Unfortunately I've had to turn off light mapping and and specular lighting, which are causing frame rate drops at the moment for almost everyone. I believe that will be fixed soon, though.
Also, I only have my AA and AF set to x4, since my computer is in the shop and I took the screen shot on my house mate's less powerful gaming PC.
Even without X16 and lighting settings, WAR still looks fantastic in my opinion.
But then so does Vaporfall. I'm not sure I'd call either one "better" than the other judging by the screenshots.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
As a matter of preference I would say DF has a cooler more gritty realistic style, as a matter of technology I would as that they are about equal in terms of graphics, with a slight edge to DF as it has a greater view distance and more complex terrain then WoWhammer.
EDIT. After looking at some more pics side by side, I would say DF actuly looks considerably better then WAR.
Is that Darkfall concept art, fmv video screenshots, or actual in-game screenshots from print-screen?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Is that Darkfall concept art, fmv video screenshots, or actual in-game screenshots from print-screen?
It's according to the Devs actual screenshots. They aren't done on a special screenshot setting. They have even gone as far to say when we do get to play it will look better than the video and screenshots because they haven't been doing this on a special or even on high settings.
Maybe because I like to talk about different games. Just because I have no interest in came don't mean I can't voice my opinion. Truth is you can argue that DF has cartoonish graphics, its just a differenty style of cartoon animation.
Sorry but DF does not have a cartoonish style, at all.
Its all matter of opinion. www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4 . The guy wtih the huge helm and big ass arms and everything else looks cartoonish to me. There is CG cartoons now days not just the old style of cartoon animation. You can pretty much arguee that pretty much any game has a cartoonish look.
And they are both Siege Battle games. So they should be close in terms of graphics. Darkfall developer team has been able to code a more effective code for the game allowing better graphics. Their artists are also more dedicated than those of Warhammers I believe.
And you know that....how? The second part I mean, about the more efficient code and the more dedicated artists?
I mean, nice of you to say you believe that, but I'd love to know how you come to that conclusion. See...I know for a fact WAR's graphics work in big PVP fights without causing lag/sloppy performance (for me anyway). I've yet to see that happen for DF.
He's referring to an interview with a developer in which they stated they had written a new code specifically for Darkfall and then built the game upon it. It slated to be more efficient and allow them to actually do what they are proposing (not gonna put a link in as i'm tired and not in the mood to search for the interview again, but it does exist). Fair enough the new coding process isn't proved to us potential players yet but it's more than other games developers do so it's a step in the right direction as far as i'm concerned.
PS: excuse if this has been said before as i'm tired and didn't have time to read whole thread as of yet, but i shall tomorrow and edit this post if needed.
Maybe because I like to talk about different games. Just because I have no interest in came don't mean I can't voice my opinion. Truth is you can argue that DF has cartoonish graphics, its just a differenty style of cartoon animation.
Sorry but DF does not have a cartoonish style, at all.
Its all matter of opinion. www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4 . The guy wtih the huge helm and big ass arms and everything else looks cartoonish to me. There is CG cartoons now days not just the old style of cartoon animation. You can pretty much arguee that pretty much any game has a cartoonish look.
That character, judging by his height compared to the mounts beside him, would be a dwarf, they are short and stumpy and look like squashed humans in the first place no matter what you play. but thats beside the point, in my eyes Darkfalls graphics are not the main concern, Content and gameplay is, if they can deliver half of what they promise in the games features then it'll be a hit.
I think WAR is cooler. Since it's not trying to be photorealistic (which always looks strange IMO)
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology. Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system. I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Jvac actualy did a good job describing this so I am going to quote him.
"the traditional limitation on AI -- why it's so bad in MMORPGs -- is that most MMOs run on servers that operate as essentially single computers. Even EVE, which runs on a 100+ PC node cluster, is essentially just a collection of single PCs hooked up to each other, with each PC in the cluster serving 1 or more fixed-size zones, for instance Jita, the trade hub, runs on a single PC. If that PC goes down, Jita goes down.
Good NPC AI eats up a lot of CPU, so current MMOs are forced to limit the level of AI processing so that their zones don't crash.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Why don't other MMOs use this approach? Well they are starting to... But mostly because it takes a long time to develop the server infrastructure to do the dynamic redistribution properly, and it's not easy because of the requirement for high availability, high concurrency shared state management. It partially explains why Darkfall has taken so long to develop.
There is more info, from one of the Darkfall devs themselves here.
In case you're wondering how tf i know all this, I am a bioinformatian (ie: scientist programmer) and have worked with this kind of tech for a number of years to process large amounts of science data. "
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
WOW you guys got that interview ALL WRONG.
SERVER AI OPTIMIZATION has NOTHING to do with Frame Rate and Performace that PC will have when 100+ high poly models are on the screen.
I honestly like the Warhammer graphics better.
The armor doens't look like plastic wrapped flat bubbly armor.
here is my IRON BREAKER
the armor is Irridecent.. it reflects a rainbow of colors.. and has not only great textures but the shape of the armor is complex
This is my character. Unfortunately I've had to turn off light mapping and and specular lighting, which are causing frame rate drops at the moment for almost everyone. I believe that will be fixed soon, though. Also, I only have my AA and AF set to x4, since my computer is in the shop and I took the screen shot on my house mate's less powerful gaming PC. Even without X16 and lighting settings, WAR still looks fantastic in my opinion. But then so does Vaporfall. I'm not sure I'd call either one "better" than the other judging by the screenshots.
Well, WAR doesnt look so bad, but it is still a bit outdated.. What I seen from DF looks better but that is really hard to compare since I really havn't seen the performance of DF.
WARs animation is not so great and in my opinion it drags down the graphics a bit, I still havn't seen much of DF animations.
The entire issue I have with realism-driven graphics is that, a year or two down the line, its going to start to look dated. A, "cartoonish," style graphics game, while in the present may not look as appealing, will stand the test of time longer in terms of visual appeal. The issue comes when whether you prefer realism over a more cartoonish style, neither of them I mind, but I think over a longer period of time, I'll probably be more impressed with war then darkfall.
It's too bad you think in such simple terms. The problem is that you fail to realize that the graphics of Darkfall's primary function is to provide specific game mechanics - the ability to hide, to sneak, for powerful armor to *glint*, for colors to blend in thick brush, for darkness and shadows to degrade visibility, etc. Cartoonish graphics can never ahieve these things because color blending does not happen and bold cartoonish lines make for easy spotting - hence while you are stuck thinking in terms of "dated graphics," the smart ones will be thinking in terms of dated gameplay.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology. Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system. I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Jvac actualy did a good job describing this so I am going to quote him.
"the traditional limitation on AI -- why it's so bad in MMORPGs -- is that most MMOs run on servers that operate as essentially single computers. Even EVE, which runs on a 100+ PC node cluster, is essentially just a collection of single PCs hooked up to each other, with each PC in the cluster serving 1 or more fixed-size zones, for instance Jita, the trade hub, runs on a single PC. If that PC goes down, Jita goes down.
Good NPC AI eats up a lot of CPU, so current MMOs are forced to limit the level of AI processing so that their zones don't crash.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Why don't other MMOs use this approach? Well they are starting to... But mostly because it takes a long time to develop the server infrastructure to do the dynamic redistribution properly, and it's not easy because of the requirement for high availability, high concurrency shared state management. It partially explains why Darkfall has taken so long to develop.
There is more info, from one of the Darkfall devs themselves here.
In case you're wondering how tf i know all this, I am a bioinformatian (ie: scientist programmer) and have worked with this kind of tech for a number of years to process large amounts of science data. "
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
WOW you guys got that interview ALL WRONG.
SERVER AI OPTIMIZATION has NOTHING to do with Frame Rate and Performace that PC will have when 100+ high poly models are on the screen.
I honestly like the Warhammer graphics better.
The armor doens't look like plastic wrapped flat bubbly armor.
here is my IRON BREAKER
the armor is Irridecent.. it reflects a rainbow of colors.. and has not only great textures but the shape of the armor is complex
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Warhammer actually looks like it was made by professional modellers and texture artists. Darkfall looks like it was made by amateur modellers , animators and artists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LkBs_OM95w Warhammer has superior graphics to Darkfall. Warhammer actually looks like it was made by professional modellers and texture artists. Darkfall looks like it was made by amateur modellers , animators and artists...
well ur a perfect troll here...think for a while...and realise ur comparing a game that is out already... and wonder...get the pciture?
I think you're the one who needs to think for a while because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Darkfall graphics *ARE NOT* going to improve in any way shape or form from what they are now....
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
I think you're the one who needs to think for a while because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Darkfall graphics *ARE NOT* going to improve in any way shape or form from what they are now.... http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39158.html ^ Like I said.. Warhammer graphics are 100% superior. There's absolutely no comparison in quality of work. { Mod Edit }
Comparing the graphix of two different games is useless. They all have their own style (more or less) and it all comes down to personal taste of which you like the most.
The graphix in a game is good if it fits the specific settings and gives you a feeling for the game. It is very individual and even really gritty and poorly made games can be pleasing visually (my opinion)
What matters more though is how the animations are done and wheather they flow nicely. The movement of characters, spells and monsters. If things are moving scetchy and dont look believable it is a real turn off for me. A game that doesnt move smoothly in that aspect wont keep my attention for long.
From what I saw in the long gameplay trailer I am far from impressed.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
i think you're probably right. with 200 chars onscreen the client will be dropping shader effects, shadows, grass, other polys... who knows, depends on your computer and their LOD optimisations.
almost all game engines have LOD dropping, so WOW with 200 players will still look worse.
Comments
This is my character.
Unfortunately I've had to turn off light mapping and and specular lighting, which are causing frame rate drops at the moment for almost everyone. I believe that will be fixed soon, though.
Also, I only have my AA and AF set to x4, since my computer is in the shop and I took the screen shot on my house mate's less powerful gaming PC.
Even without X16 and lighting settings, WAR still looks fantastic in my opinion.
But then so does Vaporfall. I'm not sure I'd call either one "better" than the other judging by the screenshots.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
As a matter of preference I would say DF has a cooler more gritty realistic style, as a matter of technology I would as that they are about equal in terms of graphics, with a slight edge to DF as it has a greater view distance and more complex terrain then WoWhammer.
EDIT. After looking at some more pics side by side, I would say DF actuly looks considerably better then WAR.
I like Darkfall's art, but for some reason the Agon Ork looks cute. Wish they would look more savage.
Is that Darkfall concept art, fmv video screenshots, or actual in-game screenshots from print-screen?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
It's according to the Devs actual screenshots. They aren't done on a special screenshot setting. They have even gone as far to say when we do get to play it will look better than the video and screenshots because they haven't been doing this on a special or even on high settings.
In-game screenshots.
It will look better onscreen though. That is if you believe in what the Darkfall devs have informed us.
Here a link that holds every known Darkfall screenshot-
http://www.darkfallonline.eu/darkfall-bilder/main.php
Have a nice one
Sorry but DF does not have a cartoonish style, at all.
Its all matter of opinion. www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4 . The guy wtih the huge helm and big ass arms and everything else looks cartoonish to me. There is CG cartoons now days not just the old style of cartoon animation. You can pretty much arguee that pretty much any game has a cartoonish look.
And you know that....how? The second part I mean, about the more efficient code and the more dedicated artists?
I mean, nice of you to say you believe that, but I'd love to know how you come to that conclusion. See...I know for a fact WAR's graphics work in big PVP fights without causing lag/sloppy performance (for me anyway). I've yet to see that happen for DF.
He's referring to an interview with a developer in which they stated they had written a new code specifically for Darkfall and then built the game upon it. It slated to be more efficient and allow them to actually do what they are proposing (not gonna put a link in as i'm tired and not in the mood to search for the interview again, but it does exist). Fair enough the new coding process isn't proved to us potential players yet but it's more than other games developers do so it's a step in the right direction as far as i'm concerned.
PS: excuse if this has been said before as i'm tired and didn't have time to read whole thread as of yet, but i shall tomorrow and edit this post if needed.
Sorry but DF does not have a cartoonish style, at all.
Its all matter of opinion. www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4 . The guy wtih the huge helm and big ass arms and everything else looks cartoonish to me. There is CG cartoons now days not just the old style of cartoon animation. You can pretty much arguee that pretty much any game has a cartoonish look.
That character, judging by his height compared to the mounts beside him, would be a dwarf, they are short and stumpy and look like squashed humans in the first place no matter what you play. but thats beside the point, in my eyes Darkfalls graphics are not the main concern, Content and gameplay is, if they can deliver half of what they promise in the games features then it'll be a hit.
I think WAR is cooler. Since it's not trying to be photorealistic (which always looks strange IMO)
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
its hard to tell from the screen shots, but i think war and DF's graphics are similar in that they are more art like.
they are diffrent in how they did the art.
ill take art like over photo realistic or cartoony anyday.
yeah DF graphics are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better looking than WARS to me.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2345585#2345585
Jvac actualy did a good job describing this so I am going to quote him.
"the traditional limitation on AI -- why it's so bad in MMORPGs -- is that most MMOs run on servers that operate as essentially single computers. Even EVE, which runs on a 100+ PC node cluster, is essentially just a collection of single PCs hooked up to each other, with each PC in the cluster serving 1 or more fixed-size zones, for instance Jita, the trade hub, runs on a single PC. If that PC goes down, Jita goes down.
Good NPC AI eats up a lot of CPU, so current MMOs are forced to limit the level of AI processing so that their zones don't crash.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Why don't other MMOs use this approach? Well they are starting to... But mostly because it takes a long time to develop the server infrastructure to do the dynamic redistribution properly, and it's not easy because of the requirement for high availability, high concurrency shared state management. It partially explains why Darkfall has taken so long to develop.
There is more info, from one of the Darkfall devs themselves here.
In case you're wondering how tf i know all this, I am a bioinformatian (ie: scientist programmer) and have worked with this kind of tech for a number of years to process large amounts of science data. "
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
WOW you guys got that interview ALL WRONG.
SERVER AI OPTIMIZATION has NOTHING to do with Frame Rate and Performace that PC will have when 100+ high poly models are on the screen.
I honestly like the Warhammer graphics better.
The armor doens't look like plastic wrapped flat bubbly armor.
here is my IRON BREAKER
the armor is Irridecent.. it reflects a rainbow of colors.. and has not only great textures but the shape of the armor is complex
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16218029GNBh2MWd
Well, WAR doesnt look so bad, but it is still a bit outdated.. What I seen from DF looks better but that is really hard to compare since I really havn't seen the performance of DF.
WARs animation is not so great and in my opinion it drags down the graphics a bit, I still havn't seen much of DF animations.
It's too bad you think in such simple terms. The problem is that you fail to realize that the graphics of Darkfall's primary function is to provide specific game mechanics - the ability to hide, to sneak, for powerful armor to *glint*, for colors to blend in thick brush, for darkness and shadows to degrade visibility, etc. Cartoonish graphics can never ahieve these things because color blending does not happen and bold cartoonish lines make for easy spotting - hence while you are stuck thinking in terms of "dated graphics," the smart ones will be thinking in terms of dated gameplay.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2345585#2345585
Jvac actualy did a good job describing this so I am going to quote him.
"the traditional limitation on AI -- why it's so bad in MMORPGs -- is that most MMOs run on servers that operate as essentially single computers. Even EVE, which runs on a 100+ PC node cluster, is essentially just a collection of single PCs hooked up to each other, with each PC in the cluster serving 1 or more fixed-size zones, for instance Jita, the trade hub, runs on a single PC. If that PC goes down, Jita goes down.
Good NPC AI eats up a lot of CPU, so current MMOs are forced to limit the level of AI processing so that their zones don't crash.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Why don't other MMOs use this approach? Well they are starting to... But mostly because it takes a long time to develop the server infrastructure to do the dynamic redistribution properly, and it's not easy because of the requirement for high availability, high concurrency shared state management. It partially explains why Darkfall has taken so long to develop.
There is more info, from one of the Darkfall devs themselves here.
In case you're wondering how tf i know all this, I am a bioinformatian (ie: scientist programmer) and have worked with this kind of tech for a number of years to process large amounts of science data. "
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
WOW you guys got that interview ALL WRONG.
SERVER AI OPTIMIZATION has NOTHING to do with Frame Rate and Performace that PC will have when 100+ high poly models are on the screen.
I honestly like the Warhammer graphics better.
The armor doens't look like plastic wrapped flat bubbly armor.
here is my IRON BREAKER
the armor is Irridecent.. it reflects a rainbow of colors.. and has not only great textures but the shape of the armor is complex
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16218029GNBh2MWd
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LkBs_OM95w
Warhammer has superior graphics to Darkfall.
Warhammer actually looks like it was made by professional modellers and texture artists. Darkfall looks like it was made by amateur modellers , animators and artists...
well ur a perfect troll here...think for a while...and realise ur comparing a game that is out already... and wonder...get the pciture?
I think you're the one who needs to think for a while because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Darkfall graphics *ARE NOT* going to improve in any way shape or form from what they are now....
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39158.html
^ Like I said.. Warhammer graphics are 100% superior. There's absolutely no comparison in quality of work.
{ Mod Edit }
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
The fact that this video
http://static.filefront.com/ffv6/video/fullpage.php?v=759374&autorun=true beats the Warhammer vid even though the DarkFall Vid was recorded on low/meduim settings is just amazing. And thats even including the quality lost durring compression lol.
DarkFall http://static.filefront.com/ffv6/video/fullpage.php?v=759374&autorun=true
Warhammer http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39158.html
{ Mod Edit }
Comparing the graphix of two different games is useless. They all have their own style (more or less) and it all comes down to personal taste of which you like the most.
The graphix in a game is good if it fits the specific settings and gives you a feeling for the game. It is very individual and even really gritty and poorly made games can be pleasing visually (my opinion)
What matters more though is how the animations are done and wheather they flow nicely. The movement of characters, spells and monsters. If things are moving scetchy and dont look believable it is a real turn off for me. A game that doesnt move smoothly in that aspect wont keep my attention for long.
From what I saw in the long gameplay trailer I am far from impressed.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
Whats your take on that?
i think you're probably right. with 200 chars onscreen the client will be dropping shader effects, shadows, grass, other polys... who knows, depends on your computer and their LOD optimisations.
almost all game engines have LOD dropping, so WOW with 200 players will still look worse.