yes, but sidekicks will leave you or make other decisions based on what you decide and your path. It sounds like they are more intrinsic in the story line than rather combat.
I love how alot of pre-cu whiners are still left who complained "I wanna be uncle owne and make my own story" and now that you can, you are still whining. Pretend this game does not have Star wars attached to it, because it is NOT swg.
I know I'm going to upset a lot of SWG vets here but oh well, this is my opinion. I thought SWG sucked. Before they changed it, it sucked. After they changed it, it sucked. I beta tested it. Beyond my initial kewlness reaction to how neat wookies looked, I had nothing good to say. Gameplay sucked. Crafting sucked. Storyline sucked. Community was good because we were all SW fans. There's my one good thing to say about it. I hope Bioware makes a game that is NOTHING like SWG. SWG is a failure. Biowares SW games have been successful because they DID NOT follow the template of SWG. Everyone I know agrees with me on this, I'm sure a lot of you do not. Again it's just my opinion. Here's hoping Bioware continues making successful games.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
if crafting is a chore then simply dont do it.
And while it is conjecture and opinion I think the majority who tried it would agree SWG had the best crafting system of any MMO ever
Point being "it's not a lie". Both of you have opinions and both are obviously subjective.
And since I actually know a person who essentially had the same opinion as that gentleman, who levelled a character to a decent level only to start questioning what the heck he was doing in SWG then I think it's a very valid opinion.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I have been trolling around the official forums since the game was announced, and yeah, the first 3 weeks was comprised with rabid SWG vets screaming threats and dire predictions if this game wasn't exactly like SWG (except better) and others telling them to shut up. Since then it has been wild speculation about all kinds of junk, with the occasional threat or demand from teh hardcorez.
Bioware seems pretty solid, I've enjoyed most of what they've put out. I for one am more than happy to watch and see what they do instead of rattling my saber and wishing for sequel to a game that failed despite the fact it should have been a licence to print money. I did play SWG and I did enjoy it, but the "sandbox" design allowed SOE to cover up a lot of design flaws. Like the 1/2 finished quest lines and complete lack of content.
One thing I hope they don't do is a political system and player housing. Aimlessly wandering the galaxy trying to find the items from shops that were in cities that may or may not have been abandoned was irritating. The political system was just lame (IMO).
I agree with pretty much with all you said. I would like to see some form of player housing, but I think the player run cites idea fell short due over use in constructing them, under use in functionality. A better idea would be guild halls and ships with most of the functions of player cities that could serve as a central meeting location for guilded players.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Till, love ya like a brother from another mother, but I have to whole-heartedly disagree with your statement here. From what they have told us so far as to what elements they are putting in the game the only part that I was waiting to here about was the crafting part. The remarks by Vogel in his interview when asked about crafting paired with a couple of words about philopshy in general by Walton have pretty much assured me that this game has nothing for me. There won't be something for everyone in TOR and while it is fair to say that about every game, true, we are talking specifically about TOR here. Crafting in an MMO should not be comparable in scope/breadth to, oh, say the crafting available in the Neverwinter Nights series of games. Crafting in those games, if you put things in pie format (mmm, pie) was maybe 10 to 15 percent of the overall game pie. Crafting in SWG (pre NGE) was probably 35 to 40 percent of the overall game pie with the number of different things you could make and dynamic resources fitting into the crafting equation, etc. Creation and building..."things" is apart of a world. A strong aspect of that part of "living in any world" should be a desirable trait that any MMO company, no matter the license, should strive for. To date, the only crafting systems that have made it into that ballpark are SWG(pre NGE), UO, AC1, EQ1 (I'm thinking about all the combinations that could happen with making arrows as an example) and EvE. It's unfortunate, but crafting has become a red-headed step child (no offense to you forum goers who fit that description) mechanic in this genre. Notice in the games I mention 3 of the 5 are first generation games and the remaining two are second. None of the recent games can compare to the scope these games offered in that area in my opinion.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
has there even been any information released on crafting in swTOR? so far i haven't heard anything. i wouldn't expect it to be as good as SWG's crafting, just something with more depth then WoW's.
Vogel has stated that whatever crafting is in the game, it will be such that it does not interefere with players being heroic. Basically, crafting will be such that it won't "get in the way". I'd argue, though, that there was some "getting in the way" elements of the crafting systems in the games that are held as having the best systems out there. Vogel's words sound to me as if saying it (crafting) will be implemented in the token manner that is is the minimal expected because this game is in the MMO genre. My feeling is, if that's all you got, why implement any crafting system at all. *shrug* Below is an excert from that interview with regard to crafting.
You can't talk about classes in particular, but are you going to include anything in the game that isn't combat oriented? Smugglers, tradesmen, that sort of thing.
Gordon(Walton): We will definitely have crafting.
Rich(Vogel): The core classes we'll start off with will be based off or heroic, combat oriented experiences ... Star Wars, right? We are going to have crafting, because that's a big part of MMOs. We're going to implement crafting in a way that 'feels' right for Star Wars. For the longest time we struggled with that. You know, crafting at its heart is not really what the universe is about. But one of the designers came up with a great idea, which I can't talk about because it's not implemented yet, of how to incorporate crafting into Star Wars without forcing a hero to do something that's very non-heroic.
What about the tradition of Jedi crafting their own lightsabers?
Rich(Vogel): With the way that MMOs work, gaining and upgrading loot over levels, you're not going to end the game with the same lightsaber you started with. That might mean a succession of different lightsabers ...
James Olen, Studio Creative Director: Yeah, our game is about loot. There are things in our game that as you progress you definitely can tell a new player from a high-level player.
Maby they dont have a long time appeal. But I hope its entertaining for at least a month.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by Abrahmm Let me see if I can do some "hanshotfirst math" here. Take the 200,000 people that still played when the NGE came out.... add 10,000 people per month for the two years the game was out before that... So SWG had 440,000 subscribers a few months after launch? Oh wait, we have to double it because "it lost over half of it's subscription base shortly after launch"... OMG! SWG had OVER 900,000 initial subscriptions??? I had no idea!!! Please, make up some more numbers. (BTW, The theme park version of SWG bleed off about 50,000 subscribers a month until it had no more to bleed).
Um, my source for those "made up numbers" was Dan Rubenfield. Name sound familiar? It should. He wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system, combat model for JTL, original Jedi system, and more for the game you're so fond of. He was one of the lead designers of SWG and Ultima Online.
But don't take my word for it. Read his own blog for yourself...
Why shouldnt bioware do what they do best? Why dont let other companies do sandboxes and let thoose who are great at storytelling do games based on story? Yes! Exactly.
BioWare are great storytellers. Hell, they even managed to make an interesting Sonic the Hedgehog game, for chrissakes. Why shouldn't they play to their strengths in an MMO? Multiple storylines, lots of quests and loads of possibilities depending on your actions the game? Sounds good to me. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
Why shouldnt bioware do what they do best? Why dont let other companies do sandboxes and let thoose who are great at storytelling do games based on story? Yes! Exactly.
BioWare are great storytellers. Hell, they even managed to make an interesting Sonic the Hedgehog game, for chrissakes. Why shouldn't they play to their strengths in an MMO? Multiple storylines, lots of quests and loads of possibilities depending on your actions the game? Sounds good to me. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
Why shouldnt bioware do what they do best? Why dont let other companies do sandboxes and let thoose who are great at storytelling do games based on story? Yes! Exactly.
BioWare are great storytellers. Hell, they even managed to make an interesting Sonic the Hedgehog game, for chrissakes. Why shouldn't they play to their strengths in an MMO? Multiple storylines, lots of quests and loads of possibilities depending on your actions the game? Sounds good to me. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
And RvR, PvP, Raiding and socializing does not count as "more"?
Seriously, we have heard way too little about the RvR and PvP aspects, or any othe other apects really to make assumptions like you do. We know they will do RvR and PvP though. So there is already more than you are alluding to.
Originally posted by Abrahmm Let me see if I can do some "hanshotfirst math" here. Take the 200,000 people that still played when the NGE came out.... add 10,000 people per month for the two years the game was out before that... So SWG had 440,000 subscribers a few months after launch? Oh wait, we have to double it because "it lost over half of it's subscription base shortly after launch"... OMG! SWG had OVER 900,000 initial subscriptions??? I had no idea!!! Please, make up some more numbers. (BTW, The theme park version of SWG bleed off about 50,000 subscribers a month until it had no more to bleed).
Um, my source for those "made up numbers" was Dan Rubenfield. Name sound familiar? It should. He wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system, combat model for JTL, original Jedi system, and more for the game you're so fond of. He was one of the lead designers of SWG and Ultima Online.
But don't take my word for it. Read his own blog for yourself...
"We were greedy. We deemed 200k subs not worthy and wanted more(even though only a couple of games were stable passed that mark). The game you guys thought you liked a lot, mainly SWG pre-NGE and UO pre-Trammel, actually sucked. We made a mistake pushing the class changes like but the targetting system was leet. Exaggerated sub number decline."
There, think I got the jist of it? And if you can't tell he is clearly exaggerating the amount of subs lost as he claims "everyone quit" after launch, which is clearly not true, and not even close to true. But whatever, believe what you like.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
vanguard, wow, lotro, all have better crafting. I love to craft items, I hated crafting in SWG. My initial reaction was really bad because I played a doc. Even after that was modified it still was not fun. Hell even Istaria had a better crafting system than SWG.
Like you said it's just my opinion. I wasn't lying I'm being dead serious. I hated SWG and everything about it.
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
I have to agree with Abrahmm and I normally don't. I truly believe that you are off your rocker! SWG had the BEST crafting engine I have seen. Where quality of the ingredients often determined the quality of the item. I would say that the Crafting Engine in SWG was very intuitive than most that I have experienced in other MMO's. So, you are right, it is a matter of opinion but I would guarantee that there are others that would agree that SWG had one of the better ideas on how to craft.
In star wars galaxies I wrote my own book. I made my own story. I quested if i wanted. Hunted for resources to fill a contract from a crafter. I did pvp if a bounty hunter dared find me. I explored the depths of each planet. The story never ended. The Old Republic sounds like the complete opposite of that. Im reading someone else' book. Im following their story. Yes i can choose different story arcs within that story, but its still someone else tale. And once I complete that last quest the story ends (and thus the game for me) The worst part is Im forced into the role of "hero" I dont want to be the hero and I dont want to be forced to quest. SWG worked because it gave us both options. There were quests but the npc didnt have those "hey talk to me" marks above their heads. You actually had to explore and find the npcs that ga ve out quests. Or you could just skip questing alltogether and do your own thing. Bioware is making the same mistake Funcom did with Age of Conan. The game was great for the first 20 levels but once the story fizzled so did the game. In short, no developer can make a theme park experience fun forever unless they constantly add content every week. Sorry Bioware, I love your single player games but this is a different animal. In MMO's I want to play in a virtual world, not be some hero clone like everyone else.
I sure hope Bioware reconsiders this whole story-driven Im the hero theme
Speak for yourself. Professional crafted stories beat amateur attempt 100% of the time. I would rather consume Bioware created content than anything created by amateurs, and that include myself. Don't confuse customization (which i like) to work i have to do to create stories.
Yeah, it won't last forever but no games do. I am not looking for a world but a nice set of entertainment for 6-12 months (or longer if they have good content).
I truly think everyone needs to take a chill on TOR. Any and all information that the devs release, can be turned ,twisted and perceived in multiple ways. Yes, Bioware is creating a very heavy story driven game, which is not linear, their words not mine.
Yes there will be crafting, their words not mine, but crafting that fits into the old republic timeline with a heroic flavor. The timeline that has scores and scores of jedi and sith force users as well as bounty hunters, soilders, smugglers, and whatever.
We all can agree that TOR will not have soley combat and or crafting proffessions. Probably a little of both. Force users will probably be able to create new sabers with differant materials as well as other classes being able to build better ranged weapons and or melee ones.
I can also see players not only being able to play as a droid, but obtaining the materials to build one as well. See my opinion, your opinion, it's all speculative and guessing.
The biggest thing i never had to do was fight within myself when playing SWG. I was a SW fan first and a gamer second. To be brutally honest. SWG only captured, to me atleast about 30% SW feeling and attitude. The rest was pure sandbox gameplay stuff.
From both KOTOR games to Jedi Knight 2 outcast. They had 100% SW feeling just wrapped up in a single player system. So my point being. If Bioware can make TOR feel like those games and do it within a mmorpg system and have sprinkles of sandbox thrown in, the game should do very well.
The one thing that i'm 100% positive about, Bioware is a top notch game company and has never delivered a bad game. This one should be no differant.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
Why? All popular MMO has "end game" content. Content is obivously NOT infinite. Sooner or later, no matter how big a MMO is, you will exhaust its content.
Don't delude yourself that MMOs are supposed to be virtual worlds. They are NOT. They are just more content with social interactions thrown in .. and in teh core .. games. They are NOT going to last forever ..though a lot longer than a single palyer ones.
LOTRO has the right model ... you play for the month whenever there is new content and go away when u consume it.
Bioware, the master storytellers that they are, will be master of this kind of model.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
Because it's impossible to create a true sandbox MMO with an established IP. That's why. The KOTOR games are an established franchise with an established canon that they created to fit the Star Wars mythos. The fact that the game takes place thousands of years before Vader, Yoda, and all the familiar SW characters gives BioWare more creative freedom, since, unlike SWG, a bunch of Jedi running around makes sense, but it's still a storybook.
The difference here is that the storybook will be far more interactive, with your choices having a greater impact on your character's development and experiences as you advance.
Honestly, given BioWare's talent for making great games with compelling storylines and scripting, I don't see why they should abandon that for this MMO. They should play to their strengths.
vanguard, wow, lotro, all have better crafting. I love to craft items, I hated crafting in SWG. My initial reaction was really bad because I played a doc. Even after that was modified it still was not fun. Hell even Istaria had a better crafting system than SWG.
Like you said it's just my opinion. I wasn't lying I'm being dead serious. I hated SWG and everything about it.
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
I have to agree with Abrahmm and I normally don't. I truly believe that you are off your rocker! SWG had the BEST crafting engine I have seen. Where quality of the ingredients often determined the quality of the item. I would say that the Crafting Engine in SWG was very intuitive than most that I have experienced in other MMO's. So, you are right, it is a matter of opinion but I would guarantee that there are others that would agree that SWG had one of the better ideas on how to craft.
*raises hand*
If a company is making an online world and not an online game, they would be fools not to look at that crafting system and try to replicate it. That system transcends the SW IP and would be great in any IP online world.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
The entire premise is dodgy at best, not to mention contradictory. Let me see if I can summarize...
Story-driven content is finite. Therefore, once that content has been exhausted, the playerbase will lose interest, subscription retention will falter, and inevitably, the game will shutdown and wither into obscurity.
So what's the alternate proposition? Limit or abolish story-driven content? Have the game stand alone on the merits of resource gathering, crafting, and PvP? Or in other words, create a game so devoid of content from its very inception that no one misses it?
Apparently (at least according to the swgemos ), you only get a good 'sandbox' type mmo by removing all the quests and storylines and putting in mission kiosks. That makes it less linear because you aren't 'railroaded' into a certain playstyle.
Originally posted by hanshotfirst The entire premise is dodgy at best, not to mention contradictory. Let me see if I can summarize...Story-driven content is finite. Therefore, once that content has been exhausted, the playerbase will lose interest, subscription retention will falter, and inevitably, the game will shutdown and wither into obscurity.So what's the alternate proposition? Limit or abolish story-driven content? Have the game stand alone on the merits of resource gathering, crafting, and PvP? Or in other words, create a game so devoid of content from its very inception that no one misses it?
Nope. Keep the story-driven themepark, but layer it on top of a nice sandbox.
So that when the story is done, there is still plenty to do.
Isnt that what content updates are for? And even when I finished the whole story for instance Northrend in WoW, I just run through dungeons, raise my crafting, raid, PvP sometimes or help low lvls till the next patch comes which is going to open up more story and dungeons like Icecrown Citadel where Lich King is.
And I bet bioware can even make more content in less time thanks to the hero engine.
The entire premise is dodgy at best, not to mention contradictory. Let me see if I can summarize...
Story-driven content is finite. Therefore, once that content has been exhausted, the playerbase will lose interest, subscription retention will falter, and inevitably, the game will shutdown and wither into obscurity.
So what's the alternate proposition? Limit or abolish story-driven content? Have the game stand alone on the merits of resource gathering, crafting, and PvP? Or in other words, create a game so devoid of content from its very inception that no one misses it?
Hmm .. no alternate proposition is needed. Games don't last for ever. If it last for 6 months .. great .. and i am sure they will make back their investment.
I'm not sure of any story driven MMOs. I know of a ton of MMOs with boring quest that go nowhere once you've finished that quest. I think the OP is confusing quest driven leveling, with a story driven MMO(which as of it doesn't exist).
I'm not sure of any story driven MMOs. I know of a ton of MMOs with boring quest that go nowhere once you've finished that quest. I think the OP is confusing quest driven leveling, with a story driven MMO(which as of it doesn't exist).
Yeah, a truly story driven MMO does not exist. This will be something new to try out.
Oh I'm not sure I'd entirely agree. LotRO, AoC, and Guild Wars (if you consider that an MMO) all at least tried to weave story telling into their games... some with more success than others. But none I can think of gave you choices and branching arcs as ToR is promising. I'm cautiously optimistic that if Bioware pulls this off, it will be something worth while.
Comments
yes, but sidekicks will leave you or make other decisions based on what you decide and your path. It sounds like they are more intrinsic in the story line than rather combat.
I love how alot of pre-cu whiners are still left who complained "I wanna be uncle owne and make my own story" and now that you can, you are still whining. Pretend this game does not have Star wars attached to it, because it is NOT swg.
It's fine if you didn't like the game, as that is your opinion, but saying the crafting sucked is a blatent lie. Name one MMO with better crafting, because I've never found one.
Well, wait a minute, isn't that completely subjective? It's not a "lie" for certain.
I personally have never played any game where I felt that crafting was fun. All crafting is chore for me. A friend played SWG pre-nge and made his ingame lively hood by crafting and he told me the entire experience was like having a second job and left the game.
if crafting is a chore then simply dont do it.
And while it is conjecture and opinion I think the majority who tried it would agree SWG had the best crafting system of any MMO ever
Point being "it's not a lie". Both of you have opinions and both are obviously subjective.
And since I actually know a person who essentially had the same opinion as that gentleman, who levelled a character to a decent level only to start questioning what the heck he was doing in SWG then I think it's a very valid opinion.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree with pretty much with all you said. I would like to see some form of player housing, but I think the player run cites idea fell short due over use in constructing them, under use in functionality. A better idea would be guild halls and ships with most of the functions of player cities that could serve as a central meeting location for guilded players.
You just have to take every game for what it is, I wouldn't mind playing a story driven themepark game and a sandbox game at the same time (well, not exactly at the same time but you know what I mean).
I do agree that player created content is fun and that crafting have declined instead of evolved in the later year. And why can't I decide how things should look since I make it?
But that doesn't really mean TOR will be a bad game, to me it seems like few games will offer everything I want in a game so I just might have to play 2 games, it is kinda like playing a FPS and a RTS game because it offers different things which are both good in their way.
I rather have a great storydriven game or sandbox game then a watered down middle version, of course a game with everything in would be best but the question is if that even is possible? I don't really mind paying or 2 games as long as I have a good time in them.
But TOR or any other game will not be for everyone, not even Wow is for everyone however it tries to be, that is just impossible since we like different things.
has there even been any information released on crafting in swTOR? so far i haven't heard anything. i wouldn't expect it to be as good as SWG's crafting, just something with more depth then WoW's.
Vogel has stated that whatever crafting is in the game, it will be such that it does not interefere with players being heroic. Basically, crafting will be such that it won't "get in the way". I'd argue, though, that there was some "getting in the way" elements of the crafting systems in the games that are held as having the best systems out there. Vogel's words sound to me as if saying it (crafting) will be implemented in the token manner that is is the minimal expected because this game is in the MMO genre. My feeling is, if that's all you got, why implement any crafting system at all. *shrug* Below is an excert from that interview with regard to crafting.
You can't talk about classes in particular, but are you going to include anything in the game that isn't combat oriented? Smugglers, tradesmen, that sort of thing.
Gordon(Walton): We will definitely have crafting.
Rich(Vogel): The core classes we'll start off with will be based off or heroic, combat oriented experiences ... Star Wars, right? We are going to have crafting, because that's a big part of MMOs. We're going to implement crafting in a way that 'feels' right for Star Wars. For the longest time we struggled with that. You know, crafting at its heart is not really what the universe is about. But one of the designers came up with a great idea, which I can't talk about because it's not implemented yet, of how to incorporate crafting into Star Wars without forcing a hero to do something that's very non-heroic.
What about the tradition of Jedi crafting their own lightsabers?
Rich(Vogel): With the way that MMOs work, gaining and upgrading loot over levels, you're not going to end the game with the same lightsaber you started with. That might mean a succession of different lightsabers ...
James Olen, Studio Creative Director: Yeah, our game is about loot. There are things in our game that as you progress you definitely can tell a new player from a high-level player.
Link to full interview
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Maby they dont have a long time appeal. But I hope its entertaining for at least a month.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Um, my source for those "made up numbers" was Dan Rubenfield. Name sound familiar? It should. He wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system, combat model for JTL, original Jedi system, and more for the game you're so fond of. He was one of the lead designers of SWG and Ultima Online.
But don't take my word for it. Read his own blog for yourself...
http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
Oh and om nom nom.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
And RvR, PvP, Raiding and socializing does not count as "more"?
Seriously, we have heard way too little about the RvR and PvP aspects, or any othe other apects really to make assumptions like you do. We know they will do RvR and PvP though. So there is already more than you are alluding to.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Um, my source for those "made up numbers" was Dan Rubenfield. Name sound familiar? It should. He wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system, combat model for JTL, original Jedi system, and more for the game you're so fond of. He was one of the lead designers of SWG and Ultima Online.
But don't take my word for it. Read his own blog for yourself...
http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
Oh and om nom nom.
I can sum up that blog in a few sentences.
"We were greedy. We deemed 200k subs not worthy and wanted more(even though only a couple of games were stable passed that mark). The game you guys thought you liked a lot, mainly SWG pre-NGE and UO pre-Trammel, actually sucked. We made a mistake pushing the class changes like but the targetting system was leet. Exaggerated sub number decline."
There, think I got the jist of it? And if you can't tell he is clearly exaggerating the amount of subs lost as he claims "everyone quit" after launch, which is clearly not true, and not even close to true. But whatever, believe what you like.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
I have to agree with Abrahmm and I normally don't. I truly believe that you are off your rocker!
SWG had the BEST crafting engine I have seen. Where quality of the ingredients often determined the quality of the item. I would say that the Crafting Engine in SWG was very intuitive than most that I have experienced in other MMO's. So, you are right, it is a matter of opinion but I would guarantee that there are others that would agree that SWG had one of the better ideas on how to craft.
Speak for yourself. Professional crafted stories beat amateur attempt 100% of the time. I would rather consume Bioware created content than anything created by amateurs, and that include myself. Don't confuse customization (which i like) to work i have to do to create stories.
Yeah, it won't last forever but no games do. I am not looking for a world but a nice set of entertainment for 6-12 months (or longer if they have good content).
I truly think everyone needs to take a chill on TOR. Any and all information that the devs release, can be turned ,twisted and perceived in multiple ways. Yes, Bioware is creating a very heavy story driven game, which is not linear, their words not mine.
Yes there will be crafting, their words not mine, but crafting that fits into the old republic timeline with a heroic flavor. The timeline that has scores and scores of jedi and sith force users as well as bounty hunters, soilders, smugglers, and whatever.
We all can agree that TOR will not have soley combat and or crafting proffessions. Probably a little of both. Force users will probably be able to create new sabers with differant materials as well as other classes being able to build better ranged weapons and or melee ones.
I can also see players not only being able to play as a droid, but obtaining the materials to build one as well. See my opinion, your opinion, it's all speculative and guessing.
The biggest thing i never had to do was fight within myself when playing SWG. I was a SW fan first and a gamer second. To be brutally honest. SWG only captured, to me atleast about 30% SW feeling and attitude. The rest was pure sandbox gameplay stuff.
From both KOTOR games to Jedi Knight 2 outcast. They had 100% SW feeling just wrapped up in a single player system. So my point being. If Bioware can make TOR feel like those games and do it within a mmorpg system and have sprinkles of sandbox thrown in, the game should do very well.
The one thing that i'm 100% positive about, Bioware is a top notch game company and has never delivered a bad game. This one should be no differant.
because its an MMO there shouldnt be an ending. Stories have endings. Im not saying they cant do a great story but the game needs more. Unless Bioware plans on adding new stories every single week players will run out of things to do.
Look at LOTR. Great game with a great story. Myself and most of my friends subscribe for a month whenever Turbine adds a new Book of quests. We blow those out in 3-4 days and cancel to await a few months when Turbine adds some more. There really isnt anything else to do.
Why cant Bioware allow for sandbox gameplay and stories ? Its great to be the hero in a single player rpg but quite lame for an MMO.
Why? All popular MMO has "end game" content. Content is obivously NOT infinite. Sooner or later, no matter how big a MMO is, you will exhaust its content.
Don't delude yourself that MMOs are supposed to be virtual worlds. They are NOT. They are just more content with social interactions thrown in .. and in teh core .. games. They are NOT going to last forever ..though a lot longer than a single palyer ones.
LOTRO has the right model ... you play for the month whenever there is new content and go away when u consume it.
Bioware, the master storytellers that they are, will be master of this kind of model.
Because it's impossible to create a true sandbox MMO with an established IP. That's why. The KOTOR games are an established franchise with an established canon that they created to fit the Star Wars mythos. The fact that the game takes place thousands of years before Vader, Yoda, and all the familiar SW characters gives BioWare more creative freedom, since, unlike SWG, a bunch of Jedi running around makes sense, but it's still a storybook.
The difference here is that the storybook will be far more interactive, with your choices having a greater impact on your character's development and experiences as you advance.
Honestly, given BioWare's talent for making great games with compelling storylines and scripting, I don't see why they should abandon that for this MMO. They should play to their strengths.
If you think WoW had better crafting than SWG, then you don't actually like making unique and personalized items, you simply like dragging static items from one box to another. How could you think WoW has better crafting? WoW's crafting requires absolutely no thought at all. Just drag, drop, create, bingo an item identical to anyone else that has that pattern. Where is the fun in that? How is that creative at all?
I have to agree with Abrahmm and I normally don't. I truly believe that you are off your rocker!
SWG had the BEST crafting engine I have seen. Where quality of the ingredients often determined the quality of the item. I would say that the Crafting Engine in SWG was very intuitive than most that I have experienced in other MMO's. So, you are right, it is a matter of opinion but I would guarantee that there are others that would agree that SWG had one of the better ideas on how to craft.
*raises hand*
If a company is making an online world and not an online game, they would be fools not to look at that crafting system and try to replicate it. That system transcends the SW IP and would be great in any IP online world.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
The entire premise is dodgy at best, not to mention contradictory. Let me see if I can summarize...
Story-driven content is finite. Therefore, once that content has been exhausted, the playerbase will lose interest, subscription retention will falter, and inevitably, the game will shutdown and wither into obscurity.
So what's the alternate proposition? Limit or abolish story-driven content? Have the game stand alone on the merits of resource gathering, crafting, and PvP? Or in other words, create a game so devoid of content from its very inception that no one misses it?
I personally beleive that the only "sandbox" MMO that is succesful out there i Eve.
The only downfall of a story in anygame..... is that there must always be a end. Especially an MMO.
You either have to keep on adding and extending the story line, or give it an end and continue with a new one in another universe.
"I need you to defeat that big old mean sith thats killing everything"
"yay! your a hero!"
"theres a new sith that raised in another universe, pay a couple bucks to the company and start your new adventure!"
..... havn't i herd that before?
I myself would love Starwars: Old Republic to be a "sandbox" MMO.
Flying around on your own space craft, exploring the universe, destroying space pirates or becoming one.
Apparently (at least according to the swgemos ), you only get a good 'sandbox' type mmo by removing all the quests and storylines and putting in mission kiosks. That makes it less linear because you aren't 'railroaded' into a certain playstyle.
Nope. Keep the story-driven themepark, but layer it on top of a nice sandbox.
So that when the story is done, there is still plenty to do.
It seems pretty obvious, really.
Isnt that what content updates are for? And even when I finished the whole story for instance Northrend in WoW, I just run through dungeons, raise my crafting, raid, PvP sometimes or help low lvls till the next patch comes which is going to open up more story and dungeons like Icecrown Citadel where Lich King is.
And I bet bioware can even make more content in less time thanks to the hero engine.
Hmm .. no alternate proposition is needed. Games don't last for ever. If it last for 6 months .. great .. and i am sure they will make back their investment.
I'm not sure of any story driven MMOs. I know of a ton of MMOs with boring quest that go nowhere once you've finished that quest. I think the OP is confusing quest driven leveling, with a story driven MMO(which as of it doesn't exist).
Yeah, a truly story driven MMO does not exist. This will be something new to try out.
Oh I'm not sure I'd entirely agree. LotRO, AoC, and Guild Wars (if you consider that an MMO) all at least tried to weave story telling into their games... some with more success than others. But none I can think of gave you choices and branching arcs as ToR is promising. I'm cautiously optimistic that if Bioware pulls this off, it will be something worth while.