The real question should be, "Did WAR flop?" because it is not entirely obvious to me that it did yet. We'll see how they manage to keep the player base happy while they fix OPvP and add new content.
The question though, "Why did WAR not meet my expectations?" is a little more resonable. For me it was two fold.
A) The mmo is a game, not a world yet which although the developers stated that fact many times before release, for what ever reason I refused to believe it until I saw how linear the gameplay was.
WAR has a metric TON of GREAT ideas in it that just did not mesh well.
I love the classes, I love leveling through pvp, I love the idea of zone based influence rewards, I love the idea of large scale zone wide public quests and I love open world old school castle seiges - it's just fo me none of the things I just mentioned were implemented in a way that could keep my shaman interested past level 33.
I do think WAR is in the right direction and this time next year you will see a thriving game with a great leveling system, great pvp/opvp and a top notch endgame, until then we'll see how the incrimental patches work out.
Currently Playing: GW2 Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The real question should be, "Did WAR flop?" because it is not entirely obvious to me that it did yet. We'll see how they manage to keep the player base happy while they fix OPvP and add new content. The question though, "Why did WAR not meet my expectations?" is a little more resonable. For me it was two fold. A) The mmo is a game, not a world yet which although the developers stated that fact many times before release, for what ever reason I refused to believe it until I saw how linear the gameplay was. WAR has a metric TON of GREAT ideas in it that just did not mesh well. I love the classes, I love leveling through pvp, I love the idea of zone based influence rewards, I love the idea of large scale zone wide public quests and I love open world old school castle seiges - it's just fo me none of the things I just mentioned were implemented in a way that could keep my shaman interested past level 33. I do think WAR is in the right direction and this time next year you will see a thriving game with a great leveling system, great pvp/opvp and a top notch endgame, until then we'll see how the incrimental patches work out.
I wouldn't say that WAR flopped, well maybe compared to the expectations of MJ and Barnett but not compared to most games.
Still, they have a great world and many nice ideas, the game should really have been better. I think the problem is that they made the game to similar to all the rest of the games instead of doing as they done before and make their own thing. A beefed up version of DaoC in the Warhammer world would probably worked better too.
That we have buggs, imbalances and misses content doesn't help but I don't think that are really the reason to why so many of it's players quited so fast.
They do work in the right direction but a lot of the problem is in the core game. They do try to compete with Wow on Wows terms and that is not the best move, Mythic knows how to make good games.
Like the 2 faction system, why don't they have 3 instead? It would actually fit the lore a lot better with Order, Chaos and greenskin instead of what we have now.
My hope is that they implement a lot more of the lore because that is WARs big strenght, that is what makes the game unique. I don't really see the horror/dark humor theme that made "Warhammer fantasy RPG" so great, if they start to implement that more WAR could turn into the unique gaming experience it should be.
WAR could of course be a thriving game in a year but it can also go straight in the other direction, it is all in Mythics hands. But I don't think that bugg fixing, balancing and more content (similar to the old content) is enough. Mythic must make the game further away from the other MMOs so WAR doesn't feel like one of many. I really hope they make it, I am a big fan of the IP.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the game flopped..yet..In the general context of the word. I can only speak for myself and possibly echo some thoughts of other players as to why it is not as successful as projected.
Simply put, it was not what was advertised. It was supposed to be an RVR game, much like DAoC. Never once did I see Paul Barnett on one of his tangents say, "It's Epic struggles between mortal enemies! The Posh High Elves against the ultra cool Dark Elves! The Reatrded dwarves aginst the mighty Greenskins! And the gay Humans vs the PwN Factory hordes of Chaos!!" ( he might as well though)" They are in everlasting conflict! stuggling for supremacy! In a bitter struugle for their very lives!!!! It' Such an epic struggle in fact.....they play capture the flag games over and over again."I just dont see how scenarios have any place in an RVR game. Is it because folks need a place to PVP???
Ok, you gotta be kidding me.
I remember pod casts and interviews saying how its not gonna be a grind..really? Where ISN'T it a grind?
Collison? Great! where is it usable as a tactic? in RVR lakes its 9000 acres of open terain. Due to the way keeps trade off its not really useable in keeps.
Leveing guilds? How about LvLing chat channels...Again another great feature on paper. What a great way to create a sense of unit cohesion and community within guilds. A feature that encourages guilds to work together for a common goal. not true .. as long as people are getting xp the guild gets xp. So folks can go on soloing. How rediculous is that? A team based game people!
what they created was an individuals on this side vs individuals on this other side game. (Thank you WoW)
The concepts look great on paper but just do not work in application.
PQs..Ok reward based on contribution. Really? why does running through a zone net me a 1st place loot bag then?
The game can't handle what it is supposed to be about in essence without servers or zones crashing.
I know for me it just seemed very cardboard and too singleplayer. An RVR game thats all about personal gain and the fact you are better off soloing, dosen't make a whole lot of sense. The reason its not a Wow killer in my opinion is because Wow exists. The players are invested in the play style Wow has made the norm through its poularity, in instant gratification silver platter super easy mode solo friendly aproach.
Why was DAoC more of a success at this point in its life then, and with the new tech available and new ideas Warhammer has at its disposal not? Again Wow wasn't out when DAoC was. I hope warhammer does overcome its growingpains and obstacles, because I would go back , but the question is how long will people hold on and keep the faith that the game will turn into what was presented on paper? As I see it now this just smacks of SWG, so I quit while I was ahead.
Only way this game flopped was because of Mythic and fanboi's way over the top expectations this game will never break the million sub mark. I fully expect the game to settle somewhere just behind LOTRO sub wise and if Mythic shallowed there pride and merged or closed two thirds of the servers the game would do just fine, as the game stands now I can see the game struggling to attract new players as the newness fades and new games are released.
The problem with new MMO's like War and AoC, and especially now Darkfall, is that they emphasize the PvP aspect of the game. Problems with this? Well, if there isnt any PvP going on (no RvR or Keep sieges) then there isnt much to do. Also, making game hype PvP focused often turns off the Pve players that are a big part of MMO scene. My suggestions:
Make levelling more purposefull so that when there isnt any raids or PvP going on you can always level a new character into your end-game toolbox. Different paths to level your toon (like more than one range 10-20 levelliing area); purposefull quest lines (make the levelling more story based); put in more animation, demos etc (Why dont MMO's understand why everyone thought Final Fantasy was great: it was their cinematics).
Ps. If one more game brings in the Nord theme into their game I will unsubcribe all my accounts. In WoW it felt like unthematic, when I went to Age of Conan I was bored of these already when I had seen them in WoW, and now theres no way I will go play War to see the same Nords for the third time.
Anyone following the game from early beta it should have been clear as day that the term "RvR" for WAR was never just PvP but a mix of PvP and PvP just as the "WAR is everywhere" never meant that you could PvP everywhere, just that the whole world revolved around the war, both PvE(like quests aimed at attacking the other side etc etc) and PvP.
The statement that this game was also focused almost entirely around scenario's till they closed down the beta instead of released back over a year ago is very true. There had been 0 mention nor sight in beta of keeps till that point and when release time came around the outcry started that ORvR was seriously lacking with meaningless keepless objectives out in the field that switched hands when someone farted because they were out in the open.
It's only after that that they started adding keeps etc, so in that sense the ORvR with keeps you see now is again, sadly a "tacked on" feature rather than the main dish.
That's probably why they had so many population vulnerablities in their design without real solutions because basically in their original design that would have been a non issue with Scenario's keeping the balance.
Agree
This game is a total FAILURE
(cf last patch: over 2wb you'reTP to warcamp)
NB I'm a fan of DAOC
And a fan of Warhammer Battles
This is NOT a RvR game based on WB
This is only a bad copy of Wow. Carbon copy and a bad one. (im' NOT a wow player ok fanboys?)
Took a CE, thought this could be my mmo for years; it won't be.
No storyline, PVE is ultra boring, only stupid grinding, no IA , PVP/BG is boring, there's no challenge, you'll have only to zerg to take a fortress, and now you 're not sure to fight because of this ridiculous players cap.
Worst mmo played and bought since 3/4 years. Even AOC is better than this piece of crap.
War isn't for Pve players, not for Rp players (DE fighting with orcs and chaos MEGA LOL ) not for pvp players. It's a game made for Alterac/warsong players, no more no less.
WAR flopped? I didn't know this. WAR is a good game, it's just people want to compare it to WoW. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I'm fed up with people saying "omgwtfpewpewpew war sucks!" Stop comparing it to WoW. WoW is for carebear quest grinding lovers. WAR is for PvP, slit your throat, mash your head with a hammer lovers. Two totally different things. Just because a game doesn't have 11.5 million (which I doubt WoW does, lies! seeing as how 90% of the servers are low population lol) doesn't mean the game wasn't a success. WoW will be around for many years, no game is going to be this so-called "WoW-Killer". If you don't like WoW don't play it, simple as that. I'm not a WAR fanboi, I don't even have an active subscription right now. One of the games i'm playing is a 2-D overhead mmo with horrible graphics, with maybe 5000 players. Doesn't mean it's a failure, since the company is still making money off the game. If you make $0.01 profit on your investment you got a success. WAR isn't like EQ2, that put SOE into billions of dollars in debt. If anything flopped it's EQ2, not WAR. I have yet to see anyone have a thread "Why did EQ2 flop?" Quit your trolling and play the game you want to play. If you don't have anything nice, don't say anything at all.
WAR flopped? I didn't know this. WAR is a good game, it's just people want to compare it to WoW. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I'm fed up with people saying "omgwtfpewpewpew war sucks!" Stop comparing it to WoW. WoW is for carebear quest grinding lovers. WAR is for PvP, slit your throat, mash your head with a hammer lovers. Two totally different things. Just because a game doesn't have 11.5 million (which I doubt WoW does, lies! seeing as how 90% of the servers are low population lol) doesn't mean the game wasn't a success. WoW will be around for many years, no game is going to be this so-called "WoW-Killer". If you don't like WoW don't play it, simple as that. I'm not a WAR fanboi, I don't even have an active subscription right now. One of the games i'm playing is a 2-D overhead mmo with horrible graphics, with maybe 5000 players. Doesn't mean it's a failure, since the company is still making money off the game. If you make $0.01 profit on your investment you got a success. WAR isn't like EQ2, that put SOE into billions of dollars in debt. If anything flopped it's EQ2, not WAR. I have yet to see anyone have a thread "Why did EQ2 flop?" Quit your trolling and play the game you want to play. If you don't have anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Originally posted by Gravarg Doesn't mean it's a failure, since the company is still making money off the game. If you make $0.01 profit on your investment you got a success. WAR isn't like EQ2, that put SOE into billions of dollars in debt. If anything flopped it's EQ2, not WAR. I have yet to see anyone have a thread "Why did EQ2 flop?"
The main reason you don't see "Why did EQ2 flop" threads as much is most of the EQ2 crowd weren't running into WoW and proclaiming an end to their world, and trying to rub their faces in it. But plenty of War fans went there yelling "WAGGGGGGH!" and all over the internet following Paul Barnett's loud lead. The EQ2 crowd also usually have these little annoying things called 'facts' in their arguments that are usually right that kill troll posts dead.
EQ2 fans are also not as easy of a target. So posters find its much easier to push the rabid Warhammer fanboi off their tricycles during discussions, which usually contain some 'questionable facts' like you do above.
People usually give payback when they feel its due, that's just human nature.
Well offcourse the main goal of Orvr is to raids the enemies capital city. This however I believe only happend once on the euro servers, Mainly becouse poeple do not have the gear to take on the lords in the fortress, with is wierd becouse I recall that they said once that this game would not resolve around gear to much. So at the end it is about victory, pride and destroying you enemy. The problem however lies in the individual zones. I know they will make somewhere a guild can hold a keep and upgrade it.
That just it, you cant destroy your enemy. You raid their city but it is done in such a way (with ungodly NPCs) that sooner or later you will get kicked out and then it resets all over again.
So the WAR isnt really a war, its a volleyball game you could say. You play volleyball with keeps, fortresses and when you won the game it resets to zero again.
Now that it is borderline impossible to raid the opposite city because of NPCs (seeing as this game should be PvP centered) is yet another defficieny in the game.
So to summarize, this game is fun for a while since it has the major difference between other MMORPGs that you can advance your character through easily accessible PvP system but it fails miserably with the war that is supposedly going on. The war is not a war, its a joke, and after a couple of months when people realise that they get bored of FPS style PvP, with no consequences, and then they leave. Kinda like when playing an FPS.
Comments
The real question should be, "Did WAR flop?" because it is not entirely obvious to me that it did yet. We'll see how they manage to keep the player base happy while they fix OPvP and add new content.
The question though, "Why did WAR not meet my expectations?" is a little more resonable. For me it was two fold.
A) The mmo is a game, not a world yet which although the developers stated that fact many times before release, for what ever reason I refused to believe it until I saw how linear the gameplay was.
I love the classes, I love leveling through pvp, I love the idea of zone based influence rewards, I love the idea of large scale zone wide public quests and I love open world old school castle seiges - it's just fo me none of the things I just mentioned were implemented in a way that could keep my shaman interested past level 33.
I do think WAR is in the right direction and this time next year you will see a thriving game with a great leveling system, great pvp/opvp and a top notch endgame, until then we'll see how the incrimental patches work out.
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
I wouldn't say that WAR flopped, well maybe compared to the expectations of MJ and Barnett but not compared to most games.
Still, they have a great world and many nice ideas, the game should really have been better. I think the problem is that they made the game to similar to all the rest of the games instead of doing as they done before and make their own thing. A beefed up version of DaoC in the Warhammer world would probably worked better too.
That we have buggs, imbalances and misses content doesn't help but I don't think that are really the reason to why so many of it's players quited so fast.
They do work in the right direction but a lot of the problem is in the core game. They do try to compete with Wow on Wows terms and that is not the best move, Mythic knows how to make good games.
Like the 2 faction system, why don't they have 3 instead? It would actually fit the lore a lot better with Order, Chaos and greenskin instead of what we have now.
My hope is that they implement a lot more of the lore because that is WARs big strenght, that is what makes the game unique. I don't really see the horror/dark humor theme that made "Warhammer fantasy RPG" so great, if they start to implement that more WAR could turn into the unique gaming experience it should be.
WAR could of course be a thriving game in a year but it can also go straight in the other direction, it is all in Mythics hands. But I don't think that bugg fixing, balancing and more content (similar to the old content) is enough. Mythic must make the game further away from the other MMOs so WAR doesn't feel like one of many. I really hope they make it, I am a big fan of the IP.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the game flopped..yet..In the general context of the word. I can only speak for myself and possibly echo some thoughts of other players as to why it is not as successful as projected.
Simply put, it was not what was advertised. It was supposed to be an RVR game, much like DAoC. Never once did I see Paul Barnett on one of his tangents say, "It's Epic struggles between mortal enemies! The Posh High Elves against the ultra cool Dark Elves! The Reatrded dwarves aginst the mighty Greenskins! And the gay Humans vs the PwN Factory hordes of Chaos!!" ( he might as well though)" They are in everlasting conflict! stuggling for supremacy! In a bitter struugle for their very lives!!!! It' Such an epic struggle in fact.....they play capture the flag games over and over again."I just dont see how scenarios have any place in an RVR game. Is it because folks need a place to PVP???
Ok, you gotta be kidding me.
I remember pod casts and interviews saying how its not gonna be a grind..really? Where ISN'T it a grind?
Collison? Great! where is it usable as a tactic? in RVR lakes its 9000 acres of open terain. Due to the way keeps trade off its not really useable in keeps.
Leveing guilds? How about LvLing chat channels...Again another great feature on paper. What a great way to create a sense of unit cohesion and community within guilds. A feature that encourages guilds to work together for a common goal. not true .. as long as people are getting xp the guild gets xp. So folks can go on soloing. How rediculous is that? A team based game people!
what they created was an individuals on this side vs individuals on this other side game. (Thank you WoW)
The concepts look great on paper but just do not work in application.
PQs..Ok reward based on contribution. Really? why does running through a zone net me a 1st place loot bag then?
The game can't handle what it is supposed to be about in essence without servers or zones crashing.
I know for me it just seemed very cardboard and too singleplayer. An RVR game thats all about personal gain and the fact you are better off soloing, dosen't make a whole lot of sense. The reason its not a Wow killer in my opinion is because Wow exists. The players are invested in the play style Wow has made the norm through its poularity, in instant gratification silver platter super easy mode solo friendly aproach.
Why was DAoC more of a success at this point in its life then, and with the new tech available and new ideas Warhammer has at its disposal not? Again Wow wasn't out when DAoC was. I hope warhammer does overcome its growingpains and obstacles, because I would go back , but the question is how long will people hold on and keep the faith that the game will turn into what was presented on paper? As I see it now this just smacks of SWG, so I quit while I was ahead.
Only way this game flopped was because of Mythic and fanboi's way over the top expectations this game will never break the million sub mark. I fully expect the game to settle somewhere just behind LOTRO sub wise and if Mythic shallowed there pride and merged or closed two thirds of the servers the game would do just fine, as the game stands now I can see the game struggling to attract new players as the newness fades and new games are released.
The problem with new MMO's like War and AoC, and especially now Darkfall, is that they emphasize the PvP aspect of the game. Problems with this? Well, if there isnt any PvP going on (no RvR or Keep sieges) then there isnt much to do. Also, making game hype PvP focused often turns off the Pve players that are a big part of MMO scene. My suggestions:
Make levelling more purposefull so that when there isnt any raids or PvP going on you can always level a new character into your end-game toolbox. Different paths to level your toon (like more than one range 10-20 levelliing area); purposefull quest lines (make the levelling more story based); put in more animation, demos etc (Why dont MMO's understand why everyone thought Final Fantasy was great: it was their cinematics).
Ps. If one more game brings in the Nord theme into their game I will unsubcribe all my accounts. In WoW it felt like unthematic, when I went to Age of Conan I was bored of these already when I had seen them in WoW, and now theres no way I will go play War to see the same Nords for the third time.
Agree
This game is a total FAILURE
(cf last patch: over 2wb you'reTP to warcamp)
NB I'm a fan of DAOC
And a fan of Warhammer Battles
This is NOT a RvR game based on WB
This is only a bad copy of Wow. Carbon copy and a bad one. (im' NOT a wow player ok fanboys?)
Took a CE, thought this could be my mmo for years; it won't be.
No storyline, PVE is ultra boring, only stupid grinding, no IA , PVP/BG is boring, there's no challenge, you'll have only to zerg to take a fortress, and now you 're not sure to fight because of this ridiculous players cap.
Worst mmo played and bought since 3/4 years. Even AOC is better than this piece of crap.
War isn't for Pve players, not for Rp players (DE fighting with orcs and chaos MEGA LOL
) not for pvp players. It's a game made for Alterac/warsong players, no more no less.
War is a bad carbon copy of Wow's PVP.
WAR flopped? I didn't know this. WAR is a good game, it's just people want to compare it to WoW. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I'm fed up with people saying "omgwtfpewpewpew war sucks!" Stop comparing it to WoW. WoW is for carebear quest grinding lovers. WAR is for PvP, slit your throat, mash your head with a hammer lovers. Two totally different things. Just because a game doesn't have 11.5 million (which I doubt WoW does, lies! seeing as how 90% of the servers are low population lol) doesn't mean the game wasn't a success. WoW will be around for many years, no game is going to be this so-called "WoW-Killer". If you don't like WoW don't play it, simple as that. I'm not a WAR fanboi, I don't even have an active subscription right now. One of the games i'm playing is a 2-D overhead mmo with horrible graphics, with maybe 5000 players. Doesn't mean it's a failure, since the company is still making money off the game. If you make $0.01 profit on your investment you got a success. WAR isn't like EQ2, that put SOE into billions of dollars in debt. If anything flopped it's EQ2, not WAR. I have yet to see anyone have a thread "Why did EQ2 flop?" Quit your trolling and play the game you want to play. If you don't have anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Ow the Irony, lol
The main reason you don't see "Why did EQ2 flop" threads as much is most of the EQ2 crowd weren't running into WoW and proclaiming an end to their world, and trying to rub their faces in it. But plenty of War fans went there yelling "WAGGGGGGH!" and all over the internet following Paul Barnett's loud lead. The EQ2 crowd also usually have these little annoying things called 'facts' in their arguments that are usually right that kill troll posts dead.
EQ2 fans are also not as easy of a target. So posters find its much easier to push the rabid Warhammer fanboi off their tricycles during discussions, which usually contain some 'questionable facts' like you do above.
People usually give payback when they feel its due, that's just human nature.
"TO MICHAEL!"
That just it, you cant destroy your enemy. You raid their city but it is done in such a way (with ungodly NPCs) that sooner or later you will get kicked out and then it resets all over again.
So the WAR isnt really a war, its a volleyball game you could say. You play volleyball with keeps, fortresses and when you won the game it resets to zero again.
Now that it is borderline impossible to raid the opposite city because of NPCs (seeing as this game should be PvP centered) is yet another defficieny in the game.
So to summarize, this game is fun for a while since it has the major difference between other MMORPGs that you can advance your character through easily accessible PvP system but it fails miserably with the war that is supposedly going on. The war is not a war, its a joke, and after a couple of months when people realise that they get bored of FPS style PvP, with no consequences, and then they leave. Kinda like when playing an FPS.
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