With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
Whats your take on that?
I am not sure what you want honestly. I hope you realise the Video is shot in low/meduim quality atleast this is what the Devs have said. To answer your question, will they be as good as the screen shots when in a large scale battle? I highly doubt it. Age of Conan can't support even meduim scale battles due mainly to the extremely high polygon count (Atleast this is what I believe) Will the large scale battles look as good if not better than the game play footage? More than likely considering the vid lost some quality due to compression and the fact the settings were scaled down.
What gets me is you guys bounce back and forth. The graphics are crap but when the screen shots are brought up and the video you guys change your tune to well it will lag to much to play then when the server tech and the auto scaling and the limited polygon count is brought up it goes back to well the graphics will be crap durring large scale battles totaly ignoring that the video is actuall in game footage shot on low/meduim settings. It has already shown what the large scale battles will look like and to me they graphics were pretty damn good.
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
So how about deciding on wether the graphics suck in your opinion or if there to good to have large scale battles and sticking with that position. Your better off sticking to the graphics suck side of things because that is a matter of opinion and can't be proved other wise. You either like it or don't. With the graphics are to good for large scale battles there's methods they have stated are there to prevent or eliminate them so we have to wait till launch to say they can't do it.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
If you look past the shiny armor and take a close look at some of the other textures; like the hands, legs and face as well as the lava and the heat shimmer effects, DF looks pretty low res. WAR's graphics aren't great either, but they look more professional. It seems to me in that image they are really wanting you to be amazed by the lighting effects on the armor to the point that you don't notice the rest. Also even the armor is very square and doesn't mesh together just right, suggesting a low polygon count. When it's animated I think you'll have a lot of clipping issues. I also think that to alleviate GPU lag you won't see many different armor types or customization options, thus low long term appeal. Don't get your hopes up too far on this one. I hope it's great, but I am just not seeing it.
It's not whether one looks better than the other, it's about art style.
One has it's own art style while the other has it's own. Personally I think Mythic did a great job of making the in game models look like the table top models.
If you look past the shiny armor and take a close look at some of the other textures; like the hands, legs and face as well as the lava and the heat shimmer effects, DF looks pretty low res. WAR's graphics aren't great either, but they look more professional. It seems to me in that image they are really wanting you to be amazed by the lighting effects on the armor to the point that you don't notice the rest. Also even the armor is very square and doesn't mesh together just right, suggesting a low polygon count. When it's animated I think you'll have a lot of clipping issues. I also think that to alleviate GPU lag you won't see many different armor types or customization options, thus low long term appeal. Don't get your hopes up too far on this one. I hope it's great, but I am just not seeing it.
On careful examination, the faces look about the same quality to me. Also, on the armor. What you saw was multiple pieces of armor of the same type. Thus the mesh difficulties. Don't believe me, look here. Some of the equipment slots are not labeled and some are labeled improperly, but that is your equip screen.
For varyation, watch the video or browse the gallery. One style.Two styles.Three styles.Now tell me that there will not be much varyiation in armor styles.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
Whats your take on that?
I am not sure what you want honestly. I hope you realise the Video is shot in low/meduim quality atleast this is what the Devs have said. To answer your question, will they be as good as the screen shots when in a large scale battle? I highly doubt it. Age of Conan can't support even meduim scale battles due mainly to the extremely high polygon count (Atleast this is what I believe) Will the large scale battles look as good if not better than the game play footage? More than likely considering the vid lost some quality due to compression and the fact the settings were scaled down.
What gets me is you guys bounce back and forth. The graphics are crap but when the screen shots are brought up and the video you guys change your tune to well it will lag to much to play then when the server tech and the auto scaling and the limited polygon count is brought up it goes back to well the graphics will be crap durring large scale battles totaly ignoring that the video is actuall in game footage shot on low/meduim settings. It has already shown what the large scale battles will look like and to me they graphics were pretty damn good.
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
So how about deciding on wether the graphics suck in your opinion or if there to good to have large scale battles and sticking with that position. Your better off sticking to the graphics suck side of things because that is a matter of opinion and can't be proved other wise. You either like it or don't. With the graphics are to good for large scale battles there's methods they have stated are there to prevent or eliminate them so we have to wait till launch to say they can't do it.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
To be honest, I don't care for the character models at all. The lighting on the armor, and poly count is very high. but the art style is poor in my opinion. Orcs look like thier mouths are stuck open , skin is bland.. forearms and legs are too wide. Its not stylized in a good way at all. Sure the lighting, textures, sky is all realistically done. But you can't expect most machines to run all that on full res. I just honestly thing the games animations, and textures to be very amaturish. I used to follow Darkfall but it hasn't changed in appearance in years. The game doens't look as good as AOC, or Vanguard.
The game success yhas more to do with what server side lag is like and client lag. All that can break the game but the game has to be fun. Its coming into the market after wrath and war, good luck is all i can tell you friend. from the production polish I have seen on this game.. it will not get many people at all. Huge world + small pop = ghost town. That is my prediction on this game.. I seen MANY go the same path
The bad thing is.. the hype on this game is also terrible. a 6.8??? really? For single player games its great for only a few people to love it and say "screw the world I know whats good"
but for an MMO to succeed and be profitable you have to have a player base. This game is showing no signs of being successfull.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
Well yea.. i am glad you can see what I was saying and agree with me.
He was talking about Client side LAG due to TOO MANY POLYS, models and textures being on the screen at once.
your response to that was???
Bringing up how they optimized darkfall to handle server side lag ok?
You threw alot of smoke and mirrors.
Your retorted his post by stating that the client is better in a different way?
So yea you really didn't answer my question, and I would still like to know where this Mystical LINK is that will explain how they can get 200+ people on the screen with smooth performance.
After reading every reply in this thread. I think this is probably single handedly one of the most, pointless threads ever. Arguing over something as subjective as graphics. What's next? Which one controls better? I guess I shouldn't complain. There were so many absurdely funny post in this thread. Besides we all know real life has the best graphics.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
from what i've seen darkfall looks a little better. won't know until i get the game. it really is not that big of an issue to me if the graphics arent bleeding edge. i dont feel like sacrificing a virgin everytime i try to log in
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
Well yea.. i am glad you can see what I was saying and agree with me.
He was talking about Client side LAG due to TOO MANY POLYS, models and textures being on the screen at once.
your response to that was???
Bringing up how they optimized darkfall to handle server side lag ok?
You threw alot of smoke and mirrors.
Your retorted his post by stating that the client is better in a different way?
So yea you really didn't answer my question, and I would still like to know where this Mystical LINK is that will explain how they can get 200+ people on the screen with smooth performance.
Jesus I swear you just hit reply and don't read...... I am going to copy and paste from my other post that you replied to and aparently didn't bother to read.......
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
As wether this will work or not we have to wait and see..... If you want a more detailed explanation actually go read the posts you replied to. Copied and pasted and changed the color to yellow so hopefuly you can't miss them this time..... hopefully..... if you want more than that your out of luck till launch cause it may work out it may not but this is how they have planned on dealing with it.
Comments
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
Whats your take on that?
I am not sure what you want honestly. I hope you realise the Video is shot in low/meduim quality atleast this is what the Devs have said. To answer your question, will they be as good as the screen shots when in a large scale battle? I highly doubt it. Age of Conan can't support even meduim scale battles due mainly to the extremely high polygon count (Atleast this is what I believe) Will the large scale battles look as good if not better than the game play footage? More than likely considering the vid lost some quality due to compression and the fact the settings were scaled down.
What gets me is you guys bounce back and forth. The graphics are crap but when the screen shots are brought up and the video you guys change your tune to well it will lag to much to play then when the server tech and the auto scaling and the limited polygon count is brought up it goes back to well the graphics will be crap durring large scale battles totaly ignoring that the video is actuall in game footage shot on low/meduim settings. It has already shown what the large scale battles will look like and to me they graphics were pretty damn good.
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
So how about deciding on wether the graphics suck in your opinion or if there to good to have large scale battles and sticking with that position. Your better off sticking to the graphics suck side of things because that is a matter of opinion and can't be proved other wise. You either like it or don't. With the graphics are to good for large scale battles there's methods they have stated are there to prevent or eliminate them so we have to wait till launch to say they can't do it.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
If you look past the shiny armor and take a close look at some of the other textures; like the hands, legs and face as well as the lava and the heat shimmer effects, DF looks pretty low res. WAR's graphics aren't great either, but they look more professional. It seems to me in that image they are really wanting you to be amazed by the lighting effects on the armor to the point that you don't notice the rest. Also even the armor is very square and doesn't mesh together just right, suggesting a low polygon count. When it's animated I think you'll have a lot of clipping issues. I also think that to alleviate GPU lag you won't see many different armor types or customization options, thus low long term appeal. Don't get your hopes up too far on this one. I hope it's great, but I am just not seeing it.
It's not whether one looks better than the other, it's about art style.
One has it's own art style while the other has it's own. Personally I think Mythic did a great job of making the in game models look like the table top models.
Table Top Black Orc
WAR Black Orc
On careful examination, the faces look about the same quality to me. Also, on the armor. What you saw was multiple pieces of armor of the same type. Thus the mesh difficulties. Don't believe me, look here. Some of the equipment slots are not labeled and some are labeled improperly, but that is your equip screen.
For varyation, watch the video or browse the gallery. One style. Two styles. Three styles. Now tell me that there will not be much varyiation in armor styles.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs.
Actually, no, you're wrong. That interview had ver little to do wih AI. It's about being able to distribute the server load over multiple PCs in a cluster, in order to be able to handle densely-packed high-action zones, such as mass battles.
oh and Warhammer's graphics are pretty ordinary.
"With this infrastructure, Darkfall doesn't have the same AI limitations - they are only limited by the total processing power of the whole server cluster, which can be easily expanded by adding more PCs."
Try not to selectivly READ what you want. it had EVERYTHING to do with AI.
And again.. how does SERVER LOAD.. going to make your machine hand 100+ models with high polygon count????
Well?
can anyone answer that?
Anyone at all?
Beuler?
It would probably be best if you stopped with the Selective reading. I posted this even though it was discussing the AI because it explained the type of server DarkFall will use and explains how they will limit or eliminate server side lag. So read next time.
Like EVE, Darkfall is also cluster-based, except Darkfall has been built on top of much more advanced server tech, such that world zones can be dynamically resized and redistributed to other PCs in the server cluster. So, if a ton of players pack into a small area in Darkfall and the server that is currently serving that zone reaches too high of a load that it begins to lag, the server software redistributes the zones that PC is currently handling to redistribute the load to other PCs in the cluster (ie: ones that have only a few people in them). This is known in the industry as dynamic load balancing.
Secondly if your going to post critism thats fine but it would help if you had knowledge on the subject. DarkFall was developed with Large Scale battles in mind not as an after thought as seems to be the standard now days. They developed it with a strict polygon count in mind. Age of Conan is game with a polygon count gone wild and shows why Large Scale battles should never been an after thought when developing a MMORPG that wants to have Large Scale battles.
Thirdly if you had looked up info on DarkFall you would have likely come across the dev quotes about the auto adjustment of the settings. The settings will automacticaly scale for you to reduce PC side lag. Am I saying this will eliminate any lag? No because honestly I have no idea until I have played it for myself. The question was how do they plan on dealing with it, the above and my previous post and the post I quoted by Javac answer that question.
What is funny here is that this article was brought up because some broken english post about how "Darkfall is written with good code to help let 100s players on screen at one time with no problem"
The post talks about SERVER side optimization.. and then you then defend it and back track about Server scaling. and How the client will degrade yoru graphics quality to make sure you can see 100s of people on screen at once.
So in the end..
The graphics in Darkfall could be worse than WoW with 200 peopel on screen..? since I know by being a gamer that on mid range PCs .. you are NOT goign to get 200 characters on screen fighting with spell effects reflective armor and the poly count shown in that Screen shot.
Whats your take on that?
I am not sure what you want honestly. I hope you realise the Video is shot in low/meduim quality atleast this is what the Devs have said. To answer your question, will they be as good as the screen shots when in a large scale battle? I highly doubt it. Age of Conan can't support even meduim scale battles due mainly to the extremely high polygon count (Atleast this is what I believe) Will the large scale battles look as good if not better than the game play footage? More than likely considering the vid lost some quality due to compression and the fact the settings were scaled down.
What gets me is you guys bounce back and forth. The graphics are crap but when the screen shots are brought up and the video you guys change your tune to well it will lag to much to play then when the server tech and the auto scaling and the limited polygon count is brought up it goes back to well the graphics will be crap durring large scale battles totaly ignoring that the video is actuall in game footage shot on low/meduim settings. It has already shown what the large scale battles will look like and to me they graphics were pretty damn good.
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
So how about deciding on wether the graphics suck in your opinion or if there to good to have large scale battles and sticking with that position. Your better off sticking to the graphics suck side of things because that is a matter of opinion and can't be proved other wise. You either like it or don't. With the graphics are to good for large scale battles there's methods they have stated are there to prevent or eliminate them so we have to wait till launch to say they can't do it.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
To be honest, I don't care for the character models at all. The lighting on the armor, and poly count is very high. but the art style is poor in my opinion. Orcs look like thier mouths are stuck open , skin is bland.. forearms and legs are too wide. Its not stylized in a good way at all. Sure the lighting, textures, sky is all realistically done. But you can't expect most machines to run all that on full res. I just honestly thing the games animations, and textures to be very amaturish. I used to follow Darkfall but it hasn't changed in appearance in years. The game doens't look as good as AOC, or Vanguard.
The game success yhas more to do with what server side lag is like and client lag. All that can break the game but the game has to be fun. Its coming into the market after wrath and war, good luck is all i can tell you friend. from the production polish I have seen on this game.. it will not get many people at all. Huge world + small pop = ghost town. That is my prediction on this game.. I seen MANY go the same path
WISH : http://www.mmoginfo.com/pc/Wish/index.html
DARK AND LIGHT: www.darkandlight.com/
Vanguard, Irth, Age of Conan
All remind me of where this is going.
The bad thing is.. the hype on this game is also terrible. a 6.8??? really? For single player games its great for only a few people to love it and say "screw the world I know whats good"
but for an MMO to succeed and be profitable you have to have a player base. This game is showing no signs of being successfull.
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
Well yea.. i am glad you can see what I was saying and agree with me.
He was talking about Client side LAG due to TOO MANY POLYS, models and textures being on the screen at once.
your response to that was???
Bringing up how they optimized darkfall to handle server side lag ok?
You threw alot of smoke and mirrors.
Your retorted his post by stating that the client is better in a different way?
So yea you really didn't answer my question, and I would still like to know where this Mystical LINK is that will explain how they can get 200+ people on the screen with smooth performance.
After reading every reply in this thread. I think this is probably single handedly one of the most, pointless threads ever. Arguing over something as subjective as graphics. What's next? Which one controls better? I guess I shouldn't complain. There were so many absurdely funny post in this thread. Besides we all know real life has the best graphics.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
from what i've seen darkfall looks a little better. won't know until i get the game. it really is not that big of an issue to me if the graphics arent bleeding edge. i dont feel like sacrificing a virgin everytime i try to log in
As far as why the post was made in the first place I made the post and I know why I posted it. I used a post from Javac in an entirely different thread because it was relevant for server side lag. Here is the post that I responded to.
Don't be nieve. You can't fit 10 gallons of water into a 10 ounce tube. You can't push millions of polys or 2048x2048 sheets into the video card without screen stutter or hitching. I don't care how good your code is, there are just limitations to what can be done in MMO's with current technology.
Don't use FPS games as an example because those are small closed levels, or limited to 30 poeple, not all of which are on the screen at the same time but all over the map (and usualy out of visual range). Plus the range of environment textures for the multitudes of flora/characters/objects/terrain will bog down a high end system.
I'm all for seeing a game that performs well in mass scale pvp but there is no magic bullet. People will turn down their settings to get a better framerate.
Then after quoting Javac I added
The thing is yes it is limited with standard technology. However Aventurine isn't using what most MMO's use it's actualy a bit innovative on its on. They also have the advantage that there using an engine that they madespecificaly for DarkFall. So they have a bit more than can do than alot of current MMO's for the simple fact there using better tech + an engine made specificaly for DarkFall. They havent been spending all this time in Development twidling there thumbs lol.
The point is if you have a gripe about the game I am fine. Come bearing facts though or if it is just your opinion state that it is and don't try and pass it off as fact. Sadly the things brought up could have been answerd if you and others did your research instead of comming in touting off like you did all this research and none of the things brought up in the opposite view are in the least bit credible when it's pretty clear you merely skimmed through or skipped anything presented.
So I guess I am saying is I hope I have asnwerd your questions and
Whats your take on that?
Well yea.. i am glad you can see what I was saying and agree with me.
He was talking about Client side LAG due to TOO MANY POLYS, models and textures being on the screen at once.
your response to that was???
Bringing up how they optimized darkfall to handle server side lag ok?
You threw alot of smoke and mirrors.
Your retorted his post by stating that the client is better in a different way?
So yea you really didn't answer my question, and I would still like to know where this Mystical LINK is that will explain how they can get 200+ people on the screen with smooth performance.
Jesus I swear you just hit reply and don't read...... I am going to copy and paste from my other post that you replied to and aparently didn't bother to read.......
So whats my take on that? Ok here it is
1) Graphics: The graphics are good in DarkFall from the screen shots and videos I have seen.
2) Server side lag: With Dynamic Server load balancing this should not be a problem we will have to wait and see on this.
3) PC side lag: Auto Scalling of your settings to reduce lag as well as a strict polygon count durring development should limit this a good bit, it may even stop it but we will have to wait till launch to see.
4) Graphics durring large scale battles: The video showed us what the graphics will look like durring large scale battles because it was footage from low/meduim settings. The video is on scaled down settings so I am not sure what your asking. As far as them being worse than WoW look at the In game footage vid that had scaled down graphics then compare it to WoW vids of 200 player battles and then you can compare, because the In Game Footage is scaled down.
As wether this will work or not we have to wait and see..... If you want a more detailed explanation actually go read the posts you replied to. Copied and pasted and changed the color to yellow so hopefuly you can't miss them this time..... hopefully..... if you want more than that your out of luck till launch cause it may work out it may not but this is how they have planned on dealing with it.