In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
thats entirely untrue. there are already many things stopping it from being a wow clone. for starters, is there won't be 20+ player raids for a few great items.
that there alone prevents it from being a wow clone. not to mentions, wow's story lines, your character was not the hero, the character you created in wow was no more special story line wise then a foot soldier you make in warcraft 3 from the barracks.
TOR's story line, your character IS the main hero of the story.
theres already big differences mechanicly that are seperating the game from being a wow clone. such as being able to faction hop with a character also.
In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
says who? you?
me personally i am very intrigued by a story driven mmorpg, and if they do it right, it could keep me hooked for a very very long time. One of the things i enjoyed about lotro is the story line, now make that so i can influence it, i would drool over it.
and they said your actions will influence the story....so how is this not a dream come true for people who like to write their own stories, you influence it, you write it......that sounds pretty good to me.
In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
thats entirely untrue. there are already many things stopping it from being a wow clone. for starters, is there won't be 20+ player raids for a few great items.
that there alone prevents it from being a wow clone. not to mentions, wow's story lines, your character was not the hero, the character you created in wow was no more special story line wise then a foot soldier you make in warcraft 3 from the barracks.
TOR's story line, your character IS the main hero of the story.
theres already big differences mechanicly that are seperating the game from being a wow clone. such as being able to faction hop with a character also.
If everyone is THE hero of THE villian then the central story line becomes cilly. And removing raids from a game doesn't stop it form being a WoW clone. What will stop it from being a WoW clone is if they allow character customiztion to never stop, to never stop the characters personal story. If it ends, or is very limited, then everyone ends up doing the same things and nobody expereince is that different than the next guys.
WoW clones then are games where everyones expereince is eseentially the same, where everyone does the same quest, farms for the same items, attempts to do the same end game, has pretty much the same expereince as every other character.
Story driven theme parks have no long-term appeal? Apparently, neither did SWG pre-CU. It lost over half of its initial subscription base shortly after launch, and was bleeding an average of 10,000 subscribers per month after that.
BTW, I'm not personally a fan, but I think there's around 11.5 million players who might disagree with your opinion regarding theme parks.
Let me see if I can do some "hanshotfirst math" here. Take the 200,000 people that still played when the NGE came out.... add 10,000 people per month for the two years the game was out before that... So SWG had 440,000 subscribers a few months after launch? Oh wait, we have to double it because "it lost over half of it's subscription base shortly after launch"... OMG! SWG had OVER 900,000 initial subscriptions??? I had no idea!!!
Please, make up some more numbers.
(BTW, The theme park version of SWG bleed off about 50,000 subscribers a month until it had no more to bleed).
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
"An experienced game master in pen and paper will know that levels and gear are just means to help developing characters - in the grand scheme of the story you are telling, it is an illusion created to make the PCs feel more and more powerful, yet the tasks facing them will be balanced out to how powerful they are. I can easily see BioWare create epic "Campaigns" with a story that ends, and leaves you to do whatever you prefer at end-game, be it raiding, PvP, crafting, mini-games like Swoop racing competitions etc. Then the expansion comes out and a new story and Campaign begins, if the story is brilliant, it doesn't really matter with level and gear progressions, since they should just be illusions that disguise the fact that you are in effect starting from scratch. If the stories are good enough, people won't even think about level and gear. This way the story won't be never ending, but the stories to be told will be."
If the game takes that route, then theres nothing that set it apart from any other MMO. Thats what people are fighting against here. Bioware is in a unique position to actually compete with WoW and offer some new things for the MMO market, especially with a story driven MMO experience. But not if it follows WoW modle in all other aspects and has the same style of end game.
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion.
I thought SWG sucked.
Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked.
Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it.
I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion.
Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion. I thought SWG sucked. Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked. Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it. I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion. Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Till, love ya like a brother from another mother, but I have to whole-heartedly disagree with your statement here. From what they have told us so far as to what elements they are putting in the game the only part that I was waiting to here about was the crafting part. The remarks by Vogel in his interview when asked about crafting paired with a couple of words about philopshy in general by Walton have pretty much assured me that this game has nothing for me. There won't be something for everyone in TOR and while it is fair to say that about every game, true, we are talking specifically about TOR here. Crafting in an MMO should not be comparable in scope/breadth to, oh, say the crafting available in the Neverwinter Nights series of games. Crafting in those games, if you put things in pie format (mmm, pie) was maybe 10 to 15 percent of the overall game pie. Crafting in SWG (pre NGE) was probably 35 to 40 percent of the overall game pie with the number of different things you could make and dynamic resources fitting into the crafting equation, etc. Creation and building..."things" is apart of a world. A strong aspect of that part of "living in any world" should be a desirable trait that any MMO company, no matter the license, should strive for. To date, the only crafting systems that have made it into that ballpark are SWG(pre NGE), UO, AC1, EQ1 (I'm thinking about all the combinations that could happen with making arrows as an example) and EvE. It's unfortunate, but crafting has become a red-headed step child (no offense to you forum goers who fit that description) mechanic in this genre. Notice in the games I mention 3 of the 5 are first generation games and the remaining two are second. None of the recent games can compare to the scope these games offered in that area in my opinion.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Till, love ya like a brother from another mother, but I have to whole-heartedly disagree with your statement here. From what they have told us so far as to what elements they are putting in the game the only part that I was waiting to here about was the crafting part. The remarks by Vogel in his interview when asked about crafting paired with a couple of words about philopshy in general by Walton have pretty much assured me that this game has nothing for me. There won't be something for everyone in TOR and while it is fair to say that about every game, true, we are talking specifically about TOR here. Crafting in an MMO should not be comparable in scope/breadth to, oh, say the crafting available in the Neverwinter Nights series of games. Crafting in those games, if you put things in pie format (mmm, pie) was maybe 10 to 15 percent of the overall game pie. Crafting in SWG (pre NGE) was probably 35 to 40 percent of the overall game pie with the number of different things you could make and dynamic resources fitting into the crafting equation, etc. Creation and building..."things" is apart of a world. A strong aspect of that part of "living in any world" should be a desirable trait that any MMO company, no matter the license, should strive for. To date, the only crafting systems that have made it into that ballpark are SWG(pre NGE), UO, AC1, EQ1 (I'm thinking about all the combinations that could happen with making arrows as an example) and EvE. It's unfortunate, but crafting has become a red-headed step child (no offense to you forum goers who fit that description) mechanic in this genre. Notice in the games I mention 3 of the 5 are first generation games and the remaining two are second. None of the recent games can compare to the scope these games offered in that area in my opinion.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
has there even been any information released on crafting in swTOR? so far i haven't heard anything. i wouldn't expect it to be as good as SWG's crafting, just something with more depth then WoW's.
has there even been any information released on crafting in swTOR? so far i haven't heard anything. i wouldn't expect it to be as good as SWG's crafting, just something with more depth then WoW's.
The only thing about crafting that we know is simply that there WILL be crafting and BioWare are trying to come up with a way to make it much more 'fun' and interesting than previous games... but reall, it's all PR talk atm and nothing really concrete yet.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion. I thought SWG sucked. Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked. Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it. I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion. Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Crafting is for ME .... why? because i have the time to do it SOLO..... why because i am retired and can play as i want or when i want, Crafting is time consuming if you are not in a Guild and even if you are in a Guild.
Most Saturday Players do not have the time to Craft, but some do Harvest enough to get the Smithy to make there items for them.
The reason i like crafting is just this...... I get to see every damn place in the game because i have to harvest my own materials which is just JIMDANDY and fine by me. (EXCEPTIONS) if it's a PvP game you wont see me their. (RvR) you will.
PS:
Yes i love getting lost to, nothing like being lost and running smack dab into a Wolf in the middle of nowhere with a Backpack full of Goodies.
The hard truth a lot of "hardcore" MMO players need to learn is that you only make up a small, tiny insignificant portion of the paying customers in todays MMO world. No matter how grand our ego's are and how LEET we think we are. We simply do not offer enough dollar clout to change the current MMO genre. The good ole' days are gone. You can either learn to live in the world of instant gratification and accessability or you can be like those old geezers on their porches who wonder what happened to the world. Our ancestors explored the world and found everything there was to find. Now we live in a world that never changes until some new tech or some new fancy theme park opens up to visit. You either change with the times or you get left behind. Darkfall may offer the gameplay you long for as well as a few other new offerings but at the most they will be minor successes by industry standards due to the market they are catering too. Simply put there are more consumers who prefer a quick ride or two that blow them away then to live in the theme park their entire lives building new rides just for them to ride on. Yes, todays world is about the casual player and the "kiddies." They come in larger numbers than you do. They complain less than you do. and on average they are willing to pay more for less than you are. MMO's is a business and businesses will cater to what ever get's them the most money. If SWTOR can offer a story driven world that blows WoW out of the water then they will be a massive success on scale with WoW and lets be honest there is no bigger prize in the MMO industry right now than to pull that off. And the only dev team that could possibly do that is Bioware. Their story telling is on par with the day of past Blizzard. And if they do pull it off (Which even one of the blizzard big wigs in a recent PC Gamer article suggests it just might) Then no matter what you old timers and your great stories of how you walked through the snow to collect your 10 fox ears, up hill both ways, Mean diddly spit. I was one of those old timers, but I found new ways to explore and have adventures, I changed with the times. I wax nostalgic all the time about how nice it was and I look forward to new chances to do some of those things again. But I do not hide from the reality of the current gaming world.
my hope is that we can have both. Why not make a dynamic story-themed MMO with sandbox elements. Give me the great story, I dont object to that. Heck, I loved KOTOR. But KOTOR style doesnt make for a lasting MMO experience.
I want an MMO that gives me a home for 5+ years. Im tired of playing short but entertaining MMO's. And when I read statements from Bioware where they say they want to give us a cinematic entertaining experience it scares me. That translates to me into a game I can beat and then cancel
I have been trolling around the official forums since the game was announced, and yeah, the first 3 weeks was comprised with rabid SWG vets screaming threats and dire predictions if this game wasn't exactly like SWG (except better) and others telling them to shut up. Since then it has been wild speculation about all kinds of junk, with the occasional threat or demand from teh hardcorez.
Bioware seems pretty solid, I've enjoyed most of what they've put out. I for one am more than happy to watch and see what they do instead of rattling my saber and wishing for sequel to a game that failed despite the fact it should have been a licence to print money. I did play SWG and I did enjoy it, but the "sandbox" design allowed SOE to cover up a lot of design flaws. Like the 1/2 finished quest lines and complete lack of content.
One thing I hope they don't do is a political system and player housing. Aimlessly wandering the galaxy trying to find the items from shops that were in cities that may or may not have been abandoned was irritating. The political system was just lame (IMO).
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion. I thought SWG sucked. Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked. Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it. I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion. Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
if crafting is a chore then simply dont do it.
And while it is conjecture and opinion I think the majority who tried it would agree SWG had the best crafting system of any MMO ever
name me another game which i could customize that weapons speed, damage, action use, etc and cutomize every factor of that weapons stats depending on where i wanted to put my experimentation points into. Or armor i could customize it's resistance, encumberance, color, etc on? or food which i could control fill, duration, bonuses? none...theres no game which even comes close to swg crafting.
You were right I was posting while you were editing. But while the statement was more for people like the OP who seem to think WoW is dying, and/or dead. Thus anything new should cater to them since they arn't playing WoW anymore crowd. They make me sick. There is nothing worse in this world than egoists who think the world owes them something since they started everything themselves. And how they complain incessantly about how the kids these days and their new fangled contraptions just don't "toot" their respective horns. And thus'ly the world should cater to them. They just don't get it. When McDonalds came out with its substandard quality and fried disgusting mess the old timers first claimed it could never replace the sit down family restaurant. Then it started to become a success started to pop up everywhere. Suddenly there was fast food everywhere they went. They claimed the quality was bad there was no nutritional value. They complained their ears off. But the world didn't listen the new generation found value in the fast easy food given their busy lives. So the new fast food industry blossomed and continues to do so today. You can still find new family restaurants opening up with the lone old timer sitting in it to have his morning coffe and breakfast. And these same restaurants close their doors soon after. If you have a hard time seeing the message in this story then you need to grow a pair and accept reality for what it is. Hardcore, sandbox, full loot, PvP games are simply not what the main stream player is looking for and they outnumber your assess 1000 to 1. Not saying you wont get a few title catering to you but the analogy here is not far off of reality.
I never said WoW was dying. I dont even say I dislike theme park games. Im saying why not give us both styles. Wouldnt a virtual world sandbox game with theme park rides and a great ever-evolving storyline be the most amazing MMO ever designed ?
vanguard, wow, lotro, all have better crafting. I love to craft items, I hated crafting in SWG. My initial reaction was really bad because I played a doc. Even after that was modified it still was not fun. Hell even Istaria had a better crafting system than SWG.
Like you said it's just my opinion. I wasn't lying I'm being dead serious. I hated SWG and everything about it.
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
says who? you?
me personally i am very intrigued by a story driven mmorpg, and if they do it right, it could keep me hooked for a very very long time. One of the things i enjoyed about lotro is the story line, now make that so i can influence it, i would drool over it.
and they said your actions will influence the story....so how is this not a dream come true for people who like to write their own stories, you influence it, you write it......that sounds pretty good to me.
it does sound good....
for a single player game.
For an MMO, im not convinced.
Add in that pet addition where everyone will have a sidekick to assist them and this game sounds more like a single player experience than an MMO. How silly is it going to be hanging around a town with your sidekick and 300 other people with the very same sidekick also.
Comments
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
thats entirely untrue. there are already many things stopping it from being a wow clone. for starters, is there won't be 20+ player raids for a few great items.
that there alone prevents it from being a wow clone. not to mentions, wow's story lines, your character was not the hero, the character you created in wow was no more special story line wise then a foot soldier you make in warcraft 3 from the barracks.
TOR's story line, your character IS the main hero of the story.
theres already big differences mechanicly that are seperating the game from being a wow clone. such as being able to faction hop with a character also.
says who? you?
me personally i am very intrigued by a story driven mmorpg, and if they do it right, it could keep me hooked for a very very long time. One of the things i enjoyed about lotro is the story line, now make that so i can influence it, i would drool over it.
and they said your actions will influence the story....so how is this not a dream come true for people who like to write their own stories, you influence it, you write it......that sounds pretty good to me.
i loved swg pre cu, but at this point im just happy there not trying to make a wow clone based on star wars theme.
ill take what they give. i've always enjoyed Biowares games, they've always done a great job.
and its not someone else's story. its your characters story that everyone can expierence.
the biggest question that needs to be answered, and hasn't yet, is open world or closed off worlds? that will be the biggest breaker for those who enjoyed SWG so much.
cause lets be real, in star wars, seeing something interesting and being blocked off by an invisible wall, or only being able to walk big trail on a planet is out right boring.
at least wow had an open world.
The only thing that will prevent it form being a wow clone is if there are 1000s of choices players can make and each one will cause the world to treate each player different way. If there are a limited amount of quest and choices, and the majority of players are foced to do the same quests and be offered the same choices, then everyone ends up playing the same game with the same results.
thats entirely untrue. there are already many things stopping it from being a wow clone. for starters, is there won't be 20+ player raids for a few great items.
that there alone prevents it from being a wow clone. not to mentions, wow's story lines, your character was not the hero, the character you created in wow was no more special story line wise then a foot soldier you make in warcraft 3 from the barracks.
TOR's story line, your character IS the main hero of the story.
theres already big differences mechanicly that are seperating the game from being a wow clone. such as being able to faction hop with a character also.
If everyone is THE hero of THE villian then the central story line becomes cilly. And removing raids from a game doesn't stop it form being a WoW clone. What will stop it from being a WoW clone is if they allow character customiztion to never stop, to never stop the characters personal story. If it ends, or is very limited, then everyone ends up doing the same things and nobody expereince is that different than the next guys.
WoW clones then are games where everyones expereince is eseentially the same, where everyone does the same quest, farms for the same items, attempts to do the same end game, has pretty much the same expereince as every other character.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
How many hours have you played SWTOR?
Troll elsewhere.
Nuff said.
Let me see if I can do some "hanshotfirst math" here. Take the 200,000 people that still played when the NGE came out.... add 10,000 people per month for the two years the game was out before that... So SWG had 440,000 subscribers a few months after launch? Oh wait, we have to double it because "it lost over half of it's subscription base shortly after launch"... OMG! SWG had OVER 900,000 initial subscriptions??? I had no idea!!!
Please, make up some more numbers.
(BTW, The theme park version of SWG bleed off about 50,000 subscribers a month until it had no more to bleed).
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Is this what you want the game to be
"An experienced game master in pen and paper will know that levels and gear are just means to help developing characters - in the grand scheme of the story you are telling, it is an illusion created to make the PCs feel more and more powerful, yet the tasks facing them will be balanced out to how powerful they are. I can easily see BioWare create epic "Campaigns" with a story that ends, and leaves you to do whatever you prefer at end-game, be it raiding, PvP, crafting, mini-games like Swoop racing competitions etc. Then the expansion comes out and a new story and Campaign begins, if the story is brilliant, it doesn't really matter with level and gear progressions, since they should just be illusions that disguise the fact that you are in effect starting from scratch. If the stories are good enough, people won't even think about level and gear. This way the story won't be never ending, but the stories to be told will be."
If the game takes that route, then theres nothing that set it apart from any other MMO. Thats what people are fighting against here. Bioware is in a unique position to actually compete with WoW and offer some new things for the MMO market, especially with a story driven MMO experience. But not if it follows WoW modle in all other aspects and has the same style of end game.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion.
I thought SWG sucked.
Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked.
Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it.
I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion.
Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
vanguard, wow, lotro, all have better crafting.
I love to craft items, I hated crafting in SWG.
My initial reaction was really bad because I played a doc. Even after that was modified it still was not fun.
Hell even Istaria had a better crafting system than SWG.
Like you said it's just my opinion. I wasn't lying I'm being dead serious. I hated SWG and everything about it.
err no swg still has the best crafting in any mmo
Your opinion. I think you're wrong.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
has there even been any information released on crafting in swTOR? so far i haven't heard anything. i wouldn't expect it to be as good as SWG's crafting, just something with more depth then WoW's.
The only thing about crafting that we know is simply that there WILL be crafting and BioWare are trying to come up with a way to make it much more 'fun' and interesting than previous games... but reall, it's all PR talk atm and nothing really concrete yet.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Lets see:
Crafting is for ME .... why? because i have the time to do it SOLO..... why because i am retired and can play as i want or when i want, Crafting is time consuming if you are not in a Guild and even if you are in a Guild.
Most Saturday Players do not have the time to Craft, but some do Harvest enough to get the Smithy to make there items for them.
The reason i like crafting is just this...... I get to see every damn place in the game because i have to harvest my own materials which is just JIMDANDY and fine by me. (EXCEPTIONS) if it's a PvP game you wont see me their. (RvR) you will.
PS:
Yes i love getting lost to, nothing like being lost and running smack dab into a Wolf in the middle of nowhere with a Backpack full of Goodies.
Sorry man we already knew this wouldn't be a sandbox like SWG.
This is going to be a heavily story driven game with a ton of minigames to reach out to as many different types of players as possible.
sorry
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
my hope is that we can have both. Why not make a dynamic story-themed MMO with sandbox elements. Give me the great story, I dont object to that. Heck, I loved KOTOR. But KOTOR style doesnt make for a lasting MMO experience.
I want an MMO that gives me a home for 5+ years. Im tired of playing short but entertaining MMO's. And when I read statements from Bioware where they say they want to give us a cinematic entertaining experience it scares me. That translates to me into a game I can beat and then cancel
I have been trolling around the official forums since the game was announced, and yeah, the first 3 weeks was comprised with rabid SWG vets screaming threats and dire predictions if this game wasn't exactly like SWG (except better) and others telling them to shut up. Since then it has been wild speculation about all kinds of junk, with the occasional threat or demand from teh hardcorez.
Bioware seems pretty solid, I've enjoyed most of what they've put out. I for one am more than happy to watch and see what they do instead of rattling my saber and wishing for sequel to a game that failed despite the fact it should have been a licence to print money. I did play SWG and I did enjoy it, but the "sandbox" design allowed SOE to cover up a lot of design flaws. Like the 1/2 finished quest lines and complete lack of content.
One thing I hope they don't do is a political system and player housing. Aimlessly wandering the galaxy trying to find the items from shops that were in cities that may or may not have been abandoned was irritating. The political system was just lame (IMO).
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
if crafting is a chore then simply dont do it.
And while it is conjecture and opinion I think the majority who tried it would agree SWG had the best crafting system of any MMO ever
name me another game which i could customize that weapons speed, damage, action use, etc and cutomize every factor of that weapons stats depending on where i wanted to put my experimentation points into. Or armor i could customize it's resistance, encumberance, color, etc on? or food which i could control fill, duration, bonuses? none...theres no game which even comes close to swg crafting.
I never said WoW was dying. I dont even say I dislike theme park games. Im saying why not give us both styles. Wouldnt a virtual world sandbox game with theme park rides and a great ever-evolving storyline be the most amazing MMO ever designed ?
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
says who? you?
me personally i am very intrigued by a story driven mmorpg, and if they do it right, it could keep me hooked for a very very long time. One of the things i enjoyed about lotro is the story line, now make that so i can influence it, i would drool over it.
and they said your actions will influence the story....so how is this not a dream come true for people who like to write their own stories, you influence it, you write it......that sounds pretty good to me.
it does sound good....
for a single player game.
For an MMO, im not convinced.
Add in that pet addition where everyone will have a sidekick to assist them and this game sounds more like a single player experience than an MMO. How silly is it going to be hanging around a town with your sidekick and 300 other people with the very same sidekick also.