If there isn't going to be global, faction, zone (think Continent size or the area a kingdom holds) chat then traveling should be quick in order to get to social hubs faster, or the distance between the major kingdom should be relatively short. I would hate to be exploring the world (since its huge doing so should be entertaining) get bored and then spend another 3hrs getting back to hub I just left, or have to walk another hour to another 1hr to the next time.
Its possible that the reason global chat isn't going to be in the game is to help reduce lag (games have this with global chat system for a time), or the built in IRC system.
With or with out a global chat I'll be playing this game either way, it will just be a minor annoyance to get over.
P.S. I'm playing AoC and have been playing it since launch, global chat there has its pros and cons. Of the pros, the one thats unique to AoC is the ability to get people to show up to fights that are waning. What I mean by this is say you and a few friends are PvPing in an area, got a lot of good fights, but completely dominated everyone there so the peopel start to leave. Your group then gets on global chat and yell "We have taken over the area just come try to stop us" This usually results in a good size group coming in to fight you. The cons have been stated, the kiddies and asshats spew their filth on it from time to time, but its funny seeing two guild do it to each other.
I still stand by the point that I was trying to make though, which wasn't covered in your post: Removing Global/Regional Chat will create an environment where players will search for each other, form trade/meeting areas and come together avatar to avatar. This leads to more interaction between strangers, which makes the game more enjoyable.
No, it won't.
It will cause almost all association to occur OUT of the game, on guild recruting boards and in forums, because that's the only way people can find each other reasonably. It will make recruiting for expeditions nigh-impossible, unless people want to sit around in cities doing nothing until someone manages to form up a group (difficult to do with massive 'local' spam -- did you ever try to have a conversation at the bank of Britain before they introduced vendors?)
If your theory were correct, then Warhammer Online would have seen this behavior occurring -- it didn't. Instead, everyone complained the game was "empty" and that they "couldn't find anyone" -- and that was with chat which was Chapter wide, never mind just local.
Lack of global chat gives a tremendous advantage to guilds, beyond the advantages already given due to size and mutual cooperation. It also grants advantages to any group of players who have real-world contacts and have set up teamspeak, or even IMs, between themselves. Basically, it screws over anyone who wants to play the game without using external tools -- and if you need a secondary program to play the game, the game is badly designed.
Warhammer started withouth global/regional chat channels, didn't it? Of course they soon had to add it due to player demand. Darkfall will do the same. Nothing to worry about.
The absence of those chats makes this alot more realistic if you ask me and I love it. Plus I hate games like WOW where everywhere you go you have spam rattling off non-stop about chuck norris. When your out in the wilderness alone... you SHOULD be alone
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
I was reading on the darkfall forums, and I stumbled upon this thread: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=93973 I thought it was a kinda interesting thread, so I read through a few pages until I eventually got to a post from a darkfall moderator: "This might help. Quote:
"We've limited global chat channels compared to many other games, but guild chat is something we simply can not remove for many reasons, one of the more important being that we see it as an effort to level the playing field between people who use 3rd party communications, and those that don’t use them. Guild and group chat are the only global chat channels we have. We also have single recipient /tell PMs."" ---------- Yes, this means NO local chat, NO regional chat, NO trade chat, NO yell chat, NO broadcast chat, NO chat at all EXCEPT Guild, Group, and PM. Personally this is a HUGE turnoff. If this is actually true, my hype meter for this game went from a 30 of 10 to a 6 of 10. Without the chat options that they're leaving out, the game will likely feel like a single player. I likely will never hear from that one kid I pk'd, i'll never hear people selling items, i'll never hear random idiot spammers. While some of those things may be annoying at times, they're (IMO) a crucial part to the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER aspect of an MMORPG. Just curious to hear your thoughts on this.
i read those and i have no idea how you got "NO CHAT EXCEPT FOR GUILD A ND PMs"
they just said they limited it not completely removed all chat you idiot they have all those and they have a forum type thing you can bring up in game and find trades and such
Originally posted by makervsm Amazing post. You, like many supporters of Global Chat, have the same valid reasoning for said feature. I still stand by the point that I was trying to make though, which wasn't covered in your post: Removing Global/Regional Chat will create an environment where players will search for each other, form trade/meeting areas and come together avatar to avatar. This leads to more interaction between strangers, which makes the game more enjoyable.
Imagine in a conventional MMO, when someone has a question and they are out adventuring, they simply ask their question in chat and receive their answer from someone, then both people and any observers carry on their way. Now imagine without this long range chat, the player will search for other players to answer their question. After finding some players who may or may not have the answer, they start to talk, decide to go on an adventure, on observer in close proximity asks to join, or maybe he finds someone but they are being attacked by a ferocious monster and the player decides to help him. The likelyhood of this happening on accident is much higher with this kind of system and it is truly a great experience because it's so unexpected.
A had many experiences like this in UO (no global/regional) chat. I remember one time (keep in mind I was 14...ish), before I could tame horses, someone had abandoned their horse on the side of the road by the cave I mined frequently. I decided to try and tame it, give it apples and crap to gain its favor. I would come back every hour or so and try again (because I didn't understand taming). One time I came back and found the horse being attacked by a giant Ettin. I rushed to the horses rescue, hoping it would favor me once I had defeated the Ettin, but there was no way my miner could take down that ettin. I struggled for a long time, eventually ran out of stamina, the horse died and I was going to die. I had no way to contact anyone, no way to escape... Out of nowhere, some dude walks on by, sees me there fighting for my life and jumps in to save me. It was one of the most awesome MMO experiences I've ever had. I think the pleasant surprise was what I liked about it so much. It was unpredictable. If I had global chat to shout out for help, it would've been an okay experience, but not nearly as exciting.
Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to make a point.
I can understand that you want to retrieve the atmosphere that you had while playing UO (I played that game for less than a month, way back then, so I can't comment on it).
But the problem is that we can't turn the clock back to 1997 even though we might want to. Playing techniques, graphics, options, and the political balance inside games have developed to such an extent that we can't go back to that time as far as MMO's are concerned. It's arguable whether a game like 1997's UO, with the same features and nothing more, would even have succeeded had it been released today.
Some changes don't mean much -- Tetris with better graphics is still Tetris. But others have completely changed the way games are played. Consider voice chat. Back in the late 90's, headsets were still the tools of techies and maybe stock brokers, not gamers, let alone casual gamers. Most people had internet access via dialup, and bandwidth was not nearly sufficient to carry voice chat, especially with an online game running at the same time.
The other thing is that with UO being a trailblazer, you didn't have today's phenomenon of pre-formed guilds starting to play new games with rosters of hundreds of players that joined over the years in previous games. Sure, you might have started playing UO with a few people you knew, real-life friends and perhaps relatives, but you didn't have this concept of complete strangers who never met each other face-to-face all coming together to join a game on the first day it goes live. Certainly I've met people online and we've jumped from game to game, and I wouldn't want to be forced by a developer to break those earlier ties just for the sake of making a new game competitive (though at most we're half a dozen, so we're not exactly of game-wrecking proportions). But at the same time, let's not cater to those large groups at the expense of everything else. And based on what I read on this forum, Aventurine seems to be doing exactly that, at the expense of casual players, and even of certain competitive PvPers.
Once you start telling people that only large guilds can hope to achieve anything in this game (while ordinary players are either cannon fodder for the major players, or forced to join those large guilds as no-consideration lowest-level peons), and that in the end it's purely a case of "largest zergball wins", you're basically saying you don't want ordinary players in this game, and you're forced to rely on the most fickle of gaming demographics as your player core. Then they will betray you at the first opportunity, and then will blame you and your game for their betrayal.
I too despair at what I can read in general chat, whether it's the racist stuff, the gold seller spam or just the latest Chuck Norris joke. Best thing you could do, in my opinion, is slap a big "OOC" on it (as Conan did) and encourage people to use it strictly for out-of-character considerations. I know it's quite futile to expect all players to abide by this, especially if you can gain a strategic advantage by breaking the rules, but I don't think getting rid of a general channel is the ideal thing to do to prevent it. Guilds would still get around it with their own channel, and if that were taken away as well, by using Vent. A luxury which small groups and unaffiliated players wouldn't have, or couldn't use to their advantage.
If it were a large-budget game, I'd perhaps expect GM's to keep track of what is said on a general chat channel and take action when players don't respect the rules -- but when even Blizzard can't do it, how can I expect an upstart company like Aventurine to hire people to monitor their own game's chat?
I wish -- just wish -- it were possible to do away with global chat, but I know it can't be done without conferring a huge advantage upon large guilds, which is the last thing I want. Global chat is unrealistic and takes away an element of strategic gameplay I would love to see in a game (forcing players to rely on incomplete, unreliable and perhaps outdated information), and I would take away both global general and global guild chats -- but I know it can't be done since Vent and other metagaming methods prevent this anyway.
I have seen several different chat channel methods, and the most convoluted I've seen was Pirates of the Burning Sea. First, it had no global general channel, not even within nations. All it had were regional national channels (if you were French in Louisiana, you could only see the French Louisiana local chat, you couldn't see the English Louisiana chat -- not even as gibberish -- and you couldn't see the French Florida chat). However, there were also "Local" and "Area" chats, where you could see the other nation's players talking (and which you could understand with the diplomacy skill), but they were far more limited geographically than regional nation chat. However, there were a few chat channels without geographical limitation whatsoever -- "Society" (guild), Group, and interestingly two class-based channels, Conquest (in which only Naval Officers of a nation could type but which the entire nation could read) and Trade (which only Freetraders could read and type in). Did it work? Not really. Any strategic aspect was not only taken away by the Society channel, but it led to Naval Officers barking strategy orders to the rest of the nation using the Conquest channel, the one truly universal channel which everyone in the nation could read wherever they were. And behind all that, nations quickly set up nation-wide Vent channels anyway, bypassing all those carefully crafted limitations. But at least in that case, all players of a nation could work together, and you started out in the game by choosing one. Here? No. Outside of a guild, you're on your own.
personally, for the last year I played WoW, I turned off all the global chat channels. I got sick of the spam. it became difficult to read certain channels because of the spam just repeated over and over again. constant debates over whether an item was BOP or not--among other stupid arguments--I am not denying that global chat channels have their uses, but I feel that those uses have been abused by the spammers so much that I can deal without those channels. I know my opinion may not be the same as some others. Without trying to brag I started playing MMORPGs back when EQ first went live. I've also done DAOC, pre-cu SWG, DDO, EQ2 and finally WoW. WoW has certainly changed my opinion for the global chat channels. I am personally looking forward to darkfall, but I am not so much a zealot that I do not acknowledge the possibility of darkfall falling short of my expectations.
Honestly? What MMO have you played that was anywhere near the scale that this game's supposed to be in which all chat was absent except pm's and guild chat?
Go ahead... Take your time
You are talking utter rubbish, you're facts about chat are totally wrong you seem to be listening to the miss information that is spouted here. One reason I don't bother much with this site anymore.
Your soundbyte may sound good but having played MMOs where communities built around local chat only because of a need to play local it makes a big difference to the game longevity and a need to stick together for survival. Something i don't expect you to understand based on youre comment above you have never experienced real community in a game. And we aren't talking guilds her just community.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Ventrilo and Forums makes the same stuff as Global chat only ingame therefor not having it wont make a difference.
Ventrilo is a good alternative to: /Guild /party /raid. - its nowhere near the same shit as /global, not even like /local /yeall /say /fart
I dont want forums ingame from a competetive game like DF - its a spamfest of arguing and bickering, we want all that trash talk to stay on the forums, thats where it belongs. This is what many of us feel is a major CON to global chats. The bigger the chat, the more of forum-epidemia you will see.
Warhammer needed Global and becouse of that you say DF will to.
Warhammaer was a FvF game, the global channels where only accessable by the same faction, that means mostely by players that where on the same team/alliance/guild. There is little competition amongst the same team compared, hence alot less bickering and smacktalking.
Warhammer needed Global chats, it was essentiel to make a FvF zerg game work!
P.S again im not saying its the best of all choices to not have globals - im just arguing that global chat isn't the best thing that happened since slice bread, couse games like AoC prooves that it wasnt.
And to the "complete idiots" who thinks global chats is the "new" modern improved chat - holy crap... global chats are as old as the non global chat systems - but back then DEVs realized that there was more then 1 option that was the best and choose the one that fit there game best! - these days its just hmm WoW did this... ok guys we got the basic layout, paint it green and go!.
Sorry for using harsh words there for a second.
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
A hint for all your WoW generation players (around 98% of this forum's total users, I'd say): google "Ultima Online".
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
The absence of those chats makes this alot more realistic if you ask me and I love it. Plus I hate games like WOW where everywhere you go you have spam rattling off non-stop about chuck norris. When your out in the wilderness alone... you SHOULD be alone
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
The absence of those chats makes this alot more realistic if you ask me and I love it. Plus I hate games like WOW where everywhere you go you have spam rattling off non-stop about chuck norris. When your out in the wilderness alone... you SHOULD be alone
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
Did you said "mage class" associated with a level ?
You should know we are very picky about that stuff...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
Did you said "mage class" associated with a level ?
You should know we are very picky about that stuff...
come one don't get technical you know i was joking lol... but seriously i can see both sides to the argument of global chat, however leaning more towards the "no global" chat argument...
The absence of those chats makes this alot more realistic if you ask me and I love it. Plus I hate games like WOW where everywhere you go you have spam rattling off non-stop about chuck norris. When your out in the wilderness alone... you SHOULD be alone
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask?
Certain locations will come to be known as social hubs, where people go to find groups, trade, look for guilds to join etc. If you wanted to group for something and there was no one around... you would walk your butt to the nearest village/city, where everyone else who wanted to do the same thing will go.
In games with global chat, cities are hollow and pointless except as a dropoff point for people to dump their shit and pick up 5 different versions of 'kill 10 boars' quests. Without global chat, cities take on a much deeper and more immersive role as the place to go for finding other people for many different reasons, grouping, talking, trading, or killing. All the types of places that would be deserted in global chat enabled WoW clones become major centers of activity, because without instant long distance communication, people gravitate towards common areas.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
God I really wonder if you guys ever heard of Ultima Online.
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
i've made a few suggestions on a previous post here for a solution to have global chat that would not be ruined by racial spying... but it seems people skip over those posts and click "Last" ... but the point is moot... complain all you want, DF will not have global so why even discuss this here? What will that change when DF is released?
Originally posted by HensenLiros God I really wonder if you guys ever heard of Ultima Online.
Knowing about it and thinking it used mechanics that were appropriate for a game are very different things.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Ok, I'm waaaay too carebear for this game, but I saw the subject and thought I should say that for a hardcore PvP game it's ideal.
Hardcore PvPers deserve their own game that doesn't compromise. The atmosphere they're trying to acheive will work far better without someone spamming 'xxxx is ganking people near the bridge!!1!'
I really hope this game works out for you PvP people
If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask?
Certain locations will come to be known as social hubs, where people go to find groups, trade, look for guilds to join etc. If you wanted to group for something and there was no one around... you would walk your butt to the nearest village/city, where everyone else who wanted to do the same thing will go.
In games with global chat, cities are hollow and pointless except as a dropoff point for people to dump their shit and pick up 5 different versions of 'kill 10 boars' quests. Without global chat, cities take on a much deeper and more immersive role as the place to go for finding other people for many different reasons, grouping, talking, trading, or killing. All the types of places that would be deserted in global chat enabled WoW clones become major centers of activity, because without instant long distance communication, people gravitate towards common areas.
Sigh mmoers these days are so spoiled hahaha... yes you actually have to try to get a grp now... just like back in the day
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
If it's so stupid why do most followers of DF seem to prefer it?? Guess what... not having global chat doesnt make it a simulator... but nice try. Its just as much a game with global chat then it is without it.. thats why its called MMO.
Would only annoy the spoiled mmoers of today who dont like to play the mmo just like to be given everything until they hit max level.
Comments
If there isn't going to be global, faction, zone (think Continent size or the area a kingdom holds) chat then traveling should be quick in order to get to social hubs faster, or the distance between the major kingdom should be relatively short. I would hate to be exploring the world (since its huge doing so should be entertaining) get bored and then spend another 3hrs getting back to hub I just left, or have to walk another hour to another 1hr to the next time.
Its possible that the reason global chat isn't going to be in the game is to help reduce lag (games have this with global chat system for a time), or the built in IRC system.
With or with out a global chat I'll be playing this game either way, it will just be a minor annoyance to get over.
P.S. I'm playing AoC and have been playing it since launch, global chat there has its pros and cons. Of the pros, the one thats unique to AoC is the ability to get people to show up to fights that are waning. What I mean by this is say you and a few friends are PvPing in an area, got a lot of good fights, but completely dominated everyone there so the peopel start to leave. Your group then gets on global chat and yell "We have taken over the area just come try to stop us" This usually results in a good size group coming in to fight you. The cons have been stated, the kiddies and asshats spew their filth on it from time to time, but its funny seeing two guild do it to each other.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
No, it won't.
It will cause almost all association to occur OUT of the game, on guild recruting boards and in forums, because that's the only way people can find each other reasonably. It will make recruiting for expeditions nigh-impossible, unless people want to sit around in cities doing nothing until someone manages to form up a group (difficult to do with massive 'local' spam -- did you ever try to have a conversation at the bank of Britain before they introduced vendors?)
If your theory were correct, then Warhammer Online would have seen this behavior occurring -- it didn't. Instead, everyone complained the game was "empty" and that they "couldn't find anyone" -- and that was with chat which was Chapter wide, never mind just local.
Lack of global chat gives a tremendous advantage to guilds, beyond the advantages already given due to size and mutual cooperation. It also grants advantages to any group of players who have real-world contacts and have set up teamspeak, or even IMs, between themselves. Basically, it screws over anyone who wants to play the game without using external tools -- and if you need a secondary program to play the game, the game is badly designed.
Warhammer started withouth global/regional chat channels, didn't it? Of course they soon had to add it due to player demand. Darkfall will do the same. Nothing to worry about.
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
i read those and i have no idea how you got "NO CHAT EXCEPT FOR GUILD A ND PMs"
they just said they limited it not completely removed all chat you idiot they have all those and they have a forum type thing you can bring up in game and find trades and such
I can understand that you want to retrieve the atmosphere that you had while playing UO (I played that game for less than a month, way back then, so I can't comment on it).
But the problem is that we can't turn the clock back to 1997 even though we might want to. Playing techniques, graphics, options, and the political balance inside games have developed to such an extent that we can't go back to that time as far as MMO's are concerned. It's arguable whether a game like 1997's UO, with the same features and nothing more, would even have succeeded had it been released today.
Some changes don't mean much -- Tetris with better graphics is still Tetris. But others have completely changed the way games are played. Consider voice chat. Back in the late 90's, headsets were still the tools of techies and maybe stock brokers, not gamers, let alone casual gamers. Most people had internet access via dialup, and bandwidth was not nearly sufficient to carry voice chat, especially with an online game running at the same time.
The other thing is that with UO being a trailblazer, you didn't have today's phenomenon of pre-formed guilds starting to play new games with rosters of hundreds of players that joined over the years in previous games. Sure, you might have started playing UO with a few people you knew, real-life friends and perhaps relatives, but you didn't have this concept of complete strangers who never met each other face-to-face all coming together to join a game on the first day it goes live. Certainly I've met people online and we've jumped from game to game, and I wouldn't want to be forced by a developer to break those earlier ties just for the sake of making a new game competitive (though at most we're half a dozen, so we're not exactly of game-wrecking proportions). But at the same time, let's not cater to those large groups at the expense of everything else. And based on what I read on this forum, Aventurine seems to be doing exactly that, at the expense of casual players, and even of certain competitive PvPers.
Once you start telling people that only large guilds can hope to achieve anything in this game (while ordinary players are either cannon fodder for the major players, or forced to join those large guilds as no-consideration lowest-level peons), and that in the end it's purely a case of "largest zergball wins", you're basically saying you don't want ordinary players in this game, and you're forced to rely on the most fickle of gaming demographics as your player core. Then they will betray you at the first opportunity, and then will blame you and your game for their betrayal.
I too despair at what I can read in general chat, whether it's the racist stuff, the gold seller spam or just the latest Chuck Norris joke. Best thing you could do, in my opinion, is slap a big "OOC" on it (as Conan did) and encourage people to use it strictly for out-of-character considerations. I know it's quite futile to expect all players to abide by this, especially if you can gain a strategic advantage by breaking the rules, but I don't think getting rid of a general channel is the ideal thing to do to prevent it. Guilds would still get around it with their own channel, and if that were taken away as well, by using Vent. A luxury which small groups and unaffiliated players wouldn't have, or couldn't use to their advantage.
If it were a large-budget game, I'd perhaps expect GM's to keep track of what is said on a general chat channel and take action when players don't respect the rules -- but when even Blizzard can't do it, how can I expect an upstart company like Aventurine to hire people to monitor their own game's chat?
I wish -- just wish -- it were possible to do away with global chat, but I know it can't be done without conferring a huge advantage upon large guilds, which is the last thing I want. Global chat is unrealistic and takes away an element of strategic gameplay I would love to see in a game (forcing players to rely on incomplete, unreliable and perhaps outdated information), and I would take away both global general and global guild chats -- but I know it can't be done since Vent and other metagaming methods prevent this anyway.
I have seen several different chat channel methods, and the most convoluted I've seen was Pirates of the Burning Sea. First, it had no global general channel, not even within nations. All it had were regional national channels (if you were French in Louisiana, you could only see the French Louisiana local chat, you couldn't see the English Louisiana chat -- not even as gibberish -- and you couldn't see the French Florida chat). However, there were also "Local" and "Area" chats, where you could see the other nation's players talking (and which you could understand with the diplomacy skill), but they were far more limited geographically than regional nation chat. However, there were a few chat channels without geographical limitation whatsoever -- "Society" (guild), Group, and interestingly two class-based channels, Conquest (in which only Naval Officers of a nation could type but which the entire nation could read) and Trade (which only Freetraders could read and type in). Did it work? Not really. Any strategic aspect was not only taken away by the Society channel, but it led to Naval Officers barking strategy orders to the rest of the nation using the Conquest channel, the one truly universal channel which everyone in the nation could read wherever they were. And behind all that, nations quickly set up nation-wide Vent channels anyway, bypassing all those carefully crafted limitations. But at least in that case, all players of a nation could work together, and you started out in the game by choosing one. Here? No. Outside of a guild, you're on your own.
personally, for the last year I played WoW, I turned off all the global chat channels. I got sick of the spam. it became difficult to read certain channels because of the spam just repeated over and over again. constant debates over whether an item was BOP or not--among other stupid arguments--I am not denying that global chat channels have their uses, but I feel that those uses have been abused by the spammers so much that I can deal without those channels. I know my opinion may not be the same as some others. Without trying to brag I started playing MMORPGs back when EQ first went live. I've also done DAOC, pre-cu SWG, DDO, EQ2 and finally WoW. WoW has certainly changed my opinion for the global chat channels. I am personally looking forward to darkfall, but I am not so much a zealot that I do not acknowledge the possibility of darkfall falling short of my expectations.
Honestly? What MMO have you played that was anywhere near the scale that this game's supposed to be in which all chat was absent except pm's and guild chat?
Go ahead... Take your time
You are talking utter rubbish, you're facts about chat are totally wrong you seem to be listening to the miss information that is spouted here. One reason I don't bother much with this site anymore.
Your soundbyte may sound good but having played MMOs where communities built around local chat only because of a need to play local it makes a big difference to the game longevity and a need to stick together for survival. Something i don't expect you to understand based on youre comment above you have never experienced real community in a game. And we aren't talking guilds her just community.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
This is to the general ppl who argue:
Ventrilo and Forums makes the same stuff as Global chat only ingame therefor not having it wont make a difference.
Ventrilo is a good alternative to: /Guild /party /raid. - its nowhere near the same shit as /global, not even like /local /yeall /say /fart
I dont want forums ingame from a competetive game like DF - its a spamfest of arguing and bickering, we want all that trash talk to stay on the forums, thats where it belongs. This is what many of us feel is a major CON to global chats. The bigger the chat, the more of forum-epidemia you will see.
Warhammer needed Global and becouse of that you say DF will to.
Warhammaer was a FvF game, the global channels where only accessable by the same faction, that means mostely by players that where on the same team/alliance/guild. There is little competition amongst the same team compared, hence alot less bickering and smacktalking.
Warhammer needed Global chats, it was essentiel to make a FvF zerg game work!
P.S again im not saying its the best of all choices to not have globals - im just arguing that global chat isn't the best thing that happened since slice bread, couse games like AoC prooves that it wasnt.
And to the "complete idiots" who thinks global chats is the "new" modern improved chat - holy crap... global chats are as old as the non global chat systems - but back then DEVs realized that there was more then 1 option that was the best and choose the one that fit there game best! - these days its just hmm WoW did this... ok guys we got the basic layout, paint it green and go!.
Sorry for using harsh words there for a second.
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
A hint for all your WoW generation players (around 98% of this forum's total users, I'd say): google "Ultima Online".
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
No global chat? Thats fucking stupid
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
Did you said "mage class" associated with a level ?
You should know we are very picky about that stuff...
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
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Only to a carebear
Did you said "mage class" associated with a level ?
You should know we are very picky about that stuff...
come one don't get technical you know i was joking lol... but seriously i can see both sides to the argument of global chat, however leaning more towards the "no global" chat argument...
But its an mmo so you wont be alone. They should add the chat. If you wanted a grp for something and there was no one around how the hell would you ask? And if you dont want to be in chat they should have a way to leave it.
Edit: Ok so i just read there is a say and yell and even possibly local channels. If thats the case then global chat is not necessary
Horrible logic.... so when your alone in your room your not really alone because other people exist on earth????
They shouldnt add global chat we dont need this game WOWerized.
I agree when your ALONE in the wilderness you should truly be alone not chatting with half the continent
unless you're a mage class that has "Global Telepathy" skill... but they should only award that at lvl 50 :P
agreed
Certain locations will come to be known as social hubs, where people go to find groups, trade, look for guilds to join etc. If you wanted to group for something and there was no one around... you would walk your butt to the nearest village/city, where everyone else who wanted to do the same thing will go.
In games with global chat, cities are hollow and pointless except as a dropoff point for people to dump their shit and pick up 5 different versions of 'kill 10 boars' quests. Without global chat, cities take on a much deeper and more immersive role as the place to go for finding other people for many different reasons, grouping, talking, trading, or killing. All the types of places that would be deserted in global chat enabled WoW clones become major centers of activity, because without instant long distance communication, people gravitate towards common areas.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
God I really wonder if you guys ever heard of Ultima Online.
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
Only to a carebear
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
i've made a few suggestions on a previous post here for a solution to have global chat that would not be ruined by racial spying... but it seems people skip over those posts and click "Last" ... but the point is moot... complain all you want, DF will not have global so why even discuss this here? What will that change when DF is released?
Knowing about it and thinking it used mechanics that were appropriate for a game are very different things.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Ok, I'm waaaay too carebear for this game, but I saw the subject and thought I should say that for a hardcore PvP game it's ideal.
Hardcore PvPers deserve their own game that doesn't compromise. The atmosphere they're trying to acheive will work far better without someone spamming 'xxxx is ganking people near the bridge!!1!'
I really hope this game works out for you PvP people
Certain locations will come to be known as social hubs, where people go to find groups, trade, look for guilds to join etc. If you wanted to group for something and there was no one around... you would walk your butt to the nearest village/city, where everyone else who wanted to do the same thing will go.
In games with global chat, cities are hollow and pointless except as a dropoff point for people to dump their shit and pick up 5 different versions of 'kill 10 boars' quests. Without global chat, cities take on a much deeper and more immersive role as the place to go for finding other people for many different reasons, grouping, talking, trading, or killing. All the types of places that would be deserted in global chat enabled WoW clones become major centers of activity, because without instant long distance communication, people gravitate towards common areas.
Sigh mmoers these days are so spoiled hahaha... yes you actually have to try to get a grp now... just like back in the day
Only to a carebear
No, it's pretty much stupid in every way for a game. As someone else said before, it is a game, not a simulator. It's called MMO for a reason.
That said, I can't think of a way in which it actually would harm gameplay in any serious way. It would just annoy people.
Edit: I can't talk.
If it's so stupid why do most followers of DF seem to prefer it?? Guess what... not having global chat doesnt make it a simulator... but nice try. Its just as much a game with global chat then it is without it.. thats why its called MMO.
Would only annoy the spoiled mmoers of today who dont like to play the mmo just like to be given everything until they hit max level.
kthxbai