Dungeon siege is not an MMO and yes I played the original. Not an appropriate example IMO. Given that you did not reply to the original question is it safe to assume that the answer is no? You have not played UO or SWG? If so, I am just going to suggest that you keep an open mind until you try out DF.
I have an open mind. That is not relevant to the topic.
How is the system in Darkfall vastly different from teh system in Dungeon Siege?
I get they are different genres, single player vs MMORPG, but we are discussing the combat system.
The combat systems are the same, yes?
Yes, that is what we are discussing (actually skill system but I assume that is what you meant). However, i am not discussing it outside the overall game because I think it makes a difference.
In a game like WoW or EQ, yes I think that being able to level your toon by sparring with other players would be inappropriate. However, the gameplay in DF will be dramatically different from the EQ-clones. One has to be either sufficiently imaginative or have had the experience of a similar MMO to relate. Even though Dungeon Siege has a similar skill system, the overall experience was nothing like UO or SWG.
Think of it like this, back to the motorcycle example. Say some arbitrary person's need for an automobile is for something that accomodate his whole family and luggage for the weekend trips. When that person is asked about motorcycles, he says that they are stupid because they seat at most two people and can't carry much luggage. This is an unfair criticism because motorcycles serve different purposes. In general seating and cargo capacity for motorcycles are hardly relevant. Such is the case when you compare features between PvE focussed EQ-clones and full PvP skill based sandboxes.
Motorcycle analogy fails.
Raising skill by using skills is raising skills by using skills, no matter how you slice it, no matter whether you put it in a single player or multi player game.
I'm not saying it's the worst system ever, but it's kinda lame IMO.
It's for people that need everything to be literal.
What a few of us have been trying to explain is that the game is NOT about raising your skills. Sandbox MMOs like UO, SWG, etc. are fundamentally different from games like EQ, WoW, etc. Take SWG for example. You could max out your skills in a very short amount of time. If you were a decent player with decent time, you could max out in 3 days. After that, you could play for YEARS and still have fun every day. (Not YEARS for SWG because of what SOE did to it, but if it was left as pre-cu this would apply). It's like comparing point-and-click adventure games with first-person-shooters. They are different kinds of games.
In the end, having better skills is more like choosing which weapon you want to use. Sometimes you'll pick cool-looking weapons because that's what you prefer. Darkfall is more about player skill (FPS-style combat) than what skills you have. A few new players with no skills can take down a bad, long-time player.
Actually no, to be Jedi you had to max all skills, and it took a long time. People would skill grind to get to Jedi.
Well, not to get into an SWG argument (but I can't help myself!):
I was referring to the first 2 or 3 months before they started messing the game up. My argument still applies though. Even when people got to max skills as a jedi, they still played for a long time after that...
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Why do i have the feeling that even if this game is one day released and has a succesful launch, it'll quickly turn up to be a gank fest where some no life gamers groups (goons?) will end up commiting noob genocides
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
If the world is indeed as large as they say, then what does it matter. No one clan will have enough MEMBERS to rule the whole world. There will be guilds that are anti-PK, and slaughter PKers ruthlessly. There will be PKers, who attack everyone ruthlessly. There will be the guilds that just want to carve off some of the land, and kill those who intrude, but allow others to come and go in peace. You all forget the PLAYER aspect of the game. There are already dozens of guilds formed for this game, all with different agendas, etc.
Hopefully we won't have thousands of threads complaining why there are no Carebear PvE servers in Darkfall.
<----------- There are many games that offer PvE servers. Choose any and enjoy.
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Hopefully we won't have thousands of threads complaining why there are no Carebear PvE servers in Darkfall.
<----------- There are many games that offer PvE servers. Choose any and enjoy.
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
Hehe. People coming to DF's boards and asking for PvE servers kind of remind me of the people coming to EVE boards and doing the same thing there, asking for a PvE server. XD Silly!
Ganking is fine. In the wolrd of FFA PvP (which I'm guessing alot of the people complaining about Darkfall, have never played) the timeleine of a tough character, who sticks it out goes something like this.
Noob is born.
Noob gets ganked.
Noob gets ganked, again and again. (Now this is where some might quit)
Noob asks for help and joins a guild/clan.
Noob is able to learn game mechanics, PvP skills and good spots to hunt/PvP from guildmates.
Hopefully we won't have thousands of threads complaining why there are no Carebear PvE servers in Darkfall.
<----------- There are many games that offer PvE servers. Choose any and enjoy.
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
Hehe. People coming to DF's boards and asking for PvE servers kind of remind me of the people coming to EVE boards and doing the same thing there, asking for a PvE server. XD Silly!
Ugh I remember seeing way too many of those posts during my EVE days. EVE is still one of my favorite MMOs even though I stopped playing it. The immersion that game allows through its pvp and economy is amazing considering you play a ship and not a humanoid.
But yea some people are just too ridiculous to try and figure out. PVE servers on EVE....sigh
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I remember when SWG did that... all that time got wasted with all the screwed up updates. So did guild wars in its first year. what a change from its beta too the end of the first year of release and i think it was for the worse even though the expansions were better.
Everyone keeps saying things to the effect of 'Oh I am going to be killed every few seconds! Especially when I'm outnumbered!' But they forget that Darkfall is designed to be completely different from any other MMO. You won't automatically win because you have more numbers, a quick person can take down multiple people if you are skilled, look at first person shooters, you don't always lose when outnumbered.
People also can't tell what you are, or how good you are. So unlike, lets say, Wow, the problem of ganking is much less. A 70 will win against a level 20 no matter what. In Darkfall if it pulls it off? There are no levels, you won't just attack something on sight unless you are either really skilled, or really confident.
The 'problem' of someone ganking you and logging off? Well you have their name if you are smart. And if this happens to multiple people from the same person, guess what? That guy/girl is KoS to all. They are also forgetting that this is not WoW, gear is not the end all be all.
Actually no, to be Jedi you had to max all skills, and it took a long time. People would skill grind to get to Jedi.
Well, not to get into an SWG argument (but I can't help myself!):
I was referring to the first 2 or 3 months before they started messing the game up. My argument still applies though. Even when people got to max skills as a jedi, they still played for a long time after that...
Everyone keeps saying things to the effect of 'Oh I am going to be killed every few seconds! Especially when I'm outnumbered!' But they forget that Darkfall is designed to be completely different from any other MMO. You won't automatically win because you have more numbers, a quick person can take down multiple people if you are skilled, look at first person shooters, you don't always lose when outnumbered. People also can't tell what you are, or how good you are. So unlike, lets say, Wow, the problem of ganking is much less. A 70 will win against a level 20 no matter what. In Darkfall if it pulls it off? There are no levels, you won't just attack something on sight unless you are either really skilled, or really confident. The 'problem' of someone ganking you and logging off? Well you have their name if you are smart. And if this happens to multiple people from the same person, guess what? That guy/girl is KoS to all. They are also forgetting that this is not WoW, gear is not the end all be all.
You are absolutely correct......unfortunately most people are too damn thick to understand any of it. All they know is the PvP they have come across in other level based PvE games so they immediately associate ganking with PvP. Of course your gonna get unfairly ganked in a game that is level based and in which everyone can see what level you are due to the glowing advertisement floating above your head.
However as everyone knows but people like the OP keep forgetting, Darkfall doesnt have levels and there is no way of seeing how powerful someone is or even what they are capable of doing. You could make a guess from what they look like but thats as far as it goes. Also Darkfall has been designed as a PvP game unlike all the other PvE games which had PvP servers added as an afterthought.
Its crazy that people associate the word ganking with a game that offers the level of freedom that Darkfall potentially does. "Oh no I dont want to be interrupted while I am crafting boo hoo. I want to play my game solo and be left in peace". Well get stuffed then and go and play a boring PvE game instead. There are plenty of them about. Once I have had a taste of a realistic mmo I wont want to go back to any of that dull PvE crap. Why would I want to log onto an online game to have the computer tell me a story when I can create my own with other human beings? Thats what single player games are for.
Time Sink - this is a word... or.... words... I guess... that I do not like. The reason I don't like them is because the automatically make one aspect of a game sound, boring. And, well, deservingly so.
In my history of gaming, I have come to notice some things about the time sink. The most obvious is that no one likes them. But if you think about what a time sink is, then you'll understand how they can be useful, and how to properly use them.
The time sink really is nothing more than a grind. A grind of passing time that must lapse before you reach your next checkpoint and/or goal. A grind of waiting so that the game may have lengthened longevity. All MMO's have them, but most are not even noticable.
For instance, leveling your toon is more often than not a time sink. How many times have you heard "Just wait til you hit lvl 60!" or "The game doesn't even really START until you reach level cap..."? To reiterate this, I ask - if the fun doesn't start until after the "grind" then why have a grind in the first place? To make the game longer.
Most games like to be coy with this appearant time sink by offering you lots of quests. However (and the public is really catching onto this, thankfully)most of these quests can be broken down into similar patterns that repeat as you progress through new areas of the world map. For instance, you start the game, and you are immediately tasked with killing a certain amount of a certain monster type in the general vicinity for hides. In that same area (usually a town) you have three or four of the exact same quest, only it's a different monster. From there, you are promoted to investigating why these certain feinds are plaguing the area. After that, you have to investigate their respective lairs. Then you have to destroy said lairs. Keep in mind, at this point, you've done only four different types of quests, but you've done those quests for say... five different mobs that exist in that area. So, you've recieved credit for doing 20 quests already.
After these quests, you start getting into the lore of the area... and what is going on, which is usually tied hand in hand with the earlier quests. Make no mistake though people, it all only sounds different because of clever writing (which you don't read anyway, so it's not wonder it all feels the same in every game.) So, you'll do these lore quests, which follow the same routine as before (kill mobs, search for lair, investigate lair, destroy lair) for which your reward is probably your first rare peice of equipment.
Area finished, move to the next. Same quests... different lore... different mobs. This pretty much is the entire game - the grind... THE time sink... the time sink that you don't realise is a time sink. All it does is keep you from enjoying the quality things the game has to offer - raids, PvP, seige... all the stuff we really like about MMO's that we don't get from any other game, but can't even begin to compete or assist in because why? We aren't max level yet.....
Then you have your other time sinks. The ones that are ever present and in our face all the time and never apologize for existing. The travel times; the death penalties; the equipment repairing; the resource gathering; the gold farming; the improbable chance for looting what you're wanting... These time sinks, are also nothing but a grind on your patience, that exist - why? Because the game would be too short without them. As you can see, this is true because more and more MMO's are desperately trying to get rid of the time sinks, and more and more MMO gamers are reaching what? Max level in their first few weeks of playing...
My contention is simply this - Time sinks must exist. They will always be a grind. But they don't have to be boring. There are ways to make these time sinks more fun.
I mean, take for instance a game like Assassin's Creed (yes, I know it isn't an MMO.) The whole game is basically one big travel time sink. But, aside from the repetitive nature of the missions you perform, the travelling is actually fun - jumping rooftop to rooftop; climbing up walls; sneaking about; riding one amazingly animated horse...
Tomb Raider is another good one that is one huge travel time sink. Why isn't it boring? Because the fun in the game is figuring out how to get to where you are going - it's a puzzle unto itself.
Knights of the Old Republic - what makes it not so boring? Well, the fact that you never really do the same mission twice, for one. How about this - you're always in a state of moving forward? How many times have you said to yourself while playing any number of MMO's - "*Sigh* I wish I could leave this place and move on to somewhere else!"? I mean, in all honesty, you should always be in a constant state of progression. It's not just about always leveling up, but always moving, keeping it fresh. Don't give the player a reason to stick in one place too long.
Half Life 2 anyone? Again, you're always moving forward. The story isn't spelled out for you - you actually have to figure out what's going on. It changes mood all the time from being epic, to creepy, to sirene. Then, it puts you into the buggy, and suddenly you've got a completely different game on your hand. Honestly, who drove that buggy in HL2 (hint: travel time sink) and thought "Man, this is a total waste of time..."?
I realise that these games I've listed are not MMO's, but they serve my point exactly. Time sinks are only boring if the developer makes them boring. And it's easy to make them boring, especially when you take into consideration that they aren't thinking about the game as a whole - they're only thinking about what they are designing, and what it's purpose is.
I for one, think this is what made WoW such a good game. Blizzard knew how to make a good game... then they just used that knowledge and applied it to the MMO. Now, if someone could recapture that, and then reinvent, not necissarily what you do, but how you do it... That's going to be the next big "it" - the time sinks won't suck.
Hours of hard work? It doesn't take hours to get gear in DF. Win more pvp fights than you lose and you will already have some spare gear accumulated. Join a guild - even more gear. PVE - even more!!! Be a crafter? Wow, gear galore!
As a PVE player, I don't like being ganked nor do I like PVP. But I'll take a PVP game that gives me a free and open world to wander in over a linear quest-laden PVE crapfest any day.
In other words, I'm saying I'd rather be ganked and looted than bored to tears in some Candy-land theme park game.
The way I understand DF is (someone corrrect me if I'm wrong) , the success of the player is weighted heavily on his attained skills and not so much on the weapons or armor. Also, I understood there is item decay (to keep crafting an integral part of the game). With that being said, weapons and armor won't be the defining strength of your character. If you were to get PK'd the loss of gear should not be as devastating as it would be in other traditional mmo's.
As far as loss of gold or currency or whatever they call it. I assume you can bank your money somewhere. Just like in RL you shouldn't walk around with your life savings in your pocket.
Figure in the risk / reward and I think it will be the right balance. Certainly not mindless FFA.
As a PVE player, I don't like being ganked nor do I like PVP. But I'll take a PVP game that gives me a free and open world to wander in over a linear quest-laden PVE crapfest any day. In other words, I'm saying I'd rather be ganked and looted than bored to tears in some Candy-land theme park game. Bring it on.
You're my hero.
Seriously no sarcasm intended. I wish more PVE'ers would open their minds and not just make the same ingorant response: "PVP games are for the leet kids and im glad they will be off my server griefing me...bottom of the barrel scum". So pathetic when i see people type that.
But wait, I didn't say Tasos is God and Darkfall cures cancer, so troll, troll, troll, you must be a troll, you are trolling troll, troll, troll, if you don't say Tasos is a God you are a troll, and if you don't say Darkfall cures cancer you are a troll, troll, I like to use the word troll, you didn't agree with me, you're a troll, you have to agree with whatever I say, or you're a troll, I can use the word troll.
And now we have a new low in the "troll" definitions. If you're not going to play the game, you 're a troll.
But wait, I didn't say Tasos is God and Darkfall cures cancer, so troll, troll, troll, you must be a troll, you are trolling troll, troll, troll, if you don't say Tasos is a God you are a troll, and if you don't say Darkfall cures cancer you are a troll, troll, I like to use the word troll, you didn't agree with me, you're a troll, you have to agree with whatever I say, or you're a troll, I can use the word troll.
And now we have a new low in the "troll" definitions. If you're not going to play the game, you 're a troll.
As a PVE player, I don't like being ganked nor do I like PVP. But I'll take a PVP game that gives me a free and open world to wander in over a linear quest-laden PVE crapfest any day. In other words, I'm saying I'd rather be ganked and looted than bored to tears in some Candy-land theme park game. Bring it on.
Truckload of internets points to You good Sir. I wish more PvE people would be as openminded, maybe we would see some actually good games in the future.
Your question is fair . Will it be the same fun fewling?
From what u wrote it seems to me that you r looking for more fair and balanced pvp like wow'w arena for example. Its 5v5 3v3 or 2v2 u all start full life , no gang during quests involved there is aladder also to go for the championship title.
You seem to forget 1 thing THOUGH.
Daoc may was open world pvp based like DF seems it ll be BUT.
It had exactly the same combat system like all other games . wow, war ,eq e.t.c. means u hit the spell button and the spell /arrow if u were archer was running after the target like a fucking abraam /maverick missle.. which means when 7 players trying to gang 3 players all same lvls the victory was sure and easy.
In DF though the 7v3 situation wont be such an easy pick if ofc the 3 are skilled and smart.
There is always a chance your healer to heal your enemy if he wont mark carefully or your felow mates instead of the 3 enemies will hack and slash you butt if he is or you are not carefull.
I ve always was saying world pvp mmorpgs MUST have manual combat systems so the fewer will have more chance on survival if they are skilled. From what they say that happens in DF. My advise? Check th trial upon launch so u can have a good opinion of the game.. and who knows old loves sometime are coming back matie =]
Comments
I have an open mind. That is not relevant to the topic.
How is the system in Darkfall vastly different from teh system in Dungeon Siege?
I get they are different genres, single player vs MMORPG, but we are discussing the combat system.
The combat systems are the same, yes?
Yes, that is what we are discussing (actually skill system but I assume that is what you meant). However, i am not discussing it outside the overall game because I think it makes a difference.
In a game like WoW or EQ, yes I think that being able to level your toon by sparring with other players would be inappropriate. However, the gameplay in DF will be dramatically different from the EQ-clones. One has to be either sufficiently imaginative or have had the experience of a similar MMO to relate. Even though Dungeon Siege has a similar skill system, the overall experience was nothing like UO or SWG.
Think of it like this, back to the motorcycle example. Say some arbitrary person's need for an automobile is for something that accomodate his whole family and luggage for the weekend trips. When that person is asked about motorcycles, he says that they are stupid because they seat at most two people and can't carry much luggage. This is an unfair criticism because motorcycles serve different purposes. In general seating and cargo capacity for motorcycles are hardly relevant. Such is the case when you compare features between PvE focussed EQ-clones and full PvP skill based sandboxes.
Motorcycle analogy fails.
Raising skill by using skills is raising skills by using skills, no matter how you slice it, no matter whether you put it in a single player or multi player game.
I'm not saying it's the worst system ever, but it's kinda lame IMO.
It's for people that need everything to be literal.
What a few of us have been trying to explain is that the game is NOT about raising your skills. Sandbox MMOs like UO, SWG, etc. are fundamentally different from games like EQ, WoW, etc. Take SWG for example. You could max out your skills in a very short amount of time. If you were a decent player with decent time, you could max out in 3 days. After that, you could play for YEARS and still have fun every day. (Not YEARS for SWG because of what SOE did to it, but if it was left as pre-cu this would apply). It's like comparing point-and-click adventure games with first-person-shooters. They are different kinds of games.
In the end, having better skills is more like choosing which weapon you want to use. Sometimes you'll pick cool-looking weapons because that's what you prefer. Darkfall is more about player skill (FPS-style combat) than what skills you have. A few new players with no skills can take down a bad, long-time player.
Actually no, to be Jedi you had to max all skills, and it took a long time. People would skill grind to get to Jedi.
Well, not to get into an SWG argument (but I can't help myself!):
I was referring to the first 2 or 3 months before they started messing the game up. My argument still applies though. Even when people got to max skills as a jedi, they still played for a long time after that...
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Why do i have the feeling that even if this game is one day released and has a succesful launch, it'll quickly turn up to be a gank fest where some no life gamers groups (goons?) will end up commiting noob genocides
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
lol
If the world is indeed as large as they say, then what does it matter. No one clan will have enough MEMBERS to rule the whole world. There will be guilds that are anti-PK, and slaughter PKers ruthlessly. There will be PKers, who attack everyone ruthlessly. There will be the guilds that just want to carve off some of the land, and kill those who intrude, but allow others to come and go in peace. You all forget the PLAYER aspect of the game. There are already dozens of guilds formed for this game, all with different agendas, etc.
DARKFALL 09!
Apparently 08 didn't make it
Sorros of Forumfall.
Hopefully we won't have thousands of threads complaining why there are no Carebear PvE servers in Darkfall.
<----------- There are many games that offer PvE servers. Choose any and enjoy.
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
Hehe. People coming to DF's boards and asking for PvE servers kind of remind me of the people coming to EVE boards and doing the same thing there, asking for a PvE server. XD Silly!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Ganking is fine. In the wolrd of FFA PvP (which I'm guessing alot of the people complaining about Darkfall, have never played) the timeleine of a tough character, who sticks it out goes something like this.
Noob is born.
Noob gets ganked.
Noob gets ganked, again and again. (Now this is where some might quit)
Noob asks for help and joins a guild/clan.
Noob is able to learn game mechanics, PvP skills and good spots to hunt/PvP from guildmates.
Noob is able to teach other people these things.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
There will be plenty of them....and they have already started on the official boards.
Luckily the devs won't give in and the mods just lock or move the carebear comments to the newcommers forum. People can have fun in pve only games and that is great...but to come to a pvp game forum and try to say "i think the devs should make it less pvp focused" is being an ignorant carebear. OP isnt an ignorant carebear imo, but there are plenty to go around this forum.
Hehe. People coming to DF's boards and asking for PvE servers kind of remind me of the people coming to EVE boards and doing the same thing there, asking for a PvE server. XD Silly!
Ugh I remember seeing way too many of those posts during my EVE days. EVE is still one of my favorite MMOs even though I stopped playing it. The immersion that game allows through its pvp and economy is amazing considering you play a ship and not a humanoid.
But yea some people are just too ridiculous to try and figure out. PVE servers on EVE....sigh
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I remember when SWG did that... all that time got wasted with all the screwed up updates. So did guild wars in its first year. what a change from its beta too the end of the first year of release and i think it was for the worse even though the expansions were better.
Everyone keeps saying things to the effect of 'Oh I am going to be killed every few seconds! Especially when I'm outnumbered!' But they forget that Darkfall is designed to be completely different from any other MMO. You won't automatically win because you have more numbers, a quick person can take down multiple people if you are skilled, look at first person shooters, you don't always lose when outnumbered.
People also can't tell what you are, or how good you are. So unlike, lets say, Wow, the problem of ganking is much less. A 70 will win against a level 20 no matter what. In Darkfall if it pulls it off? There are no levels, you won't just attack something on sight unless you are either really skilled, or really confident.
The 'problem' of someone ganking you and logging off? Well you have their name if you are smart. And if this happens to multiple people from the same person, guess what? That guy/girl is KoS to all. They are also forgetting that this is not WoW, gear is not the end all be all.
Well, not to get into an SWG argument (but I can't help myself!):
I was referring to the first 2 or 3 months before they started messing the game up. My argument still applies though. Even when people got to max skills as a jedi, they still played for a long time after that...
Fogeddaboudit demalus, he's a lost cause.
You are doing nothing of the sort. You are ignoring peoples arguments and making unsubstantiated statements of your own and presenting them as fact.
Do you even plan to play Darkfall or are you just trolling?
You are absolutely correct......unfortunately most people are too damn thick to understand any of it. All they know is the PvP they have come across in other level based PvE games so they immediately associate ganking with PvP. Of course your gonna get unfairly ganked in a game that is level based and in which everyone can see what level you are due to the glowing advertisement floating above your head.
However as everyone knows but people like the OP keep forgetting, Darkfall doesnt have levels and there is no way of seeing how powerful someone is or even what they are capable of doing. You could make a guess from what they look like but thats as far as it goes. Also Darkfall has been designed as a PvP game unlike all the other PvE games which had PvP servers added as an afterthought.
Its crazy that people associate the word ganking with a game that offers the level of freedom that Darkfall potentially does. "Oh no I dont want to be interrupted while I am crafting boo hoo. I want to play my game solo and be left in peace". Well get stuffed then and go and play a boring PvE game instead. There are plenty of them about. Once I have had a taste of a realistic mmo I wont want to go back to any of that dull PvE crap. Why would I want to log onto an online game to have the computer tell me a story when I can create my own with other human beings? Thats what single player games are for.
Time Sink - this is a word... or.... words... I guess... that I do not like. The reason I don't like them is because the automatically make one aspect of a game sound, boring. And, well, deservingly so.
In my history of gaming, I have come to notice some things about the time sink. The most obvious is that no one likes them. But if you think about what a time sink is, then you'll understand how they can be useful, and how to properly use them.
The time sink really is nothing more than a grind. A grind of passing time that must lapse before you reach your next checkpoint and/or goal. A grind of waiting so that the game may have lengthened longevity. All MMO's have them, but most are not even noticable.
For instance, leveling your toon is more often than not a time sink. How many times have you heard "Just wait til you hit lvl 60!" or "The game doesn't even really START until you reach level cap..."? To reiterate this, I ask - if the fun doesn't start until after the "grind" then why have a grind in the first place? To make the game longer.
Most games like to be coy with this appearant time sink by offering you lots of quests. However (and the public is really catching onto this, thankfully)most of these quests can be broken down into similar patterns that repeat as you progress through new areas of the world map. For instance, you start the game, and you are immediately tasked with killing a certain amount of a certain monster type in the general vicinity for hides. In that same area (usually a town) you have three or four of the exact same quest, only it's a different monster. From there, you are promoted to investigating why these certain feinds are plaguing the area. After that, you have to investigate their respective lairs. Then you have to destroy said lairs. Keep in mind, at this point, you've done only four different types of quests, but you've done those quests for say... five different mobs that exist in that area. So, you've recieved credit for doing 20 quests already.
After these quests, you start getting into the lore of the area... and what is going on, which is usually tied hand in hand with the earlier quests. Make no mistake though people, it all only sounds different because of clever writing (which you don't read anyway, so it's not wonder it all feels the same in every game.) So, you'll do these lore quests, which follow the same routine as before (kill mobs, search for lair, investigate lair, destroy lair) for which your reward is probably your first rare peice of equipment.
Area finished, move to the next. Same quests... different lore... different mobs. This pretty much is the entire game - the grind... THE time sink... the time sink that you don't realise is a time sink. All it does is keep you from enjoying the quality things the game has to offer - raids, PvP, seige... all the stuff we really like about MMO's that we don't get from any other game, but can't even begin to compete or assist in because why? We aren't max level yet.....
Then you have your other time sinks. The ones that are ever present and in our face all the time and never apologize for existing. The travel times; the death penalties; the equipment repairing; the resource gathering; the gold farming; the improbable chance for looting what you're wanting... These time sinks, are also nothing but a grind on your patience, that exist - why? Because the game would be too short without them. As you can see, this is true because more and more MMO's are desperately trying to get rid of the time sinks, and more and more MMO gamers are reaching what? Max level in their first few weeks of playing...
My contention is simply this - Time sinks must exist. They will always be a grind. But they don't have to be boring. There are ways to make these time sinks more fun.
I mean, take for instance a game like Assassin's Creed (yes, I know it isn't an MMO.) The whole game is basically one big travel time sink. But, aside from the repetitive nature of the missions you perform, the travelling is actually fun - jumping rooftop to rooftop; climbing up walls; sneaking about; riding one amazingly animated horse...
Tomb Raider is another good one that is one huge travel time sink. Why isn't it boring? Because the fun in the game is figuring out how to get to where you are going - it's a puzzle unto itself.
Knights of the Old Republic - what makes it not so boring? Well, the fact that you never really do the same mission twice, for one. How about this - you're always in a state of moving forward? How many times have you said to yourself while playing any number of MMO's - "*Sigh* I wish I could leave this place and move on to somewhere else!"? I mean, in all honesty, you should always be in a constant state of progression. It's not just about always leveling up, but always moving, keeping it fresh. Don't give the player a reason to stick in one place too long.
Half Life 2 anyone? Again, you're always moving forward. The story isn't spelled out for you - you actually have to figure out what's going on. It changes mood all the time from being epic, to creepy, to sirene. Then, it puts you into the buggy, and suddenly you've got a completely different game on your hand. Honestly, who drove that buggy in HL2 (hint: travel time sink) and thought "Man, this is a total waste of time..."?
I realise that these games I've listed are not MMO's, but they serve my point exactly. Time sinks are only boring if the developer makes them boring. And it's easy to make them boring, especially when you take into consideration that they aren't thinking about the game as a whole - they're only thinking about what they are designing, and what it's purpose is.
I for one, think this is what made WoW such a good game. Blizzard knew how to make a good game... then they just used that knowledge and applied it to the MMO. Now, if someone could recapture that, and then reinvent, not necissarily what you do, but how you do it... That's going to be the next big "it" - the time sinks won't suck.
Hours of hard work? It doesn't take hours to get gear in DF. Win more pvp fights than you lose and you will already have some spare gear accumulated. Join a guild - even more gear. PVE - even more!!! Be a crafter? Wow, gear galore!
As a PVE player, I don't like being ganked nor do I like PVP. But I'll take a PVP game that gives me a free and open world to wander in over a linear quest-laden PVE crapfest any day.
In other words, I'm saying I'd rather be ganked and looted than bored to tears in some Candy-land theme park game.
Bring it on.
The way I understand DF is (someone corrrect me if I'm wrong) , the success of the player is weighted heavily on his attained skills and not so much on the weapons or armor. Also, I understood there is item decay (to keep crafting an integral part of the game). With that being said, weapons and armor won't be the defining strength of your character. If you were to get PK'd the loss of gear should not be as devastating as it would be in other traditional mmo's.
As far as loss of gold or currency or whatever they call it. I assume you can bank your money somewhere. Just like in RL you shouldn't walk around with your life savings in your pocket.
Figure in the risk / reward and I think it will be the right balance. Certainly not mindless FFA.
You're my hero.
Seriously no sarcasm intended. I wish more PVE'ers would open their minds and not just make the same ingorant response: "PVP games are for the leet kids and im glad they will be off my server griefing me...bottom of the barrel scum". So pathetic when i see people type that.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
You are doing nothing of the sort. You are ignoring peoples arguments and making unsubstantiated statements of your own and presenting them as fact.
Do you even plan to play Darkfall or are you just trolling?
I already have a guild planned:
http://www.gamerdna.com/GuildHome.php?re=1&short=clannaked
But wait, I didn't say Tasos is God and Darkfall cures cancer, so troll, troll, troll, you must be a troll, you are trolling troll, troll, troll, if you don't say Tasos is a God you are a troll, and if you don't say Darkfall cures cancer you are a troll, troll, I like to use the word troll, you didn't agree with me, you're a troll, you have to agree with whatever I say, or you're a troll, I can use the word troll.
And now we have a new low in the "troll" definitions. If you're not going to play the game, you 're a troll.
You are doing nothing of the sort. You are ignoring peoples arguments and making unsubstantiated statements of your own and presenting them as fact.
Do you even plan to play Darkfall or are you just trolling?
I already have a guild planned:
http://www.gamerdna.com/GuildHome.php?re=1&short=clannaked
But wait, I didn't say Tasos is God and Darkfall cures cancer, so troll, troll, troll, you must be a troll, you are trolling troll, troll, troll, if you don't say Tasos is a God you are a troll, and if you don't say Darkfall cures cancer you are a troll, troll, I like to use the word troll, you didn't agree with me, you're a troll, you have to agree with whatever I say, or you're a troll, I can use the word troll.
And now we have a new low in the "troll" definitions. If you're not going to play the game, you 're a troll.
Truckload of internets points to You good Sir. I wish more PvE people would be as openminded, maybe we would see some actually good games in the future.
Your question is fair . Will it be the same fun fewling?
From what u wrote it seems to me that you r looking for more fair and balanced pvp like wow'w arena for example. Its 5v5 3v3 or 2v2 u all start full life , no gang during quests involved there is aladder also to go for the championship title.
You seem to forget 1 thing THOUGH.
Daoc may was open world pvp based like DF seems it ll be BUT.
It had exactly the same combat system like all other games . wow, war ,eq e.t.c. means u hit the spell button and the spell /arrow if u were archer was running after the target like a fucking abraam /maverick missle.. which means when 7 players trying to gang 3 players all same lvls the victory was sure and easy.
In DF though the 7v3 situation wont be such an easy pick if ofc the 3 are skilled and smart.
There is always a chance your healer to heal your enemy if he wont mark carefully or your felow mates instead of the 3 enemies will hack and slash you butt if he is or you are not carefull.
I ve always was saying world pvp mmorpgs MUST have manual combat systems so the fewer will have more chance on survival if they are skilled. From what they say that happens in DF. My advise? Check th trial upon launch so u can have a good opinion of the game.. and who knows old loves sometime are coming back matie =]
That is what killed Dark and Light. Huge world, made it feel barren and lifeless.
DARK AND Light got killed cause it was a CRAP GAME WITH CRAPIE ANIMATIONS and crap in caps combat system bot cause of the size sigh*
While i am no fan of being ganked i question the "Hard Work"
I am usually sitting at the computer in sweats listening to music and drinking a beer or soda while playing. Doesnt seem so hard to me.
I wouldnt mind getting paid to do that hard work.