Originally posted by atziluth Still waiting for you to provide the link to show this NDA was "enforced". I already stated I do not know Greek law. Are you naive enough to think GREEK laws take precedent over another countries laws? Also please show me where Greece a pretty independent nation has laws that remove civil liberties from their citizens without due process. I find that very hard to believe. Pointing out my lack of knowledge on a very specific area does nothing to disprove your own ignorance on the subject. I would counter that my knowledge of the legal system I am subject to is far superior to your own.
Well if their NDA states that it only applies in Greece then I suppose they couldn't take it to a US court.
However it would still leave you in the position that your freedom of movement would be greatly curtailed as if they sucessfully sued you you couldn't be sure that you could safely travel to any part of the EU without being arrested. If you were blantantly disobaying the court they might be vindictive enough to pursue it. Personally if I was in the US I wouldn't want to risk it. Jobs/visa applications ect always ask if you have a criminal record in your own county or overseas, which you may well end up with if the court presses the matter, so you would be making life difficult for yourself.
You are assuming that the defendant would not put up a legal fight. My point is that there are several things that invalidate the NDA. The length of the contract does not match the length before full disclosure in the game. The fact that Aventurine is claiming the do not bear any responsibility in proving damages happened. Finally that without even any proof the defendent has caused unrecoverable monetary damages.
I would find it hard to believe there is any court in the EU that would find the defendant guilty without proof and award an unlimited amount of damages based on zero evidence. I would go further and say trying to prove fault of the defendant would be exceptionally difficult as their beta practices force the defendant to violate the agreement.
In one of the leaks it was shown that part of reporting a bug is by capturing the screen and sending it to Aventurine staff. Any capture of a screen of the game is a direct violation of the NDA. Through the practices of the company it invalidates their own NDA. This document would not hold up in any reasonable court and they know it (hence the section about each component being independent in a court of law incase one section is found to be unlawful).
Seriously... people need to read these things and think before telling boogeyman stories. There are more then a few logical loopholes that could get a defendent out of trouble just based on the contract wording alone. That is why I am wondering if this is an actual document from Aventurine. If it is then their legal department is completely incompetent.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by Lidane Paying it off monthly? Exactly how much do you think someone would be fined for breaking an NDA?
Thats what they do in England, if you get fined and you can't pay it you can pay it off in installments, probably the same in Greece.
I know how installment payments work. They do the same thing in the States with large enough criminal fines and/or civil judgements if someone cannot pay the full amount upfront.
What I'm asking is exactly how much of a judgement do you think they'd slap on someone over this? I can't see it being that large at all, and certainly not large enough for a person to be placed on an arrest database.
Also, bear in mind that any NDA violation would mean that the lawyers for Aventurine would first have to find the violator and confirm their identity, then attempt to sue them over the violation. Should that person be from a country outside of Greece, the issue of jurisdiction would have to be settled first. You can't just convene a trial in Greece when the respondent is physically in and a citizen of another country. There are matters of jurisdiction, relevant case law, relevant national and international laws in the home country of the NDA violator, and all that which must be taken into account. Getting all that squared first would take time and money, and would also involve any judges looking at the matter and deciding if it's worth hearing at all.
Aventurine would have to decide if the time and expense of going after an NDA violator in another country would be worth whatever measly sum they'd get for their efforts. It's not nearly as simple as saying that someone violated the NDA and is therefore going to get sued back to the Stone Age over it., especially if that person is outside of Greece.
Is there a link to this NDA somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it, but didn't see it linked in this thread. Thanks!
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Anyone here who thinks that a video game NDA has any meaning in the real world, is insane, and needs to unplug from the matrix for a few weeks and get a life. Maybe get laid, have something to eat, watch some football (American or European).
It's harch I grant you that but it's not a joke if they drag you to to court.
They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.
Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..
So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.
Who cares?
They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.
Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.
They just take the money after court said their thing right out of your account and theres nothing you can do about it. So if youre in that situation i would suggest you dont have money in your bank. Kinda hard though cause your paycheck goes through the banksystem.
Anyone here who thinks that a video game NDA has any meaning in the real world, is insane, and needs to unplug from the matrix for a few weeks and get a life. Maybe get laid, have something to eat, watch some football (American or European).
But why shouldn't it?
The player is essentially agreeing that he will have access to the game, test it, give feedback but will not disclose any information. He/she essentially makes this promise.
So if the NDA means nothing then I would go so far as to say that the word of the players who break their promise are garbage.
Quite frankly I'm for any company bypassing players to have any access to the game until they deem it launch ready.
If a player can't keep their word it shows off his/her quality quite well.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's harch I grant you that but it's not a joke if they drag you to to court.
They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.
Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..
So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.
Who cares?
They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.
Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.
They just take the money after court said their thing right out of your account and theres nothing you can do about it. So if youre in that situation i would suggest you dont have money in your bank. Kinda hard though cause your paycheck goes through the banksystem.
Have a nice day
GARNISHING OF WAGES??? Are you crazy? Do you think the violation of an NDA would EVER SEE A COURTROOM? Has that EVER happened? If anyone on this website can send me a citation of someone being brought to court for the violation of an NDA I will apologize for calling you a psychopath.
Anyone here who thinks that a video game NDA has any meaning in the real world, is insane, and needs to unplug from the matrix for a few weeks and get a life. Maybe get laid, have something to eat, watch some football (American or European).
Of course it has meaning people are taken to court over NDA's all the time, the fact thats it a video game is unimportant. This isn't a check the box NDA it's a signed document. I'm not sure if I believe it but apparently the first guy who leaked is already having some kind legal retribution brought against him.
Is there a link to this NDA somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it, but didn't see it linked in this thread. Thanks!
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
Anyone here who thinks that a video game NDA has any meaning in the real world, is insane, and needs to unplug from the matrix for a few weeks and get a life. Maybe get laid, have something to eat, watch some football (American or European).
Of course it has meaning people are taken to court over NDA's all the time, the fact thats it a video game is unimportant. This isn't a check the box NDA it's a signed document. I'm not sure if I believe it but apparently the first guy who leaked is already having some kind legal retribution brought against him.
Can you cite this? Where is this information that you are privy to?
Is there a link to this NDA somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it, but didn't see it linked in this thread. Thanks!
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
He's been asked to link to the sources of his statements numerous times and he just doesn't. If this bloke told me water was wet, I think I'd probably have to touch it before I'd believe him. Everything concerning this game seems to be obfuscated to the point that it just doesn't make any sense at all. I would not be surprised to see it slip back in to it's vapourware status on January 23rd. What a mess!
Is there a link to this NDA somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it, but didn't see it linked in this thread. Thanks!
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
My thoughts exactly. Some people think that any paper you sign however unreasonable is legally binding. Those are the same people who naively believe that governments follow the letter of the law and can do no wrong.
As NDAs go, it is not that out of the ordinary, but that does not mean it has any reasonable authority. Most NDAs are unreasonable which is why they have such a unconvincing track record in the court system.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I doubt that, it's probably a standard Greek NDA thats already been successfully tested in Greek court.
That's great. However, it wouldn't stand up in a court outside of Greece, which is the point. It's laughable on its face.
It might be laughable to you but it wouldn't be laughable to anyone in the EU and being that is where the game is launching this is probably where the majority of the testers are.
Yup. Its a legal contract you sign so if you break it you just have to face the consequences.
That's just it-- for anyone outside of Greece, it's not legal at all, because people who are not citizens of Greece are not beholden to Greek law or Greek jurisdiction.
Find me any lawyer in England, or the States, or Germany, or anywhere outside of Greece who wouldn't fight that NDA or the jurisdiction clauses, and I'll show you a lawyer that should have their license to practice revoked. That NDA is a joke and wouldn't hold up in court anywhere outside of Athens.
I doubt that, it's probably a standard Greek NDA thats already been successfully tested in Greek court.
That's great. However, it wouldn't stand up in a court outside of Greece, which is the point. It's laughable on its face.
It might be laughable to you but it wouldn't be laughable to anyone in the EU and being that is where the game is launching this is probably where the majority of the testers are.
Yup, as a citizen of a EU country just as Greece is you wouldnt find this a laughing matter.
It might be laughable to you but it wouldn't be laughable to anyone in the EU and being that is where the game is launching this is probably where the majority of the testers are.
Yeah, right. As if a citizen of any other country in the EU wouldn't fight that jurisdiction clause tooth and nail.
If that's the real NDA, it's a joke, even in the EU. It wouldn't be held up in court because anyone outside of Greece would fight it, and would fight the notion that they, as a citizen of whatever other country are somehow beholden to Greek law and must therefore pay money to a game company.
I doubt that, it's probably a standard Greek NDA thats already been successfully tested in Greek court.
Yup. Its a legal contract you sign so if you break it you just have to face the consequences.
It will not be cheap id tell you.
And the money will be taken out of your account no matter you like it or not.
Your assumptions could not be further from the truth.
1) While a contract between two parties, it does not automatically make it legally binding. If the contract is found in violation of current laws, it is voided. Since this particular contract says Aventurine does not have to provide any proof of breach... I would say it is not legally binding.
2) Cheap is a relative term. Aventurine regardless of what it states in the contract would have to prove damages of some kind and then prove the defendant caused them. If they fail it opens the door for a counter suit (not neccessarily in Greece) and Aventurine could be held accountable for legal fees.
3) Money cannot be removed from an account outside a courts jurisdiction without legal consent by the nation the banking institution and account are legally subject to. This would give adaquate time for the funds to be removed from those institutions unless a freeze was put in place. This would be highly unusual since the damages would likely be minimal.
You are looking at this like it is some huge international crime. This is a standard contract dispute and not even a blip on the radar for international law. The chances any significant actions would be taken is remote to say the least. Aventurine would be better served just banning the offender from their game until release. After that point it would be difficult and unprofitable to ban them permanently. Especially for an indy company without the legal or funding muscle needed to really put the screws to someone.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Yup, as a citizen of a EU country just as Greece is you wouldnt find this a laughing matter.
Sure I would.
If I was French, or German, or whatever, I'd scoff at the idea that I owe money to a Greek game company over a screenshot, or a blog post about Darkfall or whatever. As a citizen of another country, I'm not automatically beholden to the laws in Greece. Jurisdiction would have to be proven first, and that would cost time and money that Aventurine doesn't have.
If someone outside of Greece is stupid enough to roll over and accept that agreement on its face should Aventurine come after them, they might as well have the word IDIOT tattooed on their forehead.
Comments
Well if their NDA states that it only applies in Greece then I suppose they couldn't take it to a US court.
However it would still leave you in the position that your freedom of movement would be greatly curtailed as if they sucessfully sued you you couldn't be sure that you could safely travel to any part of the EU without being arrested. If you were blantantly disobaying the court they might be vindictive enough to pursue it. Personally if I was in the US I wouldn't want to risk it. Jobs/visa applications ect always ask if you have a criminal record in your own county or overseas, which you may well end up with if the court presses the matter, so you would be making life difficult for yourself.
You are assuming that the defendant would not put up a legal fight. My point is that there are several things that invalidate the NDA. The length of the contract does not match the length before full disclosure in the game. The fact that Aventurine is claiming the do not bear any responsibility in proving damages happened. Finally that without even any proof the defendent has caused unrecoverable monetary damages.
I would find it hard to believe there is any court in the EU that would find the defendant guilty without proof and award an unlimited amount of damages based on zero evidence. I would go further and say trying to prove fault of the defendant would be exceptionally difficult as their beta practices force the defendant to violate the agreement.
In one of the leaks it was shown that part of reporting a bug is by capturing the screen and sending it to Aventurine staff. Any capture of a screen of the game is a direct violation of the NDA. Through the practices of the company it invalidates their own NDA. This document would not hold up in any reasonable court and they know it (hence the section about each component being independent in a court of law incase one section is found to be unlawful).
Seriously... people need to read these things and think before telling boogeyman stories. There are more then a few logical loopholes that could get a defendent out of trouble just based on the contract wording alone. That is why I am wondering if this is an actual document from Aventurine. If it is then their legal department is completely incompetent.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Thats what they do in England, if you get fined and you can't pay it you can pay it off in installments, probably the same in Greece.
I know how installment payments work. They do the same thing in the States with large enough criminal fines and/or civil judgements if someone cannot pay the full amount upfront.
What I'm asking is exactly how much of a judgement do you think they'd slap on someone over this? I can't see it being that large at all, and certainly not large enough for a person to be placed on an arrest database.
Also, bear in mind that any NDA violation would mean that the lawyers for Aventurine would first have to find the violator and confirm their identity, then attempt to sue them over the violation. Should that person be from a country outside of Greece, the issue of jurisdiction would have to be settled first. You can't just convene a trial in Greece when the respondent is physically in and a citizen of another country. There are matters of jurisdiction, relevant case law, relevant national and international laws in the home country of the NDA violator, and all that which must be taken into account. Getting all that squared first would take time and money, and would also involve any judges looking at the matter and deciding if it's worth hearing at all.
Aventurine would have to decide if the time and expense of going after an NDA violator in another country would be worth whatever measly sum they'd get for their efforts. It's not nearly as simple as saying that someone violated the NDA and is therefore going to get sued back to the Stone Age over it., especially if that person is outside of Greece.
Is there a link to this NDA somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it, but didn't see it linked in this thread.
Thanks!
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Anyone here who thinks that a video game NDA has any meaning in the real world, is insane, and needs to unplug from the matrix for a few weeks and get a life. Maybe get laid, have something to eat, watch some football (American or European).
A/V Nerd-
Onkyo TX-SR706b receiver
(2)Klipsch RF-35
(1)Klipsch RC-35
(2)Klipsch RS-42
(2)Polk R15
(1)Premier Acoustic PA-10 sub
They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.
Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..
So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.
Who cares?
They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.
Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.
They just take the money after court said their thing right out of your account and theres nothing you can do about it. So if youre in that situation i would suggest you dont have money in your bank. Kinda hard though cause your paycheck goes through the banksystem.
Have a nice day
But why shouldn't it?
The player is essentially agreeing that he will have access to the game, test it, give feedback but will not disclose any information. He/she essentially makes this promise.
So if the NDA means nothing then I would go so far as to say that the word of the players who break their promise are garbage.
Quite frankly I'm for any company bypassing players to have any access to the game until they deem it launch ready.
If a player can't keep their word it shows off his/her quality quite well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.
Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..
So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.
Who cares?
They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.
Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.
They just take the money after court said their thing right out of your account and theres nothing you can do about it. So if youre in that situation i would suggest you dont have money in your bank. Kinda hard though cause your paycheck goes through the banksystem.
Have a nice day
GARNISHING OF WAGES??? Are you crazy? Do you think the violation of an NDA would EVER SEE A COURTROOM? Has that EVER happened? If anyone on this website can send me a citation of someone being brought to court for the violation of an NDA I will apologize for calling you a psychopath.
A/V Nerd-
Onkyo TX-SR706b receiver
(2)Klipsch RF-35
(1)Klipsch RC-35
(2)Klipsch RS-42
(2)Polk R15
(1)Premier Acoustic PA-10 sub
Of course it has meaning people are taken to court over NDA's all the time, the fact thats it a video game is unimportant. This isn't a check the box NDA it's a signed document. I'm not sure if I believe it but apparently the first guy who leaked is already having some kind legal retribution brought against him.
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
Of course it has meaning people are taken to court over NDA's all the time, the fact thats it a video game is unimportant. This isn't a check the box NDA it's a signed document. I'm not sure if I believe it but apparently the first guy who leaked is already having some kind legal retribution brought against him.
Can you cite this? Where is this information that you are privy to?
A/V Nerd-
Onkyo TX-SR706b receiver
(2)Klipsch RF-35
(1)Klipsch RC-35
(2)Klipsch RS-42
(2)Polk R15
(1)Premier Acoustic PA-10 sub
I doubt that, it's probably a standard Greek NDA thats already been successfully tested in Greek court.
Take it from a lawyer: NDA is bullshit and never superceeds laws of countries a person lives in. it's all a big joke.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
That's all fine and good but if the laws of the country support that NDA then it is enforceable no?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
He's been asked to link to the sources of his statements numerous times and he just doesn't. If this bloke told me water was wet, I think I'd probably have to touch it before I'd believe him. Everything concerning this game seems to be obfuscated to the point that it just doesn't make any sense at all. I would not be surprised to see it slip back in to it's vapourware status on January 23rd. What a mess!
Yup. Its a legal contract you sign so if you break it you just have to face the consequences.
It will not be cheap id tell you.
And the money will be taken out of your account no matter you like it or not.
I don't know if linking it directly is a violation of this sites rules so probably can't. It is very easy to find however. Try doing a google search on darkfall NDA... You should eventually find it.
Thanks. I found a copy of it.
First impressions--
1. Keeping someone under the terms of the NDA for five years after the beta test ends is laughable and would get thrown out of court as unreasonable and excessive. Once a beta test ends and the game goes live, any agreements relevant to the beta are null and void. This is an NDA for a video game beta, not an employment contract where the employee has access to trade secrets.
2. The jurisdiction waiver would be challenged by any decent lawyer outside of Greece that's worth their paycheck. There's no way that anyone outside of Greece wouldn't fight that provision at all.
3. Section 8.1 is a joke that no judge would take seriously, at least here in the States. They'd laugh at Aventurine's lawyers and tell them to get the hell out of their courtroom with that nonsense.
4. If this is the real NDA, it's a joke. There's no way this would stand up in court, at least here in the States. Even a halfway decent lawyer that specialized in international contract law could shred that into a million pieces.
My thoughts exactly. Some people think that any paper you sign however unreasonable is legally binding. Those are the same people who naively believe that governments follow the letter of the law and can do no wrong.
As NDAs go, it is not that out of the ordinary, but that does not mean it has any reasonable authority. Most NDAs are unreasonable which is why they have such a unconvincing track record in the court system.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
That's great. However, it wouldn't stand up in a court outside of Greece, which is the point. It's laughable on its face.
It will stand just fine in court. At least in a Greece court, have no doubts.
That's great. However, it wouldn't stand up in a court outside of Greece, which is the point. It's laughable on its face.
It might be laughable to you but it wouldn't be laughable to anyone in the EU and being that is where the game is launching this is probably where the majority of the testers are.
That's just it-- for anyone outside of Greece, it's not legal at all, because people who are not citizens of Greece are not beholden to Greek law or Greek jurisdiction.
Find me any lawyer in England, or the States, or Germany, or anywhere outside of Greece who wouldn't fight that NDA or the jurisdiction clauses, and I'll show you a lawyer that should have their license to practice revoked. That NDA is a joke and wouldn't hold up in court anywhere outside of Athens.
That's great. However, it wouldn't stand up in a court outside of Greece, which is the point. It's laughable on its face.
It might be laughable to you but it wouldn't be laughable to anyone in the EU and being that is where the game is launching this is probably where the majority of the testers are.
Yup, as a citizen of a EU country just as Greece is you wouldnt find this a laughing matter.
Yeah, right. As if a citizen of any other country in the EU wouldn't fight that jurisdiction clause tooth and nail.
If that's the real NDA, it's a joke, even in the EU. It wouldn't be held up in court because anyone outside of Greece would fight it, and would fight the notion that they, as a citizen of whatever other country are somehow beholden to Greek law and must therefore pay money to a game company.
Yup. Its a legal contract you sign so if you break it you just have to face the consequences.
It will not be cheap id tell you.
And the money will be taken out of your account no matter you like it or not.
Your assumptions could not be further from the truth.
1) While a contract between two parties, it does not automatically make it legally binding. If the contract is found in violation of current laws, it is voided. Since this particular contract says Aventurine does not have to provide any proof of breach... I would say it is not legally binding.
2) Cheap is a relative term. Aventurine regardless of what it states in the contract would have to prove damages of some kind and then prove the defendant caused them. If they fail it opens the door for a counter suit (not neccessarily in Greece) and Aventurine could be held accountable for legal fees.
3) Money cannot be removed from an account outside a courts jurisdiction without legal consent by the nation the banking institution and account are legally subject to. This would give adaquate time for the funds to be removed from those institutions unless a freeze was put in place. This would be highly unusual since the damages would likely be minimal.
You are looking at this like it is some huge international crime. This is a standard contract dispute and not even a blip on the radar for international law. The chances any significant actions would be taken is remote to say the least. Aventurine would be better served just banning the offender from their game until release. After that point it would be difficult and unprofitable to ban them permanently. Especially for an indy company without the legal or funding muscle needed to really put the screws to someone.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Sure I would.
If I was French, or German, or whatever, I'd scoff at the idea that I owe money to a Greek game company over a screenshot, or a blog post about Darkfall or whatever. As a citizen of another country, I'm not automatically beholden to the laws in Greece. Jurisdiction would have to be proven first, and that would cost time and money that Aventurine doesn't have.
If someone outside of Greece is stupid enough to roll over and accept that agreement on its face should Aventurine come after them, they might as well have the word IDIOT tattooed on their forehead.