Well, I haven't tried WAR yet, but is comparing a game that's been polished over 4 years fair to a game that was released a few weeks ago? Is the OP assuming WAR will never try and improve the game?
I mostly agree with the OP, though I dont play WOW for many reasons, I share the critique in WAR. It feels... artificial. Like made-up, it feels more like a game than a world with character, more like a stage. Its not a bad game, but I cant imagine myself more than one level-through run and then quit.
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by EliteMarine WOW is making another ex pac making all the tier 6 and brutal glad gear useless again so you can grind and do it all over again and again and the cycle will continue until the game finnaly dies off prolly in another 3 years or so.
ER, when WAR is ready for an xpac, do you really think it won't contain new items that basically make all of your old gear obsolete? If so, then you never played DAOC.
I didn´t read the whole thread. But if I remember correctly, since the release through all the xpacs a weapon in DAoC always had 16.2 (or 16.5 at Realmrank 5) dps at 100% quality. Sure there were some stats or some procs added.
super mega easy games, where everything is given to you.
Raiding a joke.(dont know about WAR raid yet, havn't experienced it)
PvE in general a joke.
Pvp a joke - not so much in WAR, but the pvp/rvr has got nothing on DAoC.
This may change when the majority of the population is in T4 - actually i expect it will.
MMORPGs nowadays are designed so 5yr olds can play em. Give me a game I have to learn, and classes I have to learn, and not be mastered at lvl 10, because there isn't really all that much to learn about classes now.
the OP is clearly closed minded... "eeewww change" is what i can sum up his thoughs about warhammer. Let him go back to wow, he will be right back on these forums looking for a new game to hate in a month when he bores of doing the same old sht for another 10 level. Honestly the less kids like this in warhammer the better the community will be. i just love how everyones expecting a new game to be as polished as a game 4years old i also love the extreme nitpicking, these kids really like to overlook the big picture and turn things a normal person wouldnt even notice into huge game breaking problems please....go back to wow
Sorry but thats a really lame response to a well written and thought out post. OK so his opinions threaten your way of life in WAR in some way......well just because he has an opinion of WAR that doesnt agree with yours it doesnt mean he is close minded. The fact that you used the sad old "go back to WoW" warcry sums you up very well indeed. Geez its sooooooo boring seeing that get said all the bloody time. Try having an original thought sometime. YOU are one of those "kiddies" that you are referring to.
Sorry but thats a really lame response to a well written and thought out post.
You know what, I found nothing original or special about this post at all that is worth spawning page after page after PAGE of responces.
He just made one huge wall of text over the most basic subject we've been discussing over all those years now, WoW is the most polished game.
We know that, thank you, and nobody else ever will probably make a more polished MMORPG than WoW. But like I said, WE KNOW THAT! It's starting to get annoying to hear it all the time now
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by DuraheLL We know that, thank you, and nobody else ever will probably make a more polished MMORPG than WoW. But like I said, WE KNOW THAT! It's starting to get annoying to hear it all the time now
Why are you getting so upset? No one is making a personal insult; just stating an opinion (see I did that just for you : ) ). You'd think that folks could learn to ignore something like this.
To the OP, WoW is a very refined game and I can certainly appreciate the work Blizzard has done. Having said that I think EA/Mythic is on the right track here. While I haven't decided whether I'll continue my subscription, WAR isn't a bad game. Given time I'm confident EA/Mythic will continue to build on the framework (yeah, I'll agree there's not much to the game atm) and improve the game.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I agree with your description of WAR as it does indeed seem to throw endless rewards in the players direction without any real effort being required to obtain them. It is very clearly an amusement park and isnt really intended to be a world you can explore as such. Despite all of that though I dont think WoW is any better at all. WoW is also an amusement park but its just a bit more open. It certainly never created the illusion of a world for me.......I always felt that I was running through a grindy themepark. In fact WAR does a MUCH better job of creating the illusion of a world. There is so much activity going on that the world really feels alive. WoW doesnt even come close in this respect. The good thing about WAR is that it doesnt try to be a world and because of this I think it is better than WoW, which tries to be something which it clearly isnt. The combat in WAR feels fine to me. Its basicly the same as WoW so I cant really see how you can think WoW is more satisfying. You're still just spamming the same buttons in a theraputic rythm so whats the difference? I also thought the animations in WAR are nicer to look at. Add to that the fact that WAR's graphics and character models are very clearly miles ahead of WOW's which are now looking rather dated. Some of those landscapes actually look quite spectacular. The giant stomping around in the greenskin beginning area is just great! The difficulty or challenge you refer to in WoW is also just an illusion.......unless you count large amounts of tedium and mind numbing boredom as a challenge which I suppose it is in a way. Its just not the kind of challenge I am particularly interested in paying money for. I would rather have fun personally. I dont know whether WAR will hold my attention for many months but I do at least get the feeling that my efforts mean something in the game which is a feeling I certainly never got from playing WoW. To be honest though these themepark games dont usually hold my attention for anything more than a couple of months anyway. However WAR has focused more on PvP which I think is the point of these types of games anyway. I would not compare the effort of accomplishing something in WAR with anything that can be achieved in real life. Sorry but achieving things in real life requires a lot more effort and is far more rewarding than spending huge amounts of time grinding things in WoW. I find that comparison rather silly actually. Otherwise though your post was a pretty good one.
Yep. Excellent points.
I think it's worth asking this question: how many MMO gamers are just pathologically addicted to video games? The MMORPG genre has possibly more addicts than any other genre. They are looking for a substitute for real life and that's never going to happen. It's all an illusion. The perfect sandbox, Conan-style mounted combat, 1000v1000 epic siege, level-less, no-grind MMO will never be made.
200 years ago no-one would have dreamed of being able to fly in the skies. There were lots of people just like you who said the words "It will never happen". Now we see giant metal birds in the sky all the time.
50 years ago no-one would have ever dreamed of playing the games we have now over a thing called the internet. There were lots of people just like you who said the words "It will never happen". Now we all play games over the internet.
20 years ago I used to play games on my Spectrum 48k. The games came on cassettes and I had to load them on a tape recorder. Sometimes they wouldnt load unless I had the volume at exactly the right level. There was no save-game options and it was a break through when games came out that were able to display multiple colours on the screen without the colours clashing.
8 years ago I played Everquest 1 which was my first mmo.
Yesterday I played WAR.
Basicly in the last 20 years games have moved from Monty Mole on the Spectrum to Warhammer Online on the PC and over the internet. If someone had shown me Warhammer Online 20 years ago my eyes would have popped out of my head in complete awe and wonder. If games can progress that much in 20 years then in another 20 years games will be something else entirely.
When people such as yourself say daft things like "It will never happen" I begin to wonder what planet you are living on. You have heard of virtual reality right? You have seen the holo-deck on Star Trek right? Have you ever read any Alastair Reynolds books? You do realise dont you that everything the human race imagines eventually becomes reality. It might take many many years but it all happens in the end. You are aware that the human race evolves as time goes on right?
The perfect sand box game? Of course it will happen. In 20 years time Warhammer Online will be the equivalent of a Spectrum game. "Sandbox" wont even be a term that applies to anything any more as it will just be the standard of games that get played over the internet. In fact the internet could well be something else by then. Hell you may even find yourself one day talking to the "mobs" yourself as their AI could be advanced enough to hold a conversation with you
Played WoW for four years and not once did I have an impact on the world. WoW is a collection game. That's what I did for four years. I collected crap. When I realized that raiding was the utmost boring way to spend a few hours a night I started collecting passive pets. When you raid you collect gear, do BG's and you collect marks to use to collecdt gear, do arenas and you collect points to use to collect more gear, proffesions are used to collect items to turn into other things that you collect (not suprising I was an eng.).
I completely disagree with the OP. WoW is a bigger step back from UO and EQ then WAR is, and you can't compare WoW to UO, they aren't anything remotely similliar; just like EQ and UO aren't anything like the same game.
The only comparison you can make between WoW and WAR is that they use the same basic EQ combat mechanics. Outside of that they are nothing alike.
Quit with the WAR borrowed from WoW BS. No Mythic did not; nor would they have to.
WoW uses elements from DAoC and if you're unaware Mythic made DAoC. Mythic is barrowing from themself, not WoW. Alterac Valley was an attempt by blizzard to create a PvP zone that reflected the battlegrounds of DAoC.
For the love of god, Warcraft was blizzards adaptation of the Warhammer tabletop game. Blizzard has never made a TRUELLY original game. The RTS games are all drawn from previous games; even diablo has elements of games that came before. I do not know why so many people insist on giving Blizzard credit for inovating when they only inovation they ever made was to make previous inovations accesable to more people. Hell, they even take inspiration from modern pop culture.
If you prefer PvE then play WoW, VG, EQ, EQ2, CoX, etc.
If you prefer PvP/ RvR then I say play WAR.
Quit trying to draw comparisons between the two games, they aren't the same.
It really only boils down to one point:
The OP prefers PvE, and a more open and immersive world. They want a sandbox.
Why are you getting so upset? No one is making a personal insult; just stating an opinion (see I did that just for you : ) ). You'd think that folks could learn to ignore something like this.
I'm not upset. Only a bit irritated over this thread.
It's quite a di** move to slap threads like this onto the board to be honest. "This game made me realize what a brilliant game WoW is" (for short)
That makes it just sound like "This game is so sub-par, and it looks like cra* compared to WoW.
I think anyone with at least a little trace of sence in their mind understand that WoW is so polished. But IMO it's just a very very very very polished ROCK instead of WAR which I think is a uncut diamond. That is my compareance.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless.
Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP!
Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me.
Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
I'm not reading ANYTHING on this topic. All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless. Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP! Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me. Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
/High five.
Now that's the kind of truth you'r never allowed to speak in this forum.
Put on a flame suit cus I feel the "anti-fans" are coming this way!
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Why are you getting so upset? No one is making a personal insult; just stating an opinion (see I did that just for you : ) ). You'd think that folks could learn to ignore something like this.
I'm not upset. Only a bit irritated over this thread.
It's quite a di** move to slap threads like this onto the board to be honest. "This game made me realize what a brilliant game WoW is" (for short)
That makes it just sound like "This game is so sub-par, and it looks like cra* compared to WoW.
I think anyone with at least a little trace of sence in their mind understand that WoW is so polished. But IMO it's just a very very very very polished ROCK instead of WAR which I think is a uncut diamond. That is my compareance.
I have to agree.
No matter how intelligently mature you write it, a thread like this is nothing more the a WoW is better then WAR post.
I just don't understand how it's appropriate to WAR forum as the bulk of the thead pertains to WoW.
I have an idea. Why don't these threads get posted in the WoW forum were they would be more suited, and in it's rightful place. I'm just getting a little sick of coming here and reading threads about WoW. I can go to the WoW forum and do that.
Edit: I can't say this enough.
If you want a PvE game then go play WoW.
If you want a PvP/ RvR game then come play WAR.
And I'll add that if you tried WAR thinking it was going to be another WoW game then shame on you. If you can write you can read and you should have read what the game was about first. Stop trying to force the opinion that one is better then the other because YOU thought they were the same game. They aren't the same and one isn't any better then the other. They appeal to completely dif. playstyles. Figure that out and move on already.
I'm not reading ANYTHING on this topic. All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless. Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP! Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me. Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
I love you, man! Felt the same about WoW when TBC came out. After five minutes of installing the expansion, I realized I didn't want to play on a gear based hamster wheel called WoW any more. That was two years ago. Haven't looked back since.
I get your point but there is no point to make some review of how your gonna go play wow again. Let us enjoy warhammer online and you go play the same old grind game thats been around for 3 years. I am a ex wow player and this game may be a little buggy but this stuff will get fixed. WOW is making another ex pac making all the tier 6 and brutal glad gear useless again so you can grind and do it all over again and again and the cycle will continue until the game finnaly dies off prolly in another 3 years or so.
Yes much like EQ has died off....
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless.
Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP!
Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me.
Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
HMM So hows that counterstrike and L2 doing for ya?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
I get your point but there is no point to make some review of how your gonna go play wow again. Let us enjoy warhammer online and you go play the same old grind game thats been around for 3 years. I am a ex wow player and this game may be a little buggy but this stuff will get fixed. WOW is making another ex pac making all the tier 6 and brutal glad gear useless again so you can grind and do it all over again and again and the cycle will continue until the game finnaly dies off prolly in another 3 years or so.
Yes much like EQ has died off....
I get what elitemarine is saying and I agree. Wow is too gear based and it's repeating bullshit. Grind grind grind, let's go get a piece of t6, grind grind grind, instance instance instance, pvp....REPEAT!
All you do on World Of Warcraft is instance because they force you to. If you want to be decent you pretty much have to...all they are doing with the patch is releasing new and better gear for the game as well as a new class. I remember working hard for my t1 and t2 gear on wow....and what happened to it? Green gear was better when TBC came out, LOL. Ye I know, it's a big LOL. It's sad. Maybe the new green gear that everyone gets will be better then t6, and maybe new sets will be released that are WAY better then that new green gear and WAYYY better then t6....because that's all world of warcraft is about. What you may ask? GEAR. So, for those wow fanbois. Go play your world of warcraft and go get your pretty little gear. Stay off of warhammer. This is for real pvp players.
On WoW, The new class just gives players more to do until the next expansion comes out that makes this new gear useless. That's what expansions are for. New levels to continue grinding, new way better gear, new classes, and a new land to explore. Sounds great but when you walk into every expansion you get to realizing it's the same repeating bullshit with a new look and feel. If the game didn't repeat so much I would probably enjoy it again. But, since it's all about instancing I won't even step foot onto world of warcraft again. I tried that last week. Didn't work out so well after 10 mins, lol.
All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless.
Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP!
Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me.
Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
HMM So hows that counterstrike and L2 doing for ya?
I am never on xfire while playing Warhammer. Your point? lol if you're trying to state that you don't see warhammer on there, here's the reason. I try to keep nothing open while playing Warhammer because I like to play it in high quality without any lag. Xfire takes up too much memory.
I'll keep it open from now on though. I knew someone would say something about my xfire, lol. Which, says nothing. Other then hey, you don't keep xfire open while playing Warhammer, lol.
I think the MMORPG genre has one major problem, and then a lot of glaring smaller ones, as well.
Primary examples of the "issue," in my opinion:
MMORPGs are NOT mmoRPGs anymore.
WAR = MMOPVPG
WoW = ALMOST MMORPG
Ultima Online = MMORPG
Ryzom = MMORPG
Vanguard = ALMOST MMORPG
Second Life = MMOG (but I really think of this one as more just virtual porn chat, with a game structure made for coding experts, actually....the real game is coding and designing for the OTHER people who willingly pay for the glorified porn chat. It's really a coding, programmers game.)
Guild Wars = ALMOST MMOPVPG
Everquest 2 = very CLOSE to an MMORPG
Everquest = a less brutal MMORPG
WURM Online = MMORPG
Rubies of Eventide = MMORPG
Darkfall = (if it ever is released) HARSH version of MMORPG
The trend I'm seeing, is that the RPG "sandbox" is missing in the games that aren't REAAAALLY rpgs. They may be close, they may have rpg ELEMENTS, but yet, they're not really mmoRPGs, in my opinion.
Also....I think a lot of people that THINK they like "mmoRPGs" probably don't really. RPG style games, initially, were not meant to be raced through to end level. Some of the games above that are listed as mmoRPGs also HAVE PvP in them, BUT...it is not the predominant FOCUS of the game. It is an aspect of "living" in a world where unpredictable things can happen at unforeseen times, it is not the primary FOCUS of the game. A game FOCUSED on PvP, is not an mmoRPG. In my opinion, a game that is focused on PvP is an MMOPVPG. Sure, it may have a fantasy setting....but does that make it an mmoRPG? I don't think so.
I could go on and on. I think most of the time we're comparing MMORPGS, we're not comparing mmoRPGs. The genre has become a muddy mess of just ANY game that is an MMO with ANY small amount of rpg ASPECTS in it, being labeled as "mmoRPG," and THIS.....is very misleading.
I think the MMORPG genre has one major problem, and then a lot of glaring smaller ones, as well. Primary examples of the "issue," in my opinion:
MMORPGs are NOT mmoRPGs anymore.
WAR = MMOPVPG WoW = ALMOST MMORPG Ultima Online = MMORPG Ryzom = MMORPG Vanguard = ALMOST MMORPG Second Life = MMOG (but I really think of this one as more just virtual porn chat, with a game structure made for coding experts, actually....the real game is coding and designing for the OTHER people who willingly pay for the glorified porn chat. It's really a coding, programmers game.) Guild Wars = ALMOST MMOPVPG Everquest 2 = very CLOSE to an MMORPG Everquest = a less brutal MMORPG WURM Online = MMORPG Rubies of Eventide = MMORPG Darkfall = (if it ever is released) HARSH version of MMORPG
The trend I'm seeing, is that the RPG "sandbox" is missing in the games that aren't REAAAALLY rpgs. They may be close, they may have rpg ELEMENTS, but yet, they're not really mmoRPGs, in my opinion. I could go on and on. I think most of the time we're comparing MMORPGS, we're not comparing mmoRPGs. The genre has become a muddy mess of just ANY game that is an MMO with ANY small amount of rpg ASPECTS in it, being labeled as "mmoRPG," and THIS.....is very misleading. Just my thoughts and opinions, nothing more.
I agree. But I guess you can say you're role playing when you MAKE A PLAYER and play him. You're creating that characters "life" by choosing his/her path in the game. By those means, we call them mmorpgs. I guess that's why they are considered all mmorpgs. But I agree and disagree. Maybe I've become a mmopvpg gamer myself. I've gone out of the Asheron's Call stage and I'm all about pvp with some questing and killing of monsters and bosses here and there. But more so want pvp more then anything. Maybe that's what alot of the mmorpg population is looking for nowadays. The need to battle other live players. We are growing up and the younger population are devils that want nothing more then to pvp as well. Therfore, the sandbox games are eventually going to be tuned out to a degree. The last part here doesn't really make sense. All I'm saying is atleast I myself have gone out of the rpg stage myself and I'm more so about pvping nowadays. But all in all remember, we are still role playing by creating a character on any game. Because it's all fantasy. =/
I find WoW's brilliance to be rooted in the MMO market as well as the genre itself.
In order for an MMO to be successful now, that MMO needs to be like WoW. This obviously was Mythic's take on making a game that a lot of people will subscribe to, and this also seems to be the case for a number of already released and soon-to-be released MMO's.
To garner the subscription numbers these MMO's need to find a way to be as good as or better than WoW which generally results in a small lapse in WoW numbers followed by a surging return when said game reaches failure.
WoW is brilliant because Blizzard is brilliant and there's no denying that. Sadly the entire genre suffers in originality due to it's unprecedented success.
I think the MMORPG genre has one major problem, and then a lot of glaring smaller ones, as well. Primary examples of the "issue," in my opinion:
MMORPGs are NOT mmoRPGs anymore.
WAR = MMOPVPG WoW = ALMOST MMORPG Ultima Online = MMORPG Ryzom = MMORPG Vanguard = ALMOST MMORPG Second Life = MMOG (but I really think of this one as more just virtual porn chat, with a game structure made for coding experts, actually....the real game is coding and designing for the OTHER people who willingly pay for the glorified porn chat. It's really a coding, programmers game.) Guild Wars = ALMOST MMOPVPG Everquest 2 = very CLOSE to an MMORPG Everquest = a less brutal MMORPG WURM Online = MMORPG Rubies of Eventide = MMORPG Darkfall = (if it ever is released) HARSH version of MMORPG
The trend I'm seeing, is that the RPG "sandbox" is missing in the games that aren't REAAAALLY rpgs. They may be close, they may have rpg ELEMENTS, but yet, they're not really mmoRPGs, in my opinion. Also....I think a lot of people that THINK they like "mmoRPGs" probably don't really. RPG style games, initially, were not meant to be raced through to end level. Some of the games above that are listed as mmoRPGs also HAVE PvP in them, BUT...it is not the predominant FOCUS of the game. It is an aspect of "living" in a world where unpredictable things can happen at unforeseen times, it is not the primary FOCUS of the game. A game FOCUSED on PvP, is not an mmoRPG. In my opinion, a game that is focused on PvP is an MMOPVPG. Sure, it may have a fantasy setting....but does that make it an mmoRPG? I don't think so. I could go on and on. I think most of the time we're comparing MMORPGS, we're not comparing mmoRPGs. The genre has become a muddy mess of just ANY game that is an MMO with ANY small amount of rpg ASPECTS in it, being labeled as "mmoRPG," and THIS.....is very misleading. Just my thoughts and opinions, nothing more.
see i just don't agree with this at all.
Sorry...I truely believe you are wrong on this and I think mmorpg makers will agree, since they market the games as mmorpgs, and not mmopvps or mmosexs or whatever. Seriously...roleplaying is a very general word and you are trying to make it very specific but you can't because in affect you wuold be redefining the language. All those listed above in your post are all mmorpgs. They maybe me mmopvp mmorpgs, but the truth of hte matter is that htey are all mmorpgs...
Comments
Nope, he isn't. Next!
I mostly agree with the OP, though I dont play WOW for many reasons, I share the critique in WAR. It feels... artificial. Like made-up, it feels more like a game than a world with character, more like a stage. Its not a bad game, but I cant imagine myself more than one level-through run and then quit.
ER, when WAR is ready for an xpac, do you really think it won't contain new items that basically make all of your old gear obsolete? If so, then you never played DAOC.
I didn´t read the whole thread. But if I remember correctly, since the release through all the xpacs a weapon in DAoC always had 16.2 (or 16.5 at Realmrank 5) dps at 100% quality. Sure there were some stats or some procs added.
Coming from EQ, from my point of view,
WoW / WAR are identical...
super mega easy games, where everything is given to you.
Raiding a joke.(dont know about WAR raid yet, havn't experienced it)
PvE in general a joke.
Pvp a joke - not so much in WAR, but the pvp/rvr has got nothing on DAoC.
This may change when the majority of the population is in T4 - actually i expect it will.
MMORPGs nowadays are designed so 5yr olds can play em. Give me a game I have to learn, and classes I have to learn, and not be mastered at lvl 10, because there isn't really all that much to learn about classes now.
my 2c.
Does anyone know how to make a mmoRPG anymore?
Sorry but thats a really lame response to a well written and thought out post. OK so his opinions threaten your way of life in WAR in some way......well just because he has an opinion of WAR that doesnt agree with yours it doesnt mean he is close minded. The fact that you used the sad old "go back to WoW" warcry sums you up very well indeed. Geez its sooooooo boring seeing that get said all the bloody time. Try having an original thought sometime. YOU are one of those "kiddies" that you are referring to.
You know what, I found nothing original or special about this post at all that is worth spawning page after page after PAGE of responces.
He just made one huge wall of text over the most basic subject we've been discussing over all those years now, WoW is the most polished game.
We know that, thank you, and nobody else ever will probably make a more polished MMORPG than WoW. But like I said, WE KNOW THAT! It's starting to get annoying to hear it all the time now
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Why are you getting so upset? No one is making a personal insult; just stating an opinion (see I did that just for you : ) ). You'd think that folks could learn to ignore something like this.
To the OP, WoW is a very refined game and I can certainly appreciate the work Blizzard has done. Having said that I think EA/Mythic is on the right track here. While I haven't decided whether I'll continue my subscription, WAR isn't a bad game. Given time I'm confident EA/Mythic will continue to build on the framework (yeah, I'll agree there's not much to the game atm) and improve the game.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Yep. Excellent points.
I think it's worth asking this question: how many MMO gamers are just pathologically addicted to video games? The MMORPG genre has possibly more addicts than any other genre. They are looking for a substitute for real life and that's never going to happen. It's all an illusion. The perfect sandbox, Conan-style mounted combat, 1000v1000 epic siege, level-less, no-grind MMO will never be made.
200 years ago no-one would have dreamed of being able to fly in the skies. There were lots of people just like you who said the words "It will never happen". Now we see giant metal birds in the sky all the time.
50 years ago no-one would have ever dreamed of playing the games we have now over a thing called the internet. There were lots of people just like you who said the words "It will never happen". Now we all play games over the internet.
20 years ago I used to play games on my Spectrum 48k. The games came on cassettes and I had to load them on a tape recorder. Sometimes they wouldnt load unless I had the volume at exactly the right level. There was no save-game options and it was a break through when games came out that were able to display multiple colours on the screen without the colours clashing.
8 years ago I played Everquest 1 which was my first mmo.
Yesterday I played WAR.
Basicly in the last 20 years games have moved from Monty Mole on the Spectrum to Warhammer Online on the PC and over the internet. If someone had shown me Warhammer Online 20 years ago my eyes would have popped out of my head in complete awe and wonder. If games can progress that much in 20 years then in another 20 years games will be something else entirely.
When people such as yourself say daft things like "It will never happen" I begin to wonder what planet you are living on. You have heard of virtual reality right? You have seen the holo-deck on Star Trek right? Have you ever read any Alastair Reynolds books? You do realise dont you that everything the human race imagines eventually becomes reality. It might take many many years but it all happens in the end. You are aware that the human race evolves as time goes on right?
The perfect sand box game? Of course it will happen. In 20 years time Warhammer Online will be the equivalent of a Spectrum game. "Sandbox" wont even be a term that applies to anything any more as it will just be the standard of games that get played over the internet. In fact the internet could well be something else by then. Hell you may even find yourself one day talking to the "mobs" yourself as their AI could be advanced enough to hold a conversation with you
Played WoW for four years and not once did I have an impact on the world. WoW is a collection game. That's what I did for four years. I collected crap. When I realized that raiding was the utmost boring way to spend a few hours a night I started collecting passive pets. When you raid you collect gear, do BG's and you collect marks to use to collecdt gear, do arenas and you collect points to use to collect more gear, proffesions are used to collect items to turn into other things that you collect (not suprising I was an eng.).
I completely disagree with the OP. WoW is a bigger step back from UO and EQ then WAR is, and you can't compare WoW to UO, they aren't anything remotely similliar; just like EQ and UO aren't anything like the same game.
The only comparison you can make between WoW and WAR is that they use the same basic EQ combat mechanics. Outside of that they are nothing alike.
Quit with the WAR borrowed from WoW BS. No Mythic did not; nor would they have to.
WoW uses elements from DAoC and if you're unaware Mythic made DAoC. Mythic is barrowing from themself, not WoW. Alterac Valley was an attempt by blizzard to create a PvP zone that reflected the battlegrounds of DAoC.
For the love of god, Warcraft was blizzards adaptation of the Warhammer tabletop game. Blizzard has never made a TRUELLY original game. The RTS games are all drawn from previous games; even diablo has elements of games that came before. I do not know why so many people insist on giving Blizzard credit for inovating when they only inovation they ever made was to make previous inovations accesable to more people. Hell, they even take inspiration from modern pop culture.
If you prefer PvE then play WoW, VG, EQ, EQ2, CoX, etc.
If you prefer PvP/ RvR then I say play WAR.
Quit trying to draw comparisons between the two games, they aren't the same.
It really only boils down to one point:
The OP prefers PvE, and a more open and immersive world. They want a sandbox.
Just another useless WoW is better then WAR post.
Brilliant thread.
I'm not upset. Only a bit irritated over this thread.
It's quite a di** move to slap threads like this onto the board to be honest. "This game made me realize what a brilliant game WoW is" (for short)
That makes it just sound like "This game is so sub-par, and it looks like cra* compared to WoW.
I think anyone with at least a little trace of sence in their mind understand that WoW is so polished. But IMO it's just a very very very very polished ROCK instead of WAR which I think is a uncut diamond. That is my compareance.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I'm not reading ANYTHING on this topic.
All I came in the topic to say is topics like these are SO DUMB. Wow is NOT a brilliant game. It's only brilliant if your gear is up to date with everyone elses. Otherwise, you suck. Which getting that gear can take months ESPECIALLY if you aren't in a great raiding guild. Then, you have to deal with drama every night from people that are raiding with you. You get on ventrilo and talk with everyone and raid with them. Deaths here and there followed by yelling at the priest.......World Of Warcraft is for carebears. Let's go grind some more and go get better gear so we can look cool because wow takes no skill. If you got the best gear you'll win regardless.
Warhammer it's about leveling. Something you can do by pvping only, OMGZORS. You can buy renown gear etc... and you'll be pretty equal with the guys around your level. You fight based on ur skill and if you lose, it's because you need to do something better or worse. Either that or there's no way to beat the other class you lost to 1 on 1. Warhammer is fun because it takes skill and it's all about PVP!
Warhammer and Wow shouldn't be compared anymore. 1 is way too gear based and the other is all about pvp action. It really depends on which kind of gameplay you like. If you like looking pretty and having the best gear, go play world of warcraft. If you like pvp action and having clans that want to fight 24/7, go warhammer. I'm a lineage 2 player going on 3 years now. I love pvp on lineage 2. I loved wow open beta because of the world pvp. So, you can understand why I love Warhammer. It grew on me.
Oh and one last thing. Warhammer made me resubscribe to wow. When I did last week, I logged off of wow 10 minutes later. I've done everything there is to do on wow for the most part. It's all repeating bullshit. I got bored after 10 minutes and logged off. Wow is boring to me.
/High five.
Now that's the kind of truth you'r never allowed to speak in this forum.
Put on a flame suit cus I feel the "anti-fans" are coming this way!
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I'm not upset. Only a bit irritated over this thread.
It's quite a di** move to slap threads like this onto the board to be honest. "This game made me realize what a brilliant game WoW is" (for short)
That makes it just sound like "This game is so sub-par, and it looks like cra* compared to WoW.
I think anyone with at least a little trace of sence in their mind understand that WoW is so polished. But IMO it's just a very very very very polished ROCK instead of WAR which I think is a uncut diamond. That is my compareance.
I have to agree.
No matter how intelligently mature you write it, a thread like this is nothing more the a WoW is better then WAR post.
I just don't understand how it's appropriate to WAR forum as the bulk of the thead pertains to WoW.
I have an idea. Why don't these threads get posted in the WoW forum were they would be more suited, and in it's rightful place. I'm just getting a little sick of coming here and reading threads about WoW. I can go to the WoW forum and do that.
Edit: I can't say this enough.
If you want a PvE game then go play WoW.
If you want a PvP/ RvR game then come play WAR.
And I'll add that if you tried WAR thinking it was going to be another WoW game then shame on you. If you can write you can read and you should have read what the game was about first. Stop trying to force the opinion that one is better then the other because YOU thought they were the same game. They aren't the same and one isn't any better then the other. They appeal to completely dif. playstyles. Figure that out and move on already.
I love you, man! Felt the same about WoW when TBC came out. After five minutes of installing the expansion, I realized I didn't want to play on a gear based hamster wheel called WoW any more. That was two years ago. Haven't looked back since.
Yes much like EQ has died off....
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
HMM So hows that counterstrike and L2 doing for ya?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
Yes much like EQ has died off....
I get what elitemarine is saying and I agree. Wow is too gear based and it's repeating bullshit. Grind grind grind, let's go get a piece of t6, grind grind grind, instance instance instance, pvp....REPEAT!
All you do on World Of Warcraft is instance because they force you to. If you want to be decent you pretty much have to...all they are doing with the patch is releasing new and better gear for the game as well as a new class. I remember working hard for my t1 and t2 gear on wow....and what happened to it? Green gear was better when TBC came out, LOL. Ye I know, it's a big LOL. It's sad. Maybe the new green gear that everyone gets will be better then t6, and maybe new sets will be released that are WAY better then that new green gear and WAYYY better then t6....because that's all world of warcraft is about. What you may ask? GEAR. So, for those wow fanbois. Go play your world of warcraft and go get your pretty little gear. Stay off of warhammer. This is for real pvp players.
On WoW, The new class just gives players more to do until the next expansion comes out that makes this new gear useless. That's what expansions are for. New levels to continue grinding, new way better gear, new classes, and a new land to explore. Sounds great but when you walk into every expansion you get to realizing it's the same repeating bullshit with a new look and feel. If the game didn't repeat so much I would probably enjoy it again. But, since it's all about instancing I won't even step foot onto world of warcraft again. I tried that last week. Didn't work out so well after 10 mins, lol.
HMM So hows that counterstrike and L2 doing for ya?
I am never on xfire while playing Warhammer. Your point? lol if you're trying to state that you don't see warhammer on there, here's the reason. I try to keep nothing open while playing Warhammer because I like to play it in high quality without any lag. Xfire takes up too much memory.
I'll keep it open from now on though. I knew someone would say something about my xfire, lol. Which, says nothing. Other then hey, you don't keep xfire open while playing Warhammer, lol.
I think the MMORPG genre has one major problem, and then a lot of glaring smaller ones, as well.
Primary examples of the "issue," in my opinion:
MMORPGs are NOT mmoRPGs anymore.
WAR = MMOPVPG
WoW = ALMOST MMORPG
Ultima Online = MMORPG
Ryzom = MMORPG
Vanguard = ALMOST MMORPG
Second Life = MMOG (but I really think of this one as more just virtual porn chat, with a game structure made for coding experts, actually....the real game is coding and designing for the OTHER people who willingly pay for the glorified porn chat. It's really a coding, programmers game.)
Guild Wars = ALMOST MMOPVPG
Everquest 2 = very CLOSE to an MMORPG
Everquest = a less brutal MMORPG
WURM Online = MMORPG
Rubies of Eventide = MMORPG
Darkfall = (if it ever is released) HARSH version of MMORPG
The trend I'm seeing, is that the RPG "sandbox" is missing in the games that aren't REAAAALLY rpgs. They may be close, they may have rpg ELEMENTS, but yet, they're not really mmoRPGs, in my opinion.
Also....I think a lot of people that THINK they like "mmoRPGs" probably don't really. RPG style games, initially, were not meant to be raced through to end level. Some of the games above that are listed as mmoRPGs also HAVE PvP in them, BUT...it is not the predominant FOCUS of the game. It is an aspect of "living" in a world where unpredictable things can happen at unforeseen times, it is not the primary FOCUS of the game. A game FOCUSED on PvP, is not an mmoRPG. In my opinion, a game that is focused on PvP is an MMOPVPG. Sure, it may have a fantasy setting....but does that make it an mmoRPG? I don't think so.
I could go on and on. I think most of the time we're comparing MMORPGS, we're not comparing mmoRPGs. The genre has become a muddy mess of just ANY game that is an MMO with ANY small amount of rpg ASPECTS in it, being labeled as "mmoRPG," and THIS.....is very misleading.
Just my thoughts and opinions, nothing more.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I agree. But I guess you can say you're role playing when you MAKE A PLAYER and play him. You're creating that characters "life" by choosing his/her path in the game. By those means, we call them mmorpgs. I guess that's why they are considered all mmorpgs. But I agree and disagree. Maybe I've become a mmopvpg gamer myself. I've gone out of the Asheron's Call stage and I'm all about pvp with some questing and killing of monsters and bosses here and there. But more so want pvp more then anything. Maybe that's what alot of the mmorpg population is looking for nowadays. The need to battle other live players. We are growing up and the younger population are devils that want nothing more then to pvp as well. Therfore, the sandbox games are eventually going to be tuned out to a degree. The last part here doesn't really make sense. All I'm saying is atleast I myself have gone out of the rpg stage myself and I'm more so about pvping nowadays. But all in all remember, we are still role playing by creating a character on any game. Because it's all fantasy. =/
i have to agree, war is a nice pvp game, but i dont feel i play a mmorpg
best mmorpg feeling i had was in SWg pre cu and EQ2
I find WoW's brilliance to be rooted in the MMO market as well as the genre itself.
In order for an MMO to be successful now, that MMO needs to be like WoW. This obviously was Mythic's take on making a game that a lot of people will subscribe to, and this also seems to be the case for a number of already released and soon-to-be released MMO's.
To garner the subscription numbers these MMO's need to find a way to be as good as or better than WoW which generally results in a small lapse in WoW numbers followed by a surging return when said game reaches failure.
WoW is brilliant because Blizzard is brilliant and there's no denying that. Sadly the entire genre suffers in originality due to it's unprecedented success.
FFXI: Gauhar - Odin
see i just don't agree with this at all.
Sorry...I truely believe you are wrong on this and I think mmorpg makers will agree, since they market the games as mmorpgs, and not mmopvps or mmosexs or whatever. Seriously...roleplaying is a very general word and you are trying to make it very specific but you can't because in affect you wuold be redefining the language. All those listed above in your post are all mmorpgs. They maybe me mmopvp mmorpgs, but the truth of hte matter is that htey are all mmorpgs...
OP really needs to look up what an mmorpg is cause well hes way way off in his opinion.