This mentality has been the root problem of PC gaming for far to long, specifically mmos.
Paying money to a company for a half finished, untested poorly designed game doesn't do the market any good. It doesn't send a positive message and somehow inspire other companies to raise the bar. What it does is tell companies they can serve whatever plate of cold turds they can push out with their given budget and people will not only buy it, but empower themselves to defend it for the greater good.
PC gaming only deserves to live if the game makers can get their act together and make better games. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to pay money for a sub par product. That is the exact reason one game came in and not only stole nearly the entire market, but also brought in more players than just about everyone else combined (including people who had given up on the market).
This mentality has been the root problem of PC gaming for far to long, specifically mmos.
Paying money to a company for a half finished, untested poorly designed game doesn't do the market any good. It doesn't send a positive message and somehow inspire other companies to raise the bar. What it does is tell companies they can serve whatever plate of cold turds they can push out with their given budget and people will not only buy it, but empower themselves to defend it for the greater good.
PC gaming only deserves to live if the game makers can get their act together and make better games. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to pay money for a sub par product. That is the exact reason one game came in and not only stole nearly the entire market, but also brought in more players than just about everyone else combined (including people who had given up on the market).
The problem with this statement is that WoW wasn't perfect at launch. I seem to remember them completely scrapping Ironforge and having lag issues and CTDs just like every other MMO that I've played. Fanboys always think WoW is perfect, and right now it is VERY polished, but it's had a helluva long time to get to that point and countless patches and updates. WoW was NOT perfect at launch, sorry to break that news to you.
I turlly believe the largest factor is lack of established community.
How does a new game make one of these ... in a way you can't it takes time. Wow currenlty is a monster singly based on established community. (currently ober 1/2 of wow servers can raid but 2 out of the 7 nights ina week, because 25 man raid lag is that bad, they broke it in 3.0 4-5 months ago still not fixed, this combined with the adhoc pug easyness of all their 25 man raids well lagfeast).
Still one of the largest issues was the responsiveness of combat, i click my button nothing happends over and over. Still atm the micro managing of these systemis too hard. TRy to use rend soul to effective heal other targets while keeping dps and other heals up it truely is a nightmare.
And lastly its hella boaring. All the equip si the game same becuase instead of random item gen. they have gay awful planned itemization, where often level 30 item stay better than level 40 hard to get items.
I was a PQ master , infulence guru, etc. and often id have an item from 10 levels ago beating the blues and purps i was getting... stuiped. People play mmos to ADVANCE their characters. Honestly mythic should have made daoc 2, making it more like doac a few months after gold, with a ton more polish, but still the rawness of bg, old frontiers, pve exp GRIND (this is the only grind i never minded and the reason was becuase of the grouping nature and tons of areas to expore to do so [also the difficulty; want some exp kill a 3-5 pack of purples oh btw each pull is basicly a mini boss pull. its no longer this way really but once it was and that challenge made it fun ]).
So things to do make pqs easier, make questing harder, more open rvr systems made expand the maps. GET rid of segie pads dumbest thing EVER (lets make sure there never any variation on how the enemy attacks im sure this will keep no one happy). MAKE THE CLASSES DIFFERENT AD ANOTHER 1 TO EVERY FACTION (2 TO GREENSKINS AND DWARFS TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT THEY ARE MISSING). Oh and make then totally different from one another.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The only thing WoW has left is more people And even those people are moving to Warhammer now The best gamers want the best game and that's WAR 2009 is the year Warhammer is going to become the 10 million subs giant, and Warcraft is already dying, everyone is quitting that game
The only thing WoW has left is more people And even those people are moving to Warhammer now The best gamers want the best game and that's WAR 2009 is the year Warhammer is going to become the 10 million subs giant, and Warcraft is already dying, everyone is quitting that game
Dont think WAR has flopped but rather released too early, I like WAR and its concepts I like the lore and I like the graphics my guild had alot of fun, but the bugs and poor balance killed it for us(for now!), once RvR and sieges get balanced bugs get fixed, itemization reviewed and performance issues address, you can count on my guild to come back to WAR and enjoy it once more.
Dont think WAR has flopped but rather released too early, I like WAR and its concepts I like the lore and I like the graphics my guild had alot of fun, but the bugs and poor balance killed it for us(for now!), once RvR and sieges get balanced bugs get fixed, itemization reviewed and performance issues address, you can count on my guild to come back to WAR and enjoy it once more.
War hasn't flopped it's just the fanboi's are haveing unrealistic expectations, the game will never have millions of subs, what they should have looked at is how many subs DAOC had at it's height and add half to doulble what it had not the millions that Mythic and the Fanboi's where pulling out of thin air.
WAR is as far from 'flopping' as is WoW is of 'dieing', sure it's not in the 'millions' in 6 months, so? is it making profit? yes, so how has it 'failed' or 'flopped'?
Theres only two huge issues with WAR, it's huge amount of unnessery servers, and the lack of 'little things' pvp related at end game.. Roll the 40+ servers at both EU and US ends down to like 6-10..
add more 'to do' then currently a broken senario system that only makes you join the elf ones and somthing other then oRVR that requires a whole server side of Order players to come online to acally put up some sort of fight againest the 5-6 WBs of Destro players that are 'bored' cuz they own everything and drop on a zone simply because a keep is flagged and theres some form of pvp. Theres no 'little' pvp things that a group of 6 can do, like the early days of WoW WAR requres too many players to be online 'to do things'
Mythic and GoA seem to be on top of things so those should be sorted in time, WAR by the end of the year should realtically level out around 500k of subs if there isn't a mass exidos to WAR from a new release this year...
I agree. WAR hasn't flopped its just not easy enough for most WOW players (one button kills) to have that kind of population. The graphics also are not cartoon enough to draw the kids that can convince "Mommy and Daddy" to let them play. If you could get a hold of the number of WOW players over 21 you would be amazed about how many kids play. WAR is more for adults and takes thinking how to over throw your opponent. Not just "arcane spam" or "moonfire spam" them to death. WAR will never have the pop of WOW and that keeps the talented PVP people happy. The last thing I want is easy kills everywhere like in WOW. I don't know about everyone else but I like to be chalenged in PvP and remember the old days when PvP was based on skill and not the gear you have. WAR Gives us that. I want to see a lvl 70 take a lvl 80 in WOW. It will never happen (no matter how good you are) do to gear based crap. WAR I do that same thing all day.
They should merge the servers so that we can have more Open RvR going with the new gear that was just released. The WAR story line is awesome (Just like WOW's was in the begining).
I could never call WAR a "flop" seeing as it is a good, innovative game with a solid player base and good reviews. However one aspect that I am very dissapointed with is the war aspect in the sense that it is really not a war. Zones constantly flip flop from one side to another without any real consequences (beside some lame bonuses) so the feeling of victory or defeat really isnt there.
So I think that is the main reason this game is not all it could be. After doing XX scenarios and flip flipping zones a 50 times or so, people start to realise that the war is fake. It is basically just volleyball game with the ball (zones) being hit back and forth between the two teams.
A more "real" war would have consequences, albeit not so serious ones as in real life because it is a game after all, but still. You should lose something that you dont want to lose when you lose a zone and same for when you win. That just isnt the case.
This mentality has been the root problem of PC gaming for far to long, specifically mmos.
Paying money to a company for a half finished, untested poorly designed game doesn't do the market any good. It doesn't send a positive message and somehow inspire other companies to raise the bar. What it does is tell companies they can serve whatever plate of cold turds they can push out with their given budget and people will not only buy it, but empower themselves to defend it for the greater good.
PC gaming only deserves to live if the game makers can get their act together and make better games. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to pay money for a sub par product. That is the exact reason one game came in and not only stole nearly the entire market, but also brought in more players than just about everyone else combined (including people who had given up on the market).
The problem with this statement is that WoW wasn't perfect at launch. I seem to remember them completely scrapping Ironforge and having lag issues and CTDs just like every other MMO that I've played. Fanboys always think WoW is perfect, and right now it is VERY polished, but it's had a helluva long time to get to that point and countless patches and updates. WoW was NOT perfect at launch, sorry to break that news to you.
Who said WoW was perfect at launch? Lets not put words in my mouth and then pretend that I spoke them ok?
WoW was fun at launch. People waited in line just to log in for the chance to play. Sure it had technical issues. Part of them from network issues and part from the heavy loads from people trying to log in. Both easy problems to fix and they did get fixed.
Can the same be said for Warhammer? The game isn't some technical nightmare like the WoW launch and yet the majority of people left and they were merging servers within weeks of the game launching. The question is can they stem the losses and rebound? I doubt performance patches will work here since the major points people have center around core mechanics of the game.
What kind of silly comments. PvP in War? With that clunky, unresponsive and laggy game play. Come on....
War lacks the polish of Wow classes. As a matter of fact where ARE the talent settings of War?
Can I make a War class and fill in a tank, a healer and a full Dps class in ONE character please. No of course not. Wow is so much more powerful and polished than War is. In fact even comparing the two is a laugh.
War as a PvP game is the laughing stock of MMORPG's.
Now give me your personal mail and I will show you 3(!) recent screen shots of my level 70 character killing 3 different level 80's in a duel. OK mine was 80% brutal geared and those guys were "levelers", but one of them even was on Nax already. And no group intervened.
So skill primes gear in Wow.
Where are the rated PvP sets in War? , where is the balance? , what kind of silly game are you playing where lag and clunky combat moves are more important than skill?
Oh and since every Wow class is represented in the top world arena competitions, this is ample proof there is balance or else you wouldn't have all classes in that top.
There isn't even a duel mode in Warhammer, because dueling would be ridiculous in showing off just how much nonsens is put into that game.
What are you on about? PvP in WAR is very well done and here are the reasons why:
1) Tanks are useful in PvP because they can guard weaker classes and absorb dmg meant for them, they can also taunt other players and not just mobs, forcing them to either attack the tank or suffer extra damage. Furthermore tanks in WAR has excellent CC break abilities so they cant be perma-rooted like in other games out there.
2) Healers arent pushovers in PvP. With the sole exception of Witch Elves, Healers classes has high survivability in PvP which makes them more fun to play than in other games where they are automatically killed the first 5 seconds of any PvP encounter. Healers also have dmg capability and some CC capability which makes them more fun to play both in PvE and PvP.
3) CC isnt imbalancing as in other games because of so many CC break abilities but they still have some uses.
4) Battles can last long enough to be interesting. In other games you die so quickly that you can barely react but in WAR, with the Exception of glass cannons such as Sorcerors/BWs etc, most classes can live long enough to actually explore different tactics. Ofcourse focus fire will take you down quickly but that is hard to do anything about.
5) Innovative classes. In WAR there are many innovative class features that are not seen in most other games. Such as Bright Wizards building up combustion, Archmages has a synergic ability between dmg spells and healing spells, Swordmasters having different stances depending on what moves they have performed and many, many more.
6) Morale building during fights unlucks special abilities that can change the tide of the battle. Another innovative PvE and PvP feature.
7) PvP from level 1. In most games PvP is really only available after tedious PvE grinding but in WAR you can PvP basically from lvl 1-40. All you need to PvE is for gear and if you are playing an alt then you can buy gear.
The only reason why I dont think WAR is the PvP MMORPG out there is that the PvP is rather pointless. It is basically for getting exp, some gear and bonuses and eventually sacking the enemy city (which will reset after you are done anyway).
If they can manage to make PvP more meaningful then WAR would be the king of MMORPG PvP but right now it is already much more interesting than other PvE MMORPG with PvP as feature such as WoW because WAR is rather a PvP MMORPG with PvE features.
Yeah this is news to me as well. I was at my local Best Buy recently, and I was curious which games were selling. YOu can always tell which ones are selling by the number of boxes on the shelf.If a game isn't selling well, the retailers won't bother stocking it. If it's selling really well, then they'll continue to stock it and even add more.
When I got to the MMO aisle,WOW by far had the most.They could have just stuck a sign on the four rows and labeled it WOW country from all the boxes.WAR was second with a good number of boxes. Both games also had numerous of their respective strategy guides for sale. The only other MMO game that had more than a one box available was AOC. There was about four of those available.SWG and other flops only had their game cards available. The results are pretty much the same everywhere else I go.
Another consideration you are forgetting here is price.
I was in the Gamestop at a local mall and WoW had the most boxes, followed by Warhammer and then AoC as well. But one thing I noticed right off:
WoW was normal price for Lich King, AoC was normal price for that ($49) but Warhammer was selling for $29 a box.
This also is an indicator of how games are selling and what a retailer is trying to move out as well.
The problem with this statement is that WoW wasn't perfect at launch. I seem to remember them completely scrapping Ironforge and having lag issues and CTDs just like every other MMO that I've played. Fanboys always think WoW is perfect, and right now it is VERY polished, but it's had a helluva long time to get to that point and countless patches and updates. WoW was NOT perfect at launch, sorry to break that news to you.
And the problem with this is that even though it wasn't perfect on release, Wow was different and genre changing enough that MOST people who bought it stuck with it. It had low specs to run, simple to follow questlines, easy interface, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. We do know very few games are released perfect at launch but WoW didn't make people run for the hills because of this.
The reason WoW kept so many people is that is was different enough than anything out when released overall and that's why it continued to have a RISE in sales after release 3 and 4 months out. It wasn't dropping huge amounts of box sales.
Take Warhammer. There is nothing revolutionary about it or anything that would make most people sit through the beta fixing after release. Over 800k bought it on release, about 250k are playing now. The sales didn't stay steady are aren't rising so that anyone would notice. Warhammer was going in the other direction so fast, servers had to be taped up and patched together.
That's the difference when people keep comparing WoW and Warhammer releases. Most people recognized that Wow was a much better and different game and STUCK with it. They saw the potential in it and here we are 11 million subscriptions later.
Most people who played it saw Warhammer as about as good as it's gonna get and a rehash with little potential for good, stable endgame play and a rehash. A big rescrapping would have to take place for lots of things to work as intended and we all know Mythic isn't going to do that.
If you like Warhammer now, you'll like it later. If you didn't like it before, there isn't much hope they will fix what you didn't like about it.
Yeah this is news to me as well. I was at my local Best Buy recently, and I was curious which games were selling. YOu can always tell which ones are selling by the number of boxes on the shelf.If a game isn't selling well, the retailers won't bother stocking it. If it's selling really well, then they'll continue to stock it and even add more.
When I got to the MMO aisle,WOW by far had the most.They could have just stuck a sign on the four rows and labeled it WOW country from all the boxes.WAR was second with a good number of boxes. Both games also had numerous of their respective strategy guides for sale. The only other MMO game that had more than a one box available was AOC. There was about four of those available.SWG and other flops only had their game cards available. The results are pretty much the same everywhere else I go.
Another consideration you are forgetting here is price.
I was in the Gamestop at a local mall and WoW had the most boxes, followed by Warhammer and then AoC as well. But one thing I noticed right off:
WoW was normal price for Lich King, AoC was normal price for that ($49) but Warhammer was selling for $29 a box.
This also is an indicator of how games are selling and what a retailer is trying to move out as well.
I thought I was going to have to teach the 201 class but you got to it before me. Thanks
It flopped because it was released too early. People tried, got bored and left due to scenarios/lack of RvR.
It doesn't matter how good the game is now, MMOs have 1 chance to impress potential players. Mythic blew it and now they will have a 200-250k subs game instead of 1M+. One would have thought that Devs would learn lessons from Vanguard and AoC, but guess not.
They really over-estimated the fan response to the game right out of the gates.
Too many servers divided the opening day population and spread the numbers too thin. Players seeing less people will wait patiently for a few weeks then take off.
Mythic thought they'd get more people on day one and prepared for that. But instead of preparing the people committed to playing the game to possibly make an alternate server selection, they simply let people flood into the smallest corner.
Of course then comes server consolidation, and the meat-heads start screaming at the top of their lungs that the game has failed. It is too bad that all of these programming and marketing geniuses waste their time trolling boards.
Hi, What are your opinions about why Warhammer Online totally flopped? Okej, not "totally flopped" perhaps since it's still a big game compared to many other MMO's out there but still... It was allways this talking about "the WoW-killer" But what excactly happened along the way? The game seemed to be something extra, new ideas etc... Nowadays from the "WoW-killer" I mostly hear: -Houston, we got an empty server!
So, what happened?
I think it "flopped" because;
Scenario grinding + uneven sides = unhappiness.
Slow response to shrinking player base.
Let's face it, almost everyone scenario ran all day long. The much touted RvR system didnt really get going as a result.
Side balance was an issue. Alot of people chose Destruction, understandably as it just looked and felt much better and sadly had the better classes ( Witch Elves and TANKS ). Order seemed a bit wishy-washy. Elfs were men in skirts on the order side, the White Lion IMO just looked crap, BW looked insane and dwarfs are an aquired taste. The only good looking class on Order IMO was the Witch Hunter.
PvP matches became a game of CC spam and KB spam. Character customization was piss poor, I like to look different than atleast some other people if possible.
GOA were far to slow to merge servers in the EU. populations nose dived and many morer left as a result.
I play Order on Volkmar and used to play Destruction on Sylvania. Volkmar is pretty balanced when it comes to RvR, but Sylvania is completely and utterly ruled by Order. I don't see why anyone plays on that server on either side. It's demoralizing for Destruction and must be boring as hell for Order. I think Warhammer would do much better with merging a lot of servers and making the populations on them so large (and tweaking how many people can enter an RvR battle- or something along those lines), that imbalance is normally something that doesn't happen. I loved the game and would still love the game if it wasn't for the demoralizing ownage that happens when one side is insanely outnumbered or overpowered (a group of 30s has no chance against a group of well-equipped 40s, but is forced to play against them at times if they want something to do).
Since the last big patch RvR has become more important, which is good, but it has also become TOO important. There's no point in doing anything but getting renown and getting to lvl 40 so you can get more gear and more renown... no one PvEs anymore. A huge portion of the game- a portion where the game truly excelled due to public quests and an interesting world, basically became useless. Sure gold bags from public quests are still good, but will they ever match renown gear? Nope.
Side balance was an issue. Alot of people chose Destruction, understandably as it just looked and felt much better and sadly had the better classes ( Witch Elves and TANKS ). Order seemed a bit wishy-washy. Elfs were men in skirts on the order side, the White Lion IMO just looked crap, BW looked insane and dwarfs are an aquired taste. The only good looking class on Order IMO was the Witch Hunter.
I think this is a bigger issue than most people think. Vanity is a very strong force and if you look at the Order side with the Knight of the Blazing Sun being dwarfed by Black Orcs and Chosen, the elves wearing dresses instead of metal armor, Bright Wizards looking like a homeless person and who wants to play a midget? It is not strange that most people pick order because they simply look much cooler.
Then ofcourse I think they have the better classes as well. Witch Elves do their jobs much more efficiently than Witch Hunters and Black Orcs are one of the toughest classes out there (much more so than Ironbreakers imo).
Order needs a complete overhaul for people wanting to play them and adjusting a skill here and there just wont cut it. The elf males need to be redone to look like more like males and both the Bright Wizard and Knight of the Blazing Sun needs a major aestethical (spelling?) overhaul.
Bad marketing and release strategy. They really over-estimated the fan response to the game right out of the gates. Too many servers divided the opening day population and spread the numbers too thin. Players seeing less people will wait patiently for a few weeks then take off. Mythic thought they'd get more people on day one and prepared for that. But instead of preparing the people committed to playing the game to possibly make an alternate server selection, they simply let people flood into the smallest corner. Of course then comes server consolidation, and the meat-heads start screaming at the top of their lungs that the game has failed. It is too bad that all of these programming and marketing geniuses waste their time trolling boards.
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.
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I agree with you, wholeheartedly.
Which FF Character Are You?
The problem with this statement is that WoW wasn't perfect at launch. I seem to remember them completely scrapping Ironforge and having lag issues and CTDs just like every other MMO that I've played. Fanboys always think WoW is perfect, and right now it is VERY polished, but it's had a helluva long time to get to that point and countless patches and updates. WoW was NOT perfect at launch, sorry to break that news to you.
I turlly believe the largest factor is lack of established community.
How does a new game make one of these ... in a way you can't it takes time. Wow currenlty is a monster singly based on established community. (currently ober 1/2 of wow servers can raid but 2 out of the 7 nights ina week, because 25 man raid lag is that bad, they broke it in 3.0 4-5 months ago still not fixed, this combined with the adhoc pug easyness of all their 25 man raids well lagfeast).
Still one of the largest issues was the responsiveness of combat, i click my button nothing happends over and over. Still atm the micro managing of these systemis too hard. TRy to use rend soul to effective heal other targets while keeping dps and other heals up it truely is a nightmare.
And lastly its hella boaring. All the equip si the game same becuase instead of random item gen. they have gay awful planned itemization, where often level 30 item stay better than level 40 hard to get items.
I was a PQ master , infulence guru, etc. and often id have an item from 10 levels ago beating the blues and purps i was getting... stuiped. People play mmos to ADVANCE their characters. Honestly mythic should have made daoc 2, making it more like doac a few months after gold, with a ton more polish, but still the rawness of bg, old frontiers, pve exp GRIND (this is the only grind i never minded and the reason was becuase of the grouping nature and tons of areas to expore to do so [also the difficulty; want some exp kill a 3-5 pack of purples oh btw each pull is basicly a mini boss pull. its no longer this way really but once it was and that challenge made it fun ]).
So things to do make pqs easier, make questing harder, more open rvr systems made expand the maps. GET rid of segie pads dumbest thing EVER (lets make sure there never any variation on how the enemy attacks im sure this will keep no one happy). MAKE THE CLASSES DIFFERENT AD ANOTHER 1 TO EVERY FACTION (2 TO GREENSKINS AND DWARFS TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT THEY ARE MISSING). Oh and make then totally different from one another.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The only thing WoW has left is more people
And even those people are moving to Warhammer now
The best gamers want the best game and that's WAR
2009 is the year Warhammer is going to become the 10 million subs giant, and Warcraft is already dying, everyone is quitting that game
Ignorance is bliss, eh?
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Say wha?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i cant stop laughing.
Dont think WAR has flopped but rather released too early, I like WAR and its concepts I like the lore and I like the graphics my guild had alot of fun, but the bugs and poor balance killed it for us(for now!), once RvR and sieges get balanced bugs get fixed, itemization reviewed and performance issues address, you can count on my guild to come back to WAR and enjoy it once more.
War hasn't flopped it's just the fanboi's are haveing unrealistic expectations, the game will never have millions of subs, what they should have looked at is how many subs DAOC had at it's height and add half to doulble what it had not the millions that Mythic and the Fanboi's where pulling out of thin air.
WAR is as far from 'flopping' as is WoW is of 'dieing', sure it's not in the 'millions' in 6 months, so? is it making profit? yes, so how has it 'failed' or 'flopped'?
Theres only two huge issues with WAR, it's huge amount of unnessery servers, and the lack of 'little things' pvp related at end game.. Roll the 40+ servers at both EU and US ends down to like 6-10..
add more 'to do' then currently a broken senario system that only makes you join the elf ones and somthing other then oRVR that requires a whole server side of Order players to come online to acally put up some sort of fight againest the 5-6 WBs of Destro players that are 'bored' cuz they own everything and drop on a zone simply because a keep is flagged and theres some form of pvp. Theres no 'little' pvp things that a group of 6 can do, like the early days of WoW WAR requres too many players to be online 'to do things'
Mythic and GoA seem to be on top of things so those should be sorted in time, WAR by the end of the year should realtically level out around 500k of subs if there isn't a mass exidos to WAR from a new release this year...
That by no means means WAR is a flop
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
I agree. WAR hasn't flopped its just not easy enough for most WOW players (one button kills) to have that kind of population. The graphics also are not cartoon enough to draw the kids that can convince "Mommy and Daddy"
to let them play. If you could get a hold of the number of WOW players over 21 you would be amazed about how many kids play. WAR is more for adults and takes thinking how to over throw your opponent. Not just "arcane spam" or "moonfire spam" them to death. WAR will never have the pop of WOW and that keeps the talented PVP people happy. The last thing I want is easy kills everywhere like in WOW. I don't know about everyone else but I like to be chalenged in PvP and remember the old days when PvP was based on skill and not the gear you have. WAR Gives us that. I want to see a lvl 70 take a lvl 80 in WOW. It will never happen (no matter how good you are) do to gear based crap. WAR I do that same thing all day.
They should merge the servers so that we can have more Open RvR going with the new gear that was just released. The WAR story line is awesome (Just like WOW's was in the begining).
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I could never call WAR a "flop" seeing as it is a good, innovative game with a solid player base and good reviews. However one aspect that I am very dissapointed with is the war aspect in the sense that it is really not a war. Zones constantly flip flop from one side to another without any real consequences (beside some lame bonuses) so the feeling of victory or defeat really isnt there.
So I think that is the main reason this game is not all it could be. After doing XX scenarios and flip flipping zones a 50 times or so, people start to realise that the war is fake. It is basically just volleyball game with the ball (zones) being hit back and forth between the two teams.
A more "real" war would have consequences, albeit not so serious ones as in real life because it is a game after all, but still. You should lose something that you dont want to lose when you lose a zone and same for when you win. That just isnt the case.
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The problem with this statement is that WoW wasn't perfect at launch. I seem to remember them completely scrapping Ironforge and having lag issues and CTDs just like every other MMO that I've played. Fanboys always think WoW is perfect, and right now it is VERY polished, but it's had a helluva long time to get to that point and countless patches and updates. WoW was NOT perfect at launch, sorry to break that news to you.
Who said WoW was perfect at launch? Lets not put words in my mouth and then pretend that I spoke them ok?
WoW was fun at launch. People waited in line just to log in for the chance to play. Sure it had technical issues. Part of them from network issues and part from the heavy loads from people trying to log in. Both easy problems to fix and they did get fixed.
Can the same be said for Warhammer? The game isn't some technical nightmare like the WoW launch and yet the majority of people left and they were merging servers within weeks of the game launching. The question is can they stem the losses and rebound? I doubt performance patches will work here since the major points people have center around core mechanics of the game.
What kind of silly comments. PvP in War? With that clunky, unresponsive and laggy game play. Come on....
War lacks the polish of Wow classes. As a matter of fact where ARE the talent settings of War?
Can I make a War class and fill in a tank, a healer and a full Dps class in ONE character please. No of course not. Wow is so much more powerful and polished than War is. In fact even comparing the two is a laugh.
War as a PvP game is the laughing stock of MMORPG's.
Now give me your personal mail and I will show you 3(!) recent screen shots of my level 70 character killing 3 different level 80's in a duel. OK mine was 80% brutal geared and those guys were "levelers", but one of them even was on Nax already. And no group intervened.
So skill primes gear in Wow.
Where are the rated PvP sets in War? , where is the balance? , what kind of silly game are you playing where lag and clunky combat moves are more important than skill?
Oh and since every Wow class is represented in the top world arena competitions, this is ample proof there is balance or else you wouldn't have all classes in that top.
There isn't even a duel mode in Warhammer, because dueling would be ridiculous in showing off just how much nonsens is put into that game.
What are you on about? PvP in WAR is very well done and here are the reasons why:
1) Tanks are useful in PvP because they can guard weaker classes and absorb dmg meant for them, they can also taunt other players and not just mobs, forcing them to either attack the tank or suffer extra damage. Furthermore tanks in WAR has excellent CC break abilities so they cant be perma-rooted like in other games out there.
2) Healers arent pushovers in PvP. With the sole exception of Witch Elves, Healers classes has high survivability in PvP which makes them more fun to play than in other games where they are automatically killed the first 5 seconds of any PvP encounter. Healers also have dmg capability and some CC capability which makes them more fun to play both in PvE and PvP.
3) CC isnt imbalancing as in other games because of so many CC break abilities but they still have some uses.
4) Battles can last long enough to be interesting. In other games you die so quickly that you can barely react but in WAR, with the Exception of glass cannons such as Sorcerors/BWs etc, most classes can live long enough to actually explore different tactics. Ofcourse focus fire will take you down quickly but that is hard to do anything about.
5) Innovative classes. In WAR there are many innovative class features that are not seen in most other games. Such as Bright Wizards building up combustion, Archmages has a synergic ability between dmg spells and healing spells, Swordmasters having different stances depending on what moves they have performed and many, many more.
6) Morale building during fights unlucks special abilities that can change the tide of the battle. Another innovative PvE and PvP feature.
7) PvP from level 1. In most games PvP is really only available after tedious PvE grinding but in WAR you can PvP basically from lvl 1-40. All you need to PvE is for gear and if you are playing an alt then you can buy gear.
The only reason why I dont think WAR is the PvP MMORPG out there is that the PvP is rather pointless. It is basically for getting exp, some gear and bonuses and eventually sacking the enemy city (which will reset after you are done anyway).
If they can manage to make PvP more meaningful then WAR would be the king of MMORPG PvP but right now it is already much more interesting than other PvE MMORPG with PvP as feature such as WoW because WAR is rather a PvP MMORPG with PvE features.
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Another consideration you are forgetting here is price.
I was in the Gamestop at a local mall and WoW had the most boxes, followed by Warhammer and then AoC as well. But one thing I noticed right off:
WoW was normal price for Lich King, AoC was normal price for that ($49) but Warhammer was selling for $29 a box.
This also is an indicator of how games are selling and what a retailer is trying to move out as well.
"TO MICHAEL!"
look like they want to get rid of those boxes quick... those things are hurting the look of the store...
And the problem with this is that even though it wasn't perfect on release, Wow was different and genre changing enough that MOST people who bought it stuck with it. It had low specs to run, simple to follow questlines, easy interface, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. We do know very few games are released perfect at launch but WoW didn't make people run for the hills because of this.
The reason WoW kept so many people is that is was different enough than anything out when released overall and that's why it continued to have a RISE in sales after release 3 and 4 months out. It wasn't dropping huge amounts of box sales.
Take Warhammer. There is nothing revolutionary about it or anything that would make most people sit through the beta fixing after release. Over 800k bought it on release, about 250k are playing now. The sales didn't stay steady are aren't rising so that anyone would notice. Warhammer was going in the other direction so fast, servers had to be taped up and patched together.
That's the difference when people keep comparing WoW and Warhammer releases. Most people recognized that Wow was a much better and different game and STUCK with it. They saw the potential in it and here we are 11 million subscriptions later.
Most people who played it saw Warhammer as about as good as it's gonna get and a rehash with little potential for good, stable endgame play and a rehash. A big rescrapping would have to take place for lots of things to work as intended and we all know Mythic isn't going to do that.
If you like Warhammer now, you'll like it later. If you didn't like it before, there isn't much hope they will fix what you didn't like about it.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Another consideration you are forgetting here is price.
I was in the Gamestop at a local mall and WoW had the most boxes, followed by Warhammer and then AoC as well. But one thing I noticed right off:
WoW was normal price for Lich King, AoC was normal price for that ($49) but Warhammer was selling for $29 a box.
This also is an indicator of how games are selling and what a retailer is trying to move out as well.
I thought I was going to have to teach the 201 class but you got to it before me. Thanks
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
It flopped because it was released too early. People tried, got bored and left due to scenarios/lack of RvR.
It doesn't matter how good the game is now, MMOs have 1 chance to impress potential players. Mythic blew it and now they will have a 200-250k subs game instead of 1M+. One would have thought that Devs would learn lessons from Vanguard and AoC, but guess not.
Bad marketing and release strategy.
They really over-estimated the fan response to the game right out of the gates.
Too many servers divided the opening day population and spread the numbers too thin. Players seeing less people will wait patiently for a few weeks then take off.
Mythic thought they'd get more people on day one and prepared for that. But instead of preparing the people committed to playing the game to possibly make an alternate server selection, they simply let people flood into the smallest corner.
Of course then comes server consolidation, and the meat-heads start screaming at the top of their lungs that the game has failed. It is too bad that all of these programming and marketing geniuses waste their time trolling boards.
I think it "flopped" because;
Scenario grinding + uneven sides = unhappiness.
Slow response to shrinking player base.
Let's face it, almost everyone scenario ran all day long. The much touted RvR system didnt really get going as a result.
Side balance was an issue. Alot of people chose Destruction, understandably as it just looked and felt much better and sadly had the better classes ( Witch Elves and TANKS ). Order seemed a bit wishy-washy. Elfs were men in skirts on the order side, the White Lion IMO just looked crap, BW looked insane and dwarfs are an aquired taste. The only good looking class on Order IMO was the Witch Hunter.
PvP matches became a game of CC spam and KB spam. Character customization was piss poor, I like to look different than atleast some other people if possible.
GOA were far to slow to merge servers in the EU. populations nose dived and many morer left as a result.
I play Order on Volkmar and used to play Destruction on Sylvania. Volkmar is pretty balanced when it comes to RvR, but Sylvania is completely and utterly ruled by Order. I don't see why anyone plays on that server on either side. It's demoralizing for Destruction and must be boring as hell for Order. I think Warhammer would do much better with merging a lot of servers and making the populations on them so large (and tweaking how many people can enter an RvR battle- or something along those lines), that imbalance is normally something that doesn't happen. I loved the game and would still love the game if it wasn't for the demoralizing ownage that happens when one side is insanely outnumbered or overpowered (a group of 30s has no chance against a group of well-equipped 40s, but is forced to play against them at times if they want something to do).
Since the last big patch RvR has become more important, which is good, but it has also become TOO important. There's no point in doing anything but getting renown and getting to lvl 40 so you can get more gear and more renown... no one PvEs anymore. A huge portion of the game- a portion where the game truly excelled due to public quests and an interesting world, basically became useless. Sure gold bags from public quests are still good, but will they ever match renown gear? Nope.
I think this is a bigger issue than most people think. Vanity is a very strong force and if you look at the Order side with the Knight of the Blazing Sun being dwarfed by Black Orcs and Chosen, the elves wearing dresses instead of metal armor, Bright Wizards looking like a homeless person and who wants to play a midget? It is not strange that most people pick order because they simply look much cooler.
Then ofcourse I think they have the better classes as well. Witch Elves do their jobs much more efficiently than Witch Hunters and Black Orcs are one of the toughest classes out there (much more so than Ironbreakers imo).
Order needs a complete overhaul for people wanting to play them and adjusting a skill here and there just wont cut it. The elf males need to be redone to look like more like males and both the Bright Wizard and Knight of the Blazing Sun needs a major aestethical (spelling?) overhaul.
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Haha! That's a good one. But the BW's aren't really homeless.
They really are just fashion models from Mugatu's "Derelict Campaign" from the movie 'Zoolander'.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.