I only played the free trial an its a cool game, hell i love it just for the character customization! i love that. i wish more mmo's would do that. i havent played a game where i could customize how my toon looked on a decent scale since UO. iv missed it since then an CoH/V blows it away. I just dont want to pay a sub fee for it cuz im playin other games and waiting on WAR.. but i still think mmo's should do large scale customizing like that. i hate seeing people who are the same class looking just like me. armor dye only goes so far.. ya know? lol (but thank god they have that atleast in WAR, i HATED that you couldent dye stuff in games like wow)
I only played the free trial an its a cool game, hell i love it just for the character customization! i love that. i wish more mmo's would do that. i havent played a game where i could customize how my toon looked on a decent scale since UO. iv missed it since then an CoH/V blows it away. I just dont want to pay a sub fee for it cuz im playin other games and waiting on WAR.. but i still think mmo's should do large scale customizing like that. i hate seeing people who are the same class looking just like me. armor dye only goes so far.. ya know? lol (but thank god they have that atleast in WAR, i HATED that you couldent dye stuff in games like wow)
I agree, character customization is #1 in mmos, but nerfs suck.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
Well I would classify it as a mission based story driven MMO lacking in mission quality and story. Either make a game sandbox and attract to the niche crowd, or make it rich in story with quality missions ala WoW. If they would have added more sandbox elements, removed levels and made it 100% skill based, added real world player housing, focused more on super bases and labs, and fleshed out the economy to be more player driven it would be attracting a good bit of players.
At the same time if it would have just made it level based with minimal customization, end game gear grind, levels, in depth missions, in depth story, and meaningless pvp then it could attract more as well.
Right now it's just kind of in the middle and it gives everyone who leans on any side of any fence a reason to cancel their sub at least once a month.
Well anyone that says IO's aren't any good til 50 obviously either (1) hasn't played since Issue 9 or (2) didn't bother with them. Besides earning the various badges for crafting them, some of the set bonuses are quite nice at lower levels.
Not to mention certain IO's are actually better at a lower level than at 50. Example: some IO's give a flat bonus to something, such as 5% chance to build up each time that power is used. Now if you exemplar down to more than 3 levels below the level of that IO... it doesn't work. So if I had all 50 IO's some would stop working if I exemplared lower than 47.
Missions are heavily story based. I think some people don't bother to read why they are doing what they are doing. Plus if you think it's repetative, go play EQ1 and camp raster for the monk epic. You don't like cave missions, then don't pick them. Cimerora, RWZ, Flashback missions were all added in the last 3 patches. Would take a long time to work through all of them before they started getting "repetative".
Well anyone that says IO's aren't any good til 50 obviously either (1) hasn't played since Issue 9 or (2) didn't bother with them. Besides earning the various badges for crafting them, some of the set bonuses are quite nice at lower levels. Not to mention certain IO's are actually better at a lower level than at 50. Example: some IO's give a flat bonus to something, such as 5% chance to build up each time that power is used. Now if you exemplar down to more than 3 levels below the level of that IO... it doesn't work. So if I had all 50 IO's some would stop working if I exemplared lower than 47. Missions are heavily story based. I think some people don't bother to read why they are doing what they are doing. Plus if you think it's repetative, go play EQ1 and camp raster for the monk epic. You don't like cave missions, then don't pick them. Cimerora, RWZ, Flashback missions were all added in the last 3 patches. Would take a long time to work through all of them before they started getting "repetative".
{ Mod Edit } I said they're not really worth it til 50 unless they are unique imo, its not like most players don't agree, all ya gotta do is look at their personal info or ask em. I lvl to 50 in less than a month because I recruit teams and play normally +4-6 my lvl til this last toon( blaster) and with xp smoothing its actually gotten too fast to 50. So lvls fly by and I respec ( got 2 vet respecs) and sell my SOs when they get red in the 40s. Since i/os don't out do Sos til almost 30, money spent on them prior to that will give less benefit on their primary unless unique. Also since I left at issue 10 and have been back for months, apparently its not "obvious" I haven't played since issue 9 and yes I tried them after some suggested to, but why spend the time or money? I've gotten I/os at 40 before since thats when they start to outdo 50 SOs, but I usually just buy the 40 and 45 SOs since their cheaper and faster to get and I respec to get money back for them at 47. Doesn't matter if its cost effective or even if lower non-unique i/os benefit a bit more, I only want 50 i/os on my toon whan I get to 50 and have only but so many respecs to use, if I frankenslot on the way up I'm gonna end up just slotting over most eventually or paying money for a respec token or doing the respec TF when I don't want to.
Oh, and yes, most people don't bother to read "why" they're doing what their doing because you're doing the same thing you always do, putting a different spin on it changes nothing. They're also not playing to bone up on meaningless story trivia, they're there to log in, play and log out. I played EQ1back when a Wurmslayer was considered a top flight weapon, and I was the only shadowknight on Vallon Zek that I saw actually use one (with a shield) at my lvl. That game was repetitive if you were camping for a specific drop, or stayed in the same spot, but for the most part had many maps and dungeons, all of which were persistant, and whose story held some interest because the enemies you fought and where you fought them were so varied. Fighting Orcs in crushbone, with pks lurking about and butchering almost the whole zone at times, was different from fighting drow in Mistmoore with player corpses strewn all over the floor from mistmoores troops or fighting Kromzek giants in Velious or various monsters in Unrest, where it was a battle to even get thru the zone entrance sometimes because of trains. That game was frustrating tho because it was really targeted for the hardcore player, at least on my server, I mean it might take you an hour just to get somewhere, and the ability to lose xp and/or a lvl and the powers that came with it , and of course the PKs and the ultraslow grind at 35, so I quit it more than 6 years ago, because I prefer casual play, in then out, have fun and done, and thanks to sk'ing/mentoring, doesn't matter if you outlvl or are outlvld by your online peers, you can still always team. With coh, the combat experience and dynamics are essentially the same at every lvl, making the story behind it meaningless, I mean it doesn't matter if I'm rescuing Wanda Sims from the cot or Carnival, or if the freaks have some alloy or some machine, if I know how to fight them. With any group, they have their skills to overcome and you build the team to do that, its fun, but it is repetitive. Btw, how do you NOT choose a cave mish, I think all of Paragon would like to know, if its an arc, do you just quit, does it say cave in most cases? or maybe autocomplete every 3 days? I mean how do you know what map the next mission is gonna be on before you pick it on a radio? Also, a flashback mission by definition is rehashing the old missions which are no different than most of the other mishes given at higher levels, I've done RWZ mishes til my eyes bled including the TF and they are super repetative, couldn't care less about Cimerora, by the time that came along I was only interested in pvp. You see Drow, most players in coh are casual and just like to play, if they can get some extra stuff they'll do what they have to to get it, but the story is essentially irrelevant which is why you never really hear people talk about the "stories", just what arc will get them what they want. Badge hunting has its moments, but only for accolades imo, I mean wtfrig to I care about getting a badge that doesn't benefit in any real way? To show off? To who exactly?
For me Coh is a casual, action driven game attuned to teaming, apparently you are a hardcore player that actually cares why you are going to go stomp some vill and have some belief in the rationale for doing so , perhaps you see coh as more of a virtual world than a game and therefore can't understand that most people see the reasons for doing anything in it as universal: xp,inf and/or fun. So instead of getting your stockings all bunged up wondering why everyone else is so crazy for saying its repetitive, maybe you need to assess why you you can't enjoy it for what you like it for and have your opinion, and let us enjoy it for what we like it for and have ours.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
As a long-time CoX player (perma subscribed since release) this is an interesting thread for me. I've enjoyed the game all this time although I shift around alts a lot and have only one L50 character!
I guess the question I have is less "what are the problems" with CoX as the same information comes out - no loot and repetitveness - and this has been addressed to a great degree.
The question is perhaps... what do you enjoy in the MMO you do play?
One thing of note is the fact that people bemoan the number of instances in the game. Why? Why not "street-sweep" and enjoy the scenery? Each city zone is actually pretty damn large and you could easily level to 50 if that was the type of game you want to play.
Is the problem that all the quest/mission givers direct you to instances rather than to the outside world? Is it a lack of handholding in that regard?
I must admit, I'm one of those who finds the "repetitive" criticism a bit baffling. In terms of variety of graphics, tilesets, etc., and quest stories (which I do read and think are good) CoX is no more repetitive than any other game, and in fact it's less repetitive in some ways, because combat with one combination of powersets can feel completely different against the same mobs from another combination of powersets.
I think what gives the feeling that CoX is more repetitive that other MMOs is partly the psychological thing of it being set in the city rather than the country, but mostly the map layouts - (not the graphics/tilesets but the actual layouts) there are like 4 or 5 standard "office" layouts, 4 or 5 standard "mine" layouts, etc., etc. Once you've had few heroes to 50 and have numerous alts (like most hardcore CoX-ers ) you get to know all those layouts, so the missions go by rote, you're almost on automatic pilot, because you know:
"Ah yes, there;'s the L-shaped corridor that goes to the left, after going through that there will be some mobs just around the corner, then there's that corridor that goes into the little room with that has stairs going down at the end of it" etc., etc., etc., etc.
It's this that gives the game a repetitive feeling. If Cryptic would just introduce about an equal number of layout types for each tileset as they already have, and jumble them all up again, it would, I am sure, give the game an added burst of longevity.
I was huge fan of the game and enjoyed it imensely.
The repetitivness comes in exactly as you said - using the same mapsets over and over. As you go through the levels the villians change but the maps really don't, nor do the missions vary substantially. What finally burned me out on it was when I hit a point where I literally got the exact same set of missions from all of my contacts with the only variance being the villian. You can only rescue 12 magicians so many times before it stops being fun.
Now to be fair, I have not played in quite a while so maybe this has drastically changed - and I hope that it has. I have played alot of MMOs and City of Heroes was one of the ones I enjoyed the most.
I enjoyed this game for some time. Enjoyed the character creation, the flying, etc. But the game became nothing but a repetitious burden. I got bored. Nothing really to grab me by the coconuts and keep me playing. The only thing that was fun was the costume contests.
I was huge fan of the game and enjoyed it imensely. The repetitivness comes in exactly as you said - using the same mapsets over and over. As you go through the levels the villians change but the maps really don't, nor do the missions vary substantially. What finally burned me out on it was when I hit a point where I literally got the exact same set of missions from all of my contacts with the only variance being the villian. You can only rescue 12 magicians so many times before it stops being fun. Now to be fair, I have not played in quite a while so maybe this has drastically changed - and I hope that it has. I have played alot of MMOs and City of Heroes was one of the ones I enjoyed the most.
To be fair, they have over time introduced some really cool mission arcs - especially the revamped Faultline, which has some great missions with unique maps mixed in with the generic ones. Also the Croatoa missions are nice, because a lot of them are outdoors in a strange magical landscape, and there are quite nice strategic touches there.
There's no doubt that if there were tons more variation in missions, CoX would be a much bigger hit. But that would require inordinate amounts of work.
Which all points to the problem that CoX had from the start - not enough "traditional MMO trappings" that are cheap to implement and absorb peoples' time, like crafting. Crafting was introduced a few issues ago and gave the game another boost of life - had it been in from the beginning it might have kept a lot of the initial burst of subscribers happy.
However, given that CoX has always had this problem of not enough "traditional MMO stuff", it's done remarkably well. And that's a tribute, I think, to the strength of the combat system (its immersiveness primarily, but also its cleverness), the amazingness of the character creation, and the ease with which it's possible to form PUGs with people of widely disparate levels, and tailor mission difficulty to team composition.
Gah, it's an amazing game. I've had so much pleasure out of it, well worth the money. But after 3 years, and knowing everything pretty much inside out, I just have to move on.
I will say though, that while I've been trying loads of MMOs, I find the big problem with them all is that in every other MMO I've been trying, I find myself soloing far more than teaming. In CoX I hardly ever had to solo, it was always a choice. Something about the way most other MMOs are set up makes teaming harder than in CoX, and that's really CoX's "secret weapon" - it makes CoX a very social gaming experience, even despite the missing "traditional MMO elements".
Ive heard its got a steady amount of people playing but why is it not big?
Repetitiveness.
I played CoH for a couple of years. Fantastic game. Superb game design in character customisation and group gameplay. But it's just one instanced mission after the other, in tragically familiar environments and fighting similarly tragically familiar mobs.
It completely lacks "world" factor - and this is exacerbated by travel powers. You go from one repetitive mission to the next as quickly as possible and the world is just something that blurs by.
IMO the game would be much improved by:
severely nerfing / removing travel powers
clustering missions in smaller areas (since players would no longer be traversing entire zones in 20 seconds)
They would loose me as a player for life if they did this. My biggest grip on every other MMO is how they force you to travel slowly to keep your cash flowing longer because you spend half your time in game traveling. Sure this might make those missions seem more repetive but that is if you dont bother flying around, checking things out. My biggest complaint is the repetive missions and I wish the graphics engine would get an update to DirectX 10 with good shaders etc. Champions Online is actually going to be more cartoon like and will probably not get my hard earned cash. I am hoping for a Heroes type game where the graphics are more realistic sometime in the future and I sure hope it is from Cryptic. In fact if the paid expansion included an update to the graphics engine, that alone would get my cash long as all zones I travel in got the update
Cith of Heroes/Villians -------------------------- Heroes: Xenomorph 50 scrapper - Virtue Polar Force 50 Blaster - Virtue
They would loose me as a player for life if they did this. My biggest grip on every other MMO is how they force you to travel slowly to keep your cash flowing longer because you spend half your time in game traveling. Sure this might make those missions seem more repetive but that is if you dont bother flying around, checking things out. My biggest complaint is the repetive missions and I wish the graphics engine would get an update to DirectX 10 with good shaders etc. Champions Online is actually going to be more cartoon like and will probably not get my hard earned cash. I am hoping for a Heroes type game where the graphics are more realistic sometime in the future and I sure hope it is from Cryptic. In fact if the paid expansion included an update to the graphics engine, that alone would get my cash long as all zones I travel in got the update
I love the travel powers. They really are fun and add to the whole comic book feel. But they exacerbate the game's only serious problem - it's repetitiveness. Travel powers let you literally shoot from one mission to the next and that mission content is the problem.
Fly around and check things out? How do your team-mates feel about you dawdling between missions?
This particular suggestion - all of it together, not just the travel power nerf/removal - comes from experience in other mmos. Repetitiveness is a problem in all games to some extent, but good game design can minimise it.
The typical setup in other mmos to minimise repetitiveness is that for any given player level there will be 2-4 visually distinct and often geographically distant areas. If the game is good then mobs in those different areas will also behave differently / have different attacks.
So if the gameplay starts to feel repetitive, players can pack themselves up and go somewhere else for a fresh look/feel.
CoX's design emphasises missions. Their visuals are very repetitive and common across the full range of maps. The same is true of mobs.
The reason that CoX has always needed travel powers is that for any particular level you can be given missions across a wide range of maps. If instead they localised the missions and removed the need for players to travel such long distances.... then travel powers wouldn't be needed. If at the same time they worked on the graphics and gave both the indoor and outdoor areas of different zones more unique flavours, then it could reduce that repetitive feel.
Frankly, I'm sick of the game after playing for 5 months.
Upon reaching level 50 for the 3rd time (and getting 90%+ of all badges on each of them), all I have left to do is "farm" the same missions repeatedly or join in PvP... and neither of which are entertaining in the least. So, either grind or play with the less respectable, more immature side of the community in which everyone has an ego problem.
So I joined a Super Group a few months ago. It was pretty fun to actually feel needed in a guild without having to play every day (earning prestige). The idea is great in concept... but in practice... you're just an ant in a colony working towards getting all the base goodies. Nobody's your peer unless your rank dictates it, and I have a problem with that.
I personally prefer to avoid 'serious' SGs/guilds and those who take them seriously, but unfortunately this game is packed with the lot of them.
Too many groups take themselves too seriously and have piles of rules and dogma that you must follow or you'll be removed; that or the leaders see themselves as above all others and demand loyalty through conformism and grunt work.
I already have a job where I have to dress up for work, kiss my boss's arse at every turn, and do the same darned thing repeatedly every day until I retire... so you'll forgive me if I don't enjoy paying for the same experience in my free time.
Hm, that list of complaints looks pretty familiar...
I guess these are just a few minor gripes you'll see on any MMORPG board. Nothing really unique about the way the game works, so there's nothing unique about the complaints.
So there's your hidden answer: this game is nothing special. You'll get no spectacular amount of people playing it for that very reason.
The game has (well, had) the potential to become big. At this point it is simply too old... in a sense it isn't, but the MMORPG community is an extremely picky crowd with high expectations. Anything over two years old (excluding WoW) is considered moot in the eyes of many. You know this, is one of the things that's steadily pushing me away from MMOs. When a genre with "long-term play - possibly years" at the heart of its design begins to have a shelf-life, there's a problem.
I still say it goes back to the traditional console gamers coming to MMOs and expecting - when not outright demanding - many of those console-like factors to be implemented...
The genre is no longer about creating a character and setting out on a long journey where you can do any number of things and meet any number of people along the way. Getting to level cap or end-game was an abstract concept; a very long-term goal at most. Now it's all about "race to end game as fast as possible to get all the best loot"; which, in my opinion, is that console-centric "win the game as fast as possible" mindset coming into play. I never heard people complain about it "taking too long to get to end game" back then. Never heard all those too-oft parroted rationales of "I have a full-time job", "I don't live in my mother's basement", etc... All of which are only a "problem" because the individual makes it one via their "race race race" approach to playing. There simply is no room for such conceit, and here's why... People who started out in UO, EQ, etc. held full-time jobs, raised families and such, too. They still did just fine in the slower-paced MMOs. The difference was they weren't in a hurry. They didn't log into the game for the first time already concerned about how quickly they could power-level to end-game. This is where perception comes in... Getting somewhere only "takes too long" when you're in a hurry to get there, or have expectations of getting there in a certain amount of time.
Back before the "console gamer mentality" took hold, more often than not, if it took a player over a year to get to the higher levels, hey no biggie. As long as they were having fun along the way, that's what was important. Somewhere along the line, the concept of "the game begins at level cap" has taken root and overtaken the genre. And the genre is worse for it, in my opinion. The other side to that is the whole band-wagon jumping thing happening now. Or the need people have to feel like they're playing the "newest and best" MMO on the market. So many now start new MMOs already planning to leave for the newest one when it comes out... which they're ready to leave when the new one after that comes out. Again... the console mentality at play... "play the game, then move on to the next". Again, I never saw this behavior before the more "console-centric" players entered the MMO scene. Used to be you'd start a new MMO and, unless you hated it, that was it. You were there for the long haul. This whole concept of a "shelf-life" is really undermining what MMOs have always been about at their core... They've always been about enjoying the journey... Now they've been reduced to "get to the end game as fast as possible so you can cancel your account and move on to the next MMO when it comes out".
It's kinda sad. In that light... any MMO can have plenty to offer a gamer, if they're willing to slow-down, stop hurrying through the game, and just enjoy themselves. Let go of the console-like "beat the game as fast as possible" playstyle, stop worrying about how long it's going to take to get to end game or level cap... take in the game and enjoy yourself until you've had enough. How do you think those people playing UO, or EQ or Asheron's Call or any of those older ones are still enjoying the games? It's not because they raced through to get to end-game within the first month of starting. And yes, many of those players have lives, families, jobs, school, etc... as well. At the very least, these "new school" gamers would do well to at least acknowledge that their "need" to jump from one MMO to another becuase they keep "running out of content" in the last one they played is often more the result of their playstyle than it is the game itself.
Most MMOs have plenty of content -if you take the time to actually *experience* it, instead of racing through or past it all.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The game has (well, had) the potential to become big. At this point it is simply too old... in a sense it isn't, but the MMORPG community is an extremely picky crowd with high expectations. Anything over two years old (excluding WoW) is considered moot in the eyes of many. You know this, is one of the things that's steadily pushing me away from MMOs. When a genre with "long-term play - possibly years" at the heart of its design begins to have a shelf-life, there's a problem.
I still say it goes back to the traditional console gamers coming to MMOs and expecting - when not outright demanding - many of those console-like factors to be implemented...
The genre is no longer about creating a character and setting out on a long journey where you can do any number of things and meet any number of people along the way. Getting to level cap or end-game was an abstract concept; a very long-term goal at most. Now it's all about "race to end game as fast as possible to get all the best loot"; which, in my opinion, is that console-centric "win the game as fast as possible" mindset coming into play. I never heard people complain about it "taking too long to get to end game" back then. Never heard all those too-oft parroted rationales of "I have a full-time job", "I don't live in my mother's basement", etc... All of which are only a "problem" because the individual makes it one via their "race race race" approach to playing. There simply is no room for such conceit, and here's why... People who started out in UO, EQ, etc. held full-time jobs, raised families and such, too. They still did just fine in the slower-paced MMOs. The difference was they weren't in a hurry. They didn't log into the game for the first time already concerned about how quickly they could power-level to end-game. This is where perception comes in... Getting somewhere only "takes too long" when you're in a hurry to get there, or have expectations of getting there in a certain amount of time.
Back before the "console gamer mentality" took hold, more often than not, if it took a player over a year to get to the higher levels, hey no biggie. As long as they were having fun along the way, that's what was important. Somewhere along the line, the concept of "the game begins at level cap" has taken root and overtaken the genre. And the genre is worse for it, in my opinion. The other side to that is the whole band-wagon jumping thing happening now. Or the need people have to feel like they're playing the "newest and best" MMO on the market. So many now start new MMOs already planning to leave for the newest one when it comes out... which they're ready to leave when the new one after that comes out. Again... the console mentality at play... "play the game, then move on to the next". Again, I never saw this behavior before the more "console-centric" players entered the MMO scene. Used to be you'd start a new MMO and, unless you hated it, that was it. You were there for the long haul. This whole concept of a "shelf-life" is really undermining what MMOs have always been about at their core... They've always been about enjoying the journey... Now they've been reduced to "get to the end game as fast as possible so you can cancel your account and move on to the next MMO when it comes out".
It's kinda sad. In that light... any MMO can have plenty to offer a gamer, if they're willing to slow-down, stop hurrying through the game, and just enjoy themselves. Let go of the console-like "beat the game as fast as possible" playstyle, stop worrying about how long it's going to take to get to end game or level cap... take in the game and enjoy yourself until you've had enough. How do you think those people playing UO, or EQ or Asheron's Call or any of those older ones are still enjoying the games? It's not because they raced through to get to end-game within the first month of starting. And yes, many of those players have lives, families, jobs, school, etc... as well. At the very least, these "new school" gamers would do well to at least acknowledge that their "need" to jump from one MMO to another becuase they keep "running out of content" in the last one they played is often more the result of their playstyle than it is the game itself.
Most MMOs have plenty of content -if you take the time to actually *experience* it, instead of racing through or past it all.
I think the truest reason this game isn't super big is it is too much of a grind fest still other than crafting which is not something you can easily get into without grinding there is nothing else to do but grind, run a TF you are just running a much longer grind that from what I've experienced offers very little from having run the same amount of missions solo you're still beating up enemies repeat, base building was/is fun but that's an even worse grind if you don't have a lot of SG members with some alts in group as well.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better:
1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware.
2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far.
3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts.
4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys.
5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 4 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys.
What makes you believe City of heroes isnt big? Because it isnt heavily advertised the way WoW is? I didnt see city of heroes struggling, its still pushing content and its core fanbase is still happy and playing. That is all they have to maintain really.
There just arent a lot of super hero fans, champions might do bettter and i am certain DC online will be popular since they are going tot ry and whore the dark knight popularity.
CoX was mainly the timing, and the lack of end game, and when they finally fixed it all, WoW was already up and running so people didnt feel like moving over.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
What makes you believe City of heroes isnt big? Because it isnt heavily advertised the way WoW is? I didnt see city of heroes struggling, its still pushing content and its core fanbase is still happy and playing. That is all they have to maintain really. There just arent a lot of super hero fans, champions might do bettter and i am certain DC online will be popular since they are going tot ry and whore the dark knight popularity.
CoX was mainly the timing, and the lack of end game, and when they finally fixed it all, WoW was already up and running so people didnt feel like moving over.
I didn't say anything about CoX "not being big". I simply stated why it didn't do better. I did mention relatively low population numbers, which was definitely true when I briefly resubbed.
And there "aren't a lot of super hero fans"? Are you kidding me? Comic books--full of super heroes--and super hero movies are one of the most popular and enduring forms of storytelling in the last 80 or so years, and has made a huge resurgence in the past 2 decades.
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys. 5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
Just a few comments to add.
1) True to WoW. Not that I like or play it any more, but it came along as a very polished, well designed mmo, just about the same time CoH really got its nerfing rolling and started cheesing players off. That was majorly bad timing for CoH.
2) Too true.
3) I played CoH for a very long time and apart from the early days with pre-32 controllers, never had trouble solo'ing. But the gameplay mechanics are so well designed for grouping that I find solo'ing boring and less fun, rather than hard.
Most of the server populations are tragically low these days. There's really only two worth playing on.
4) I never had problems with status effects. Different ATs/builds need to carry different kinds of inspirations and use different tactics.
5) I actually always liked the fact there was no loot. The gameplay was fun - so why worry about collecting shinies? Loot is just another dimension to grind on. And you only need grind factor if the actual gameplay is lacking. But it's a personal taste thing I suppose and I really liked its lack of loot.
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys. 5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys. 5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
This post reminded me of something else I considered about why coh lags behind other games a bit you can solo in coh but it is in that case a truly boring game all the missions take forever after level 25 and what's the point when it's the same darn mission you just ran 25 minutes ago but if you are in a group those missions are fun to fly throguh with all the exp and influence you gather WoW is no where near the grind soloing but that's just my opinion when I played wow I could literally play all day solo if I don't find a group in coh within say 30 minutes I'm usually out of there
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys. 5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
This post reminded me of something else I considered about why coh lags behind other games a bit you can solo in coh but it is in that case a truly boring game all the missions take forever after level 25 and what's the point when it's the same darn mission you just ran 25 minutes ago but if you are in a group those missions are fun to fly throguh with all the exp and influence you gather WoW is no where near the grind soloing but that's just my opinion when I played wow I could literally play all day solo if I don't find a group in coh within say 30 minutes I'm usually out of there
I loved CoH, it was pretty much my first MMO. But after a while it does get boring. The mission creator is a good idea, but there is virtually no economy even with all the new parts you can "craft" now, and the only thing to do really is run missions. The PVP isn't great at all, I mean you can jump in with a group, but it gets very monotonous very fast. The archetypes are great, but there really isn't enough variety... everyone in the end, ends up being cookie cutter except for minor enhancements that don't do nearly enough to make it really worth it.
I love that game though, it's a great idea, I just think its a little outdated now, and needs a critical content update to keep things moving forward. Maybe even a combat update of some sort, that would be nice. It just doesn't have enough to keep me entertained for more then a month at a time now. I've played over a year altogether with all the times I quit and came back though.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Amen, brother!
I hate crafting! I really appreciate that in CoX, the inventions are nice, but not necessary. And if I die, my corpse won't be robbed. That's one of the main things that pulled me into CoX when I first started playing MMOs. I'd heard so much about crafting--people groaining about collecting enough gold, or that rare drop, and getting looted when they got killed--totally turned me off any of the fantasy genre MMOs.
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
Comments
I only played the free trial an its a cool game, hell i love it just for the character customization! i love that. i wish more mmo's would do that. i havent played a game where i could customize how my toon looked on a decent scale since UO. iv missed it since then an CoH/V blows it away. I just dont want to pay a sub fee for it cuz im playin other games and waiting on WAR.. but i still think mmo's should do large scale customizing like that. i hate seeing people who are the same class looking just like me. armor dye only goes so far.. ya know? lol (but thank god they have that atleast in WAR, i HATED that you couldent dye stuff in games like wow)
I agree, character customization is #1 in mmos, but nerfs suck.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Well I would classify it as a mission based story driven MMO lacking in mission quality and story. Either make a game sandbox and attract to the niche crowd, or make it rich in story with quality missions ala WoW. If they would have added more sandbox elements, removed levels and made it 100% skill based, added real world player housing, focused more on super bases and labs, and fleshed out the economy to be more player driven it would be attracting a good bit of players.
At the same time if it would have just made it level based with minimal customization, end game gear grind, levels, in depth missions, in depth story, and meaningless pvp then it could attract more as well.
Right now it's just kind of in the middle and it gives everyone who leans on any side of any fence a reason to cancel their sub at least once a month.
Well anyone that says IO's aren't any good til 50 obviously either (1) hasn't played since Issue 9 or (2) didn't bother with them. Besides earning the various badges for crafting them, some of the set bonuses are quite nice at lower levels.
Not to mention certain IO's are actually better at a lower level than at 50. Example: some IO's give a flat bonus to something, such as 5% chance to build up each time that power is used. Now if you exemplar down to more than 3 levels below the level of that IO... it doesn't work. So if I had all 50 IO's some would stop working if I exemplared lower than 47.
Missions are heavily story based. I think some people don't bother to read why they are doing what they are doing. Plus if you think it's repetative, go play EQ1 and camp raster for the monk epic. You don't like cave missions, then don't pick them. Cimerora, RWZ, Flashback missions were all added in the last 3 patches. Would take a long time to work through all of them before they started getting "repetative".
{ Mod Edit } I said they're not really worth it til 50 unless they are unique imo, its not like most players don't agree, all ya gotta do is look at their personal info or ask em. I lvl to 50 in less than a month because I recruit teams and play normally +4-6 my lvl til this last toon( blaster) and with xp smoothing its actually gotten too fast to 50. So lvls fly by and I respec ( got 2 vet respecs) and sell my SOs when they get red in the 40s. Since i/os don't out do Sos til almost 30, money spent on them prior to that will give less benefit on their primary unless unique. Also since I left at issue 10 and have been back for months, apparently its not "obvious" I haven't played since issue 9 and yes I tried them after some suggested to, but why spend the time or money? I've gotten I/os at 40 before since thats when they start to outdo 50 SOs, but I usually just buy the 40 and 45 SOs since their cheaper and faster to get and I respec to get money back for them at 47. Doesn't matter if its cost effective or even if lower non-unique i/os benefit a bit more, I only want 50 i/os on my toon whan I get to 50 and have only but so many respecs to use, if I frankenslot on the way up I'm gonna end up just slotting over most eventually or paying money for a respec token or doing the respec TF when I don't want to.
Oh, and yes, most people don't bother to read "why" they're doing what their doing because you're doing the same thing you always do, putting a different spin on it changes nothing. They're also not playing to bone up on meaningless story trivia, they're there to log in, play and log out. I played EQ1back when a Wurmslayer was considered a top flight weapon, and I was the only shadowknight on Vallon Zek that I saw actually use one (with a shield) at my lvl. That game was repetitive if you were camping for a specific drop, or stayed in the same spot, but for the most part had many maps and dungeons, all of which were persistant, and whose story held some interest because the enemies you fought and where you fought them were so varied. Fighting Orcs in crushbone, with pks lurking about and butchering almost the whole zone at times, was different from fighting drow in Mistmoore with player corpses strewn all over the floor from mistmoores troops or fighting Kromzek giants in Velious or various monsters in Unrest, where it was a battle to even get thru the zone entrance sometimes because of trains. That game was frustrating tho because it was really targeted for the hardcore player, at least on my server, I mean it might take you an hour just to get somewhere, and the ability to lose xp and/or a lvl and the powers that came with it , and of course the PKs and the ultraslow grind at 35, so I quit it more than 6 years ago, because I prefer casual play, in then out, have fun and done, and thanks to sk'ing/mentoring, doesn't matter if you outlvl or are outlvld by your online peers, you can still always team. With coh, the combat experience and dynamics are essentially the same at every lvl, making the story behind it meaningless, I mean it doesn't matter if I'm rescuing Wanda Sims from the cot or Carnival, or if the freaks have some alloy or some machine, if I know how to fight them. With any group, they have their skills to overcome and you build the team to do that, its fun, but it is repetitive. Btw, how do you NOT choose a cave mish, I think all of Paragon would like to know, if its an arc, do you just quit, does it say cave in most cases? or maybe autocomplete every 3 days? I mean how do you know what map the next mission is gonna be on before you pick it on a radio? Also, a flashback mission by definition is rehashing the old missions which are no different than most of the other mishes given at higher levels, I've done RWZ mishes til my eyes bled including the TF and they are super repetative, couldn't care less about Cimerora, by the time that came along I was only interested in pvp. You see Drow, most players in coh are casual and just like to play, if they can get some extra stuff they'll do what they have to to get it, but the story is essentially irrelevant which is why you never really hear people talk about the "stories", just what arc will get them what they want. Badge hunting has its moments, but only for accolades imo, I mean wtfrig to I care about getting a badge that doesn't benefit in any real way? To show off? To who exactly?
For me Coh is a casual, action driven game attuned to teaming, apparently you are a hardcore player that actually cares why you are going to go stomp some vill and have some belief in the rationale for doing so , perhaps you see coh as more of a virtual world than a game and therefore can't understand that most people see the reasons for doing anything in it as universal: xp,inf and/or fun. So instead of getting your stockings all bunged up wondering why everyone else is so crazy for saying its repetitive, maybe you need to assess why you you can't enjoy it for what you like it for and have your opinion, and let us enjoy it for what we like it for and have ours.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
As a long-time CoX player (perma subscribed since release) this is an interesting thread for me. I've enjoyed the game all this time although I shift around alts a lot and have only one L50 character!
I guess the question I have is less "what are the problems" with CoX as the same information comes out - no loot and repetitveness - and this has been addressed to a great degree.
The question is perhaps... what do you enjoy in the MMO you do play?
One thing of note is the fact that people bemoan the number of instances in the game. Why? Why not "street-sweep" and enjoy the scenery? Each city zone is actually pretty damn large and you could easily level to 50 if that was the type of game you want to play.
Is the problem that all the quest/mission givers direct you to instances rather than to the outside world? Is it a lack of handholding in that regard?
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I must admit, I'm one of those who finds the "repetitive" criticism a bit baffling. In terms of variety of graphics, tilesets, etc., and quest stories (which I do read and think are good) CoX is no more repetitive than any other game, and in fact it's less repetitive in some ways, because combat with one combination of powersets can feel completely different against the same mobs from another combination of powersets.
I think what gives the feeling that CoX is more repetitive that other MMOs is partly the psychological thing of it being set in the city rather than the country, but mostly the map layouts - (not the graphics/tilesets but the actual layouts) there are like 4 or 5 standard "office" layouts, 4 or 5 standard "mine" layouts, etc., etc. Once you've had few heroes to 50 and have numerous alts (like most hardcore CoX-ers
) you get to know all those layouts, so the missions go by rote, you're almost on automatic pilot, because you know:
"Ah yes, there;'s the L-shaped corridor that goes to the left, after going through that there will be some mobs just around the corner, then there's that corridor that goes into the little room with that has stairs going down at the end of it" etc., etc., etc., etc.
It's this that gives the game a repetitive feeling. If Cryptic would just introduce about an equal number of layout types for each tileset as they already have, and jumble them all up again, it would, I am sure, give the game an added burst of longevity.
I was huge fan of the game and enjoyed it imensely.
The repetitivness comes in exactly as you said - using the same mapsets over and over. As you go through the levels the villians change but the maps really don't, nor do the missions vary substantially. What finally burned me out on it was when I hit a point where I literally got the exact same set of missions from all of my contacts with the only variance being the villian. You can only rescue 12 magicians so many times before it stops being fun.
Now to be fair, I have not played in quite a while so maybe this has drastically changed - and I hope that it has. I have played alot of MMOs and City of Heroes was one of the ones I enjoyed the most.
I enjoyed this game for some time. Enjoyed the character creation, the flying, etc. But the game became nothing but a repetitious burden. I got bored. Nothing really to grab me by the coconuts and keep me playing. The only thing that was fun was the costume contests.
To be fair, they have over time introduced some really cool mission arcs - especially the revamped Faultline, which has some great missions with unique maps mixed in with the generic ones. Also the Croatoa missions are nice, because a lot of them are outdoors in a strange magical landscape, and there are quite nice strategic touches there.
There's no doubt that if there were tons more variation in missions, CoX would be a much bigger hit. But that would require inordinate amounts of work.
Which all points to the problem that CoX had from the start - not enough "traditional MMO trappings" that are cheap to implement and absorb peoples' time, like crafting. Crafting was introduced a few issues ago and gave the game another boost of life - had it been in from the beginning it might have kept a lot of the initial burst of subscribers happy.
However, given that CoX has always had this problem of not enough "traditional MMO stuff", it's done remarkably well. And that's a tribute, I think, to the strength of the combat system (its immersiveness primarily, but also its cleverness), the amazingness of the character creation, and the ease with which it's possible to form PUGs with people of widely disparate levels, and tailor mission difficulty to team composition.
Gah, it's an amazing game. I've had so much pleasure out of it, well worth the money. But after 3 years, and knowing everything pretty much inside out, I just have to move on.
I will say though, that while I've been trying loads of MMOs, I find the big problem with them all is that in every other MMO I've been trying, I find myself soloing far more than teaming. In CoX I hardly ever had to solo, it was always a choice. Something about the way most other MMOs are set up makes teaming harder than in CoX, and that's really CoX's "secret weapon" - it makes CoX a very social gaming experience, even despite the missing "traditional MMO elements".
Repetitiveness.
I played CoH for a couple of years. Fantastic game. Superb game design in character customisation and group gameplay. But it's just one instanced mission after the other, in tragically familiar environments and fighting similarly tragically familiar mobs.
It completely lacks "world" factor - and this is exacerbated by travel powers. You go from one repetitive mission to the next as quickly as possible and the world is just something that blurs by.
IMO the game would be much improved by:
They would loose me as a player for life if they did this. My biggest grip on every other MMO is how they force you to travel slowly to keep your cash flowing longer because you spend half your time in game traveling. Sure this might make those missions seem more repetive but that is if you dont bother flying around, checking things out. My biggest complaint is the repetive missions and I wish the graphics engine would get an update to DirectX 10 with good shaders etc. Champions Online is actually going to be more cartoon like and will probably not get my hard earned cash. I am hoping for a Heroes type game where the graphics are more realistic sometime in the future and I sure hope it is from Cryptic. In fact if the paid expansion included an update to the graphics engine, that alone would get my cash long as all zones I travel in got the update
Cith of Heroes/Villians
--------------------------
Heroes:
Xenomorph 50 scrapper - Virtue
Polar Force 50 Blaster - Virtue
Villians:
Rhino Hulk 50 Brute - Virtue
Destructor 48 Corruptor - Virtue
They would loose me as a player for life if they did this. My biggest grip on every other MMO is how they force you to travel slowly to keep your cash flowing longer because you spend half your time in game traveling. Sure this might make those missions seem more repetive but that is if you dont bother flying around, checking things out. My biggest complaint is the repetive missions and I wish the graphics engine would get an update to DirectX 10 with good shaders etc. Champions Online is actually going to be more cartoon like and will probably not get my hard earned cash. I am hoping for a Heroes type game where the graphics are more realistic sometime in the future and I sure hope it is from Cryptic. In fact if the paid expansion included an update to the graphics engine, that alone would get my cash long as all zones I travel in got the update
I love the travel powers. They really are fun and add to the whole comic book feel. But they exacerbate the game's only serious problem - it's repetitiveness. Travel powers let you literally shoot from one mission to the next and that mission content is the problem.
Fly around and check things out? How do your team-mates feel about you dawdling between missions?
This particular suggestion - all of it together, not just the travel power nerf/removal - comes from experience in other mmos. Repetitiveness is a problem in all games to some extent, but good game design can minimise it.
The typical setup in other mmos to minimise repetitiveness is that for any given player level there will be 2-4 visually distinct and often geographically distant areas. If the game is good then mobs in those different areas will also behave differently / have different attacks.
So if the gameplay starts to feel repetitive, players can pack themselves up and go somewhere else for a fresh look/feel.
CoX's design emphasises missions. Their visuals are very repetitive and common across the full range of maps. The same is true of mobs.
The reason that CoX has always needed travel powers is that for any particular level you can be given missions across a wide range of maps. If instead they localised the missions and removed the need for players to travel such long distances.... then travel powers wouldn't be needed. If at the same time they worked on the graphics and gave both the indoor and outdoor areas of different zones more unique flavours, then it could reduce that repetitive feel.
Frankly, I'm sick of the game after playing for 5 months.
Upon reaching level 50 for the 3rd time (and getting 90%+ of all badges on each of them), all I have left to do is "farm" the same missions repeatedly or join in PvP... and neither of which are entertaining in the least. So, either grind or play with the less respectable, more immature side of the community in which everyone has an ego problem.
So I joined a Super Group a few months ago. It was pretty fun to actually feel needed in a guild without having to play every day (earning prestige). The idea is great in concept... but in practice... you're just an ant in a colony working towards getting all the base goodies. Nobody's your peer unless your rank dictates it, and I have a problem with that.
I personally prefer to avoid 'serious' SGs/guilds and those who take them seriously, but unfortunately this game is packed with the lot of them.
Too many groups take themselves too seriously and have piles of rules and dogma that you must follow or you'll be removed; that or the leaders see themselves as above all others and demand loyalty through conformism and grunt work.
I already have a job where I have to dress up for work, kiss my boss's arse at every turn, and do the same darned thing repeatedly every day until I retire... so you'll forgive me if I don't enjoy paying for the same experience in my free time.
Hm, that list of complaints looks pretty familiar...
I guess these are just a few minor gripes you'll see on any MMORPG board. Nothing really unique about the way the game works, so there's nothing unique about the complaints.
So there's your hidden answer: this game is nothing special. You'll get no spectacular amount of people playing it for that very reason.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think the truest reason this game isn't super big is it is too much of a grind fest still other than crafting which is not something you can easily get into without grinding there is nothing else to do but grind, run a TF you are just running a much longer grind that from what I've experienced offers very little from having run the same amount of missions solo you're still beating up enemies repeat, base building was/is fun but that's an even worse grind if you don't have a lot of SG members with some alts in group as well.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better:
1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware.
2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far.
3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts.
4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys.
5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone.
What makes you believe City of heroes isnt big? Because it isnt heavily advertised the way WoW is? I didnt see city of heroes struggling, its still pushing content and its core fanbase is still happy and playing. That is all they have to maintain really.
There just arent a lot of super hero fans, champions might do bettter and i am certain DC online will be popular since they are going tot ry and whore the dark knight popularity.
CoX was mainly the timing, and the lack of end game, and when they finally fixed it all, WoW was already up and running so people didnt feel like moving over.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I didn't say anything about CoX "not being big". I simply stated why it didn't do better. I did mention relatively low population numbers, which was definitely true when I briefly resubbed.
And there "aren't a lot of super hero fans"? Are you kidding me? Comic books--full of super heroes--and super hero movies are one of the most popular and enduring forms of storytelling in the last 80 or so years, and has made a huge resurgence in the past 2 decades.
Just a few comments to add.
1) True to WoW. Not that I like or play it any more, but it came along as a very polished, well designed mmo, just about the same time CoH really got its nerfing rolling and started cheesing players off. That was majorly bad timing for CoH.
2) Too true.
3) I played CoH for a very long time and apart from the early days with pre-32 controllers, never had trouble solo'ing. But the gameplay mechanics are so well designed for grouping that I find solo'ing boring and less fun, rather than hard.
Most of the server populations are tragically low these days. There's really only two worth playing on.
4) I never had problems with status effects. Different ATs/builds need to carry different kinds of inspirations and use different tactics.
5) I actually always liked the fact there was no loot. The gameplay was fun - so why worry about collecting shinies? Loot is just another dimension to grind on. And you only need grind factor if the actual gameplay is lacking. But it's a personal taste thing I suppose and I really liked its lack of loot.
That is all.
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
This post reminded me of something else I considered about why coh lags behind other games a bit you can solo in coh but it is in that case a truly boring game all the missions take forever after level 25 and what's the point when it's the same darn mission you just ran 25 minutes ago but if you are in a group those missions are fun to fly throguh with all the exp and influence you gather WoW is no where near the grind soloing but that's just my opinion when I played wow I could literally play all day solo if I don't find a group in coh within say 30 minutes I'm usually out of there
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
1) WoW does not do everything better. Here is my 4 month playing experience in WoW.
"I've got to do these quests. Does anyone want to group up and do quests?....anyone?
*Solos for 25 levels*
"Nobody wants to group up? It's very boring to be in an MMO and not actually play with people."
*Continues to solo*
*quits*
WoW has a TERRIBLE grouping system. CoH has the best grouping system of any game. I don't know how people can stand the solo in WoW. Not that I never solo, but I group up about 95% of my MMO time. Why? Because that's the entire point of an MMO. To play and interact with others, which CoH executes beatifully.
2) CoH grind is not much worse than WoW grind. And I bet the people that complain about grind and lack of content NEVER read the story arcs from the contacts. There are plenty of things to do when you are level 50. There are contacts, the shadow shard, Cimerora, Rikti War Zone, TFs, SG base, etc.
The game is implimenting a Mission Creator that will basically destroy the grind in some aspects. Players will be creating their own story arcs from scratch. They will write the text, design the map, create the boss, etc. Players will be able to share these missions with each other and rate them. This will keep me and many only players interested for a LONG TIME.
3) The game does have servers will relatively low populations. The solution: Don't play on those servers. Play on Freedom. Or Virtue if you like roleplaying. Problem solved. The game isn't built specifically for soloing. You are meant to team. Soloing is doable though, for the occasions when you want to.
4) Status effects are not that bad. They are supposed to be there. If they annoy you to that degree, than you should do something about it. Either play an armor set toon, carry around many break frees, or get some IO sets that negate status effects. There are several options available to you.
5) No real loot is one of the reason's I play this game. Having to buy all the chestplates and leggings and shoulderpads and gloves and boots is really fucking annoying. With CoH, you can just kill and continue. No waiting every every single mob to loot every damn enemy. Looting is automatic. You will get salvage and then you can sell it or use it. The "armor" in this game are the enhancements.
Anyway, I hope I cleared up some issues you have seen or others have seen and I urge you to give the game another chance. Thanks!
This post reminded me of something else I considered about why coh lags behind other games a bit you can solo in coh but it is in that case a truly boring game all the missions take forever after level 25 and what's the point when it's the same darn mission you just ran 25 minutes ago but if you are in a group those missions are fun to fly throguh with all the exp and influence you gather WoW is no where near the grind soloing but that's just my opinion when I played wow I could literally play all day solo if I don't find a group in coh within say 30 minutes I'm usually out of there
I loved CoH, it was pretty much my first MMO. But after a while it does get boring. The mission creator is a good idea, but there is virtually no economy even with all the new parts you can "craft" now, and the only thing to do really is run missions. The PVP isn't great at all, I mean you can jump in with a group, but it gets very monotonous very fast. The archetypes are great, but there really isn't enough variety... everyone in the end, ends up being cookie cutter except for minor enhancements that don't do nearly enough to make it really worth it.
I love that game though, it's a great idea, I just think its a little outdated now, and needs a critical content update to keep things moving forward. Maybe even a combat update of some sort, that would be nice. It just doesn't have enough to keep me entertained for more then a month at a time now. I've played over a year altogether with all the times I quit and came back though.
Amen, brother!
I hate crafting! I really appreciate that in CoX, the inventions are nice, but not necessary. And if I die, my corpse won't be robbed. That's one of the main things that pulled me into CoX when I first started playing MMOs. I'd heard so much about crafting--people groaining about collecting enough gold, or that rare drop, and getting looted when they got killed--totally turned me off any of the fantasy genre MMOs.
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.