Wow, the fanbois just don't get it. An NDA is a contract between two people, and is nothing more than a code of conduct. The only way Adventurine could come after you is to sue, and the US would not even think about extraditing a person to greece unless there was a court order ( i.e. a warrant ). I don't know how it works in greece, but good luck trying to convince a judge that player may have committed the act. Kind of hard when no IP in the United States will hand over their customer's data without a court appearance.
Originally posted by Lidane Your argument is flawed. Texas and New York are part of the same country, ergo the laws are similar. If I'm told to pay damages in Greece, and without proof that I did anything wrong (since Aventurine miraculously doesn't have to provide proof of anything), but I live in and am a citizen of Germany, I'd hire a lawyer to fight that order, just due to jurisdiction. Last I checked, the EU didn't erase the sovereignty of the individual countries. German citizens are not bound by Greek law. They're bound by German law. Aventurine would have to prove jurisdiction to enforce their NDA, and that's no simple task.
I think you are failing to realise how integrated the EU is . On my UK passport it says that I am citizen of the European Union, the highest court is the EU court, a bit like your Federal Court. I can't break laws in other EU countries and try to fight them in UK and stand any chance of success.
Aye they fail to understand this. Its like talking to a wall.
But let them break the NDA and get caught. Its nobodies fault but their own. I bet that guy that posted that Dragon screenie wish he didnt. Poor guy.
I think you are failing to realise how integrated the EU is . On my UK passport it says that I am citizen of the European Union, the highest court is the EU court, a bit like your Federal Court. I can't break laws in other EU countries and try to fight them in UK and stand any chance of success.
I find it VERY difficult to believe that a UK court would simply roll over and allow a Greek court to impose a fine on you and demand money -- particularly without any proof of wrongdoing on your part by Aventurine -- and require you to pay it.
Sorry. I just don't see it happening. And the reactions from people over this are hysterical. I can't believe people are equating breaking an NDA for a video game with serious breaches of international law. I'm sitting here laughing at my desk.
The European Arrest Warrant was introduced into force on 1st January 2004. All that is required for the deportation of a suspect under an EAW is basic information about their identity and the alleged offence. There are thirty-two categories of crime for which extradition may be sought, some of them not specific offences under English law. There is no provision for a British court to be allowed to assure itself that there is a proper case for the accused to answer by means of examining prima facie evidence, and there is no provision for the magistrate hearing the extradition case, or indeed the Home Secretary, to have any discretion to refuse extradition if they believe or know that an injustice is being done. The safeguards against misuse are absolutely minimal: provided that the correct boxes have been filled in then a British citizen can be extradited to another EU member state with as much ceremony as posting a parcel.
If they can do the above are you saying they can't make me pay a fine?
Go ahead, break the legal document, just see how long it takes before you get a mail saying your to appear in court in a different country.
The moment I got a letter telling me to appear in court in another country, I'd be on the phone with my lawyer to see if there was even any legal standing for that letter at all.
Jurisdiction, guys. Learn it. Love it. You're acting as if Aventurine can hunt you down and have you extradited from whatever country you're in to an Athens courtroom for breaking the NDA, and it's not nearly that simple.
The European Arrest Warrant was introduced into force on 1st January 2004. All that is required for the deportation of a suspect under an EAW is basic information about their identity and the alleged offence. There are thirty-two categories of crime for which extradition may be sought, some of them not specific offences under English law.
That's all well and good, but you're still failing to grasp the concept of civil vs. criminal law.
An NDA is a civil contract, and an agreement between two people. Violating it is not going to get anywhere close to involving extradition or any criminal charges anywhere. You guys are blowing this all waaaaaay out of proportion.
Just imagine the international outcry if Greece tried to extradite someone from another country over a video game, and when that person didn't pirate the game, steal the source code, or otherwise commit a real criminal offense. Think about it rationally. Do you REALLY think anyone would go through the time and effort of it all over a video game NDA? Come on. Don't be stupid.
Sorry. I just don't see it happening. And the reactions from people over this are hysterical. I can't believe people are equating breaking an NDA for a video game with serious breaches of international law. I'm sitting here laughing at my desk.
Well, this is what happens when armchair lawyers start spewing forth BS about a topic that they really don't know anything about.
I would LOVE any of you to try and find an attorney willing to take a case about a 'NDA Breach' over a MMORPG to court.
breaking an NDA Is breaking a legal document, if you are a lawyer I strongly suggest you go back to law school and retake the BAR. Just because it seems trivial to you is not how it will be viewed by others, breaking a legal doccument is a serious offense, and it can result in legal action being taken, saying that nothing will happen or would happen to you is wishful thinking. Go ahead, break the legal document, just see how long it takes before you get a mail saying your to appear in court in a different country.
Lawl
I don't think I have ever read so much pseudo-legal jibba jabba in my life. There was maybe 1 or 2 people that had actual good points. Then there were a plethora of posts like this one...does anyone seriously think that you would get extradited to Greece from the US or even in the EU for breaking an NDA?
I'm giving most of you a lot of footing here by not saying that the NDA is garbage and they couldn't enforce it; lets assume that they can. How much would it cost to bring you there, and bring you to court?
Even if you lived in Greece, it would still cost them a lot of money to get you to show up. They'd have to waste time finding you, then more time building this "case", then even more time at trial with this airtight case of theirs. We can assume that they would not have an in-house attorney on this case, and I'll lowball the attorney's hourly billing -- lets say $200 an hour which is cheap for an experienced corporate attorney. It would be even more expensive for an attorney with international experience or even the proper credentials to try a case involving multiple countries.
Anyone honestly think that Aventurine has the funds or the wherewithal to spend months and thousands upon thousands of dollars to take this to trial? Even if they won, what would happen then? Considering there isn't much general knowledge about this game don't you think it would be hard to prove that the leak cost them any amount of game sales (MONEY)?
I conceded that it was illegal just to show you how unlikely this event is. Just to be clear I don't think breaking this NDA would ever result in legal action in any way.
The European Arrest Warrant was introduced into force on 1st January 2004. All that is required for the deportation of a suspect under an EAW is basic information about their identity and the alleged offence. There are thirty-two categories of crime for which extradition may be sought, some of them not specific offences under English law.
That's all well and good, but you're still failing to grasp the concept of civil vs. criminal law.
An NDA is a civil contract, and an agreement between two people. Violating it is not going to get anywhere close to involving extradition or any criminal charges anywhere. You guys are blowing this all waaaaaay out of proportion.
Just imagine the international outcry if Greece tried to extradite someone from another country over a video game, and when that person didn't pirate the game, steal the source code, or otherwise commit a real criminal offense. Think about it rationally. Do you REALLY think anyone would go through the time and effort of it all over a video game NDA? Come on. Don't be stupid.
In the end I find it interesting that people are arguing that breaking an agreement is ok because it's hard for anyone to do anything about it.
I wonder how much the same people would bitch and moan if someone broke an agreement on them that would be difficult to enforce.
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I understand that it is possible to catch who broke NDA when there is 10-20 people working on project. But now i heard numbers of hundreds and thousands of testers. That means they need invite outside people from other countries (probably). So you just write your reviews and send to other people to post. No one will ever catch you, and as Aventurine isnt even spending funds on marketing i doubt they will do investigations on NDA break. Of course it is pretty easy to catch those who share screenshots, just look at logs (i think they should have them because after all it is beta) and see who inflicted same damage or something and thats all.
But still even with hundreds of people testing there was only few leaks. you could hope for more fake leaks then there is overall of them...
Originally posted by Lidane That's all well and good, but you're still failing to grasp the concept of civil vs. criminal law. An NDA is a civil contract, and an agreement between two people. Violating it is not going to get anywhere close to involving extradition or any criminal charges anywhere. You guys are blowing this all waaaaaay out of proportion. Just imagine the international outcry if Greece tried to extradite someone from another country over a video game, and when that person didn't pirate the game, steal the source code, or otherwise commit a real criminal offense. Think about it rationally. Do you REALLY think anyone would go through the time and effort of it all over a video game NDA? Come on. Don't be stupid.
As I said previously if I was told to pay damages and I didn't it would not be a civil matter anymore, it would be criminal matter as I would be disobaying the court. Aventurine probably wouldn't bother, but if they did and I then refused to pay I can't see the Greek court not pursuing me as it would be an blatent insult to the judge and then it would be a criminal offence. If Aventurine then said no don't bother with it wouldn't matter because it would be out of their hands.
Also they can send international bailiffs to take my property, although they would probably use a British based company. I would have to pay the bailifs expenses as well.
People in Britain get screwed over speeding tickets in Europe, they wouldn't get away with this.
Britain isn't even signed up to all the EU laws, it's even more integrated in most of the EU.
Just to respond to a post I saw, court CAN take your money in your account and if you dont have any money in it, they can just take half of your weekly paycheck.
Let's say you rent your house and you dont pay. It is a violation of contrat and the owner can seize your salary. I know that well, my sister went there.
In the end I find it interesting that people are arguing that breaking an agreement is ok because it's hard for anyone to do anything about it. I wonder how much the same people would bitch and moan if someone broke an agreement on them that would be difficult to enforce.
Oh get off the high horse already. We get it, you don't think it is moral to break an agreement. Praise be the noble Sovrath.
Morality has little to do with legality however. They kind of sound the same, but are not very interdependent of one another.
This is pointless. Believe what you want. There is not precedent of extradition over an NDA violation. You would think with the millions of people that play video games and the minimum of hundreds of thousands that beta test if someone could be extradited over this offense they would have.
Please cite one precedent where someone has had criminal charges from an NDA for a BETA TEST! There is none because it is not breaking criminal law. The point about not paying... That would only occur after an INITIAL trial for civil damages. If you do not fight the case then you are an idiot.
The point I and the other few people have been making is it would not hold up in a civil trial. Aventurine would have to prove damages (highly unlikely) and then the court would have to determine what the value of that damage equates to.
Just because the NDA says Aventurine does not have to prove damages does not make it legally correct.
Some of you are acting like any NDA is law which it is not. It is a contract between two parties. The plantif would have to prove that the contract was violated and that damages occured from that violation. If that is not PROVEN then there would be no civil case. If a contract is violated often there are clauses in the contract that allows for termination. The same is true of this one. Aventurine holds the right to terminate the contract.
To even imply that a civil case of this nature would come to extradition or some kind of fugitive status is absurd. Only IF the defended lost the CIVIL case and then refused would it become a CRIMINAL issue. Until then there would be nothing to impose a warrant for arrest.
I have also shown where Aventurines own beta practices invalidate the NDA as they have bugs reported in a way THAT VIOLATES THEIR OWN NDA. You cannot hold some one liable under contract when you own processes force them to violate said contract.
The link that was provided about siezed assets, did anyone bother to read it... We are talking nazi war crimes versus a game NDA... are you kidding me?!?!
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
This is pointless. Believe what you want. There is not precedent of extradition over an NDA violation. You would think with the millions of people that play video games and the minimum of hundreds of thousands that beta test if someone could be extradited over this offense they would have. Please cite one precedent where someone has had criminal charges from an NDA for a BETA TEST! There is none because it is not breaking criminal law. The point about not paying... That would only occur after an INITIAL trial for civil damages. If you do not fight the case then you are an idiot. The point I and the other few people have been making is it would not hold up in a civil trial. Aventurine would have to prove damages (highly unlikely) and then the court would have to determine what the value of that damage equates to. Just because the NDA says Aventurine does not have to prove damages does not make it legally correct. Some of you are acting like any NDA is law which it is not. It is a contract between two parties. The plantif would have to prove that the contract was violated and that damages occured from that violation. If that is not PROVEN then there would be no civil case. If a contract is violated often there are clauses in the contract that allows for termination. The same is true of this one. Aventurine holds the right to terminate the contract. To even imply that a civil case of this nature would come to extradition or some kind of fugitive status is absurd. Only IF the defended lost the CIVIL case and then refused would it become a CRIMINAL issue. Until then there would be nothing to impose a warrant for arrest. I have also shown where Aventurines own beta practices invalidate the NDA as they have bugs reported in a way THAT VIOLATES THEIR OWN NDA. You cannot hold some one liable under contract when you own processes force them to violate said contract. The link that was provided about siezed assets, did anyone bother to read it... We are talking nazi war crimes versus a game NDA... are you kidding me?!?!
Once again your link has no relevence to what we are talking about. The kid in question had no NDA with Apple, He was not charged criminally, and there was no legal fault determined to set precedence.
So what exactly is your point with this?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Once again your link has no relevence to what we are talking about. The kid in question had no NDA with Apple, He was not charged criminally, and there was no legal fault determined to set precedence.
So what exactly is your point with this?
His lawyers must have advised him to settle otherwise he would not have done so. He had not even signed the NDA he was only reproducing the leaked info and they were obviously still not confident that they would win in court. The legal ramifications of losing in court and then refusing to comply should be obvious.
His lawyers must have advised him to settle otherwise he would not have done so.
Or perhaps Apple offered to settle given the beating their image was taking over the suit? Look at your article again:
When he was sued, he was still a teenager, aged 19, attending Harvard, a fact that added to Apple's image of being a bully for pursuing the case.
It was bad PR for Apple to hound this kid over something he published on a website, and a full trial would have made them look worse. Ergo, they opted for a settlement.
Why is it not relevent? It is a clear example of a company persuing somebody over leaked information.
The circumstances are different, for one. This kid posted about an upcoming Apple product on his website, which specialized in Apple rumors and info. You're trying to compare that to someone in a video game beta, when they're not the same.
Also, even your own source says that Apple going after this kid only looked like a bully becuase he was, in fact, just a kid when he started the site. It was bad PR an bad for their image to keep hounding the kid after almost three years, so they settled the case.
His lawyers must have advised him to settle otherwise he would not have done so.
Or perhaps Apple offered to settle given the beating their image was taking over the suit? Look at your article again:
When he was sued, he was still a teenager, aged 19, attending Harvard, a fact that added to Apple's image of being a bully for pursuing the case.
It was bad PR for Apple to hound this kid over something he published on a website, and a full trial would have made them look worse. Ergo, they opted for a settlement.
Settling is not just dropping the lawsuit, they have obtained something in return for not going to court. If they were worried about their image they could have dropped it and got nothing in return.
People get sued over NDA's all the time the fact that it's a video game is neither here nor there.
Settling is not just dropping the lawsuit, they have obtained something in return for not going to court. If they were worried about their image they could have dropped it and got nothing in return.
They DID get something in return. The kid shut his website down. Also, the kid didn't have to reveal his sources for the story, which was likely a concession from Apple to settle the suit. Didn't you even read the story you posted?
He agreed to shut down, there was an agreement that the sources for the story wouldn't be revealed, and Apple probably agreed to drop the suit and possibly even to pay his legal costs since they've got a lot of money and he's not even out of college yet.
Originally posted by Lidane That's entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nice try, though.
Why is it not relevent? It is a clear example of a company persuing somebody over leaked information.
1) There was no NDA.
2) The information leaked was about an electronic device. Possible that technical data was released that could be used to bypass a patent.
3) The site was a commercial business making revenue from this information not a tester.
4) The suit was settled out of court, but it does not say who recieved damages.
There is nothing that relates your linked case with one of a beta NDA. It is also a civil suit which only supports what we have been saying and not your arguments. The person who actually leaked the information was never determined and suffered no consequences for leaking the information.
However you want to slice that article it does nothing to support you arguments in this thread. The fact that you used this instead of a more relevent case only goes to show how unlikely it is that anyone would seek civil action over a beta NDA.
You have also no responded to my point that Aventurine has by their own action invalidated the NDA. Funny how that has been glazed over repeatedly.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Comments
That's fine. Personally, I reserve the right to laugh at that NDA and at the idea that anyone should be scared of it.
Wow, the fanbois just don't get it. An NDA is a contract between two people, and is nothing more than a code of conduct. The only way Adventurine could come after you is to sue, and the US would not even think about extraditing a person to greece unless there was a court order ( i.e. a warrant ). I don't know how it works in greece, but good luck trying to convince a judge that player may have committed the act. Kind of hard when no IP in the United States will hand over their customer's data without a court appearance.
I think you are failing to realise how integrated the EU is . On my UK passport it says that I am citizen of the European Union, the highest court is the EU court, a bit like your Federal Court. I can't break laws in other EU countries and try to fight them in UK and stand any chance of success.
Aye they fail to understand this. Its like talking to a wall.
But let them break the NDA and get caught. Its nobodies fault but their own. I bet that guy that posted that Dragon screenie wish he didnt. Poor guy.
I find it VERY difficult to believe that a UK court would simply roll over and allow a Greek court to impose a fine on you and demand money -- particularly without any proof of wrongdoing on your part by Aventurine -- and require you to pay it.
Sorry. I just don't see it happening. And the reactions from people over this are hysterical. I can't believe people are equating breaking an NDA for a video game with serious breaches of international law. I'm sitting here laughing at my desk.
The European Arrest Warrant was introduced into force on 1st January 2004. All that is required for the deportation of a suspect under an EAW is basic information about their identity and the alleged offence. There are thirty-two categories of crime for which extradition may be sought, some of them not specific offences under English law. There is no provision for a British court to be allowed to assure itself that there is a proper case for the accused to answer by means of examining prima facie evidence, and there is no provision for the magistrate hearing the extradition case, or indeed the Home Secretary, to have any discretion to refuse extradition if they believe or know that an injustice is being done. The safeguards against misuse are absolutely minimal: provided that the correct boxes have been filled in then a British citizen can be extradited to another EU member state with as much ceremony as posting a parcel.
If they can do the above are you saying they can't make me pay a fine?
The moment I got a letter telling me to appear in court in another country, I'd be on the phone with my lawyer to see if there was even any legal standing for that letter at all.
Jurisdiction, guys. Learn it. Love it. You're acting as if Aventurine can hunt you down and have you extradited from whatever country you're in to an Athens courtroom for breaking the NDA, and it's not nearly that simple.
That's all well and good, but you're still failing to grasp the concept of civil vs. criminal law.
An NDA is a civil contract, and an agreement between two people. Violating it is not going to get anywhere close to involving extradition or any criminal charges anywhere. You guys are blowing this all waaaaaay out of proportion.
Just imagine the international outcry if Greece tried to extradite someone from another country over a video game, and when that person didn't pirate the game, steal the source code, or otherwise commit a real criminal offense. Think about it rationally. Do you REALLY think anyone would go through the time and effort of it all over a video game NDA? Come on. Don't be stupid.
Sorry. I just don't see it happening. And the reactions from people over this are hysterical. I can't believe people are equating breaking an NDA for a video game with serious breaches of international law. I'm sitting here laughing at my desk.
Well, this is what happens when armchair lawyers start spewing forth BS about a topic that they really don't know anything about.
I would LOVE any of you to try and find an attorney willing to take a case about a 'NDA Breach' over a MMORPG to court.
I don't think I have ever read so much pseudo-legal jibba jabba in my life. There was maybe 1 or 2 people that had actual good points. Then there were a plethora of posts like this one...does anyone seriously think that you would get extradited to Greece from the US or even in the EU for breaking an NDA?
I'm giving most of you a lot of footing here by not saying that the NDA is garbage and they couldn't enforce it; lets assume that they can. How much would it cost to bring you there, and bring you to court?
Even if you lived in Greece, it would still cost them a lot of money to get you to show up. They'd have to waste time finding you, then more time building this "case", then even more time at trial with this airtight case of theirs. We can assume that they would not have an in-house attorney on this case, and I'll lowball the attorney's hourly billing -- lets say $200 an hour which is cheap for an experienced corporate attorney. It would be even more expensive for an attorney with international experience or even the proper credentials to try a case involving multiple countries.
Anyone honestly think that Aventurine has the funds or the wherewithal to spend months and thousands upon thousands of dollars to take this to trial? Even if they won, what would happen then? Considering there isn't much general knowledge about this game don't you think it would be hard to prove that the leak cost them any amount of game sales (MONEY)?
I conceded that it was illegal just to show you how unlikely this event is. Just to be clear I don't think breaking this NDA would ever result in legal action in any way.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
That's all well and good, but you're still failing to grasp the concept of civil vs. criminal law.
An NDA is a civil contract, and an agreement between two people. Violating it is not going to get anywhere close to involving extradition or any criminal charges anywhere. You guys are blowing this all waaaaaay out of proportion.
Just imagine the international outcry if Greece tried to extradite someone from another country over a video game, and when that person didn't pirate the game, steal the source code, or otherwise commit a real criminal offense. Think about it rationally. Do you REALLY think anyone would go through the time and effort of it all over a video game NDA? Come on. Don't be stupid.
In the end I find it interesting that people are arguing that breaking an agreement is ok because it's hard for anyone to do anything about it.
I wonder how much the same people would bitch and moan if someone broke an agreement on them that would be difficult to enforce.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I understand that it is possible to catch who broke NDA when there is 10-20 people working on project. But now i heard numbers of hundreds and thousands of testers. That means they need invite outside people from other countries (probably). So you just write your reviews and send to other people to post. No one will ever catch you, and as Aventurine isnt even spending funds on marketing i doubt they will do investigations on NDA break. Of course it is pretty easy to catch those who share screenshots, just look at logs (i think they should have them because after all it is beta) and see who inflicted same damage or something and thats all.
But still even with hundreds of people testing there was only few leaks. you could hope for more fake leaks then there is overall of them...
As I said previously if I was told to pay damages and I didn't it would not be a civil matter anymore, it would be criminal matter as I would be disobaying the court. Aventurine probably wouldn't bother, but if they did and I then refused to pay I can't see the Greek court not pursuing me as it would be an blatent insult to the judge and then it would be a criminal offence. If Aventurine then said no don't bother with it wouldn't matter because it would be out of their hands.
Also they can send international bailiffs to take my property, although they would probably use a British based company. I would have to pay the bailifs expenses as well.
People in Britain get screwed over speeding tickets in Europe, they wouldn't get away with this.
Britain isn't even signed up to all the EU laws, it's even more integrated in most of the EU.
Just to respond to a post I saw, court CAN take your money in your account and if you dont have any money in it, they can just take half of your weekly paycheck.
Let's say you rent your house and you dont pay. It is a violation of contrat and the owner can seize your salary. I know that well, my sister went there.
At least this is how it work here in canada.
Oh get off the high horse already. We get it, you don't think it is moral to break an agreement. Praise be the noble Sovrath.
Morality has little to do with legality however. They kind of sound the same, but are not very interdependent of one another.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
This is pointless. Believe what you want. There is not precedent of extradition over an NDA violation. You would think with the millions of people that play video games and the minimum of hundreds of thousands that beta test if someone could be extradited over this offense they would have.
Please cite one precedent where someone has had criminal charges from an NDA for a BETA TEST! There is none because it is not breaking criminal law. The point about not paying... That would only occur after an INITIAL trial for civil damages. If you do not fight the case then you are an idiot.
The point I and the other few people have been making is it would not hold up in a civil trial. Aventurine would have to prove damages (highly unlikely) and then the court would have to determine what the value of that damage equates to.
Just because the NDA says Aventurine does not have to prove damages does not make it legally correct.
Some of you are acting like any NDA is law which it is not. It is a contract between two parties. The plantif would have to prove that the contract was violated and that damages occured from that violation. If that is not PROVEN then there would be no civil case. If a contract is violated often there are clauses in the contract that allows for termination. The same is true of this one. Aventurine holds the right to terminate the contract.
To even imply that a civil case of this nature would come to extradition or some kind of fugitive status is absurd. Only IF the defended lost the CIVIL case and then refused would it become a CRIMINAL issue. Until then there would be nothing to impose a warrant for arrest.
I have also shown where Aventurines own beta practices invalidate the NDA as they have bugs reported in a way THAT VIOLATES THEIR OWN NDA. You cannot hold some one liable under contract when you own processes force them to violate said contract.
The link that was provided about siezed assets, did anyone bother to read it... We are talking nazi war crimes versus a game NDA... are you kidding me?!?!
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
What he said.
Here an example of a lawsuit against a 19 year old made by Apple for leaking on his website.
It was settled out of court.
www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/20.1.shtml
Once again your link has no relevence to what we are talking about. The kid in question had no NDA with Apple, He was not charged criminally, and there was no legal fault determined to set precedence.
So what exactly is your point with this?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Once again your link has no relevence to what we are talking about. The kid in question had no NDA with Apple, He was not charged criminally, and there was no legal fault determined to set precedence.
So what exactly is your point with this?
His lawyers must have advised him to settle otherwise he would not have done so. He had not even signed the NDA he was only reproducing the leaked info and they were obviously still not confident that they would win in court. The legal ramifications of losing in court and then refusing to comply should be obvious.
That's entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nice try, though.
Why is it not relevent? It is a clear example of a company persuing somebody over leaked information.
Or perhaps Apple offered to settle given the beating their image was taking over the suit? Look at your article again:
When he was sued, he was still a teenager, aged 19, attending Harvard, a fact that added to Apple's image of being a bully for pursuing the case.
It was bad PR for Apple to hound this kid over something he published on a website, and a full trial would have made them look worse. Ergo, they opted for a settlement.
The circumstances are different, for one. This kid posted about an upcoming Apple product on his website, which specialized in Apple rumors and info. You're trying to compare that to someone in a video game beta, when they're not the same.
Also, even your own source says that Apple going after this kid only looked like a bully becuase he was, in fact, just a kid when he started the site. It was bad PR an bad for their image to keep hounding the kid after almost three years, so they settled the case.
Or perhaps Apple offered to settle given the beating their image was taking over the suit? Look at your article again:
When he was sued, he was still a teenager, aged 19, attending Harvard, a fact that added to Apple's image of being a bully for pursuing the case.
It was bad PR for Apple to hound this kid over something he published on a website, and a full trial would have made them look worse. Ergo, they opted for a settlement.
Settling is not just dropping the lawsuit, they have obtained something in return for not going to court. If they were worried about their image they could have dropped it and got nothing in return.
People get sued over NDA's all the time the fact that it's a video game is neither here nor there.
They DID get something in return. The kid shut his website down. Also, the kid didn't have to reveal his sources for the story, which was likely a concession from Apple to settle the suit. Didn't you even read the story you posted?
He agreed to shut down, there was an agreement that the sources for the story wouldn't be revealed, and Apple probably agreed to drop the suit and possibly even to pay his legal costs since they've got a lot of money and he's not even out of college yet.
Why is it not relevent? It is a clear example of a company persuing somebody over leaked information.
1) There was no NDA.
2) The information leaked was about an electronic device. Possible that technical data was released that could be used to bypass a patent.
3) The site was a commercial business making revenue from this information not a tester.
4) The suit was settled out of court, but it does not say who recieved damages.
There is nothing that relates your linked case with one of a beta NDA. It is also a civil suit which only supports what we have been saying and not your arguments. The person who actually leaked the information was never determined and suffered no consequences for leaking the information.
However you want to slice that article it does nothing to support you arguments in this thread. The fact that you used this instead of a more relevent case only goes to show how unlikely it is that anyone would seek civil action over a beta NDA.
You have also no responded to my point that Aventurine has by their own action invalidated the NDA. Funny how that has been glazed over repeatedly.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.