<p>The fact of the matter is everyone, yes i mean everyone, posting in the WAR forums either to praise the game or bash it to all high hell, -EVERYONE- posting in these forums will play or try WAR if not during open beta, during release time.</p> <p>Don't try to tell me I'm wrong, or else why would you be posting in this forum?? </p>
While I am planning to play WAR, your assumption is flawed. I post in all sorts of forums/threads for games I've never played, and never plan to play.
I'm going to play AOC, but only because its first to market, had WAR, AION of CoS released at the same time, I'd have to really think about what I was going to try first.
I may never get to all games out there, but I certainly can comment on them, and no, I won't necessarily even beta them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fantasy is much more than elfs and midgets with beards.....
Yeah, but Warhammer actually started out as an over-the-top parody of elfs and midgets with beards.... and it still retains this attitude. Warhammer = anti - Tolkien "all so exalted mixed-chorus-cuts-in high fantasy"
I get a kick out of how many people call it a wow clone without having a clue of how the game plays lol.
I'm going to play it on release, as i am playing it right now in beta, even in it's unfinished state I would play it over anything on the market as is. My suggestion to the majority QQing about not playing cause you've already played wow is to stop having such a closed mind and being a sheep and Baaaing the same thing every other person is saying.
I wouldn't be playing the Beta because they tend to disappoint me. And I won't try the game for at least after 6 months after release. MMOGs tend to change too much after that. Then I'll see what everyone is saying about it and then I might try the 10+1d4 -day trial.
Mostly because I'm getting tired of medieval MMOGs. Same goes for Age of Conan.
I won't be playing WAR because it is very structured like WoW. I want more of a sandbox game. If you view the developers game discussion videos, they explain in painful detail about the tiered zones and how you advance from zone 1 to zone 2 etc. in a linear fashion, very much how WoW does this with their quest system. While I can appreciate the simplicity of such a design for most casual gamers, I want a game which allows me much more freedom and promotes intelligent decison making and exploration as part of that freedom. I also won't be playing WAR because the developers have chosen to bastardize the game by selling ingame items and advantages as part of their preoder and collectors edition incentive. This is a disturbing trend which destroys the concept of a fair and level playing field. I refuse to pay more or pay early in order to not be at a disadvantage playing the game when it launches. It's one thing to start a game after launch and be expected to invest more time to catch up, but entirely unfair to start at a disadvantage because the developers are selling out like gold farmers and item shop games.
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Any of various freshwater or anadromous food and game fishes of the family Salmonidae, especially of the genera Salmo and Salvelinus, usually having a streamlined, speckled body with small scales.
Any of various similar but unrelated fishes, such as the troutperch.
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
If it's just like WoW, then why switch? That's what I find hard swallow.
Because its NOT like WoW the people who claim like wow have no evidence to back up their claims infact most of them have not read or watched or paid attention to the depth of the details. They make a bullet list or look at some pictures or just look at the race list that could be easily applied to every game ever made or being made including AoC. Atleast on this thread some of the reasons people aren't interested in warhammer are mostly personal like some like skill games or ffa games. Granted most of those will be stuck with EvE and dreams of darkfall forever.
btw the next person who whines over the CE should be trouted as another person mentioned. Those items are 1. Completely Statless! 2. The proc items are for PVE only repeat PVE only..if you try use them in PvP they will break. 3. The ingame items are no different than any other CE thats ever been released they dont' benefit you more than Jo Blow they're just some lil extras that are pretty cool for customization.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Ignore my other comment on this thread. Lets start from scratch:
HELL!!! WHAT THE ...F.. THREAD!?? I WI (sorry the use of uppercase)LL BE F*** PLAYING THE DAMN GAME FRM DAY ONE! I am waiting for WAR, as you and everybody else. Waiting for Conan and War. I will play then.
Are you ok? *recommends psychiatrist*
Playing: Nada. Played: WAR, LOTRO, EVE, WoW, EQ2, SWG, STO Waiting: TOR
Because everyone spends too much time trying to bash it... You are already hooked into it and do not realize this. You are corrupted.
With AoC being released unfinished, those people will look to WAR for hope, then maybe Darkfall at some point in the future.
Likely you will see a friend playing WAR, or a guildmate on Voice Chat who is talking about it... and you yourself will begin to think, well why not... nothing else is really coming out soon... and you will try it. You will dance with it and take a taste.
You will play it, if only briefly. You will not be able to claim purity.
Ever.
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt."
Honestly, I WISH I could get amped up for WAR. DAOC was my first MMO and if I seriously believed that WAR was going to be a newer, more improved version of DAOC, I'd be all over it. I followed the game a while back and, unfortunately, at that time it didn't seem like they were taking that direction. Of course, some things might have changed since then, so feel free to correct me. This is just wild speculation, but I'd expect them to improve on some areas of DAOC:
1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure.
2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve.
3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional.
4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?...
And then, some areas that probably won't change:
1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here.
2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world.
3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play.
And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC:
1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system.
2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?).
3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above.
Of course, if they manage to prove me wrong on most of these points I'll be more than willing to give credit where it's due. But, again, I'll believe it when I see it...
I won't be playing WAR because it is very structured like WoW. I want more of a sandbox game. If you view the developers game discussion videos, they explain in painful detail about the tiered zones and how you advance from zone 1 to zone 2 etc. in a linear fashion, very much how WoW does this with their quest system. While I can appreciate the simplicity of such a design for most casual gamers, I want a game which allows me much more freedom and promotes intelligent decison making and exploration as part of that freedom. I also won't be playing WAR because the developers have chosen to bastardize the game by selling ingame items and advantages as part of their preoder and collectors edition incentive. This is a disturbing trend which destroys the concept of a fair and level playing field. I refuse to pay more or pay early in order to not be at a disadvantage playing the game when it launches. It's one thing to start a game after launch and be expected to invest more time to catch up, but entirely unfair to start at a disadvantage because the developers are selling out like gold farmers and item shop games.
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Any of various freshwater or anadromous food and game fishes of the family Salmonidae, especially of the genera Salmo and Salvelinus, usually having a streamlined, speckled body with small scales.
Any of various similar but unrelated fishes, such as the troutperch.
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
I agree that beta testers gain a huge advantage by gaining knowledge of game mechanics, mob locations and drops, and beneficial bugs which often go unreported so they can be exploited later. Most beta testers volunteer for selfish reasons, to gain this knowledge prior to release as a leveling advantage. That should not shock anyone or be a surprise. You get what you pay for.
I am way ahead of you about discrediting the practice of game developers relying on free labor to test the game and uncover bugs and make recommendations. This practice is why so many games are released in crappy condition. MMOGs should employ a large QA testing pool to ensure quality. Paid employees are more likely to take testing seriously and game developers can hire legions of college students for minimal pay.
The traditional weekend or week long open beta for stress testing is the only time developers should open up the game to the public prior to release. The stress test is usually a short period of time and also open to everyone so no real advantage can be gained over others.
Honestly, I WISH I could get amped up for WAR. DAOC was my first MMO and if I seriously believed that WAR was going to be a newer, more improved version of DAOC, I'd be all over it. I followed the game a while back and, unfortunately, at that time it didn't seem like they were taking that direction. Of course, some things might have changed since then, so feel free to correct me. This is just wild speculation, but I'd expect them to improve on some areas of DAOC: 1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure. 2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve. 3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional. 4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?... And then, some areas that probably won't change: 1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here. 2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world. 3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play. And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC: 1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system. 2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?). 3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above. 4) Risk. Again, same explanation as #2. Of course, if they manage to prove me wrong on most of these points I'll be more than willing to give credit where it's due. But, again, I'll believe it when I see it...
I will try to answer these as well as possible but keep in mind since I am bound to the NDA some will be very vague and renditions of "trust me" or flat out no answers.
Starting from the top
1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure.
HUGE improvements Pve is actually fairly fun.
2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve.
See above.
3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional.
Not sure how many pod casts youve seen but the mastery lines allow lots of customization
4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?...
You are correct
And then, some areas that probably won't change:
1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here.
It's beta so as balanced as a beta could be but they are VERY receptive to testers suggestions.
2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world.
Suppose this is a personal thing and off the top of my head there aren't really any games that pvp has a significant effect on the game world
3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play.
As far from right as you can be lol, gear is very very inconsequential and has been said many times in grab bags/podcasts thats what they intend. Skill > Gear Big WoW difference for you (not you tatum) sheeps that just call this a WoW clone.
And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC:
1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system.
Build has an extremely large effect on how you play your class without gimping you one way or another going deep in a spec line makes your character play a certain way but you have the ability to be a jack of all trades and master of none.
2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?).
Imo personal decision, can't make that one for ya sorry.
3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above.
The denial of some fanbois is epic in proportion. This thread is about why peoples won't play WAR. Not about you trying to convince them otherwise. Mythic has plenty of brown-nosers and they need the harsh reality contact a little more. If you know what is good for you and your game, stop brown-nosing. I suspect SoE employees are non-stop praising this game, just so the devs make amazingly outrageous mistakes.
The lack of a real PvE focus where the WAR has no consequences, on a server, a race or whatever is just saying you accept to lose more than half of the market right away, while it would have taken minimal efforts to ensure they can at least enjoy the game a little.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I won't be playing WAR because it is very structured like WoW. I want more of a sandbox game. If you view the developers game discussion videos, they explain in painful detail about the tiered zones and how you advance from zone 1 to zone 2 etc. in a linear fashion, very much how WoW does this with their quest system. While I can appreciate the simplicity of such a design for most casual gamers, I want a game which allows me much more freedom and promotes intelligent decison making and exploration as part of that freedom. I also won't be playing WAR because the developers have chosen to bastardize the game by selling ingame items and advantages as part of their preoder and collectors edition incentive. This is a disturbing trend which destroys the concept of a fair and level playing field. I refuse to pay more or pay early in order to not be at a disadvantage playing the game when it launches. It's one thing to start a game after launch and be expected to invest more time to catch up, but entirely unfair to start at a disadvantage because the developers are selling out like gold farmers and item shop games.
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Any of various freshwater or anadromous food and game fishes of the family Salmonidae, especially of the genera Salmo and Salvelinus, usually having a streamlined, speckled body with small scales.
Any of various similar but unrelated fishes, such as the troutperch.
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
I agree that beta testers gain a huge advantage by gaining knowledge of game mechanics, mob locations and drops, and beneficial bugs which often go unreported so they can be exploited later. Most beta testers volunteer for selfish reasons, to gain this knowledge prior to release as a leveling advantage. That should not shock anyone or be a surprise. You get what you pay for.
I am way ahead of you about discrediting the practice of game developers relying on free labor to test the game and uncover bugs and make recommendations. This practice is why so many games are released in crappy condition. MMOGs should employ a large QA testing pool to ensure quality. Paid employees are more likely to take testing seriously and game developers can hire legions of college students for minimal pay.
The traditional weekend or week long open beta for stress testing is the only time developers should open up the game to the public prior to release. The stress test is usually a short period of time and also open to everyone so no real advantage can be gained over others.
Well considering you can get banned from beta and the game for exploiting bugs it's usually not something we practice. If you think out of roughly 30000 people not ONE of them will report a bug you are beyond gullible.
Ano, are you seriously trying to bash someone for providing information to a forumgoer who is obviously misinformed about a few minor important aspects of the game?
You really crack me up Anofalye...your lack of understanding of the WAR game design is astounding. WAR is a cooperative game...what you do in PvE helps PvPers and what PvPers do helps PvEers. Your playing an MMO ... games that thrive not only on competition but cooperation especially in an RvR game...just because you dont like the idea of having to work with PvPers doesn't mean the game is lacking in PvE.
Infact there's huge chunks of awsomeness for PvEers...infact without PvE ... alot of things can not even be accomplished. Just like the awsomeness of PvE can't be fully complete without alot of things being accomplished in the PvP areas. You dont have to PvP in order to enjoy the game, though the idea you wont' help at all ... just shows your lack of ability to comprehend what coop means.
This thread has been utterly ridiculous from the start and I'm surprised they haven't shut it down like they did a thread that was in favor of liking WAR...personally I call sheningans on the Mods for allowing this thread to continue in such an unconstructive manner when they locked a thread that was Pro WAR.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Scase, thank you for the corrections and info. Like I said, it's been a while since I've even looked into the game, so I was assuming some things had changed, just not sure how much.
PvE - thats good to hear. Last time I saw any video of pve (it's been a while) it looked fairly slow.
Character spec - yea, I haven't seen any of the podcasts lately. I'll have to look into that to see what they've done with it.
Gear - thats VERY interesting. Way back when I was keeping up, they were still giving kind of a flaky answer to that question. I think they were saying, as far as skill vs gear, that it was along the lines of "50/50". If they really have toned the gear down, thats good news.
Also, I'd heard that they were placing more emphasis on the open world pvp now (instead of instances). How is that working out?
1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure. There's only 40 pve levels..these levels have by the devs themselves been called 'introductory levels' That being said there's RvR meat at ever level of the game. There's very little you won't get to do right from the get go. Want to PvP from the start adn only pvp? You can..because you get xp for it (they've said a good mix of both is the best path) 2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve. Their pve is a huge step up from anything out there. Public quests, random hidden quests, random mobs, hidden locations, tome of knowledge (you've gotta look this up its bad ass), unlocks, city levels (yes your city is a living city it has levels! the higher it is the more cool crap you have access too!). Their city siege even encorporates nice yummy chunks of PvE that...well if you wanna fully PWN your enemy's city you have to complete. so while PvPers are tearing up the streets the pvers will be pwning the npcs 3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional. from what they've siad they're very 2 to 3 dimensional...it'll take hands on to really be able to gather any sort of opinion and even then thats a subjective subject. 4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?... no uber stealth And then, some areas that probably won't change: 1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here. im with you on this one.but this relates to EVERY mmo ever released ... and not just WAR. 2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world. Totally wrong wrong wrong! The whole game thrives on everything you do. RvR, keeps sieges, city sieges all of it benefit you. You gain levels, you gain RvR ranks, you gain world and personal unlocks. Your city's advance due to your progress in the war effort. Everything matters right down to how many innocent npcs you slaughter. 3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play. They've expressed only 40 percent or less is based on gear. If you can't figure your class out ... gear will not save you. And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC: 1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system. Totaly wrong you should see the Career System videos from Paris & tentonhammer...its crazy the customization you have at your very finger tips. Hundreds and hundreds of possiblities. 2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?). WAR does have something for everyone. Open RvR & Keeps for those long hour players and Scenario instanced pvp for casual pvpers that last up to 15 mins. Both matter and both gain points & xp for your Realm & City & you. PvEers...there's dungeons & pqs. The PQ's repeat every 5 mins after they're completed and last maybe 15 to 30 mins. PQ's are...awsome you really need to find the various videos on these. 3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above. Its crazy the depth they describe...if everything is how they've said ...and shown at shows...It'll be probably the most indepth game thats come out in the past four years. 4) Risk. Again, same explanation as #2. Of course, if they manage to prove me wrong on most of these points I'll be more than willing to give credit where it's due. But, again, I'll believe it when I see it... I'm with you on this sentiement I'm totaly hyped and excited for WAR though. But at the same time im skeptical...can they pull it off? Is it true? Sources say it is...and I guess thats why I'm all for supporting the game with the knowledge that is available beyond just what Mythic says.
Just to be straight with you im answering these because it appears you're looking for answers and another posters reply didn't seem adequate considering the wealth of knowledge available. So anything in red is me I'm not here to change your mind..people like what they like..some like FFA, some like skill systems, some like Open Player controlled worlds etc. WAR is a story driven world meaning yes it is structured but yet you can still do whatever you want and carve your own personal path. Everything matters...and I mean everything.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
The denial of some fanbois is epic in proportion. This thread is about why peoples won't play WAR. Not about you trying to convince them otherwise. Mythic has plenty of brown-nosers and they need the harsh reality contact a little more. If you know what is good for you and your game, stop brown-nosing. I suspect SoE employees are non-stop praising this game, just so the devs make amazingly outrageous mistakes.
The lack of a real PvE focus where the WAR has no consequences, on a server, a race or whatever is just saying you accept to lose more than half of the market right away, while it would have taken minimal efforts to ensure they can at least enjoy the game a little.
Your first paragraph:
You too will play, you are not strong enough to resist.
Your second paragraph:
Nearly every MMORPG will have to have some sort of PvE aspect to it, but the problem arises when you try to build in PvP into a game that is already filled with PvE. The design and stability of the game begins to suffer. I'll point to WoW as an implementation of PvP as an afterthought, and how horrible it was for so long (at least a year and a half IMO).
WAR's practice is the design of a game based on PvP, and then adding in PvE content once your PvP is balanced. Far easier, and less messy when it comes to rebalancing. Since your classes are already balanced for PvP, it becomes very easy to throw in PvE content based around those abilities that currently exist in game. So while their focus is on PvP in many of their updates and information, do not be scared that they are not working on PvE material.
In their most recent update you can find them discussing: "Each city, we are told, will also be home to three separate six-player instanced dungeons."
And like the wonderful elvenangel point out, WAR is a cooperative game. "One of the trends in MMORPGs as of late has steered toward solo play, prompting many to wonder if the days of co-operation in these games are behind us."
WAR is trying to push back towards some form of coop play by making PvP affect PvE and vice versa. The whole faction works as a group to make their faction stronger and better. In PvE and PvP, everyone benefits.
While the devs touted being able to level to max level just through PvP, don't take that as you have to PvP, it is just an alternate option for those who don't particularly like PvE.
Aww im not that wonderful LiquidWolf...I'm just in an unusually good mood because A, its friday and B. my pay check just came in rofl course sucks major that most of that check has just gone to bills for the month lol
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Comments
You seem to just not like fantasy MMO's at all... so that gives me the question. Why are you trolling a fantasy MMO's boards?
Playing: Nada.
Played: WAR, LOTRO, EVE, WoW, EQ2, SWG, STO
Waiting: TOR
Fantasy is much more than elfs and midgets with beards.....
Omgzwtf they kill kittens! (*goes to amazon to cancel pre-order*)
Yeah, and Paul Barnett EATS them!
While I am planning to play WAR, your assumption is flawed. I post in all sorts of forums/threads for games I've never played, and never plan to play.
I'm going to play AOC, but only because its first to market, had WAR, AION of CoS released at the same time, I'd have to really think about what I was going to try first.
I may never get to all games out there, but I certainly can comment on them, and no, I won't necessarily even beta them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You seem to just not like fantasy MMO's at all... so that gives me the question. Why are you trolling a fantasy MMO's boards?
The answer to this is simple, this topic is on the actives front page, you dont need to go to the forumns section to see this.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Yeah, but Warhammer actually started out as an over-the-top parody of elfs and midgets with beards.... and it still retains this attitude. Warhammer = anti - Tolkien "all so exalted mixed-chorus-cuts-in high fantasy"
I get a kick out of how many people call it a wow clone without having a clue of how the game plays lol.
I'm going to play it on release, as i am playing it right now in beta, even in it's unfinished state I would play it over anything on the market as is. My suggestion to the majority QQing about not playing cause you've already played wow is to stop having such a closed mind and being a sheep and Baaaing the same thing every other person is saying.
I wouldn't be playing the Beta because they tend to disappoint me. And I won't try the game for at least after 6 months after release. MMOGs tend to change too much after that. Then I'll see what everyone is saying about it and then I might try the 10+1d4 -day trial.
Mostly because I'm getting tired of medieval MMOGs. Same goes for Age of Conan.
If it's just like WoW, then why switch? That's what I find hard swallow.
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
Because its NOT like WoW the people who claim like wow have no evidence to back up their claims infact most of them have not read or watched or paid attention to the depth of the details. They make a bullet list or look at some pictures or just look at the race list that could be easily applied to every game ever made or being made including AoC. Atleast on this thread some of the reasons people aren't interested in warhammer are mostly personal like some like skill games or ffa games. Granted most of those will be stuck with EvE and dreams of darkfall forever.
btw the next person who whines over the CE should be trouted as another person mentioned. Those items are 1. Completely Statless! 2. The proc items are for PVE only repeat PVE only..if you try use them in PvP they will break. 3. The ingame items are no different than any other CE thats ever been released they dont' benefit you more than Jo Blow they're just some lil extras that are pretty cool for customization.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Ignore my other comment on this thread.
Lets start from scratch:
HELL!!! WHAT THE ...F.. THREAD!??
I WI (sorry the use of uppercase)LL BE F*** PLAYING THE DAMN GAME FRM DAY ONE!
I am waiting for WAR, as you and everybody else. Waiting for Conan and War.
I will play then.
Are you ok? *recommends psychiatrist*
Playing: Nada.
Played: WAR, LOTRO, EVE, WoW, EQ2, SWG, STO
Waiting: TOR
Everyone will be playing WAR. Why?
Because everyone spends too much time trying to bash it... You are already hooked into it and do not realize this. You are corrupted.
With AoC being released unfinished, those people will look to WAR for hope, then maybe Darkfall at some point in the future.
Likely you will see a friend playing WAR, or a guildmate on Voice Chat who is talking about it... and you yourself will begin to think, well why not... nothing else is really coming out soon... and you will try it. You will dance with it and take a taste.
You will play it, if only briefly. You will not be able to claim purity.
Ever.
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt."
Honestly, I WISH I could get amped up for WAR. DAOC was my first MMO and if I seriously believed that WAR was going to be a newer, more improved version of DAOC, I'd be all over it. I followed the game a while back and, unfortunately, at that time it didn't seem like they were taking that direction. Of course, some things might have changed since then, so feel free to correct me. This is just wild speculation, but I'd expect them to improve on some areas of DAOC:
1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure.
2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve.
3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional.
4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?...
And then, some areas that probably won't change:
1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here.
2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world.
3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play.
And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC:
1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system.
2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?).
3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above.
4) Risk. Again, same explanation as #2.
Of course, if they manage to prove me wrong on most of these points I'll be more than willing to give credit where it's due. But, again, I'll believe it when I see it...
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
I agree that beta testers gain a huge advantage by gaining knowledge of game mechanics, mob locations and drops, and beneficial bugs which often go unreported so they can be exploited later. Most beta testers volunteer for selfish reasons, to gain this knowledge prior to release as a leveling advantage. That should not shock anyone or be a surprise. You get what you pay for.
I am way ahead of you about discrediting the practice of game developers relying on free labor to test the game and uncover bugs and make recommendations. This practice is why so many games are released in crappy condition. MMOGs should employ a large QA testing pool to ensure quality. Paid employees are more likely to take testing seriously and game developers can hire legions of college students for minimal pay.
The traditional weekend or week long open beta for stress testing is the only time developers should open up the game to the public prior to release. The stress test is usually a short period of time and also open to everyone so no real advantage can be gained over others.
I will try to answer these as well as possible but keep in mind since I am bound to the NDA some will be very vague and renditions of "trust me" or flat out no answers.
Starting from the top
1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game. Seems like they've improved there for sure.
HUGE improvements Pve is actually fairly fun.
2) Bland pve. Don't see how they couldn't improve here. DAOC really did have some boring pve.
See above.
3) Class flexibility/complexity. I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional.
Not sure how many pod casts youve seen but the mastery lines allow lots of customization
4) Uber stealth classes. As far as I know, still none of these...right?...
You are correct
And then, some areas that probably won't change:
1) Horrible class balance. Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here.
It's beta so as balanced as a beta could be but they are VERY receptive to testers suggestions.
2) Meaningless pvp. Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world.
Suppose this is a personal thing and off the top of my head there aren't really any games that pvp has a significant effect on the game world
3) Gear centric. Don't see this one changing. Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play.
As far from right as you can be lol, gear is very very inconsequential and has been said many times in grab bags/podcasts thats what they intend. Skill > Gear Big WoW difference for you (not you tatum) sheeps that just call this a WoW clone.
And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC:
1) Character spec/build. DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were. The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up. Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time. LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system.
Build has an extremely large effect on how you play your class without gimping you one way or another going deep in a spec line makes your character play a certain way but you have the ability to be a jack of all trades and master of none.
2) Challenge. Again, another current trend. If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful. Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?).
Imo personal decision, can't make that one for ya sorry.
3) Depth of gameplay and game world. Basically, same as above.
Gameworld is fairly detailed and deep.
4) Risk. Again, same explanation as #2.
Aside from UO I don't think any games really have a risk for playing the game.
Hope I helped quell any inconceptions you may have had/worried about
The denial of some fanbois is epic in proportion. This thread is about why peoples won't play WAR. Not about you trying to convince them otherwise. Mythic has plenty of brown-nosers and they need the harsh reality contact a little more. If you know what is good for you and your game, stop brown-nosing. I suspect SoE employees are non-stop praising this game, just so the devs make amazingly outrageous mistakes.
The lack of a real PvE focus where the WAR has no consequences, on a server, a race or whatever is just saying you accept to lose more than half of the market right away, while it would have taken minimal efforts to ensure they can at least enjoy the game a little.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Part I? Fair Play and completely understandable, it's reasonably informed and if nothing else a rational feeling.
Part II? You are going to be playing consoles or nothing. AoC is offering mounts and items for pre-order and items for CE, Aion comes via NCSOFT so more than a little bit safe to assume they'll offer pre-order and CE items as well. Sure there are other MMOs coming and most (if not all) will offer incentives in the form of items in Pre-orders and CEs.
Heres a fact (I do mean FACT), Any tester (and/or experienced gamer) I know will tell you flatly that knowing how a game plays, the quests, skills/powers/abilities/stats, class strengths, class weaknesses, mobs, and maps will take you a good deal farther than some dinky pos item that MIGHT be useful for MAYBE 10 levels. If you've gamed enough you'll know quickly how true it is, later on (what, like a month tops?) it won't matter in the least as twinking will usually come into play and the "ohemgee no faer itumz!" has become laughable at best.
Wait... How long until you types start crying for tester nerfs? Let me assure you that without having been in CB or a leaked copy of the game then you WILL be behind the power curve, you WILL be on uneven footing, and no amount of IMAGINED pre-order/CE omfg imba/OP perks will change that (short of the omfgwtfbbq sword/axe/cudgel/feather duster of PWN... but they told me they were fresh out of stock when I called =/). So how long?
I'm to the point that I'd really like to trout the next person I see whining about Pre-order/CE's in the hopes they'll carry their reward back to their people and whine for a trouting nerf so I can has lulz.
P.S. For those unaware of what Trouting is...
Trout, to trout, trouting : To take a fresh trout by the tail and beat one profusely about the head and shoulders with said fishes.
Beforewarned.. I played PnP when I was younger, I have my D20 2hnd dw mastery with ranger bonus profs and have been known to carp all over people.
I agree that beta testers gain a huge advantage by gaining knowledge of game mechanics, mob locations and drops, and beneficial bugs which often go unreported so they can be exploited later. Most beta testers volunteer for selfish reasons, to gain this knowledge prior to release as a leveling advantage. That should not shock anyone or be a surprise. You get what you pay for.
I am way ahead of you about discrediting the practice of game developers relying on free labor to test the game and uncover bugs and make recommendations. This practice is why so many games are released in crappy condition. MMOGs should employ a large QA testing pool to ensure quality. Paid employees are more likely to take testing seriously and game developers can hire legions of college students for minimal pay.
The traditional weekend or week long open beta for stress testing is the only time developers should open up the game to the public prior to release. The stress test is usually a short period of time and also open to everyone so no real advantage can be gained over others.
Well considering you can get banned from beta and the game for exploiting bugs it's usually not something we practice. If you think out of roughly 30000 people not ONE of them will report a bug you are beyond gullible.Ano, are you seriously trying to bash someone for providing information to a forumgoer who is obviously misinformed about a few minor important aspects of the game?
You really crack me up Anofalye...your lack of understanding of the WAR game design is astounding. WAR is a cooperative game...what you do in PvE helps PvPers and what PvPers do helps PvEers. Your playing an MMO ... games that thrive not only on competition but cooperation especially in an RvR game...just because you dont like the idea of having to work with PvPers doesn't mean the game is lacking in PvE.
Infact there's huge chunks of awsomeness for PvEers...infact without PvE ... alot of things can not even be accomplished. Just like the awsomeness of PvE can't be fully complete without alot of things being accomplished in the PvP areas. You dont have to PvP in order to enjoy the game, though the idea you wont' help at all ... just shows your lack of ability to comprehend what coop means.
This thread has been utterly ridiculous from the start and I'm surprised they haven't shut it down like they did a thread that was in favor of liking WAR...personally I call sheningans on the Mods for allowing this thread to continue in such an unconstructive manner when they locked a thread that was Pro WAR.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Scase, thank you for the corrections and info.
Like I said, it's been a while since I've even looked into the game, so I was assuming some things had changed, just not sure how much.
PvE - thats good to hear. Last time I saw any video of pve (it's been a while) it looked fairly slow.
Character spec - yea, I haven't seen any of the podcasts lately. I'll have to look into that to see what they've done with it.
Gear - thats VERY interesting. Way back when I was keeping up, they were still giving kind of a flaky answer to that question. I think they were saying, as far as skill vs gear, that it was along the lines of "50/50". If they really have toned the gear down, thats good news.
Also, I'd heard that they were placing more emphasis on the open world pvp now (instead of instances). How is that working out?
Just to be straight with you im answering these because it appears you're looking for answers and another posters reply didn't seem adequate considering the wealth of knowledge available. So anything in red is me
I'm not here to change your mind..people like what they like..some like FFA, some like skill systems, some like Open Player controlled worlds etc. WAR is a story driven world meaning yes it is structured but yet you can still do whatever you want and carve your own personal path. Everything matters...and I mean everything.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Your first paragraph:
You too will play, you are not strong enough to resist.
Your second paragraph:
Nearly every MMORPG will have to have some sort of PvE aspect to it, but the problem arises when you try to build in PvP into a game that is already filled with PvE. The design and stability of the game begins to suffer. I'll point to WoW as an implementation of PvP as an afterthought, and how horrible it was for so long (at least a year and a half IMO).
WAR's practice is the design of a game based on PvP, and then adding in PvE content once your PvP is balanced. Far easier, and less messy when it comes to rebalancing. Since your classes are already balanced for PvP, it becomes very easy to throw in PvE content based around those abilities that currently exist in game. So while their focus is on PvP in many of their updates and information, do not be scared that they are not working on PvE material.
In their most recent update you can find them discussing: "Each city, we are told, will also be home to three separate six-player instanced dungeons."
And like the wonderful elvenangel point out, WAR is a cooperative game. "One of the trends in MMORPGs as of late has steered toward solo play, prompting many to wonder if the days of co-operation in these games are behind us."
WAR is trying to push back towards some form of coop play by making PvP affect PvE and vice versa. The whole faction works as a group to make their faction stronger and better. In PvE and PvP, everyone benefits.
While the devs touted being able to level to max level just through PvP, don't take that as you have to PvP, it is just an alternate option for those who don't particularly like PvE.
There is more than enough of PvE.
Aww im not that wonderful LiquidWolf...I'm just in an unusually good mood because A, its friday and B. my pay check just came in rofl
course sucks major that most of that check has just gone to bills for the month lol
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!