I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Btw ... I like your 'being objective' comment in your next post lol.
Any way ... my comment to Admikker was in response to blame placed on WoW for the failure of titles, like SWG. SWG was DOA; the game was completely broken and if not for the community and the IP I doubt the game would've lasted more than a few months. SOE/LA absolutely reacted to the Blizzard's success, but doing so without understanding why and instead implemented yet another crappy version of a crappy game.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
Lol, umm ... I never said your comment was off topic. Please let me know if I need to further clarify that for you.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
And we responded to your argument (on-topic since your argument was on topic) by saying that WOW was not designed to have sandbox elements. It, like many other games, are theme parks. While I agree with you, I think the argument is irrelevant because WOW was not designed that way. That is like going to a fastfood restaurant and getting angry because they don't have filet mignon.
I am not sure how IcoGames and I derailed the thread and I apologize if we did. but in my history of forum posting, this is the first time I have been accused of derailing a thread by responding to an argument someone raised in the thread itself.
Of course, we could argue that you derailed our argument now because you refuse to reply to the points we made and only want to continue to insult us by saying we derailed your agument.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
And we responded to your argument (on-topic since your argument was on topic) by saying that WOW was not designed to have sandbox elements. It, like many other games, are theme parks. While I agree with you, I think the argument is irrelevant because WOW was not designed that way. That is like going to a fastfood restaurant and getting angry because they don't have filet mignon.
I am not sure how IcoGames and I derailed the thread and I apologize if we did. but in my history of forum posting, this is the first time I have been accused of derailing a thread by responding to an argument someone raised in the thread itself.
Of course, we could argue that you derailed our argument now because you refuse to reply to the points we made and only want to continue to insult us by saying we derailed your agument.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Let's be realistic Blizzard in game " events " are hardly challenging. Like I said they are a mere distraction from the game itself rather than a living part of it. But then again personal opinion is relevant in this Topic since it's not about the great things about WoW but WoWs shortcomings.
Maybe if you had played a game with Live events or GM moderated/created events you would know what I'm talking about, but I have a feeling your coming from a WoW only background. But the so called wow events aren't events in the truest sense of the word but merely incoded in the game to appear at a certain time and be gone, no player interaction required, again, Brewfest is maybe an exeption with the evil Dwarves and all, but even it is very mild and not totally engrossing, and still totally predictable.
Then again I'm just re explaining myself since all your doing is defending wow, Again just aiming at the reasons wow is soo unpopular here.
I personally would rank it around 15th. I think the following are all better than WoW.
WAR, AOC, LOTRO, Eve, SWG, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, Guild Wars, Everquest, Everquest 2, AO, Lineage 2, D&D Online and Vanguard. And to be honest, I don't think half of those games are even worth playing.... if that tells you anything about my opinion of WoW.
I think groups A, B and D from your post would agree with me on most of those games.... I think group C has very low standards for what they let in their ear-holes and eye-holes... and they are the 10 million people playing the over-rated, boring, ugly game in question.
Originally posted by Recant So I checked the ratings on this site and according to the list, World of Warcraft is rated at around number 21 of all released MMORPGs. Ouch. Okay, so I play WoW, but my intention behind this post is not to tell you that you're wrong or voting badly, but merely to ask the following: Do you honestly believe that there are 20 better MMORPGs than WoW (or at least closely comparable)? If you are at all willing to answer, perhaps you would be inclined estimate how the following might rank WoW as well, I assume there are none around to ask directly: a) Professional opinion -(what other game developers might think.) b) Pseudo-professional opinion -(what games journalists might think.) c) A typical PC-gamer's opinion - (what a person who might enjoy games such as Half-Life, Fallout 3, Red Alert 3, etc might think) d) The 'Veteran' - what someone that has played more than a couple of MMORPGs for signfiicant periods of time might think. Actually I think that includes most of us.
There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me.
Just because a majority of people do something does not mean its great or smart. I think a professional opinion on the game would praise it, but only because it rakes in the money, with so many games trying to copy the aspects of the game blizzard got right (or even wrong >.>) it's sure to be seen as a "masterpiece of mmos". Journalists might find the game enjoyable but only because playing WoW could be compared to writing an article for a journal (lots of research, typing, etc), but it would be very clear that a lot of unsuccessful games have done a lot of what Blizzard did better, some of the fights have been called the most challenging and plenty of guilds rush to finish a fight before all overs, while games like Final Fantasy XI had a boss fight take 18 hours. A typical gamer however seems very influenced by media, magazines praise WoW and theres not a day goes by that there is some controversies in the news. People play the game merely because its popular, these are the people looking to waste time farming 40 rabbits for a quest rather then a player event involving cunning and ingenuity. These are the same people who ran to other games and went back to WoW. The veterans however are us, some of us love WoW, others despise it. We look to criticize WoW to improve the genre. This thread alone proves that I believe.
Thing I loved about WoW was that the levelling process was enjoyable and fun - not the EQ sado-masochism that so many love around here on mmorpg.com
But once you got to endgame and you wanted to be hardcore WoW had some of the best, and most challenging raid content in any mmorpg. Final Fantasy might have an 18 hour tank and spank bosses but bosses like vael, c'thun, most of 40 man naxx, vash and kael and m'uru were some of the best designed and toughest raid bosses seen in an mmorpg. I'd rather a 2-3 minute vael fight than a 18 hour borefest.
There were times in pre-BC and BC when I was raiding 5 nights a weeks and there were times when I would be casual and only played when I felt like it and I enjoyed both.
But now unless you're a keyboard turning clicker who is clueless about your class and game mechanics you are a no life nerd and your opinion doesn't count because you're in the minority. WoW has a new ruler - the casual elite - who think they deserve everything based on their $14.95 a month and anyone who disagrees with them should get a life.
Apparently to the millions of casuals if you put in any effort, even if you only raid 2 nights a week, it is wrong and Blizzard should close your account.
Its funny to watch the "casuals" become the e-bullies they spent so long accusing the hardcore raiders of being.
I believe they just used a different development approach compared to the previous expansion. Imagine TBC expansion released with just Karazhan. Then everything else patched in subsequent content packs. I believe this method is superior to releasing everything, have only time to test up to Karazhan and the rest are all broken and unreachable anyway.
The only difference between hardcore and casual is the time available. I much rather prefer the distinction between skilled and unskilled, and so do you I assume. An 18hrs encounter is pretty hardcore time wise, but the skill revolves around staying awake. When the raid is downsized, every single individual lost is a person less that can cover for mistakes. I'd say 10-12 people is the right size to make encounters engaging and challenging for everyone.
seems to me each person is only going to be able to answer this 'from their perspective'...
i think WoW is rated 21 because.........
and for me WoW isn't a draw because:
1) i dislike the utter, total trivilization of loot introduced with TBC
2) I dislike the ever expanding list of 'grinds' that are being introduced.....that, to me, do not equate to 'content'
e/g: collect every mount in the game........
3) I dislike the lore. there, i said it....... i didn't like the stories in Warcraft (the RTS) much, and the only story elements i appreciate in WoW are the ones that are 'funnies' Diablo references... pop culture references... things like that.
but, hey, with my sig i'm going to probably be labeled an SOE fanboi, taking enjoyment in 1/2 formulated games put out by corrupted companies
having said that, i think floppyface made a good point in why it's only #21..."levelling process was enjoyable and fun - not the EQ sado-masochism that so many love around here on mmorpg.com"
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Let's be realistic Blizzard in game " events " are hardly challenging. Like I said they are a mere distraction from the game itself rather than a living part of it. But then again personal opinion is relevant in this Topic since it's not about the great things about WoW but WoWs shortcomings.
Maybe if you had played a game with Live events or GM moderated/created events you would know what I'm talking about, but I have a feeling your coming from a WoW only background. But the so called wow events aren't events in the truest sense of the word but merely incoded in the game to appear at a certain time and be gone, no player interaction required, again, Brewfest is maybe an exeption with the evil Dwarves and all, but even it is very mild and not totally engrossing, and still totally predictable.
Then again I'm just re explaining myself since all your doing is defending wow, Again just aiming at the reasons wow is soo unpopular here.
Again, you're only looking for agreement to your comments. You've no interest in debating or seeing counter arguments to your own points lol.
In your world if someone makes a post 'all the bad things about WoW', you won't allow any defense of those 'things'. You're either incapable of accepting those points or plain ignorant (something you've repeatedly demonstrated).
Your original position was that WoW had niether had an interactive world (events) or special mobs to hunt. I gave you examples of both, which you blithely tossed-out as 'off-topic'.
I make no allusion that WoW is perfect, but if someone posts lies or ingorant comments they can expect a retort. I'm sorry you seem incapable of understanding what a discussion board is about.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I'm just wondering if wow is number 21 who's number 1, I mean wow has the biggest number of ppl, it's pretty old now but the new expansion is awesome, how do u compare one mmorpg to the other? u kinda can't britney mcdonalds, now I get it .
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone not voting for wow is a hater, multi-account-user, of course
While the sarcasm is duely noted and well stated, this site attracts burned out players looking for new mmos. Just look at how many people here blame WoW for ruining the entire market and you see that there is some truth behind your words.
Like it or not, most of the other 20 games above wow are dying. Some faster than others, but most are on the decline and have been so for a while now. This site doesn't attract players from games that are content and happy with what they are playing. It attracts people that are looking for a new game.
Just looking at the top 20 list of released games I see roughly 5 that are either being shut down, gone bankrupt or been sold as some sort of liquidated asset. 30 out of the top 33 games overall are not even released yet, because people are hoping for better games.
What does that tell about the "rankings" at this site and what people value here?
Comments
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Btw ... I like your 'being objective' comment in your next post lol.
Any way ... my comment to Admikker was in response to blame placed on WoW for the failure of titles, like SWG. SWG was DOA; the game was completely broken and if not for the community and the IP I doubt the game would've lasted more than a few months. SOE/LA absolutely reacted to the Blizzard's success, but doing so without understanding why and instead implemented yet another crappy version of a crappy game.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
Lol, umm ... I never said your comment was off topic. Please let me know if I need to further clarify that for you.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
And we responded to your argument (on-topic since your argument was on topic) by saying that WOW was not designed to have sandbox elements. It, like many other games, are theme parks. While I agree with you, I think the argument is irrelevant because WOW was not designed that way. That is like going to a fastfood restaurant and getting angry because they don't have filet mignon.
I am not sure how IcoGames and I derailed the thread and I apologize if we did. but in my history of forum posting, this is the first time I have been accused of derailing a thread by responding to an argument someone raised in the thread itself.
Of course, we could argue that you derailed our argument now because you refuse to reply to the points we made and only want to continue to insult us by saying we derailed your agument.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
I highly doubt most of the posters on this site are 'vets'; most just need something to hate on and well ... it's cool to take shots at the king I suppose.
SWG was DOA, Blizzard just put the nail in the coffin. Many would agree that SWG was a great game in concept only. Had SOE not 'taken' the game away, I suspect few would be discussing it today.
Actually the original SWG was a fun game those Sony IDIOTS did a number on it, I didn't get to play it long before they ruined it, was very upset. WOW is ranked #21 becuase many game elements wow simply does not have that older, good, mmorpgs did have. It simplified the genre for mass appeal ( idiots ) and in turn many good games like SWG became bad wow rip offs and died a tragic death, since most people not playing wow, do NOT want to play a wow clone, taking the good thing SWG was and turning it into Tardsville online wasn't a good idea.
WoW started a myth of there being no such thing as class balance and that is was just not possible, you know like when Hillary said the election was hopelessly deadlocked, you know BS.
Wow is a non immersive world where everything is predictable and nothing is hard to do, nothing is custimizable or unique amongst players, their is NO sandbox at all, no single element. It is a bland, weak Warner Brothers fantasy cartoon and just gets boring. Some people just don't want that.
Of course WoW is a fantasy themepark, what on God's green earth made you think it would be a sandbox mmo? Lol, I guess I can't understand why anyone would be upset with this.
I agree. That is like complaining in EVE's forums that the game is too hard, that Dark Age of Camelot is too historical, and City of Heroe's is based on comic books. People fail to understand that WOW is a game, like any other game, that is designed for the people who like it. If you do not like it, then it is not the game for you. It is the game for me, and Eve is not....but I do not post in the Eve forums bashing it. I have accepted the fact that there are games I like and that I don't. I wish people would understand the same about WOW.....guess my signature becomes more and more obvious every day, doesn't it?
See there you go again, completely offt topic with some kind of imagined claim. The Topic is ( World of Warcraft ranked #21) so of course this is a WoW bashing Topic, as in what are the shortcomings of WoW and why are poeple bored with the WoW instance hub prefab genre in the first place. I could care less about your sig and don't bother myself with the ramblings of pretentious people like yourself. You want to derail this topic is all, I understand.
But this topic is hardly the one for taking a defensive posture, you are completely off topic and just Hijacking again. If you don't have any explanations as to why wow is now #21 as stated in the Title then your wasting everyones time, you and Icogames can go pat each other on the back somewhere else if you want.
So how about it why is WoW #21 on MMORPGs list? Would you like to you know join the conversation and not try your chlldish attempt at deraliing the topic?
He and I are responding to, amoung others, your comment '(there) is NO sandbox at all'. Unless you concede your comment was off-topic, then our replies certainly weren't either.
In other words ... if your expectation was to find a sandbox with WoW and were dissappointed (therefore affecting how you would rate the game), I'm suggesting you were either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Actually I was completely ON topic explaining that WoW does not deliver many classic features in MMORPGs that players want and Sandbox elements are one of them. How is my comment off topic when I was referring to what the game lacks? So AGAIN would you like to comment on the conversation at hand os continue your hijacking attempt?
And we responded to your argument (on-topic since your argument was on topic) by saying that WOW was not designed to have sandbox elements. It, like many other games, are theme parks. While I agree with you, I think the argument is irrelevant because WOW was not designed that way. That is like going to a fastfood restaurant and getting angry because they don't have filet mignon.
I am not sure how IcoGames and I derailed the thread and I apologize if we did. but in my history of forum posting, this is the first time I have been accused of derailing a thread by responding to an argument someone raised in the thread itself.
Of course, we could argue that you derailed our argument now because you refuse to reply to the points we made and only want to continue to insult us by saying we derailed your agument.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Let's be realistic Blizzard in game " events " are hardly challenging. Like I said they are a mere distraction from the game itself rather than a living part of it. But then again personal opinion is relevant in this Topic since it's not about the great things about WoW but WoWs shortcomings.
Maybe if you had played a game with Live events or GM moderated/created events you would know what I'm talking about, but I have a feeling your coming from a WoW only background. But the so called wow events aren't events in the truest sense of the word but merely incoded in the game to appear at a certain time and be gone, no player interaction required, again, Brewfest is maybe an exeption with the evil Dwarves and all, but even it is very mild and not totally engrossing, and still totally predictable.
Then again I'm just re explaining myself since all your doing is defending wow, Again just aiming at the reasons wow is soo unpopular here.
I personally would rank it around 15th. I think the following are all better than WoW.
WAR, AOC, LOTRO, Eve, SWG, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, Guild Wars, Everquest, Everquest 2, AO, Lineage 2, D&D Online and Vanguard. And to be honest, I don't think half of those games are even worth playing.... if that tells you anything about my opinion of WoW.
I think groups A, B and D from your post would agree with me on most of those games.... I think group C has very low standards for what they let in their ear-holes and eye-holes... and they are the 10 million people playing the over-rated, boring, ugly game in question.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I think a professional opinion on the game would praise it, but only because it rakes in the money, with so many games trying to copy the aspects of the game blizzard got right (or even wrong >.>) it's sure to be seen as a "masterpiece of mmos".
Journalists might find the game enjoyable but only because playing WoW could be compared to writing an article for a journal (lots of research, typing, etc), but it would be very clear that a lot of unsuccessful games have done a lot of what Blizzard did better, some of the fights have been called the most challenging and plenty of guilds rush to finish a fight before all overs, while games like Final Fantasy XI had a boss fight take 18 hours.
A typical gamer however seems very influenced by media, magazines praise WoW and theres not a day goes by that there is some controversies in the news. People play the game merely because its popular, these are the people looking to waste time farming 40 rabbits for a quest rather then a player event involving cunning and ingenuity. These are the same people who ran to other games and went back to WoW.
The veterans however are us, some of us love WoW, others despise it. We look to criticize WoW to improve the genre. This thread alone proves that I believe.
My 2¢.
The Quantity=Quality argument still going, huh?
Thing I loved about WoW was that the levelling process was enjoyable and fun - not the EQ sado-masochism that so many love around here on mmorpg.com
But once you got to endgame and you wanted to be hardcore WoW had some of the best, and most challenging raid content in any mmorpg. Final Fantasy might have an 18 hour tank and spank bosses but bosses like vael, c'thun, most of 40 man naxx, vash and kael and m'uru were some of the best designed and toughest raid bosses seen in an mmorpg. I'd rather a 2-3 minute vael fight than a 18 hour borefest.
There were times in pre-BC and BC when I was raiding 5 nights a weeks and there were times when I would be casual and only played when I felt like it and I enjoyed both.
But now unless you're a keyboard turning clicker who is clueless about your class and game mechanics you are a no life nerd and your opinion doesn't count because you're in the minority. WoW has a new ruler - the casual elite - who think they deserve everything based on their $14.95 a month and anyone who disagrees with them should get a life.
Apparently to the millions of casuals if you put in any effort, even if you only raid 2 nights a week, it is wrong and Blizzard should close your account.
Its funny to watch the "casuals" become the e-bullies they spent so long accusing the hardcore raiders of being.
I believe they just used a different development approach compared to the previous expansion. Imagine TBC expansion released with just Karazhan. Then everything else patched in subsequent content packs. I believe this method is superior to releasing everything, have only time to test up to Karazhan and the rest are all broken and unreachable anyway.
The only difference between hardcore and casual is the time available. I much rather prefer the distinction between skilled and unskilled, and so do you I assume. An 18hrs encounter is pretty hardcore time wise, but the skill revolves around staying awake. When the raid is downsized, every single individual lost is a person less that can cover for mistakes. I'd say 10-12 people is the right size to make encounters engaging and challenging for everyone.
seems to me each person is only going to be able to answer this 'from their perspective'...
i think WoW is rated 21 because.........
and for me WoW isn't a draw because:
1) i dislike the utter, total trivilization of loot introduced with TBC
2) I dislike the ever expanding list of 'grinds' that are being introduced.....that, to me, do not equate to 'content'
e/g: collect every mount in the game........
3) I dislike the lore. there, i said it....... i didn't like the stories in Warcraft (the RTS) much, and the only story elements i appreciate in WoW are the ones that are 'funnies' Diablo references... pop culture references... things like that.
but, hey, with my sig i'm going to probably be labeled an SOE fanboi, taking enjoyment in 1/2 formulated games put out by corrupted companies
having said that, i think floppyface made a good point in why it's only #21..."levelling process was enjoyable and fun - not the EQ sado-masochism that so many love around here on mmorpg.com"
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
" We like wow the way it is " is not an arguement. I realize wow is not sandbox and never will be I am simply stating that it is one of the elements that make certain groups not want to play wow, I mean there's a reason people play underground mmos like A tale in the Desert where all there are are sandbox elements, theres also a reason a game like DF will have a certain fanbase because of the sandbox/pvp element the game is offering, I don't know if it can deliver it yet honestly but you get the idea.
Then there are other reasons since were getting back on track here, what about the days of GM content, a more active world, don't know about you but I think all those bored guys leveiing lowbie alts in Xroads could do with a refreshing change of scenery, maybe an npc town raid or something, special mob hunts all kinds of stuff. If you remember or ever played UO there was other things to do besideds raid and quest, which is the general makeup of WoW.
But it's all valid in the arguement of questioning why wow is such a low ranking on these forums, hey even saying the fourms are full of wow haters is at least relevant, I can even vouch for that.
(Highlighted Text)
You're not looking for an argument, you're looking for agreement. Both Templarga and I posted replies to your comment, which you tossed-out as off-topic. Again, let me know if you need further clarification.
As to the remainder ...
Blizzard has had interactive events; the latest being the zombie raids leading up to WotLK's release. That's not to mention recurring events, like the fishing tournament in STV and Darkmoon Fair. Would I like more, sure, but that's not to say such events are non-existant.
And, there are rare world elites to hunt, such as the Dragons of Nightmare. I've taken numerous breaks from questing to search these out. Again, would I like more, sure.
I was waiting for you to bring that up, zombie raids. Sure it was a fun one time event. Fishing is once a week but not that exiting, most use for that is the Twink fishermans cap, not much else use. All of WoW events are once a year and hardy can be called daily content. The only exeption being Darkmoon Fair but thats once a month and more of a reprieve from that game rather than part of it.
But as it stands the events are not really exiting or for that matter really events in a true sense of the word, Brewfest may have been the closest thing we had to one, but it's still once a year, and last year they ruined it for everyone.
But all your really saying is " you like wow the way it is" again and delivering nothing to the topic.
Lol cripes dude, you take counter points to your own argument and toss them out as 'off topic'.
But I'll reply to your comments none-the-less ...
Almost every month has an event, the current one being the Lunar Festival. Ad-hoc events do occur, but less frequently; and, I don't know too many games that have such on a regular basis any how. You may find them useless or void of fun, but others clearly don't. The fact is though, divorced from personal opinion, Blizzard implements both regular and ad-hoc events as you called out in the prior post.
Let's be realistic Blizzard in game " events " are hardly challenging. Like I said they are a mere distraction from the game itself rather than a living part of it. But then again personal opinion is relevant in this Topic since it's not about the great things about WoW but WoWs shortcomings.
Maybe if you had played a game with Live events or GM moderated/created events you would know what I'm talking about, but I have a feeling your coming from a WoW only background. But the so called wow events aren't events in the truest sense of the word but merely incoded in the game to appear at a certain time and be gone, no player interaction required, again, Brewfest is maybe an exeption with the evil Dwarves and all, but even it is very mild and not totally engrossing, and still totally predictable.
Then again I'm just re explaining myself since all your doing is defending wow, Again just aiming at the reasons wow is soo unpopular here.
Again, you're only looking for agreement to your comments. You've no interest in debating or seeing counter arguments to your own points lol.
In your world if someone makes a post 'all the bad things about WoW', you won't allow any defense of those 'things'. You're either incapable of accepting those points or plain ignorant (something you've repeatedly demonstrated).
Your original position was that WoW had niether had an interactive world (events) or special mobs to hunt. I gave you examples of both, which you blithely tossed-out as 'off-topic'.
I make no allusion that WoW is perfect, but if someone posts lies or ingorant comments they can expect a retort. I'm sorry you seem incapable of understanding what a discussion board is about.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I'm just wondering if wow is number 21 who's number 1, I mean wow has the biggest number of ppl, it's pretty old now but the new expansion is awesome, how do u compare one mmorpg to the other? u kinda can't britney mcdonalds, now I get it
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Just because so many gamers don't know any better is no justification over what is better.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone not voting for wow is a hater, multi-account-user, of course
Yeh I admit the wow lovers are coming out in droves with the ( new defense) that because wow is BAD that wow is actually good.
Of course most of them don't have single reason why WoW is ranked so low here, just more wow defense with no reason what so ever.
While the sarcasm is duely noted and well stated, this site attracts burned out players looking for new mmos. Just look at how many people here blame WoW for ruining the entire market and you see that there is some truth behind your words.
Like it or not, most of the other 20 games above wow are dying. Some faster than others, but most are on the decline and have been so for a while now. This site doesn't attract players from games that are content and happy with what they are playing. It attracts people that are looking for a new game.
Just looking at the top 20 list of released games I see roughly 5 that are either being shut down, gone bankrupt or been sold as some sort of liquidated asset. 30 out of the top 33 games overall are not even released yet, because people are hoping for better games.
What does that tell about the "rankings" at this site and what people value here?