Archangel, everytime a new release comes, there are changes, and every time there are changes, there are people who whine and cry. Some of them for good reason. But the very fact that they are in the forums whining shows that they are still in the game. Nonetheless they are entitled to vent. If enough people vent about the same narrowly focused complaint in a polite manner in the appropriate venue, the devs are prone to listen and might consider it a seious flaw. The begging of one player is not going to change the game. One very well written letter sent inadvertantly at just the right time might be a catalyst for such change. The game is after all a business, meant in the end to turn a profit --- some profit even if its not enough profit to please you --- and not given to intentionally piss off its clientelle. However there are no doubt a multitude of factors which play into these decisions that you and I will never know a thing about. NCSoft is after all not a publically held company and we are not on the board of directors. With all of your discontent, are YOU still playing the game? PS. Synchbug - I had it - for three days. I play every single darn day, and I noticed the thing interferring my game for three whole days. Sorry you were sick for longer. <Shrugs>
Sync bug affected thousands of players for the month long period until the /sync command went live, and until code modifications after this addressed server side issues. I was not affected by the sync bug; many of my friends including our supergroup leader was. I appreciate your empathy, and I take it as genuine; thank you. Some people did not experience sync issues to this magnitude. I consider them lucky, and apparently you're among this group. Really I'm glad for you, and thank you for recognizing that the problem was much more serious and went on for a long time for others.
If you'll look at the post before I included the well-written letter, it includes links to threads protesting I13. These are just a small sample of many I could have chosen. One is about 300 PAGES long and filled with letters just as well written, or filled with a lot of confusion and frustration.
There have been many modifications to the current game that I--and most other players--have been fine with. These have included nerfs to powers and to Invention sets. Issue 13 is not a change of this magnitude. It is, in the words of the powers dev, "drastic." It is a complete dismantling of the pvp game, and a rebuilding of it from scratch.
The problems with this are many. PvP 2.0 as it's called is being done in less time than PvP 1.0. It is more buggy, unbalanced and incomplete than PvP 1.0 ever was. PvP players were asked by Lighthouse to do ingame research and provide detailed feedback regarding how to enhance the PvP game. We complied with this, provided a document from the community and had ventrilo chat with Lighthouse. All of the recommendations, except one (dual builds for each character--one for pve and one for pvp) were utterly disregarded. Most of the real issues in PvP 1.0 are not being solved by the unwanted revamp. It is in fact dismantling things that work and that people enjoy. So, it doesn't address the real problems, it adds many new problems, and it disregards current players and their ingame progress. This is unlike any game modification that has occured in the last two and a half years.
You may be aware that you can play this game by time card. If you choose to pay in this manner, you do not have a "cancel account" option in your account management screen. You can stop playing anytime you like of course. Since Issue 13 is still in open beta, and since I'm paid up until December, I and many of my pvp friends are enjoying our game until our sub time runs out, or Issue 13 goes live, whichever comes first. I have stopped beta testing. I did a ton of beta testing, and my feedback, along with most of the other feedback from current players is irrelevant. Decision have already been made that NCsoft is apparently not interested in looking at. If that's the way they want it, they really will have to count on an influx of new players to populate the game after this issue goes live. I don't anticipate success for them.
Guess what? The game is a business. If they're breaking status quo to bring new peeps into the game, then somewhere along the line it was decided that is what must be done. We are not privy to that information. They would like us to think we have a say in what goes on and in some cases we do, but only out of their generosity. It is not OUR game but THEIRS. They do not answer to us except when it comes to whether or not we subscribe to the game. Whatever truths you might be repeating (until we are all so numb no one is paying attention anymore), I personally am just not one to cling to the doomsday negativity that you're feeding on. I play to escape real life, to have fun, to explore the new and different. Maybe its not new enough and different enough for you, but you know what? I've been in the game four years, and I'm not having a problem with that angle. Nonetheless you are different from me. If you want to be unhappy, and spend hours venting about the same thing adnauseum, you go right ahead.
Guess what? The game is a business. If they're breaking status quo to bring new peeps into the game, then somewhere along the line it was decided that is what must be done. We are not privy to that information. They would like us to think we have a say in what goes on and in some cases we do, but only out of their generosity. It is not OUR game but THEIRS. They do not answer to us except when it comes to whether or not we subscribe to the game. Whatever truths you might be repeating (until we are all so numb no one is paying attention anymore), I personally am just not one to cling to the doomsday negativity that you're feeding on. I play to escape real life, to have fun, to explore the new and different. Maybe its not new enough and different enough for you, but you know what? I've been in the game four years, and I'm not having a problem with that angle. Nonetheless you are different from me. If you want to be unhappy, and spend hours venting about the same thing adnauseum, you go right ahead. Imma gonna go play.
A few posts ago, you claimed that what I am saying is untrue. Now that I've posted evidence to support my statements, you say I'm venting ad nauseum. Hopefully you can see the contradiction here.
The last time I heard people take this track: "It's their game, they can do what they want, player's opinions are really not important," was in an MMO that is now empty and almost universally despised. The company, SOE, is also nearly universally mistrusted.
Can they do what they like to "their" game? Yes, of course they can. Is it wise business to get your players to participate in a feedback campaign, then ignore the feedback, then say that new players are more of a priority? No, I think not.
You can say I'm venting ad nauseum if you like. I am in fact just providing evidence to support the views that you seemed to dismiss. I did some venting when this all first came about, but I've been done that for some time now. At this point, I'm information sharing--hence the statements, now supported with evidence.
By all means, go play, and I hope you enjoy yourself. I may also enjoy myself right along with you, until issue 13 goes live. Then my time will be done. I'll have many happy memories to be thankful for, and a conviction that NCsoft is no longer a company I want to do business with. That's fine. I'm looking at a game by Turbine to play over Christmas, and I have my eye on StarTrek online and Champions for the future.
Any changes they can make to bring more people to the game is great. If it chases some away, that is fine too. They are certainly taking a risk, but it could pay off.
They have a couple of other super hero mmorpgs to worry about and they know that people are going to bail when they come out.
honestly, it probably boils down to the same issue which plagues many mmo games out today -- the (perceived?) honesty and forthrightness of developers to the paying customer.
sure, they have bosses to answer to and some company suits supposedly run the operation; BUT, when it boils down to it... do ANY of those people have a job and raises/promotions without we peon customers?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
i'd say its the fact that from the start, it never tries to hide the grind. sure i had a blast with new powers and awesome new enemies...but it ended up being the same damn buildings with the same damn monsters doing the same damn thing...and this starts as soon as the tutorial is over.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
i'd say its the fact that from the start, it never tries to hide the grind. sure i had a blast with new powers and awesome new enemies...but it ended up being the same damn buildings with the same damn monsters doing the same damn thing...and this starts as soon as the tutorial is over.
You nailed down my problem there exactly.
And it doesn't help that the buildings are kinda ugly either, only the avatars look good.
Dunno arc, I looked at the CoX forums and I don't see anyone talking about this stuff at all, at least not to the extent you are making it out to be, I might have missed something. boards.cityofheroes.com/ubbthreads.php I also looked at NCSofts Q3 report and CoX is down slightly in subs but its been sorta dropping for the last 2 years. Q3 124k vs Q2 137k. (peak of 172k in Sept 2006) Concurrency of users is down slightly. (17k down to 13k) but last quarter (Q2) they had a bunch of "open weekends" ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx They publish everything. I don't see any "mass exodus" post, I don't see anyone complaining about the PvP changes just business as usual.
For your reading pleasure, just a very small sample of all the wth are you doing to our game threads regarding Issue 13.
Also, you won't the sub hit in quarterly reports that have already been published. People either just left in closed beta (many did) or are now leaving in open beta. You may see the numbers next report.
People aren't leaving because of change though. People are leaving because the devs asked for feedback, ignored it, then said they are making these changes to appeal to new players and don't really care if current players have their game ruined.
Regarding the sync bug, you'll have to look months back in the forums to see the posts about that. It has been many months since the last content patch. Another complaint. This is one of the longest times the game has gone without a content patch, and it's a quest-based linear game. Now that a patch is finally coming, the anticipated content is being pushed back, and an unwanted revamp is being pushed through.
P.S. Almost missed the largest thread on the PvP revamp, is around 300 PAGES long at this point. You'll find most of your shocked and angry, WTH!?! posts here:
Well those threads are a mixed reaction at best, I only skimmed the first page though I sure they degenerate into the usual "my opinion is right, yours is wrong" nonsense.
You know why people are leaving? Its an old game and that happens. There is a lot of competition out there and a lot more coming in the near future.
You better get in there and have some fun now while there are still people playing because changes or not Champions and DCU are gonna steamroller this game if they have solid launches.
In fact it was so serious that the friends of mine who were directly affected received a month's worth of subscription time reimbursed. Why would they get a month of time refunded if the bug only lasted 3 days? The refund was a nice idea, I'll give them that, but it came too late for some players. Also, those that had multiple accounts affected for the full month, only got one account refunded, which was not so helpful.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
In fact it was so serious that the friends of mine who were directly affected received a month's worth of subscription time reimbursed. Why would they get a month of time refunded if the bug only lasted 3 days? The refund was a nice idea, I'll give them that, but it came too late for some players. Also, those that had multiple accounts affected for the full month, only got one account refunded, which was not so helpful.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer. Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
In fact it was so serious that the friends of mine who were directly affected received a month's worth of subscription time reimbursed. Why would they get a month of time refunded if the bug only lasted 3 days? The refund was a nice idea, I'll give them that, but it came too late for some players. Also, those that had multiple accounts affected for the full month, only got one account refunded, which was not so helpful.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer. Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR? He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer. Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
I'm sure on a creative level most of them do. What I am talking about is the corporate machine that runs it all. Its job is to make money and everyone who works for it must accomodate that. Sometimes the people who make those decisions benefit the customer, sometimes they don't.
I guess we will see if that has any real impact on anything in CoX. IMHO, the clock is ticking for this game in any event. Then its off to the ranks of yesterdays game as it will lose its claim to fame, being the only Superhero MMO on the market.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR? He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer. Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
I'm sure on a creative level most of them do. What I am talking about is the corporate machine that runs it all. Its job is to make money and everyone who works for it must accomodate that. Sometimes the people who make those decisions benefit the customer, sometimes they don't.
I guess we will see if that has any real impact on anything in CoX. IMHO, the clock is ticking for this game in any event. Then its off to the ranks of yesterdays game as it will lose its claim to fame, being the only Superhero MMO on the market.
Important update on this issue: The dev responsible for the pvp revamp has been reading the posts and pms of current players, AND changing the code of the revamp to incorporate their input. Changes in the latest beta patch restore powers that had been removed, and restore much of the balance and fun that the initial plan was about to destroy.
I have to tell you, I was very pleasantly surprised by this response from the developer. They are still making changes, but they are not flushing their current players and their progress down the toilet any longer. This is a very welcome change from past experiences in SWG.
There's still some ways to go to listen to current players, but the dev team seems to have turned the corner, and they seem to be going in a much more positive direction. Non-pvpers AND pvpers alike now feel that they ALL have input into the process. Honestly guys, this is huge to me. They're really looking at addressing the issues BEFORE this goes live. I'm very pleased.
Just goes to show that when you stop being a idiot and actually give real feedback things get done.
If you are watching the official forum you will see that the "DEVS SUCK!!!!!" "WE ARE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT WE WANT!!!!!" posts have stopped and the majority of posts are now well thought out and intelligent.
Of course, unlike Lighthouse, ExLibris mod smacks the usless posts almost as fast as they are posted.
Just goes to show that when you stop being a idiot and actually give real feedback things get done. If you are watching the official forum you will see that the "DEVS SUCK!!!!!" "WE ARE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT WE WANT!!!!!" posts have stopped and the majority of posts are now well thought out and intelligent. Of course, unlike Lighthouse, ExLibris mod smacks the usless posts almost as fast as they are posted.
Heh, well when you have people spend a lot of hours collecting feedback, and then most of it is disregarded, people are going to react. The reaction is going to be stronger if their in-game progress appears to be thrown in the trash, and it's going to be even stronger if they get the message that they are not the "target audience" for the revamp.
The outpouring of frustration over this was very predictable. At the same time, I agree with you that the anger led people to say things that wouldn't constitute constructive feedback at first. Mainly they just vented. After the venting, those that stayed, were able to start analyzing the situation, and providing constructive input. To Castle's credit, he was able to see the value of some of the feedback in spite of the venting phase.
This could have gone smoother from lots of angles. Having said that, it appears that cooler heads will prevail, and in the end, that's important I think.
People just took it the wrong way. Based on what LH said, I honestly think he misunderstood what the devs were doing. Posi said very plainly that they tried everything the pvp community asked for and each and every one of them other then dual builds sucked. Everything was a complete failure because the system was screwed up. They are not going to put time and effort into something that a minority of players use unless it will bring in more people. Thats what they are trying to do.
Btw, I know its a digital superhero fantasy world, but can we get real for a second here? I have never seen devs give a frig about who said what where or how once they decided to do something, least of all any dev ever affiliated with cox. The only reason they are taking into account and implementing anything any current player says (which supposedly they already had on file) is because Lighthouse leaked the truth that they could give a rats hind parts about the current pvp playerbase. That's it. Lucid arguments have never meant anything to any incarnation of cox management and this is no different. Not that Champions Online will be any better, but NCsoft has enjoyed its domination of this niche market for too long, and until it has some competition out there neither your opinion, nor mine, means anything to them unless apparently, to save face.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
Important update on this issue: The dev responsible for the pvp revamp has been reading the posts and pms of current players, AND changing the code of the revamp to incorporate their input. Changes in the latest beta patch restore powers that had been removed, and restore much of the balance and fun that the initial plan was about to destroy. I have to tell you, I was very pleasantly surprised by this response from the developer. They are still making changes, but they are not flushing their current players and their progress down the toilet any longer. This is a very welcome change from past experiences in SWG. There's still some ways to go to listen to current players, but the dev team seems to have turned the corner, and they seem to be going in a much more positive direction. Non-pvpers AND pvpers alike now feel that they ALL have input into the process. Honestly guys, this is huge to me. They're really looking at addressing the issues BEFORE this goes live. I'm very pleased.
Soooo..the sky isn't falling???
Not so much "warm and fuzzy" for the poor Tabula Rasa people though, their sky just exploded. Lesson here: don't forget these games are about money first.
It WAS big a few years ago. ALOT of people have played and loved it. Problem is and was there really wasn't enough content to keep people for too long. Badge Collections and bases and stuff are cool, but not enough really to retain the high volume of players.
It WAS big a few years ago. ALOT of people have played and loved it. Problem is and was there really wasn't enough content to keep people for too long. Badge Collections and bases and stuff are cool, but not enough really to retain the high volume of players.
In the last 2 years CoH dropped from about 187, 000 subs to about 145,000 subs.
Not exactly the type of numbers that support a "not really enough to retain a high volume of players" argument.
Important update on this issue: The dev responsible for the pvp revamp has been reading the posts and pms of current players, AND changing the code of the revamp to incorporate their input. Changes in the latest beta patch restore powers that had been removed, and restore much of the balance and fun that the initial plan was about to destroy. I have to tell you, I was very pleasantly surprised by this response from the developer. They are still making changes, but they are not flushing their current players and their progress down the toilet any longer. This is a very welcome change from past experiences in SWG. There's still some ways to go to listen to current players, but the dev team seems to have turned the corner, and they seem to be going in a much more positive direction. Non-pvpers AND pvpers alike now feel that they ALL have input into the process. Honestly guys, this is huge to me. They're really looking at addressing the issues BEFORE this goes live. I'm very pleased.
Soooo..the sky isn't falling???
Not so much "warm and fuzzy" for the poor Tabula Rasa people though, their sky just exploded. Lesson here: don't forget these games are about money first.
Lol the guy who codes the sky appears to have made some important changes in light of current player feedback. As a result the sky seems to be ascending once again, ever so slighty . I just hope it keeps going in an upward direction between now and when this issue goes live 0_o.
I also hope that they can pull off a positive Issue 14 (mission architect) without the same level of controversy associated with this one.
I played CoX a lot when it first came out. Well, it was just CoH back then, but anyways, the point is, its a really fun game, but it just gets extremely redundant fast. As in, mission maps vary, but when you've seen them all, it comes down to mob AI and frankly, this game's AI isn't anything to call home to mom about. At the moment, I usually log in during the month of May for anniversary badges, then cancel again till next year. PvP is fun, but it's mostly instanced, which means it's too controlled. There is like 1 or 2 zones that are open PvP I think, but I don't remember. I think 99% of the reason I even keep playing is the enjoyment of coming up with new and interesting costumes. Hence the reason theres a 100 costume contests every day.
Maybe you should actually try playing the game again. PvP is not instanced outside of the arena and there are actually 4 pvp zones, one of which is a free for all zone.
I felt the AI was on par with most other games I have played. As for redundant, I find it no more so than WoW or WAR.
I agree with those that indicated that low levels are hard. Honestly, that is part of why I've played CoX heavily for over two years. When you get to higher levels people have great strategy on average. I'm older, and biased as such, but it is clear that most of the higher level players are mature either of years or just intelligent kids.
Also, I don't know about the numbers, but I ALWAYS see a ton of people on.
Dark Astoria - freedom
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Comments
Sync bug affected thousands of players for the month long period until the /sync command went live, and until code modifications after this addressed server side issues. I was not affected by the sync bug; many of my friends including our supergroup leader was. I appreciate your empathy, and I take it as genuine; thank you. Some people did not experience sync issues to this magnitude. I consider them lucky, and apparently you're among this group. Really I'm glad for you, and thank you for recognizing that the problem was much more serious and went on for a long time for others.
If you'll look at the post before I included the well-written letter, it includes links to threads protesting I13. These are just a small sample of many I could have chosen. One is about 300 PAGES long and filled with letters just as well written, or filled with a lot of confusion and frustration.
There have been many modifications to the current game that I--and most other players--have been fine with. These have included nerfs to powers and to Invention sets. Issue 13 is not a change of this magnitude. It is, in the words of the powers dev, "drastic." It is a complete dismantling of the pvp game, and a rebuilding of it from scratch.
The problems with this are many. PvP 2.0 as it's called is being done in less time than PvP 1.0. It is more buggy, unbalanced and incomplete than PvP 1.0 ever was. PvP players were asked by Lighthouse to do ingame research and provide detailed feedback regarding how to enhance the PvP game. We complied with this, provided a document from the community and had ventrilo chat with Lighthouse. All of the recommendations, except one (dual builds for each character--one for pve and one for pvp) were utterly disregarded. Most of the real issues in PvP 1.0 are not being solved by the unwanted revamp. It is in fact dismantling things that work and that people enjoy. So, it doesn't address the real problems, it adds many new problems, and it disregards current players and their ingame progress. This is unlike any game modification that has occured in the last two and a half years.
You may be aware that you can play this game by time card. If you choose to pay in this manner, you do not have a "cancel account" option in your account management screen. You can stop playing anytime you like of course. Since Issue 13 is still in open beta, and since I'm paid up until December, I and many of my pvp friends are enjoying our game until our sub time runs out, or Issue 13 goes live, whichever comes first. I have stopped beta testing. I did a ton of beta testing, and my feedback, along with most of the other feedback from current players is irrelevant. Decision have already been made that NCsoft is apparently not interested in looking at. If that's the way they want it, they really will have to count on an influx of new players to populate the game after this issue goes live. I don't anticipate success for them.
Guess what? The game is a business. If they're breaking status quo to bring new peeps into the game, then somewhere along the line it was decided that is what must be done. We are not privy to that information. They would like us to think we have a say in what goes on and in some cases we do, but only out of their generosity. It is not OUR game but THEIRS. They do not answer to us except when it comes to whether or not we subscribe to the game. Whatever truths you might be repeating (until we are all so numb no one is paying attention anymore), I personally am just not one to cling to the doomsday negativity that you're feeding on. I play to escape real life, to have fun, to explore the new and different. Maybe its not new enough and different enough for you, but you know what? I've been in the game four years, and I'm not having a problem with that angle. Nonetheless you are different from me. If you want to be unhappy, and spend hours venting about the same thing adnauseum, you go right ahead.
Imma gonna go play.
A few posts ago, you claimed that what I am saying is untrue. Now that I've posted evidence to support my statements, you say I'm venting ad nauseum. Hopefully you can see the contradiction here.
The last time I heard people take this track: "It's their game, they can do what they want, player's opinions are really not important," was in an MMO that is now empty and almost universally despised. The company, SOE, is also nearly universally mistrusted.
Can they do what they like to "their" game? Yes, of course they can. Is it wise business to get your players to participate in a feedback campaign, then ignore the feedback, then say that new players are more of a priority? No, I think not.
You can say I'm venting ad nauseum if you like. I am in fact just providing evidence to support the views that you seemed to dismiss. I did some venting when this all first came about, but I've been done that for some time now. At this point, I'm information sharing--hence the statements, now supported with evidence.
By all means, go play, and I hope you enjoy yourself. I may also enjoy myself right along with you, until issue 13 goes live. Then my time will be done. I'll have many happy memories to be thankful for, and a conviction that NCsoft is no longer a company I want to do business with. That's fine. I'm looking at a game by Turbine to play over Christmas, and I have my eye on StarTrek online and Champions for the future.
Any changes they can make to bring more people to the game is great. If it chases some away, that is fine too. They are certainly taking a risk, but it could pay off.
They have a couple of other super hero mmorpgs to worry about and they know that people are going to bail when they come out.
honestly, it probably boils down to the same issue which plagues many mmo games out today -- the (perceived?) honesty and forthrightness of developers to the paying customer.
sure, they have bosses to answer to and some company suits supposedly run the operation; BUT, when it boils down to it... do ANY of those people have a job and raises/promotions without we peon customers?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
i'd say its the fact that from the start, it never tries to hide the grind. sure i had a blast with new powers and awesome new enemies...but it ended up being the same damn buildings with the same damn monsters doing the same damn thing...and this starts as soon as the tutorial is over.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
You nailed down my problem there exactly.
And it doesn't help that the buildings are kinda ugly either, only the avatars look good.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12521711&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=14
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12421739&an=0&page=16#Post12421739
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12440173&an=0&page=13#Post12440173
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12477845&an=0&page=8#Post12477845
For your reading pleasure, just a very small sample of all the wth are you doing to our game threads regarding Issue 13.
Also, you won't the sub hit in quarterly reports that have already been published. People either just left in closed beta (many did) or are now leaving in open beta. You may see the numbers next report.
People aren't leaving because of change though. People are leaving because the devs asked for feedback, ignored it, then said they are making these changes to appeal to new players and don't really care if current players have their game ruined.
Regarding the sync bug, you'll have to look months back in the forums to see the posts about that. It has been many months since the last content patch. Another complaint. This is one of the longest times the game has gone without a content patch, and it's a quest-based linear game. Now that a patch is finally coming, the anticipated content is being pushed back, and an unwanted revamp is being pushed through.
P.S. Almost missed the largest thread on the PvP revamp, is around 300 PAGES long at this point. You'll find most of your shocked and angry, WTH!?! posts here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Dev&Number=12263971&Searchpage=3&Main=12221755&Words=Castle&topic=&Search=true#Post12263971
Well those threads are a mixed reaction at best, I only skimmed the first page though I sure they degenerate into the usual "my opinion is right, yours is wrong" nonsense.
You know why people are leaving? Its an old game and that happens. There is a lot of competition out there and a lot more coming in the near future.
You better get in there and have some fun now while there are still people playing because changes or not Champions and DCU are gonna steamroller this game if they have solid launches.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer.
Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
Well, if it wasn't for not refunding all the accounts, the answer would be easy - customer service. A pro-rated refund would be the very least they should do. To apologize further and help show that they care (even if they really don't), maybe they thought a full month's refund would be better PR?
He||, maybe their accountants were lazy and didn't want to do the math to figure out the pro-rated refund on everybody who was affected.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer.
Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer.
Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
I'm sure on a creative level most of them do. What I am talking about is the corporate machine that runs it all. Its job is to make money and everyone who works for it must accomodate that. Sometimes the people who make those decisions benefit the customer, sometimes they don't.
I guess we will see if that has any real impact on anything in CoX. IMHO, the clock is ticking for this game in any event. Then its off to the ranks of yesterdays game as it will lose its claim to fame, being the only Superhero MMO on the market.
This may come as a shocker but no Corporation gives a rats about you as a consumer.
Some just put up a better show then others.
Accountants don't decide who gets refunds, its their job to manage the money and keep as much of it as possible. They probably don't even know what an MMORPG is.
Go find me a Corporation that runs it any different.
I'd like to believe that there are still some people left in gaming that actually take pride in their work and want to give people a good experience, as well as make money. I admit, I become more skeptical as time goes on.
I'm sure on a creative level most of them do. What I am talking about is the corporate machine that runs it all. Its job is to make money and everyone who works for it must accomodate that. Sometimes the people who make those decisions benefit the customer, sometimes they don't.
I guess we will see if that has any real impact on anything in CoX. IMHO, the clock is ticking for this game in any event. Then its off to the ranks of yesterdays game as it will lose its claim to fame, being the only Superhero MMO on the market.
That sounds like pretty good summary right there.
Important update on this issue: The dev responsible for the pvp revamp has been reading the posts and pms of current players, AND changing the code of the revamp to incorporate their input. Changes in the latest beta patch restore powers that had been removed, and restore much of the balance and fun that the initial plan was about to destroy.
I have to tell you, I was very pleasantly surprised by this response from the developer. They are still making changes, but they are not flushing their current players and their progress down the toilet any longer. This is a very welcome change from past experiences in SWG.
There's still some ways to go to listen to current players, but the dev team seems to have turned the corner, and they seem to be going in a much more positive direction. Non-pvpers AND pvpers alike now feel that they ALL have input into the process. Honestly guys, this is huge to me. They're really looking at addressing the issues BEFORE this goes live. I'm very pleased.
Until they unnerf energy transfer they still suck.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Just goes to show that when you stop being a idiot and actually give real feedback things get done.
If you are watching the official forum you will see that the "DEVS SUCK!!!!!" "WE ARE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT WE WANT!!!!!" posts have stopped and the majority of posts are now well thought out and intelligent.
Of course, unlike Lighthouse, ExLibris mod smacks the usless posts almost as fast as they are posted.
Heh, well when you have people spend a lot of hours collecting feedback, and then most of it is disregarded, people are going to react. The reaction is going to be stronger if their in-game progress appears to be thrown in the trash, and it's going to be even stronger if they get the message that they are not the "target audience" for the revamp.
The outpouring of frustration over this was very predictable. At the same time, I agree with you that the anger led people to say things that wouldn't constitute constructive feedback at first. Mainly they just vented. After the venting, those that stayed, were able to start analyzing the situation, and providing constructive input. To Castle's credit, he was able to see the value of some of the feedback in spite of the venting phase.
This could have gone smoother from lots of angles. Having said that, it appears that cooler heads will prevail, and in the end, that's important I think.
O.k. more beta testing for me
.
People just took it the wrong way. Based on what LH said, I honestly think he misunderstood what the devs were doing. Posi said very plainly that they tried everything the pvp community asked for and each and every one of them other then dual builds sucked. Everything was a complete failure because the system was screwed up. They are not going to put time and effort into something that a minority of players use unless it will bring in more people. Thats what they are trying to do.
Btw, I know its a digital superhero fantasy world, but can we get real for a second here? I have never seen devs give a frig about who said what where or how once they decided to do something, least of all any dev ever affiliated with cox. The only reason they are taking into account and implementing anything any current player says (which supposedly they already had on file) is because Lighthouse leaked the truth that they could give a rats hind parts about the current pvp playerbase. That's it. Lucid arguments have never meant anything to any incarnation of cox management and this is no different. Not that Champions Online will be any better, but NCsoft has enjoyed its domination of this niche market for too long, and until it has some competition out there neither your opinion, nor mine, means anything to them unless apparently, to save face.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Soooo..the sky isn't falling???
Not so much "warm and fuzzy" for the poor Tabula Rasa people though, their sky just exploded.
Lesson here: don't forget these games are about money first.
In the last 2 years CoH dropped from about 187, 000 subs to about 145,000 subs.
Not exactly the type of numbers that support a "not really enough to retain a high volume of players" argument.
www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
Soooo..the sky isn't falling???
Not so much "warm and fuzzy" for the poor Tabula Rasa people though, their sky just exploded.
Lesson here: don't forget these games are about money first.
Lol the guy who codes the sky appears to have made some important changes in light of current player feedback. As a result the sky seems to be ascending once again, ever so slighty
. I just hope it keeps going in an upward direction between now and when this issue goes live 0_o.
I also hope that they can pull off a positive Issue 14 (mission architect) without the same level of controversy associated with this one.
Maybe you should actually try playing the game again. PvP is not instanced outside of the arena and there are actually 4 pvp zones, one of which is a free for all zone.
I felt the AI was on par with most other games I have played. As for redundant, I find it no more so than WoW or WAR.
I agree with those that indicated that low levels are hard. Honestly, that is part of why I've played CoX heavily for over two years. When you get to higher levels people have great strategy on average. I'm older, and biased as such, but it is clear that most of the higher level players are mature either of years or just intelligent kids.
Also, I don't know about the numbers, but I ALWAYS see a ton of people on.
Dark Astoria - freedom
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga