have never told you or anyone advices on how to live our own lives, I don't think anyone is entitled to do that for other people. Where you're completely mistaken, is the weird argument of casual players "should be thankful for hardcore community forming gamers for whatever reason", and of course, anyone not having their half their virtual friends communities in virtual worlds are only "wallpaper". If you are labeling people you don't even know so arrogantly and rudely, prepare to be countered and debated. If you can only get more upset and even more aggressive, you might consider ignoring our postst....
I certainly will do this to yours....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
If your going to ignore my posts from now, thats great. You won't mind if I respond to yours then?
Absolutely. It clarifies that your lack of seeing things from an outsider, objective point of view (different tastes for different people) is fueled by the biggest junk of arrogance I have ever seen on these boards. Your pust truly speaks for itself.
By saying that 30 mins is ultra casual?
By saying that ultra casual lite players should actually respect those that give these worlds some substance instead of making them out to be social freaks 'with no life'?
Are you sure you know the meaning of the word 'objective' btw? You seem to be using it when it has no relevance.
Again, for the arrogant minded: you are in no way in a position to decide, what kind of playing is good for who, and why, and what "value" due players represent in MMO's.
Again, you fail to get it, and in doing so tag on what you WANT me to be saying, rather then what I am ACTUALLY saying to my points to wring an argument from it.
I havent claimed to decide anything for anyone. I have (once again... /sigh) made the points that 30 mins a day is ultra casual and that these players should give the more dedicated players some respect for sustaining these worlds when you guys are off watching your soaps.
Labels like "ultra-casual" don't mean crap.
Well, actually they do when we are discussing MMORPGs and the players that play them.
I sometimes play 3-4 hours in one day, but then again, I might not play for 2 weeks, since there are a thousand things in life to do besides sitting in front of a monitor . It is not better or worse than playing 24/7: but it is certainly different!
Who has ever advocated playing 24/7 in this discussion? Take time to reread if you need to... Oh, I forgot, you are ignoring my posts from now right?
Why do you keep trying to take my points to extremes so that it matches your cut n paste arguments?
The truth is my play style is pretty much the same as yours, but the difference is that I recognise the contribution of the more dedicated community and give them the respect they deserve. This genre wouldnt even exist without those that play this way, and yet the new generation of solo casual lite arcade gamer seems to think it is now their right to toddle along and demand everything is too hard! It requires too much time! It requires that I build up social networks! I want to do and see everything in MTV sized chunks! I want as much as the next guy, but, in short, I want it without earning it and I want it now!
It's tragic tbh.
This has nothing to do with with raiding, nothing to do with being 'leet', but has everything to do with the life the more dedicated players bring to these games. You just seem to be burnt up with envy at them, sinking to calling them 'no lives' in an obvious attempt to peer pressure others into playing the same way as you do because you lack the will or ability to play the game on their field.
I have never told you or anyone advices on how to live our own lives, I don't think anyone is entitled to do that for other people.
Erm... well, yes you you did.
You stated that anyone who didnt live the same way as you do (wife, kids, pets, 39 hour job, whatever) has 'no life'.
You have actually been very judgemental as to how others live while being very insulting and dismissive to those that don't tick your little boxes of a 'life'.
Where you're completely mistaken, is the weird argument of casual players "should be thankful for hardcore community forming gamers for whatever reason", and of course, anyone not having their half their virtual friends communities in virtual worlds are only "wallpaper".
I stand by this point of view.
Ultra casual lite players who dip in and out of MMORPGs add nothing to the 'soul' of the game. The are indeed just moving wallpaper as they move about the game world soloing their way up the levels, not communicating or interacting with the other people around them. Great for them, terrible for the game. I don't say they shouldnt play this way, not at all, they pay their subs and can do what they like, I just say they should stop being so rude to the 'no lifers' who give these games substance.
If you are labeling people you don't even know so arrogantly and rudely, prepare to be countered and debated.
I am prepared... when I have I acted like I wasnt prepared. I have yet to be effectively countered or debated yet though in a non contradictory way...
If you can only get more upset and even more aggressive, you might consider ignoring our postst....
Stop trying to push the buttons of someone you don't even know.
This isnt anger or aggression. this is just straight talk without the spin you seem to such a fan of. I am sorry if you are unused to it...
I will try and tone it down for the more sensitive amongst us.
Originally posted by stunna182 I have played lotro since open beta and now have a 50 hunter. My kinship has finished all end game content and has geared every one of our players in full rift armor for about a month now. This game has sooo much potential its crazy. The graphics are amazing, the deed system and titles are pretty cool, and the end game raids are fun. But of course this game lacks a severe amount of content. I am to the point of canceling my subscription because of the lack of pvp and overall content it offers. I am hoping turbine is gonna come through with an all new expansion with new raids overhauled pvp and SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY DO. People have nothing left to accomplish in this game once they finish all the content which quite honestly doesn't take very long. The PVP in this game stinks. It's almost the point of calling it non-existent. The ettenmoor's is a great idea but my god open world pvp is where its at and what people consistently ask for in mmo's. A playable race of orcs they say doesnt fit in with what they want to accomplish with this game . Now I know that idea has been thrown out there but lets see turbine dare to dream and give the people what they want and something called content for a game that could be one of the best mmo's on the market. It can compete with AoC and WAR when they come out if they give this game what it needs a major content add and pvp overhaul.
translation = Conan is coming out soon and I need to justify my MMO hop
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition. 2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due. 3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads. I hope this clarifies things a little.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment.
2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition. 2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due. 3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads. I hope this clarifies things a little.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment. I agree mostly -- furthermore, find this labeing thingy quite childish, in some cases straightout moronic.
2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. 100% agree.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim. Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself, is totally plausible due to individual taste. I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players (those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.) Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves), I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste, and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If there is anything I feel grateful for, are the developers of all the games I every played and loved, starting back from the C64 era up to today... and Turbine is only one of them
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition. 2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due. 3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads. I hope this clarifies things a little.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment.
lol.. ok... Personally I see, in MMORPG terms, 7-10 hours a week as casual. Anything below that for me definitly falls into the utlra-casual bracket. 30 mins a day? It takes me that long to say hello to the people (both game friends and RL friends) I play with... RIP MMORPGs, all hail their bastard son, the Solo Online Arcade Game, right? 2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. Eh? What? lol I don't think you even understood the point I was making, so I won't bother trying to debate this nonsense. 3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games... I have a GF and a daughter, I grow my own food, hold down a full time job, walk my very energetic staffie, play D&D once a week with old friends, read a lot... why would you, based on what I have posted but which you seem to choose to ignore, assume I don't have an understanding of any of this? Is it just it suited your point better that way? BTW, you do actually realise that by playing 2 (/gasp!) hours a day, you are one of the 'hardcore' players that the ultra-casual lite players hate so much?
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition. 2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due. 3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads. I hope this clarifies things a little.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment. I agree mostly -- furthermore, find this labeing thingy quite childish, in some cases straightout moronic.
Ahh... now we are here... I was wondering how long it would take you. Instead of being able to actually discuss the views, I would guess because you don't have any responses that won't make you contradict yourself even further, that have been put to you in a clear and concise way, you are now down to name calling. Thats quite.. erm.. well.. childish? Moronic? 2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. 100% agree. With what? lol He didnt say anything... 3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim.
Well, once more, your arnt making a lot of sense here.
Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself,
If you mean going so grey and mainstream that they destroy everything that made these games special in the first place in order to try create games that have horrible mass appeal, It's a bad thing.
is totally plausible due to individual taste.
This dosent make sense. again.
I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players
The why do ultra casual lite players insist on whining on every baord against the so called 'hardcore' play style?
Why do they trawl the boards accusing people of having 'no life' or whatever if they dare to play more then you do?
(those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.)
Good lord.. you are doing it again... ignoring what actually has been said in favour of what you want to be said...
Noone in this thread condoned playing 24/7.
Noone said they wanted to 'find their life' in virtual worlds.
Noone said they wanted to grief, or compete, or etc...
Your debate style seems to be to just make up the other persons argument for them and answer it according to a pre formed set of sentences.... Please, show me you at least have read and tried to understand what is being said, without just making cr*p up.
Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves),
lol I couldnt care less about LotR... It's a beige porridgy soulless excuse of a game with fugly character models to me... probably the worst MMORPG I have played. The only good part of it is the lore, and.. well.. Turbine can hardly take credit for that right?
If this is the game you are offering as an example the good future that has been bought to us by the rise of the ultra-casual player, then you are welcome to it.
I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste,
No, you don't.
You have dismissed and insulted them them as having 'no life'.
Stop trying to re-invent your earlier posts.
and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate
/sigh... trying to insult me again due to lack of ability to actually uphold your view?
Bad form.
and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
I never once said this. Where did you get this from?
No, the MMO market will live. Once again you are trying to put words in my mouth based on what you want me to be saying, rather then what I am actually saying.
My point is that it will live on as a mere shadow of what it could have been.
Thats actually what is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If you hadnt/ didnt have these players then you wouldnt have had the market that broke these games, or the market that sustains them when the ultra-casual player has gone off chasing the next shiney shiney.
/looks around for a crayon to draw a picture and make this easier to get...
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition. 2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due. 3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads. I hope this clarifies things a little.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment. I agree mostly -- furthermore, find this labeing thingy quite childish, in some cases straightout moronic.
2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. 100% agree.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim. Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself, is totally plausible due to individual taste. I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players (those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.) Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves), I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste, and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If there is anything I feel grateful for, are the developers of all the games I every played and loved, starting back from the C64 era up to today... and Turbine is only one of them
DB
Strange, I've always been of the standpoint of respecting all the people I play with. I am also very greatful for the other people playing them. Note that I said 'playing' not paying, you see it's not enough for an mmo to simply be funded and exist. A prerequisite of an mmo imo would be people playing for more than 30 minutes at a time.
There are sp games that are far superior in just about all gameplay features that I could play, I don't because I like to play with other people. 'I' just don't see how it can be rewarding to play an mmorpg in half hour chunks, however 'I' don't need to. But if games start catering to that at the detriment of those that can organise their time better then I may as well be playing sp, no?
In short, 30 minutes a day is 'ultra' casual (the labeling btw was started by the guy stating he could only play 30 minutes a day) If this is as you seem to imply the future of the mmo then it will rip. Even those only playing 30 minutes at a time aren't going to want to play in a world like that.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Strange, I've always been of the standpoint of respecting all the people I play with. I am also very greatful for the other people playing them. Note that I said 'playing' not paying, you see it's not enough for an mmo to simply be funded and exist. A prerequisite of an mmo imo would be people playing for more than 30 minutes at a time.
There are sp games that are far superior in just about all gameplay features that I could play, I don't because I like to play with other people. 'I' just don't see how it can be rewarding to play an mmorpg in half hour chunks, however 'I' don't need to. But if games start catering to that at the detriment of those that can organise their time better then I may as well be playing sp, no? In short, 30 minutes a day is 'ultra' casual (the labeling btw was started by the guy stating he could only play 30 minutes a day) If this is as you seem to imply the future of the mmo then it will rip. Even those only playing 30 minutes at a time aren't going to want to play in a world like that.
People are entitled to play exactly as much time in an MMO as they wish to, as long as they pay the monthly fee. Be it 5 minutes per week or 25 hours a day. People should grow up and understand - everyone is entitled to be respected on the same level, regardless of the amount of time they spend in an MMO.
Also, their opinion is just equally "justified" as anybody else's. I know I will be personally attacked and categorized again with a lot of spinoffs and made-up ideas by some green troll here, (I'm glad to visit these forums, at least now I know that I have a wife+kids (never met them tho), play only 30 minutes a day (wish i could go down to that level one day , etc etc.
People here (and not only here) are stuck so much in their own ideas and imagination that it scares the crap out of more liberal (open-minded, grownup if you prefer) people sometimes.... why is it so hard to imagine that one can have a word for *other* people, than for his own self-fed ego?
And no, it will not "rip".... as long as they make money earned for someone - which they very well do.
DB
(Oh, and on the sidepoint of twisting words: as I said I will respect everyone in the game around me as long as they do the same for me. But to respect anyone for having more time/energy to push into any game than myself - that is just ridiculous. That won't make anyone respectful, or a target of envy - sorry if I keep breaking bubbles here).
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game? Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor? Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it? I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual. Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou? The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game? Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor? Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it? I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual. Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou? The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.
Comments
Well, that's one view.
Personally I applaud their use of their time and "only" playing 30 minutes per day. Sometimes I only play LOTRO for that much. Sometimes longer.
I think that people who feel that a game requires incredible amounts of time out of their real lives are probably missing the point of games. Or at least of casual game. I also think that people might feel that MMOS are "going down the sh*tter" because they are judging casual games like games that suck up all your free time.
There is more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen for hours on end and talking on a microphone or a chat channel. you might not see it but then again you might not value those "other things".
Quite frankly, I think the players who keep a real balance in their lives between gaming and actually "doing things (whether that is playing sports, being with friends and going to dinner, going to concerts, plays, movies, Doing Art, composing, working on Carpentry, etc) are probably, in the end, the more interesting people.
Because then one could come back with "omg, spending hours and hours each day playing online games! No wonder Society is going down the sh*tter!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I like LOTR the way it is. New content to explore is always welcome but please, no pvp. PVP posturing loot monkey PK bragging morons is one of the main reasons I quit WoW.
I do not live on a video game. I did for about a year and a half and realized wtf, so now I limit my play time to a few hours a night after my son goes to bed. I am tired of comparisons being made between so called hard core and casual, like one side are the uber leet and the other is nothing but nubs. Time available to play has nothing to do with skill. A friend of mine only logs on to raid in his game of choice, and he kicks ass.
I am tired of RPGs being turned into glorified action adventure games. I can't find a group irl for good ol tabletop anymore so being online in mmorpgs is as close as I can get and I know i am not the only old fogey out there who feels this way.
I play for story, for adventure, to explore, to raid, to develop my character into it's own personality. I like the rpg part of mmo and nothing ruins it worse than the jibber jabber of gamers talking pseudo leet speak and turning every channel into Barrens Chat. That is something I love about the server I am on in LOTR because when that crap starts, people are told WoW is one game over, leave now, k thanks.
PvP I have found is about one upping another person, finding loop holes, and hell even botting it for easy loots, and then being a dick about it. It feeds the stereotypical male psyche and bring out the worst in people. Pvp draws in more ego feeding jerks than honorable players, it is like a poison that seeps through a game.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I have strong opinions about a few gaming issues, and pvp is one of them, i hate it, and maybe those who get bored and run out of things to do aren't so uber, but actually need to find something to do offline to suppliment their time.
Devs can only do so much, it is ultimately your life, spend it wisely.
To reiterate, I did NOT say EVERYONE WHO PVPS is like this, I just found it to be the norm in most cases in my gaming experience.
Please do not reply with "If you don't like it, don't do it.," It isn't enough. The mentality comes with the gamer and seeps into the game, very similar to the snobbish elite attitudes raiders get when they are at a certain level of progression.
but that is a post for another day...
Well, that's one view.
Personally I applaud their use of their time and "only" playing 30 minutes per day. Sometimes I only play LOTRO for that much. Sometimes longer.
I think that people who feel that a game requires incredible amounts of time out of their real lives are probably missing the point of games. Or at least of casual game. I also think that people might feel that MMOS are "going down the sh*tter" because they are judging casual games like games that suck up all your free time.
There is more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen for hours on end and talking on a microphone or a chat channel. you might not see it but then again you might not value those "other things".
Quite frankly, I think the players who keep a real balance in their lives between gaming and actually "doing things (whether that is playing sports, being with friends and going to dinner, going to concerts, plays, movies, Doing Art, composing, working on Carpentry, etc) are probably, in the end, the more interesting people.
Because then one could come back with "omg, spending hours and hours each day playing online games! No wonder Society is going down the sh*tter!
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game?
Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor?
Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it?
I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual.
Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou?
The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
I so hope that Turbine will stay true to their concept. This concept made about every hardcore-lol-look-my-ub0r-gear-my-kinship-all-got-full-scale-full-blown-rift-set-lolol-guy leave. Please, why do you still bother to play this game.
Leave! For god's sake. Turbine spends an endless amount of time in implementing roleplay and socialising features. Why do you think is that? - RIGHT, it's because this is not an achiever's game. It never was and hopefully, it never will be. Sure, let them add new content, but keep it a nice, balanced experience. Like the rift, challenging, but with the possibility to master even for the worst-equipped casual player.
You PvP and achiever guys have dozens of games out there that require dedication and planning; where you can raid for the next best item nobody else has and have your 5 minutes of fame at meeting place XYZ. Don't try to force LotRO into this...
Meridion
I do not see the point in arguing over how many hours a day or a week. Its personal and circumstantial. There were months in my life I play 24/7, b/c of involvement at home that kept me indoor for hours idle (looking after a sick person). LOTRo kept me going during the long waiting hours.
There were months like the past year I never log on a game, actually, no game installed not even a SP. B/c I just do not have time to sit down gaming. I browse here to kill the fractions of minutes I am idle, but that is hardly enough to load up a game.
So for each his own. For me, a game is good when I feel like going on. When I think its time to go, I go. I do not need a clock to tell me its time to go. Nor do I need to follow any definition of casual players and play like that.
Yeah I did burn thru LOTRo too fast, and ruined a game designed for slower playing, so that each new chapter rekindles the fire. Too bad. PVP was never my favourite, and with LOTRo not designed for RVRs, it would be the lore and Tolkien that will oil the game. I have my moments of bliss, and now moments of memory to cherish. Yes I know about CD about all the places to go after 50. I just burnt myself out and need a long long long break to recover.
Get a life, dude.
Anyone with a job+family+kidz (garden, pets, you name it) is happy to have 30 minutes a day *on average* to play. I haven't, don't and won't want to "build up friendships, social networks and game knowledge" in an MMO.
They are GAMES for chrissake, not your alternative lives. If you want all that is missing from your real life to build up in a virtual world, go "play" second life, or for that matter, EVE online.
Everyone has different preferences, and your is only one of them, just like mine.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
LOL So true
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
You have a serious issue with accepting the facts of real life.
MMO's are made for PROFIT.
People play for FUN.
Profit can only mean 1 thing, but FUN can mean a lot of things for different people, if some player want a life substitute or compensate MMO achievements with lack of IRL achievements, they will also find their MMO (LOTRO is not that one).
There are way more people in this world who don't have a whole life to donate to be the "elite" that you are describing, than those who have. You can keep insulting the majority, but developers won't care, as they are getting a living out of the casual majority. Better learn to live with it, or you will just spin yourself even more to this mindless rage you are frothing out of your posts.... just an advice!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
It amusing reading about all you constantly complaining about "end-game this and end-game that" You ever stop to think that the game wasn't designed to have end-game. If you happened to noticed while playing through the game....it was the adventure getting to lvl 50 that was the best part!
The reason I see very little end-game content is understandable. With all the content and story that is left in the LOTR lore yet to add, putting in mass amounts of crappy end-game gear farming is a horrible idea. Once the next expansion opens the world and you can continue deeper into Middle Earth, there will be new armor and weps, and tons more content to explore, places to see, mobs to slaughter.
Why copy all other MMOs with the dumb idea of gear farming, just to have it all be obsolete and worthless in the next expansion. I love love love LOTRO for making crafted gear better and/or equal to the raid drops....raiding for gear is a pointless waste of time!
Yes getting the Beryl Shards for that gear is a bitch sometimes, Yes some tiers of crafting are a pain in the ass and the grind can be annoying at times. Anyway I forgot where I was going with this.....Fuck the raiding for gear end-game-boring-shit!
Its all about the adventures, and friends you meet along the way!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
This mindset has unfortunately ruined the MMO genre, as it now caters to the wants of the newer players.
You can race to the finish line, I prefer to enjoy the scenery on the way there, and you know what? I think Ill be the one getting more enjoyment for a longer period of time.
Almost the exact sentiments I posted in advocating for death penalties (not that I necessarily assume we would agree on that, either).
Almost the exact sentiments I posted in advocating for death penalties (not that I necessarily assume we would agree on that, either).
MMMmmmm, me loves a very harsh death penalty!
Old-school gamer for life here! Screw all this new easy-mode crap! Granted though, I admit LOTRO isn't hard at all, but the storyline and adventures throughout are amazing and well worth the trip many times!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
Problem is that hardcore players mostly dont relise there hardcore. Thay consider themself casual, cuz somehow thay dont like the word hardcore, and elements attached to it, belief me if you play a videogame up to 3 hours a day yes then you 100% hardcore in playtime whether you like it or not. im not saying your an addic, im saying your dedication to a videogame is hardcore.
I also agree whit the above posters that the endgame is not inportant, you play the game up to 50 and then move on and continue afther the exspansion, but i realy hate all these pointless gearraids. theres no point in endgame in an mmo, its the journey that counts. but the new gamers sadly want games these days to last forever, well thay dont last forever, the only reason there is endgame, is to keep you doing the same thing over and over aigan, and keep the hardcore gamers to pay there mountly fee. Look at world of warcraft, thay have like 10 difrent raiding instance...only to keep people doing the same thing over and over aigan...why? to keep them addicted, and paying there mountly fee, and once the content runs out afther a year thay start complaining that it suddenly is a horrible game...
Well if you play a game for over mounths then its not horrible! why the hell would you els be playing it? You just think its horrible becouse your bored and got nothing els to do anymore well BOOHOO! COME TO YOUR SENSES...
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Get a life, dude.
Anyone with a job+family+kidz (garden, pets, you name it) is happy to have 30 minutes a day *on average* to play. I haven't, don't and won't want to "build up friendships, social networks and game knowledge" in an MMO.
They are GAMES for chrissake, not your alternative lives. If you want all that is missing from your real life to build up in a virtual world, go "play" second life, or for that matter, EVE online.
Everyone has different preferences, and your is only one of them, just like mine.
DB
'Dude', you assume too much.
I have all those things, In short, I have a life, even by your limited defintion. Personally, I don't judge people who don't have these stereotyped 'achievements' not having a 'life'. To judge how other people choose to live in such a arrogant way is beyond me.
I don't seek to find anything 'missing' from life in a game, I seek to enhance it with investing in a hobby and meeting like minded people to have fun with inside that hobby, the same way as I do with a couple of other hobbies I have. I am sorry you cannot see beyond your blinkered existance to understand that.
I will repeat again for the slow people out there, because this seems to be the day for them. My points are;
1) Playing for 30 mins a day is definitly ultra casual. I don't see the problem with accepting that as a definition.
2) Ultra casual players should be thanking the more dedicated players for pioneering and sustaining these games instead of trying to make them out to be some kind of social freaks or something. It just smacks of jealousy to me to be honest and a little respect for those that actually bother to build these worlds the ultr casual so loves to dip into is due.
3) With their demands of instant gratification that they can achieve in 30 minute a day chunks playing solo, the new generation of ultra casual gamer is why all current MMORPGs are terrible soulless experiences the are compared to the first generation games. They are the real reason why these boards are full of 'Why do MMORPGs these days suck' etc threads.
I hope this clarifies things a little.
Absolutely. It clarifies that your lack of seeing things from an outsider, objective point of view (different tastes for different people) is fueled by the biggest junk of arrogance I have ever seen on these boards. Your pust truly speaks for itself.
Again, for the arrogant minded: you are in no way in a position to decide, what kind of playing is good for who, and why, and what "value" due players represent in MMO's. Labels like "ultra-casual" don't mean crap. I sometimes play 3-4 hours in one day, but then again, I might not play for 2 weeks, since there are a thousand things in life to do besides sitting in front of a monitor
. It is not better or worse than playing 24/7: but it is certainly different!
I have never told you or anyone advices on how to live our own lives, I don't think anyone is entitled to do that for other people. Where you're completely mistaken, is the weird argument of casual players "should be thankful for hardcore community forming gamers for whatever reason", and of course, anyone not having their half their virtual friends communities in virtual worlds are only "wallpaper". If you are labeling people you don't even know so arrogantly and rudely, prepare to be countered and debated. If you can only get more upset and even more aggressive, you might consider ignoring our postst....
I certainly will do this to yours....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
If your going to ignore my posts from now, thats great. You won't mind if I respond to yours then?
Absolutely. It clarifies that your lack of seeing things from an outsider, objective point of view (different tastes for different people) is fueled by the biggest junk of arrogance I have ever seen on these boards. Your pust truly speaks for itself.
By saying that 30 mins is ultra casual?
By saying that ultra casual lite players should actually respect those that give these worlds some substance instead of making them out to be social freaks 'with no life'?
Are you sure you know the meaning of the word 'objective' btw? You seem to be using it when it has no relevance.
Again, for the arrogant minded: you are in no way in a position to decide, what kind of playing is good for who, and why, and what "value" due players represent in MMO's.
Again, you fail to get it, and in doing so tag on what you WANT me to be saying, rather then what I am ACTUALLY saying to my points to wring an argument from it.
I havent claimed to decide anything for anyone. I have (once again... /sigh) made the points that 30 mins a day is ultra casual and that these players should give the more dedicated players some respect for sustaining these worlds when you guys are off watching your soaps.
Labels like "ultra-casual" don't mean crap.
Well, actually they do when we are discussing MMORPGs and the players that play them.
I sometimes play 3-4 hours in one day, but then again, I might not play for 2 weeks, since there are a thousand things in life to do besides sitting in front of a monitor
. It is not better or worse than playing 24/7: but it is certainly different!
Who has ever advocated playing 24/7 in this discussion? Take time to reread if you need to... Oh, I forgot, you are ignoring my posts from now right?
Why do you keep trying to take my points to extremes so that it matches your cut n paste arguments?
The truth is my play style is pretty much the same as yours, but the difference is that I recognise the contribution of the more dedicated community and give them the respect they deserve. This genre wouldnt even exist without those that play this way, and yet the new generation of solo casual lite arcade gamer seems to think it is now their right to toddle along and demand everything is too hard! It requires too much time! It requires that I build up social networks! I want to do and see everything in MTV sized chunks! I want as much as the next guy, but, in short, I want it without earning it and I want it now!
It's tragic tbh.
This has nothing to do with with raiding, nothing to do with being 'leet', but has everything to do with the life the more dedicated players bring to these games. You just seem to be burnt up with envy at them, sinking to calling them 'no lives' in an obvious attempt to peer pressure others into playing the same way as you do because you lack the will or ability to play the game on their field.
I have never told you or anyone advices on how to live our own lives, I don't think anyone is entitled to do that for other people.
Erm... well, yes you you did.
You stated that anyone who didnt live the same way as you do (wife, kids, pets, 39 hour job, whatever) has 'no life'.
You have actually been very judgemental as to how others live while being very insulting and dismissive to those that don't tick your little boxes of a 'life'.
Where you're completely mistaken, is the weird argument of casual players "should be thankful for hardcore community forming gamers for whatever reason", and of course, anyone not having their half their virtual friends communities in virtual worlds are only "wallpaper".
I stand by this point of view.
Ultra casual lite players who dip in and out of MMORPGs add nothing to the 'soul' of the game. The are indeed just moving wallpaper as they move about the game world soloing their way up the levels, not communicating or interacting with the other people around them. Great for them, terrible for the game. I don't say they shouldnt play this way, not at all, they pay their subs and can do what they like, I just say they should stop being so rude to the 'no lifers' who give these games substance.
If you are labeling people you don't even know so arrogantly and rudely, prepare to be countered and debated.
I am prepared... when I have I acted like I wasnt prepared. I have yet to be effectively countered or debated yet though in a non contradictory way...
If you can only get more upset and even more aggressive, you might consider ignoring our postst....
Stop trying to push the buttons of someone you don't even know.
This isnt anger or aggression. this is just straight talk without the spin you seem to such a fan of. I am sorry if you are unused to it...
I will try and tone it down for the more sensitive amongst us.
I certainly will do this to yours....
Ok, great.
Group hug?
DB
translation = Conan is coming out soon and I need to justify my MMO hop
2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment. I agree mostly -- furthermore, find this labeing thingy quite childish, in some cases straightout moronic.2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. 100% agree.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim. Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself, is totally plausible due to individual taste. I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players (those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.) Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves), I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste, and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If there is anything I feel grateful for, are the developers of all the games I every played and loved, starting back from the C64 era up to today... and Turbine is only one of them
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
1) Wrong. I should say that playing for 1 hour a week is ultra casual. 30 mins a day I would call casual, although for some people that might be a real commitment. I agree mostly -- furthermore, find this labeing thingy quite childish, in some cases straightout moronic.As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim.
Well, once more, your arnt making a lot of sense here.
Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself,
If you mean going so grey and mainstream that they destroy everything that made these games special in the first place in order to try create games that have horrible mass appeal, It's a bad thing.
is totally plausible due to individual taste.
This dosent make sense. again.
I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players
The why do ultra casual lite players insist on whining on every baord against the so called 'hardcore' play style?
Why do they trawl the boards accusing people of having 'no life' or whatever if they dare to play more then you do?
(those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.)
Good lord.. you are doing it again... ignoring what actually has been said in favour of what you want to be said...
Noone in this thread condoned playing 24/7.
Noone said they wanted to 'find their life' in virtual worlds.
Noone said they wanted to grief, or compete, or etc...
Your debate style seems to be to just make up the other persons argument for them and answer it according to a pre formed set of sentences.... Please, show me you at least have read and tried to understand what is being said, without just making cr*p up.
Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves),
lol I couldnt care less about LotR... It's a beige porridgy soulless excuse of a game with fugly character models to me... probably the worst MMORPG I have played. The only good part of it is the lore, and.. well.. Turbine can hardly take credit for that right?
If this is the game you are offering as an example the good future that has been bought to us by the rise of the ultra-casual player, then you are welcome to it.
I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste,
No, you don't.
You have dismissed and insulted them them as having 'no life'.
Stop trying to re-invent your earlier posts.
and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate
/sigh... trying to insult me again due to lack of ability to actually uphold your view?
Bad form.
and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
I never once said this. Where did you get this from?
No, the MMO market will live. Once again you are trying to put words in my mouth based on what you want me to be saying, rather then what I am actually saying.
My point is that it will live on as a mere shadow of what it could have been.
Thats actually what is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If you hadnt/ didnt have these players then you wouldnt have had the market that broke these games, or the market that sustains them when the ultra-casual player has gone off chasing the next shiney shiney.
/looks around for a crayon to draw a picture and make this easier to get...
2) No, the people they should be thanking are the developers, and they thank them with their subscription fees. Some of those developers are also players, but not all players are developers. 100% agree.
3) Actually, what you call the new generation is probably the old generation. I have been playing games for years, and try to fit them in when I can. Personally, I manage to fit in a couple of hours of game playing a day, but it's a squeeze at times, with job, kids etc. Until you have small kids you simply have no idea what a challenge it can be to play these games...
As for point 3: the last generation of gamers will be the vast majority of gamers, as MMOs slowly become mainstraim. Whether this does good or bad for the genre itself, is totally plausible due to individual taste. I think both the audience and the scene is wide enough to even support niche extremities of players (those who play 24/7., find their real life in alternative universes, those who love to grief or compete to extremes - etc etc.) Since LOTRO was never planned to be made for these (more and more) niche of "hardcore" players (or however they wish to label themselves), I find it perfectly fine and honest as it is, and also the way it is progressing. It was a very wise division for the developers to choose this "accessible" path.
Now, I totally respect those who have a totally or just greatly different taste, and don't enjoy LOTRO or any casual games for that matter. But to come to these boards acting as "Swords of the MMO-God", spitting hate and prohesing doom for the tendency the MMO market is going towards (money makes the world go 'round...), - well, it is kind of sad.
But it is still nothing compared to hilarous assumptions, that any player should feel anything (positive or negative, respect or envy... seriously... what???:) towards the "older" players or whoever... that is just plain ridiculous and... weird.
If there is anything I feel grateful for, are the developers of all the games I every played and loved, starting back from the C64 era up to today... and Turbine is only one of them
DB
Strange, I've always been of the standpoint of respecting all the people I play with. I am also very greatful for the other people playing them. Note that I said 'playing' not paying, you see it's not enough for an mmo to simply be funded and exist. A prerequisite of an mmo imo would be people playing for more than 30 minutes at a time.
There are sp games that are far superior in just about all gameplay features that I could play, I don't because I like to play with other people. 'I' just don't see how it can be rewarding to play an mmorpg in half hour chunks, however 'I' don't need to. But if games start catering to that at the detriment of those that can organise their time better then I may as well be playing sp, no?
In short, 30 minutes a day is 'ultra' casual (the labeling btw was started by the guy stating he could only play 30 minutes a day) If this is as you seem to imply the future of the mmo then it will rip. Even those only playing 30 minutes at a time aren't going to want to play in a world like that.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
People are entitled to play exactly as much time in an MMO as they wish to, as long as they pay the monthly fee. Be it 5 minutes per week or 25 hours a day. People should grow up and understand - everyone is entitled to be respected on the same level, regardless of the amount of time they spend in an MMO.
Also, their opinion is just equally "justified" as anybody else's. I know I will be personally attacked and categorized again with a lot of spinoffs and made-up ideas by some green troll here, (I'm glad to visit these forums, at least now I know that I have a wife+kids (never met them tho), play only 30 minutes a day (wish i could go down to that level one day
, etc etc.
People here (and not only here) are stuck so much in their own ideas and imagination that it scares the crap out of more liberal (open-minded, grownup if you prefer) people sometimes.... why is it so hard to imagine that one can have a word for *other* people, than for his own self-fed ego?
And no, it will not "rip".... as long as they make money earned for someone - which they very well do.
DB
(Oh, and on the sidepoint of twisting words: as I said I will respect everyone in the game around me as long as they do the same for me. But to respect anyone for having more time/energy to push into any game than myself - that is just ridiculous. That won't make anyone respectful, or a target of envy - sorry if I keep breaking bubbles here).
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.