Originally posted by Salvatoris: The thing is, I am not grinding anything. Why would I in tier 4.
Probably because since they've switched to lockouts on things, this is the growing attitude now in Warhammer:
Warhammer Poster: Ok, so you got these nice 2 fortresses with nice 43+ champions/heroes defending it. A giant lord 43+ defending it and wiping 40's with not the required gear you can get at 38+ wiping everything.
Ok so, this is endgame, fine, good.
Now you finally capture these 2 fortresses, you enter the next stage, where you never would have come without sieging these fortresses, and you enter a PQ. This PQ has 34+ mobs in it, the bags except the golden bags (which are only 2 for 48 people!) contain 30-32 gear. There is absolutely no reasonable explanation for this. There are scenario's, do you want 30+ to participate in capturing the enemy city THEN LET THEM DO IT IN SCENARIO'S.There is enough content already for 30+, and almost none for 40. There are no raid instances for 40's. If you want us to work so badly to get to the "endgame content" then make it f'ing ENDGAME, and not "available for everyone". And this is not about elitism, because you alreayd have a PQ system!!!! This is about making it worth your while AFTER you hit 40.
Next poster: I have a 37 Sorcerer as my highest toon and let me be the first to agree. City PQs are the ultimate end-game reward and IMO should be reserved for players who have properly reached end-game. It makes no sense that a level 32 grabs Invader gear during a City take while the people actually doing the work get shafted.
Note, this means that I would not be eligible myself for a City take. I'm fine with that. There's lots of other RVR for me to do until I reach 40.
Another poster: I fianlly said "ENOUGH ALREADY" and let my account cancel after getting to the damn city gate just be stuck in a queue and now being backed up against the portal mowed down my Destro running back to the fort. Enough! cya
Next poster: Disagree, I enjoy getting invader gear for sitting afk the entire city pq while 40s kill everything on my lvl 32. Then clicking on a chest after its done and getting my uber gear OoOoOo . I enjoy this the same reason I enjoy playing OP of the month classes, you abuse it enough and it gets changed (hopefully the way you want).
Do these people sound like they have no idea what they are talking about and are just "trolling" around?
This is why. If you don't get aboard the gear treadmill like everyone else and get the proper gear to fight things in this oRvR stage, you won't be able to kill anything or anyone at Level40 with crap gear. Gear is not some "happy side effect" to doing oRvR. It's HOW you do oRvR in T4. You'll keep people who are geared and can actually help out without it, and you'll get lots of hate mail your way telling you to get out of the area "noob".
You said earlier you didn't understand what all the hubbub was about T4. Now you know.
I don't understand why people who: 1. Don't belong to decent organized guild 2. Who never got past rank 30 Complain. Get to rank 40 and you can start playing the actual game. Amazing game, the best mmo currently on market, fine there are some stuff that need evolving but they're working on it, I started at launch and totally hooked on the game; played 40/rr48Sorcerer and then my guild rerolled to order and now 40/rr43 BW and still enjoying and having fun. Give it a chance and play for fun.
So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
Ok I really dont get the complaint. What specifically is boring in the game? It allows you to PvP instead of grinding mob to level and the end game is to raid the opposing sides keep and it is actually quicker to level through PvP Scenarios. That in itself is revolutionary. An endgame that I agree there are many shortcomings in but Im having a blast leveling my character through scenarios. And PQ? All you do that for is to get some gear so you can be more effective in PvP. It could be made more interesting by being more dynamic but quests in MMORPGs are unfourtanetely very static and has no impact on the world. Also O-RvR and endgame needs alot of work, that I agree with, but it being boring? I rather play a scenario than grind moronic AI mobs in LOTR, anytime.
I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
I have about 8 different chracters and just ORVR or do scenarios. Its awesome and my highest ranked toon is only 28 !. I don't even care, I just have fun leveling toons at any tier. Plus there is no grind !!! Its so casual and enjoyable to play, I can't even consider going back to LOTRO or WOW clone.
Quests, kill 100 of this , deliver this bread, fix 7 pick axes for dwarves ?? LOL, you can have it. The days of static MMO"s are dead to me. I'm sick of AI and a boring raid boss I can kill by looking up the strat somewhere or figure it out in a week. Look at endgame in LOTRO now, all my old kinmates are doing is killing the Watcher over and over for get everyone equipped in the hopes Turbine releases a new 24 man raid someday. LOL, what a joike.
In PVP, you have no idea how many destro are out there, whether there is someone following u, hiding behind a bush or pelting u from above in a keep. So much strategy involved. Try and take a keep, no good, move to a BO, bring them out and then fight on the open field. There is a zerg, 2 v 2, 2 v 1, all kinds of matchups. Its not one large mass fighting in sync,, I can assure u of that.
Love the game ! If you don't like it, then I guess this isnt your type of game. Go back to LOTRO or WOW and kill those static mobs, over and over and over. Get to max level as soon as u can !!! Hurry up !!! lol.
I can play a rank 4 or 28 toon and have just as much fun in this game. Honestly, I don't even have to get to tier 4 or any endgame content. The PVP is continous content every night Never the same fight twice.
Don't listen to any of the negative posts here, just try the game for yourself. If you don't like the style, then move on. Simple as that.
1.1.1 introduces "Subliminal Zone Control", sort of, where if you actually hold all of the BOs and Keeps then you can lock the zone, not determined only by spamming Scenarios or doing PQs anymore to tip that scale. Though until they really make Zone Control and actual player kills more valuable, I'm not sure how much that'll help. It's in addition to the existing Control system, not a replacement of it though.
There's only been a few Fort crashes on Dark Crag I believe, we just stormed two on Azazel and went like butter...new arguments please.
Boring endgame? Well, that's a matter of opinion. If you don't play sports I don't imagine you can understand how nice it is to "win" after fighting for so long, so, if you only play for the uber gearz, that's fine. You're going to get bored.
Thats just it, this is not supposed to be "sports", it is supposed to be a WAR (as they claim) but the endgame is rather about winning the game and then reset to zero. Pointless and stupid.
The thing is, I am not grinding anything. Why would I in tier 4. RvR is fun, even at the bottom of tier four. The gear just comes along as a happy side effect to doing RvR. All my toons are perpetually capped on renown, and the ones below tier 4 are capped on area influence. It doesn't make me want to do RvR any less. I'm really not in a hurry to level, and I am not playing the game to attain the carrot at the end of the stick... I'm playing because it's fun. Sure, I hope they can fix the stability issues in fortress raids, and I am not crazy about their current approach to it... but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game right now. As long as people are doing RvR in tier 4, I'll be happy. If fortress sieges crash, I'll stay away from them until it's fixed. As long as I enjoy the other 39 levels, I should be able to keep myself entertained. RvR for RvRs sake is enough for me. It's like someone posted in this thread comparing WAR to an FPS. I enjoy being able to log in and immediately get in to the action. I run around with a group killing and being killed by Destro for a few hours and if I pick up a rank or some good gear, even better. If I don't, then it's fine because I still had fun, and that is why I play video games in the first place. I'm not trying to discount the issues you guys have with "end game". I'm just saying problems at 1/40th of the levels aren't going to ruin the game for me. I'd like to see compelling reasons to participate in RvR added just as much as the next guy. But that's because I enjoy it so much, I wish more people were involved. As far as turning off XP. I think there is a lot less ability to twink in this game than in others. It's not like it's AO or DAoC. Everyone at the top of each tier in RvR has roughly the same gear, and access to the same buffs. I do think each tier would be full of people at the max level, and that would be frustrating for the lower level guys... but I always see the first 4 or 5 levels of a tier as the game telling me to go do some PvE for a bit.
Well said, my thoughts exactly. I play the game the same way u do.
Ok I really dont get the complaint. What specifically is boring in the game? It allows you to PvP instead of grinding mob to level and the end game is to raid the opposing sides keep and it is actually quicker to level through PvP Scenarios. That in itself is revolutionary. An endgame that I agree there are many shortcomings in but Im having a blast leveling my character through scenarios. And PQ? All you do that for is to get some gear so you can be more effective in PvP. It could be made more interesting by being more dynamic but quests in MMORPGs are unfourtanetely very static and has no impact on the world. Also O-RvR and endgame needs alot of work, that I agree with, but it being boring? I rather play a scenario than grind moronic AI mobs in LOTR, anytime.
I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
Actually this is a point we disagree on. We agree that the game is fun but I think the end game should be about the war. And war is about controlling resources and defeating your enemy, sometimes final. But since this is an MMORPG then defeat cannot be final. However when you control a zone it should be much more rewarding for the winner and much more penalizing for the loser. If it was then the winner would care to defend it and the loser would fight, hard, to regain it.
Only then will you get a sense of a war going on because controlling zones is VITAL. Right now zones are flipped back and forth, sometimes several times in an hour. Im sorry but that is not a war, thats a volleyball game, and hence why most people find this games end game boring and pointless.
In WAR there is no victory, only flipping zones back and forth, with the possible reward to raid the opponents city. Then it will reset, not because the other side shaves up and take it back but rather because there is little point in holding it and the mechanics as such makes it very dificult to do so. Shouldnt be that way.
If you raid the opponents city then it should first be VERY rewarding, both to take over and to keep control, and taking it back should be because the losing sides PvP effort. Not because game mechanics making it virtually impossible to hold it for a longer while. Again, that is a sports game and not a war...
EDIT: My guess as to why Mythic doesnt do in that way is because that would scare away the casual type of MMORPG players (read WoW type players). However what they dont realise is that WoW type people play.... WoW. So this game trying to cater to WoW players by making everything easy and casual is a failed strategy which will in the end just alienate people who want to play an MMORPG where an actual war is raging and not a theme park.
Ok I really dont get the complaint. What specifically is boring in the game? It allows you to PvP instead of grinding mob to level and the end game is to raid the opposing sides keep and it is actually quicker to level through PvP Scenarios. That in itself is revolutionary. An endgame that I agree there are many shortcomings in but Im having a blast leveling my character through scenarios. And PQ? All you do that for is to get some gear so you can be more effective in PvP. It could be made more interesting by being more dynamic but quests in MMORPGs are unfourtanetely very static and has no impact on the world. Also O-RvR and endgame needs alot of work, that I agree with, but it being boring? I rather play a scenario than grind moronic AI mobs in LOTR, anytime.
I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
Actually this is a point we disagree on. We agree that the game is fun but I think the end game should be about the war. And war is about controlling resources and defeating your enemy, sometimes final. But since this is an MMORPG then defeat cannot be final. However when you control a zone it should be much more rewarding for the winner and much more penalizing for the loser. If it was then the winner would care to defend it and the loser would fight, hard, to regain it.
Only then will you get a sense of a war going on because controlling zones is VITAL. Right now zones are flipped back and forth, sometimes several times in an hour. Im sorry but that is not a war, thats a volleyball game, and hence why most people find this games end game boring and pointless.
In WAR there is no victory, only flipping zones back and forth, with the possible reward to raid the opponents city. Then it will reset, not because the other side shaves up and take it back but rather because there is little point in holding it and the mechanics as such makes it very dificult to do so. Shouldnt be that way.
If you raid the opponents city then it should first be VERY rewarding, both to take over and to keep control, and taking it back should be because the losing sides PvP effort. Not because game mechanics making it virtually impossible to hold it for a longer while. Again, that is a sports game and not a war...
I just dont think u grasp how difficult it is to make a PVP game vs PVE. Sure the endgame needs help, every MMO i've ever played needed better endgame. However, making great endgame is difficult enough, now your trying to do it in a PVP sense. Even harder. Just need to give the developers time to figure that out. If they don't, oh well. I'm still gonna play.
If I win a 1 v1 or we take a keep with destro defending., thats reward enough for me. Guess thats where we differ.
I just dont think u grasp how difficult it is to make a PVP game vs PVE. Sure the endgame needs help, every MMO i've ever played needed better endgame. However, making great endgame is difficult enough, now your trying to do it in a PVP sense. Even harder. Just need to give the developers time to figure that out. If they don't, oh well. I'm still gonna play. If I win a 1 v1 or we take a keep with destro defending., thats reward enough for me. Guess thats where we differ.
Yes it will be tough, never said it would be easy, however Mythic needs to realise that people have left this game in droves and need to analyze why. I think it is because people expected a war but got a volleyball game, this is indicated by alot of people who say that it was initially fun but got repetetive and end game was no fun. They say this because, I think, they expected for the war to unfold but it never did so they got dissapointed and left.
Others might point to standard reasons such as bugs, stability etc.
However I dont think Mythic has gone all wrong. They have made a PvP based MMORPG in a industry which is flooded with PvE centered games but they didnt push the envelope. If they do then I think this game could be revolutionary and set a new standard for future PvP based MMORPGs.
I don't understand why people who: 1. Don't belong to decent organized guild 2. Who never got past rank 30 Complain. Get to rank 40 and you can start playing the actual game. Amazing game, the best mmo currently on market, fine there are some stuff that need evolving but they're working on it, I started at launch and totally hooked on the game; played 40/rr48Sorcerer and then my guild rerolled to order and now 40/rr43 BW and still enjoying and having fun. Give it a chance and play for fun.
So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
If you read this whole thread, you will see that people are complaining about the current RvR endgame, but they are also saying the first 30 levels were fun. So NO, the first few months aren't a tutorial. The game doesn't start at 40. It starts at level 1, and the ride to top level is, so far, the most fun I have had in any MMO. You might want to get to around level 5 before you head in to RvR, but that only takes about an hour. When you get there you'll see that plenty of people are doing RvR even in tier one. This game IS fun from the the get go.
You also don't need to be in a guild to play any part of the game. You can walk in to an area and join an open group, or start one of your own and watch it fill up as you play. If you have questions, you can ask them in region chat, or ask the people you group with. If you are the kind of guy who likes to solo... well, that is a viable option, but it isn't the way these games are designed to be played. You can't really complain that you need other people's help to play through some of the the content in a massive multiplayer game.
I don't understand why people who: 1. Don't belong to decent organized guild 2. Who never got past rank 30 Complain. Get to rank 40 and you can start playing the actual game. Amazing game, the best mmo currently on market, fine there are some stuff that need evolving but they're working on it, I started at launch and totally hooked on the game; played 40/rr48Sorcerer and then my guild rerolled to order and now 40/rr43 BW and still enjoying and having fun. Give it a chance and play for fun.
So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
If you read this whole thread, you will see that people are complaining about the current RvR endgame, but they are also saying the first 30 levels were fun. So NO, the first few months aren't a tutorial. The game doesn't start at 40. It starts at level 1, and the ride to top level is, so far, the most fun I have had in any MMO. You might want to get to around level 5 before you head in to RvR, but that only takes about an hour. When you get there you'll see that plenty of people are doing RvR even in tier one. This game IS fun from the the get go.
You also don't need to be in a guild to play any part of the game. You can walk in to an area and join an open group, or start one of your own and watch it fill up as you play. If you have questions, you can ask them in region chat, or ask the people you group with. If you are the kind of guy who likes to solo... well, that is a viable option, but it isn't the way these games are designed to be played. You can't really complain that you need other people's help to play through some of the the content in a massive multiplayer game.
I suggest you do not do O-RvR at lower levels. Most of the times are spent running around looking for the enemy and once you find it its all about the numbers.
Rather join scenarios if you want fun and balanced PvP. It is intense and has the best xp/time in the game. Also there is no PvE in scenario, what so ever.
endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action. I have about 8 different chracters and just ORVR or do scenarios. Its awesome and my highest ranked toon is only 28 !. ... Don't listen to any of the negative posts here, just try the game for yourself. If you don't like the style, then move on. Simple as that.
Well, the game is not bad at all in the first three tiers.
Tier 4 it starts to go downhill, and level 40 it gets dull pretty fast.
Plus, once you have done one keep you've done them all, which seems a shame.
What exactly did Mythic spend so much time developing?
You know, this is a good question.
I can only imagine the lion's share of their time went into the PVE... which is a shame given how empty the PVE zones are in tier 4.
I think it's a shame the way a lot people view MMOs in general. Mythic spent their time on content for the 39 levels a lot of people seem not to care about. No MMO should be considered to start at max level. The developers pour most of their effort in to making this part of the game, and then a lot of the players try to rush through it as quickly as possible.
Most of a game should be spent on end game. I believe levels 1 through 39 are kinda useless. I know a lot of people who just try to rush through all those levels because the game doesn't begin until you reach level 40.
So, Warhammer is just a useless game, just because the combat and gameplay is just so boring. And yes, they did a good job on the quest system and all that stuff.
What exactly did Mythic spend so much time developing?
You know, this is a good question.
I can only imagine the lion's share of their time went into the PVE... which is a shame given how empty the PVE zones are in tier 4.
I think it's a shame the way a lot people view MMOs in general. Mythic spent their time on content for the 39 levels a lot of people seem not to care about. No MMO should be considered to start at max level. The developers pour most of their effort in to making this part of the game, and then a lot of the players try to rush through it as quickly as possible.
You are right this is a general problem... It almost makes you think a developer would have noticed this by now and poured some time into end game...
The issue is the moment you say "no mmo should..." you are talking in absolutes and then we're talking about forcing a type of gameplay on people because they don't play like you or I do.
From a development stand point how big of a problem is this (because it seems so common and I agree on that). How many subscribers are you losing because there is no end game..
Then again just on principle if its so common (again as it seems to be) why is the end game that is advertised never ready...
I dunno about anyone else here I didn't buy WAR to PvE. I didn't rush to any level and never logged in saying I will be level X before I logged out. I ran around from one fight to the next and ended up in a place that wasn't ready for me to be there.
That isn't my fault as a consumer... all I did was play the game...
Or maybe it is my fault that I no longer work in a certain industry.. have my own business and a lot of time on my hands. When I have a process running that is going to take 14 hours.. yes I happen to play MMO's for much of that time.
Then again I was never crying that much about end game as I saw enough issues that started at T1 but I definitely rushed into T1.. that much I agree with.
So ya short version this is a developmental priority, misuse of resources and lack of team leadership problem from start to finish. Or developers just haven't noticed how common this problem is as they are to busy rushing a project out the door with an entire advertised end game that isn't ready. (notice I didn't say missing advertised "features" I think an entire missing end game goes beyond the feature label or non working end game whatever term you want to use)
I think you guys should probably move on to a PVE game more your speed. Because if you are looking for a PVP game you cannot possibly consider this game boring. Just from reading your posts I am 100% certain these games will appeal to you. The rest of us will just stay here and continue to enjoy Warhammer. Good luck!
I`ve read most of the things you guys sayd first of all i`m one of defenders that has actualy defended city against order on Eltharion and I can say few words on that day I`m not talking about them taking Maaw and stuff like that you all know how fortresses are captured but the siege was nice and thrilling, 1-2hrs after start of the siege order jsut dissapeared all those that we could find we hawe slayed on the streets and near theyres breach point and some guild think <Inquisitors> gawe been barricaded them selvs into TOD in IC but owerall that xpirience is fun I agree that end game needs more stuff better loot from players etc. but imho i hawe more fun in this game than in any other MMO I hawe tried till this day there is so many things that you can do to make yours character unique which will fit yours paly style there is no perfect build ( you are a warrior ok you know in WOW you hawe to go arms or else you`ll suck in PVP) your succes in orvr ,sieges and scenarious depends of team play, nicely organized team can do allot more than some randoms and I think that this game is great cause of that, PQ`s are great every Pq turns out to be some sort of event for it self not to mention that they turn into mini skirmishes if order arrives.There is always someone to fight and imho beter than kill those for 1 item which will drop after 1000 kills and you`ve gained a lvl great every quest in warhammer got nice story and background I`m 36 with chosen currently and i cannot wait to get to 40 game WIll get beter with every patch it has improwed so i dont see a point why it will go down from next patch there are jsut people that like PVP and dont for those who love it these is agame for you for you that dont well ....there are lot of diferent options.
Borehammer, that's pretty funny and sadly pretty close to dead on.
Who knows, maybe Mythic's plan all along was to hype us up for Warhammer, then when we finally got in to play it, we would finally realize how superior DAoC's PvP was and it would send us all back to resub to DAoC again.
I quit at lvl 20 or so, as it got incredibly boring to level up and a chore to even log on ...
Yep, thats about the threshold where most people find the game boring. Just doing PvP in Scenarios and pointless O-RvR just doesnt cut it.
I have rerolled innumerous alts, not because I cant stick to a character, but rather because the game gets boring and repetetive at T3 and on. Mythic need to stop threating this game as a themepark experience and give us a more hardcore war experience. For the first two tiers it is fun doing PvP in scenarios and an occasional raid keep (which are all the same) but after that it needs to step up another gear. It does not and thats where it fails for most people it seems.
Warhammer started with many bugs but now game is clear. This game is not static and devs. are working hard. This is the best RVR game out on the markets (for me). They are listening every customer and they are not pushing you to roll a specific class like wow did (lock) .
This is my 4 th mmo and i can say openheartly this game is for pvpers . I admit it, i didnt like the city siege as i thought i would. But impressing work that Mythic shows that this game has the best support and evolving fast.
A few weeks before the city siege we weren't able to siege a fortress without a server crash now it is stabil.
Besides, i don't want to tell you that, WAR is for everyone . But it is not borehammer thats a huge mistake which is an exaggerated title for this decent game.
It is just a childish approach to discredit a game without showing any proof . there are many other mmos for different tastes , i am sure such a whiner can find a better mmo which fits to his/her kinda playing taste, since there are considerable thousands who likes this game, and waiting for more players to join them...
Comments
Do these people sound like they have no idea what they are talking about and are just "trolling" around?
This is why. If you don't get aboard the gear treadmill like everyone else and get the proper gear to fight things in this oRvR stage, you won't be able to kill anything or anyone at Level40 with crap gear. Gear is not some "happy side effect" to doing oRvR. It's HOW you do oRvR in T4. You'll keep people who are geared and can actually help out without it, and you'll get lots of hate mail your way telling you to get out of the area "noob".
You said earlier you didn't understand what all the hubbub was about T4. Now you know.
"TO MICHAEL!"
So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
I have about 8 different chracters and just ORVR or do scenarios. Its awesome and my highest ranked toon is only 28 !. I don't even care, I just have fun leveling toons at any tier. Plus there is no grind !!! Its so casual and enjoyable to play, I can't even consider going back to LOTRO or WOW clone.
Quests, kill 100 of this , deliver this bread, fix 7 pick axes for dwarves ?? LOL, you can have it. The days of static MMO"s are dead to me. I'm sick of AI and a boring raid boss I can kill by looking up the strat somewhere or figure it out in a week. Look at endgame in LOTRO now, all my old kinmates are doing is killing the Watcher over and over for get everyone equipped in the hopes Turbine releases a new 24 man raid someday. LOL, what a joike.
In PVP, you have no idea how many destro are out there, whether there is someone following u, hiding behind a bush or pelting u from above in a keep. So much strategy involved. Try and take a keep, no good, move to a BO, bring them out and then fight on the open field. There is a zerg, 2 v 2, 2 v 1, all kinds of matchups. Its not one large mass fighting in sync,, I can assure u of that.
Love the game ! If you don't like it, then I guess this isnt your type of game. Go back to LOTRO or WOW and kill those static mobs, over and over and over. Get to max level as soon as u can !!! Hurry up !!! lol.
I can play a rank 4 or 28 toon and have just as much fun in this game. Honestly, I don't even have to get to tier 4 or any endgame content. The PVP is continous content every night Never the same fight twice.
Don't listen to any of the negative posts here, just try the game for yourself. If you don't like the style, then move on. Simple as that.
1.1.1 introduces "Subliminal Zone Control", sort of, where if you actually hold all of the BOs and Keeps then you can lock the zone, not determined only by spamming Scenarios or doing PQs anymore to tip that scale. Though until they really make Zone Control and actual player kills more valuable, I'm not sure how much that'll help. It's in addition to the existing Control system, not a replacement of it though.
There's only been a few Fort crashes on Dark Crag I believe, we just stormed two on Azazel and went like butter...new arguments please.
Boring endgame? Well, that's a matter of opinion. If you don't play sports I don't imagine you can understand how nice it is to "win" after fighting for so long, so, if you only play for the uber gearz, that's fine. You're going to get bored.
Thats just it, this is not supposed to be "sports", it is supposed to be a WAR (as they claim) but the endgame is rather about winning the game and then reset to zero. Pointless and stupid.
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Well said, my thoughts exactly. I play the game the same way u do.
I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
Actually this is a point we disagree on. We agree that the game is fun but I think the end game should be about the war. And war is about controlling resources and defeating your enemy, sometimes final. But since this is an MMORPG then defeat cannot be final. However when you control a zone it should be much more rewarding for the winner and much more penalizing for the loser. If it was then the winner would care to defend it and the loser would fight, hard, to regain it.
Only then will you get a sense of a war going on because controlling zones is VITAL. Right now zones are flipped back and forth, sometimes several times in an hour. Im sorry but that is not a war, thats a volleyball game, and hence why most people find this games end game boring and pointless.
In WAR there is no victory, only flipping zones back and forth, with the possible reward to raid the opponents city. Then it will reset, not because the other side shaves up and take it back but rather because there is little point in holding it and the mechanics as such makes it very dificult to do so. Shouldnt be that way.
If you raid the opponents city then it should first be VERY rewarding, both to take over and to keep control, and taking it back should be because the losing sides PvP effort. Not because game mechanics making it virtually impossible to hold it for a longer while. Again, that is a sports game and not a war...
EDIT: My guess as to why Mythic doesnt do in that way is because that would scare away the casual type of MMORPG players (read WoW type players). However what they dont realise is that WoW type people play.... WoW. So this game trying to cater to WoW players by making everything easy and casual is a failed strategy which will in the end just alienate people who want to play an MMORPG where an actual war is raging and not a theme park.
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I agree, I have no clue what these guys want. Its a PVP based game. What do u consider endgame? Everyone dies and Warhammer Online no longer exists? Endgame for me is when I go to bed. Then the next day i'm back in the action.
Actually this is a point we disagree on. We agree that the game is fun but I think the end game should be about the war. And war is about controlling resources and defeating your enemy, sometimes final. But since this is an MMORPG then defeat cannot be final. However when you control a zone it should be much more rewarding for the winner and much more penalizing for the loser. If it was then the winner would care to defend it and the loser would fight, hard, to regain it.
Only then will you get a sense of a war going on because controlling zones is VITAL. Right now zones are flipped back and forth, sometimes several times in an hour. Im sorry but that is not a war, thats a volleyball game, and hence why most people find this games end game boring and pointless.
In WAR there is no victory, only flipping zones back and forth, with the possible reward to raid the opponents city. Then it will reset, not because the other side shaves up and take it back but rather because there is little point in holding it and the mechanics as such makes it very dificult to do so. Shouldnt be that way.
If you raid the opponents city then it should first be VERY rewarding, both to take over and to keep control, and taking it back should be because the losing sides PvP effort. Not because game mechanics making it virtually impossible to hold it for a longer while. Again, that is a sports game and not a war...
I just dont think u grasp how difficult it is to make a PVP game vs PVE. Sure the endgame needs help, every MMO i've ever played needed better endgame. However, making great endgame is difficult enough, now your trying to do it in a PVP sense. Even harder. Just need to give the developers time to figure that out. If they don't, oh well. I'm still gonna play.
If I win a 1 v1 or we take a keep with destro defending., thats reward enough for me. Guess thats where we differ.
Yes it will be tough, never said it would be easy, however Mythic needs to realise that people have left this game in droves and need to analyze why. I think it is because people expected a war but got a volleyball game, this is indicated by alot of people who say that it was initially fun but got repetetive and end game was no fun. They say this because, I think, they expected for the war to unfold but it never did so they got dissapointed and left.
Others might point to standard reasons such as bugs, stability etc.
However I dont think Mythic has gone all wrong. They have made a PvP based MMORPG in a industry which is flooded with PvE centered games but they didnt push the envelope. If they do then I think this game could be revolutionary and set a new standard for future PvP based MMORPGs.
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So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
If you read this whole thread, you will see that people are complaining about the current RvR endgame, but they are also saying the first 30 levels were fun. So NO, the first few months aren't a tutorial. The game doesn't start at 40. It starts at level 1, and the ride to top level is, so far, the most fun I have had in any MMO. You might want to get to around level 5 before you head in to RvR, but that only takes about an hour. When you get there you'll see that plenty of people are doing RvR even in tier one. This game IS fun from the the get go.
You also don't need to be in a guild to play any part of the game. You can walk in to an area and join an open group, or start one of your own and watch it fill up as you play. If you have questions, you can ask them in region chat, or ask the people you group with. If you are the kind of guy who likes to solo... well, that is a viable option, but it isn't the way these games are designed to be played. You can't really complain that you need other people's help to play through some of the the content in a massive multiplayer game.
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So the first couple of months are like a tutorial or something?
I'm sorry, but if I'm paying a monthly fee to play this game, it should be entertaining from day one.
If you need to be rank 40 to start playing the "actual" game, then our characters should be 40 to begin with.
If you need to be in a guild to play the "actual" game, then new characters should automatically go into a rookie guild like the rookie corps in EVE. Then you have people to talk to and ask questions, and people to put a party together from the get go.
Unfortunately, even if they were to do these things I'd still find the game unbearably dull.
If you read this whole thread, you will see that people are complaining about the current RvR endgame, but they are also saying the first 30 levels were fun. So NO, the first few months aren't a tutorial. The game doesn't start at 40. It starts at level 1, and the ride to top level is, so far, the most fun I have had in any MMO. You might want to get to around level 5 before you head in to RvR, but that only takes about an hour. When you get there you'll see that plenty of people are doing RvR even in tier one. This game IS fun from the the get go.
You also don't need to be in a guild to play any part of the game. You can walk in to an area and join an open group, or start one of your own and watch it fill up as you play. If you have questions, you can ask them in region chat, or ask the people you group with. If you are the kind of guy who likes to solo... well, that is a viable option, but it isn't the way these games are designed to be played. You can't really complain that you need other people's help to play through some of the the content in a massive multiplayer game.
I suggest you do not do O-RvR at lower levels. Most of the times are spent running around looking for the enemy and once you find it its all about the numbers.
Rather join scenarios if you want fun and balanced PvP. It is intense and has the best xp/time in the game. Also there is no PvE in scenario, what so ever.
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You know, this is a good question.
I can only imagine the lion's share of their time went into the PVE... which is a shame given how empty the PVE zones are in tier 4.
Well, the game is not bad at all in the first three tiers.
Tier 4 it starts to go downhill, and level 40 it gets dull pretty fast.
Plus, once you have done one keep you've done them all, which seems a shame.
You know, this is a good question.
I can only imagine the lion's share of their time went into the PVE... which is a shame given how empty the PVE zones are in tier 4.
I think it's a shame the way a lot people view MMOs in general. Mythic spent their time on content for the 39 levels a lot of people seem not to care about. No MMO should be considered to start at max level. The developers pour most of their effort in to making this part of the game, and then a lot of the players try to rush through it as quickly as possible.
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Most of a game should be spent on end game. I believe levels 1 through 39 are kinda useless. I know a lot of people who just try to rush through all those levels because the game doesn't begin until you reach level 40.
So, Warhammer is just a useless game, just because the combat and gameplay is just so boring. And yes, they did a good job on the quest system and all that stuff.
You know, this is a good question.
I can only imagine the lion's share of their time went into the PVE... which is a shame given how empty the PVE zones are in tier 4.
I think it's a shame the way a lot people view MMOs in general. Mythic spent their time on content for the 39 levels a lot of people seem not to care about. No MMO should be considered to start at max level. The developers pour most of their effort in to making this part of the game, and then a lot of the players try to rush through it as quickly as possible.
You are right this is a general problem... It almost makes you think a developer would have noticed this by now and poured some time into end game...
The issue is the moment you say "no mmo should..." you are talking in absolutes and then we're talking about forcing a type of gameplay on people because they don't play like you or I do.
From a development stand point how big of a problem is this (because it seems so common and I agree on that). How many subscribers are you losing because there is no end game..
Then again just on principle if its so common (again as it seems to be) why is the end game that is advertised never ready...
I dunno about anyone else here I didn't buy WAR to PvE. I didn't rush to any level and never logged in saying I will be level X before I logged out. I ran around from one fight to the next and ended up in a place that wasn't ready for me to be there.
That isn't my fault as a consumer... all I did was play the game...
Or maybe it is my fault that I no longer work in a certain industry.. have my own business and a lot of time on my hands. When I have a process running that is going to take 14 hours.. yes I happen to play MMO's for much of that time.
Then again I was never crying that much about end game as I saw enough issues that started at T1 but I definitely rushed into T1.. that much I agree with.
So ya short version this is a developmental priority, misuse of resources and lack of team leadership problem from start to finish. Or developers just haven't noticed how common this problem is as they are to busy rushing a project out the door with an entire advertised end game that isn't ready. (notice I didn't say missing advertised "features" I think an entire missing end game goes beyond the feature label or non working end game whatever term you want to use)
I think you guys should probably move on to a PVE game more your speed. Because if you are looking for a PVP game you cannot possibly consider this game boring. Just from reading your posts I am 100% certain these games will appeal to you. The rest of us will just stay here and continue to enjoy Warhammer. Good luck!
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I`ve read most of the things you guys sayd first of all i`m one of defenders that has actualy defended city against order on Eltharion and I can say few words on that day I`m not talking about them taking Maaw and stuff like that you all know how fortresses are captured but the siege was nice and thrilling, 1-2hrs after start of the siege order jsut dissapeared all those that we could find we hawe slayed on the streets and near theyres breach point and some guild think <Inquisitors> gawe been barricaded them selvs into TOD in IC but owerall that xpirience is fun I agree that end game needs more stuff better loot from players etc. but imho i hawe more fun in this game than in any other MMO I hawe tried till this day there is so many things that you can do to make yours character unique which will fit yours paly style there is no perfect build ( you are a warrior ok you know in WOW you hawe to go arms or else you`ll suck in PVP) your succes in orvr ,sieges and scenarious depends of team play, nicely organized team can do allot more than some randoms and I think that this game is great cause of that, PQ`s are great every Pq turns out to be some sort of event for it self not to mention that they turn into mini skirmishes if order arrives.There is always someone to fight and imho beter than kill those for 1 item which will drop after 1000 kills and you`ve gained a lvl great every quest in warhammer got nice story and background I`m 36 with chosen currently and i cannot wait to get to 40 game WIll get beter with every patch it has improwed so i dont see a point why it will go down from next patch there are jsut people that like PVP and dont for those who love it these is agame for you for you that dont well ....there are lot of diferent options.
Borehammer, that's pretty funny and sadly pretty close to dead on.
Who knows, maybe Mythic's plan all along was to hype us up for Warhammer, then when we finally got in to play it, we would finally realize how superior DAoC's PvP was and it would send us all back to resub to DAoC again.
I quit at lvl 20 or so, as it got incredibly boring to level up and a chore to even log on ...
I quit at lvl 20 or so, as it got incredibly boring to level up and a chore to even log on ...
Yep, thats about the threshold where most people find the game boring. Just doing PvP in Scenarios and pointless O-RvR just doesnt cut it.
I have rerolled innumerous alts, not because I cant stick to a character, but rather because the game gets boring and repetetive at T3 and on. Mythic need to stop threating this game as a themepark experience and give us a more hardcore war experience. For the first two tiers it is fun doing PvP in scenarios and an occasional raid keep (which are all the same) but after that it needs to step up another gear. It does not and thats where it fails for most people it seems.
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Warhammer started with many bugs but now game is clear. This game is not static and devs. are working hard. This is the best RVR game out on the markets (for me). They are listening every customer and they are not pushing you to roll a specific class like wow did (lock) .
This is my 4 th mmo and i can say openheartly this game is for pvpers . I admit it, i didnt like the city siege as i thought i would. But impressing work that Mythic shows that this game has the best support and evolving fast.
A few weeks before the city siege we weren't able to siege a fortress without a server crash now it is stabil.
Besides, i don't want to tell you that, WAR is for everyone . But it is not borehammer thats a huge mistake which is an exaggerated title for this decent game.
It is just a childish approach to discredit a game without showing any proof . there are many other mmos for different tastes , i am sure such a whiner can find a better mmo which fits to his/her kinda playing taste, since there are considerable thousands who likes this game, and waiting for more players to join them...
I thinks war will do just fine as a niche game for those 175-200K's that are left.......
Guys, just keep reminding yourselves how much you hate AoC and you should be able to enjoy BoreHammer for a little longer.
That's the spirit!
"Play Warhammer! It sucks much LESS than AoC!" That's probably not a very good sales pitch.
"TO MICHAEL!"
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