It is a damn shame they had time to focus on all this post launch content, yet they didn't have time to complete the content and fix bugs before release. Maybe with their next MMORPG, they will finally learn from their mistakes with AO and the new mistakes with AoC. There could be hope for Secret World.
I always buy MMOs at time of release (if I have interest)
After having experienced both Anarchy Online and AOC at release
any future game from Funcom, I'll wait for a trial ...
Originally posted by Ascension08 Right, I think if you play something it's hard to review 100% unbiased. And when you throw money in the mix well it's even harder. I do expect all sites to be as unbiased as possible of course, and I attribute the 90+ ratings to the fact that AoC polished Tortage.
Its also important to note that the problem with stats would not have been noticed in the newb zone because you only had very basic gear and it was replaced relatively soon. The broken feats would also have not shown light on themselves as well. IN fact, the vast majority of the BIG issues in this game would have never been seen from Tortage...which only goes to prove that they forced their beta players to cap at 13 for a REASON.
This was all very deliberate.
I agree about the deliberate part. Because when I saw the level caps back when beta was announced it made me instantly suspicious.
But I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that they had internal testers doing that part and thatt he "beta" was mostly for PR. And that the reason for the level restriction was because the higher levels of almost all MMOs releases are more buggy and they wanted to present as good a picture as possible.
Now that might sound bad but I don't think Open Betas are not useful for testing any more and should be used as preview events and stress tests only.
But clearly things like Sieges simply were barely tested if at all.
From my point of view, people should be canceling to show to the other developers of the upcoming titles that the gaming community does not approve being treated like idiots. Every time Gaute says something new, it insults my intelligence, because by now I know that he is selling me bollocks. Not even a month has passed from the official launch of the game and they are already selling the features that should be there at launch as a "roadmap" for the future. AOC might have a potential to be a good game, but judging from the product that is here now, it should stay in beta for quite some time more. We didn't see half of the promised features, and the ones present are not working 100%, so why the hell should anyone continue paying subscriptions in the following months taking their word for it? I'm a Conan fan from when I was a little kid, but I am so split between wanting this game to crash and burn for the sake of sending a clear message to the rest of the developers that this is not the way to treat the people who buy your product. and wanting it to succeed so they can continue developing "The secret world", which I hope Gaute has no fingers even close to it. In either case, they get no sub fee from me no matter how many pretty things they write on paper. Just about any other product you buy on this planet, you buy in the finished state, or considet it a fraud if someone sells you something that isn't in the state it should be. There is just some crazy mantra that got rooted in the MMO community that "No MMO is finished at launch" - What would you say to the baker if he would sell you a half-baked bread - Or the car salesman if he sold you the car with 2 wheels and no seats - If someone sold you a half-full bottle of wine - If someone sold you a TV without a screen - or a fridge without a door. - If you payed for a full-body massage and got only a back massage. - If you payed for swimming in a pool, but they didn't tell you that theres water in it only 2x per week. I don't see any reason MMO gamers should be satisfied with anything but complete products.
this is a classic example of what an AoC defender or fanboy will ignore completely. I still havent seen an answer to all these examples. Come on say something else than "the game has nice graphics" or "go play something else".
the reason we all attack AoC or more specifically Funcom is that they lied to us. Plain and simple, and no i am not paid by Blizz or EA.
The reason no-one has replied to them is that they are very silly & generally not worth the effort.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples refers to a static product rather than a membership based service.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples would render the product completely & utterly unusable, with even the pool only being available 28% of the time.
This is clearly not the case for AoC as many (or maybe even most) players are happily playing the game with few problems. Just how are these grievances about whether the new material should have been included from launch in any way comparable to a 'TV without a screen'?
As the saying goes, "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate"!
You want to play it that way?
Cable TV promises me 200 channels for the price of $100. They gave me 100 channels, and will add the other 100 over time in 6 months. In the mean time, keep paying $100/month.
Pay $70 for fiber optics internet. Only they tell you, oh sorry, we don't support your area at the moment, but we'll replace it with DSL for now and give you the fiber optics when it's available in your area. However, it's still $70/month.
I'm sure people won't put up with the above, why should MMO players?
From my point of view, people should be canceling to show to the other developers of the upcoming titles that the gaming community does not approve being treated like idiots. Every time Gaute says something new, it insults my intelligence, because by now I know that he is selling me bollocks. Not even a month has passed from the official launch of the game and they are already selling the features that should be there at launch as a "roadmap" for the future. AOC might have a potential to be a good game, but judging from the product that is here now, it should stay in beta for quite some time more. We didn't see half of the promised features, and the ones present are not working 100%, so why the hell should anyone continue paying subscriptions in the following months taking their word for it? I'm a Conan fan from when I was a little kid, but I am so split between wanting this game to crash and burn for the sake of sending a clear message to the rest of the developers that this is not the way to treat the people who buy your product. and wanting it to succeed so they can continue developing "The secret world", which I hope Gaute has no fingers even close to it. In either case, they get no sub fee from me no matter how many pretty things they write on paper. Just about any other product you buy on this planet, you buy in the finished state, or considet it a fraud if someone sells you something that isn't in the state it should be. There is just some crazy mantra that got rooted in the MMO community that "No MMO is finished at launch" - What would you say to the baker if he would sell you a half-baked bread - Or the car salesman if he sold you the car with 2 wheels and no seats - If someone sold you a half-full bottle of wine - If someone sold you a TV without a screen - or a fridge without a door. - If you payed for a full-body massage and got only a back massage. - If you payed for swimming in a pool, but they didn't tell you that theres water in it only 2x per week. I don't see any reason MMO gamers should be satisfied with anything but complete products.
-So what would you say to the baker if he sold you a half loaf of bread but said in a day I will give you two extra loaves?
-The car salesman sells you a car with 2 wheels n no seats but will replace it with a hummer in a few days.
-Someone sold you half bottle of wine but a few days later gives you much more expencive french wine.
-Sold you a tv with no screen but replaces it with a large screen plasma shortly after?
-A fridge with no door will be replaced with a large double door fridge?
-Got only a back massage but later on get a full body massage n then some?
-Paid for a pool with only water in two days a week, then get your pool filled heated along with a hottub besides it?
Really two can play at that game...n it can be played both ways...
What you say might be worth considering, if the seller told you that before you actually bought the thing. In case of AOC however, most of the things they promised is not a bonus you get, most of those things are supposed to be in the basic package from the start ... So to continue to play the analogy game, it would be like selling you a half bottle of wine for the price of full one, and then latter add the volume missing that you already payed for, and not adding an extra bottle of expensive french wine
Basicaly theres a diffference if the seller tells you:
- Look ... I know you want the full liter of wine, but unfortunately I ran out of it, I can give you this half instead, and as soon as my shippment arrives I will make sure I give you the other half,
or
- Here you have an extra bottle of best wine, I will pack it into the bag for you, but you can't open the bag untill you come home. (you come home and realise the bottle is half full)
Personally I am a very forgiving person if people are upfront with me, because I know that things can get delayed, and things can go wrong in any line of work, however I hate when someone self-righteously lies to my face.
Ok the bottle analogy might be kind of moot here, but important thing is the principle. Many people that are pissed wouldn't be half as pissed if FC didn't sell them bollocks in a bag. Ironicaly, even after they sold it, and knew many people realised they've been screwed, they still keep repeating the same mantra how it was the best sale/purchase ever.
From my point of view, people should be canceling to show to the other developers of the upcoming titles that the gaming community does not approve being treated like idiots. Every time Gaute says something new, it insults my intelligence, because by now I know that he is selling me bollocks. Not even a month has passed from the official launch of the game and they are already selling the features that should be there at launch as a "roadmap" for the future. AOC might have a potential to be a good game, but judging from the product that is here now, it should stay in beta for quite some time more. We didn't see half of the promised features, and the ones present are not working 100%, so why the hell should anyone continue paying subscriptions in the following months taking their word for it? I'm a Conan fan from when I was a little kid, but I am so split between wanting this game to crash and burn for the sake of sending a clear message to the rest of the developers that this is not the way to treat the people who buy your product. and wanting it to succeed so they can continue developing "The secret world", which I hope Gaute has no fingers even close to it. In either case, they get no sub fee from me no matter how many pretty things they write on paper. Just about any other product you buy on this planet, you buy in the finished state, or considet it a fraud if someone sells you something that isn't in the state it should be. There is just some crazy mantra that got rooted in the MMO community that "No MMO is finished at launch" - What would you say to the baker if he would sell you a half-baked bread - Or the car salesman if he sold you the car with 2 wheels and no seats - If someone sold you a half-full bottle of wine - If someone sold you a TV without a screen - or a fridge without a door. - If you payed for a full-body massage and got only a back massage. - If you payed for swimming in a pool, but they didn't tell you that theres water in it only 2x per week. I don't see any reason MMO gamers should be satisfied with anything but complete products.
this is a classic example of what an AoC defender or fanboy will ignore completely. I still havent seen an answer to all these examples. Come on say something else than "the game has nice graphics" or "go play something else".
the reason we all attack AoC or more specifically Funcom is that they lied to us. Plain and simple, and no i am not paid by Blizz or EA.
The reason no-one has replied to them is that they are very silly & generally not worth the effort.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples refers to a static product rather than a membership based service.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples would render the product completely & utterly unusable, with even the pool only being available 28% of the time.
This is clearly not the case for AoC as many (or maybe even most) players are happily playing the game with few problems. Just how are these grievances about whether the new material should have been included from launch in any way comparable to a 'TV without a screen'?
As the saying goes, "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate"!
You want to play it that way?
Cable TV promises me 200 channels for the price of $100. They gave me 100 channels, and will add the other 100 over time in 6 months. In the mean time, keep paying $100/month.
Pay $70 for fiber optics internet. Only they tell you, oh sorry, we don't support your area at the moment, but we'll replace it with DSL for now and give you the fiber optics when it's available in your area. However, it's still $70/month.
I'm sure people won't put up with the above, why should MMO players?
Of course people wouldn't put up with the above, but again they are irrelevant.
In the first example there is quite literally half the content missing, if you are alleging that with AoC could you substantiate your claims please? Also, everyone knows that not all TV channels are the same so it isn't generally a good idea to judge cable providers by quantity not quality.
In the second example there is an implied major difference in performance speeds, again could you substantiate what aspect of AoC are you referring to? Also, this would have been obvious before the contract started as fiber optics & DSL are entirely different systems.
In both examples, the suggested costs are five to seven times higher than an AoC subscription, which I assume is for dramatic effect.
Is that really the best you could do? Why all this hysteria just $15 a month when that would barely cover one evening at the movies? Assuming you bought the standard edition, the cost of the original game might have paid for two evenings, depending on how much popcorn you bought. What I am getting at is that compared to other forms of entertainment, computer games are very cheap so please try to keep things in perspective.
Yes of course it would have been better everything they have planned was there from launch. If you don't think the game is worth the cost of the subscription then don't play it, but it is ridiculous to allege that you have been swindled to the degree implied by those excessively exaggerated examples.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
You're an idiot. Yes, you are. The people who reviewed it, released their review the same day as the box hit the shelves.
How the hell can you review a MMO in one day? (or 6 days if they played earlier!) I've seen very few, good reviews that came weeks later.
Edit: I was suppose to quote this to a person on page 2 in this topic, stating that the reviews gave the game good reviews, and those should be trusted the most.
To all those who are complaining about being lied to by Funcom and comparing this to cars sold with two wheels etc and promised this and given something less:-
First off, all MMOs do this, which of course does not make it correct. However it still happens, Why?
I don't myself, but i do know that there must be something concrete that causes this to happen to all MMO producers across the board.
Secondly, you compare this to buying a car with two wheels etc. You do have to appreciate that the MMO market is not for the masses(console games are for the masses btw).
Contrary to what you may think the MMO genre is still pretty young and is still developing.
Now to pick up you car analogy, you are failing to comapre like to like.
The car industry is almost a century old, more or less. In the early days of car development, cars would break down all the time they were extremely unreliable. This is because the design and building techniques were all new and not tried before. Now a days this is not the case, you may still see a brand new car break down but that is a one off.
Compare this to AoC, Aoc have introduced a host of new things not actually tried before, collison dectection(other devs shied away from this as it was too much to deal with).
Funcom gave it a go, with nothing to use as a bench mark.
Aoc has introduced mounted combat and seige warfare, again with nothing going before it which can be used as an example.
Now if in the infancy of the car industry everyone decided that they would not drive cars unless they were 100% reliable then the market would have died and there would be know cars out today.
And believe you me game genres can die and die before you know it.
For example, the combat flight simulation market is almost dead on the PC at the moment( I think only Maddox games make combat sims atm), as is the Racing sims market(only Sim bin makes racing sims now)
So you got to understand that the MMO world is still developing and in an idea world FUNCOM would love to release an all singing and dancing game and then retire. But unfor this is not the case.
So we can all abandon sincere efforts by gaming companies to produce better and better games, or just sit back and play the ones that run perfectly already(WoW for example).
I for one would like to see the progression of this genre so am willing to put with games that are relased unfinished(for what ever reason they are), and to stand by companies like FUNCOM who have the same ambition as i do, which is to produce something new and different against the odds they face and against the short sighted nay sayers and trolls that come from a generation of "i want it all and i want it now".
Comments
I always buy MMOs at time of release (if I have interest)
After having experienced both Anarchy Online and AOC at release
any future game from Funcom, I'll wait for a trial ...
EQ2 fan sites
Its also important to note that the problem with stats would not have been noticed in the newb zone because you only had very basic gear and it was replaced relatively soon. The broken feats would also have not shown light on themselves as well. IN fact, the vast majority of the BIG issues in this game would have never been seen from Tortage...which only goes to prove that they forced their beta players to cap at 13 for a REASON.
This was all very deliberate.
I agree about the deliberate part. Because when I saw the level caps back when beta was announced it made me instantly suspicious.
But I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that they had internal testers doing that part and thatt he "beta" was mostly for PR. And that the reason for the level restriction was because the higher levels of almost all MMOs releases are more buggy and they wanted to present as good a picture as possible.
Now that might sound bad but I don't think Open Betas are not useful for testing any more and should be used as preview events and stress tests only.
But clearly things like Sieges simply were barely tested if at all.
this is a classic example of what an AoC defender or fanboy will ignore completely. I still havent seen an answer to all these examples. Come on say something else than "the game has nice graphics" or "go play something else".
the reason we all attack AoC or more specifically Funcom is that they lied to us. Plain and simple, and no i am not paid by Blizz or EA.
The reason no-one has replied to them is that they are very silly & generally not worth the effort.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples refers to a static product rather than a membership based service.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples would render the product completely & utterly unusable, with even the pool only being available 28% of the time.
This is clearly not the case for AoC as many (or maybe even most) players are happily playing the game with few problems. Just how are these grievances about whether the new material should have been included from launch in any way comparable to a 'TV without a screen'?
As the saying goes, "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate"!
You want to play it that way?
Cable TV promises me 200 channels for the price of $100. They gave me 100 channels, and will add the other 100 over time in 6 months. In the mean time, keep paying $100/month.
Pay $70 for fiber optics internet. Only they tell you, oh sorry, we don't support your area at the moment, but we'll replace it with DSL for now and give you the fiber optics when it's available in your area. However, it's still $70/month.
I'm sure people won't put up with the above, why should MMO players?
-So what would you say to the baker if he sold you a half loaf of bread but said in a day I will give you two extra loaves?
-The car salesman sells you a car with 2 wheels n no seats but will replace it with a hummer in a few days.
-Someone sold you half bottle of wine but a few days later gives you much more expencive french wine.
-Sold you a tv with no screen but replaces it with a large screen plasma shortly after?
-A fridge with no door will be replaced with a large double door fridge?
-Got only a back massage but later on get a full body massage n then some
?
-Paid for a pool with only water in two days a week, then get your pool filled heated along with a hottub besides it?
Really two can play at that game...n it can be played both ways...
What you say might be worth considering, if the seller told you that before you actually bought the thing. In case of AOC however, most of the things they promised is not a bonus you get, most of those things are supposed to be in the basic package from the start ... So to continue to play the analogy game, it would be like selling you a half bottle of wine for the price of full one, and then latter add the volume missing that you already payed for, and not adding an extra bottle of expensive french wine
Basicaly theres a diffference if the seller tells you:
- Look ... I know you want the full liter of wine, but unfortunately I ran out of it, I can give you this half instead, and as soon as my shippment arrives I will make sure I give you the other half,
or
- Here you have an extra bottle of best wine, I will pack it into the bag for you, but you can't open the bag untill you come home. (you come home and realise the bottle is half full)
Personally I am a very forgiving person if people are upfront with me, because I know that things can get delayed, and things can go wrong in any line of work, however I hate when someone self-righteously lies to my face.
Ok the bottle analogy might be kind of moot here, but important thing is the principle. Many people that are pissed wouldn't be half as pissed if FC didn't sell them bollocks in a bag. Ironicaly, even after they sold it, and knew many people realised they've been screwed, they still keep repeating the same mantra how it was the best sale/purchase ever.
this is a classic example of what an AoC defender or fanboy will ignore completely. I still havent seen an answer to all these examples. Come on say something else than "the game has nice graphics" or "go play something else".
the reason we all attack AoC or more specifically Funcom is that they lied to us. Plain and simple, and no i am not paid by Blizz or EA.
The reason no-one has replied to them is that they are very silly & generally not worth the effort.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples refers to a static product rather than a membership based service.
With the exception of the last example, every single one of those ludicrously exaggerated examples would render the product completely & utterly unusable, with even the pool only being available 28% of the time.
This is clearly not the case for AoC as many (or maybe even most) players are happily playing the game with few problems. Just how are these grievances about whether the new material should have been included from launch in any way comparable to a 'TV without a screen'?
As the saying goes, "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate"!
You want to play it that way?
Cable TV promises me 200 channels for the price of $100. They gave me 100 channels, and will add the other 100 over time in 6 months. In the mean time, keep paying $100/month.
Pay $70 for fiber optics internet. Only they tell you, oh sorry, we don't support your area at the moment, but we'll replace it with DSL for now and give you the fiber optics when it's available in your area. However, it's still $70/month.
I'm sure people won't put up with the above, why should MMO players?
Of course people wouldn't put up with the above, but again they are irrelevant.
In the first example there is quite literally half the content missing, if you are alleging that with AoC could you substantiate your claims please? Also, everyone knows that not all TV channels are the same so it isn't generally a good idea to judge cable providers by quantity not quality.
In the second example there is an implied major difference in performance speeds, again could you substantiate what aspect of AoC are you referring to? Also, this would have been obvious before the contract started as fiber optics & DSL are entirely different systems.
In both examples, the suggested costs are five to seven times higher than an AoC subscription, which I assume is for dramatic effect.
Is that really the best you could do? Why all this hysteria just $15 a month when that would barely cover one evening at the movies? Assuming you bought the standard edition, the cost of the original game might have paid for two evenings, depending on how much popcorn you bought. What I am getting at is that compared to other forms of entertainment, computer games are very cheap so please try to keep things in perspective.
Yes of course it would have been better everything they have planned was there from launch. If you don't think the game is worth the cost of the subscription then don't play it, but it is ridiculous to allege that you have been swindled to the degree implied by those excessively exaggerated examples.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
You're an idiot. Yes, you are. The people who reviewed it, released their review the same day as the box hit the shelves.
How the hell can you review a MMO in one day? (or 6 days if they played earlier!) I've seen very few, good reviews that came weeks later.
Edit: I was suppose to quote this to a person on page 2 in this topic, stating that the reviews gave the game good reviews, and those should be trusted the most.
To all those who are complaining about being lied to by Funcom and comparing this to cars sold with two wheels etc and promised this and given something less:-
First off, all MMOs do this, which of course does not make it correct. However it still happens, Why?
I don't myself, but i do know that there must be something concrete that causes this to happen to all MMO producers across the board.
Secondly, you compare this to buying a car with two wheels etc. You do have to appreciate that the MMO market is not for the masses(console games are for the masses btw).
Contrary to what you may think the MMO genre is still pretty young and is still developing.
Now to pick up you car analogy, you are failing to comapre like to like.
The car industry is almost a century old, more or less. In the early days of car development, cars would break down all the time they were extremely unreliable. This is because the design and building techniques were all new and not tried before. Now a days this is not the case, you may still see a brand new car break down but that is a one off.
Compare this to AoC, Aoc have introduced a host of new things not actually tried before, collison dectection(other devs shied away from this as it was too much to deal with).
Funcom gave it a go, with nothing to use as a bench mark.
Aoc has introduced mounted combat and seige warfare, again with nothing going before it which can be used as an example.
Now if in the infancy of the car industry everyone decided that they would not drive cars unless they were 100% reliable then the market would have died and there would be know cars out today.
And believe you me game genres can die and die before you know it.
For example, the combat flight simulation market is almost dead on the PC at the moment( I think only Maddox games make combat sims atm), as is the Racing sims market(only Sim bin makes racing sims now)
So you got to understand that the MMO world is still developing and in an idea world FUNCOM would love to release an all singing and dancing game and then retire. But unfor this is not the case.
So we can all abandon sincere efforts by gaming companies to produce better and better games, or just sit back and play the ones that run perfectly already(WoW for example).
I for one would like to see the progression of this genre so am willing to put with games that are relased unfinished(for what ever reason they are), and to stand by companies like FUNCOM who have the same ambition as i do, which is to produce something new and different against the odds they face and against the short sighted nay sayers and trolls that come from a generation of "i want it all and i want it now".
So what is it that you want may i ask?