Given the number crunching nature of EVE, It is highly unlikely CCP has come down on the wrong side of this equation...Seriously
Which is pretty much the bottom line of what I am saying. And why I underlined "There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.".
Regardless if the original poster is wrong or not. But taken his word for it that he is right, the motivation for him to post it must be that he is(think he is) right. And if so there is no reason to believe that CCP also knows and sees what he see. If now there are so massive glaring flaws in it.
I see what your saying and kinda even agree. it's always fun to cheat the system, hell EVE's based on that to some degree. I guess I just see this a Game Time Card issue. I would be willing to bet most of the people this affects didn't even pay for the account too start with. I think this is the real issue CCP is trying to address. Not to mention the fact that a game built on such a shaky player base is a game in decline not growth.
Obviously the links to 3 different CCP staff members promoting this as a feature isn't enough for the guys claiming people were cheating or abusing something. Let's try looking at it like this.
Alts are basic the enjoyment of any mmorpg for most people. Eve is very, very different from most other mmorpgs, BUT, Eve is still an mmorpg, and exactly like other mmorpgs, Eve is full of players who use more than one character.
I dont mean more than one character as in a main, and then a one hour made hauler alt, I mean a fully functional alt.
Most players in most mmorpgs play more than one character. Sure there are some players who play only one, but they dont change the equation. Most players in mmorpgs, including Eve, play more than one character.
Other games charge you 15 dollars per month, and you can play a few characters.
CCP, blood sucking scammers they are, want us to pay a full subscription for each character.
What kind of a game expects you to pay a 30 dollars or 45 dollars or 60 dollars subscription fee each month in order to play more than one character? NONE, except for Eve. (and soon darkfall but atleast Darkfall is doing it for gameplay reasons and it is something their core community accepts)
Ghost training was NOT an exploit gaining people free advancement.
Ghost training lowered the cost in a game where the system is already rigged to cheat players by giving them only ONE training slot per account, rigged to charge them 2x, 3x, 4x MORE THAN ANY OTHER MMORPG for the same number of playable toons most people have in other games.
Another way Ive put it to people is this .
If you buy a car you expect it to have four wheels.
If, when you buy a car, they charge you extra for an all leather interior. Thats normal, thats industry standard.
If, when you buy a car, the first two wheels are standard, but the third and forth wheels are extra, then you are being scammed, you are being cheated, you are being screwed, because that is NOT industry standard practice.
Charging a full subscription fee each of more than one character in Eve has always been, and is even more so now, a total scam.
The only reason people tolerate it, and bury themselves under blankets of denial, is they love the game so much and really really want access to the unique charm of the game. That charm only goes so far though. CCP has in the past and is now lieing to, and cheating their customers. Too much is too much.
Obviously the links to 3 different CCP staff members promoting this as a feature isn't enough for the guys claiming people were cheating or abusing something. Let's try looking at it like this.
Alts are basic the enjoyment of any mmorpg for most people. Eve is very, very different from most other mmorpgs, BUT, Eve is still an mmorpg, and exactly like other mmorpgs, Eve is full of players who use more than one character. I don’t mean more than one character as in a main, and then a one hour made hauler alt, I mean a fully functional alt. Most players in most mmorpgs play more than one character. Sure there are some players who play only one, but they don’t change the equation. Most players in mmorpgs, including Eve, play more than one character. Other games charge you 15 dollars per month, and you can play a few characters. CCP, blood sucking scammers they are, want us to pay a full subscription for each character. What kind of a game expects you to pay a 30 dollars or 45 dollars or 60 dollars subscription fee each month in order to play more than one character? NONE, except for Eve. (and soon darkfall but atleast Darkfall is doing it for gameplay reasons and it is something their core community accepts) Ghost training was NOT an exploit gaining people ‘free’ advancement. Ghost training lowered the cost in a game where the system is already rigged to cheat players by giving them only ONE training slot per account, rigged to charge them 2x, 3x, 4x MORE THAN ANY OTHER MMORPG for the same number of playable toons most people have in other games.
Another way I’ve put it to people is this…. If you buy a car you expect it to have four wheels. If, when you buy a car, they charge you extra for an all leather interior. That’s normal, that’s industry standard. If, when you buy a car, the first two wheels are standard, but the third and forth wheels are extra, then you are being scammed, you are being cheated, you are being screwed, because that is NOT industry standard practice. Charging a full subscription fee each of more than one character in Eve has always been, and is even more so now, a total scam. The only reason people tolerate it, and bury themselves under blankets of denial, is they love the game so much and really really want access to the unique charm of the game. That charm only goes so far though. CCP has in the past and is now lieing to, and cheating their customers. Too much is too much.
Your arguement is flawed, for the simple reason that you DON'T have to pay extra to have more characters since you can have three characters per account. If you want more characters to train up at the same time then yes that's different.
But not different from any other MMO, you can't level/grind/whatever on more than one character per account at the same time in WOW/EQ/<insert any MMO> either. IF you want the full benefit of using 2 characters at the same time to gain xp or whatever you'll have to have more than one account.
If you're going to argue something at least keep it realistic and logical.
I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
There's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
well we fight and we lose (seams that we lose) but for us veterans there is a win part, we can laugh at n00bs when they will pay many days just to lvl up a skill and we can say " hahaha i got that skill for free " and this bug fix will degrease the number of n00bs that will have capitals so your n00b alliance wont do much vs a old alliance
if u look from this point of view is the best thing for veterans
I find it very sad that for a game that is considered "hard core" and with a "steep learning curve", so many supposedly "veterans" cry like a bunch of kids.
They give me the impression that the only reason they were good in the game or managed to achieve anything was because of taking advantage of that.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
Especially so since EVE is about the one MMO where age isn't everything, so any 'vet' would understand that part and not try to talk down on newer players. Having played a long time does not make you a vet, nor does it automatically make you smart and knowledgable on the game.
Some people are just unable to look/grow beyond the mental capacity of a 13 yearold old, regardless if they played for a long time, have an uberlong signature or spout the forums with their illogical ideas and tinfoil crap.
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
No one exploited the system. You cannot exploit a system that people openly discussed on the forums for years. Also, it was in the player guides
In the player guide it claimed this was a feature now they claim it was a bug
Lastly, people like me honestly were burned out on the game. Left the game. But naturally before we left, we set a long training skill. It's common sense. It was in the guide. But then the long skill popped and we were naturally tempted to return to tryout the new ship or whatever ability we gained
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
No one exploited the system. You cannot exploit a system that people openly discussed on the forums for years. Also, it was in the player guides
In the player guide it claimed this was a feature now they claim it was a bug
Lastly, people like me honestly were burned out on the game. Left the game. But naturally before we left, we set a long training skill. It's common sense. It was in the guide. But then the long skill popped and we were naturally tempted to return to tryout the new ship or whatever ability we gained
It was never an INTENDED feature of the game, it just happened to work that way. CCP was asked many times in dev chats (usually with relation to a skill queue question) whether they were going to stop it or not and there answer was NOT YET. There was never a promise that it would continue forever.
The problem is that players got used to it and it became more well known so in turn more people exploited the loophole until they couldn't ignore it anymore.
It's quite likely that the isk sellers started to abuse it en masse churning out cap-ship pilots to sell and CCP had no choice but to close the hole.
You got a free lunch for 5+ years with them not fixing this little bug but it's over. Deal with it or don't but this whinage is embarrassing.
But not different from any other MMO, you can't level/grind/whatever on more than one character per account at the same time in WOW/EQ/<insert any MMO> either. IF you want the full benefit of using 2 characters at the same time to gain xp or whatever you'll have to have more than one account. If you're going to argue something at least keep it realistic and logical.
Do you even play the game anymore. I'm just going to copy and paste a response I made in the other thread and hopefully you can connect the dots why an Eve character is even more grindy than an EQ1/Korean MMO character.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter Trader Industrialist Scientist Explorer Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
But not different from any other MMO, you can't level/grind/whatever on more than one character per account at the same time in WOW/EQ/<insert any MMO> either. IF you want the full benefit of using 2 characters at the same time to gain xp or whatever you'll have to have more than one account.
If you're going to argue something at least keep it realistic and logical.
Do you even play the game anymore. I'm just going to copy and paste a response I made in the other thread and hopefully you can connect the dots why an Eve character is even more grindy than an EQ1/Korean MMO character.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter
Trader
Industrialist
Scientist
Explorer
Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
playing since beta 5 thanks and I play only a single character. Have and alt that used to be my friends character but haven't had that account active for 6 months. My character can do a little of everything and it's taken me 5+ years to get him that way.
When you're listing the time it takes to max out a certain profession you're missing 1 key thing. There's no NEED to max out any one profession.
Also, specifically for the racial ship training, once you max out 1 race including all tech 2 ships it takes relatively little time to work your way up to be able to fly another races ships including tech 2 as all of the tech2 ship skills are non race specific so a couple of weeks can take you from tech 1 frigates to tech 2 battlecruiser tech1 frigate of any other race.
Honestly there's so much overlap in skills in this game to me it seems stupid to create a second character when you'll just end up training the same skills all over again. The only valid use I see for a second account in this game is if you fly cap ships and need a cyno character or you're so antisocial you have no friends ingame.
Older veteran players will most likely see this as a good thing, most newer players are going to hate it.
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
L.O.F.L.
n00b most of old 00 alliance have capital alts trained in all this years just pay and move capital alt on main account
n00bs will have to pay all the time for capital train do u ganna pay 60 days for a lvl ?
so, when you play an mmo... you play one, single toon and that's it? be it eve, cox, wow, whatever game... you play one, single character and that's it?
you ARE in the minority there. period.
i have an account i pay for and keep active nonstop. so from one person, there's a constant flow of income.
back when there were 90day GTCs, i'd rotate several other accounts. when the GTC would expire, i'd put a long skill training. otherwise, since this IS a game where you CAN be an actual spy (i know, crazy idea), but in order to be an EFFECTIVE spy, your infiltrating/spy character kinda needs to be progressing in their skills. you can't just take a 2m sp alt and never train them, and expect for your spy to be effective in the long term.
so, instead of several accounts, which would equal the money paid for 3-4 accounts; ccp will now get the money from my original main account and that's it. i don't want to quit the game; but, i will be quitting this aspect of the game.
again, ccp cancelled the ghost training once in the past; until they realized the uproar it caused.
so tell me, exactly how was i cheating ccp, and not supporting them FAR more, monetarily, than anyone saying "oh i have a single account"? i'm sad that only limited, in-the-box thinking is what should be catored to... too bad i'm not so limited that i can't see the obvious advantages in running multiple accounts on multiple computers.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Jesus, as if the the old players didn't have enough ahead of them already.
Getting tired of changes that should have been at release and not first fixed years after, when it'll simply break it down.
It's their own fault for creating such great "SIGH" moments that make people take a break from eve for a few months, they should be adressing how to solve that instead of this change!
Honestly there's so much overlap in skills in this game to me it seems stupid to create a second character when you'll just end up training the same skills all over again. The only valid use I see for a second account in this game is if you fly cap ships and need a cyno character or you're so antisocial you have no friends ingame.
Such ignorance. I'd like to see you make the money I make in game without having to sell time cards and be on the front lines at the same time. Save your condescending tone, you're wasting your breathe because you have, simply put, no idea what you're talking about. I do not have any cyno characters but have some expensive toys I worked damned hard for. Take your pointless forum warrioring elsewhere.
go to that forum... see if you can find that thread. i made a post, went back to the forum itself, and that thread was not to be seen.
why are they hiding it?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
go to that forum... see if you can find that thread. i made a post, went back to the forum itself, and that thread was not to be seen.
why are they hiding it?
Damage control. They hid or deleted the 111 page, 3200 post, thread. This is the third thread they have locked and/or deleted.
this new one is up to 3877 posts... oddly enough, it's got the same name as the sticky at the top of that forum (which you can't reply to)...
oh well, there's more and more MMOs coming out every year...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Comments
Thread is still active here myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
Which is pretty much the bottom line of what I am saying. And why I underlined "There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.".
Regardless if the original poster is wrong or not. But taken his word for it that he is right, the motivation for him to post it must be that he is(think he is) right. And if so there is no reason to believe that CCP also knows and sees what he see. If now there are so massive glaring flaws in it.
I see what your saying and kinda even agree. it's always fun to cheat the system, hell EVE's based on that to some degree. I guess I just see this a Game Time Card issue. I would be willing to bet most of the people this affects didn't even pay for the account too start with. I think this is the real issue CCP is trying to address. Not to mention the fact that a game built on such a shaky player base is a game in decline not growth.
Obviously the links to 3 different CCP staff members promoting this as a feature isn't enough for the guys claiming people were cheating or abusing something. Let's try looking at it like this.
Alts are basic the enjoyment of any mmorpg for most people. Eve is very, very different from most other mmorpgs, BUT, Eve is still an mmorpg, and exactly like other mmorpgs, Eve is full of players who use more than one character.
I dont mean more than one character as in a main, and then a one hour made hauler alt, I mean a fully functional alt.
Most players in most mmorpgs play more than one character. Sure there are some players who play only one, but they dont change the equation. Most players in mmorpgs, including Eve, play more than one character.
Other games charge you 15 dollars per month, and you can play a few characters.
CCP, blood sucking scammers they are, want us to pay a full subscription for each character.
What kind of a game expects you to pay a 30 dollars or 45 dollars or 60 dollars subscription fee each month in order to play more than one character? NONE, except for Eve. (and soon darkfall but atleast Darkfall is doing it for gameplay reasons and it is something their core community accepts)
Ghost training was NOT an exploit gaining people free advancement.
Ghost training lowered the cost in a game where the system is already rigged to cheat players by giving them only ONE training slot per account, rigged to charge them 2x, 3x, 4x MORE THAN ANY OTHER MMORPG for the same number of playable toons most people have in other games.
Another way Ive put it to people is this .
If you buy a car you expect it to have four wheels.
If, when you buy a car, they charge you extra for an all leather interior. Thats normal, thats industry standard.
If, when you buy a car, the first two wheels are standard, but the third and forth wheels are extra, then you are being scammed, you are being cheated, you are being screwed, because that is NOT industry standard practice.
Charging a full subscription fee each of more than one character in Eve has always been, and is even more so now, a total scam.
The only reason people tolerate it, and bury themselves under blankets of denial, is they love the game so much and really really want access to the unique charm of the game. That charm only goes so far though. CCP has in the past and is now lieing to, and cheating their customers. Too much is too much.
Your arguement is flawed, for the simple reason that you DON'T have to pay extra to have more characters since you can have three characters per account. If you want more characters to train up at the same time then yes that's different.
But not different from any other MMO, you can't level/grind/whatever on more than one character per account at the same time in WOW/EQ/<insert any MMO> either. IF you want the full benefit of using 2 characters at the same time to gain xp or whatever you'll have to have more than one account.
If you're going to argue something at least keep it realistic and logical.
111 Page thread just got deleted/locked and cloaked. Well done to CCP.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=111
I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
There's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
I love that metaphor. ymmd.
Especially since you can go from there to the old "a barking dog won#t bite"-saying.
WOW
Very well said m8
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
let me know if Eve 2 comes, i might come back then. But due to the current situation in Iceland I wonder.
The tank that is born to tank!
well we fight and we lose (seams that we lose)
but for us veterans there is a win part, we can laugh at n00bs when they will pay many days just to lvl up a skill and we can say " hahaha i got that skill for free " and this bug fix will degrease the number of n00bs that will have capitals so your n00b alliance wont do much vs a old alliance
if u look from this point of view is the best thing for veterans
BestSigEver :P
You are far from a vet, cosy, don't even pretend to be one.
You looking down on "n00bs" shows a lot..
I find it very sad that for a game that is considered "hard core" and with a "steep learning curve", so many supposedly "veterans" cry like a bunch of kids.
They give me the impression that the only reason they were good in the game or managed to achieve anything was because of taking advantage of that.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
Especially so since EVE is about the one MMO where age isn't everything, so any 'vet' would understand that part and not try to talk down on newer players. Having played a long time does not make you a vet, nor does it automatically make you smart and knowledgable on the game.
Some people are just unable to look/grow beyond the mental capacity of a 13 yearold old, regardless if they played for a long time, have an uberlong signature or spout the forums with their illogical ideas and tinfoil crap.
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
No one exploited the system. You cannot exploit a system that people openly discussed on the forums for years. Also, it was in the player guides
In the player guide it claimed this was a feature now they claim it was a bug
Lastly, people like me honestly were burned out on the game. Left the game. But naturally before we left, we set a long training skill. It's common sense. It was in the guide. But then the long skill popped and we were naturally tempted to return to tryout the new ship or whatever ability we gained
CCP need to do something about the public relations and other things (favouritism that still takes place in game) but what Enkidu said is what has gotten the players pissed off.
You do realize I was referring to the players that unfairly exploited the system here? CCP has every right not to continue to offer you services if you STOP PAYING THEM. The players were working the system in a manner that was obviously (to me) unethical.. which is why I never did it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The more I look over this thread, the more the current screwed up state of the world makes sense to me...
No one exploited the system. You cannot exploit a system that people openly discussed on the forums for years. Also, it was in the player guides
In the player guide it claimed this was a feature now they claim it was a bug
Lastly, people like me honestly were burned out on the game. Left the game. But naturally before we left, we set a long training skill. It's common sense. It was in the guide. But then the long skill popped and we were naturally tempted to return to tryout the new ship or whatever ability we gained
It was never an INTENDED feature of the game, it just happened to work that way. CCP was asked many times in dev chats (usually with relation to a skill queue question) whether they were going to stop it or not and there answer was NOT YET. There was never a promise that it would continue forever.
The problem is that players got used to it and it became more well known so in turn more people exploited the loophole until they couldn't ignore it anymore.
It's quite likely that the isk sellers started to abuse it en masse churning out cap-ship pilots to sell and CCP had no choice but to close the hole.
You got a free lunch for 5+ years with them not fixing this little bug but it's over. Deal with it or don't but this whinage is embarrassing.
Do you even play the game anymore. I'm just going to copy and paste a response I made in the other thread and hopefully you can connect the dots why an Eve character is even more grindy than an EQ1/Korean MMO character.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter
Trader
Industrialist
Scientist
Explorer
Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
Do you even play the game anymore. I'm just going to copy and paste a response I made in the other thread and hopefully you can connect the dots why an Eve character is even more grindy than an EQ1/Korean MMO character.
An Eve account has a slot for 3 characters BUT only one character can train a skill at any given time. The issue comes up when the game has so many skills you can go down several different distinct professions.
Fighter
Trader
Industrialist
Scientist
Explorer
Leadership
Are the basic profession molds players have come up with over the years.
The fastest profession to train is Trader which takes about 8 months to max out depending on implants and race.
The slowest profession to train is Fighter which takes almost 2 years to max out for one of the four races.
As a result atleast having one alt account becomes important for the player who wants to not slow down the progression of their main for a secondary profession.
To keep thiings in perspective.
Most of Eve's players don't have alts though.
But that fact isn't important because ghost training really was an incentive to those who were willing to buy alt accounts. Even though they make up about 15% of the population they account for almost a third of paid for accounts.
(this is all according to CCP's guesses about populations)
In retrospect I believe now CCP wasn't doing this to milk money out of their regular players but doing this because of the increasing popularity of character sellers. CCP probably believes there are enough people making accounts just to ghost train characters to sell to other players that if they price gouge them the amount of money they make off them will be more beneficial than the money they lose from players who cancel their alts.
playing since beta 5 thanks and I play only a single character. Have and alt that used to be my friends character but haven't had that account active for 6 months. My character can do a little of everything and it's taken me 5+ years to get him that way.
When you're listing the time it takes to max out a certain profession you're missing 1 key thing. There's no NEED to max out any one profession.
Also, specifically for the racial ship training, once you max out 1 race including all tech 2 ships it takes relatively little time to work your way up to be able to fly another races ships including tech 2 as all of the tech2 ship skills are non race specific so a couple of weeks can take you from tech 1 frigates to tech 2 battlecruiser tech1 frigate of any other race.
Honestly there's so much overlap in skills in this game to me it seems stupid to create a second character when you'll just end up training the same skills all over again. The only valid use I see for a second account in this game is if you fly cap ships and need a cyno character or you're so antisocial you have no friends ingame.
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
L.O.F.L.
n00b most of old 00 alliance have capital alts trained in all this years just pay and move capital alt on main account
n00bs will have to pay all the time for capital train do u ganna pay 60 days for a lvl ?
so, when you play an mmo... you play one, single toon and that's it? be it eve, cox, wow, whatever game... you play one, single character and that's it?
you ARE in the minority there. period.
i have an account i pay for and keep active nonstop. so from one person, there's a constant flow of income.
back when there were 90day GTCs, i'd rotate several other accounts. when the GTC would expire, i'd put a long skill training. otherwise, since this IS a game where you CAN be an actual spy (i know, crazy idea), but in order to be an EFFECTIVE spy, your infiltrating/spy character kinda needs to be progressing in their skills. you can't just take a 2m sp alt and never train them, and expect for your spy to be effective in the long term.
so, instead of several accounts, which would equal the money paid for 3-4 accounts; ccp will now get the money from my original main account and that's it. i don't want to quit the game; but, i will be quitting this aspect of the game.
again, ccp cancelled the ghost training once in the past; until they realized the uproar it caused.
so tell me, exactly how was i cheating ccp, and not supporting them FAR more, monetarily, than anyone saying "oh i have a single account"? i'm sad that only limited, in-the-box thinking is what should be catored to... too bad i'm not so limited that i can't see the obvious advantages in running multiple accounts on multiple computers.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
why first now?!
Jesus, as if the the old players didn't have enough ahead of them already.
Getting tired of changes that should have been at release and not first fixed years after, when it'll simply break it down.
It's their own fault for creating such great "SIGH" moments that make people take a break from eve for a few months, they should be adressing how to solve that instead of this change!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Such ignorance. I'd like to see you make the money I make in game without having to sell time cards and be on the front lines at the same time. Save your condescending tone, you're wasting your breathe because you have, simply put, no idea what you're talking about. I do not have any cyno characters but have some expensive toys I worked damned hard for. Take your pointless forum warrioring elsewhere.
someone earlier in this thread pointed out this:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
go to that forum... see if you can find that thread. i made a post, went back to the forum itself, and that thread was not to be seen.
why are they hiding it?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Damage control. They hid or deleted the 111 page, 3200 post, thread. This is the third thread they have locked and/or deleted.
Damage control. They hid or deleted the 111 page, 3200 post, thread. This is the third thread they have locked and/or deleted.
this new one is up to 3877 posts... oddly enough, it's got the same name as the sticky at the top of that forum (which you can't reply to)...
oh well, there's more and more MMOs coming out every year...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?