Guys, we all game, for different reasons, different lengths of time, etc.
I think, in the end, we all just need to take the time to find a game that suits our own gaming needs instead of causing strife amongst our community.
I did the WoW thing, the racing to 70, the end game raiding, the farming over and over, tolerating pvper and end game raider attitudes, etc. I ended up becoming an elitist bitch and realized omfg, this is a video game.
I switched to LOTR and I like it. I am not a bitch anymore, I am not stressed out when I log on, I am enjoying the story, the endless quests, the crafting, all aspects of it.
Is LOTR better than WoW? Nah, it is just different and I like the way it is and it suits me and many others just as WoW or EVE etc, suits other people.
In real life, when we are unsatisfied with anything, we continue life's journey until we are satisfied. Consider that the next time your chosen game is no longer fun for you. Just move on.
Strange, I've always been of the standpoint of respecting all the people I play with. I am also very greatful for the other people playing them. Note that I said 'playing' not paying, you see it's not enough for an mmo to simply be funded and exist. A prerequisite of an mmo imo would be people playing for more than 30 minutes at a time.
There are sp games that are far superior in just about all gameplay features that I could play, I don't because I like to play with other people. 'I' just don't see how it can be rewarding to play an mmorpg in half hour chunks, however 'I' don't need to. But if games start catering to that at the detriment of those that can organise their time better then I may as well be playing sp, no? In short, 30 minutes a day is 'ultra' casual (the labeling btw was started by the guy stating he could only play 30 minutes a day) If this is as you seem to imply the future of the mmo then it will rip. Even those only playing 30 minutes at a time aren't going to want to play in a world like that.
Firstly, may I say that the fact that you are obviously still reading my replies and responding to them indirectly via replies to other people's posts very funny. You can't stop yourself can you? Thank you for that.
Be it 5 minutes per week or 25 hours a day. People should grow up and understand - everyone is entitled to be respected on the same level, regardless of the amount of time they spend in an MMO.
Insulting people again?
He disagrees with you... that dosent make his PoV childish.
Of course individuals deserve respect, but we are talking about achievemnts in a game here, not the human right to universal respect.
If I turned up at Wimbledon with a tennis racket and demanded to be shown the same gaming respect as the seeded players who had shown dedication, talent, and investment in their love I would be laughed out of the building.
I will leave you to figure out the rest, you will probably just reinvent or make up what I post anyhow.
Also, their opinion is just equally "justified" as anybody else's. I know I will be personally attacked and categorized again with a lot of spinoffs
Spin offs? eh? lol
and made-up ideas
Thats me is it? You need to go back and re-read my friend.
by some green troll here,
I disagree with you and I'm a troll?
Whenever you are losing a point you insult someone. Do you act like this in RL?
(I'm glad to visit these forums, at least now I know that I have a wife+kids (never met them tho), play only 30 minutes a day (wish i could go down to that level one day , etc etc.
I am sorry, but this again dosent make any sense to me...
People here (and not only here) are stuck so much in their own ideas and imagination that it scares the crap out of more liberal (open-minded, grownup if you prefer)
Thats you again is it?
Tell that to the people you accused of having 'no life' because they dare play for more then 30 mins a day...
people sometimes.... why is it so hard to imagine that one can have a word for *other* people, than for his own self-fed ego?
Some of your sentences just confuse me.
And no, it will not "rip".... as long as they make money earned for someone - which they very well do.
You see, thats where we differ again. You see these games as a success as long as they are making lots of money. I don't use that as a measure at all.
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game? Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor? Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it? I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual. Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou? The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.
Ok fair enough. I understand where you are coming from now.
And to a certain extent I do "get it" as I notice differences between my main game (lineage 2) and other games like LOTRO or even WoW.
From what I gather from more "sandbox" type games like Lineage 2 (yes, I believe it to be a sandbox pvp game because the real game takes place between the players, not the actual content) or Eve or even from what I've read of SWG, there is more going on than just take this quest and do that raid.
I remember being (at one point) in one of the top pvp alliances because some friends had joined and I wanted to hang with them for a bit. There was one siege that was of note because our alliance controlled one of the top castles and many people did not like our alliance.
I had logged into WoW for a small bit, do a quest, get some xp etc then logged into L2 for the siege.
There I was, standing amongst my clan mates and allies, preparing, knowing that we were about 24 clans or so against 29 clans. And they wanted us out. You could feel it. I got the sudden feeling that what was about to happen (which incidentally was one of the best sieges I've ever been to) had far more ingame weight than anything that I've seen in other games.
However, I can really see why people would not want to play a game like L2 or Eve because of that perceived "weight". It suddenly stops becoming casual past time and one feels the consequences of their actions more acutely.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I so hope that Turbine will stay true to their concept. This concept made about every hardcore-lol-look-my-ub0r-gear-my-kinship-all-got-full-scale-full-blown-rift-set-lolol-guy leave. Please, why do you still bother to play this game. Leave! For god's sake. Turbine spends an endless amount of time in implementing roleplay and socialising features. Why do you think is that? - RIGHT, it's because this is not an achiever's game. It never was and hopefully, it never will be. Sure, let them add new content, but keep it a nice, balanced experience. Like the rift, challenging, but with the possibility to master even for the worst-equipped casual player. You PvP and achiever guys have dozens of games out there that require dedication and planning; where you can raid for the next best item nobody else has and have your 5 minutes of fame at meeting place XYZ. Don't try to force LotRO into this... Meridion
Oh, get real and stop inventing your own arguments in order to win them. It's tragic.
Where did I advocate spending your entire life, to exlude all other interests, in a game? Where did I say there isnt more to life then sitting in front of a monitor? Why are you interpreting what I said in the most extended and ludicrous manner in order to wring a point out of it? I made the point that playing 30 mins a day is ultra casual, not casual. Why have you tagged the rest of that cr*p onto my views in order to misrepresent me and act holier-then-thou? The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.
Ok fair enough. I understand where you are coming from now.
Thank you Sov. It's refreshing.
And to a certain extent I do "get it" as I notice differences between my main game (lineage 2) and other games like LOTRO or even WoW.
From what I gather from more "sandbox" type games like Lineage 2 (yes, I believe it to be a sandbox pvp game because the real game takes place between the players, not the actual content) or Eve or even from what I've read of SWG, there is more going on than just take this quest and do that raid.
I remember being (at one point) in one of the top pvp alliances because some friends had joined and I wanted to hang with them for a bit. There was one siege that was of note because our alliance controlled one of the top castles and many people did not like our alliance.
I had logged into WoW for a small bit, do a quest, get some xp etc then logged into L2 for the siege.
There I was, standing amongst my clan mates and allies, preparing, knowing that we were about 24 clans or so against 29 clans. And they wanted us out. You could feel it. I got the sudden feeling that what was about to happen (which incidentally was one of the best sieges I've ever been to) had far more ingame weight than anything that I've seen in other games.
However, I can really see why people would not want to play a game like L2 or Eve because of that perceived "weight". It suddenly stops becoming casual past time and one feels the consequences of their actions more acutely.
Good Grief, a couple of you really need to take a break.
This is a game we are talking about.
Power levelers or people that race through content to the end and then stand there and say, I am bored, are in every game.
Everyone has different styles of gaming. The agressive and the laid back. There is no wrong or right it is your own individuality way.
I have been in LOTRO since early beta, well I just now got my main up to lvl 31. But then I just roam around and look at things and not in any big hurry. There are places I have not even been near yet. I am working on my traits, and my crafting. I don't sit for long times, I am a casual player, you can use any defination here.
I also play Guild Wars. Which I have played since 2005 and only have main to level 16. But I come into LOTRO to feel relaxed. I use to play a game that levels were 250 in multiple things. There were also the ones that got there first and complained about being bored. The people with the gaming abilities to do that will ALWAYS BE BORED. There is no game that will keep you all amused.
It is not how many hours you play but I believe your skill. I am a poor player but I am in the games to enjoy myself. So it works for me.
I also do not like PVP and hope it don't get any more.
You all have a nice day now and hugsss to a few of you, take a break for a bit.
I so hope that Turbine will stay true to their concept. This concept made about every hardcore-lol-look-my-ub0r-gear-my-kinship-all-got-full-scale-full-blown-rift-set-lolol-guy leave. Please, why do you still bother to play this game. Leave! For god's sake. Turbine spends an endless amount of time in implementing roleplay and socialising features. Why do you think is that? - RIGHT, it's because this is not an achiever's game. It never was and hopefully, it never will be. Sure, let them add new content, but keep it a nice, balanced experience. Like the rift, challenging, but with the possibility to master even for the worst-equipped casual player. You PvP and achiever guys have dozens of games out there that require dedication and planning; where you can raid for the next best item nobody else has and have your 5 minutes of fame at meeting place XYZ. Don't try to force LotRO into this... Meridion
I like this post .
The Rift isn't Achiever based? Delving Fror isn't PVP based?
There's a reason that the trade-items from Fror can be actually traded between players. And there's a reason that you can complete the rift with 12 people in full level 45 quest armor with a medium amount of tactics.
Granted, the rift takes 3-6 hours to run through completely, BUT, you can reach one boss in 45 minutes and keep going for easy, predictable drops in intervals of around 60 minutes. Plus, you can get rift equivalent or near-equivalent gear from crafting or PvP. This is meant to be a challenging experience for some long evenings, but it's far from the horrid trips you have to take to complete the raid and lolzors-uber-gear-runs in other games.
Good Grief, a couple of you really need to take a break. Oh, you could say that twice This is a game we are talking about. Power levelers or people that race through content to the end and then stand there and say, I am bored, are in every game. Everyone has different styles of gaming. The agressive and the laid back. There is no wrong or right it is your own individuality way. I have been in LOTRO since early beta, well I just now got my main up to lvl 31. But then I just roam around and look at things and not in any big hurry. There are places I have not even been near yet. I am working on my traits, and my crafting. I don't sit for long times, I am a casual player, you can use any defination here. I also play Guild Wars. Which I have played since 2005 and only have main to level 16. But I come into LOTRO to feel relaxed. I use to play a game that levels were 250 in multiple things. There were also the ones that got there first and complained about being bored. The people with the gaming abilities to do that will ALWAYS BE BORED. There is no game that will keep you all amused. It is not how many hours you play but I believe your skill. I am a poor player but I am in the games to enjoy myself. So it works for me. I also do not like PVP and hope it don't get any more. You all have a nice day now and hugsss to a few of you, take a break for a bit.
Prepare to be labelled as a worthless piece of wallpaper who don't deserve to play any MMO that the Founding Fathers of gamers have created for us
At least, trolls are predictable.
Not to mention, 100% agree of your post (not only the take a break part
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
There's a reason that the trade-items from Fror can be actually traded between players. And there's a reason that you can complete the rift with 12 people in full level 45 quest armor with a medium amount of tactics. Granted, the rift takes 3-6 hours to run through completely, BUT, you can reach one boss in 45 minutes and keep going for easy, predictable drops in intervals of around 60 minutes. Plus, you can get rift equivalent or near-equivalent gear from crafting or PvP. This is meant to be a challenging experience for some long evenings, but it's far from the horrid trips you have to take to complete the raid and lolzors-uber-gear-runs in other games. Meridion
I agree the Rift and PVP armors aren't better than the crafted. But achieving isn't always about loot. Getting the titles for beating Thrang and Thaurlach can be a goal of their own. The PvP gear drops may be tradable, but Rank isn't. It is a substantial GRIND to rank 6, 7 or 8 depending on which pieces you want. Before book 12, I don't think my server had anyone Rank 8 after a full year.
30 min a day is not realy ultra casual, its more like casual. if your an addic and play games up to 3 hours day ofcourse you get burend out of any game realy fast, cuz the content will never keep up whit those players.Intense gamers will burn through any content quicker then a new content can be put in.
LOL, I've been playing for 20+ hours/week since July, and still have not hit 50.
It's all in how you approach it.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
And no, it will not "rip".... as long as they make money earned for someone - which they very well do. You see, thats where we differ again. You see these games as a success as long as they are making lots of money. I don't use that as a measure at all.
Ok, pointless flaming skipped. Here is my point:
I don't know you, but it looks like you are (or feel yourself to be) something like a real pioneer standing at the west coast looking at the skyscrapers, all the cars and the beaches, and sadly saying to yourself "oh, where are the REAL times, all the challenges, the won fights, the thrill". Probably an EQ1 or UO vet. Is that right?
Please, I can assure you that I do not feel a tiny tad negative or for that matter, positive for the many gamers who are in similar shoes. It's neutral to me.
The problem is, the world has moved on. You might not judge an MMO based on how much money it brings (means: how many people play it), but unfortunately it is not you who run them, but the devs/publishers. And oh yes, they do decide its future based on its productivity.
As MMO's becamo more and more mainstream, the "30m player" (which I am not, and never said that I was, that's one thing less on my "bad points" display on your screen, I hope) will be the vast majority.
Still, we all hope there will be games for all tastes, for PVP fans, for real hardcore gamers (permadeath?), etc. etc. It is in everyone's favour,. since these people want these kind of games, and casual (plain, ultra, hyper, mega, extra you name it) will be happy without them (I guess). AGAIN - I really don't mind anyone with different tastes as long as they don't interfere my type of FUN - never happened in LOTRO, I really cannot complain about the society in there!.
So, the future is: a LOT of MMO's, and we all hope for variety, so that everyone can have their taste. I can only hope that you will agree with me here.
Now, the problem with your posts (especially the initial one), is that they so aggressively and arrogantly attack anyone who belongs to the ever-growing "casual" field, that it really looked like trolling and flamebait - since it happened to appear on one of the most openly casual-dedicated MMO's forum page. If you don't agree, feel free to comment.
The sheer fact that you have received the same kind of replies from at least 3 different posters, could probably help to make you think about the way you crashed in here, like an elephant in a china shop.
Make no mistake - opinions are free on all boards, including LOTRO , but the way you present them makes or breaks it. You have only received harsh replies mostly because of your tone and your initial insults to casual players. Why did you need that arrogance in the first place?
You know, at core, it is even possible that I agree with some of your points (certainly not with those that assume that any kind of ingame achievement should be awed at, or even respected). MMO's favour those players who have a LOT of time. Not even those who have the most skill (since itemization, übergear needs time getting, nothing else). IF it was truly some kind of skill to be best in MMO's, IF any achievements in MMO's would mean any kind of actual good effect on the real world, I would probably agree with you.
But sadly, the top best über high players in any MMO's are mostly just who they are: kids/adults with the most time on their hands. I could feel envy for the TIME they sunk on that game - but If I had that kind of time, I'd surely spend at least a great part of it on something else as well.
To summarize: NEITHER you NOR me are "right" or "wrong" (this was actually said in my first reply to you, but I don't think you remember. We both have ideas and opinions and arguments, and we can decide to post them intelligently, or we can be agressive arrogant assholes, and make a good (?) fight. I might have looked like one who does the latter, (and probably started on that side a little), but please re-read all the replies you made to my post. If I drank as many beers as your personal attacks on me, I couldn't have typed a single word of this reply
All in all, arguments are good, but they can be presented (and started) without insults and arrogance, and if they are started so, they will be continued in that manner as well.
If not, they are just plain trolling. You decide (at least, next time
Peace, out.
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
All of this makes me feel there really could be some kind of distinction between casual and 'hardcore' servers.
Let the hardcore players have their hardcore servers; let casual players have casual servers, (with, perhaps, an hours/week cap). That would enable casual players to 'keep up' relative to the rest of the player base, while hardcore players could duke it out on their own servers to their heart's content.
LOTRO is too shallow, easy and fast. There was a chance with that lore to make a wonderful world ..yet they only made a game following WoW. Instant gratification is the name of the game now. Linear stupid questlines, you can't even just go kill monsters with some friends anymore and explore because if you are not questing you are not getting hardly any xp.
Quest should be optional. The levels should last longer. Grouping should be encouraged at all times not for specific quest. Not only I hate all the linear quest, they are also so many stupid quest that has prereqs, players are hardly ever on the same one. Quest to level is bad. In EQ you could go to any place with monsters your level and jump in a group and have a good time. These MMORPGs went from persistant worlds to little rpgs that feel like offline games that last a mere few months.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
The point is that these games were pioneered, and are sustained, by people who form communities and interact with each other beyond a 30 min solo play sesion. Give them some frikin respect. The very people that you are trying to insult or lecture here, those that dare to spend more then 30 mins (*gasp*!) a night playing a MMORPG, enable you faddish casual-lite mmo butterflies to drop in and enjoy these worlds whenever the whim takes you. The players that invest the time and effort in these virtual worlds are the ones that make them live and breath, while the 30 min wonders are just tourists who will just dip in and out of the world until the next shiney game happens along to distract them. In truth, the rest of you are just ungrateful wall paper. You should be thanking the dedicated players, not trying to turn every game into your distorted self obsessed version of mmo-lite fast food by making out that anyone who dares play longer then 30 mins or so is some kind of social retard with no life.
As someone who cut their teeth on EQ1 for 3 1/2 years, you'll excuse me if I laugh at this whole idea of 'respect'. The hardcore players could give a flying f about community -- they were all too busy raiding deep in the Elemental planes to interact with anyone but a limited few. Oh sure, they'd return to Norrath to sell loot, but that's hardly building community. That's exploitation.
The reason I left EQ1 is because I finally realized that my subscription dollar was subsidizing this hardcore play. While I and my guildmates paid our fees, we saw little in the way of content directed our way.
I say good riddance to hardcore game mechanics. The games have gotten better for it. And no, this is not jealousy. This is not me wanting something for nothing. This is me tired of subsidizing EQ1-style hardcore mechanics.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
LOTRO is too shallow, easy and fast. There was a chance with that lore to make a wonderful world ..yet they only made a game following WoW. Instant gratification is the name of the game now. Linear stupid questlines, you can't even just go kill monsters with some friends anymore and explore because if you are not questing you are not getting hardly any xp. Quest should be optional. The levels should last longer. Grouping should be encouraged at all times not for specific quest. Not only I hate all the linear quest, they are also so many stupid quest that has prereqs, players are hardly ever on the same one. Quest to level is bad. In EQ you could go to any place with monsters your level and jump in a group and have a good time. These MMORPGs went from persistant worlds to little rpgs that feel like offline games that last a mere few months.
Nah that is not true. LOTRo is grindable, yes, if you want to. Get a Champion to AoE and a minstrel to keep him alive and you will level like a rocket. You do not NEED quests to level. You are wrong. Actually people do team up to kill monsters, and grind, they do so for deeds, for rare drops from named, and for collecting the stuffs they need for the level 45 class quests (for very great weapon/item rewards). So you are wrong again. You can play LOTRo like EQ, go camp and kill spawns, and some people do so.
The point is, with so much lore and a great main storyline, why do you want to skip them all for the purpose of grinding. LOTRo is not built as a grindfest, its meant to be enjoyed in a different manner. The quests in LOTRo are not stupid, the epic books are among the best lore I have experienced in games. Games with pre-requisites? That makes the quests meaningful. Its a story. Its an adventure. It tells a story step by step. Don't like it? Don't have patience to go thru? Skip it for the shorter quests, or go grind. LOTRo does not kill you if you skip the longer quests.
Why should levels last longer? I do not know. I understood that during my LOTRo days, I have too many hours idle so I level too fast. But for a normal me, only having a couple hours a week free (as I am now), I would not like a game to cost me 20 hours per level.
LOTRo is a persistent world, as persistent as EQ1. What you can do in EQ1 you can do in LOTRo. Granted, as a new game, LOTRo world is smaller, but Turbine hands out new content very fast, and free, unlike EQ1 who keeps selling expansion disks like toilet papers. Your critique of LOTRo using EQ1 as illustration is wrong.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
From the dev chat:
[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
From the dev chat:
[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks(actual advice and help given in a polite manner without all the jibber jabber noob crap ), the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
From the dev chat:
[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks, the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
My definition? I didn't define anything. Did you even read my post?
Anyways, it seems like YOU are unhappy with LoTR. You know, because they have and are adding more PvP content on the horizon... I don't see how someone with your attitude would even want to play a game that offers PvP.
Personally, I think the PvP in LoTRO is terrible, but it's something that many players on Gladden enjoy (take a look for yourself if you don't believe me)... You knew exactly what this game had when you purchased it. Turbine will ALWAYS be offering PvMP as an activity, and they are definitely expanding it in the future... so you'll just have to deal with it and try to ignore those players who have the bad attitudes that you cannot tolerate. Which isn't really hard if you can somehow manage to avoid threads like these.
I do not think you read my post and my reference toward gamer definitions came from your *casual gamer* comment. I wanted to make the point that not all *hard core* gamers pvp or even like it.
SO SO tired of lables and i used them here to point that fact out, not to use them myself. I personally think they are BS.
Anyway...
The pvp that LOTR offers is a far cry from what lets say WoW offers. I do not want that crap seeping into LOTR.
I like it the way it is, as do many many others. If the LOTR pvpers want the monster play expanded or what not in their own pvp world, I don't care.
I think those who oppose pvp in LOTR have a similar mindset. WOWesque pvp has left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths.
I waded through 8 pages of stuff that, for the most part, has nothing to do with the topic...
Anyway, I'm a lifetime founder too and I've been playing since November 2006 (closed beta).
I love the game, the lore had real depth and Turbine's done a nice job overall.
The problem is, I'm finished. I've got my girls to 50 some time ago, they're all Grand Master crafters with top gear. I have all the gold I need. I got a few ranks in PvMP and find most of it rather silly. I have something like 20 open quests, most in Angmar with no incentive to do them (no experience and the rewards all suck). I keep up on the epics (Books), help my kin mates with quests, raids, CD/BG/Uru runs, rep dungeons, etc.
Besides LotRO, I am playing two other MMOs currently in closed beta.
This is not about hardcore. casual, or any such labeling. This is about having gone through all the content Turbine has given us in LotRO -- gone through, not burned through -- and much of it many times over (some epics I've done over a dozen times).
Turbine needs to lift the level cap and focus attention away from avatars who scratch themselves and personal horses whose heads toss from side to side, and, their obiquitous penchant for screwing with exploit mode to the point where pathing remains a real joke ... Turbine needs to craft and introduce real, interesting incentives for players that are 50+ to stay and continue to play LotRO.
I do not think you read my post and my reference toward gamer definitions came from your *casual gamer* comment. I wanted to make the point that not all *hard core* gamers pvp or even like it. SO SO tired of lables and i used them here to point that fact out, not to use them myself. I personally think they are BS. Anyway... The pvp that LOTR offers is a far cry from what lets say WoW offers. I do not want that crap seeping into LOTR. I like it the way it is, as do many many others. If the LOTR pvpers want the monster play expanded or what not in their own pvp world, I don't care. I think those who oppose pvp in LOTR have a similar mindset. WOWesque pvp has left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths.
First off, just because I mention the words "casual gamer" does not mean I am stereotyping or dogging on them. Again, there is nothing wrong with being a casual gamer. Also, I never said that all hardcore gamers like PvP. PvMP is PvP, You said you were not a fan of the mindsets it creates and you don't want it seeping into LoTRO... it's already here friend, go take a look at the official PvMP boards at lotro.com... you'll hate it as much as I do, nothing but whining and crying. However, you whining about PvPers is like PvPers whining about PvErs.
Originally posted by Lizante Turbine needs to lift the level cap and focus attention away from avatars who scratch themselves and personal horses whose heads toss from side to side, and, their obiquitous penchant for screwing with exploit mode to the point where pathing remains a real joke ... Turbine needs to craft and introduce real, interesting incentives for players that are 50+ to stay and continue to play LotRO.
More content, more "stuff" to do! I'm all for that, they're working on it. WoW didn't ship with all their content either, it took them awhile. Same with EQ2, which probably has more content than WoW overall.
Level cap? Why? It's just a number over your head, it means nothing, proves nothing other than "yay! 10 more levels of whacking wolves, boars and bandits!" I for one am perfectly fine with leaving the cap at 50, just giving us more diverse and difficult content. Which they said is coming...
Hmm. Book 13 adds a new region (Ferochell? I may be misspelling it), north of Evendim, roughly the size of North Downs, with mostly solo, duo and small fellowship quests for levels 44-50. We can look for that in a month or two (April-May).
Then there's the much anticipated announcement in the United Kingdom tomorrow by Turbine ,,, it's all hush hush but rumors and inside sources seem to point to Turbine and Codemasters announcing the first LotRO retail expansion for release in early summer.
So lots of new content coming -- But that's not the point - more to do is one thing, but having things to do that feel like I'm actually accomplishing something is quite another matter. And no, I'm sorry -- doing a level 50 quest in Angmar (or anywhere) for a limp-ass common damage sword or quest reward item(s) my class can't use and NO EXPERIENCE is not much fun for me. Raids are fun the first time ,,, not so much fun the 10th time.
So I mentioned for Turbine to raise the level cap -- in other words, lift the stagnation (every class has basically 2 or 3 "cookiecutter" set-ups (equipment, traits, etc.) -- that's just one thing to put the Devs working on that, with the patch this week, can now stop worrying abut the player horses' heads bobbing!) -- come on! devise other, clever ways of challenging me with goals, rewards, fun things to do to keep me logging in and playing this game.
Comments
This thread has got a bit out of hand.
Guys, we all game, for different reasons, different lengths of time, etc.
I think, in the end, we all just need to take the time to find a game that suits our own gaming needs instead of causing strife amongst our community.
I did the WoW thing, the racing to 70, the end game raiding, the farming over and over, tolerating pvper and end game raider attitudes, etc. I ended up becoming an elitist bitch and realized omfg, this is a video game.
I switched to LOTR and I like it. I am not a bitch anymore, I am not stressed out when I log on, I am enjoying the story, the endless quests, the crafting, all aspects of it.
Is LOTR better than WoW? Nah, it is just different and I like the way it is and it suits me and many others just as WoW or EVE etc, suits other people.
In real life, when we are unsatisfied with anything, we continue life's journey until we are satisfied. Consider that the next time your chosen game is no longer fun for you. Just move on.
Firstly, may I say that the fact that you are obviously still reading my replies and responding to them indirectly via replies to other people's posts very funny. You can't stop yourself can you? Thank you for that.
Be it 5 minutes per week or 25 hours a day. People should grow up and understand - everyone is entitled to be respected on the same level, regardless of the amount of time they spend in an MMO.
Insulting people again?
He disagrees with you... that dosent make his PoV childish.
Of course individuals deserve respect, but we are talking about achievemnts in a game here, not the human right to universal respect.
If I turned up at Wimbledon with a tennis racket and demanded to be shown the same gaming respect as the seeded players who had shown dedication, talent, and investment in their love I would be laughed out of the building.
I will leave you to figure out the rest, you will probably just reinvent or make up what I post anyhow.
Also, their opinion is just equally "justified" as anybody else's. I know I will be personally attacked and categorized again with a lot of spinoffs
Spin offs? eh? lol
and made-up ideas
Thats me is it? You need to go back and re-read my friend.
by some green troll here,
I disagree with you and I'm a troll?
Whenever you are losing a point you insult someone. Do you act like this in RL?
(I'm glad to visit these forums, at least now I know that I have a wife+kids (never met them tho), play only 30 minutes a day (wish i could go down to that level one day
, etc etc.
I am sorry, but this again dosent make any sense to me...
People here (and not only here) are stuck so much in their own ideas and imagination that it scares the crap out of more liberal (open-minded, grownup if you prefer)
Thats you again is it?
Tell that to the people you accused of having 'no life' because they dare play for more then 30 mins a day...
people sometimes.... why is it so hard to imagine that one can have a word for *other* people, than for his own self-fed ego?
Some of your sentences just confuse me.
And no, it will not "rip".... as long as they make money earned for someone - which they very well do.
You see, thats where we differ again. You see these games as a success as long as they are making lots of money. I don't use that as a measure at all.
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.
Ok fair enough. I understand where you are coming from now.
And to a certain extent I do "get it" as I notice differences between my main game (lineage 2) and other games like LOTRO or even WoW.
From what I gather from more "sandbox" type games like Lineage 2 (yes, I believe it to be a sandbox pvp game because the real game takes place between the players, not the actual content) or Eve or even from what I've read of SWG, there is more going on than just take this quest and do that raid.
I remember being (at one point) in one of the top pvp alliances because some friends had joined and I wanted to hang with them for a bit. There was one siege that was of note because our alliance controlled one of the top castles and many people did not like our alliance.
I had logged into WoW for a small bit, do a quest, get some xp etc then logged into L2 for the siege.
There I was, standing amongst my clan mates and allies, preparing, knowing that we were about 24 clans or so against 29 clans. And they wanted us out. You could feel it. I got the sudden feeling that what was about to happen (which incidentally was one of the best sieges I've ever been to) had far more ingame weight than anything that I've seen in other games.
However, I can really see why people would not want to play a game like L2 or Eve because of that perceived "weight". It suddenly stops becoming casual past time and one feels the consequences of their actions more acutely.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I like this post .
Well first of all I think you are splitting hairs by trying to make a distinction between ultra casual and "just" casual. Is there an "Extreme Casual" as well? Is there a Partial Casual?
Your answer to accusing me of splitting hairs is to split them even further?
I didnt bring any of these classifications into the discussion.
And I said what I did in my post because of:
"These games from day 1 have required the player to invest something deeper then other genres, thats what has always given them the soul other games have always lacked for me. When a game is full of 30 min a day players, how can social networks, friendships, and game knowledge be built up? In short, how can communities be forged?
No wonder MMOs are going down the sh*tter."
You make the statment that when a game is full of 30 min a day players that there is no way for a variety of things to happen and because of this these games are "going down the s*tter".
To me it seems that you are advocating a longer commitement otherwise we will never have games the way they are supposed to. It seems that you have no respect for players who are not willing to spend greater amounts of time in a game.
It is true that communities = the 'soul' for the games, the very thing that makes them special and the very thing that solo ultra casuals do nothing to enhance.
What I am saying in the main though is that casual and ultra-casual gamers should at least respect those more dedicated players that support and sustain these worlds. They should just have a little respect for those people and calling them 'no lifes' like Donnibrasco does is just ignorant and inflammatory. I am just sick of the posts by casual lite players making out that people who play these games more then they do are some kind of social freaks or retards.
I have said quite clearly that I think people should play how they want to play and that there is room for all, but the points being made here that if you dare spend more then 30 mins a night playing a game that makes you an addict or no lifer or something are ridiculous.
The point is if games are now being built solely for the ultra casual crowd, then MMORPGs will just become MSPAGs (Massive Solo Player Arcade Games), losing the special ingredient that made them such a joy for many in the pursuit of investors chasing the almighty buck. I think that is a real loss.
If you re-read my previous posts, you will see nothing I have said previously contradicts this post.
And I'm saying that there are more things in life to do other than to spend hours on end in a game.
I agree. Again, I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I do much more.
An even better example. I started playing DDO and only spend a small amount of time. I was invited to a clan and though we are all casual players and rarely see each other, when we are on at the same time we enjoy each other's company for the short amount of time it takes to do a mission or two.
So there you have it, a sort of online friendship based upon a short amount of time. Quite frankly I don't feel that more is needed. If one wants to spend the time then fine but I don't really see the need nor do I think that spending this amount of time is contributing to the decline of online games.
As far as the timbre of your post, you seem bitter. I don't know what is going on with you but there is no need to post the way you do.
No, I am just telling it straight regarding a subject I care about.
I just think it's real shame what we are losing and what we will inevitably end up with 5-10 years from now.
Ok fair enough. I understand where you are coming from now.
Thank you Sov. It's refreshing.
And to a certain extent I do "get it" as I notice differences between my main game (lineage 2) and other games like LOTRO or even WoW.
From what I gather from more "sandbox" type games like Lineage 2 (yes, I believe it to be a sandbox pvp game because the real game takes place between the players, not the actual content) or Eve or even from what I've read of SWG, there is more going on than just take this quest and do that raid.
I remember being (at one point) in one of the top pvp alliances because some friends had joined and I wanted to hang with them for a bit. There was one siege that was of note because our alliance controlled one of the top castles and many people did not like our alliance.
I had logged into WoW for a small bit, do a quest, get some xp etc then logged into L2 for the siege.
There I was, standing amongst my clan mates and allies, preparing, knowing that we were about 24 clans or so against 29 clans. And they wanted us out. You could feel it. I got the sudden feeling that what was about to happen (which incidentally was one of the best sieges I've ever been to) had far more ingame weight than anything that I've seen in other games.
However, I can really see why people would not want to play a game like L2 or Eve because of that perceived "weight". It suddenly stops becoming casual past time and one feels the consequences of their actions more acutely.
Fair points.
Good Grief, a couple of you really need to take a break.
This is a game we are talking about.
Power levelers or people that race through content to the end and then stand there and say, I am bored, are in every game.
Everyone has different styles of gaming. The agressive and the laid back. There is no wrong or right it is your own individuality way.
I have been in LOTRO since early beta, well I just now got my main up to lvl 31. But then I just roam around and look at things and not in any big hurry. There are places I have not even been near yet. I am working on my traits, and my crafting. I don't sit for long times, I am a casual player, you can use any defination here.
I also play Guild Wars. Which I have played since 2005 and only have main to level 16. But I come into LOTRO to feel relaxed. I use to play a game that levels were 250 in multiple things. There were also the ones that got there first and complained about being bored. The people with the gaming abilities to do that will ALWAYS BE BORED. There is no game that will keep you all amused.
It is not how many hours you play but I believe your skill. I am a poor player but I am in the games to enjoy myself. So it works for me.
I also do not like PVP and hope it don't get any more.
You all have a nice day now and hugsss to a few of you, take a break for a bit.
I like this post .
The Rift isn't Achiever based? Delving Fror isn't PVP based?
There's a reason that the trade-items from Fror can be actually traded between players. And there's a reason that you can complete the rift with 12 people in full level 45 quest armor with a medium amount of tactics.
Granted, the rift takes 3-6 hours to run through completely, BUT, you can reach one boss in 45 minutes and keep going for easy, predictable drops in intervals of around 60 minutes. Plus, you can get rift equivalent or near-equivalent gear from crafting or PvP. This is meant to be a challenging experience for some long evenings, but it's far from the horrid trips you have to take to complete the raid and lolzors-uber-gear-runs in other games.
Meridion
At least, trolls are predictable.
Not to mention, 100% agree of your post (not only the take a break part
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I agree the Rift and PVP armors aren't better than the crafted. But achieving isn't always about loot. Getting the titles for beating Thrang and Thaurlach can be a goal of their own. The PvP gear drops may be tradable, but Rank isn't. It is a substantial GRIND to rank 6, 7 or 8 depending on which pieces you want. Before book 12, I don't think my server had anyone Rank 8 after a full year.
LOL, I've been playing for 20+ hours/week since July, and still have not hit 50.
It's all in how you approach it.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Ok, pointless flaming skipped. Here is my point:
I don't know you, but it looks like you are (or feel yourself to be) something like a real pioneer standing at the west coast looking at the skyscrapers, all the cars and the beaches, and sadly saying to yourself "oh, where are the REAL times, all the challenges, the won fights, the thrill". Probably an EQ1 or UO vet. Is that right?
Please, I can assure you that I do not feel a tiny tad negative or for that matter, positive for the many gamers who are in similar shoes. It's neutral to me.
The problem is, the world has moved on. You might not judge an MMO based on how much money it brings (means: how many people play it), but unfortunately it is not you who run them, but the devs/publishers. And oh yes, they do decide its future based on its productivity.
As MMO's becamo more and more mainstream, the "30m player" (which I am not, and never said that I was, that's one thing less on my "bad points" display on your screen, I hope) will be the vast majority.
Still, we all hope there will be games for all tastes, for PVP fans, for real hardcore gamers (permadeath?), etc. etc. It is in everyone's favour,. since these people want these kind of games, and casual (plain, ultra, hyper, mega, extra you name it) will be happy without them (I guess). AGAIN - I really don't mind anyone with different tastes as long as they don't interfere my type of FUN - never happened in LOTRO, I really cannot complain about the society in there!.
So, the future is: a LOT of MMO's, and we all hope for variety, so that everyone can have their taste. I can only hope that you will agree with me here.
Now, the problem with your posts (especially the initial one), is that they so aggressively and arrogantly attack anyone who belongs to the ever-growing "casual" field, that it really looked like trolling and flamebait - since it happened to appear on one of the most openly casual-dedicated MMO's forum page. If you don't agree, feel free to comment.
The sheer fact that you have received the same kind of replies from at least 3 different posters, could probably help to make you think about the way you crashed in here, like an elephant in a china shop.
Make no mistake - opinions are free on all boards, including LOTRO
, but the way you present them makes or breaks it. You have only received harsh replies mostly because of your tone and your initial insults to casual players. Why did you need that arrogance in the first place?
You know, at core, it is even possible that I agree with some of your points (certainly not with those that assume that any kind of ingame achievement should be awed at, or even respected). MMO's favour those players who have a LOT of time. Not even those who have the most skill (since itemization, übergear needs time getting, nothing else). IF it was truly some kind of skill to be best in MMO's, IF any achievements in MMO's would mean any kind of actual good effect on the real world, I would probably agree with you.
But sadly, the top best über high players in any MMO's are mostly just who they are: kids/adults with the most time on their hands. I could feel envy for the TIME they sunk on that game - but If I had that kind of time, I'd surely spend at least a great part of it on something else as well.
To summarize: NEITHER you NOR me are "right" or "wrong" (this was actually said in my first reply to you, but I don't think you remember. We both have ideas and opinions and arguments, and we can decide to post them intelligently, or we can be agressive arrogant assholes, and make a good (?) fight. I might have looked like one who does the latter, (and probably started on that side a little), but please re-read all the replies you made to my post. If I drank as many beers as your personal attacks on me, I couldn't have typed a single word of this reply
All in all, arguments are good, but they can be presented (and started) without insults and arrogance, and if they are started so, they will be continued in that manner as well.
If not, they are just plain trolling. You decide (at least, next time
Peace, out.
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
All of this makes me feel there really could be some kind of distinction between casual and 'hardcore' servers.
Let the hardcore players have their hardcore servers; let casual players have casual servers, (with, perhaps, an hours/week cap). That would enable casual players to 'keep up' relative to the rest of the player base, while hardcore players could duke it out on their own servers to their heart's content.
LOTRO is too shallow, easy and fast. There was a chance with that lore to make a wonderful world ..yet they only made a game following WoW. Instant gratification is the name of the game now. Linear stupid questlines, you can't even just go kill monsters with some friends anymore and explore because if you are not questing you are not getting hardly any xp.
Quest should be optional. The levels should last longer. Grouping should be encouraged at all times not for specific quest. Not only I hate all the linear quest, they are also so many stupid quest that has prereqs, players are hardly ever on the same one. Quest to level is bad. In EQ you could go to any place with monsters your level and jump in a group and have a good time. These MMORPGs went from persistant worlds to little rpgs that feel like offline games that last a mere few months.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
The reason I left EQ1 is because I finally realized that my subscription dollar was subsidizing this hardcore play. While I and my guildmates paid our fees, we saw little in the way of content directed our way.
I say good riddance to hardcore game mechanics. The games have gotten better for it. And no, this is not jealousy. This is not me wanting something for nothing. This is me tired of subsidizing EQ1-style hardcore mechanics.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
The point is, with so much lore and a great main storyline, why do you want to skip them all for the purpose of grinding. LOTRo is not built as a grindfest, its meant to be enjoyed in a different manner. The quests in LOTRo are not stupid, the epic books are among the best lore I have experienced in games. Games with pre-requisites? That makes the quests meaningful. Its a story. Its an adventure. It tells a story step by step. Don't like it? Don't have patience to go thru? Skip it for the shorter quests, or go grind. LOTRo does not kill you if you skip the longer quests.
Why should levels last longer? I do not know. I understood that during my LOTRo days, I have too many hours idle so I level too fast. But for a normal me, only having a couple hours a week free (as I am now), I would not like a game to cost me 20 hours per level.
LOTRo is a persistent world, as persistent as EQ1. What you can do in EQ1 you can do in LOTRo. Granted, as a new game, LOTRo world is smaller, but Turbine hands out new content very fast, and free, unlike EQ1 who keeps selling expansion disks like toilet papers. Your critique of LOTRo using EQ1 as illustration is wrong.
From the dev chat:[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
From the dev chat:[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks(actual advice and help given in a polite manner without all the jibber jabber noob crap ), the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks, the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
My definition? I didn't define anything. Did you even read my post?
Anyways, it seems like YOU are unhappy with LoTR. You know, because they have and are adding more PvP content on the horizon... I don't see how someone with your attitude would even want to play a game that offers PvP.
Personally, I think the PvP in LoTRO is terrible, but it's something that many players on Gladden enjoy (take a look for yourself if you don't believe me)... You knew exactly what this game had when you purchased it. Turbine will ALWAYS be offering PvMP as an activity, and they are definitely expanding it in the future... so you'll just have to deal with it and try to ignore those players who have the bad attitudes that you cannot tolerate. Which isn't really hard if you can somehow manage to avoid threads like these.
I do not think you read my post and my reference toward gamer definitions came from your *casual gamer* comment. I wanted to make the point that not all *hard core* gamers pvp or even like it.
SO SO tired of lables and i used them here to point that fact out, not to use them myself. I personally think they are BS.
Anyway...
The pvp that LOTR offers is a far cry from what lets say WoW offers. I do not want that crap seeping into LOTR.
I like it the way it is, as do many many others. If the LOTR pvpers want the monster play expanded or what not in their own pvp world, I don't care.
I think those who oppose pvp in LOTR have a similar mindset. WOWesque pvp has left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths.
OMG!
I waded through 8 pages of stuff that, for the most part, has nothing to do with the topic...
Anyway, I'm a lifetime founder too and I've been playing since November 2006 (closed beta).
I love the game, the lore had real depth and Turbine's done a nice job overall.
The problem is, I'm finished. I've got my girls to 50 some time ago, they're all Grand Master crafters with top gear. I have all the gold I need. I got a few ranks in PvMP and find most of it rather silly. I have something like 20 open quests, most in Angmar with no incentive to do them (no experience and the rewards all suck). I keep up on the epics (Books), help my kin mates with quests, raids, CD/BG/Uru runs, rep dungeons, etc.
Besides LotRO, I am playing two other MMOs currently in closed beta.
This is not about hardcore. casual, or any such labeling. This is about having gone through all the content Turbine has given us in LotRO -- gone through, not burned through -- and much of it many times over (some epics I've done over a dozen times).
Turbine needs to lift the level cap and focus attention away from avatars who scratch themselves and personal horses whose heads toss from side to side, and, their obiquitous penchant for screwing with exploit mode to the point where pathing remains a real joke ... Turbine needs to craft and introduce real, interesting incentives for players that are 50+ to stay and continue to play LotRO.
More content, more "stuff" to do! I'm all for that, they're working on it. WoW didn't ship with all their content either, it took them awhile. Same with EQ2, which probably has more content than WoW overall.
Level cap? Why? It's just a number over your head, it means nothing, proves nothing other than "yay! 10 more levels of whacking wolves, boars and bandits!" I for one am perfectly fine with leaving the cap at 50, just giving us more diverse and difficult content. Which they said is coming...
Hmm. Book 13 adds a new region (Ferochell? I may be misspelling it), north of Evendim, roughly the size of North Downs, with mostly solo, duo and small fellowship quests for levels 44-50. We can look for that in a month or two (April-May).
Then there's the much anticipated announcement in the United Kingdom tomorrow by Turbine ,,, it's all hush hush but rumors and inside sources seem to point to Turbine and Codemasters announcing the first LotRO retail expansion for release in early summer.
So lots of new content coming -- But that's not the point - more to do is one thing, but having things to do that feel like I'm actually accomplishing something is quite another matter. And no, I'm sorry -- doing a level 50 quest in Angmar (or anywhere) for a limp-ass common damage sword or quest reward item(s) my class can't use and NO EXPERIENCE is not much fun for me. Raids are fun the first time ,,, not so much fun the 10th time.
So I mentioned for Turbine to raise the level cap -- in other words, lift the stagnation (every class has basically 2 or 3 "cookiecutter" set-ups (equipment, traits, etc.) -- that's just one thing to put the Devs working on that, with the patch this week, can now stop worrying abut the player horses' heads bobbing!) -- come on! devise other, clever ways of challenging me with goals, rewards, fun things to do to keep me logging in and playing this game.