Honestly I wouldn't mind a specific server with special rules that allowed the current creeps to roam in certain (most) zones. It might be a fun challenge to play on that server.
However, I am completely against using significant development resources just to make that happen. And I am completely against trying to make the game a symmetric 2 faction game with a good & evil side (like horde & allliance in wow). There are just too many drawbacks to that approach, and it absolutely would not work for LOTRO. Look at City of Heroes. IMO COV ruined that game. They spent a ton of resources to make COV which was just a copy of COH with an evil theme. Meanwhile they let their main game stagnate. All for basically nothing except appeasing idiots that want to be "evil".
If you look at WOW, even though both sides only differed by a single class on each side (both of which were designed to fill similar roles) turned into a MAJOR problem for them so that they ended up having to concede and make shaman/paladins available to both sides. Trying to make symmetric factions is just a big headache, and if you can avoid it then it makes things a lot easier. With multiple factions your content has to be generic so that all sides can participate or you have to make 2x or 3x the content to give every faction something to do. It creates divisions in the player base and just all kinds of other problems.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~ LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
I bet for every "I left b/c there's no PvP" player, there's at least one person like me who would leave if Turbine implemented world PvP. I also would not play if I could just "log in with some friends and kill stuff". The quests and storylines keep me coming back. So, I remind those who complain about the state of the game that while YOU may want certain changes, I don't. Turbine had made a game that caters to people like me and not like you. Don't ask them to 'ruin' the game I like. Go find a game that caters to you instead. And you know what? When you find your game, I'll be courteous enough to not whine for changes in it if you let me have the game I like here.
From the dev chat:
[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks(actual advice and help given in a polite manner without all the jibber jabber noob crap ), the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
I-I-I-I-I...what ever happened to "we"? As in "we the people"? It's not like PvP will ever be forced on you. Why not give other people a chance to experience what they want, rather than focusing on you being able to escape your life for a few hours without having your fragile feelings hurt because other people are doing things at a different pace or place. Sounds like you expect LoTRO to cater only to the desires of a casual gamer who uses the game in an unhealthy fashion to escape their life, rather than a hobby thats innovative, unrepetitive(PvE), and may actually require input against another sentient being in a test of intelligence.
Unhealthy fashion to escape their life. Hmmm..isn't that what any entertainment is about? Escaping into a fantasy for a bit? Books, movies, games, sports, etc?
Btw, nice slams on me, feel better big man?
RPG means role playing game.. role playing is improv acting, becoming another character. Amazing how many people who play these MMORPGs do not realize this and slam others who do realize it, enjoy the lores, etc.
Not everyone who games nowadays is a male between the ages of 12 and 25. Some of us remember and played in a world of table top with a D20 system. It is hard to find a group to do that anymore so we turn to our computers and look for a world where we can experience that entertainment as close as possible.
I believe LOTR does that for me and for many others. The community is awesome, all the little nuances added, the lore in itself. I could go on and on.
Btw, loved the comment *input of intelligence among other sentient beings" That happens as a norm in WoW among pvpers??? When did that start?? Give me a break.
For every argument that people want pvp, there is one for those who just want pve.
Someone else in this thread said *Keep your pvp out of my pve" and that says it all. I do not know why it is so awful terrible to actually want and desire a game without the pvp BS.
You want a game with pvp? Take your pick, quit whining about LOTR or better yet, get on your console, go live, and have your "input of sentient intelligence" there. One less pvper in an mmoRPG.
Anyone who says that roleplaying is 'unhealthy escaping' has to add that acting in general is. Roleplaying is one of the things in a computer game that actually CONTRIBUTE to your real life soft skills. It requires creativity and wit to really keep improvised acting entertaining for all participants. Good roleplaying is a LOT harder to 'master' than pushing buttons in a particular order for a hxxx on.
I have played lotro since open beta and now have a 50 hunter. My kinship has finished all end game content and has geared every one of our players in full rift armor for about a month now. This game has sooo much potential its crazy. The graphics are amazing, the deed system and titles are pretty cool, and the end game raids are fun. But of course this game lacks a severe amount of content. I am to the point of canceling my subscription because of the lack of pvp and overall content it offers. I am hoping turbine is gonna come through with an all new expansion with new raids overhauled pvp and SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY DO. People have nothing left to accomplish in this game once they finish all the content which quite honestly doesn't take very long. The PVP in this game stinks. It's almost the point of calling it non-existent. The ettenmoor's is a great idea but my god open world pvp is where its at and what people consistently ask for in mmo's. A playable race of orcs they say doesnt fit in with what they want to accomplish with this game . Now I know that idea has been thrown out there but lets see turbine dare to dream and give the people what they want and something called content for a game that could be one of the best mmo's on the market. It can compete with AoC and WAR when they come out if they give this game what it needs a major content add and pvp overhaul.
most of us agree with you, but devs want to do what THEY think its best....i wish a genius would finally figure it out that, if mmo companies would listen to us and give us what we really want, we would gladly send them 15 dollars a month for a very, very long time.
PVP is Counter-Strike or Battlefield. I love both (have BF2, played to some ranks).
In MMO's PVP is not at all about skill, it is about TIME. Time to raid a zillion times to get the übergear, time to spen countless hours in arenas to get ranks, time to learn all the skills and compute the order/sequence in which they give the most DPS.
PVP, to me, is about skill. No current MMO PVP needs skill (that is, how I myself define skill).
PVP in MMO's are nothing but ego-trips.
Again, this is strictly my opinion, not a fact. Still, I can back it up, as you can see above.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
PVP is Counter-Strike or Battlefield. I love both (have BF2, played to some ranks). In MMO's PVP is not at all about skill, it is about TIME. Time to raid a zillion times to get the übergear, time to spen countless hours in arenas to get ranks, time to learn all the skills and compute the order/sequence in which they give the most DPS. PVP, to me, is about skill. No current MMO PVP needs skill (that is, how I myself define skill). PVP in MMO's are nothing but ego-trips. Again, this is strictly my opinion, not a fact. Still, I can back it up, as you can see above. DB
PvP needs a point in mmo's. Or at least one other than my own vitual ego. Skill and time are more a personal preference IMO. If the only reward is for the individual, they all lead to the same end. Ganking with no consequence. twinks, griefing, crying on forums..ect. Eve has good pvp..the mechanics may not suit you, but the pvp system is good.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
PVP is Counter-Strike or Battlefield. I love both (have BF2, played to some ranks). In MMO's PVP is not at all about skill, it is about TIME. Time to raid a zillion times to get the übergear, time to spen countless hours in arenas to get ranks, time to learn all the skills and compute the order/sequence in which they give the most DPS. PVP, to me, is about skill. No current MMO PVP needs skill (that is, how I myself define skill). PVP in MMO's are nothing but ego-trips. Again, this is strictly my opinion, not a fact. Still, I can back it up, as you can see above. DB
PvP needs a point in mmo's. Or at least one other than my own vitual ego. Skill and time are more a personal preference IMO. If the only reward is for the individual, they all lead to the same end. Ganking with no consequence. twinks, griefing, crying on forums..ect. Eve has good pvp..the mechanics may not suit you, but the pvp system is good.
EVE PVP is a total exception. It is truly excellent, because of 2 main reasons:
1 - it needs a lot more than time - all players decide how to develop their skills, and a 6 month player can beat a 3 yr vet, if they trained their skills in a certain direction and use them perfectly. It is also a kind of stone-paper-scissors kind of PVP, where you can get caught unprepared and beaten by a "noob", you can always get surprised etc.
2 - penalty is VERY harsh. This will frighten away a lot of people from PVP (well, mostly casuals like me , but also you won't find l33t kidz with 12 hours time to play per day - these are the griefer idiots who don't care if they got beaten a few times in WOW battlegrounds since they don't lose anything. That's not what it's like in EVE.
So if there is one MMO, where PVP actually make sense, it is EVE.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
What does license has to do with PvP? No one ever stated that PvP has no place in lore. What was said is that at the moment they have no plans for open world PvP but LOTR settings are perfect for PvP. For people like you there can always be RP servers where you can fish or change your hairstyle but there is players who actually need a bit more from this game.
From my point of view, game would be better without you, with millions of subscribers cos at the moment game is almost empty and its hard to find decent fellowship and its all RP.
Good ol' Jerry here's serving us some whine with his cheese.
While he is providing us with a chuckle, it's rather meaningless since LotRO is not, was never designed to be and will never be twisted into a PvP game.
As many have said here, in LotRO, PvMP is firmly ensconced in LotRO as a diversion -- Turbine specifically stated that players can completely avoid PvMP (as well as any and all Raids, such as the RIft and Helegrod).
Now if, as a player, you want PvMP equipment and/or are lured by other newly introduced items/concepts in Ettenmoors/Ettendeep, go for it. Same as the Raids - those areas are there for you!
I see Turbine did announce Mines of Moria -- a huge new area -- will be a paid expansion, coming this fall ,,, and along with that, we shall see the level cap increased to level 60, more things for folks 50+ to do, enhancements to traits and equipment and two new races!
Comments
Honestly I wouldn't mind a specific server with special rules that allowed the current creeps to roam in certain (most) zones. It might be a fun challenge to play on that server.
However, I am completely against using significant development resources just to make that happen. And I am completely against trying to make the game a symmetric 2 faction game with a good & evil side (like horde & allliance in wow). There are just too many drawbacks to that approach, and it absolutely would not work for LOTRO. Look at City of Heroes. IMO COV ruined that game. They spent a ton of resources to make COV which was just a copy of COH with an evil theme. Meanwhile they let their main game stagnate. All for basically nothing except appeasing idiots that want to be "evil".
If you look at WOW, even though both sides only differed by a single class on each side (both of which were designed to fill similar roles) turned into a MAJOR problem for them so that they ended up having to concede and make shaman/paladins available to both sides. Trying to make symmetric factions is just a big headache, and if you can avoid it then it makes things a lot easier. With multiple factions your content has to be generic so that all sides can participate or you have to make 2x or 3x the content to give every faction something to do. It creates divisions in the player base and just all kinds of other problems.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
From the dev chat:[17:39] Annuvin_LOTRO: LOTRO is a game, that is meant to appeal to all sorts of players. Much like politics, each and every feature appeals to X % of our players, means nothing to Y% of our players, and enrages Z% of our players. Trying to encapsulate an MMO in a blanket statement of "just for casual" is sort of like trying to say baby wipes are 'just for noses'.
So, straight from a devs mouth.... it does not just cater to people like you, it IS MEANT TO APPEAL TO ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS. I'm am so sick and tired of hearing people call this a casual mmo, a hardcore mmo, a hello kitty adventure, too easy, too much focus on raiding, blah blah blah... it's for everyone.
Some people want more PvP, and they have the right to bitch about it. If you don't like that, maybe you should find yourself a new game that really does only appeal to casual gamers. Besides, if people didn't start flamefests, this forum would be boring as hell.
By your definition I would be hardcore. I raided in WoW 5 nights a week, 4-6 hours a night. I had 21 exalted factions, was maxed leveled in my professions, including fishing, had uber patterns, owned all the epic mounts, including all the flyers that could be bought or earned through rep grinding and was decked out in all tier. Guess what? I left because I was stressed out, felt i needed to rush rush and became an elitist bitch with a lack of patience with people who didn't *think* like I did. Then the expansion came out and it became pvp hell. Can we get loots any easier now? Lets get a bot or jump around enough so it looks like i am doing something so I don't reported while i read a book or hey lets get those 10 games in a week, win or lose, guaranteed purple.
I HATE PVP and the attitudes that come with it but the same can be said for the end game raiders and their snot nosed attitudes.
We game to unwind and have some fun.
I left WoW and found LoTR and I love it. The community rocks(actual advice and help given in a polite manner without all the jibber jabber noob crap ), the graphics are awesome, I am never bored or feel compelled to max level . I love the storylines, the quests, the rp, it has so much that I really enjoy and so many others do also.
I do not feel the drive here for uber loot bragging rights in pvp gear or i r uber cause we downed that next raid boss and are the number one guild. I do not need it. Having that mentality turned me into a psycho who forgot for awhile that these are all pixelated worlds, not reality and if the internet was gone tomorrow, life goes on.
I lose myself and genuinely escape, becoming a kick ass REAL LORE elf in Eriador, not some bouncy blue bimbo or a sarcastic anorexic sexpot AND I cut my play time in half, I enjoy a few hours a night after my son goes to bed and omg, I do progress.
I have said it before, pvp brings out a bravado crap talking attitude that does not appeal to everyone and it seeps into the game, entering every chat channel.
I hate pvp and omg I do not want it at all in LOTR.
I have more fun now than I ever did in WoW. I miss the friends I made over there, but I am making new friends here.
If you are unhappy with LOTR, go somewhere else where you can pvp and end game raid your UBER LEET hearts out and leave LOTR alone. There are TONS of mmos out there that would suit your tastes. Let us have our world, go find yours, it is apparent your travels haven't ended for you. Good hunting.
We are all gamers, we all matter, and we all have the right to a good time wherever we pay to play. WoW was not fun for me anymore after three years and a crap expansion/pvp BS so I moved on, so can you.
I-I-I-I-I...what ever happened to "we"? As in "we the people"? It's not like PvP will ever be forced on you. Why not give other people a chance to experience what they want, rather than focusing on you being able to escape your life for a few hours without having your fragile feelings hurt because other people are doing things at a different pace or place. Sounds like you expect LoTRO to cater only to the desires of a casual gamer who uses the game in an unhealthy fashion to escape their life, rather than a hobby thats innovative, unrepetitive(PvE), and may actually require input against another sentient being in a test of intelligence.
Unhealthy fashion to escape their life. Hmmm..isn't that what any entertainment is about? Escaping into a fantasy for a bit? Books, movies, games, sports, etc?
Btw, nice slams on me, feel better big man?
RPG means role playing game.. role playing is improv acting, becoming another character. Amazing how many people who play these MMORPGs do not realize this and slam others who do realize it, enjoy the lores, etc.
Not everyone who games nowadays is a male between the ages of 12 and 25. Some of us remember and played in a world of table top with a D20 system. It is hard to find a group to do that anymore so we turn to our computers and look for a world where we can experience that entertainment as close as possible.
I believe LOTR does that for me and for many others. The community is awesome, all the little nuances added, the lore in itself. I could go on and on.
Btw, loved the comment *input of intelligence among other sentient beings" That happens as a norm in WoW among pvpers??? When did that start?? Give me a break.
For every argument that people want pvp, there is one for those who just want pve.
Someone else in this thread said *Keep your pvp out of my pve" and that says it all. I do not know why it is so awful terrible to actually want and desire a game without the pvp BS.
You want a game with pvp? Take your pick, quit whining about LOTR or better yet, get on your console, go live, and have your "input of sentient intelligence" there. One less pvper in an mmoRPG.
Anyone who says that roleplaying is 'unhealthy escaping' has to add that acting in general is. Roleplaying is one of the things in a computer game that actually CONTRIBUTE to your real life soft skills. It requires creativity and wit to really keep improvised acting entertaining for all participants. Good roleplaying is a LOT harder to 'master' than pushing buttons in a particular order for a hxxx on.
Meridion
most of us agree with you, but devs want to do what THEY think its best....i wish a genius would finally figure it out that, if mmo companies would listen to us and give us what we really want, we would gladly send them 15 dollars a month for a very, very long time.
PVP is Counter-Strike or Battlefield. I love both (have BF2, played to some ranks).
In MMO's PVP is not at all about skill, it is about TIME. Time to raid a zillion times to get the übergear, time to spen countless hours in arenas to get ranks, time to learn all the skills and compute the order/sequence in which they give the most DPS.
PVP, to me, is about skill. No current MMO PVP needs skill (that is, how I myself define skill).
PVP in MMO's are nothing but ego-trips.
Again, this is strictly my opinion, not a fact. Still, I can back it up, as you can see above.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
PvP needs a point in mmo's. Or at least one other than my own vitual ego. Skill and time are more a personal preference IMO. If the only reward is for the individual, they all lead to the same end. Ganking with no consequence. twinks, griefing, crying on forums..ect. Eve has good pvp..the mechanics may not suit you, but the pvp system is good.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
PvP needs a point in mmo's. Or at least one other than my own vitual ego. Skill and time are more a personal preference IMO. If the only reward is for the individual, they all lead to the same end. Ganking with no consequence. twinks, griefing, crying on forums..ect. Eve has good pvp..the mechanics may not suit you, but the pvp system is good.
EVE PVP is a total exception. It is truly excellent, because of 2 main reasons:
1 - it needs a lot more than time - all players decide how to develop their skills, and a 6 month player can beat a 3 yr vet, if they trained their skills in a certain direction and use them perfectly. It is also a kind of stone-paper-scissors kind of PVP, where you can get caught unprepared and beaten by a "noob", you can always get surprised etc.
2 - penalty is VERY harsh. This will frighten away a lot of people from PVP (well, mostly casuals like me
, but also you won't find l33t kidz with 12 hours time to play per day - these are the griefer idiots who don't care if they got beaten a few times in WOW battlegrounds since they don't lose anything. That's not what it's like in EVE.
So if there is one MMO, where PVP actually make sense, it is EVE.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
While he is providing us with a chuckle, it's rather meaningless since LotRO is not, was never designed to be and will never be twisted into a PvP game.
As many have said here, in LotRO, PvMP is firmly ensconced in LotRO as a diversion -- Turbine specifically stated that players can completely avoid PvMP (as well as any and all Raids, such as the RIft and Helegrod).
Now if, as a player, you want PvMP equipment and/or are lured by other newly introduced items/concepts in Ettenmoors/Ettendeep, go for it. Same as the Raids - those areas are there for you!
Ahhh ,,,, YAY!
I see Turbine did announce Mines of Moria -- a huge new area -- will be a paid expansion, coming this fall ,,, and along with that, we shall see the level cap increased to level 60, more things for folks 50+ to do, enhancements to traits and equipment and two new races!
Hehe finally. Life is good.